The Rich Utah Wives and Their Scams | Part 3

Summary

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Infamous Podcast: "The Rich Utah Wives and Their Scams | Part 3"

Date: April 23, 2026
Hosts: Vanessa Grigoriadis, Gabriel Sherman, Natalie Robehmed
Guests/Experts: Kate Arthur (Variety), Ceci & Angela Angadi (The Bravo Docket), Molly McLaughlin (Scam victim), Bridget (Scam victim)

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Episode Overview

In this gripping installment, the hosts untangle the events and consequences surrounding the fraud scandal involving "Real Housewives of Salt Lake City" star Jen Shah. The episode deftly balances two narratives: the elaborate telemarketing scheme and its devastating impact on victims, and how the Bravo reality show transformed a real criminal case into pop culture spectacle. Reporter interviews, legal breakdowns, and firsthand accounts provide a layered look at the crime, media fascination, and what ultimately led to Jen Shah’s downfall.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Victims’ Stories: Molly and Bridget

Firsthand experiences of being ensnared in telemarketing and e-commerce scams orchestrated by Jen Shah and associates.

• Molly McLaughlin’s Ordeal

  • Molly, from rural Iowa, needed extra income and responded to an ad for a drop-shipping business.
  • She ended up spending over $30,000 for a non-existent clocks and mirrors business and additional money on fraudulent “recovery” services.
  • Molly realized too late that she was caught in an intricate and "vertically integrated" scam network.
  • After bankruptcy and hardship, she was finally contacted by the FTC, validating her experience and participation as a victim.
  • Quote: "I said, oh, I don't have enough on this card. And they said, oh, use two. That's heavily what they encouraged." (03:34, Molly McLaughlin)

• Bridget’s Involvement

  • Bridget also fell victim to similar schemes, later receiving a call from Homeland Security to testify as a witness.
  • She struggled emotionally at the prospect of being the first trial witness and ultimately learned Shah had taken a plea deal just before her testimony.
  • Quote: "I want to back out. I don't want to go through with it. But then I had to pull myself together." (26:53, Bridget)

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2. Understanding the Scam’s Scope

The mechanics and sophistication of the telemarketing fraud that ensnared thousands.

• The operation involved multiple fake services: sales, marketing, and “money-back” recovery, all to squeeze as much money from victims as possible.
• The scam was so big it involved multiple agencies—NYPD, Homeland Security, and the Southern District of New York.
• Quote: "This scam seems to have been incredibly vertically integrated... set up to maximize profit, to get as much out of the victims as possible at every turn." (04:57, Narrator)

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3. The Bravo Effect: Reality TV Meets True Crime

A deep dive with TV critic Kate Arthur into how Jen Shah’s arrest played out on-screen and within Bravo culture.

• The "Real Housewives of Salt Lake City" stood out for its focus on religion and unique scandals.
• Jen’s arrest played out in real time on the show, elevating it to a “Where were you when JFK was shot?” TV moment.
• The Bravo cast, instead of distancing themselves, often stuck by Jen, adding complexity to the court of public opinion.
• Quote: "It was just this really fascinating combination of an incredibly serious situation being presented in like reality TV fodder..." (13:58, Natalie Roberman)

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4. Legal Analysis: The Case Against Jen Shah

Lawyers Ceci and Angela from "The Bravo Docket" walk through the investigation and legal strategy.

• The federal case was years in the making, with substantial evidence and multiple co-defendants already convicted.
• Jen attempted several legal maneuvers, including contesting her Miranda rights (claiming poor eyesight), and challenging details in the indictment—all denied.
• She continued to protest her innocence on social media, by selling "Free Jen Shah" merch, and on television.
• Quote: "They said that they had been investigating this for 10 years prior. So you could just tell everything was pointing to this being a big deal and probably leading to a conviction just based on what was in the press release." (16:11, Ceci)

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5. Turning Point: Plea Deal and Aftermath

How and why Jen Shah ultimately pled guilty, with analyses and theories about timing and motivation.

