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- [00:01]
Host
This episode is brought to you by Netflix. 132 rooms, 157 suspects, one dead body. One wildly eccentric detective, one disastrous date dinner. The Residence is a screwball whodunit series set among the eclectic staff of the world's most famous mansion, the White House from Shondaland, with an all star cast including Uzo Aduba as rye detective Cordelia Cupp. Watch the residents now only on Netflix.
- [00:32]
Campsite Media
Campsite Media.
- [00:35]
Host
Just a reminder, if you haven't listened to our series on Murder at Lululemon, please scroll back and go all the way to part one. Start there before you listen to this one. To be clear, a lot of what we're covering in this episode is in the past. Lululemon has a new leader, they have new practices now, and they also did not respond to a writt of questions that we sent them about some of the material that we've been covering in this series. You know, I do think the company is quite different now. I was in the Soho store myself the other day and I didn't even see any inspirational sayings around. I just saw a lot of athleisure wear. But to get back to our story, one thing we haven't talked about yet is how the company reacted to the murder of Jana Murray. Here's attorney John McCarthy, who you've been hearing from a lot.
- [01:32]
John McCarthy
I say we did have interaction with.
- [01:34]
Host
Lululemon corporate and our contact had to do mainly with finding out informational backgrounds, information they had mainly about Brittany and why she got moved from a previous job. And also just they were very cooperative in terms of they turned the store over to us. I mean, they basically that store got closed down and we must have been in possession of that score for several to basically do the forensic testing and stuff. So most of it was logistical kinds of contact background on Brittany and just the logistical coordination to have access to the crime scene till we got done doing the investigation. Even Brittany herself, while the investigation was going on, said her interactions with Lululemon were positive.
- [02:21]
Kat
Have you had a chance to talk.
- [02:22]
John McCarthy
To the Lululemon people?
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Kat
Did they reach out for you already.
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Campsite Media
Or you want to say it was.
- [02:26]
John McCarthy
Their executive VP of HR actually came by today.
- [02:30]
Host
That's what your sister. Yeah, she can mess up.
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Kat
Are they local or.
- [02:35]
John McCarthy
It's a Canadian company, so they, they.
- [02:38]
Campsite Media
Came here from Canada.
- [02:39]
Host
This episode we're going to talk more about the originally Canadian company Lululemon and what the store is and represents. Now, I do want to talk for a second about my teenage daughter who really covets their leggings and wants badly to wear them. I do not want to pay this much for teenage leggings, but I asked her recently how she feels about them.
- [03:08]
Kat
The popular girls wear it. I think they're well made and it's just like a brand name thing. Like, why do you like, why do you like Gucci so much? Because it's like a brand name. Like, you can't really say why. Just like it because it's like a brand name.
- [03:21]
Host
But I think you're supposed to like it because it's like good. Yeah, yeah. No. So that's the way a 13 year old perceives the brands that are all around her. You just want them because they're brands, not because they stand for something else. But of course, as adults, we know it's more than just that. Lululemon isn't just well fitting leggings, it's a whole ethos, one about striving and goals and becoming your best self. So this episode, our producer, Lily Houston Smith is going to interview a bunch of different people who have interacted with Lululemon to unpack all of that a bit. She's starting with Kat, the educator who was way at the beginning of this series, the one who worked in the store in soho and talked about how we all know some people who are into yoga because they there's darkness lurking in them.
- [04:28]
Kat
I think we've all seen the type of person who gets super into exercise generally because there's darkness lurking and there's anger there. And there is at Lululemon, this culture, or there was when I worked there. I don't know what it's like anymore. But this culture of intensity, like you're going to your workout classes and you're wearing the clothes and you are setting your goals and you're going to achieve your goals. And I can see how it's not a lot of lackadaisical, laissez faire kind of personalities.
- [05:01]
Host
Selling yoga clothes ended up being a great experience for Kat. There was no grisly murder at her store. Jaina's tragic death actually happened years before. She worked there at a totally different branch of the store in Bethesda. And actually, when we told Kat about the murder, she said she'd never even heard about it, but she also said she wasn't that surprised. Now, obviously we can't blame Lululemon for Britney's actions. Between her shoplifting and the restraining order that had been issued against her, she had clearly had a troubled history. We aren't saying in any way Shape or form that Lululemon was responsible. But the way that Lululemon created goals and ethics for the employees and Britney's sense that these things would set her life on the right track. And her anger over being caught shoplifting, which she likely knew was going to lead to her being fired and being knocked off that track, getting that job at Equinox, fixing her money problems, all the things she was aspiring to do. While all of that does seem to me like it may have contributed to Britney's mindset that night, here's Lily talking to Kat about how the store sometimes felt like more than a normal retail job. And we're just gonna let them talk for a while.
