Interviewer (2:27)

Okay, so you're in New York. You're working at the New York Observer. Can you explain what that is?

Andrew Goldman (2:33)

It was a full of attitude newspaper that was run then by this incredibly charismatic editor named Peter Kaplan. Generally, the. The marching orders were to go out and make some noise and to be funny and to be snarky.

Interviewer (2:53)

So what were you writing about?

Andrew Goldman (2:54)

I was kind of doing features and stringing for their scene slash gossip column called the Transom.

Interviewer (3:00)

I do wanna just explicate this bizarre job that both and I seem to have had. Being sent into these parties with rich and famous people, not having to, like, stick out your tape recorder. And get like a second for. From Kim Kardashian actually having to put a gown on. Like, I had two gowns that I had to wear in order to go to the Rockefeller estate, you know.

Andrew Goldman (3:27)

How fancy of you to actually have your own gown. Because when I was at the observer, we had an observer tuxedo that was so stinky and smelly. But anybody who had to go to one of these events would wear this thing and you'd find, like, you know, a crudite in the pocket. It was like a communal, poorly fitting tuxedo. I went to a party that was a celebration of Kathy and Rick Hilton's anniversary, and there were no seats available for me except for one. The one seat available was between Imelda Marcos and Leona Helmsley. I just. I was so. I was like. Basically immediately had this flop sweat. I was like, I cannot sit between the two most famously mean people in America right now. Imelda Marcos, who was. Had been married to Ferdinand Marcos. He was one of these dictators from the Philippines who had basically robbed the Philippines of billions. And Imelda became very famous because she had a closet filled with thousands and thousands of pairs of designer shoes, like, you know, probably millions of dollars worth of shoes. So her closet became the big joke and her shoes became the big joke. And then, of course, Leona Helmsley. I think that Leona Helmsley might have been known as the Queen of Mean. She was a hotelier. When Leona Helmsley died, which was probably 15 years ago, she left all of her money to this ridiculous, like, lap dog trouble.

Interviewer (5:05)

It's the pampered pooch who managed a million dollars.

Podcast Host (5:10)

Yes.

Andrew Goldman (5:11)

Anyway, so there are a few stories that I can dine out on. One of them is the Harvey Weinstein story. Another one would have been My Dinner with the Queen of Mean and the Queen of Shoes.

Interviewer (5:22)

Okay, so tell me what happened.

Andrew Goldman (5:23)

So this was in the year 2000. I was frequently covering parties for the Transom. However, I had a younger colleague who I was actually dating at the time named Rebecca Traister, who was doing a film column. She was doing great work on these stories on independent film in New York. And at that moment, basically, the king of New York independent cinema was Harvey Weinstein. He'd created something that didn't exist before, which was a real bonafide studio in Tribeca, which was called Miramax. And he and his brother had built it from nothing and had had this string of Oscar winning hits like Shakespeare.

Vanessa Grigoriadis (6:03)

In Love, My Heart belongs to you.

Natalie (6:05)

But I will marry Wessex a Week.

Andrew Goldman (6:07)

From Saturday, Good Will Hunting, the most.

Narrator (6:09)

Gifted mind to ever enter its classro. Who did this is the person who cleans its floors.

Andrew Goldman (6:16)

Rebecca had been working on a story and had been trying to get either Bob or Harvey Weinstein or somebody within Miramax to speak to her for this story. And she was really.

Interviewer (6:25)

How would they not want to talk to her? It sounds totally promotional.

Andrew Goldman (6:29)

Well, because of the story that she was writing. It was a story that they did not want to have written. You know, Rebecca was trying to report a story about a movie called O. And I believe that there were some scenes of extreme violence, including a school shooting in the film. The filmmakers, like many filmmakers who worked with Miramax, were unhappy. I mean, Harvey was. His nickname was Harvey Scissorhands because he would personally go in and chop films up and re edit them. In the case of O, I believe the filmmakers were very upset because Harvey was actually sitting on it and not releasing it. And there was a very specific reason Harvey was not releasing it. Now, this was election season and this is going to blow your mind. Harvey, at that point was a huge fundraiser for the Democratic Party and he had been doing major Hollywood fundraisers for the Gore Lieberman campaign. So I don't know how delusional this was. I mean, there are people who, you know, get ambassador posts who are unqualified. But he, Harvey, at that moment, and I've heard from many people, legitimately felt like his work was going to make him ambassador to Israel. So.

