Podcast Summary: Infamous

Episode Title: Pharma Bro Martin Shkreli and a Mysterious Record Album
Date: December 4, 2025
Hosts: Vanessa Grigoriadis, Gabriel Sherman, Natalie Robehmed
Guests: Jason Leopold (Bloomberg News, host of Disclosure), Matt Topic (FOIA lawyer, host of Disclosure)

Overview

In this episode, the Infamous team dives into the world of government secrets, investigative journalism, and one of the strangest intersections of crime and hip-hop: the saga of the Wu Tang Clan's one-of-a-kind album and its infamous owner, Martin Shkreli. Guests Jason Leopold and Matt Topic join to discuss their work in exposing government secrets via FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) requests, their new podcast "Disclosure," and the wild story of how Shkreli lost the legendary Wu Tang album to government seizure. The episode also delves into the mechanics and power of FOIA, government opacity, and why investigative reporting matters.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Power and Purpose of FOIA (Freedom of Information Act)

• FOIA as a Tool for the People:
  • FOIA is a law allowing anyone—not just journalists—to request records from the government.
  • It presumes government business should be accessible, barring specific exemptions like national security or ongoing investigations.
  • Every state has its own version (public records laws, sunshine laws, open records laws).
  • Matt Topic: “It’s something that anybody can do. You don’t have to be a journalist. ... There’s accidents all the time at this intersection. Why are they not doing anything? Well, make a FOIA request and find out.” (11:29)
• Why Fight for Documents:
  • Agencies often violate response deadlines; legal action is often necessary.
  • Jason Leopold files requests with the intent to sue immediately to cut through bureaucratic foot-dragging.

Breaking Major Stories: Epstein, Shkreli, and Powerful People

• Epstein’s Email Trove

  • Jason Leopold and team accessed more than 18,000 emails from Jeffrey Epstein’s Yahoo account, revealing damning communications with powerful figures—including former British Ambassador Peter Mandelson.
  • How did they get them?
    • Jason: “That was not through FOIA... I’m gonna have to glomar it. I can neither confirm nor deny.” (12:35)
  • On handling leaks and sensitive material:
    • Measures are taken to protect victim identities and avoid retraumatization.
    • Interest in revealing government mishandling of the Epstein investigation.
    • Jason Leopold: “You need to protect the identities of victims. You don’t want to re-traumatize victims.” (13:16)
    • Matt Topic: “This shows powerful people get treated differently, which I think most people acknowledge. ... Just really seeing that, I mean, even — just especially how Epstein himself was treated and the very gracious plea agreement...This is no way to run a country.” (16:56)
  • The file’s future? A “drip, drip, drip” of incomplete, highly-redacted releases is likely.

• Elite Impunity

  • The case highlights the different treatment powerful people receive and the erosion of public trust in institutions.
  • The government’s handling of such scandals is described as “a mess, a disgrace.”

Martin Shkreli, the “Pharma Bro,” and the Wu Tang Album

• Shkreli’s Notoriety:
  • Once dubbed the “most hated man in America” for price-gouging a life-saving drug used by AIDS and cancer patients.
  • Panel agrees Shkreli’s villainy was in his unapologetic embrace of profit over patients.
  • Matt Topic: “I don’t know that he’s a hypocrite. I think he’s just blatantly open. ... That’s what capitalism is all about.” (22:13)
• Wu Tang’s ‘Once Upon a Time in Shaolin’:
  • Only one copy exists—kept in an ornate metal box, intended as both music and performance art.
  • Shkreli bought it for about $2 million.
  • After fraud conviction (unrelated to drug pricing), government seized the album to satisfy restitution.
  • Matt: “They have to go through an auction process to sell it and recover money... so that’s how they end up with a copy of it.” (26:53)

