Infamous Podcast: "The Myth of Having It All"

Date: January 15, 2026
Host: Vanessa Grigoriadis (B)
Guest: Dr. Corinne Lo (D), Economist and Author of Having it: What Data Tells Us About Women’s Lives and Getting the Most out of Yours
Producer Introduction: Lily Houston Smith (C)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the concept of "having it all," a phrase often associated with modern working women attempting to balance high-powered careers, caregiving, and domestic life. Host Vanessa Grigoriadis sits down with Dr. Corinne Lo, an economist who specializes in gender and labor, to dissect why societal expectations, historical inertia, and economics make "having it all" an ironic myth. Lo provides both data and personal anecdotes to reframe how we think about time, guilt, and the value of care work. The conversation is candid, practical, and at times both funny and poignant, offering listeners a new lens for the start of 2026.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Myth and Irony of “Having It All” [02:40–04:21]

Irony of the Title: Lo explains that the concept of having it all is used ironically in her book, which depicts the chaos of modern life for women (e.g., "dinner on fire...your inbox exploding and your coffee spilled and your baby crying" [02:52]).
Workforce vs. Home Roles: While women’s roles in the workplace have expanded, men's contributions at home have not increased proportionally. "Gender roles have converged at work... but we don't see men's time at home go up." [03:21]
"Two-way Player" Dilemma: Women are expected to perform in both professional and domestic spheres, often partnered with men who do not reciprocate at home.

2. Unchanged Male Domestic Labor [06:00–06:18]

Data Insight: Despite more women working, men’s time on household chores is "flat" since the 1970s, except for a slight increase in parenting time, which nevertheless is still inequitable.
- Quote: "The time we spend with our kids has just massively increased... because it's increased more for mothers than for fathers..." [06:18]
Generational Expectations: Men compare current contributions to their own fathers, not their partners.

3. Increased Parenting Intensity [07:29–08:43]

Parenting Culture Shift: Modern parents, especially mothers, are more involved, leading to higher stress and time demands (e.g., shift from “bedroom kids” to “living-room kids”).
Cultural Humor: "The prisoners are running the asylum 100%... It's a whole...child-rearing industrial complex." [08:43]

4. Breadwinning Women and Housework [09:33–09:56]

Key Statistic: Even as women approach primary breadwinner status, the amount of domestic labor done by male partners is unchanged. "As the woman's income goes up, the man's time doing housework is just flat...he does the same amount." [09:33]
Deep Gender Coding: Tasks outsourced without guilt (car repairs, plumbing) are male-coded; outsourcing groceries or cleaning is stigmatized as "bougie." [10:22]

5. Rethinking Labor, Outsourcing, and Guilt [10:22–12:29]

Reframing Outsourcing: Lo argues that outsourcing should be viewed similarly across tasks, regardless of gender coding, and our guilt is rooted in undervaluing women's time.
- Memorable Analogy: "If you were hiring yourself as a freelancer...are you hiring yourself for too many jobs?" [10:22]
Limits of the Time Basket: Modern mothers perform new parenting tasks (breastfeeding, travel sports, bedtime rituals) while retaining old expectations, leading to overload.

6. The “Second Shift” and “Third Shift”: Care for Aging Parents [15:00–17:45]

Sandwich Generation Reality: Grigoriadis introduces the idea of a “third shift” added to parenting and career—caring for aging parents simultaneously with young children. [15:00]
Structural & Demographic Shifts: Aging populations and delayed childbearing mean caregiving for both children and parents often overlaps, stretching women universally thin.
- Quote: "I literally say, throw out your houseplants... You might even have to let go of holiday decorations..." [18:36]

7. The Cost of Caregiving on Women’s Careers [18:10–21:04]

Workforce Squeeze: Many women reduce or leave employment due to impossible care demands, but Lo clarifies she doesn't advocate leaving jobs, but encourages viewing work as a tool.
- Quote: "Why would that be the solution? But what I advocate is to think of your job as a technology to convert your time into money." [21:04]
Lean In Critique: Lo critiques the "lean in" philosophy as a boss’s agenda: "Lean in sounds like it was written by your boss. And...Sheryl Sandberg is your boss." [21:01]
Utility Over Maximizing Career: The goal is to maximize "the sum total of our joy, fulfillment, and contentment over our lifetimes," not just career progression. [21:04–24:23]

8. Redefining Caregiving and Value [24:23–29:22]

Language Matters: Grigoriadis wishes for more nuanced language, preferring “producer” or “manager” to “caregiver.”
- Quote: "I'm the producer. I'm the manager. You know, what's a better way of talking about caregiving...?" [24:23]
Economic Value of Care: Lo reframes care labor as economic value: "You're producing economic value for yourself because you get meaning...and for [your parent], because her life works better." [25:05]
Meaning vs. Happiness: Utility, not happiness, is the true reward of caregiving, especially when the work is "profoundly meaningful but not joyful." [27:30]

