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- [00:00]
Host
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- [01:05]
Producer/Announcer
Campsite Media Hey Infamous listeners, you might notice that this week you have two episodes in your feed. The other one is called When Modeling Became Dangerous. You can listen to that now. It's all about the 80s modeling world in New York and it's a wild ride. But here we're going to be re dropping a recent episode on Prince Andrew and it's all about his ties to Epstein. We released this episode a couple weeks ago, but there was an issue in some people's feeds so some of you may have missed it and we're sorry about that. The issue is all fixed now and we wanted to make sure you had a chance to hear it. Especially since Prince Andrew is back in the news. Last week the Crown, as they say, said that he will no longer have the title Duke of York. And it's not just Andrew. Sarah Ferguson or Fergie will also no longer use her title Duchess of York. In the royal world, being stripped of a title is a really big deal, The Times reported He'll almost certainly be excluded from Prince William's coronation whenever you know King Charles dies and William takes over. Tina Brown on her substack Fresh Hell wrote this in response to the how do you disappear? A 6 foot tall, 190 pound, 65 year old man in robust good health who has an ironclad contract to live in the Queen Mother's former mansion. A short neigh from Windsor Castle and just four miles from the new forever home of Prince William and Kate, who can't abide him. In 2019, his mother, Queen Elizabeth, had already reluctantly stripped him of his military honors, his HRH title and his royal duties. So this time he lost the cherished title of Duke of York, plus a few remaining grand honorifics. Now there is nothing left to deprive him of but his electric toothbrush. So to talk about the scandal behind all these embarrassing consequences Vanessa had on royal biographer Andrew Lowney covered all this extensively. They're starting with the most basic question first, how did Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein meet?
- [03:10]
Host
You say that you think perhaps they met in the US and they hadn't met at college. Tell me about how they met, to your mind.
- [03:18]
Andrew Lowney
Well, I'm not entirely sure. I mean, according to one of my sources who's a great friend of Ghislaine, they met in the 1980s and then Fergie met Ghislaine through Andrew. But clearly Ghislaine's version, and the one that makes more sense to me is that Fergie and Ghislaine were moving in social circles in New York in the 1990s, and it was Fergie who introduced Andrew to Epstein. And that makes more sense to me. I mean, we've got to remember that Sarah actually has more numbers in Epstein's black book than Andrew does. I mean, she was traveling on the plane possibly before him. In some ways, everyone's focused on Epstein and Andrew, but they should really be looking at Sarah's relationship with Epstein.
- [04:03]
Host
And so Sarah tell us to remind people who her family was and what she was known for from the Ocean Spray and the Weight Watchers and just her whole background.
- [04:17]
Andrew Lowney
Yeah, well, Sarah's background, she's slightly older than Andrew. Her father was Prince Charles's polo manager. There's a picture in the book of her as a young girl at a polo match with Andrew, but they kind of moved apart and they were brough together in 1985 by Princess Diana, who was a friend of Fergie's. And Fergie was on the rebound from a relationship with a not much older man who didn't want to marry her. Andrew had not been allowed to marry Koo Stark, an actress who was deemed to be unsuitable. And so they got married in 1986. They were sort of drawn together by this very juvenile sense of humor, their physical attraction. She clearly, I think, was drawn by the fact that he was a royal. The marriage didn't last very long. I mean, they separated after six years. They divorced after 10 years. And at that point she felt that she had to go and make her own living, even though actually she had a reasonably generous divorce settlement. And she began to promote Ocean Spray, as you say. She became a spokesperson for Weight Watchers and then for Wedgwood. She basically was available to sell herself to the highest bidder. And this concerned the royal family because this was monetizing her royal position, the fact that she was still a duchess, and it kind of lowered the dignity of the monarchy. And so in some ways, she was an early prototype of Meghan Markle. She just did it with a bit more charm and success. So, I mean, that's her background. And there she is 30 years after their divorce, and she's still living with him because, of course, this is her calling card. And she has reinvented herself. She's very popular in the States because she's seen as a great survivor who picks herself up. She's seen as a victim of the British establishment. But frankly, all the problems she's had, she's brought upon herself. And she's been pretty shameless in exploiting her royal connections to make money.
- [06:04]
Host
Personally, I did think of Meghan Markle quite a few times when I was reading about her in the book. But why must she continue to be so close with Andrew? Because he is the source of the royal money. I thought he was sort of cut out of that. But he still has wonderful homes that he's allowed to live in. What's the whole financial situation?
