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- [00:02]
Jamie Hess
Campsite Media. Hey, infamous listeners. Today we're doing something a little different. We're sharing an episode from a show we absolutely love, the Gratitudology Podcast with Jamie Hess. It's a podcast that digs deep into resilience, recovery, and finding meaning through life's most intense moments. And this episode is pretty infamous. Jamie dives into the story of Jesse Buttafuoco, a name you might recognize from one of the most sensational true crime cases of the 90s. The case where one man's wife was shot in the face by his underage mistress, Amy Fisher. The case that maybe helped kick off the true crime craze that's still going on today. But what you might not know is what happened to that couple's daughter, Jessie, a nine year old whose normal life was upended when her family's tragedy became a media circus. This is Jessie's story. It's about reclaiming her voice and navigating trauma and media exploitation. It's powerful, moving, and honestly, kind of unforgettable. Here's gratitudeology growing up Buddafuko.
- [01:18]
Jesse Buttafuoco
Hope you enjoy this episode. Mentions gun violence and suicide. Please take care while listening. Born in 1983, Jesse's childhood was like one long movie montage combined with a classic family sitcom.
- [01:42]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
My parents, Joey and Mary Jo. And the name alone is adorable, right? And then there was so much love there. They were high school sweethearts. I mean, Joey and Mary Jo were like it. They were popular in the neighborhood, you know, it was very much them.
- [01:56]
Jesse Buttafuoco
The family lived in a safe, close knit neighborhood on Long Island, New York.
- [02:02]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
You knew everybody and you could ride your bike up and down the street and go skateboard with those kids and go ding dong ditch over there.
- [02:13]
Jesse Buttafuoco
When Jesse was nine years old, she was getting ready to take part in it. She'd no longer be left behind while her big brother and the other neighborhood kids caused a little harmless mischief on their way to school. Her biggest worry was remembering her bike lock combination outside of school and neighborhood shenanigans. Jesse spent her time at dance classes and just generally preparing to be the greatest thing Broadway had ever seen. You know, singing along with the best of the 90s divas just waiting to be discovered from her bedroom.
- [02:53]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
I came out of the womb just singing and dancing and wanting to entertain and make people laugh. I would play Whitney Houston on repeat, Mariah Carey on repeat, and just dance in my room with a hairbrush and just really like got into that kind of fantasy life. And then at 9 years old, my mother was shot in the face by my dad's underage mistress.
- [03:19]
Joey Buttafuoco
Tonight, mysterious shooting in the suburbs. A woman was shot in the head in front of her house. No suspect, no motive. So far, both neighbors and investigators are asking themselves the same question. Why? Why this neighborhood? Why this house? Why would anyone want to kill Mary Jo? But a fugal the first time Jesse's.
- [03:38]
Jesse Buttafuoco
Last name had been is but a fuko. If you were around in 1992, even if you were just a kid like Jesse and I were, then you probably know exactly who her dad is. And if you don't, we'll catch you up. Either way, you're going to want to hear this story from her perspective. Because even though Jesse gives up major main character energy, her famous last name, the trauma of both the attack and the media coverage and everything that came after pushed her down. But not anymore. Today, this warrior goddess takes back her narrative. And I couldn't think of a better guest to help us celebrate the one year anniversary of this podcast. That's right, this show holds space for humans to share stories of turning pain into purpose and the resulting switch flip that ensues. Seeing life through a lens of gratitude. When I met Jessie Buttafuoco, I immediately knew that she was the literal embodiment of this. So today, on the one year anniversary of this show, I bring you her story. Jessie Buttafuoco today on the gratitudology podcast.
- [05:25]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
Fire Would you ride through the storm? Will you walk on a wire? Will you save me if I fall? Will you break through the madness that is down where we're safe? I'll be right here waiting till you find me again.
- [05:53]
Jesse Buttafuoco
In 1992, I was 12 years old and things were just different. If you're my age or older, you get it. But for the youngins, let me frame this up for you. There was no Internet, or hardly any. At least there's no social media. It was a simpler time somehow. The legendary song by Queen, Bohemian Rhapsody from 1975 was charting again due to its inclusion in the movie Wayne's World.
- [06:36]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
Good night and party on. Party on, Wayne. Party on, Garth. It's Wayne's World.
- [06:41]
Jesse Buttafuoco
But if you wanted to listen to said song, you had to go down to Sam Goody or Tower Records. Those were the music stores. For those of you who are too young to know and buy a cassette tape or if your parents were bougie, a compact disc. People still watched mostly local news and shows on primetime tv. For entertainment, Bill Clinton had just won the Democratic presidential nomination.
- [07:08]
Joey Buttafuoco
For 12 years, the politicians in Washington have raised their pay cut taxes on the rich and raised taxes on the middle class. That's wrong. I'm Bill Clinton and I think you deserve a change. That's why I've offered.
- [07:20]
Jesse Buttafuoco
But nobody had heard the name Monica Lewinsky yet. Reality TV did not yet exist, although that was about to change. In fact, the very first episode of MTV's the Real World premiered just days after the incident we're about to get into. And in a way, this fact was endemic of all that was to come both in pop culture, true crime and in this story in particular. We were just about to turn a cultural corner. Up to now, gossip was either shared in hushed tones over a backyard fence or or over shared cups of coffee between PTA moms amidst a 90s wood paneled kitchen. But we were about to turn that corner all right. Where all of a sudden all of the world was a fishbowl. We began to expect our neighbor's trauma to be served up on a silver platter for us to consume. It is amidst this moment that we meet Jesse. Only at a tender nine years old, she couldn't possibly have any idea about what was about to come. What was your perspective of your parents growing up like? I mean you were so young, but what did that kind of look like to you?