• Just before trial, with co-conspirators ready to testify, Jen pled guilty to conspiracy to commit wire fraud. The second count, money laundering, was dropped.
• The hosts speculate about “morality clauses” in Bravo contracts—whether Jen waited to plea so she could get paid for every episode.
• After the plea, Jen even attended a cast party, showing no evident remorse or withdrawal from public life.
• Oprah-like speculation follows about Jen’s psyche and what kept her both on the show and in the scam until the very end.
• Quote: "We are theorizing if she had pled guilty beforehand. So she waited, got all of the money, income, everything that she could, and then at the 11th hour, pled guilty." (31:10, Angela Angadi)

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6. Reality Blurs: Aftermath and Incarceration

The surreal coda: Jen Shah in prison with Elizabeth Holmes (Theranos) and Ghislaine Maxwell.

• Jen enters prison unfazed, reportedly associating with other infamous women.
• Reflecting on what drives someone to keep scamming and to keep performing for cameras.
• Quote: "What would make someone do this and what would make someone go on the TV show are the exact same. It's this confidence that you think that you can get away with it." (32:44, Ceci)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I thought, everyone needs a clock, everyone needs a mirror, so there's a good idea, you know." (02:53, Molly McLaughlin)
• "It's like the most important documentary project that any US Media has embarked on... chronicled the lives of women... in various states of duress." (08:39, Kate Arthur)
• "Jen could not get it out of her mind... that Meredith was the one who had reported her to the Feds." (13:04, Kate Arthur)
• "She starts selling merch: She was selling free Jen Shaw T-shirts." (18:52, Ceci)
• "I remember the day after the paperwork was filed, I said, I hear silence..." (22:11, Molly McLaughlin)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Victim Story: Molly McLaughlin’s Scam Journey — 01:16 – 06:39
• Bravo, Housewives & The Culture of Scandal (Kate Arthur) — 07:38 – 13:56
• On-Screen Fallout & Cast Reactions — 13:56 – 15:25
• Legal Analysis & Jen’s Response — 15:34 – 19:15
• Victims’ Fallout (Bankruptcy, FTC Calls) — 21:15 – 23:14
• Bridget Preparing as Witness, Jen’s Plea — 25:17 – 28:31
• Theories on Plea Timing, Reality TV Economics — 30:05 – 31:10
• Aftermath: Jen in Prison, Final Thoughts — 31:32 – 32:44

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Tone & Style

The episode balances matter-of-fact legal analysis, empathetic victim storytelling, and the cheeky, sharp-edged commentary that Bravo and reality TV encourage. The tone is wry and at times incredulous, weaving the serious human consequences of fraud with the slightly surreal world of reality television stardom and scandal.

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Final Thoughts

This episode expertly connects the dots between criminal behavior, reality TV spectacle, and the devastating impact on everyday people. By following both the paper trail and the emotional fallout, "Infamous" creates a compelling cautionary tale about the blurred lines between entertainment and real-life harm.

Transcript

[Narrator]

What they did to your family. You're lucky to make it out alive.

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Streaming on Peacock.

[Natalie Roberman]

These men are going to come after me.

[Molly McLaughlin]

Taking them out.

[Angela Angadi]

It's my only chance.

[Kate Arthur]

Put a bullet in her head.

[Narrator]

From the co creator of Ozark.

[Molly McLaughlin]

Looks like a family was running drugs.

[Peacock Advertiser]

Execution style killing, it's rare for the Keys.

[Bridget]

Any leads on who they might have been running for?

[Narrator]

The cartel killed my family.

[Ceci]

I'm gonna kill them.

[Natalie Roberman]

All of them.

[Peacock Advertiser]

MIA Streaming now only on Peacock

[Ceci]

Campsite Media.

[Narrator]

So a wide ranging fraud case has been built by authorities. It wasn't just Jen Shaw. There were about a dozen other people charged in the case and it was a multi agency operation to bring them down. Sure, Jen's co defendants weren't Utah housewives, but they were running a really huge endeavor with thousands of alleged victims. It wasn't just Bridget. We spoke with another victim whose story felt eerily similar. Her name's Molly McLaughlin and she has blue eyes, reddish auburn hair. And when Natalie's talking to her she's at her home in rural Iowa.