- [06:25]
Andrew Lowney
The reason that she stays with him is, you know, if she was Ms. Sarah Ferguson, no one would pay her anything to do anything. But while she's Duchess of York and she's living in Royal Lodge, she still has the fairy dust, and that's what she's selling. In terms of the money, he has plenty of money. He inherited money under trust funds. He's made a lot of money over the years from his position as a trade envoy. And he's continued to do business in places like China and the Middle east and elsewhere. So I think this is a myth that he has no money. She has large sums of money coming in. She's got flats in London that are rented out for large sums of money. He pays only a peppercorn rent for Royal lodge, something like $300 a week. So, you know, I don't think we should feel too sorry for them. And, of course, they get lots of freebies. They get given the use of clothes, which they keep. They get cars. They get upgraded when they travel. So they're not on the poverty line, I should say.
- [07:23]
Host
I guess my question is, did they need to do all of these commercial ventures or could they have just had a perfectly fine life being the Duke and Duchess of York, they could easily.
- [07:34]
Andrew Lowney
Have had a very easy life. The fact is they're greedy and they want to live a sort of jet set life. The people that they mix with, the Elton Johns and the others, you know, all have private jets and they like to live that life. They want to have expensive cars, expensive watches, to be able to entertain very lavishly, to employ large staffs and they know that they can make this money, that they're protected. No one is really going to provide any sort of scrutiny. So they've got away with it for 30 years, just basically shamelessly monetizing their position in the royal family.
- [08:10]
Host
And it's somewhat like Meghan Markle in that way where you do feel that she and Harry wanted to bestride the world, like Oprah and Brad Pitt, and they wanted to be larger than life global figures that live on a bigger stage. Right.
- [08:29]
Andrew Lowney
There are very, you know, a lot of similarities. I mean, here is actually a rather weak two weak men with much stronger, more ambitious wives hoping to sort of be half in, half out of the royal family, who had the security and structure of the armed forces. And then once they left that they kind of went wild. And as you say, they want to live with these showbiz people. That's the sort of people that they like mixing with. Whereas other members of royal family tend to mix with, you know, people they've been to school with or other aristocrats. These people want to live a slightly different life, both of them, Harry and Andrew.
- [09:05]
Host
So leaving aside some of the more complicated stuff that happened with Jeffrey Epstein, I'm curious if you think that Andrew had military connections with intelligence around the world, with politicians who were actually interested in his insights into what was going on in the uk. Do we think that indeed he had those connections much in the way people say Robert Maxwell may have?
- [09:37]
Andrew Lowney
Well, the thing, if you're in the royal family, you can invite anyone you want to lunch or dinner. So if you're interested in particular subjects, and Andrew has an interest in intelligence and spies and things, and he briefly serv as a pilot for Special Forces, but he tried to actually wanted to join the intelligence services. But yeah, he was as a special trade envoy, he was doing arms deals, he would be briefed and so he would have picked up information from people that could be useful elsewhere. Who knows what he learned just in terms of the networks which he was operating. And certainly there's a lot of Kompromat on him. This could be used to blackmail him.
- [10:15]
Host
So what about Robert Maxwell? What was his connection with intelligence?
- [10:21]
Andrew Lowney
Well, Robert Maxwell, a bit like Epstein. I don't think he was a signed up member, but he traded in information. And Maxwell had picked up intelligence connections after the war, just through his various companies doing business with Russia. So he had connections with British intelligence and with Mossad and probably with the CIA. He was the guy basically who set up Epstein, financed him. This is the money that he basically, basically was disappeared at the time of his death. This was money he transferred to Epstein, who kind of hid it. I mean, Epstein's big skill was hiding money for people, and Epstein would have hidden this money. And then when Ghislaine came across to the States, you know, they began to do things with it.
- [11:04]
Host
And so how come she says, oh, my father didn't know him in the recent DOJ tape?
- [11:10]
Andrew Lowney
Well, you can't believe everything that Ghislaine Maxwell says. I mean, she's been proven liar at her trial. And I think people are pretty appalled that she was able to give that interview and she may be offered a pardon. She gave people the information that she thought they wanted to hear. So, of course, Trump is a wonderful man who's never been ever disrespectful to women. Of course, Andrew has nothing to worry about. I think we have to just take that interview, which of course was Trump's own private lawyer with a great pinch of salt. But I do think bits of it are true ring true. And this, you know, for example, Fergie introducing Andrew to Epstein does ring true to me.