- [08:45]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
I mean my parents, first of all, I placed them on this pedestal, right? It's Joey and Mary Jo and the name alone is adorable, right? And then there was so much love there. I saw my dad adore my mother, shower her with gifts. Love bomb. My mom equally loved my dad just as much. I saw them as the most supportive, beautiful unit that would protect me and look out for me and never lie to me and do everything for me. They were high school sweethearts and so whenever they fought, if they fought, I didn't see it. My mom was very adamant about doing that behind closed doors. She was very good at making me stand, think that everything was perfect. From my perspective at 9, even 10, 11, 12, like my parents were just this united front. And then when this all happened and the world kind of was like staring at my family unit, we all kind of went like this and, and put up our defenses because all of a sudden the outside world is like infiltrating my life and questioning my parents relationship of course, which was weird for me, cause I'm like, you don't know them, they're perfect. What do you mean? They're great, they're lovely, everybody loves them, everyone in the community. I mean Joey and Mary Jo were like, it they were popular in the neighborhood. You know, it was very much. It was them. And no one could believe that my father was either cheating or stepping out. You just didn't see that at all.
- [10:15]
Jesse Buttafuoco
Let's go to the beginning of that day.
- [10:20]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
So that day, May 19, 1992, was the first day I was riding my bicycle to school in the morning. My mom was hounding me about my bike lock combination and how to use it and was, like, really instilling the sense of responsibility in me, of, like, you have to lock up your bike. You have to be safe. Like, I just remember that as being the last thing we were talking about as I was leaving. Now, riding your bike to school was like a rite of passage. And the was my first time doing it with my big brother. It was a random, like, Tuesday. And so as we were heading off, I'm ready to go. My brother's like, I don't know. I got to go back in. He went back in. He just had a weird feeling. My mom was like, whatever. Come on. Go, go, go. Shoved him out the door. So around noon, I mean, it was before lunch, I get a phone call in, like, you know, the. The classroom. And I was told to pack my lunch and meet my aunt at the front of the school. And I was like, what? Like, what? Why? I'm leaving. Why am I leaving? I have auditions for the school play after. This was going to be my musical debut. I was going to get discovered and become Annie on Broadway. What do you mean, I have to leave? And so I get my little Minnie Mouse lunchbox and my little thermos, and then I head out the door, and then I see my brother coming down the hall as well. And now we're walking, and now I see my aunt, who's 6 foot in the distance. I was like, why? Why is she here? She's never picked me over from school. What's going on? It was weird. And she's like, all right, we gotta go. And I remember freaking out of, like, but my bike. My bike's here. We can't leave my bike here. Mom's gonna kill me if I leave my bike here. No, you don't understand. Mom is like, this is my first thing that of, like, responsibility that my mom is putting on my plate. And if she finds that I leave this school without my bike, she's gonna kill me. Not realizing she's. She's fighting for her life, you know, in a hospital bed. So eventually, I don't know what's going on, we leave. I make my aunt get my bike, we throw it in her trunk, and we head to my dad's work. And we meet up at my dad's shop. And when I get there, every one of my family members is there. My dad is one of five. My mom is one of five. Both their parents were alive. So everyone is at my dad's work at this point. And the only time that really happens is holidays, right? Christmas, Thanksgiving, things like that. This was May. Like, what are we doing? And I just remember everyone looking like. Like they saw a ghost or just like their world has been rocked. And at the time, you know, I was very intuitive. I could pick up on stuff. And so I'm sitting on my aunt's lap, and I'm just looking at everybody, like, as if they're in this state of shock, because they were. And I cracked a joke and said, what's the matter with everybody? It looks like somebody got shot in the head of something. And then my aunt was like, who told you that? What's going? Like, as if I said something wrong. And I felt very much in trouble. And so I was like, oh, nothing. I just made a joke. You guys look like you're really serious right now. I still was asking for my mom and not getting an answer of where she was. My dad also was not around. I think he was in the hospital or helping catch the perpetrator or something like that, which is wild.
- [13:15]
Jesse Buttafuoco
So for all of these hours, no one's telling you and your brother what's happening?
- [13:19]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
No, I think my brother was told. Cause he was older. He was 12. I was nine. I'm in third grade. No one is telling me anything. Just tell me. I can handle it. I promise I won't freak out. And then eventually, the story was, my mom was painting in the backyard. She fell off a bench, and she landed on a nail that was sticking up on the floor. So, like, a tetanus moment. And I was like, ow. Y'all are freaking out for a nail. Like, I was like, what? Come on, get out of here. All right, let me go see her. And they wouldn't let me go see her. I wasn't allowed to see her at all. And I was pissed about that because everyone else in my family could see her. My brother could see her. All my aunts and uncles could go in and visit her, but I was not allowed. And I very much at that point felt very excluded, annoyed, angry. I can handle it. Like, whatever it is, let me see my mom. Come on. We'll figure it out. It's a nail on the head, right? I wasn't allowed to go home. My house was a crime scene at that point. I still don't know what's going on. I'm not allowed to watch tv. I can only hang out at my aunt's house while my other cousins go to school. I'm bored, and I'm like, where's mom? Where's dad? I don't even remember my dad coming. At one point, I got a bag dropped off of, like, pajamas and overnight clothes. And I remember looking through the bag, missing my mom, and looking through the bag and pulling out this pair of pajamas that I absolutely hated. Like, they were the worst. They were too small. And I remember crying and being like, my mom would have known what pajamas to pack. You know, my dad packed that bag, and so I didn't see him. He dropped the bag off. So I'm not even seeing my parents. I'm nine. Where are my parents? What the hell's going on? Like, I have a close family relationship, but still, where's my mom and dad? I'm relentless. I'm at my aunt's house, and she sits me down, and she hands me a newspaper, and she goes, so what we told you about mom was not true. And she hands me a newspaper. And then, first of all, I have a reading comprehension problem and adhd. So I'm looking at this newspaper, and I see my mom's picture, her looking normal. And I see a picture of my house with, like, police tape and cars in front of it. And I try to read this headline in this article of, like, local woman shot in the head or something like that. But it just really. I wasn't. It wasn't making sense. Sense to me. So I look up at my aunt, and she goes, do you understand, honey? And I'm just like, no. And then she was like, well, and then told me what happened, that my mother was shot. At least now I know why everyone's freaking out so bad. Because she got shot in the face, not a nail. And I remember being so angry of, like, you guys lied to me, like, to my face, like, you're my family. What? What? And I've had a point of contention with everyone in my life that lies to me from here on out because of that moment. I just remember having so many early feelings of, like, not being able to trust people anymore, not being able to take their word for face value and, like, stuff like that. So it was really rough. And so, you know, come to find out, while that's all happening to me, my mom's in a hospital bed fighting for her life because my father's underage mistress went to my childhood home, lured my mother out of the house, had a quick conversation with her, and then shot her point blank in the range, right in the face on the right side of her head and left her there to die. And eventually they thought it was just like some dude. They didn't even know who it was. Police didn't know they were looking for some random guy.