9. Social Policy, Labor Markets, and the Future [29:24–31:49]

Structural Barriers: Society’s design (nuclear family model, geographic separation, lack of paid care) exacerbates individual burdens.
Care Economy and AI: With demographic shifts and AI advancement, the care work sector is poised for growth—but needs to be better compensated.
- Quote: "Home health aides...is a actually very...quickly growing job. And yeah, I would like to see us as an economy value them more." [31:49]

10. Personal Choices and LGBTQ+ Family Dynamics [32:44–36:16]

Lo’s Story: After divorcing her husband (partly due to unequal labor), she now co-parents with her wife.
- Quote: "I joke that it was an evidence based decision, but importantly, that's a joke..." [33:09]
Division by Preference, Not Gender: In a same-sex partnership, tasks are divided by skills and preference, not gender: "She does more of the cleaning ‘cause she cares more...I do more of the cooking because I care more." [35:35]
Even so, the squeeze persists: Two careers, two kids, an ailing parent. "It's still just really freaking hard to juggle it all." [36:16]

11. Balancing Family, Work, and the End of Life [36:16–39:18]

Economic Rationality: Prioritize meaningful memories rather than delay engagement or ignore finite opportunities.
- Quote: "This period will eventually pass, right? Your parents will be dead and you will be grateful for the plane ticket that you bought..." [36:55]
Smoothing Time and Money Use: Don’t wait for a crisis to spend time/money on loved ones—plan and prioritize throughout life for maximum meaning.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote & Attribution | |------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:52 | "Having it all is sort of too much. And the reason it's too much is...gender roles have changed in the workforce and… not at home." — Dr. Corinne Lo | | 06:18 | "As more women begin working...the amount of time that the men spend...has not increased since the 70s." — Vanessa Grigoriadis | | 09:33 | "As the woman's income goes up, the man's time doing housework is just flat." — Dr. Corinne Lo | | 10:22 | "If you were hiring yourself as a freelancer...are you hiring yourself for too many jobs?" — Dr. Corinne Lo | | 13:25 | "All of these new things can't fit in there with all of those old things and we might need to take something out." — Dr. Corinne Lo | | 21:01 | "Lean in sounds like it was written by your boss...Sheryl Sandberg is your boss." — Dr. Corinne Lo | | 25:38 | "You can be productive through care labor...and that care labor can be particularly meaningful..." — Dr. Corinne Lo | | 27:30 | "Sometimes we do things that absolutely do not feel happy or joyful, but they serve our values." — Dr. Corinne Lo | | 31:49 | "Home health aides...is actually a very, you know, quickly growing job. And yeah, I would like to see us as an economy value them more." — Dr. Corinne Lo | | 33:09 | "I joke that it was an evidence based decision...but his expectation was still like 50, 50. And that's 5050 of the visible tasks." — Dr. Corinne Lo | | 39:18 | "Your message is also like really positive...your life is about creating meaning making moments." — Vanessa Grigoriadis |

Timestamps for Major Segments

Opening and Episode Context: [00:32–02:34]
Introduction to Dr. Corinne Lo and “Having It All”: [02:34–04:21]
Data & Gendered Labor Dynamics: [04:21–10:22]
Parenting, Caregiving, and Societal Pressure: [10:22–13:25]
The Sandwich Generation & Workforce Impacts: [15:00–21:04]
Reframing Jobs and Career Utility: [21:04–24:23]
Redefining Care, Value, and Language: [24:23–29:22]
Policy & Future of Care Work: [29:24–31:49]
Personal Stories & Queer Family Strategies: [32:44–36:16]
End-of-Life Logic, Rationality & Memory Making: [36:16–39:18]
Closing Reflections & Final Thoughts: [39:18–40:17]

Episode Tone and Language

Warm, Candid, and Pragmatic: Both Grigoriadis and Lo engage with humor and deep empathy, using personal anecdotes balanced with hard data.
Direct and Unsentimental: Lo brings an "economist's rationality" to emotional territory—often to clarifying or surprising effect.
Critical of Societal Structures: Both speakers critique capitalist and patriarchal frameworks, but offer agency-focused responses.

Useful for Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This episode clarifies why the dream of "having it all"—juggling high-level career, caregiving, and domestic perfection—is both historically and structurally infeasible for most women.
It reframes conversations about outsourcing, guilt, and time, encouraging listeners to reprioritize meaning and agency over impossible standards.
Personal stories from both the host and Dr. Lo underscore the emotional stakes and prevalence of these issues, making the data come to life.
Practical advice is woven throughout, from reconsidering outsourcing decisions to giving oneself permission to prioritize joy, meaning, and rational trade-offs during life’s squeeze periods.

