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- [00:01]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
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- [01:03]
Joe Francis
Campsite Media.
- [01:07]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
This episode contains descriptions of violence that may be disturbing for some listeners. One of the wildest nights in Spring Break History Folks, I gotta get ready. It's time for Girls Gone Wild Spring break live here. Here's something I didn't tell you before from Panama city beach in 2002. Remember when I was kicked out of the Holiday Inn with Joe Francis? Joe was arrested, I was told to leave, and I schlepped my roller bag over to the shooter's condo where they stayed up drinking all night and I crashed on a couch. The next day, Joe got sprung. We met on an airstrip in front of his idling private, private plane. I was like, is there a box to check for a plane? Yeah. As soon as he got out of jail, he wanted his pilot to get his Gulf Stream ready so we could get the hell out of Panama City. We were on our way to another spring break spot, South Padre Island, Texas. Now, I am going to spare you what happened in South Padre because it was the exact same shit as before. The shooters, the flashing, the flirting. But I am going to tell you what happened on the plane. Joe told the pilot to go straight up as far as he could go and then let the plane do a huge arc, a free fall. He wanted to do zero gravity. It's something that pilots have known about forever. By dopping her plane, you can cheat gravity at least for a few minutes, even though there is a bit of a cost to it. They call these planes the Vomit Comets. No one threw up on Joe's plane, but we all started detaching and then we were flying around the cabin like astronauts. And straight down the center aisle, there was Joe. He was coming straight at me doing a somersault. He was weightless, he was free. He was working totally against the laws of gravity. From Campside Media and Sony Music Entertainment, I'm Vanessa Grigoriadis and this is infamous. We're on our final episode of our five part series, Boy Gone Wild. Stay tuned afterward for a special episode. Okay, back to Joe. When I think about the 2000s, at least in terms of pop culture, I think about Joe doing that free fall somersault on the plane. And what he said afterwards, he said, I mean, he yelled this. I'm so amped. I'm so amped. And back then, everyone was just so amped all the time.
- [04:15]
Joe Francis
I did it all for the cookie.
- [04:17]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
Come on, the cookie.
- [04:18]
Joe Francis
Come on. So you can take that cookie and stick it up.
- [04:22]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
The early 2000s were about big. They were about raunch. They were about the birth of reality shows. I bought a Jersey short. I love quido. But as crazy as this is to contemplate, there was also this really serious puritan streak to what was going on. The ranch era was also about how ranch was sort of not okay. About how taking your top off for Girls Gone Wild might be the height of feeling good at that exact moment, but it was something that you should later feel pretty ashamed of. Like, listen to this clip from Jersey Shore. Michael, go upstairs to your horse and have fun. Angelina is mad because Mike, remember him, the situation has brought girls back after a night out. So she insults the girls.
- [05:15]
Joe Francis
There's nothing wrong with what I'm doing. I don't.
- [05:17]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
I mean, if a girl's a slut, I mean, she should be abused. This double standard, this mixed message was everywhere back then. And it extended to me, too. I said earlier that there was this idea back then of two classes of women. The women who were exploited, who generally had very light bank accounts, and the women who exploited them, who went to college, got a good education, made their living producing or analyzing or having something to do with pop culture. I told myself I was an analyst of all this stuff, and in some ways I was. But in my haste to become successful myself, to become a female Hunter Thompson, who got into the seamy side of culture. I did a lot of stuff that I feel pretty weird about today. I want to say one thing about when that Rolling Stone editor took me out to lunch. A level restaurant, very like northern Italy, like, more like Milan than Naples. And I guess we talked about whatever might interest Rolling Stones, you know, young male perverted readers talking over spaghetti and Pinot Noir. It wasn't totally out of left field that he wanted me to cover groupies. I had already reported on groupies for the band Poison. Okay, I know that sounds insane. It's a very old band. But they were having a revival. And on another reporting stunt, I had also lived for 24 hours in the first CAM dorm in Tampa. I didn't take my clothes off. The owner of the dorm let me shower in the shower that wasn't wired for video. But I still slept there. Like they gave me my own bedroom. I was in a bed that had cameras trained on it with like 4,000 people watching as I tossed and turned. I was in my early 20s and I was experimenting with everything and I told myself I didn't really care. But wasn't I also being exploited in some way? Wasn't I also being told that my writing was only valuable if it leveraged my status as a young woman? I could say more about that. But you know, exploitation, when you're also being paid to write articles that you choose to write is tough. And in general, this era, the ranch era, was almost like a bat of an eyelash. It was post 911 running up to a few years before Obama. By then, gravity was pulling all of us back to earth. More about that after the break. With longer daylight hours, you may be spending more time away from home, and that can create opportunities for break inside. In fact, FBI crime data shows that burglaries are more likely to happen during the day than at night. Simplisafe is the new standard in home security, offering proactive protection that helps stop threats before they happen. Traditional systems usually only react once. A break in is already in progress. But SimpliSafe's Active Guard Outdoor protection helps prevent intrusions from the start. AI powered cameras backed by live professional monitoring agents can detect suspicious activity. The system lets agents intervene in real time. Monitoring plans start at about a dollar a day and there's a 60 day satisfaction guarantee. Visit simplisafe.com infamouspodcast to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's SimpliSafe.com infamouspodcast There's no safe like SimpliSafe.