- [16:53]
Jesse Buttafuoco
I feel like I just need to pause for a moment and bring you into my brain. As I was sitting here interviewing Jesse, I can't imagine how scared and confused she must have been. Here she is 9 years old and her entire world was just turned upside down and ripped apart. Her mother is lying in a hospital bed on the verge of death and her father is. Well, who knows where the hell he is. This brave, traumatized young girl was being passed around to relatives and kept in the dark, all while trying to process what the hell was going on and what would happen next. The part Jesse didn't know, couldn't have known because she was far too young, was what was taking place in the media. What me and the rest of the world were watching at this juncture. All we knew was that a suburban woman was shot point blank in the face outside her home. It was a mystery and had regular folks all over the country thinking, could this happen to me? Neighborhoods were abuzz, people were scared, and everyone wanted to find the perpetrator. What no one could know was that that perp, well, she was about to be named.
- [18:20]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
And it wasn't until my mom woke up. By the grace of God. Woke up. Her odds of waking up was like zero, zero to none. Like I remember. I think they told my grandmother she's if she survives, she's going to be deaf, blind, brain dead, paralyzed. Like this woman will be a vegetable if and when she wakes up. So by the grace of God, my mom woke up. And when she woke up, she had a trach tube in her throat and she made like a signal to write because she couldn't speak. And so they're like, Mary Jo, you're in the hospital. Do you know who did this to you? All this stuff. And she wound up writing the name down.
- [18:56]
Jesse Buttafuoco
Amy Fisher. Coming face to face with her victim.
- [19:00]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
Sometimes I think this is Amy Fisher.
- [19:03]
Jesse Buttafuoco
Who the hell was Amy Fisherman? Well, Mary Jo had never heard of this name before, but it turns out Joey had. She was a customer at Joey's shop. A 17 year old customer, to be very, very clear. And when she turned up on Mary Jo's doorstep that day, she brought with her not only a gun, but some shocking news as well.
- [19:32]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
Amy Fisher, who turned out to be the perpetrator, went to my mom saying, you, husband's cheating.
- [19:39]
Jesse Buttafuoco
That's right. Amy came to Mary Jo's perfect home that she shared with her quote, unquote, perfect husband, Joey, that day to shake up her world in every which way, an attempt to end it.
- [19:57]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
Eventually, the police recruited my father to get a hold of Amy Fisher, have them meet up, and then they arrested her and took her to jail.
- [20:05]
Jesse Buttafuoco
Of course, at the time, Jesse was unaware of how the investigation was unfolding. All she knew was that her mother was lying in the hospital fighting for her life. But little Jesse hadn't even been allowed to see her mom up to this point. She was too young, so all she could do was wait.
- [20:31]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
So eventually, I'm allowed to go see her, and I'm given, like, a pep talk of, like, she looks a lot different. She's got a lot of bandages on her face. You have to be gentle. You can't go in there and dance for her. You can't go in there and do a standup routine. Like, you know, I was ready to entertain and make feel better and laugh and sing. And they were like, girl, this is not the time for that Jesse to come out. You got to be gentle, and you got to be quiet. They finally told me the secret. I need to be able to handle this, you know, and that kind of thing. And so even if I was scared or something like that, I really tried my best not to let anybody know. But I do remember walking in and seeing this alien in a hospital bed. I don't know who that lady is, but that's not my mom. And I just see this frail little lady with bandages around her head, literally looking like an alien from outer space. And I just, like, walk over to her, and I'm just really scared about, am I gonna hurt her? Can I hug her? Can I talk to her? What's happening? You know, I really kept a strong face, and I was strong for my mom when I went in the room. But as soon as I left, it all came out. And my grandmother and my aunt tell me that I started, like, almost convulsing and, like, super shaking and, like, really, really crying. Eventually, when she came home, I saw the bullet in her head. I saw the hole in her head. I saw the wounds. You know, I saw the physical side of things. She's paralyzed on half her face now. She can't hear out of her right ear. Every time I talk to her, I have to be on her left side. And I just remember having to really try to just be on my best behavior around the house. I don't want to be too loud. I really don't want to, you know, make my mom's life any worse. And I think at that point is when I started to really minimize myself. Like if I fell and hurt myself, I didn't tell anybody. Because it's not a bullet to the head, right?
