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- [00:01]
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- [00:32]
Ben Wallace
Campsite Media.
- [00:41]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
Hello infamous listeners. Thanks so much for being back this week and listening to our show, the Campside and Sony Music Production. We are here this week without Natalie, but we do have Ben Wallace, an old colleague of mine from New York magazine. He did a story about Terry Richardson that was pretty famous. The guy from the American Apparel photographer sleazebag. He also wrote a book called the Billionaire's Vinegar, which is a great rare wine mystery tale. And he is out now with something that is extremely of the moment, which is a book about the guy or guys or girls. We don't actually know who invented bitcoin. The mysterious Mr. Nakamoto. So thank you for being here, Ben Wallace.
- [01:28]
Ben Wallace
Great to be here. Thanks for having me.
- [01:30]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
I do not think of you as a tech guy, but you have this book out now which is about the invention of bitcoin and who actually did it. And it's an anonymous person. It's like Guy Fawkes. Like nobody knows who this person is, which is insane.
- [01:43]
Ben Wallace
Exactly. And when sometimes when people are writing about Nakamoto and they want to depict him, they actually use the Guy Fawkes mask.
- [01:50]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
So tell me how this all started. Sure. Because I mean you are like good at computers or. Tell me.
- [01:56]
Ben Wallace
Not even. Not even. I was a sort of Luddite, English major, really late adopter in general. Like, I was very skeptical of the Internet for much of the 90s and was like, why is everyone making such a big deal about it? So it was somewhat random that I got this assignment. And in 2011, an editor at Wired asked me if I'd like to write about this thing called bitcoin, which had just been making the news because of its association with Silk Road, which was this black marketplace on the dark web. It was the first thing like that of its kind. And I had never heard of bitcoin. I'd never heard of Silk Road. What really hooked me on it besides the fact that bitcoin sounded really kind of mind bendingly interesting in being this money, unlike any other money that existed up to that point. But also there was this mystery about who had invented it. I don't know, it's just very unusual for someone to invent something that was already getting a lot of attention but who had taken no credit for it.
- [02:54]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
I do have a friend who said, I'm going to start this meme coin, we're all going to get rich. And she, she did have me also buy $100 of it, but then she got bored of it. But that's like as far as I go with crypto. What is crypto exactly? Gyosum is a synonym for bitcoin. They're both the same thing.
- [03:14]
Ben Wallace
It's a less easy question to answer than you might think. And there's a reason why I think people are somewhat intimidated by the subject. I mean, very basically it's a digital currency, right? So it's a kind of computer money. But it's unlike most money. It's not minted by a government or a central bank, its supply is not controlled by a government or a central bank, and it exists only digitally. And it's controlled by a crowd, by a peer to peer network of volunteers. I mean, anyone can join the bitcoin network and be a part of this.
- [03:46]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
Process, but it doesn't, it's not tethered to anything. It's not tethered to like the US dollar. It has no real value. But I guess you could say nothing has value.
- [03:56]
Ben Wallace
Well, exactly. That's why I found it really mind bending, because it gets you into the philosophy of like, what is money? What gives something value? And when I was working on this book, my father in law said to me, well, why is bitcoin worth anything? And I said, why is gold worth anything? And he said, why does everyone answer this question with another question? But I actually think the gold comparison is relevant both because bitcoin now kind of is more of a digital gold than a money people use for practical purposes, but also because like gold, it's valuable, because people have decided that it's valuable.
- [04:32]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
Did you have any of it?
- [04:33]
Ben Wallace
This is my sad bitcoin story. So when I started writing about it in 2011, I thought, you know, just to get my head around it, I needed to buy some bitcoin. So I bought $200 of it. Which just even buying it at the time was an extremely laborious process. Coinbase didn't exist, I don't think. And I had to wire money from a bank to some really obscure like money transmitter, et cetera. And so it took me over a week to get this bitcoin, I then spent. At the time, bitcoin, I think, was $17 a coin. So I got, like, 12 coins for my $200. I spent five of them on going to a conference about bitcoin, the world's first bitcoin conference in Manhattan in 2011. And then the rest of it, I socked away in what I was told at the time was the one really solid, reputable exchange, and it was called Mount Gox. Three years later, Mount Gox implodes in a fireball of hacks and bankruptcy and scandal, and there go my seven bitcoins, which today would be worth close to $700,000.