Interviewer (7:41)

Oh, God, Okay.

Andrew Goldman (7:42)

Yeah. So he had been doing everything he could to flatter, to raise money for the ticket. And Joe Lieberman was somebody. One of his pet issues was violence in films. He felt like it was poisoning our children. What do you do with a troubled.

Interviewer (8:00)

Person before they become a killer?

Andrew Goldman (8:03)

What about the impact of violence in the entertainment culture? So Harvey Weinstein, the story goes, and you know, Rebecca had done a pretty good job of reporting it by that point. Harvey Weinstein was sitting on this film because he thought that it would offend Joe Lieberman, the release of this film, because it was a violent film. So Rebecca had for days, if not weeks, been trying to get somebody at Miramax to comment, some official comment as to why they were burying this film. And there was this invite that came for a party at the Tribeca Grand Hotel hosted by Harvey Weinstein. And so it allowed me to bring her to a party that otherwise, or why she wouldn't have been invited to. And she could actually go up to the man himself and ask him the.

Podcast Host (8:45)

Question, we're gonna Do a break and then we'll share what happened when Andrew got to Harvey Weinstein's party. Because this is the serious altercation that I referenced at the top of the episode.

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Narrator (10:05)

In the fall of 1987, two boaters discovered the body of Sabrina Kidd floating in the Colorado River.

Listener/Interjector (10:13)

Who would do this to this poor girl?

Narrator (10:15)

To some, Sabrina was just another young female victim from the Las Vegas strip. But to Lindo Marks, Sybrina's death would become a mission.

Vanessa Grigoriadis (10:25)

This woman tells me that her niece is missing. You are our last resort.

Narrator (10:32)

Linda would find herself in over her head.

Listener/Interjector (10:35)

I just thought it was too dangerous.

Vanessa Grigoriadis (10:37)

I could feel that it was going to have an impact on her for the rest of her life.

Narrator (10:43)

Through her persistence, the hunt for Sabrina's killer was blown wide open.

Interviewer (10:47)

He said she never came home. I go, that motherfucker's lying.

Andrew Goldman (10:50)

I was scared to death.

Vanessa Grigoriadis (10:52)

He realized that I was on twin.

Narrator (10:54)

From Sony Music Entertainment and Orbit Media, this is killer story coming February 1st to the Binge. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. You're listening to Infamous from Campside Media.

Podcast Host (11:13)

So now Rebecca and Andrew are at a party that Harvey Weinstein is throwing. It's actually a party for a book written by a woman who had overcome cancer. But this is where Rebecca is planning to buttonhole Harvey about shelving the movie O, which was a violent movie. And Harvey hadn't wanted to piss off Joe Lieberman because he thought if Al Gore and Joe Lieberman won the presidency, Harvey might be appointed ambassador to Israel.

Andrew Goldman (11:42)

I think we walked in right behind Harvey and I was like, this is great. So I remember going up to the bar and ordering a vodka on the rocks. And then I watched Rebecca go up and approach Harvey with her little tape recorder and put it up. And I see them going sort of talking, I see them talking, talking. And then at some point, it seemed to becoming more animated from his end. And then I remember distinctly saying him shouting to those around him, who let this fucking cunt into this party? Who let this fucking cunt into this party? And I just about dropped my drink and he was raving, this is a cancer party. This is a cancer party. And this is the shit that she's asking about. And so at that point I felt like maybe I had some obligation to intercede because.

Interviewer (12:40)

Because you were the guy who had let her into the party.