- [22:18]
Jesse Buttafuoco
It's not a bullet to the head. Imagine that being the barometer against which you gauge the validity of any childhood trauma, any bump or bruise, any broken heart from your first love. Imagine at 9, you felt like you had to invalidate your pain because at the end of the day, it's not a bullet to the head. Mary Jo began to miraculously recover, which once again left things in a precarious and bizarre place. I mean, now what? It's starting to appear as if Mary Jo was shot by a teenage lover of her husband. But was this really the case? This is where the story becomes windy and it's something that Jesse is still unpacking to this very day because the media so strongly invaded her family's privacy and pushed into their lives so obtrusively. Jesse thinks they closed ranks as a defense mechanism which allowed Joey to maintain the facade that this was all a big misunderstanding. Amy Fisher was some love struck teenager who did a crazy thing unrelated to anything he did. And the family had to stick together now more than ever. You know, hindsight is an amazing thing. I think we can all look back now and with the advantage of time, clarity and several made for TV movies on the topic, we can understand immediately that this is hogwash, nonsense, but at the time, the family, well, they believed him. They wanted so badly to believe him that they just did. And so everyone just came back together under one roof. Joey, his wounded recovering wife, Mary Jo and the kids. And they acted like a united front against the real enemy, the media. Of course, I couldn't help but ask Jesse in her quietest moments in her teenage bedroom what she really thought. Like, what goes through your mind as a preteen living with your dad after all this went down?
- [24:47]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
Good question. For most of my life, I did not think he had anything to do with it. I thought this girl just became obsessed with him because he was nice and charismatic and a great dad and she didn't have one of her own and just wanted that for herself. But it wasn't until I had a mental breakdown and got into recovery and had to build myself back up. And then I was able to see him differently and understand that he did have something to do with this. See, for most of my life, I have had conversations with that man. Did you have anything to do with this? Did you know her? Did you plan this? Did you? I mean, anything? And he would look me right in the eye and say, no, of course not. I would never do that. I love your mother too much. I love you too much. I swear on my mother's grave, I would never do anything. I don't even know her. She was just a customer at our shop. She denied the affair, denied everything from the gap, from the jump. And now. See, I didn't understand that as a kid. They weren't telling me that part. All I knew is that all of a sudden, everyone is hating my father and calling him this scoundrel and a pimp and a liar and all this stuff. And I'm not really getting it because he's gaslighting everybody, saying I had nothing to do with her. And when you're the child of that person or the wife of that person or the brother or the sister of that person, you can't imagine that person could do that stuff. So you believe them, especially when they're telling you to your face, I had nothing to do with it. I chose to believe that. But I think from the outside world, you know, the audience watching, they could see right through my dad's bullshit. It's just hard to see it when you're in it. And a lot of people that have domestic abuse, you know, that was emotional abuse for me. I wasn't getting physically hit, but, you know, my relationship with him was very emotionally abusive, which I think for me, made it worse for me, because here I see this just random girl becoming obsessed with my mom for no reason and trying to kill her. And, like, that terrified me. My dad was denying everything and completely gaslighting everybody, including me, my mom, his brothers and sisters, and our community at large. And everybody knew my dad to be this friendly, loving guy who loved his wife and his children. So, like, why would we think differently? Especially when we're hearing it right, directly from his mouth. Right, right. And so when this all happened and then the world infiltrated our community, we all just became Team Joey. Mom came home and was shadow number.
- [27:18]
Jesse Buttafuoco
One husband, and he just lied to her. And she believed.
- [27:21]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
Yeah, it was okay. Understood. Absolutely. And because she didn't know any different. Like, she didn't see him cheating. She really didn't. She thought their marriage was as strong as it ever was. Like, they had their problems, but, like, not. She didn't see any of this coming at all. And so the dynamic at home, it was weird. Not only is my mom physically injured, all of a sudden, they're famous now. I learned very early that my family doesn't need any more problems. So I'm just gonna be as perfect as I can, and I'm gonna succeed and I'm gonna laugh and I'm gonna make you think I'm fine. And I just. I acted my way through my life. I was dying inside. I was terrified of being kidnapped, terrified of being murdered myself, terrified of taking the trash out or walking the dog. Okay, so I just learned how to do everything. Scared. And I was just constantly biting my nails, anxious and nervous.
- [28:16]
Jesse Buttafuoco
Imagine that you had to deal with this pressure on your own, hiding it from your family and therefore cutting yourself off from the. The only support system you had. Now imagine this is all happening at a time when attention spans were a lot more concentrated and not as fractured as they are today, with a million distractions and downloads that allow us to jump and click from one thing to the other. Back then, everyone paid attention to the same news cycle. In today's terms, this was viral on a level we don't see even these days. Although going viral wasn't a thing back then yet. But having news crews camp out on your front lawn for months at a time, well, that was. That was very much a thing. This case was unarguably the jumping off point. It was the first true crime sensation. That was the first piece in the puzzle ultimately leading to today's obsession over all things true crime, from podcasts to the dateline of it all. This case even came before the O.J. simpson case.
- [29:19]
Joey Buttafuoco
This is the CBS News Special Report. Dan Rather reporting, CBS News worldwide headquarters in New York. Good day. Los Angeles police are about to hold a news conference about the O.J. simpson case. The district attorney's office filed murder charges against him. Today, the former pro football star is accused of murder.
- [29:35]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
We were directly before O.J. when O.J. came, it took the attention off us and actually gave us breathing room a little bit.
- [29:41]
Jesse Buttafuoco
Okay, so here we are with 90s exploitative media culture just about to hit hyperspeed. From OJ Simpson to the talk shows that newly littered the airwaves each day with shocking, controversial, and intrusive content for the first time in history. You know, shows like Donahue, Sally, Jessie Raphael, on the next Sally and Of course, this guy Geraldo.
- [30:11]
Joey Buttafuoco
Weekday mornings at 9 on your 24 hour news source.