- [05:28]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
Oh, my God. So, wait, there's no way for you to get that back?
- [05:33]
Ben Wallace
No. I mean, there actually was a bankruptcy process, but I kind of just didn't pay attention to it and didn't. By the various deadlines, I didn't sign up to be a proper creditor. But also, the other thing is, it's based on what the coins were worth at the time of the implosion. So it's not like I would have gotten $700,000. I would have gotten whatever it was, like, a couple thousand dollars.
- [05:55]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
So, okay, so you then decide that you're going to be on the hunt for the guy who's started all of this. Like, why? Why do we need to know who this guy is? Is there a reason we need to know?
- [06:05]
Ben Wallace
That's a controversial question. I mean, certainly, if you ask a lot of people in the bitcoin world, they would say no. They would say the whole point of bitcoin is that it doesn't have a leader, and so it's irrelevant who founded it. And additionally, whoever created it doesn't control it, so they're not necessarily relevant. The argument on the other side is, number one, Satoshi Nakamoto is believed to have mined at least 1.1 million coins, which would be worth, like, $110 billion today, which makes him in the top 20 richest people in the world. And if bitcoin does continue to go up, he could very easily become the richest person in the world. So, number one, that's newsworthy. Who is the richest person in the world? We've certainly recently seen how much influence the richest person in the world can have in society. I think it's of historic interest. Like, if I had a chance to find out who invented the wheel, I think that would be newsworthy. And I also think until it's known who Satoshi Nakamoto was and what their Motivations were. I think we need to know that because let's say, for instance, it turned out that bitcoin was invented by the Chinese Communist Party to destabilize the US dollar. We should know that.
- [07:11]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
Right. And so what are like the first steps that you do to try to find this guy?
- [07:16]
Ben Wallace
I mean, the first steps which I took and failed to find him back in 2011, was just calling around like it wasn't. The shape and dimensions of the mystery were not yet apparent. I thought, how hard is this going to be? Right? I'm just going to use a typical reporting process. If I interview enough people, someone knows, someone knows, someone who knows, eventually the truth will bubble up. And it turned out to not be the case. It was very different from most mysteries. Nobody seemed to actually know who it was. So he. After my initial failure in 2011, other people tried to solve this mystery. So the New Yorker had a candidate they named. The New York Times had a candidate they named Wired in a different article. And this thing kept going on and on and these new candidates kept being proposed, but every time there was some reason they got debunked. I mean, Newsweek famously had a candidate they thought might be Satoshi Nakamoto. And there was a press swarm that mobbed this poor guy's house in, in Temple City, California. The guy was like living with his mother. He had had to turn off the Internet because he was so broke, which doesn't sound like somebody who owns 1.1 million bitcoin. But he happened to have been born with the name Dorian Prentice. Satoshi Nakamoto. And so this Newsweek reporter thinks like, oh, everyone else is looking for thinks it's a pseudonym. Like I think that's his real name. And so Newsweek publishes a giant cover story. There's a press mob descends on this guy. There's like a low speed white Bronco style chase on the freeways of Los Angeles.
- [08:48]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
And wait, wait, explain what he looks like because he's just like some middle aged nerd.
- [08:52]
Ben Wallace
Yeah, just kind of like a late middle age, kind of schlumpy, unemployed engineer who lived with his mom.
- [09:01]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
And so what happens in the chase?