[Molly McLaughlin]

We are by the Mississippi river so we basically share a border with Illinois. If I go about 20 minutes I will be in Illinois at my parents house. There was one time a person nearby must have been a farmer. They were trying to wean a baby cow so I could hear it kind of mooing for its mother. So I was like yeah, we're kind of in farm country.

[Narrator]

Back in 2016, Molly was looking for work. She had a part time job as a sales associate at a local store. But she wanted to make more money.

[Molly McLaughlin]

I hadn't had much luck really finding jobs, at least in my area. I was struggling to make rent so I just was looking online. I knew that there were legitimate work from home jobs. I was googling. I was searching for things and I don't remember what website it was, but I do remember seeing an ad for something called drop shipping.

[Narrator]

Drop shipping? You sell your stuff on your own website, then you use another business to fulfill and ship your orders. Molly says she paid $100 or so to get an informational kit on dropshipping. Then the next day she got a phone call.

[Molly McLaughlin]

I said have you thought about really starting your own online business?

[Kate Arthur]

Oh yeah.

[Molly McLaughlin]

You know, we'll get you on the front page of Google and you can make all of this money.

[Narrator]

I think you know where this is going. Molly says she handed over $10,000 to this company to build a website. She took the classes how to run a successful online store.

[Molly McLaughlin]

I ended up landing on clocks and Mirrors.

[Narrator]

Selling clocks and mirrors.

[Molly McLaughlin]

Because I thought, everyone needs a clock, everyone needs a mirror, so there's a good idea, you know. Then I started getting phone calls from, I assume, people who were affiliated with them. And they were companies that wanted to help, like, with certain parts. Like, one was more with marketing and how they can make it shine. I do remember one of the companies talked about how, oh, yeah, you need. Need to have like a weekly blog and blah, blah, blah, and we can help write the blogs.

[Narrator]

Molly signed up for more services, spreading the costs across her credit cards.

[Molly McLaughlin]

And that's one thing they encouraged, you know, put it on multiple cards to pay. I said, oh, I don't have enough on this card. And they said, oh, use two. That's heavily what they encouraged. Opening up new cards in order to pay for it all in.

[Narrator]

After about three months, Molly says she put in more than $30,000 to this clocks and mirrors business. But her website never even went up and running. And yet she's still getting calls.

[Molly McLaughlin]

Sometimes I would get two calls a day because. And it started to register with me, hey, these guys are working together. They know each other. Your information is being passed around. I had a few people telling me this, and finally it clicked. And I started realizing this is not anything legit, like, this is a scam. But of course, by then I was already thousands of dollars in debt with nothing to show for it.

[Narrator]

Then Molly gets another call from someone who seems like a lifesaver.

[Molly McLaughlin]

I had gotten a call. They said, and we work with people to get their money back. And I found out later that, yeah, they were part of the scam too, in a way.

[Narrator]

This scam seems to have been incredibly vertically integrated, which is something I don't think people understand. It appears to have been set up to maximize profit, to get as much out of the victims as possible at every turn. Passing victims on and on to different services, including ones that purport started to help them.

[Molly McLaughlin]

They were promising to help kind of take the company down, get your money refunded to you have it be reported that these companies are scamming people.

[Narrator]

Having already been burned, Molly looks up this new company online.

[Molly McLaughlin]

There really wasn't much on their website. It was just, you know, this is what we are. No testimonials on this one. It just kind of seemed very stark and clean.

[Narrator]

The company has a legit name. Name sounds pretty similar to a name brand insurance company. Exactly the kind of company that you might trust.

[Molly McLaughlin]

So I thought, well, this sounds great. And here's the kicker. I had to shell out more money for them. I believe it was about $8,000. If I remember correctly, paying eight grand

[Narrator]

to get buck 30 seems worthwhile. In fact, she's so grateful for what this company says they're going to do for her that she actually sits down to write them a Christmas card.

[Molly McLaughlin]

I thought, oh, they're going to help me, so I'm going to send them a Christmas card. I think it was just good tidings, blah, blah, blah. And then I said something like, you know, thank you for all of your help with this.