- [30:14]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
Well, 90s tabloid culture was very exploitative. So this was when the media controlled what people saw, too. There was no streaming. There was no Hulu, Netflix, Apple, Spotify. Like, it was, you know, less than 100 channels on TV, a few radio stations, and that's about it. And at this time, this was right at the cusp of reality TV starting too. So that wasn't even a thing yet. Like, we were like the experiment today, basically. And so not long after the shooting, it became a news story. And obviously I read it and then it became like national news. And then all of a sudden it's being talked about on daytime tv, late night TV news specials, Larry King, everywhere, Saturday Night Live, David Letterman, Jay Leno, like, like, it's. It's become this now joke also. My last name is now becoming the butt of every joke. There was paparazzi everywhere. All of a sudden there are just sea. A sea of cameras and news reporters and people that were just trying to get a glimpse of anything they could. I remember, like, looking out my window at the crowd and like, giving the middle finger and being like, use that on the news and like, that kind of stuff. Like, I also remember wanting to be Annie on Broadway. So when they came, I was like, this is it, my shot. This is how we're getting discovered. This is my shot. And so I would, like, put on my leotard and I would bring out my boombox to the front and I would like, wait for 5:00 because I was like, all right, the news is starting. Let's go. And I'd like, Showtime. And I roll out there and I'd like, I'm every woman on the boombox. Don't get it twisted. And I was doing, girl, everything. I was like, cartwheels, flip flops, back flips, pirouettes, leaps. And I would like at the end. And like, no one's clapping for me. No one's impressed.
- [32:11]
Jesse Buttafuoco
Where's my contract?
- [32:12]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
They literally. I'm like, what do you guys mean, you're not here for me? Like, I couldn't understand that. And like, the news reporters would hate it. And they'd be like, girl, can you. We're trying to do a live segment here. Can you move and go play somewhere else? And then I'd be pissed. I was like, this is my house. Do your job somewhere else. What do you mean? You know, and I just get defeated and, you know, packed up my little bag and go inside. But like, the amount of press was insane. The amount of coverage was insane. It was 24 7. It was inescapable. And it was just overwhelming, to be honest. But I still had to go to dance and I still had to go to school. And, like, when your house becomes a tourist attraction, it's a really weird and invasive thing because not only was, like, the news people there and press just knocking on our door, you know, every five minutes, and I'm trying to just, you know, do my homework and like, stuff like that, it became a tourist attraction. So people would drive by and, like, honk on the horn or throw eggs. I remember being in the den and someone threw a carton of eggs. I thought it was a machine gun. I was terrified. I thought I was going to die. Like, thought someone was coming to shoot again, you know. And so it was a really traumatic experience. It was also very invasive that any action I did could potentially be a headline. And so from that moment on, everything I ever did was, is this going to be a headline? And if it is, I'm either not going to do it or I'm going to find my way to cheat or lie my way around that. Because all eyes were on us. If we go out to dinner with my family, someone's barking at the other table, or I'm driving in a convertible with my dad and. And someone's like, oh, wow, Joey, you really do like them young. And he's just, like, taking me to dance class. And so, like, I wasn't necessarily experiencing anonymous, you know, hate comments on a social media page, but I was getting them in real time. I can't tell you how many parties I've been to when someone tells a Buttafuoco joke not knowing I'm the daughter. And then the whole room goes silent. And then it's awkward and then it's weird. Or how many times my name comes up on a roster somewhere or in a public setting and say, oh, but if you go, you related to Joey. And like, it's such a weird. That's such a weird part because I at that time, too, especially if I said no, right? No, I don't know him. People would tell me, what a. Can you believe that? And then just hate on him. And now I'm listening to these people trash my dad, but I told them no. So I'm just going to sit here and take it. And then I was like, well, saying no doesn't stop people from talking shit. So I say, yeah, he's my dad. And then people don't know what to say because they were about to talk shit, and so now they have nothing nice to say. So they're like, oh. So then I had to learn quickly how to tell a joke or, you know, break the ice or, like, make them feel better. But any relation is, like, a point of contention for me and has been my whole life.
- [34:58]
Jesse Buttafuoco
In the meantime, the arrest of Amy Fisher would not bring any peace to the Buttafuoco household. In fact, every time Fisher, who was now being called by the press the Long Island Lolita, appeared in court, more secrets were revealed.
- [35:20]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
It turns out my father was having this affair with her, and she became obsessed with my dad and wanted to take my mom's place. So she quickly started stalking my mother over the course of, like, six to eight months, and so would hire people to find out her routine, me and my brother's routine, things like that. She was a known sex worker at the time, and she hired people through money and sex, and she hired dudes to sit in the bushes at my house with a gun. At one point, the day after Halloween, she came to our house and lured my mother out of the house as if she was selling candy for a school fundraiser and had someone waiting in the bushes who got cold feet and didn't shoot my mom then. So this was like there was premeditated stalking and moments to take her life. Eventually, no one was doing it, so she did it herself. And that's when she drove to my house at, like, 10:30, 11 in the morning on a Tuesday and lured my mom out of the house and then shot her in the head, left her for dead, tried to do the gun, jammed, so that's a miracle because there was extra casings found on the floor over her body and then hopped in the getaway car and went on with her day. But honestly, other than that, I really didn't know much about her. I just knew that she's my public enemy number one. She's my Disney villain I've still never met. Her image is burned into my head, you know, but at that time, I really didn't know anything other than this girl came into my life and ruined it.
- [36:55]
Jesse Buttafuoco
And just when the Buttafuko family thought it couldn't possibly get any worse, Jesse learned the affair with her dad began when Amy was only 16. And then Amy included Joey in the version of her murder plot, claiming that he. He had manipulated her into committing the assault. The conflicting claims between Amy and Joey were splashed all over nightly news and the tabloids. Joey's lawyer, of course, insisted his client was never involved with the young woman and that she had invented the whole affair, while Amy's lawyer portrayed her as the victim. After her assault conviction, Joey was indicted on 19 counts of statutory rape, sodomy, and endangering the welfare of a child. At first, he initially pleaded not guilty, but later agreed to a plea deal and was sentenced to six months jail time. He was released after serving only four months and nine days of that sentence. Eventually, the accumulation of lies, trauma and anxiety would push Jesse into a dark path.