- [09:00]
Joe Francis
In 2009, three days before Halloween, a grisly crime stunned the seaport town of Anacortes, Washington.
- [09:08]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
Mark was known as the dog whisperer of Anacortes. They soon discovered a story tangled in obsession.
- [09:15]
Joe Francis
Who was the hunter and who was the hunted Follow and listen to Train.
- [09:20]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
To Kill, the Dog Trainer, the Heiress and the Bodyguard on the Free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [09:32]
Joe Francis
You're listening to Infamous from Campside Media.
- [09:36]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
So by about 2008, the ranch era had definitively come to a close. It was slammed back to earth by gravity. All of us who worked in the space of pop culture and sex and one capacity or another had a problem. A big problem. The Internet is really, really great for porn. There are millions of people, an estimated.
- [10:01]
Joe Francis
About 40 million Americans, who surf pornography online these days.
- [10:06]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
Porn stars are available 247 on the Internet. Porn was suddenly available everywhere for free, and no one cared what you had to say analyzing it. I was getting pretty sick of writing about sex, so I was happy to move on. But it was an enormous problem for Joe Francis. He was still out there talking up a storm, being the big porn impresario. But the schtick was getting old. Here he is talking about a sort of weird incident. Stick with me for a second. The governor of New York at the time, Eliot Spitzer, had been caught with a sex worker, Ashley Dupre. And somehow it was alleged that Ashley had been on the Girls Gone Wild tapes when she was underage.
- [10:52]
Joe Francis
I don't understand it. I mean, Elliot's picture gets to have sex with her for four grand and I gotta pay 10 million because we shot some naked pictures. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
- [11:01]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
You know, her birthday's coming up. Are you gonna buy her anything?
- [11:04]
Joe Francis
I'm actually gonna send her a nice assortment of cupcakes with a thank you.
- [11:08]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
Card for suing me and getting me.
- [11:10]
Joe Francis
This press for our Girls Gonna Wild magazine.
- [11:14]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
Get the cream filling. They're fantastic.
- [11:17]
Joe Francis
I'm sure she's had plenty of the cream.
- [11:21]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
Terrible. This guy spent 11 months in jail and pled no contest to child abuse. And he's on national TV making jokes about a woman his company had filmed when she was underage. It's sort of mind boggling. And if you listen to other stuff from this time, he's still making the same argument about how he deserves to do what he's doing because the rights are in the Constitution. Here's a promotional video that he made. His hair is sort of long, flopping over his ears, and he has a very serious look on his face.
- [11:57]
Joe Francis
Girls Gone Wild has always been about.
- [11:59]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
Free expression, which is a right guaranteed.
- [12:01]
Joe Francis
By the US Constitution.
- [12:03]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
As he talks, it's impossible to miss the gigantic American flag hanging behind him.
- [12:09]
Joe Francis
I've learned the hard way that you can't take your Free speech rights for granted.
- [12:13]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
I will never stop fighting for free.
- [12:15]
Joe Francis
Expression and our right to read, hear or view whatever we choose.