- [06:22]
Kat
I worked at Lululemon from the fall of 2016 to the spring of 2017. So it was a kind of short but meaningful six to eight months. I worked at a store called SoHo Women's in SoHo in New York. It was only women's clothes and men's store. Men's clothes were sold across the street. But I picked up shifts at stores all over the city during that time. So that. And I was just a part time educator. Educator is the term for just like sales associate, but it's Lululemon, so it can't just be called. That has to be called educator.
- [06:55]
Host
Can you describe what the store looks like inside?
- [06:58]
Kat
Yes. So soho Women's was very. I mean, like a lot of stores in soho, it was. It was long and narrow and it was only women's clothes, which created a very fun vibe. And also because it was soho, I remember it was like all black everything. In a lot of other stores, they would put in more colors, but because it was SoHo, it was like women here wear black. Something. From the way this door looked that is truly funny is that there was this window and it had like a window seat. And sometimes they would let, slash, encourage, ask one of us to go do yoga in the window. And I barely knew how to do yoga, but it was amazing because then you didn't have to talk to anyone, you know, because sometimes in retail you just can't, like, you just can't do it. So we would alternate just going in the window and doing like a flow as if it was like Cirque du Soleil or something. And it was wild.
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Host
That's why I feel like I've never seen that. I've never seen people.
- [07:53]
Kat
No, I've never seen anyone at any other store do it. So I don't know if that was just something that went on at our store or. Or what the thought behind it. But people would stop and take pictures of you and stuff. And I would be like, this is. I hope that I never have to see any picture of myself doing this. I'm just doing this so that I don't have to talk about sports bras for two minutes.
- [08:08]
Host
So can you describe the clientele? Like, who's coming in to this store?
- [08:13]
Kat
So at my store, it was a lot of tourists because it was in SoHo, but also it was just a lot of really chic thin women who were pretty intense and kind of weren't in there to chat. You know, a lot of them probably had pretty high powered jobs and were hitting soul cycle at 5am and just needed their clothes to do that in. But something that was interesting about Lululemon was every store had kind of a tailored approach to their clientele based on where they were. On the Upper east side, they took a personal shopper approach, which we did not do in Soho. So you just kind of waited by the door and then someone came in and you were their personal shopper for their whole experience, which I did not enjoy, I think for some reason. I think it was called Pop. And the personal shopper or something was worked in there, but we never did it at Soho Women's. The thing, the job that I often took at my store and the first job I ever had there was called DofI, which stands for Director of first impressions. So that was just being a greeter, but it was called dophy.
- [09:18]
Host
So from talking to some other people.
- [09:19]
Kat
In reading, some of the sense I've.
- [09:21]
Host
Gotten from the managers at Lulu and about just the culture is that there is this kind of blurring of personal professional that there's this, like, encouraging to talk about maybe sort of personal things. Can you just talk about some of that?
- [09:34]
Kat
I absolutely can. So there was this practice there called clearing, where the thought behind that was before you start a shift, like, clear the air and set an intention for your shift, or maybe just let something go that's gonna bother you and hold you back from being the best possible educator that you could be that. And, you know, I remember one time a coworker of mine had come from a funeral, so she needed to clear that she had been at a funeral and like, just let the energy from that go so that she could get out there and, you know, be a good Lululemon employee and a big part of working there as well. And this was actually really positive for me was that Lululemon was this company that was very much based around goals and helping you Achieve your goals and helping you set your goals. Because the thing about working retail, especially in a city like New York, is that most people who are working there are not wanting to work there long term. And Lululemon was very aware of that. So we would have these workshops and in staff meetings, it would. There would be dedicated time to goal setting where you would set your goals for like six months, a year, I think even five and 10 years sometimes. And it wasn't necessarily that those goals had to be personal, but they were encouraged to be personal and they were encouraging us to be realistic about what we wanted to do. Manifesting out loud, that was a big thing too, which is very cheesy and a strange thing to do at work, but I have actually found to be really helpful.
- [11:06]
Host
Well, what is that? What does manifesting out loud look like? Like, what would you say to manifest out loud?