[Narrator]

From sony music entertainment and campside media, this is infamous friends. I'm vanessa grigoriadis.

[Natalie Roberman]

And I'm natalie roberman. So last episode, we dove into Jen Shah's backstory and her alleged role in the telemarketing scheme. This episode, we're going to talk about what happened when the news finally broke.

[Narrator]

By March 2021, the feds were closing in on Jen Shaw. But at home, the Bravo watchers had no idea her show was just a monumental hit at this point. The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. It was phenomenal. Kate Arthur, an editor at large at Variety, is pretty much an expert on the whole Real Housewives franchise. We're going to talk to her for a moment about the show in general and why it got so popular. Before we get back to Jen's story,

[Kate Arthur]

the Real Housewives franchise is turning 20 this year. Real Housewives of Orange county premiered in March 2006. And I have been watching since March 2006, so I remember getting a screener. So, yes, I am a watcher.

[Narrator]

Natalie talked to her about its beginnings.

[Natalie Roberman]

This show was inspired by Desperate Housewives, and the basic premise was were following these rich women around while they live their crazy lives.

[Kate Arthur]

Yes. In the same way that Laguna beach on MTV was inspired by the popularity of the OC Bravo decided to make a reality version of Desperate Housewives, and, boy, so, yeah, they succeeded. I'll say. I mean, the show itself went through periods of adjustment as they figured out what it was. At first, it was kind of a loosely improvised, more curb your enthusiasm type. What is the tone of this? But, I mean, to me, it's like the most important documentary project that any US Media has embarked on. It's chronicled the lives of women in various parts of the country since 2006 in various states of duress, I would say.

[Natalie Roberman]

Wait, why do you think it's the most important documentary project?

[Kate Arthur]

Well, it's. It's like Michael Apted's 7Up series, you know, I mean, it's it's shown women as they head toward divorce and divorce. It's shown women after their partners die. It's shown women in various states of economic pressure. People have declared bankruptcy. There was a famous instance where someone from the Real Housewives of Orange county who was about to go bankrupt, her teenage daughter was served foreclosure. Papers on camera as we've mentioned, Real

[Narrator]

Housewives of Salt Lake City was different. It featured religion front and center.

[Kate Arthur]

Two of the members of the cast were in the process of leaving the Mormon Church. Heather Gay, who was leaving the Mormon Church, having grown up in it in a very prominent Mormon family. And she also married into a very prominent Mormon family. She had a special in the fall that aired on Bravo called Surviving Mormonism where she concluded that Mormonism is a cult.

[Natalie Roberman]

And we also have to mention Mary Cosby, who is one of the other main cast members, has been on pretty much every season, who has her own church that TLC recently did a documentary about.

[Kate Arthur]

Yes.

[Natalie Roberman]

And is married to her grandfather, Stephen.

[Ceci]

Yes.

[Natalie Roberman]

Step grandfather. Excuse me, married to her step grandfather. That's a very important difference.

[Kate Arthur]

There's a cast member named Meredith Marks who we haven't mentioned yet. She had a son. She has a son still who was in college at the time. And Jen decided to just say homophobic things about him on Twitter. A lot of them. I don't know what was happening. Brooks is now an out gay man, but at the time it was attacking the child of one of her castmates and being homophobic about him. And that became a plot point later between her and Meredith and Brooks actually, he sat down with her, I think.

[Natalie Roberman]

I don't even know how to articulate

[Molly McLaughlin]

the pain that I went through because

[Stassi Schroeder]

of everything I would never want you to feel. I somehow outed you.

[Narrator]

So a lot is happening this season that's crazy. But of course, the craziest moment of all is the one we started this series with. The Real Housewives are in a sprinter van and they're waiting to go to Vail, Colorado, when officers surround the van looking for Jen Shaw.

[Molly McLaughlin]

What's going on? We have to just talk to her to make sure she's okay.

[Kate Arthur]

I mean, this was one of these where were you when Kennedy was shot? Moments for me.

[Narrator]

Kate reported on the events that day.