- [12:22]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
Now, in America, we believe in second chances, and Joe could have had one. He had a good deal of public support in the late 2000s. I mean, you just heard those TV hosts cackling about cream filling. Not everyone wholeheartedly sympathized with girls who had posed for Girls Gone Wild, at least the ones of age. Here's a take from David Angier, the reporter.
- [12:47]
Joe Francis
I hate the idea that these women.
- [12:50]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
Had to go through that the worst.
- [12:52]
Joe Francis
Mistake in their life was now lingering with them and it was out there for people to see. And you can sympathize with somebody that young making that kind of mistake, but there's another part of you that says.
- [13:07]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
What did you expect was going to happen? I mean, the camera was right there and you're undressing and getting into bed or a shower with another woman.
- [13:17]
Joe Francis
What did you think was going to happen? So you can sympathize with the terrible decision making, but it's hard to understand how they got themselves there in the first place.
- [13:33]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
So Joe had the advantage of a bit of the benefit of the doubt. Plus, at this point, he was almost like a visionary. I mean, he had changed the culture so much that the culture had basically rendered him obsolete. Women were willing to be filmed all over the place now. I mean, the Internet was awash in nudes. Eight years after those four women sued Girls Gone Wild for filming them when they were minors, they're in court to settle a civil suit on the matter. The Chateau Motel case. I imagine Joe sitting at the bench, jiggling his knees. He's waiting for the court to start. He doesn't have a lawyer by his side, though. He's serving as his own lawyer in front of an all female jury.
- [14:18]
Joe Francis
Obviously, there were no daddies on the jury, no men to feel protective of these girls. The girls said that they had been coerced into their participation in Girls Gone Wild. And since then, the damage to their lives had been significant. That some had attempted suicide and there were financial ramifications and that things had just spiraled out of control for them ever since that decision.
- [14:47]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
In this case, it wasn't really Jo who was on trial, it was the women. At one point, Jo tried to bring up that one of these women had gone on to do porn. The judge ruled that irrelevant. At another point, Jo asked one of the plaintiffs if she was a prostitute. She'd accepted $50 from him after he allegedly forced her to masturbate him in the hotel room. This pretty much sums up how a lot of people thought about consent at the time. Like it's the girl's fault if something bad happens to her. If she put herself in a bad situation, never mind if she's underage, too drunk to consent, she's off the cameras. She was in a seedy bar during spring break. What did she expect? The onus is on the woman to always make the right decision. It's never on men not to abuse her. And that kind of thinking that what men do to women is always the women's fault is a hop, skip, and a jump from thinking that a girl who wears a revealing outfit is asking for it. Maybe it's not surprising that Joe actually won this civil case. Even with an all female jury, he didn't pay those girls a dime.
- [16:07]
Joe Francis
The plaintiffs were asking for more than $100 million in damages and punitive costs, and they ended up with zero.
- [16:19]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
When I talked to the jurors, they.
- [16:21]
Joe Francis
Did not believe that the girls should be enriched for what they saw as.
- [16:28]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
Voluntary participation in the Girls Gone Wild videos. All that stuff was just about teenage girls who cared about them. The thing that actually got Joe in trouble, it's not with girls. So, you know, it actually matters. The man who made his multi millions.
- [16:47]
Joe Francis
With these raunchy spring break videos allegedly.
- [16:49]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
Racked up a seven figure gambling debt.
- [16:52]
Joe Francis
At one of Nguyen's casinos.
- [16:53]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
Billionaire Steve Wynn. I mean gangster, but you know, I mean that colloquially. He's not a criminal, only a baller. He's the father of Las Vegas.
- [17:05]
Joe Francis
France has publicly accused Wynn of deceptive practices at his casinos.
- [17:09]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
Okay, this is very simple. Joe went to gamble at Wynn's casino. He lost $2 million, and he wouldn't pay it. A normal person would pay. That's how casinos work. You lose, you settle the debt. But not Joe. Joe alleged that when he started to do well, he was plied with wine from Steve Wynn's private wine cellar to keep gambling. According to the Las Vegas Sun, Joe said he met sex workers who said they were Steve Wynn's personal gift to you. But Nguyen sued Joe for defamation. Showdown in Sin City. That was just the first in a string of lawsuits between the two men. With a lot of high drama. Joe alleged in a countersuit that Wynn had emailed music producer Quincy Jones, saying Joe should be concerned for his life for dipping out on his tap. Remember, Remember Quincy lived across the street from Joe in Bel Air. He was gonna hit me in the.