- [11:56]
Producer/Announcer
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- [14:01]
Host
What about Epstein? Was he moving money To Glenn, this $30 million for any reason that wasn't just paying her off for her silence, figuring she was essentially one of the closest people to him at that time. Maybe he wanted to help her because she didn't have any money at that point from her family. Why was that money moved over to her?
- [14:29]
Andrew Lowney
Well, in some ways it was her money, it was her father's money being passed to Epstein, but just being passed back to Ghislaine, you know, she then proved to him very useful. She, a bit like Andrew, gave him status, respectability, useful contacts, socially, certainly. You know, she then was a very effective procurer for him because she was well educated, well spoken, a female, and these young girls trusted her. She became his sort of major domo, did all the work for him, you know, his executive assistant. So it was a good system, and it was a good system to draw Andrew in because clearly Andrew gave him this respectability in contacts. I mean, Andrew admitted also that Epstein gave him good contacts. Epstein was taken on some of these trade trips and Andrew helped facilitate trade deals for him that he was doing. And these two men, you know, were sex addicts. They had to have this constant sexual gratification. They were joined by this joint interest in money and sex.
- [15:25]
Host
So the relationship with Ghislaine and Epstein, she saw him maybe as a father figure, in a way. He became her protector. But what about Andrew And Epstein, do you see it just as Buddy. Buddy and Galen and Andrew. So what were those two relationships with Andrew? How did those play out?
- [15:48]
Andrew Lowney
You know, everything is transactional. Everything is a commodity. Ghislaine claims that she was in love with Epstein, but I think it's more likely that, you know, as you say, he was her protector. He gave her the standard of living that she'd been used to and wouldn't have had otherwise. So they all were able to network using each other's group of networks, and that made them much, much more effective. But, yeah, I think they're all bisexual. I mean, they, you know, she joined in some of the sexual practices with Epstein. As I said, they had this extraordinary connection through the love of money and their love of sex.
- [16:22]
Host
Do you believe that Andrew knew, other than what was obviously became public record in Florida through the Palm beach cases, that Andrew knew that Epstein was sleeping with underage women? That he, you know, let's talk like under 17, that he had personal knowledge of any of this?
- [16:47]
Andrew Lowney
Yes. I mean, I think it's pretty. You know, anyone who went to the houses said it was pretty obvious. Just, I mean, you know, one of the lines is you go to Palm beach and there's a private quarters no one ever went to, and that was a bit. That was a bit shady. And the rest was all very elegant. But the point is, even in the Manhattan townhouse, I mean, you know, there was phallic soaps and pictures of naked girls around. No one could have any possible reason not to believe that this was a highly sexualized environment. There were lots, lots of young girls wandering around.
- [17:16]
Host
So how was Epstein helping Andrew financially during the post Palm beach period? So post. What is that, 2008?
- [17:28]
Andrew Lowney
Well, he was paying Fergie's debts. You know, the line is that he barely paid £15,000. Well, Epstein didn't get out of bed for that sort of sum of money. I mean, the figure I was given was more like 2 million. But, you know, he had Andrew really round his little finger and he could begin to call in favors. You know, Andrew. One of the reasons I understand where Andrew went in December 2010 was not to say goodbye, but just to have reassurances that there wasn't compromising material on him that would be used against him. They claimed they were friends, but actually Epstein was playing him.
- [17:58]
Host
Do you think that Andrew said to President Trump, these are Jeffrey Epstein's worst habits. This is what I saw on the island. I mean, we have President Trump saying, andrew's a fun guy. He's not pretentious or Andrew can tell you what happened on the island. He says it was a cesspool. Do we think the two of them had a sort of buddy, buddy conversation of, ah, you know, Jeffrey Epstein. This is what he's up to?
- [18:28]
Andrew Lowney
Well, I don't know if they discussed Epstein, but I mean, since they were both very close friends with him, it's very likely. But we do know, for example, I got this from an official at the New York consulate, British Consulate in New York, that when Trump and Andrew met, they had sort of locker room conversations, you know, talking about women in pretty vulgar terms. So, you know, it was a relationship that was not based, shall we say, on high minded discussions on trade. It was related on their joint interest in women.