- [09:04]
Ben Wallace
The guy. So the press, they're on his lawn. I mean, there's like international press, like TV cameras, everything. It's like a stakeout. And this one reporter, Ryan Nakashima from the ap shows up and Dorian Nakamoto emerges from his house and says something like, I'm just here for the free lunch or something, or who's gonna get me lunch? And for some reason no one says anything except Ryan. And Ryan's like, I'll get you lunch. So Dorian Nakamoto says, I'm going with this guy. So they get into Ryan's powder blue Prius and start making their way to a sushi place because Dorian said he wanted sushi. And all the other reporters start following him in their cars, and they're like, live tweeting, like, bitcoin chase. Satoshi and Ryan and this guy Dorian get to a sushi place in Arcadia. They end up having to leave. They go to the AP offices where Ryan debriefs him. And both in the car, before they got to the AP offices and in the AP office, it became very clear that Dorian Nakamoto was not satoshi and really barely knew what bitcoin was.
- [10:08]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
Okay? And so everybody's like, my bad.
- [10:12]
Ben Wallace
Well, no, I mean, everyone was like, newsweek's bad. Because Newsweek. Newsweek continued to maintain that, like, you know, this was satoshi. And, like, obviously other reporters are jealous and, you know, like, historic scoops like this are typically debated at first and things like that. And it was. It was just ludicrous and just. It was really a debacle for newspaper foreign.
- [10:40]
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- [11:47]
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- [12:50]
Campside Media
This is Infamous from Campside Media.
- [12:54]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
From there, you say that the drive to decipher Satoshi brought this car chase, right? This is the car chase. A bounty, a $75 billion fortune. I assume that's what he actually or they or she has from bitcoin themselves. But there's been extortion, attempts to try to find him, death threats. A SWAT team was called in. A fugitive arms dealer got involved, a forger got involved. Like, it's just basically this huge group of people worldwide who are like, who is this guy?
- [13:29]
Ben Wallace
It became like a white whale for tech journalists, certainly, and maybe journalists more broadly. And I mean, one of the one, just as an aside, I mean, bitcoin is so volatile that at the time I was writing that, I said it was a $75 billion fortune, but now it's $110 billion because Bitcoin has gone.
- [13:45]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
Up so much just since I wrote that.
- [13:47]
Ben Wallace
Yes, Satoshi disappeared in 2011. I mean, that was the last time he communicated under that pseudonym. Or she or they. As you say, I use he for convenience. But the reality is we have no idea whether it's a he or a she or they. So he disappears in 2011, and from then on, like, almost every year or even more frequently, someone has a new person they think is Satoshi Nakamoto. And some of those become more prominent than others. I mean, one of the most prominent was the Newsweek fiasco. But the next really big one came in 2015 when a bunch of journalists received an email just unsolicited, basically leaking that the true identity of Satoshi was an Australian computer scientist named Craig Wright. I received the same email, but at the time, I looked at the email and there were a bunch of attachments, and I didn't even open them because, first of all, the subject header said not virus scan. So it just seemed like it might be malware. But I also was a little kind of turned off of the scene at that moment, partly because of my lost Bitcoins. And partly because of just all these false candidates one after another. So I just thought, oh, this is the latest one. But some other journalists really dug into this particular candidate. And Wired and Gizmodo almost simultaneously published scoops that Satoshi Nakamoto has been found as this guy Craig Wright. And then within 24 hours, these scoops begin to fall apart as the Internet punches holes in the evidence.
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Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
Okay, so what happens next?
- [15:16]
Ben Wallace
This pattern continues of like one satoshi after another. And then in 2021, at the end of it was around Christmas, I got another one of these emails. I would get emails every few years from someone either claiming to be Satoshi or claiming they knew who Satoshi was, just because of the fact that I'd been one of the early reporters covering it. And I'm sure a bunch of other reporters like that also received these emails. And in 2021, I get one from a guy who had worked at Tesla, and he was insistent that Elon Musk must be Satoshi.
- [15:48]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
I mean, he is, you know, intent on world domination. And having your own currency is part of doing that.
- [15:56]
Ben Wallace
You're going to need to buy things on Mars, right?
- [15:58]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
You need to buy things on Mars. So tell me the case for that.