Infamous Podcast: "The Myth of Having It All"

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Myth and Irony of “Having It All” [02:40–04:21]

Irony of the Title: Lo explains that the concept of having it all is used ironically in her book, which depicts the chaos of modern life for women (e.g., "dinner on fire...your inbox exploding and your coffee spilled and your baby crying" [02:52]).
Workforce vs. Home Roles: While women’s roles in the workplace have expanded, men's contributions at home have not increased proportionally. "Gender roles have converged at work... but we don't see men's time at home go up." [03:21]
"Two-way Player" Dilemma: Women are expected to perform in both professional and domestic spheres, often partnered with men who do not reciprocate at home.

2. Unchanged Male Domestic Labor [06:00–06:18]

Data Insight: Despite more women working, men’s time on household chores is "flat" since the 1970s, except for a slight increase in parenting time, which nevertheless is still inequitable.
- Quote: "The time we spend with our kids has just massively increased... because it's increased more for mothers than for fathers..." [06:18]
Generational Expectations: Men compare current contributions to their own fathers, not their partners.

3. Increased Parenting Intensity [07:29–08:43]

Parenting Culture Shift: Modern parents, especially mothers, are more involved, leading to higher stress and time demands (e.g., shift from “bedroom kids” to “living-room kids”).
Cultural Humor: "The prisoners are running the asylum 100%... It's a whole...child-rearing industrial complex." [08:43]

4. Breadwinning Women and Housework [09:33–09:56]

Key Statistic: Even as women approach primary breadwinner status, the amount of domestic labor done by male partners is unchanged. "As the woman's income goes up, the man's time doing housework is just flat...he does the same amount." [09:33]
Deep Gender Coding: Tasks outsourced without guilt (car repairs, plumbing) are male-coded; outsourcing groceries or cleaning is stigmatized as "bougie." [10:22]

5. Rethinking Labor, Outsourcing, and Guilt [10:22–12:29]

Reframing Outsourcing: Lo argues that outsourcing should be viewed similarly across tasks, regardless of gender coding, and our guilt is rooted in undervaluing women's time.
- Memorable Analogy: "If you were hiring yourself as a freelancer...are you hiring yourself for too many jobs?" [10:22]
Limits of the Time Basket: Modern mothers perform new parenting tasks (breastfeeding, travel sports, bedtime rituals) while retaining old expectations, leading to overload.

6. The “Second Shift” and “Third Shift”: Care for Aging Parents [15:00–17:45]

Sandwich Generation Reality: Grigoriadis introduces the idea of a “third shift” added to parenting and career—caring for aging parents simultaneously with young children. [15:00]
Structural & Demographic Shifts: Aging populations and delayed childbearing mean caregiving for both children and parents often overlaps, stretching women universally thin.
- Quote: "I literally say, throw out your houseplants... You might even have to let go of holiday decorations..." [18:36]

7. The Cost of Caregiving on Women’s Careers [18:10–21:04]

Workforce Squeeze: Many women reduce or leave employment due to impossible care demands, but Lo clarifies she doesn't advocate leaving jobs, but encourages viewing work as a tool.
- Quote: "Why would that be the solution? But what I advocate is to think of your job as a technology to convert your time into money." [21:04]
Lean In Critique: Lo critiques the "lean in" philosophy as a boss’s agenda: "Lean in sounds like it was written by your boss. And...Sheryl Sandberg is your boss." [21:01]
Utility Over Maximizing Career: The goal is to maximize "the sum total of our joy, fulfillment, and contentment over our lifetimes," not just career progression. [21:04–24:23]

8. Redefining Caregiving and Value [24:23–29:22]

Language Matters: Grigoriadis wishes for more nuanced language, preferring “producer” or “manager” to “caregiver.”
- Quote: "I'm the producer. I'm the manager. You know, what's a better way of talking about caregiving...?" [24:23]
Economic Value of Care: Lo reframes care labor as economic value: "You're producing economic value for yourself because you get meaning...and for [your parent], because her life works better." [25:05]
Meaning vs. Happiness: Utility, not happiness, is the true reward of caregiving, especially when the work is "profoundly meaningful but not joyful." [27:30]

9. Social Policy, Labor Markets, and the Future [29:24–31:49]

Structural Barriers: Society’s design (nuclear family model, geographic separation, lack of paid care) exacerbates individual burdens.
Care Economy and AI: With demographic shifts and AI advancement, the care work sector is poised for growth—but needs to be better compensated.
- Quote: "Home health aides...is a actually very...quickly growing job. And yeah, I would like to see us as an economy value them more." [31:49]