- [11:09]
Kat
Like, they would make us go around. I mean, make sounds severe, but we would go around and read our cards. We would write them on these cards and say our goals out loud. Because there's allegedly science. And I believe this. I'm sure that they weren't lying about it, hopefully, but around how much more likely you are to achieve your goals if you say them out lo and have people holding you accountable to doing them. And so, you know, I would go around and say, you know, I'm gonna write 5,000 words this week. And someone would say, I'm gonna go to X number of dance classes, which is in service of my goal to get equity by October or whatever. It can feel really serious. And I mean, I don't know, because there's something to be said for when you're living your life and things are maybe going on in your life. And then you go into this store and it becomes this almost magnifying glass or microcosmic thing. This one time, my co workers used to give me so much shit about this. Like, there was this woman who came into the store and she wanted this, an energy sports bra for her daughter. And her daughter was a size six. This was eight years ago. And I remember these details. And I. It was Christmas time and we didn't have it in the store. And I went down to the basement and we didn't. We just didn't have it in that size. And it was really easy to order them online. This was not a big deal. The woman was super nice. And for some reason, when I went to tell her that we didn't have it, I just burst into tears and was crying to this woman was like, we don't have the size. I'm so sorry. And she was like, it's fine. And I to this day don't know why I got so emotional about that.
- [12:35]
Host
It's just a lot.
- [12:36]
Kat
It's just a lot. And because they ask you to bring your full self, but also don't. It can create an environment of dissonance, I guess. Does that make sense?
- [12:49]
Host
Yeah, it does. Was that your only quote, breakdown in the store or were there other times?
- [12:56]
Kat
No, there were definitely other times. There were def. There was definitely more than one breakdown. I didn't kill anyone, but there was one breakdown.
- [13:11]
Host
If fashion is your thing, ebay is it. Ebay is where I find all my favorites, from handbags to iconic streetwear, all authenticated for real this time. A little supreme, some Gucci. I even have that vintage Prada on my watch list. That's why ebay's my go to for all my go tos. Yeah, ebay. The place for new, pre loved vintage and rare fashion. EBay things people love. Eczema isn't always obvious, but it's real. And so is the relief from EVGLIS. After an initial dosing phase of 16 weeks, about 4 in 10 people taking EVGLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing. EBGLIS Lebricizumab LBKZ, a 250mg per 2ml injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least.
- [14:07]
John McCarthy
88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate.
- [14:09]
Host
To severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. Ebglis can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglis.
- [14:28]
John McCarthy
Before starting Epglis.
- [14:30]
Host
Tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection searching for real relief. Ask your doctor about ebglis and visit epgliss.lily.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.
- [14:43]
John McCarthy
This is infamous from Campside Media.
- [14:47]
Host
One of the reasons I'm so fascinated by Lululemon is that it feels like the height of the athleisure craze, been so significant to American culture in the past, let's call it 10 years. We just dress differently now with a lot more leggings and sweatpants. Our speech is even much more casual and in some ways you could say coarse. I also think that athleisure signals to other people virtue in a weird way. It signals that you care about taking care of yourself, that you're virtuous yourself, and gives you the aura of that very American thing that we call self reliance. It's all tied in with the way that women are being asked to do more and more and more today, that we have to wear our exercise clothes to then go to our job or go to school, pickup. Just the way that, you know, life is so stacked against us and there's never any time to do anything or to even calm down. Now, I could be reading too much into all of this because Lululemon is also just about your butt looking good in pants. But to speak for a minute about Chip Wilson, the former leader, he had a lot of ideas about how he wanted his company structured. I'm going to read a bit from an article that was written about him in the New York times magazine in 2015. And again, reminder that a lot of what we're talking about in this episode and the people we're interviewing were connected to the company long ago. So in this article, the author writes that Chip was determined that his employees should be sophisticated retail educators. And he resolved from the outset to pay them more than sales clerks usually make, as much as 30% over the local rate. Higher wages, he thought, would mean less turnover. And he wanted to unlock the potential of his employees. The article also talks about the goal setting that employees were asked to do and post in the store's break rooms, and that this was an idea that Chip had borrowed from Brian Tracy, who is the author of a book called the Psychology of Achievement. And that's one of the self help books that Chip says he lives by now. This is actually pretty similar to the way that lots of millennials want to think about work. You shouldn't just be a cog in a machine or a set of hands on an assembly line. Instead, you should seek to find some personal fulfillment in your professional life, especially since most of us spend more than half our waking hours doing it. But not everyone appreciates this idea. Lily's going to talk now to a former Lululemon employee who worked at the Bloor street location in Toronto in the mid 2000s. She's going to talk first about meeting Chip.