The Quest for Government Documents on the Wu Tang Album

• Jason’s FOIA Crusade:
  • Fascinated by the government’s seizure, Jason files sweeping FOIA requests for all documents about the album’s handling, with immediate intent to sue to get faster results.
  • Sought photos, the bill of sale, emails, and the buyer’s identity.
  • Jason Leopold: “I wanted to be able to report that we got the first documents. ... Also, you know, how cool is it to have a lawsuit that says... Once Upon a Time in Shaolin Wu Tang Clan. Like, that’s awesome!” (30:32)
• Revelations and Redactions:
  • Received photos of the nickel-silver box in a government conference room.
  • Song titles were redacted as "trade secrets”—even though they were public knowledge.
  • Purchase amount was redacted for years; after extended negotiations and lawsuits, finally disclosed as $2.2 million (higher than Shkreli originally claimed).
  • The entity that bought it: WTC Endeavors, which then transferred it to crypto collective PleaserDAO.
  • Jason Leopold: “It took three years—three years to get the amount. That’s how invested I was in this.” (34:21)
• Will the Album Ever Be Heard?
  • Restrictions bar public listening or broadcast for 88 years.
  • Some short clips have surfaced; lawsuit ongoing over alleged copies Shkreli may have kept.
  • Jason: “The album cannot be ... it just is hilarious ... it has to remain under sort of this strict control. ... I don’t think [a public release] will happen.” (39:42)
  • Natalie: “Of course it’s a crypto entity that bought this album. That is so of our time.” (39:06)

Behind the Scenes: Journalistic Drive and Punk FOIA

• Jason’s Backstory:
  • 27 years sober; punk, thrash metal, and alternative music lover.
  • Attributes his reporting success to building trust through authenticity, humanity, and constant contact.
  • Has over 2,000 band T-shirts; jokes about “always be filing (ABF)” FOIA requests.
  • Jason: “Every reporter has a different technique, but ultimately you need to win the trust of these folks, and they have to trust that they’re gonna be in good hands.” (07:11)
• Matt’s Approach:
  • Finds satisfaction in beating the government in court.
  • Stays calm and methodical—lets “the merits” of the case do the talking.
  • Matt Topic: “When your opponent is lying... just calmly go about your business and just eviscerate their arguments on the merits. There’s no need to jump up and down and shout.” (09:23)
• FOIA as Punk:
  • The process of uncovering secrets and challenging the machinery is likened to punk rock’s disruptive ethos.
  • Jason: “FOIA is punk.” (43:36)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On how FOIA works:
  “[Agencies] send you a letter that says, ‘Hey, it’s been a really long time. Do you still care about this?’ Which to me is like, if I didn’t pay my taxes... five years later: ‘If you’re still interested in me paying my taxes, let me know.’” — Matt Topic (32:22)
• On breaking the Wu Tang story:
  “To me, this was just such a great... request... and the kind of request that would result in many, many, many records.” — Jason Leopold (31:08)
• On the system:
  “This shows powerful people get treated differently... this just confirms that. ... This is no way to run a country.” — Matt Topic (16:56)
• On the enduring mystery:
  “To me that was... fascinating—when it ultimately ended up in Shkreli’s hands... that sort of, like, I don’t know, that diminished the value, perhaps.” — Jason Leopold (25:46)
• On journalism:
  “Always be filing, ABF, always be filing.” — Jason Leopold (41:17)
• On empowerment:
  “Think about your town.... You want to know what’s going on? ... You can do those things and increase, especially as local press has really been hit hard. It’s on you to do those things. And we want to really help people to understand how they can do that.” — Matt Topic (43:36)
• On the ethos:
  “FOIA is punk.” — Jason Leopold (43:36)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:10] Introduction to Jason Leopold and the power of FOIA
• [05:36] Jason’s backstory, music background, and journalistic philosophy
• [09:23] Matt on the legal fight for FOIA and staying calm in court
• [12:17] The Jeffrey Epstein email story (not acquired via FOIA)
• [14:28] The future of the Epstein files and government’s drip-feed of information
• [21:36] Martin Shkreli: From pharma villain to Wu Tang album owner
• [24:07] Explaining the Wu Tang album’s origins and significance
• [26:53] How the government seized and sold the album
• [29:26] The FOIA process and lawsuits to uncover government docs about the album
• [32:31] What they got from the government and what was withheld
• [36:41] Final revelations about the album’s sale ($2.2 million) and fate
• [41:17] “Always be filing” and stories from the Disclosure podcast
• [43:36] FOIA as punk; call to public empowerment

Final Thoughts

This episode masterfully blends stories of celebrity scandal (Epstein, Shkreli) with deep dives into the nitty-gritty of investigative journalism and the fight for transparency in government. The hosts and guests keep the tone lively, irreverent, and passionate—refusing to let government opacity go unchallenged, and inspiring listeners to ask questions and file their own FOIA requests. Whether discussing exploitation in Big Pharma or a priceless hip-hop artifact, Leopold and Topic underscore the power—and necessity—of always being curious and always “being punk.”