[Kate Arthur]

The headline is, Jen Shaw from the Real House says Salt Lake City has been arrested for fraud. The charges allege that from 2012 until today, Shaw, Smith and others ran a telemarketing scheme that defrauded older people by selling, quote, lead Lists for non existent business opportunities. And then I get into the Department of Justice press release.

[Narrator]

The Real Housewives who are huddled inside the van are reading the news too.

[Molly McLaughlin]

What?

[Kate Arthur]

Oh, my gosh.

[Molly McLaughlin]

What?

[Kate Arthur]

Real Housewives STAR CHARGED IN MASSIVE FRAUD

[Molly McLaughlin]

MONEY LAUNDERING Scheme No.

[Narrator]

I have the chills.

[Molly McLaughlin]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Angela Angadi]

Holy.

[Kate Arthur]

Since they're from Utah, they are familiar with fraud in a way that say more about that? Well, I mean, it's the home of the mlm, right? Whitney Rose, who Wives. She and her husband met when they were both working at an mlm. They speak with an authority on this that say, I would not have.

[Natalie Roberman]

Yeah.

[Kate Arthur]

And then by the time they get to Vail, that was when Meredith is like waiting for them. And the tub. Yes, exactly.

[Natalie Roberman]

She's in the tub.

[Kate Arthur]

And at a certain point, this is Meredith Marks, who Jen had thrown the $80,000 party for her. But by this time, they're enemies. And Meredith is waiting in a tub. She loves a tub. And Jen decided later that maybe Meredith was the one who had reported her to the Feds. Which doesn't make sense because these investigations, they take years and years and years. But Jen could not get it out of her mind.

[Natalie Roberman]

Yeah, you see all these women reacting to it and then kind of piling on. And some of my favorite little claims were Meredith alleging that Jen Shaw was red flagged at Louis Vuitton for paying in cash. Lisa Barlow, you know, who's another of the cast members. She immediately gets on the phone with all her lawyers, her six lawyers or

[Bridget]

whatever, famously calls them all.

[Natalie Roberman]

But she has this great quote where you just hear her go. I mean, this is just not awesome. It's just this really fascinating combination of an incredibly serious situation being presented in like reality TV fodder with all the backdrop and the music and everything else. And the woman in a bath.

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[Natalie Roberman]

Even though Jen's arrest was packaged and consumed as entertainment, this was not a stage storyline. It was Jen's real life.

[Ceci]

It was a federal criminal investigation out of the Southern District of New York. And when the Southern District of New York strikes, they're not going to miss. This was a huge deal. So I'm Ceci. I'm one of the co hosts of the Bravo docket, and I'm an entertainment

[Angela Angadi]

litigator, and I am Angela Angadi. I am also a co host of the Bravo docket, and I do product liability defense.

[Natalie Roberman]

Angela and Ceci are two lawyers who host a podcast that dives into Bravo Liberty legal disputes. When they saw the press release and read the indictment detailing all the allegations against Jen, they knew straight away that it was serious.

[Ceci]

We knew right then that they had significant evidence. They said that they had been investigating this for 10 years prior. So you could just tell everything was pointing to this being a big deal and probably leading to a conviction just based on what was in the press release.

[Natalie Roberman]

Jem was arrested in Utah, but it was confusing to some viewers and even some of the housewives why the officers arresting her were from the NYPD and Department of Homeland Security. Angela explains why that happened.

[Angela Angadi]

She had been working out of an office in Manhattan where they had had one of these call centers or whatever. So that made sense that the NYPD would be investigating that. And then they didn't really get into this with Jen Shaw, but there were ties to overseas accounts and overseas activity, which I think would involve the Department of Homeland Security as far as having the ability to sort of investigate those foreign assets. So that made sense.

[Natalie Roberman]

You would think that after her arrest, Jen might stop filming, go quiet, stay out of the public eye for a while, but not Jen.

[Kate Arthur]

I mean, this was during the filming of season two when she was arrested, and she filmed all of season three. And her tagline was, the only thing

[Stassi Schroeder]

I'm guilty of is being shamazing throughout

[Natalie Roberman]

seasons two and three. Well, after she's been arrested, Jen shoots scenes in which she protests her innocence.