- [18:59]
Host
And so Andrew gives this now infamous interview to Newsnight. If you haven't seen the, the documentary or there's a fictionalized TV show about them, they're fascinating. He essentially reveals himself to be a very self involved buffoon who thinks that he can give a TV interview to a real journalist and say, there's no possible way I could have had any contact with an underage girl, you know, relating to Jeffrey Epstein. The photo that was taken of me and Virginia and Ghislaine, it could have been a photo retouched and it's not a real, real photo.
- [19:50]
Andrew Lowney
Well, he said in the interview he'd never met her, he had no memory of her. And yet we have email correspondence when she pops up with Ghislaine Maxwell discussing her and how they're going to deal with her. You know, we have evidence of Ghislaine Epstein and Andrew getting PR firms to try and discredit Virginia Giuffre. And I think it's pretty clear in my book that this is a genuine photo. That's a complete red herring. I mean, they're really clasping at straws. That's what they're using to dispute this. So, I mean, the evidence is incontrovertible that they all knew each other and they were active. And if you just need to look at the flight logs, I mean, no one could construct such an elaborate lie where it all fits together. It's ridiculous to say that this is all fake. I mean, these people are just, they're being paid to defend Andrew.
- [20:42]
Host
And so since that time, since that interview, what has happened to Andrew? You know, we hear, of course, that the Queen was furious about the interview, but what steps were taken within the family and without, Well, I mean, he.
- [20:57]
Andrew Lowney
Did stand down from royal duties, but, you know, The Queen still stood by him. You know, she showed her support by escorting him to her seat. For example, was the service for Prince Philip's memorial. You know, she kept giving him honours. She made him a vice admiral. He didn't lose his dukedom. So it's a slightly mixed message that was sent out, but they could see the optics didn't look good. I mean, the fact is that people didn't want him to represent them. So, in fact, it was a group of all these military associations. Those came from the military association saying, we don't want to be connected. The charities actually resigned from his having him as a patron. The line is the Royal Family stepped in and dealt with the situation. They didn't. Everyone else stepped in and dealt with it. And they were kind of left slightly, sort of trying to do the best they could and distancing themselves from him. But, you know, he's still going to family events there. He was up in Balmoral, I think, possibly even now with the family. But I think the reason for that and the reason Sarah Ferguson is there is they need to keep them close. They're worried what stories that they. They can tell the press. Would they leak stuff to a tame journalist or writer? And so they need to keep them on side.
- [22:13]
Host
What would happen if he came to the us?
- [22:16]
Andrew Lowney
Well, I think that's a good question. Would he be stopped and asked to help the law enforcement agencies? I mean, that was certainly what they were asking and he was refusing to do. But certainly, I think one of the things that doesn't play in his favor is that lawyers were asking for him to come forward as a material witness to help them in their case. The attorney, Jeffrey Berman in New York, was asking him to assist in the inquiries. He actually tried to dodge the summons being sent to him by Virginia Giuffre. He tried to play on complicated legal arguments to try and kick out her legal claim. You know, these aren't the marks of an innocent man. This is a man using every device possible to try and get himself off.
- [23:02]
Host
The incident with Virginia that is documented is the one with the photograph, which obviously wasn't on U.S. soil. Do you believe that Virginia has other allegations in the us? Is there anything that you believe could become a criminal case in the United States for him?
- [23:23]
Andrew Lowney
Well, it'll be interesting to know if material comes out with the Epstein files, if some of the victims, you know, begin to name names. Something might emerge at that point. But certainly there was, I think, a strong case for him to be investigated in Britain for a woman being trafficked to him because I think we've got to remember this. You know, he kind of ordered her out of a catalog.
- [23:45]
Host
We're talking about Virginia, obviously.
- [23:48]
Andrew Lowney
Yes, Virginia was ordered, but, you know, there were pictures of girls and, you know, the men would look at them and say, I like the look of her. Can you provide her? So I think there is an argument certainly for Britain, but, you know, I think it's early days. I think it's going to be quite difficult to get people to come forward and talk. And certainly I was talking to one of the victims today and, you know, she doesn't want to go back over this. She's got a young daughter, you know, she wants to move on with her life and she doesn't want to rack it all up. So I think that's what's going to save him. But, you know, certainly I think there is a strong case for his time as Special Representative where he abused his position as a public official for private financial gain.
- [24:27]
Host
Tell us more about that because I feel we went through that too quickly. Tell me exactly what you located about that.