10. Personal Choices and LGBTQ+ Family Dynamics [32:44–36:16]

Lo’s Story: After divorcing her husband (partly due to unequal labor), she now co-parents with her wife.
- Quote: "I joke that it was an evidence based decision, but importantly, that's a joke..." [33:09]
Division by Preference, Not Gender: In a same-sex partnership, tasks are divided by skills and preference, not gender: "She does more of the cleaning ‘cause she cares more...I do more of the cooking because I care more." [35:35]
Even so, the squeeze persists: Two careers, two kids, an ailing parent. "It's still just really freaking hard to juggle it all." [36:16]

11. Balancing Family, Work, and the End of Life [36:16–39:18]

Economic Rationality: Prioritize meaningful memories rather than delay engagement or ignore finite opportunities.
- Quote: "This period will eventually pass, right? Your parents will be dead and you will be grateful for the plane ticket that you bought..." [36:55]
Smoothing Time and Money Use: Don’t wait for a crisis to spend time/money on loved ones—plan and prioritize throughout life for maximum meaning.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Major Segments

Opening and Episode Context: [00:32–02:34]
Introduction to Dr. Corinne Lo and “Having It All”: [02:34–04:21]
Data & Gendered Labor Dynamics: [04:21–10:22]
Parenting, Caregiving, and Societal Pressure: [10:22–13:25]
The Sandwich Generation & Workforce Impacts: [15:00–21:04]
Reframing Jobs and Career Utility: [21:04–24:23]
Redefining Care, Value, and Language: [24:23–29:22]
Policy & Future of Care Work: [29:24–31:49]
Personal Stories & Queer Family Strategies: [32:44–36:16]
End-of-Life Logic, Rationality & Memory Making: [36:16–39:18]
Closing Reflections & Final Thoughts: [39:18–40:17]

Episode Tone and Language

Warm, Candid, and Pragmatic: Both Grigoriadis and Lo engage with humor and deep empathy, using personal anecdotes balanced with hard data.
Direct and Unsentimental: Lo brings an "economist's rationality" to emotional territory—often to clarifying or surprising effect.
Critical of Societal Structures: Both speakers critique capitalist and patriarchal frameworks, but offer agency-focused responses.

Useful for Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This episode clarifies why the dream of "having it all"—juggling high-level career, caregiving, and domestic perfection—is both historically and structurally infeasible for most women.
It reframes conversations about outsourcing, guilt, and time, encouraging listeners to reprioritize meaning and agency over impossible standards.
Personal stories from both the host and Dr. Lo underscore the emotional stakes and prevalence of these issues, making the data come to life.
Practical advice is woven throughout, from reconsidering outsourcing decisions to giving oneself permission to prioritize joy, meaning, and rational trade-offs during life’s squeeze periods.

The Myth of Having It All

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Summary

Infamous Podcast: "The Myth of Having It All"

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Myth and Irony of “Having It All” [02:40–04:21]

2. Unchanged Male Domestic Labor [06:00–06:18]

3. Increased Parenting Intensity [07:29–08:43]

4. Breadwinning Women and Housework [09:33–09:56]

5. Rethinking Labor, Outsourcing, and Guilt [10:22–12:29]

6. The “Second Shift” and “Third Shift”: Care for Aging Parents [15:00–17:45]

7. The Cost of Caregiving on Women’s Careers [18:10–21:04]

8. Redefining Caregiving and Value [24:23–29:22]

9. Social Policy, Labor Markets, and the Future [29:24–31:49]

10. Personal Choices and LGBTQ+ Family Dynamics [32:44–36:16]

11. Balancing Family, Work, and the End of Life [36:16–39:18]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Major Segments

Episode Tone and Language

Useful for Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

Further Reading & Resources

Summary

Infamous Podcast: "The Myth of Having It All"

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Myth and Irony of “Having It All” [02:40–04:21]

2. Unchanged Male Domestic Labor [06:00–06:18]

3. Increased Parenting Intensity [07:29–08:43]

4. Breadwinning Women and Housework [09:33–09:56]

5. Rethinking Labor, Outsourcing, and Guilt [10:22–12:29]

6. The “Second Shift” and “Third Shift”: Care for Aging Parents [15:00–17:45]

7. The Cost of Caregiving on Women’s Careers [18:10–21:04]

8. Redefining Caregiving and Value [24:23–29:22]

9. Social Policy, Labor Markets, and the Future [29:24–31:49]

10. Personal Choices and LGBTQ+ Family Dynamics [32:44–36:16]

11. Balancing Family, Work, and the End of Life [36:16–39:18]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Major Segments

Episode Tone and Language

Useful for Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

Further Reading & Resources