[Molly McLaughlin]

I'm fighting this. She's fighting this. I am innocent, and I will fight for every person out there. They can't fight for themselves because they don't have the resources or the means. So they. They don't fight. I will fight because, number one, I'm innocent, and number two, I'm gonna represent every other person out there that can't fight and hasn't been able to.

[Natalie Roberman]

Jen also takes legal action in emotion.

[Ceci]

She argued that anything she said during her arrest should be precluded from being presented to the jury because she claims that when she was read her Miranda rights or when she was given the paper, she claims that she didn't have her contact lenses that day so she couldn't read it properly. So they didn't accurately get her to waive her Miranda rights and then such that anything that she said during her arrest couldn't be shown to the jury. And I think that was denied.

[Natalie Roberman]

That wasn't all.

[Ceci]

She filed a motion to dismiss and she was arguing things like that. They didn't put that she had the specific intent to defraud people. She challenged the fact that some people didn't have computers. That was written in the indictment. She was just trying to attack the indictment and what was in there and then later attack the evidence.

[Natalie Roberman]

Gen takes it one step further. She starts selling merch.

[Ceci]

She was selling free Jen Shaw T shirts.

[Angela Angadi]

Yes.

[Ceci]

She was not over maintaining her innocence. She was trying to profit off of her innocence. Her claimed innocence.

[Kate Arthur]

The whole season she was just saying, I didn't do this. You know, I'm gonna mount a vigorous defense.

[Natalie Roberman]

Now, you might expect in a show like Real Housewives, where the women turn on each other over the smallest slide, that Jen's fellow cast members might ditch her immediately, given her federal fraud suit. But not so, says Kate.

[Kate Arthur]

It was interesting watching it play out, but the women should have immediately said, this is disgusting and I want nothing to do with this person. But they did not do that. And the whole time, a bunch of them stuck by her.

[Natalie Roberman]

And what's even more interesting to me is that Jen didn't start magically behaving better.

[Kate Arthur]

So during season three, when Jen was claiming her innocence the entire time, they couldn't leave the country for a trip because she was under federal indictment. So they took a glamorous trip to San Diego as a cast and got wasted every night and like they do. And there was a night when the next morning, Heather emerged from her room with a black eye. No one knows what happened. And Heather claims not to remember. And. And this got Heather in quite a bit of trouble. But later she said that she's pretty sure that while in a blackout state that Jen punched her. She honestly seems not to know, or at least. And Whitney Rose was like, jen punched her, you know, so. But how did that happen? Like why were the cameras down, for God's sakes? Yeah, I mean, that's an act of violence.

[Natalie Roberman]

It just seemed so odd, so completely strange for Jen to choose to keep being on camera when at the same time the authorities have built this really intense case against Jen and her co defendants because horrible things have happened to victims of scams like this, like Molly McLaughlin, who you heard from at the top of this episode.

[Molly McLaughlin]

I sent them a Christmas card and I didn't get a thank you. So I, at that point I had been very offended.

[Natalie Roberman]

Instead, she's getting endless calls from her credit card companies.

[Molly McLaughlin]

It was the collections department, unfortunately, just at the time, I just did not have the money even for payment options. Anything from the part time job went to pay what little I could for the credit card. So I wasn't really earning much for myself to live on at that point. Felt like I was drowning, trying to figure out things I could do. Can I do a consolidation? Can I maybe go to like credit services and see what we can work on?

[Natalie Roberman]

Molly can't pay her rent. She moves in with her boyfriend. And by the spring of 2017, she feels she has no other choice but to file for bankruptcy.

[Molly McLaughlin]

I remember the day after the paperwork was filed, I said, I hear silence because at that point it's like, you know, as soon as you hit that button, it was like calm and done. I didn't have to worry about any calls, even though I did kind of feel a bit of shame because gotta file bankruptcy. I also felt tremendous relief, like a burden had finally been lifted.

[Natalie Roberman]

Molly does get one call she's happy to take.

[Molly McLaughlin]

I received a call from the ftc.