Natalie (12:42)

Yeah.

Andrew Goldman (12:44)

So it was obviously shocking to me because this was something that was happening in view of, I would say dozen or dozens of reporters were there. And this is basically, you know, the biggest figure in New York film and one of the biggest figures in film in the country, using the C word, about probably a 20, 21, 22 year old young woman who was just trying to do her job. So I stepped up to where they were and I think I said, harvey. And I introduced myself and I said, I invited her to this party. And then I tried to deescalate because he said, why aren't you fucking interviewing me about this party? And I said, okay. I took out my tape recorder and I said, all right, let's talk about this party. And so we start talking about the cancer party. And I guess. I guess it was just killing me that he'd made this scene and said that horrible thing to this person. And, you know, Rebecca at this point was, you know, standing back a bit while I was interviewing him about the inane details of the party. And. And I think I stopped the interview and I said, I just have to. I have to address this. That was really. That was unacceptable. How could. Why would you say something like that? Why would you do that? And then, and then I think he said, I'm gonna kick your fucking ass. And then he uttered the line, I'm glad I'm the fucking sheriff of this shit ass fucking town. What a. What a line, you know, as I would find out, there was some truth to that. But I looked down to see if my recorder is indeed going, because this is the money quote of all money quotes. So I looked down and I think he looked down and realized what he'd just done. And realized that he'd said something really, really stupid that might come back to haunt him. And at this point, he lunged from my tape recorder. And what happened then was this match between the two of us. And I remember, you know, as two, like, very kind of fat bears. Like, both of us. It's both hands up in the air. One has a tape recorder, and we're going back and forth. Both of our hands are grasping each other's. And he's trying to get this tape recorder. And I'm doing everything I can not to allow him to have my tape recorder. And as I. As I'll find out later, apparently, while we were going back and forth over the tape recorder, there were some people in the crowd, and one person apparently got hit by the tape recorder. I wasn't gonna let go of my tape recorder, and Harvey was intent on getting it.

Interviewer (15:22)

Oh, my God. I love what. I mean. So you. Why do you have to protect the tape recorder?

Podcast Host (15:29)

Let it go.

Andrew Goldman (15:30)

Well, first of all, it's my tape. It's my tape recorder. There's no right to take my tape recorder. Second of all, I. I really think that it is, like, a valuable quote to have at that point. Only at that point probably did I think, well, this might be the best story that I've ever come across. I happen to be in the middle of it, but, I mean, I've gotten the best quote ever. And I have an account of one of the most famous people in movieland physically assaulting a reporter. I happen to be the reporter, and in the story, but this is a pretty good story. So I'm not letting go of this tape recorder. And he's intent on getting the tape recorder. And what I remember. I don't remember exactly how it happened. He shifted from the tape recorder to my head, and he grabs me by the head and dragged me by the head out of the party. I know that I was in front of the Tribeca Grand Hotel, Harvey Weinstein holding me in a headlock.

Interviewer (16:24)

Just gripping you with this beefy, doughy leg.

Andrew Goldman (16:28)

This beefy. Yeah, with those sausage fingers and his beefy arm. And I seem to remember being unable to move, unable to free myself. I don't know what would have happened if I'd actually punched him. I think that if somebody has you in a headlock, you probably should make some sort of defensive maneuvers. I had no defensive maneuvers in my arsenal at that point. I was not a fighter. I did not soil myself, although I thought that. I think that Peter Biskind, the film writer. I think that when he wrote about it. Witnesses describe me as looking as though I were soiling myself. But I'd like to have it on record that I did not shit my pants, although I felt like I could have shit my pants. There are people surrounding. There is. You know, one of these people I knew was a photographer from one of the local tabloids, the Daily News. And I am in a headlock in front of the Tribeca Grand Hotel. And this man from the Daily News has probably shot 300 frames of me in a headlock. And one of the things I'm thinking as I'm like, oh, gosh, I am going to be on the COVID of a tabloid. I mean, who. Who could pass up this picture of Harvey Weinstein with this person in the headlock? This is going to be, you know, this is tabloid gold. And so one of the things that. One of the very, very, very absurd things I remember about this thing was that I. I seem to remember being in a headlock for a really kind of crazy period of time. So long that I was able from my pocket to fish out a card, which I handed to the Daily News photographer just so he could identify me.