- [38:19]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
Eventually, when I'm 35 years old, I have a mental, emotional, physical and spiritual breakdown. Okay? Most of my life from that incident on was filled with anxiety, ptsd, hypervigilance, addiction, substances, alcohol, all that kind of stuff. And once I hit 35 years old, I had gotten really sad, really depressed, like suicidal. Now that I'm a psychologist, I can now see that I was weeks away from ending my own life or attempting to. And once I had that breakdown, it was either, all right, I'm either going to kill myself or I'm going to do what I got to do to get better. And so I entered recovery and I started to process my life. Up until then, I never got professional help. I never processed my trauma. I didn't think my life was traumatic. It was just my life. I didn't go to war. What do you mean? I'm not wearing camouflage. I didn't go into a gun battle. But it turns out the brain reacts the same way to trauma. And so I was filled with anxiety, ptsd, substance use, eating disorders. I mean, all of it, girl. And so by the time I entered recovery, I started to realize that my father was the common denominator to most of my problems. And I also was then 35, 36, 37. I'm now the same age he was when he decided to make all these poor choices that rocked the rest of my life. And now I'm starting to see him in a different way because I would never make those choices, and I would never look at a 17 year old like that. And I would never do things to compromise my family like that. So that alone started shifting my perspective. And then I just really started doing the work around that. Where is this anxiety coming from? Why am I so stressed out? Why am I addicted? Why all that stuff, right? I wound up going into an intensive outpatient program where I was getting therapy for like four hours a day, four days a week, for like, four, four months, just really trying to unwind my life and process everything. And so once I realized that he was kind of like, the common denominator to my problems. I started believing in myself enough that I was like, we gotta protect myself from this guy. And so I had to lay a very strong boundary down with him and cut him out of my life. And it was really hard for me. Cause, like, as much as he's a trash clown, he's still my dad, and I'm still a human being. And it's complicated. And so I really had to talk about it with my therapist, with my friends, like, with my spiritual guides, you know, everybody. Of, like, is this relationship worth ending? And the answer was yes, honey. And so what I wound up doing is composing this really beautiful email that acknowledged the good parts, that said, thank you for putting a roof over my head until the SWAT team came and froze your assets. And thank you for drawing palm trees on my lunch bag as a kid or little things like that. But in no particular order, these are the things I'm not willing to tolerate anymore. And I just listed out 45 major violations of just human decency. Um, and I know I'm not the only one with a list that long, right? That's just my list. And so I wrote this list, and I was like, you know, I love you, but I have to protect myself from you, and I cannot trust you to change. And so, you know, please respect my wishes, and I no longer want to have a relationship with you. And, like, good luck, bro. And so before I sent that, I was, like, really praying on it and, like, connecting with the universe of, like, if I press send, this is it. I'm choosing to end the relationship with someone who is still alive on this planet, and he's my father. And, like, am I okay with that? Like, that's a big deal. And so just then, girl, 12 birds came out and were sitting right outside my window that I was looking at, and they were mourning doves. And mourning doves are, like, a sign of, like, peace and, like, progress and, like, move on, girl. And I was like, all right, spirit squad, I see you. They were like, press send, girl. And so I did. And when I press send, all. All them birds went bah. And just flew away. Of, like, girl, that was the choice. And let me tell you, since then, he's attempted to get back into my life. He'll send me an email saying, you know, are you interested in seeing me? And at this point, I'll just send back, like, a meme of Randy Jackson from American Idol. It's like, that's gonna be a no for me. Dog. Cause I'm just not interested. I'm protecting my peace at all costs. These days. I put crystals in my pocket. I'm like, no, no. But that. That really came, you know, to me after we did our ABC 2020 special. Because we did an ABC 2020 special called Growing Up Buttafuoco. My name is Jesse Buttafuoco. You may recognize the name Buttafuoco. Our name means fire thrower. Buttafuoco, throwing fire, you know, and now it means a joke. And it was like, kind of about my life and about their life and all that. But let's just say my father was not well received and he had feelings about that. And he decided to text me the night it's airing, saying, I can't believe all the stress that you've put me through. I never want to speak to you again, period. Ever. Period. And I went, oh, boing, boing, boing. My eyes were humongous. My jaw dropped to the floor, and I was like, all the stress that I've put in, you threw. You never want to speak to me again. Oh, hell no. And I just blocked them. Blocked and blocked and blocked and blocked him. I left an email open, but I blocked them on everything else. And from that day forward is when this journey of like, nah, bro, you're not doing this to me anymore, and I'm not giving you that power anymore. And that's it. And since then, Queen, I'm thriving. I went back to school and got a master's degree in clinical psychology. I started working as a therapist for homicidal and suicidal teens. Since then, I've also gone back, and now I'm getting a master's degree and a PhD in media psychology. And I'm studying true crime genre and how that impacts victims of crime, hoping to maybe create legislation and psychological safety measures in the genre. And since then, my relationships are getting better. Since then, I quit drinking. My life is falling into. Into place finally. You may see me now, but you ain't seen nothing yet. You know what I mean? But it all started because I had to put that boundary down and I had to close that door. And I couldn't let him abuse me any longer. Cause it wasn't just the incident, right? With him, it was a lifetime.
- [44:52]
Jesse Buttafuoco
Can I just ask how your mom's doing?
- [44:54]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
Sure. My mom is doing amazing. She's about to turn 70 this year, and she says, to this day, you know, I'm living on the house money. Cause she. She very well knows her life could have and should have ended on May 19th. I mean, you know, she's perfectly fine. My mom has taken this tragedy and turned it into something so beautiful. And right now, she's just really focusing on the legacy she's going to leave behind. So what's great is she was able to start the facial paralysis institute with Dr. Azizadeh. So people with Bell's palsy or facial differences or tumors or things like that can go and get help and potentially rejuvenate their smiles and like, things like that. Now she's chilling right now. She's at peace. Her and I have really worked hard on finding peace and protecting that peace of all costs. She, too, has cut my father out of her life and is really just focusing on healing. She's so cute. She goes to the gym every day. She is just thriving. And I'm so blessed that she's still around and that her and I have the relationship that we do. You know, we did miss out on a lot when the shooting occurred. And so now it's like we're making up for lost time. And it's really beautiful.