- [18:11]
Joe Francis
Back of the head with a shovel.
- [18:13]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
And bury me in the desert.
- [18:15]
Joe Francis
I was afraid for my life.
- [18:16]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
He made it very clear that he.
- [18:18]
Joe Francis
Wanted to kill me.
- [18:20]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
But Steve Wynn wasn't having it. I certainly never sent any email threatening to kill Mr. Francis. The dispute deepened Hollywood's most buzzed about trial. On one side, Steve Wynn, the Las Vegas hotel and casino magnet. On the other, Girls Gone Wild founder Joe Francis. Francis says Wynn threatened to kill him in an email.
- [18:43]
Joe Francis
Wynn not only says that's false, he's suing Francis for defamation.
- [18:48]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
This time, Joe lost $1 million, $10 million, $3 million. The verdict read like a ringing bell at the end of a heavyweight fighter. Steve Wynn, the Vegas billionaire has emerged.
- [19:01]
Joe Francis
From the latest round not only victorious.
- [19:03]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
But $20 million richer after duking it.
- [19:06]
Joe Francis
Out in a defamation lawsuit against Girls.
- [19:08]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
Gone Wild creator Joe Francis. It's hard to believe that anybody sitting.
- [19:13]
Joe Francis
In that room could come to any other conclusion than Joe Francis is a liar. That Joe Francis is a desperate, out of control, vicious guy.
- [19:23]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
Joe was ordered to pay win $20 million. Several months later, his business filed for bankruptcy. Joe Francis founded the smutty and very successful Girls Gone Wild empire which just filed for bankruptcy because Vegas big dog Steve Wynn, one of the 500 richest men on our planet, wants his money. And when Joe's house in Bel Air went up front grabs. Guess who got it? Steve Wynn. More after the break. Hi, I'm Donna Friesen from Global National. Life moves fast these days and we want to make it even easier for you to get the news you need. That's why you can now get Global national every day as a podcast. The biggest stories of the day with analysis from award winning global news journalists. New episodes drop every day. So take this as your personal invitation to join us on the Global national podcast. You can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and wherever you find your favorite podcasts.
- [20:32]
Joe Francis
In the fall of 2001, while Americans were still grappling with the horror of September 11, envelopes started showing up at media outlets and government buildings filled with.
- [20:41]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
A white lethal powder, anthrax.
- [20:44]
Joe Francis
But what's strange is if you ask.
- [20:46]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
People now what happened with that story.
- [20:49]
Joe Francis
Almost no one knows.
- [20:50]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
It's like the whole thing just disappeared.
- [20:53]
Joe Francis
Who mailed those letters?
- [20:55]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
Do you know? From Wolf Entertainment, USG Audio and CBC.
- [20:59]
Joe Francis
Podcasts, this is Aftermath the hunt for.
- [21:02]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
The Anthrax Killer, available now.
- [21:07]
Joe Francis
You're listening to Infamous from Campside Media.
- [21:10]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
So I said a lot about the culture and how everybody was exploiting everyone. And then you heard about the ridiculous war between Steve Wynn and Joe Francis. At this point, maybe you even feel a little bad for Joe Francis, sort of like Bubba the Love Sponge did. I mean, Joe, you got so much money and you got so much going for you, but you're always getting into all kinds of problems. You might think, hey, I haven't heard Joe Francis in a while in the media or on the radio anyplace else. This sounds like an old story, but I called up someone in LA who said, it's actually an ongoing story.
- [21:47]
Joe Francis
My name is Christina Carlosi, recently retired from lapd.
- [21:52]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
She was a detective on the west side of la.
- [21:55]
Joe Francis
I was working domestic violence table, which could encompass criminal threats, batteries, online threats, things like that.
- [22:03]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
So.
- [22:03]
Joe Francis
So my boss came to me and said, I have a case for you. She said, this guy, do you know his name? Joe Francis.