[Natalie Roberman]

That's the Federal Trade Commission, who go after businesses with unfair or deceptive trade practices. The person on the other end of

[Molly McLaughlin]

the phone tells her they were investigating some of the companies affiliated as part of this scam.

[Natalie Roberman]

You can imagine the FTC call feeling big for Molly. This is a government agency taking action. And Bridget, the victim you heard from in episode one, got a similar call.

[Bridget]

I received a call from Homeland Security and they started asking me all of these questions. Did I purchase an affiliate marketing program? Did I pay for coaching sessions and so forth and so on. And I answered, yes, yes, yes, yes. And so that's when they told me that they were building a case against these individuals who were running a scam.

[Natalie Roberman]

And soon Bridget was Making plans to travel to New York because she'd been asked to take the stand against Jen Shah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I am your host, Stassi Schroeder. Welcome to Tell Me Lies, the official podcast. What's the the most unhinged thing of season three?

[Natalie Roberman]

Steven because he's so evil, I do

[Molly McLaughlin]

think he is misunderstood.

[Kate Arthur]

You see everyone face consequences.

[Ceci]

It's intoxicating.

[Stassi Schroeder]

The writers just know how to trick ya.

[Kate Arthur]

There's always a twist in this show.

[Molly McLaughlin]

Nothing you would expect.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Tell me Lies, the official podcast now streaming and stream the new season of Tell Me Lies on Hulu and Hulu on Disney.

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[Narrator]

In the summer of 2022, after some initial calls with investigators, Bridget goes to see a special agent and an assistant district attorney to prepare for the impending trial.

[Bridget]

We were going to go to court and they wanted me to be the first witness. I met with them in Las Vegas at a government building. You know, it was a very gloomy day. The sun did not shine that day. The special agent sent a driver to pick me up. And during that ride, it just felt like I was going to a funeral.

[Narrator]

At this point, Bridget has no idea that Jenshaw is involved in her case. She doesn't even know who she is.

[Bridget]

I've heard of Real Housewives of Atlanta and other other places, but not Salt Lake City. So when we sat down, they handed me the binder. Okay, us versus Jennifer. Sean, I like, I don't know who that person is.

[Narrator]

Bridget says the assistant district attorney wants her to focus on her personal experience to humanize all the those other victims for the jury. They give Bridget that binder. The United States versus Jennifer Shaw, which has a lot of Bridget's own notes and correspondence with the companies she gave money to.

[Bridget]

So we went through it page by page. They told me what to expect during the trial. They said that I should be prepared to stay two days.

[Narrator]

Bridget's nervous. She's scared by all this. It's daunting to take part in a trial to testify on the stand as a witness.

[Bridget]

They're relying on me because they said that people or jurors tend to remember the first person who testifies and the last person who testifies. And so they wanted me to go first. And all the while I'm thinking, I want to back out. I don't want to go through with it. But then I had to pull myself together. The next day I was like, okay, I'm going to start packing.

[Narrator]

But Jen, Jen has other plans. See behind the scenes, Stuart Smith, that first assistant guy who looked like a middle aged office worker and was often by Jen's side on the show, he had cut a deal with the government. On camera he looked like her loyal friend. But he was going to take a plea. And one would think that part of that was he was flipping on Jen. According to a report, he'd even paid his way to New York to testify against Jen. And at one point he said something like, I feel those who arrested me freed me from the devil. The judge said, you mean Jen Shaw? And he said, yes, I did try to get away from her. I was thankful for the arrest. I got out from under her thumb. And now, not long before Bridget's getting ready to travel, she gets a message.

[Bridget]

I get an email from the assistant district attorney indicating that there wasn't going to be a trial because Jennifer Shaw took a plea deal.

[Kate Arthur]

The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City star Jen Shaw pleaded guilty, conspiracy to commit wire fraud in connection with telemarketing.

[Natalie Roberman]

The prosecutor agreed to drop count two,

[Kate Arthur]

which was conspiracy to commit money laundering.

[Narrator]

It was just a week before the trial was supposed to start. And later to People magazine, Jen explains her fourth quarter decision like this.