Interviewer (18:01)

While you're in the headlock.

Andrew Goldman (18:03)

While I. Yes. It's unreal to even think about how that could have happened, but I think that there was some sort of stalemate where he had me in the headlock. I was unable to get out of it. This probably took all of 14 seconds, but it was very, very strange. So the Tribeca grand was a place that he, you know, he kept, I think, a suite where he would go and we would subsequently find out, do horrible things to young actresses. So he was well known at the Tribeca Grand Hotel. So we were separated, and that was the end of it. He had tried to mobilize the security. He said, get that tape recorder from him. And they, to their credit, refused to do it. And I thought it was probably best to leave. And then much of it's quite hazy except for, you know, us kind of like walking down the avenue after being like, what just happened?

Podcast Host (18:53)

Stick around to hear the rest of the story after the break.

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Narrator (19:35)

This is infamous from Campside Media.

Andrew Goldman (19:38)

I think we were somewhat traumatized. A little, you know, giddy as one would be when something so fucking bizarre happens. And it was something that I didn't fully comprehend at that time was that I witnessed what real power in New York was. Because there was no story, there was no photograph in the Daily News, the New York Post, any other New York tabloid. There was no immediate story from anywhere. And there were many Harvey friendly journalists. One in particular, who I think was working at Fox News at the time, who I think was trying to encourage Harvey to let me go. And I assumed that he would write about it. But he, like many other people in town, had entanglements with Harvey. Harvey was very good actually at offering deals, whether they were script writing deals or documentary production deals. He would throw money around to neutralize local press. And that's what he had done. Much of the press that was in, in the room that night had either already been neutralized or in the case of the photographer, I think that photographer probably, if I had to guess, is in his retirement spending money that he made from Harvey Weinstein to buy all those photos that night. None of those photos. I heard years later from somebody who actually worked with Harvey and within Miramax that there was a location within Miramax where these photos actually existed. And this person said that he or she had actually seen these photos and told me that I was probably glad that these photos didn't get out because they were kind of unflattering. And knowing what, knowing how it was a particular period of bloat that I had at that point got it.

Interviewer (21:30)

And then what did you decide to do?

Andrew Goldman (21:33)

What did I decide to do? Well, let's see, what did we decide to do? I decided to do nothing. And I assumed that it was going to be a story in the New York observer. Incorrectly. I don't know. Would you have assumed that you wouldn't have been able to write about it?

Interviewer (21:50)

No, I would have assumed that this was like my big break and maybe even been sort of excited, unfortunately.

Andrew Goldman (21:57)

Yeah, I mean, I think that there was probably some assumption that we would, you know, that she and I would do some sort of account of it in the paper. And, you know, Peter was the most charismatic editor I've ever worked for. I don't know what was behind his decision, but it wasn't advertising because New York observer was not filled with advertising. But I think Peter had, I think, probably respect for some of the major characters in New York and had. Probably was on first name basis with Harvey and probably thought from knowing me a little bit that maybe I'd done something to start a fight with him, which wasn't the case. I mean, I really, you know, I felt like I behaved honorably that night. I did not go into a party trying to start a fight with Harvey Weinstein. But for whatever reason, Peter decided that we weren't going to write about it.

Podcast Host (22:50)

Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a second.

Interviewer (22:51)

How is this not a story?

