Infamous Podcast: "Jeffrey and Ghislaine's Secrets | Part I"
Date: September 11, 2025
Hosts: Vanessa Grigoriadis, Gabriel Sherman, Natalie Robehmed
Episode Overview
The first installment of "Jeffrey and Ghislaine's Secrets" sets the stage for a deep dive into the intertwined lives of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. The hosts guide listeners through Epstein's mysterious death, the origins and rise of both figures, and their evolution from outsiders to players at the highest levels of society. The episode seeks to cut through rumor, myth, and conspiracy to establish a factual baseline for the duo’s infamy, exploring the cultural roots of the obsession with the Epstein story.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Circumstances Surrounding Epstein’s Death
- Opening Scene: Vanessa paints a cinematic account of the morning Epstein was found dead in his cell (01:08).
- “On the ninth floor, one of the guards approaches a cell…there in the dawn light, he finds a man…there's an orange noose around his neck...” (01:38, Vanessa Grigoriadis)
- Host acknowledges skepticism and conspiracy theories surrounding the suicide ruling and hints at the cultural obsession with the case.
2. Introduction to Ghislaine Maxwell
- Brief news clip introduces Maxwell as Epstein’s alleged accomplice (03:50).
- Maxwell’s own voice proclaims, “I believe that he was murdered.” (04:00, Ghislaine Maxwell)
3. Diverging Perspectives on the Epstein Saga
- Vanessa and Natalie lay out their personal, sometimes opposing, perspectives on the broader meaning of the Epstein story (04:26).
- “The Epstein tale even encouraged the level headed among us to verge on conspiracy theorists.” (04:41, Natalie Robehmed)
- The show commits to separating fact from internet fiction.
4. Epstein's Early Life in Brooklyn
- Epstein’s humble upbringing in a working-class Jewish family in Coney Island is explored (05:41).
- Thomas Volscho, a sociologist and Epstein researcher, emphasizes Epstein’s ordinary background:
- “His father…was making about, in today's money, about $65,000. Like, imagine trying to live on $65,000 in Brooklyn with a family of four.” (08:19, Thomas Volscho)
- Epstein’s intelligence and ambition: skipped two grades, excelled at chess, proclaimed to classmates, “I'm going to be rich when I grow up.” (09:30)
5. Epstein’s Educational Path and Entrance to Dalton
- Epstein dropped out of two colleges but managed to secure a teaching position at the elite Dalton School by falsifying his credentials.
- “I believe he said that he got a degree from UC Berkeley and that he did graduate study in math at Stanford University. Neither of these things were true, but it didn’t matter.” (14:15, Thomas Volscho)
- Epstein was unconventional—attending student parties, dressing flamboyantly—raising eyebrows but making important connections, especially with Ace Greenberg of Bear Stearns (15:26).
6. Epstein’s Rapid but Troubled Rise on Wall Street
- Despite being caught lying on his resume, Epstein talks his way into a job at Bear Stearns.
- “When I told him he'd lied, he admitted it immediately…he said, ‘I knew I couldn't get a job teaching at a high-quality school if I didn't have good educational credentials…’” (17:15, Michael Tenenbaum)
- Accusations of insider trading and strange behavior eventually force his departure from Wall Street, launching his solo trading firm.
7. Ghislaine Maxwell’s Aristocratic Origins and Fall
- Maxwell grows up as the beloved daughter of Robert Maxwell—media tycoon and MP—reveling in society’s upper crust (21:55).
- “With her French name and British airs, Guylaine was raised with all the trappings of high society—a 53-room mansion, private jets and an army of servants.” (22:44, Natalie Robehmed)
- She aids her father’s various business ventures in the US and UK, including the New York Daily News.
8. Maxwell’s Father’s Death and Financial Ruin
- In 1991, Robert Maxwell mysteriously dies at sea. Ghislaine discovers the family fortune is gone:
- “...there was nothing else. And there was not a single penny that came to any of us at any time, ever.” (27:42, Ghislaine Maxwell)
- Ghislaine, beset by scandal and loss, relocates to New York to start over.
9. The Fateful Meeting of Epstein and Maxwell
- Ghislaine details, for the first time, her own account of meeting Epstein in 1991 through a mutual friend, refuting rumors Epstein met her father first.