[Stassi Schroeder]

We were waiting for supporting documentation. That's when my attorneys are educating me on, okay, in order for them to find you guilty under consent conspiracy, there just needs to be enough text messages, emails, communication to show that you conspired with, with others, with somebody, like with my co defendant. And I really thought, well, just the truth is going to prevail. And they said it's, it's not about the truth at trial, Jen. It's about the story that is told and what story is the jury going to believe. And that was like the hardest, hardest

[Molly McLaughlin]

decision that I ever made.

[Angela Angadi]

You are innocent until proven guilty. But the case that the government had was so overwhelmingly comprehensive and substantial.

[Ceci]

When Jen Shaw was arrested, there had already been, I think, 10 other CO defendants arrested like in the, in the exact same case. I think she was number 11. Her assistant, Stuart Smith was number 12. So multiple people had already gone down for this. I think she was the last one.

[Angela Angadi]

All of her co conspirators had already pled guilty and made deals, and they were obviously all going to testify against her.

[Narrator]

Ceci and Angela have another theory about why Jen might have waited until the last minute to plead guilty. This is just their opinion, but perhaps, unsurprisingly, it might have had to do with money.

[Angela Angadi]

Morality clause. She wanted to get paid for the rest of the season.

[Ceci]

A lot of the times, if you're dealing with someone who's risky, you put in what's called a morality clause, which basically says if you engage in this type of behavior that will hurt our reputation or will hurt the show's reputation, then we can terminate your agreement without it being a breach of a contract. Maybe they added a morality clause that says if you plead guilty or if you're found guilty of a crime, then we can terminate our contract with you and you can no longer appear on the show or be engaged in anything.

[Angela Angadi]

With Bravo, they get paid per episode, so they don't get a flat fee for the entire season. So she would be missing out on those episodic payments. We are theorizing if she had pled guilty beforehand. So she waited, got all of the money, income, everything that she could, and then at the 11th hour, pled guilty.

[Narrator]

But after she pled, Jen actually showed up at a Bravo cast party that Angela and Ceci were also attending.

[Angela Angadi]

We were in the same room as her after we'd recorded episodes. It was crazy.

[Natalie Roberman]

What did she look like?

[Angela Angadi]

Herself? Normal.

[Molly McLaughlin]

Yeah, what did she.

[Natalie Roberman]

I mean, was she. She's not, like, sheepish, hanging her head?

[Ceci]

No, she never was.

[Narrator]

Soon, Jen Shaw would stride into prison with her head held high, and there she would make friends with another famous inmate. Elizabeth Holmes, the founder and CEO of Theranos, plus Ghislaine Maxwell, who we'll be talking about next episode.

[Ceci]

Stitch Fix. Stop shopping. Get styled. A plus on the outfit. Ms. Turner, you are about to slay parent teacher conferences.

[Molly McLaughlin]

Oh, these just the most perfect fitting jeans my stylist sent me. Oh, hello, you who didn't set one foot in a mall and still looks amazing.

[Ceci]

Just share your size, style, and budget, and your stylist sends personalized looks right to your door. Stitch Fix, get started today@stitch fix.com to my stylist, this look is dedicated to you.

[Molly McLaughlin]

Thank you.

[Kate Arthur]

Thank you. Kind of like a dramatic shift in the vibe from outside where people are chatting, gossiping, hoping to get in to. Okay, now you're in. And it's, like, very serious.

[Molly McLaughlin]

What else do we know about Shaw's time behind bars?

[Bridget]

There were photos of her in the yard with Elizabeth Holmes.

[Molly McLaughlin]

Ghislaine Maxwell.

[Kate Arthur]

Did you have any interactions with her?

[Stassi Schroeder]

I had interactions with her.

[Ceci]

What would make someone do this and what would make someone go on the TV show are the exact same. It's this confidence that you think that you can get away with it.

[Kate Arthur]

I think Andy Cohen answered this for all of us, which is no one ever wants to see her again.

[Ceci]

Would the House Oversight Committee ever seek to subpoena Jen Shaw?

[Bridget]

It.