- [46:01]
Jesse Buttafuoco
The way that I came upon you is like, I had heard you guess on another podcast, and I was like, not only do I need her on my podcast, like, I need this woman in my life right now, and you and I got on a quick zoom just so we could, like, chat about setting up this interview. And I think we were on the phone for, like, two hours. I don't even know. You know, when you get on the phone with a stranger and just realize they're a kindred spirit. This has been mine and Jesse's vibe since the jump. A lot of it has to do with us both being sober sisters in recovery. For all my recovery peeps out there, if you know, you know, that's an immediate foundation of understanding and spiritual connectedness that defies explanation. But it was more than that. Jessie is a rare bright light in this world. She is using her story not as an excuse, but as a reason, a purpose, a mission. This is a girl who illuminates every room she walks into, which is really quite something, given how she was made to dim her light so much as a little girl. I think it's remarkable that even after all of that, she's found her way out from underneath it all and is hell bent on changing the media landscape, approaching it with compassion and empathy and cold, hard facts.
- [47:23]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
You know, after a lifetime of having mental and emotional effects from the media trauma that I experienced, whether that's our story being told without consent, whether that's on set behavior, pre production, post production, things like that. I now am empowered to. To make some changes in that industry. So, like, for example, anytime I've shared my story, whether it's a small production or a major production, I've never had like an on set advocate or liaison.
- [47:57]
Jesse Buttafuoco
Her firsthand experience enabled Jessie to provide that kind of advocacy, a little bit of guidance, emotional support, and maybe even the technical notes, how to navigate the particulars of sitting for an interview as a survivor. And it can mean a world of difference for those who've already been victimized by a crime for them not to be victimized a second time on set by a media outlet, whether intentionally or.
- [48:22]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
Unintentionally, because a lot of times when you're sitting in the chair, you don't feel as empowered as maybe you could to speak up for yourself or even know what's going on. And so having, I think, an extra body on set to kind of help with that could really go a long way and make people feel better. And then that creates a better interview, a better everything. It's like these people have already been traumatized. That's why we're wanting their story, right? And now we're just continuing to traumatize them and then make them uncomfortable on set and exploit them. I think another big thing is aftercare. So I'm in the middle of a development project right now, and I'm negotiating, right? And of course they want to pay me peanuts and, like, that's cute, but that's not what we're doing in 2025. And so I'm a professional and I'm worth it. And so I asked these people, I said, great, what's your psychological aftercare package look like? And they just sat there blinking like they had no clue, because it doesn't exist. It needs to exist. I'm going to be the one to create it. People that are either interviewed in, like, a true crime entertainment way, or even reality show contestants. Anyone whose real identity is being used and commodified and publicized needs help afterwards when that comes out, because no one is doing that.
- [49:42]
Jesse Buttafuoco
It's a similar situation to the one we hear so often these days. Someone signs their life away to be on a reality show having no real idea but they've gotten themselves into and how exploited they're about to become. I have a lot of friends who are on various reality shows and a few who are Bravo housewives. And I'll be honest, some of them would say that their lives have been imploded, destroyed. Like divorce and horrible things left in their wake and no empathy from the public. I mean, America's like, so what? They signed up for it, they put themselves there, they're famous, so they deserve to be picked apart and vilified. But the reality behind the reality is that it is so much more complicated than that. A lot of times regular people who enter these situations don't have any sort of ability to really navigate this in a way that maybe preserves their dignity and supports their well being. And Jesse wants to change this.
- [50:41]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
When we talk about reality TV stars and true crime victims, you know, these are real people with their real identity and now they are becoming a part of this like entertainment community complex, right? And I think what people don't understand is that these public images of people are now cemented in stone forever. And those that social representation of people is completely curated and manipulated by producers and by content creators. And actually my best friend who's here with me right now, she is a reality TV producer and is privy to all of the behind the scenes type of stuff. And honestly, hearing her stories is part of why I'm doing what I'm doing to take down this part of the industry.
- [51:23]
Jesse Buttafuoco
It was then that Jesse's friend, who had been quietly sitting in the corner, piped up and chimed in. Of course she could only do so anonymously as she explained to us that she sits under a mountain of non disclosure agreements. But she begins to spill the tea. She shares on experiences where producers would talk proudly amongst themselves about how to get people to cry on camera and how to, quote, break them. What are their weak points? She told us about one executive producer who purposely dehydrated and kept his head talent drunk for three days because he knew by the fourth day they'd be so drained that they'd crumble. On camera, as her producer buddy shares it all, Jesse nods her head at some parts and shakes it in disgust at others. Then she turns to me.
- [52:19]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
That's the part where I'm trying to like make some differences here. I can't tell you. I've been in rooms before where I've told my story and they're like, can you do that again but cry this time? Or like things like that. And it's just like, those are violations of ethics, like these are human rights. These people have already been victimized, especially in the true crime genre. We don't need to continue to traumatize them. They have a great story where we want to tell it. You don't need to make it better or worse by using these techniques. And I'm doing a lot of research on ethics in true crime and reality TV. That's what I'm focusing on on my PhD. And it turns out ethical guidelines exist. People just don't abide by them. And that's where I feel we need to start making some changes. And I don't know if that's. That's through legislation. I have a dream one day of creating the Protection of Crime Victims in the Media Act. And that's why I'm in this PhD program now, is because I am providing the research and the science and the data that these exploitative practices in reality TV and true crime are causing psychological damage to the people at the center of the story. And that's not okay. And so if we prove that by science, then maybe some. Somebody will do something about it, and then maybe I'll be on Capitol Hill with that, too. And now that I'm out of the gutter and on my way, I'm not letting anyone else go through what I went through.