- [22:11]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
Christina had never heard of him.
- [22:13]
Joe Francis
She said, well, he's kind of a high profile person in West Los Angeles and Hollywood. So she goes, just be careful. You know, you need to do everything right with this investigation.
- [22:24]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
And then her boss told her what the case was.
- [22:27]
Joe Francis
It's a battery with three girls.
- [22:30]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
Now, battery is kind of like a more serious version of assault. It's an act that inflicts real harm. So Christina reached out to one of the victims. She said she'd gone out with two of her girlfriends who were sisters.
- [22:44]
Joe Francis
They wanted to go out to Hollywood to a club. And they were not girls that go to Hollywood. They're really good girls. And that's when one of the girls was approached by Joe Francis. She's an introvert. She wasn't somebody who was out there, like, dancing and doing crazy things. She was just kind of staying close to her sister on the side. And I think that's why maybe he approached her because she wasn't like a regular Hollywood girl.
- [23:13]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
They decided to leave the club. But they say Joe appeared again outside.
- [23:19]
Joe Francis
And then he shows up to the valet in this black suv, Cadillac. He said, hey, you guys need a ride? And they said, oh, no. Our car is parked two blocks away from the club. And one of the girls, the one that was the smallest, he grabbed her arm and kind of pushed her into the Cadillac.
- [23:38]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
To be clear, this is Christina's account of events. And Joe has denied much of this story.
- [23:45]
Joe Francis
So the other two girls said, hey, what are you doing? We're just. We're going to go around the corner. We don't need. We don't need a ride two blocks. The door started to shut. So then that's when they stopped it and they got in they're like, okay, we're not going to let her go. We don't know what's happening. The Cadillac takes off and they start to go down Hollywood Boulevard and going in an opposite direction of where their vehicle was. And that's when one of the girls said, hey, you know, we're not, we're not. What are you doing? We need to get out. And then he said, well, don't you know who I am? I mean, they're 21, 22. I mean, they weren't even. I don't even think they were born when his whole enterprise came about. I mean, he was 40 something at that time. 42. They're like, no, we don't know who you are. Then that's when they were really scared. She didn't know if they were going to end up, you know, in the hills somewhere and murdered. So she called 91 1. I think it was approximately 14 times. And because of the area it didn't go through, they ended up through these gates. And that's when the Cadillac stopped. And one of them was trying to get out and the door was locked and they couldn't actually even get out, even though they were in the front of his driveway. And he said, I'll call you a taxi. Come inside. I want to show you my house. And I want to show you I have a bunch of really cool Lamborghinis or something.
- [25:04]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
There's a lot of dispute about what you just heard. Plus what happened from here. Joe said that one of the girls did indeed have cell phone service at his house, that other people were present and that they could have left any time. But here's what Christina alleges ultimately happened.
- [25:22]
Joe Francis
All of a sudden, Joe comes out of nowhere and just grabs the main battery victim by the back of her head, her hair, and slams her head four times down on the tile. Just telling her to, like, just shut up. And she's just yelling to stop. She's screaming at this point, he's just banging her head on the floor. He lets go and the other girls come out. She's just stunned. She did not see it coming. He came behind her, he said, get out, all of you, get out. You know, I called the taxi, he's coming. She tries to call 911 in between this, which it did pick up and then it dropped again. So then this taxi shows up within a few minutes, and then they get in a taxi, and then that's when Joe comes out of his house, you know, comes down the driveway and says, don't you Call the police. Don't you do anything. Don't call the police. I own LAPD. The taxi takes off. She's still trying to call 91 1. And I actually went through. Once they got down the hill from Bel Air, it picked up on somewhere near Hollywood. What's your emergency? She said, I need lapd. I need the police to come to my car. I think it's parked on Cahuenga Boulevard. The police show up at her vehicle. The officer is like, you need to go to the hospital. You all need to go to the hospital. She didn't know if she was gonna live or not or have internal bleeding. She was very scared.
- [26:49]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
After what happened with those women. Joe was charged with assault and false imprisonment, even though he denied the allegations. But that spring, the case went to trial in Los Angeles. And when the verdict came down, Joe lost it. A day after the conviction, he gave a video interview to the Hollywood Reporter.