- “I met Mr. Epstein in 1991. I'd never heard of him or met him before, and no one in my family had ever either.” (25:25, Ghislaine Maxwell)
- “He invited me to have tea. And I was like, tea? That’s English. Okay.” (26:07, Ghislaine Maxwell)
- Memorable anecdote: Ghislaine recalls Epstein’s “giant tomato ketchup stain” on his tie at their first meeting (26:42). She notes his rough edges but engaging personality: “He was very engaging and kind of sad.” (26:59)
10. Parallel Losses Draw Them Together
- Both lose their fathers within months, forming a bond. Ghislaine describes their short-lived romantic involvement and the odd dynamic that followed:
- “So in 1992, I slept with one type of…And I was like, whoa, that’s it, we’re going to be dating…But we didn’t sleep together again for...maybe nine months.” (29:18, Ghislaine Maxwell)
11. The Formation of a Powerful—And Infamous—Duo
- Ghislaine, seeking “to do something positive” after her loss, and Epstein, now a fixture on the Upper East Side, become partners—though not quite in the traditional romantic sense (31:12).
- Their union paves the way for the abuses and crimes to come.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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On Epstein’s death and its impact:
- “Epstein’s death in this jail cell was ruled a suicide. But that hasn’t convinced a contingent of the Internet who believe that he was actually murdered as part of a cover up. His story is a sick and twisted true crime tale. It’s an obsession which says more about our culture than we’d like to admit.”
— Vanessa Grigoriadis (02:55)
- “Epstein’s death in this jail cell was ruled a suicide. But that hasn’t convinced a contingent of the Internet who believe that he was actually murdered as part of a cover up. His story is a sick and twisted true crime tale. It’s an obsession which says more about our culture than we’d like to admit.”
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On the power of rumor and conspiracy:
- “So much of what’s out there about Epstein is still rumor or hearsay or speculation—just Internet make believe. Untangling what’s real and what’s not is what we’re going to do now together.”
— Vanessa Grigoriadis (05:41)
- “So much of what’s out there about Epstein is still rumor or hearsay or speculation—just Internet make believe. Untangling what’s real and what’s not is what we’re going to do now together.”
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On Epstein’s ambition:
- “According to the book The Spider, Epstein was in the ninth grade when he told a future classmate, ‘I’m going to be rich when I grow up.’ The classmate later noted, he didn’t say, ‘When I grow up I’m going to be rich’ like a regular kid might. This was a declaration, and Epstein set out to make it so.”
— Vanessa Grigoriadis (09:30)
- “According to the book The Spider, Epstein was in the ninth grade when he told a future classmate, ‘I’m going to be rich when I grow up.’ The classmate later noted, he didn’t say, ‘When I grow up I’m going to be rich’ like a regular kid might. This was a declaration, and Epstein set out to make it so.”
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On Maxwell’s fall from grace:
- “There was nothing else. And there was not a single penny that came to any of us at any time, ever.”
— Ghislaine Maxwell (27:42)
- “There was nothing else. And there was not a single penny that came to any of us at any time, ever.”
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On meeting Epstein:
- “He had a giant tomato ketchup stain on his tie. So I was like, wow. Okay.”
— Ghislaine Maxwell (26:42)
- “He had a giant tomato ketchup stain on his tie. So I was like, wow. Okay.”
Timestamps for Important Segments
- 01:08 — Detailed account of Epstein’s jail cell discovery and death
- 04:00 — Ghislaine Maxwell’s (archival) assertion: “I believe that he was murdered.”
- 05:41 — The launch of the “actual/factual story” approach
- 09:30 — Epstein’s early ambition and declaration to become rich
- 12:20 — Epstein’s college years and his “failing upwards” into Dalton
- 14:15 — How Epstein lied his way into Dalton with a fake résumé
- 17:15 — Michael Tenenbaum on discovering Epstein’s résumé lies at Bear Stearns
- 21:55 — Introduction to Ghislaine Maxwell’s socialite upbringing
- 25:25 — Ghislaine Maxwell’s own account of first meeting Epstein
- 27:16 — Maxwell’s father’s mysterious death and her financial crisis
- 29:18 — Ghislaine on the unusual romantic dynamics with Epstein
- 31:12 — The pair consolidate their relationship and access to power
Conclusion
Part I of the Infamous miniseries “Jeffrey and Ghislaine’s Secrets” sets out to demystify the origins and early maneuverings of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Through probing interviews, personal perspectives, and revealing archival audio, the episode unpacks the psychological and societal forces at play. The show leverages both skepticism and rigor to frame how two outsiders scrabbled to the heights of the social register—and hints at how their pursuit of power ultimately took them, and their victims, to dark places.