Andrew Goldman (22:53)

It's one of the great unanswered questions. I think that there was a certain respect conferred upon Harvey. Now, this is Harvey. We have to remember. This is. You know, we had heard rumors of Harvey's sexual behavior, but Harvey was on top of the world. Harvey was much respected as a mogul in the old style. Peter was somebody who really had this amazing understanding and great respect for the history of Hollywood. I think Peter thought that Harvey was like a Louis B. Mer style giant. And he was. I remember him saying, Harvey. Harvey is like. I think he said, harvey's an immovable object or something like that. But Harvey was somebody that the paper was going to have to, in perpetuity do business with. And when I say do business, I mean, like, cover his films. I don't mean that there was any kind of financial impropriety. But Harvey was somebody that the paper was going to have to deal with for the foreseeable future. And having some sort of public fight with him was probably going to create more trouble than it was worth for him. Now, that's just. We never had actually a specific conversation. That's my hypothesis about how he thought about it. I don't hold it against him. I love Peter. But what was sort of shocking was what happened after. Because I was given the directive not to speak to media about it. But I think the following day, Paula Froelich, who was working for Richard Johnson, who ran Page Six, probably one of the preeminent sort of gossip columns in existence. You know, it was a much bigger deal then than it is now. But I started getting calls from Paula who said, richard is reporting this out and Miramax is framing this as you somehow having attacked, gone in and been the aggressor on this. You've got to do something about this. My mind was blown. I was like, how could they possibly. How could they possibly frame this as us being the aggressors in this situation and post Trump, it's sort of easy to understand how stuff like this happens. Then it wasn't quite so easy. But I think at that point, point I realized after having done nothing that my only defense was to actually get it on record. And so I went to the nearest police precinct and said I want to report that I was attacked last night by Harvey Weinstein. They did not arrest him, but he was aware that I'd filed a police report which changed things, I think from the Miramax perspective considerably when they got wind of this. And that was my only defense because I was told I couldn't talk to the press.

Interviewer (25:33)

So what was your takeaway from this as a youngster watching all this happening and what are you thinking about New York society as a youngster?

Andrew Goldman (25:42)

My takeaway was I really, I thought that I was in a business, the media, which valued scoop, which valued news. Now I don't think that I was under the illusion that it valued truth, but I was under the that a great scoop like this would trump any other factors. And what I didn't realize was the raw power that he wielded trumped any of the news interest that anybody would actually have in the real story that he had enough, enough money to spread around enough people well positioned enough to bury it.

Interviewer (26:18)

After you file the police report, nothing happens, right? The police never go and talk to him.

Andrew Goldman (26:24)

Police don't do anything. Absolutely nothing happened.

Interviewer (26:26)

And he just goes on to rape women just constantly. So how do you think this affected you, you as a person?

Andrew Goldman (26:33)

It made me somewhat, I have to say I think that probably at that point I left the observer not that long after. I think that it felt like maybe it was time for me to make a transition. It was time for me to get a new job somewhere else.

Interviewer (26:49)

I mean, how did it change your worldview?

Andrew Goldman (26:52)

My eyes were opened to how power actually works in this town. I became much more cynical. That cynicism has remained with me. And sometimes when you interview people and you actually, or asking them about things that they don't feel particularly comfortable about, they don't like it. And I think that this was, this might have been the beginning of me trying to, through interviewing, speak truth to power. You know, Harvey was using his power not only to cover up assaults, and I think what happened to me was an assault covering up assaults, but he was covering up rapes in similar fashion, both by cajoling the press and also, you know, these non disclosure agreements and million and multimillion dollar paydays to victims who I think were probably in a position where that was life changing money and they had to make a decision whether they wanted to go to battle with like the most press savvy, immovable Harvey Weinstein or they wanted to, you know, have a 401 at that particular moment. Harvey Weinstein was absolutely the sheriff of that shit ass fucking town.

Natalie (28:05)

That's it for infamous. If you enjoy the show, please leave us a rating and review and tell your friends. If you want to follow me on Instagram, you can find me at Natrobe. That's N A T R O B E. And if you want to support Vanessa's work, you can buy her book, Blurred Rethinking Sex, Power and Consent on Canvas. See you next week.