- [16:01]
Ben Wallace
The case that this guy, whose name is Sahil Gupta, made was first of all, I mean, Elon Musk obviously was this incredibly brilliant polymath, and he'd already successfully done a number of different and remarkable things, right? I mean, whether it's SpaceX, whether it's essentially creating an E car industry. In his spare time, he'd invented a high speed transportation system called the Hyperloop. So, I mean, it's not out of the question that the guy had the chops, right? And he had previously worked at PayPal. I mean, his company had been bought by PayPal, so he was interested in digital payments from going way back. And then there were more sort of minute similarities between the writing and coding styles of Elon Musk and Satoshi Nakamoto. But I thought it was a pretty weak case. And I thought there just wasn't much evidence that Elon was likely to be Satoshi Nakamoto.
- [16:57]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
Okay, so who's the next one up?
- [16:58]
Ben Wallace
So that happens in 2021. And that's when I really got back into the story and back on this case of who could Satoshi be? And how is it possible that we're now Bitcoin? This pseudonymous person first announced bitcoin in late 2008 and first launched the software in early 2009. So now we're in 20, 22, 13 years later, and how is it possible that no one knows who the guy is still? And this is when bitcoin is now really going mainstream for the first time and hitting new price heights. And there's like an NFT craze happening. There's like a defi craze happening. Bitcoin was the first cryptocurrency, but by now there are thousands of cryptocurrencies. Because once this technology has been invented, anyone can basically release their own version of it, right? And I thought that combination of this epic mystery that there have been all these attempts to solve, combined with crypto's increasing mainstream relevance, meant that like, there needs to be a book that normies can read to understand this important but very hard to grasp thing. I thought there was something that I could do with a book that I hadn't been able to do and maybe couldn't do with a magazine story. I also, by this point, having been thinking about it for quite a long time, I had some specific ideas of approaches I could take that had not been taken, that at a minimum might produce new candidates and shed new light on, on this mystery. The main elements of this satoshi mystery are why did this person or people use a pseudonym, why did they disappear and why have they not touched the fortune? Right? Because you can see on the bitcoin blockchain, these coins have never been moved from the wallets they're in.
- [18:46]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
What if he's dead?
- [18:47]
Ben Wallace
That's a very real possibility because that would explain why the fortune has never been touched. And in fact, that's one of the main interpretations of the fact that the fortune, fortune has not been touched is he must be dead. I mean, another interpretation is satoshi is this, you know, quasi religious figure who's so selfless that it's more important that the project have credibility than that he personally enrich himself.
- [19:11]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
Maybe it's just somebody misplaced it.
- [19:13]
Ben Wallace
Yeah, yeah. If you lose your keys, which are basically really the equivalent of a password, and that is another, that is another theory. And it's not an unrealistic theory like there. I talk to a lot of very smart, experienced software people and even cryptographers who say it's just not that hard to lose your keys, that easily could have happened. And several of these people said it could have happened. To me, there have been multiple cases of people losing their keys or accidentally throwing out a hard drive that had crazy amounts of bitcoin on them. There's a guy in Wales Famously, who's been trying to get the place where he lives to let him dig in the landfill for I think seven or eight years now, maybe even 10 years maybe. I think he's suing them now just to get permission to excavate this landfill because he wants to find his lost hard drive.
- [20:07]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
Oh, my God, that's insane. That's really funny. I mean, I think I've lost a couple hard drives along the way. I'd like to look in there for two. So, okay, so basically we now understand what Bitcoin is. An NFT I know, is a digital piece of art that people buy and trade. Now there's this new thing called the Meme Coin. And the Meme Coin is just like you're a person who has fame and you tell your followers like, hey, buy my coin. And it seems to be more of a scam, right, than Bitcoin. Bitcoin feels like 100%. Trump is even talking about making a national mint now for bitcoin, right? The idea that like the United States would put in a couple billion dollars into bitcoin and make the prices go up really high. And I'm sure he owns some of.
- [20:58]
Ben Wallace
It, but a strategic Bitcoin stockpile. Yeah, exactly.
- [21:01]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
Strategic bitcoins, like the petroleum reserve. But tell me more about the Meme Coin.