- [27:10]
Joe Francis
Just because a jury is mentally retarded and jealous, you know, that jury should be shot dead by a firing squad.
- [27:18]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
Lovely. Joe had been found guilty of three counts of false imprisonment, one of dissuading a witness from reporting and one of assault. And now he was going to be sentenced.
- [27:31]
Joe Francis
We said, okay, well, he's got to show up for his hearing. And he never. He never showed up. He fled to Mexico.
- [27:39]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
That's right. Joe ducked out of jail time and the money he owed Steve Wynn, and he went to Mexico.
- [27:46]
Joe Francis
So then we had to put a warrant in the system. The warrant was 500,000 for his arrest. After that, we never heard from the lawyer. Nothing. He's just out of pocket left.
- [27:57]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
The warrant is under seal.
- [27:59]
Joe Francis
I don't think anybody knows that he has a warrant out. I really don't. He is still a wanted person. This just doesn't go away when you have a warrant. It just doesn't fade into nowhere.
- [28:12]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
And Christina says it could have consequences for Joe if he comes back to.
- [28:17]
Joe Francis
The U.S. he can come to the U.S. but if he's driving a vehicle and he's speeding and an officer pulls him over, you run someone's name, the warrant pops up, and they can take him.
- [28:27]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
Christina is confident that that will happen eventually.
- [28:31]
Joe Francis
He'll be stopped one day because he does not obey the rules, and he is going to be caught one day. I just. I know it. It's just a matter of time.
- [28:40]
Vanessa Grigoriadis
Stories continue to surface about his alleged mistreatment of women. Last year, in a show about Joe on tnt, a woman named Janelle alleged that he raped her after she was filmed For Girls Gone Wild, she claims that he and his cameraman took her into a small bedroom with a double bed, purple sheets. She alleges the cabinets were filled with lube, condoms, baby oil, a DVD called how to be a Player, and sex toys. And him and the camera guy said, go in the drawer right here on the left of the bed, and there is objects in there that we want you to touch yourself with. But I kind of just went with it because now I felt pressured. I used the objects and I touched myself with them. Some of these details might sound familiar to you. Someone is finding themselves on a bed in front of a camera with a sex toy. They don't want to be there. They feel intimidated. But in this story, things are alleged to escalate even further. I didn't give my consent that night, and he totally raped me. And then he got off of me like I was garbage. Although Janelle took her story public both in this testimony and to L. A. Times reporter Claire Hoffman, she never took any legal action that we could find. It's not uncommon in cases of sexual assault and rape, but Joe denies the allegation. Still, it's not the only allegation against him. He's been accused of domestic violence against the mother of his children who left Mexico for the United States. He denies this. And Joe, he's believed to still be in Mexico, where he has an amazing home, almost like a resort called Casa Aramara. Its white sand beaches, palm trees waving in the breeze, Jacuzzis and pools. It seems like a honeypot hotel for his celeb friends. Has long been a favorite with the Kardashians. In 2021, the Casa Aramara Instagram account posted a picture of Kim Kardashian enjoying the tennis court. Kourtney Kardashian once even wrote in the web guest book, I have never been to any other place in the world that is as peaceful, private, safe, and relaxing. Except Joe is still down there. Being Joe. While I was working on this story, I wrote him on Instagram to ask for an interview with a list of questions. He wrote back that he categorically denied everything I had asked. Then he said he considered just the asking of the questions harassment and in violation of Instagram's policies. He said that if I wrote him again, he would have me banned from Instagram. I wasn't surprised. Joe didn't want to talk to me. He shut a lot of doors in his life. At the end of his message, he wrote with an exclamation point, goodbye, Vanessa. Goodbye, Joe. All right, everybody, thank you so much for listening to the Girls Gone Wild series on Infamous. As you can probably tell, this was a really meaningful story for me. If you'd like to read more of my writing on college, I did write a book called Blurred Lines, Sex, Power, and Consent on Campus, A lot of which is about the strange social situation that exists around sex on campus. So check out a copy of that if you'd like. Again, it's called Blurred Lines, and that's a book I wrote. So that's it. And we'll be back next week with a whole new series.