- [17:48]
John McCarthy
I don't know if he went to all the stores, but I think he went to a bunch of the, like, flagship stores, I'm sure just as a goodwill thing.
- [17:55]
Host
This former employee's name is Elena. She was working in this boutique selling the pants, the clothes, most of it made with the very cool technical materials that Chip Wilson had figured out.
- [18:07]
John McCarthy
So he came through our store and, like, did the super bluff person, the very, like, presidential kissing babies thing where he, like, went through the store and, like, introduced himself personally to each one of the people that was working there and asked, you know, how. How do you like this? Or how do you like that? You know, very blah, blah, blah. Felt very much like the president walking down the line kissing the babies.
- [18:32]
Host
What were the responsibilities, like, in the store? Was it sort of typical retail or.
- [18:36]
Kat
Did it go beyond?
- [18:38]
John McCarthy
I mean, for the most part, it was like, the responsibilities in the store were pretty typical ret. But they also, like, literally part of my orientation process was having to do this, like, goal setting worksheet that they. They then hung everyone's personal goal setting worksheet, like, up in the back office so everyone could see it. And it wasn't just goals related to the op, like, to the venue, but also, like, your personal goals, what you want to accomplish, what you want to heal from. Like, things that, you know, in. Especially in hindsight, you're like, how did any of these people, who I of course, now know were literally just people like me who had maybe worked there an extra six months longer and had done the extra weekend of manager training, like, they were not therapists, and yet they were putting all of that information out there. And not only that, but when we would do, like, evaluations or talking about, you know, our performance reviews or whatever, it was never just about our performance in the store. They would bring those goal sheets out and they would, like, confront you with them, like, well, what have you done to accomplish this goal? What have you been doing to make more friends in your personal life? How have you been striving to move through the stages of grief while, like, things that you're just like, this is not about fucking folding pants. This is none of your goddamn business. And they would do it in places like Starbucks. Like, I have a really traumatic memory of my manager and the assistant manager who is training to be a manager, sitting me down at a Starbucks. And they started by giving me this little, like, gift card. Like, you've been such a great team member. We're so proud of you. And then pulling out my goal sheet and like, hammering me about things. Like, I was in the process of planning my wedding. They were asking me questions about that. And I remember just like sitting there basically dissociating, trying to hold back tears in this Starbucks, clutching this gift card in my hands, going like, I don't even know how I got here. And I honestly don't even remember how we got back to the store. Like, I feel like I just kind of shut down. And they kept throwing questions at me until it was apparent that I was, like, monosyllabic at best. And then they just brought me back to the store and had me open boxes in the back. Whole, like, wholly inappropriate, not necessary. And I'm sorry. The job was opening boxes, folding pants, and, like, writing people's names on change room boards. It was not changing the world.
- [21:07]
Host
Do you remember just, like, more sort of company culture, things like, particular lingo that they used?
- [21:13]
John McCarthy
Yeah, I mean, it was. I'm trying to think, like, it's also been almost 20 years. So, like, I mean, everything was always about positivity. Like, they gave. They used the word feedback all the time. They were constantly looking for customer feedback, client feedback, but they always wanted it spun very positively. So, like, for example, if a client or customer was like, hey, I want to give you feedback on these pants. They stain really easy. If you wrote that on the board, you would get in trouble because it wasn't a positive spin. They would want you to write it. Like, these pants could be improved with stain resistance as opposed to, like, these pants are very easily stained with sweat and body oils, which, like, is a valid concern.
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Campsite Media
Yeah.
- [22:02]
John McCarthy
In athletic wear, they used the term defensiveness to try and kind of stop any negative feedback about the company or their policies. So anytime. Like, for example, when I took over merchandising, we were on Bloor street and our window was directly beside Hermes. And I was given a budget, usually of between 100 and $150 to, like, put together, like, buy things to put together our window. And, like, I thought I got pretty creative. And not to say that I'm a genius. I'm sure some of my stuff could have improved. But I remember having one of the, like, head merchandisers from head office come to give me feedback. And some of it was useful and whatever. But then they got into like, well, let's take a comparative look at us and Hermes. Like, how could we look more expensive? And I was like, well, an easy way would be for us to increase our budget. Like, I know from speaking to the merchandiser there that they spend 10 grand on a budget and we spend at best 150 and immediately was like, well, you don't need to be defensive. So yeah, defensiveness was very much just a general term for any time you disagreed with anyone.