- [21:06]
Ben Wallace
So, I mean, much like sort of meme stocks, if you remember Gamestop, you know, these are things you can invest in that have a price that is not based on their intrinsic value. They're based on just people deciding to pile into them as an investment, either for shits and giggles or because they hope to get rich off it. And some people do get rich off it, but most people lose money on these things. And so anyone, it's very easy now for anyone to basically create their own Meme coin. You could create Vanessa Coin tomorrow you could go on Twitter and say, hey, everyone, like, you know, come buy Vanessa Coin. And. And then if enough people did and the price kept going up, you might be sitting on a pile of money.
- [21:48]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
That's what my friend did. But then she got bored of it because she said in order to get on the exchange, you have to get a bunch of people from different IP addresses to buy into it. And she, I think, realized that was a bit harder than she probably has.
- [22:00]
Ben Wallace
To seem like slight to have some legitimacy or at least some buy in by people other than the one person who created it. I mean, the most famous Meme coin is Dogecoin, right? Which was just this random coin that again, the way Gamestop did with stocks. Somehow it got the attention of the Internet. Somehow people decided, like, dogecoin, I'm gonna buy dogecoin. It's fun, it's cool. Or it's, I'm gonna make money on it. And they did. And then somehow at some point it came to the attention of Elon Musk and he got on the bandwagon and he started promoting dogecoin. And you know, it's no accident that he has named the Department of Government Efficiency Doge. So yeah, that's a meme coin for you.
- [22:42]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
Caitlyn Jenner had one. Basically, anybody who has like a little bit of clout can sort of do it.
- [22:47]
Ben Wallace
Anyone can do it. Anyone could do it. I mean, the reason I don't even know is because I don't pay any attention to them because I never would invest in a meme coin. I never have invested in a meme coin. And there's so many of them that, that I wouldn't even begin to know how to sift through them to find one that might be interesting.
- [23:04]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
Right. And I mean the scandal that happened was with the Hawktua girl, right?
- [23:08]
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The girl who went viral for her.
- [23:09]
Ben Wallace
Right? Exactly. Yeah.
- [23:10]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
And people put millions of dollars into trading this meme coin and then, you know, the original people who bought it pulled out and everybody was left with nothing in the.
- [23:34]
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- [24:04]
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Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
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- [24:37]
Campside Media
This is infamous from Campside Media.
- [24:40]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
There's Just something about all of this that feels like it's washing money, it's irresponsible gambling. It's like the world's worst people, the gang leaders or whoever who need to move money from place to place. Like, do you think that's fair or do you think that digital currency is just the world's new currency? We all have to get used to it?
- [25:02]
Ben Wallace
Well, I think you have to make distinctions. I mean, I can tell you that people who are really into bitcoin hate meme coins. They hate it for all the reasons that you just mentioned. I mean, it gives bitcoin a terrible name that bitcoin does not, I would say, deserve. It actually has become, again, a sort of digital gold, a store of value. Like it has major Wall street people who have a lot of money in it. Right. You can now, as a Fidelity customer, buy a Bitcoin etf. Buy into a bitcoin. Bitcoin etf. So bitcoin of all of them, and there's a handful of others, but there are a handful that really have a lot of serious, sincerely intentioned people involved with them, building things on them or with them. And I really think you have to separate those out from the vast majority of cryptocurrencies, which are complete scams, which are just like a casino and certainly can be used for money washing. And for that matter, look, I mean, people can use the legitimate cryptocurrencies for money washing also. I mean, it's not necessarily as easy as it sounds in that the blockchain is transparent, it is visible. There are blockchain forensics companies now that can are pretty good at like tracing the origins of a transaction. But on the other hand, there are these online kind of money laundries, coin mixers that, you know, can sort of take bitcoin in and spit them out and, and try to cut the money trail.
- [26:25]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
I mean, we've always had speculation bubbles, right? Like the Tulip Bubble, you know, in Holland in the 1600s and ancient Rome. And all these places are always had speculative bubbles. But there's something here, it feels so anti Internet to be so shadowy about it. You know, like every single person has a footprint on the Internet. Nobody is anonymous. And suddenly now where money's involved, you can be like sort of anonymous with this.