- [53:40]
Jesse Buttafuoco
And that is the point of this show. One year in, I've realized this. If sharing people's stories can help others avoid some of the same pitfalls and get right to the gratitude, then these are stories worth sharing.
- [53:57]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
And I couldn't do that without gratitude. For most of my life, I have just been dealing with whatever cards have been dealt, right? And I did it. And I used to do gratitude in a way of. Well, at least I don't have whatever. I would compare myself to people less than me, right? But that was the only form of gratitude that I would ever kind of do. And it wasn't till I had my breakdown and I got into recovery and I. And I learned. I had to learn how to be grateful for breathing. I had to learn how to be grateful for the warm blanket in my bed and that I wasn't on the street. And I had to be grateful for this shooting and my life and whatever I had to find. Gratitude. I had so much anger at the time, too. I remember having to get two different journals. I had to get my fuck you journal and my gratitude journal because I felt bad putting all the negative stuff with the good stuff. But like, that gratitude journal is what saved my life. That gratitude journal is what got me humble, is what really had me connect with who I am on this planet. What is my purpose? You know, going from being suicidal and purposeless, finding my purpose was. Was huge for me. And I think gratitude got me there, Spirituality got me there. Growing my faith bone got me There, But I couldn't have gotten there if I didn't start at the very bottom. And, you know, people say, how do you know you're at your bottom? It's when you stop digging. And so I finally stopped digging, and then I started just building steps out of that shit. And now I'm, like, up here and we're thriving, and, like, I don't even know what the hell is gonna happen in the future, but I know it's something because I'm living in my purpose. I'm feeling very called to do this, you know? So, like, let's go. And if you need a 5, 6, 7, 8, I can do that too.
- [55:33]
Jesse Buttafuoco
I'm so grateful to be on this magical, spiritual, sparkleful journey with you.
- [55:39]
Mary Jo Buttafuoco
Well, I'm glad you're also elevating my voice. I can't tell you how many people have disregarded my voice. I have been told by someone at caa, which is one of the biggest talent agencies, that, oh, we're not interested in the perspective of the child's crime, or we're not interested in the child's perspective of this crime. So I have been denied a voice for a very long time, and once I stopped forcing it on people is when people started to want to listen. And I will tell you this. I never told my story for the the longest time, especially not on a public platform like this, because I hated it. It was a shit story. My parents are known for a sex scandal. There's gun violence involved, and it's embarrassing, and it's people making jokes, and it was just so horrible and shameful my entire life. And it wasn't until I met my best friend right here who didn't know who I was at all. She just moved in my apartment complex and we became friendly. And then eventually she found out who I was, and it was just like, wait, what? And then she would naturally have some questions. But being a reality show producer as well, and she's a story supervisor, she taught me the value of my story. She taught me that it wasn't just this shit, shameful story, that it was actually inspirational and like, my story, right? Not my parents story. What happened to me, what happened to my mental and emotional health, all of my trials and tribulations, all of my resiliency that I've had to show throughout my life. And then she really empowered me to start doing that on a public level, whether that was, you know, pitching a documentary or going on podcasts or speaking up in AA and just telling my story and embracing it. For the shit that it was because it almost took me out. Like when I tell you I was ready to kill myself, I was ready to kill myself. And I just can't tell you how grateful I am now to be alive and to be able to share this story so vulnerably and powerfully. And knowing that this is not the thing that defines me, but it's the thing that will catapult me to making significant change in this world. I really do believe that there's a belief that we choose our life path before we get down here. And I don't know what the hell my soul was thinking, but I'm starting to think that I'm starting to see the goodness of it. You know, my entire life was chaos and I'm now just starting to live in peace.
- [57:57]
Jesse Buttafuoco
And your peace is going to be making your mess your message. You can only do that once you've healed. Jesse, I am so excited that you are finding peace and that you've been brave enough to make your mess your message. This is what we do on the Gratitudology podcast. But you can only do that once you've healed and. And we're so proud of you and your journey and your ability to not only survive, but to thrive. If you want to learn more about what Jesse is up to, you can follow her on social media. It is her name, Essie Buttafuco on all platforms. It's also important to mention should you or anyone you know be experiencing thoughts of self harm, you can contact the National Suicide and Crisis Hotline by calling or texting 988 or visiting 988 like lifeline.org I want to send out a huge thank you to my thousands of loyal listeners. Maybe a few new ones today as well. Welcome to this space. We're grateful you're here and I'm grateful to have had the honor of sharing these amazing stories with you all for the last year. And let me tell you, you ain't seen nothing yet because we only just begun. Don't forget to follow me @jamiehess on Instagram and follow the podcast Ratitudology on Instagram and YouTube. That's all for today. Remember, if you like what you heard, if it impacted you in any way, and if you think it's a message other people in your life might like to hear, I'd be so grateful if you'd give me five stars. Leave a quick little comment. Those things really help. And share this podcast with your friends, either on social media or just word of mouth. I'm on a mission for us all to help each other focus on expanding our attention towards what's good in the world, rather than focusing on what's bad one person at a time. If we all did that, even to our own little sphere of influence, the world has the potential to be a much more radically awesome place. Stick with me, friends, and I've got your back. We're in this together, and it's a great day to see the greatness in the day. See you next time. The Gratitudology Podcast is written, executive produced and hosted by me, Jamie Hess, sound design and studio production by Gotham Production Studios. Our theme song is Maze by Hills, sung by Nadia Ali. And don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Gratitude Judology.
- [60:42]
Jamie Hess
That's all for this episode. We'll be back next week. Thanks for listening.