- [23:20]
Host
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- [23:57]
Kat
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- [23:58]
Host
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- [24:04]
John McCarthy
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- [24:05]
Host
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Kat
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Host
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- [24:21]
John McCarthy
This is infamous from Campside Media.
- [24:26]
Host
So yes, Lululemon is a very intense company. One of the things the company used to do is let employees take an intense inspirational course through a company called Landmark Worldwide. Landmark runs workshops in which people have breakthroughs about where they are stuck in their lives. And according to that New York Times magazine article, quote, every employee is strongly encouraged to enroll in the Landmark Forum at Lululemon's expense. Chip Wilson also told the reporter that when he first discovered Landmark, he was struck by the idea that, quote, once I take responsibility, then I have power. And he's talking about of course, having power in your life. The Landmark form, which for me phenomenal from learning, like the definition of integrity, why I complain, how I communicate, how I create really transformational. Lily spoke about Landmark with Anne L. Peterson.
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Campsite Media
My name is Ann L. Peterson and I am a former Landmark Worldwide Landmark education. It's had different names kind of over the years. Graduate program leader, program manager, assisting program manager, kind of all the key roles that you can hold inside of the Landmark ecosystem. And I'm the first insider of any position to actually speak up. I started that. I came about that when I was 20, I think I was 29, maybe even younger than that, 27. So 95, 96, somewhere in there. And my husband was going to leave me. And it was the biggest crisis in my life. And my best girlfriend in the world said, nope, you got to do the Landmark Forum. Because if you do the Landmark Forum, then even if you guys decide to split up, we had a two year old at the time. It'll be a choice, not a decision. And I didn't even know really what that meant, but I'm like, okay, fine. And so I literally wrote a bad check register for the Landmark form, get myself in the next program. Three days in an evening, it's going to sort out life. My husband does it with me and it definitely sorted out life. By the end of the forum, I was like, yeah, you should move out. But that's kind of the way the Landmark Forum goes actually. For a lot of people, it's a really pivotal moment in your life because it's a very intense program. I would call, it's officially a large group awareness training would be it's classification in the world of personal development programs. What that means is it's intense, right? So it's three days, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, from like 9 in the morning to 1011 at night. Basically in the Landmark Forum, you find out you're. You find out your blind spots. And the joke used to be you find out you're an asshole and your life doesn't work like that's kind of the thing. And you know, and then you take responsibility for where you've been a jerk in life and you start cleaning up things with people in your family, etc. And sometimes cleaning up looks like breaking up those relationships and sometimes it looks like making up in those relationships. And it's a really impactful experience. It's this amazing community. People are up to stuff. When you sit around with Landmark graduates, you're like talking about like important, serious difference. Maybe we're going to change the world. You know, we're transforming life itself. These are the kinds of things you're talking about. What does that mean? That means, you know, here's all the cliches. A world that works for everyone, with no one and nothing left out. And that's what we're doing day in and day out. And every person register in the Landmark Forum is one more transformed person for a transformed planet. That's the narrative. So people in the forum, and this is the tough part about it, this is why a lot of people want to protect it. So in the forum and in programs like that, you open Up. The space is created in a way like that. You can kind of go deep into your soul and like, open up anything that you consider to maybe have been a barrier. So here's how they would say it. It's a barrier to your full participation and expression in life. But you're always encouraged to look in, in, in, in, and deeper, deeper, deeper. You're not forced, but this is where the group environment means a lot. So the person who sort of is the most popular in the forum is the one who unconceales the biggest, hairiest, scariest thing. Oh, I can see my sex life isn't working because turns out I was raped. So from 2001 to 2012, I'm a wisdom course leader, traveling all over the US every weekend I'm leading a course somewhere, just one. Each weekend is 40 hours. You fly out on Thursday. You have your first meeting Thursday night with your team. You lead Friday, Saturday, Sunday, you meet with your team Sunday night, you got on an airplane. On Monday, you come home. My daughter, my family always knew, don't talk to mom on Mondays, because I like talked out, you know, and then you get up and do it again. You do that. Three weekends a month was my schedule, and then I'd have one weekend a month to myself. But in between the weekends, fill those programs to train the volunteer teams. I had over 200, just over 200 people volunteering with on my teams. And my job was to