- [26:52]
Ben Wallace
Yeah. And I mean, and that's kind of baked into the ethos of it. I mean, a lot of the early adopters of bitcoin were libertarians or privacy people who wanted there to be a money that like cash cannot be Traced. And that certainly can be abused and is abused, but I don't think in principle is a bad idea. Right. I mean, we don't begrudge people using cash. The difference is that, unlike cash, bitcoin, you don't have to, like, stuff five suitcases full of dirty dollar bills to do a black market transaction. You can just instantly and almost invisibly send it around the world.
- [27:31]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
The other question is if America is just becoming a place where people do a lot of gambling, right? Like their online gambling, which is something that used to not be legal, is all over the place now. People also do quite a bit of bitcoin trading. People do sports betting in a way that they didn't before.
- [27:50]
Ben Wallace
Meme stock trading.
- [27:52]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
Yep, Meme stock trading. And if we're just like an addicted country, are we, like, addicted to gambling? And is this part of it?
- [27:59]
Ben Wallace
I mean, I think certainly a big piece of crypto is part of that, yes.
- [28:04]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
I mean, there's this sort of influencer culture that's very much about raising up the people who manage to get all of those clicks. And kids think, oh, okay, I can do that too. But in fact, we're gonna become like a nation of drop shippers. Because there's just not a lot of ways, I mean, particularly with encroaching AI to really, you know, live out that American dre. I mean, I don't know. I'm sure I speak for a lot of people when I say that right now. You know, there's a lot of fear of AI coursing through my veins. There's a lot of fear of the tech bros taking over, and these guys will control not only the government, but they'll control our currency. I mean, do you feel that way?
- [28:51]
Ben Wallace
I mean, the way I think about this in terms of bitcoin and crypto is, you know, it's a technology, and like any technology, it can be used for good or bad. I do shy away from the idea that because it is abused, as it widely is, that it is not also valuable. Right. People are going to do what they do with technology. And obviously, the Internet has sort of supercharged the ability to do this, not just in this area, but in all the other gambling areas you mentioned.
- [29:20]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
So do you feel there's a bright future for us?
- [29:23]
Ben Wallace
Wait, I'm now supposed to weigh in on, like, the future of the cosmos?
- [29:26]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
I mean, basically.
- [29:28]
Ben Wallace
I mean, I wrote a book about the satoshi mystery. I don't. I don't. You know, I mean, when I read the newspaper every day, there's certainly plenty of things to worry about. I don't think that crypto is part of the apocalypse.
- [29:44]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
Do you think everybody should buy some?
- [29:47]
Ben Wallace
I definitely don't think that. And I'll tell you one of the reasons why is because if you're going to invest in crypto, you have to be prepared to just not sleep very well because it is so volatile that you will find yourself constantly monitoring the price. And the price is often driven by things that you can't even figure out, like why is the price going up right now, why is it going down? And so it's just a recipe for like a very attention stealing investment in your life that I think most people don't want and I typically don't want.
- [30:19]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
Yeah. And we already have our phones for that. So thank you so much for coming on to tell us. Not necessarily how to get rich quick. Although if you can buy some bitcoin and sell it at the right moment, that might be a plan. Ben Wallace wrote this book that is called the mysterious Mr. Nakamoto about his search for the inventor of bitcoin. Thanks so much for being on with us, Ben.
- [30:42]
Ben Wallace
Thank you. That was fun.
- [30:43]
Host (possibly a name like 'Caitlin' or 'Catherine')
All right, thanks everybody. We will be back next week with a new story and thanks so much for listening.
- [31:03]
Campside Media
This episode is brought to you by Netflix. 132 rooms, 157 suspects. One dead body. One wildly eccentric detective. One disastrous state dinner. The Residence is a screwball whodunit series set among the eclectic staff of the world's most famous mansion, the White House from Shondaland. With an all star cast including Uzo Aduba as rye detective Cordelia Cup. Watch the residents now only on Netflix.