- [24:33]
Andrew Lowney
Well, I think it's actually a big part of the book. But from 2001 to 2011, he was appointed a Special Representative for Trade and Investment and his job was to promote British trade abroad. The belief was that a member of the Royal family could reach places, particularly rulers in the Middle east, that politicians, for example, couldn't reach. And he was meant to head various trade delegations to promote various British industries, not to promote British trade, but to promote his own private business interests. And this is again what happened with Pitch at the Palace. This was meant to be a charity. It was held at places like Buckingham palace to bring entrepreneurs and investors together. But he set up a separate company, Picture Palace Global, which was siphoning off money from these events to his own private bank account. And then he was involved, for example, with a man who's alleged to be a Chinese spy, who was his point man in China, who was pushing basically franchising the business out around the world. So there are lots of things going on that I think need to be investigated. And people were calling MPs 20 years ago for the National Crime Agency here to investigate him. And nothing happened because of course, no one is going to investigate the second son of the Queen. But in my view is no one is above the law. And this role was one he had as a taxpayer funded civil servant. He was there partly as a member of the Royal family, but partly as a trade envoy. And therefore those files should be made available in the National Archives. And we should have some scrutiny of who he was taking, who he was seeing, what he was doing.
- [26:11]
Host
It's kind of unbelievable the amount that you document in your book in terms of how far astray he has gone from being part of a family that is supposed to be serving the populace of Britain. And even if they're just figureheads, even if it's just all for fun and tradition and this is the life he was born into, and I guess you could say as the second son of the Queen, you know he'll never be the King, so it gives you a complex. But this seems like this has gone very, very astray from what the intention was.
- [26:49]
Andrew Lowney
Yeah, his brother and sister are also not going to be King and Queen, but they've managed to find a role for themselves supporting the monarch, doing good works, as you say, basically following public duties. And they're not enriching themselves on the back of the. So I think, you know, he's in an aberration really, he and his wife. You know, this is why I'm calling them out because they undermine the good work that all the others do where they do put public their public duties ahead of their private interests.
- [27:26]
Producer/Announcer
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- [28:27]
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- [29:33]
Host
So what do Charles and William and Kate think of him and what is that relationship at this point?
- [29:41]
Andrew Lowney
Well, the relationship with Charles is a complex one. I think there's a certain amount of jealousy between them. Charles has had his life preordained. It's not maybe the life he would have wanted. His brother, who, who was able, for example, to pursue a naval career, has gone under the radar and been able to have a slightly more private life. But, you know, Charles is aware as the king of the reputational damage that Andrew's done and he needs to deal with that. But he's a kind hearted person. I think this is his younger brother. He's quite protective of him and therefore I don't think he's been as tough as he should be. Whereas William, I think, doesn't like Andrew. I mean, he stands for all the things that, that William doesn't stand for. William and Kate are doing their public duties and, you know, haven't really put a foot wrong. And so they hate the fact that Andrew is undermining all their good work. He's distracting the message that they're trying to put out about this modern monarchy. It just seems like this corrupt 18th century monarchy. And, you know, we know Andrew has been rude about Kate. He's a snob, thinks she's a bit middle class. And, you know, William is very protective of his wife and so there's no love lost there. William, I'm sure when he becomes king, whenever that happens, will Be very tough with Andrew, depending when that happens. If he becomes king very soon, I think Andrew is complete toast. He will lose, I suspect, his dukedom. He will be relegated and tall to basically go and live in exile abroad. But if he doesn't come to the throne for, let's say, another five or six, seven, eight years, then Andrew may just quietly drift away and everyone will sort of forget about him and maybe the problem will go away.
- [31:20]
Host
And so how do you think that Virginia's recent death changes the legacy for Andrew?
- [31:29]
Andrew Lowney
Well, I think her death is very sad. It's changed the sympathies. Now, I wouldn't say he's got blood in his hands, but to a certain extent, here was this very traumatized woman who couldn't cope with life. And part of that is because of what she went through with Andrew. You know, we're never now going to be able to quiz her to get more information from her. So all we've got is her book and her statements to date. So it's slightly inconclusive, you know, in the way that Jeffrey Epstein's death was convenient for a lot of people because, you know, clearly this is a major player and they're no longer able there to give their version of events.