ensure they got 10 times the value of their time out of their assisting. People get to go in the forum and they can work on whatever they want to work on. And. But Chip's idea, as with many of these other people, is like, well, if people take on being a more integrous person, a person who exercises responsibility, and you want to know, in that circle, responsibility is. You are the source of everything that is happening. Well, what employer wouldn't want somebody that thinks like that? There you are. You're a clerk in a Lulu store, but you're owning every aspect of the business and its success. Because who you are, because you've done this program, is a person of responsibility and integrity as identified in this particular model of integrity. So he was really like gangbusters. And literally hundreds of people are now going through the forum on Lulu's dime. Well, that's, you know, that's a big deal to landmark. It is secular spirituality. I would say you don't need religion in order to be a good person, you know, to be an ethical person, to be a person of integrity, to be a Person who is responsible, has personal responsibility and authenticity. These are all the, like, hallmarks of the Landmark programming. That bucket is called human potential programs. Right. Personal growth and development becomes a both secular and commercialized endeavor. My take on Chip always was, like I said, he's a, he was big hearted, he was sincere and very blind to his own fallacies, as most middle aged white men can be. When I met him, that was, I was very struck by, he's, you know, just kind of this jock that made good, you know, did want to do good, but he got, like many of us, he kind of got pulled into the personal development world without realizing that's what was happening. It's a high. And then you want like the whole world to have it. So you start, whatever your resources are, you start committing that into the, the organization, the apparatus, the process. You are indoctrinated is the word we now understand. Right. You're kind of sucked into this secular ideology that is now the way the truth and the light. That happens very slowly. You don't realize that's really what's happening.
- [32:30]
Host
Lily also spoke with Elena, the former employee on Bloor street in Toronto, about Landmark. Do you remember when you were first approached about Landmark? Was that like right at the beginning.
- [32:41]
Kat
Or did that come on?
- [32:42]
John McCarthy
No, I was definitely. It was around when they were talking about moving me up into being the assistant merchandisers. It was around then that they started kind of suggesting to me that I should do Landmark. And I chatted with a few of the people who had done it. And I'll be honest, I didn't click with a lot of the people I worked with. There was a couple that I really did. And so of course I was much more interested in their takes on it. Many of the staff who were, as we like to say, drank the Kool aid, who were like all in on everything, were always talking about how transformational Landmark was and how wonderful it was. But when I spoke to the people that I aligned with more, just as a human, their experiences with Landmark had been a lot more uncomfortable and invasive. And so I, I did some personal research into it. And at that point I was only like two years into mourning my mom, so I was already going through a lot of therapy. I had already done a significant amount of work and was in the process with a team that knew what I was going through of doing work. And so when they first kind of said, hey, we'd like to book you for this, it's this huge gift, you're, you've been doing so well we want to gift with this. I said, thank you so much. I really appreciate it, but based on my research, I don't think it's a good fit for me at this time. So I basically gave them my spiel about like, I'm doing the work I need to right now and I don't really feel comfortable, especially with what I've heard and read at this time. I will keep an open mind in the future. And at the time, they were sort of okay with it, but kind of in a way like, okay, well, we'll circle back in a little while.
- [34:34]
Host
Okay, that's it for the episode this week. I think we can all agree that shopping is a huge part of American lives today, for better or worse. And the cults of commercialism range far and wide, some a bit weirder than the others. It's like they say, lots of little kids can identify a zillion brand logos, but they can't tell the difference between the leaves of different trees in nature anymore. Shopping is just the stuff of our lives as far as Lululemon and shoplifting are concerned. There was an interesting story recently about how they fired two of their employees who tried to stop some guys from shoplifting in the store. This happened in Atlanta, but it became a huge national story because why would Lululemon do that? Didn't they want their employees to stop people from shoplifting their ridiculously expensive pants? Well, maybe they know their history and the way that shoplifting factored into this really sad story of two women's lives derailed. That's it for this week and this four part series. It was a lot of work, but I hope you enjoyed this fascinating tale about a store we all know, even if we don't shop there. And we'll be back next week with a whole new story. Before we go, please applaud the team that made this Sony Music and Campside Media Production. The executive producer, Natalie Robamed, the producer, Lily Houston Smith, who also reported all of these episodes. Also our assistant producer, Emma Simonoff, our studio recordist, Ewen Lai Trimuin and Amber Devereaux, our sound designer. Many thanks again for listening.