- [32:09]
Host
How is this all going to play out? I know you don't have a crystal ball, but, you know, we have heard this week some victims say, well, we can make an Epstein client list for you because we know who the Epstein clients are, but there's obviously a lot of defamation risk in doing something like that, and we haven't really heard much. Right. There's still the question of if Epstein was videotaping Andrew, where's the videotape? You know, we haven't seen as much audio, visual evidence as one would think. How do you see this all playing out?
- [32:44]
Andrew Lowney
Well, the audio material, the videos were collected by the FBI in 2006.
- [32:50]
Host
You think those just haven't leaked with the FBI?
- [32:52]
Andrew Lowney
I mean, a lot of stuff hasn't leaked. So it's only if the FBI want to release this stuff, but at the moment, maybe it suits their purposes to threaten to leak it rather than to leak it. Because what you achieve once you leak it, you lose your control over him. But something I think may well emerge. I mean, we've got trace calling for Andrew to be put in handcuffs. She's talking about. Now, this came from her discussions with some of the victims. So we may get more calls for investigations now. And there are First Amendment rights. So I think in the States, things could be Said things could be said on the floor of the House that wouldn't lead to defamation claims. So he must be worried, as indeed there must be other figures who are worried that their involvement with Epstein is going to emerge. So I think this is a story that has still a long way to run, I think.
- [33:45]
Host
How is it different on that side of the pond? Because here in the us obviously this story is almost like the Manson story, right? It's just continuing to go on and on. We're going to be living with it, I think for at least 20 years. I agree with you. In the short term it has a lot longer to run from a news perspective. But I'm curious how you perceive it because here it's been really taken up as evidence that the very, very wealthy have a lot more secrets and are a lot more loose and a lot more amoral than any of us know. That's really the point of the story, I think, that is resonating with people. What about for you over there?
- [34:36]
Andrew Lowney
Well, you're right. I mean, you know, it's about draining the swamp and the sense of entitled, rich, powerful people being able to shape the narrative and being able to lead these, as you say, pretty loose lives and get away with it. And establishment cover ups. And to some extent it's the same in Britain. I mean, Isabel, establishment cover up, but were focused clearly on Prince Andrew. He is the figure. I mean clearly there are many more American figures who've been named in the story, but I think Andrew is the only British figure. And of course the victims are principally American. I mean there's some like Anoushka Giorgio who are British but most of them are American. So our focus is on Andrew. But it's the same principle, the idea that there has been this huge cover up and justice has been denied to these victims and it just has reminded people that we don't know our history and people can behave if they're rich and powerful exactly as they wish and get away with it. But I mean we've not got, I mean the COVID up I suppose is the American government's cover up. There's not a cover up by the British here. But there is to a certain extent because you know, people have tried to get people. The Metropolitan Police won't look at it. You know, the fact is I haven't got access to Andrew's files for that 10 year period which should be released. People were told not to talk to me when I was investigating my book, including by the Foreign Office. So I mean there is an establishment Cover up here to protect Andrew.
- [36:12]
Host
Well, we shall see how it all plays out. Please, everybody, get Andrew Lowney's book. It's called entitled the Rise and Fall of the House of York. I've got a copy of it right here. I read it over the last, I would say three days. I am telling you, it goes very fast. And you will be shocked at the life that Andrew and Sarah Ferguson Fergie have lived. I think if you're, I don't know, under probably about 50 years old, you probably missed a lot of this because it was reported in drips and drabs on both sides of the pond. But Andrew has really brought together the previous reporting, the new reporting, and just woven it all into this scheme that is fascinating. Kind of stranger than fiction in some ways. So thank you so much, Andrew, for coming on our show.
- [37:07]
Andrew Lowney
Well, thank you so much.
- [37:12]
Producer/Announcer
That's it for Infamous. If you enjoy the show, please leave us a rating and review and tell your friends. If you want to follow me on Instagram, you can find me at Natrobe. That's N A T R O B E. And if you want to support Vanessa's work, you can buy her book, Blurred Lines. Rethinking Sex, Power and Consent on Campus. See you next week.
- [37:52]
Andrew Lowney
And Doug, here we have the Limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.
- [38:08]
Host
Uh, limu is that guy with the binoculars watching you?
- [38:10]
Producer/Announcer
Us.
- [38:11]
Andrew Lowney
Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty, Liberty, Liberty.
- [38:16]
Producer/Announcer
Liberty Savings Fairy. Underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company affiliates.
- [38:19]
Andrew Lowney
Excludes Massachusetts.