When Modeling Became Dangerous

Summary

Podcast Summary: Infamous (Campside Media/Sony Music)

Episode: "When Modeling Became Dangerous" (Premiere of Model Wars)

Date: October 23, 2025
Host: Vanessa Grigoriadis
Reporters: Vanessa Grigoriadis, Gabriel Sherman, Natalie Robehmed

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Overview & Main Theme

This episode launches the Model Wars mini-series, exploring the transformation—and dark side—of the 1980s modeling industry through the incredible real-life story of Paul Fisher, a brash San Fernando Valley kid who rapidly ascended to become a model agent entangled with shady money, violence, and the relentless pursuit of beauty. Using Fisher’s flamboyant and sometimes shocking anecdotes, the episode sets the stage for an exploration of power, exploitation, and personal transformation within the hidden world behind catwalks and magazine covers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Paul Fisher's Beginnings and the 1980s Modeling World

• The episode opens with a portrait of 1984 New York, where Paul Fisher, a twenty-something with big hair and big confidence, is running a high-fashion modeling agency backed by a dangerous man, Larry Lind.
• Vanessa Grigoriadis: "Paul’s done pretty well in just a little time in New York…representing some of the most beautiful women on the planet and making a buck. But today is not a good day for Paul." (01:57)

2. Break with Dangerous Backers

• Paul tries to disentangle himself from Larry Lind, whom he describes as violent and menacing.
• Paul Fisher: "I've seen Larry and his boys hurt people badly, badly, badly. Put him in the hospital." (03:12)
• Paul recounts the anxiety of telling Larry he wants out and Larry’s seemingly benign response, which Paul immediately suspects is a ploy: "I got off the phone. I pissed my pants. I knew it. He was coming after me." (04:00)

3. Violence and Coercion in the Modeling Industry

• Paul is ambushed and threatened in his hotel room by Larry’s enforcers—a harrowing, explicit story underscoring the physical danger behind the glamour:
• Paul Fisher: "…five of Larry's that I knew real well. Goons came out of the closets and they put me down on the ground...they took a gun and they shoved it in My ass. I was scared out of my mind." (05:27)

4. Modeling as a Reflection of Culture

• Vanessa contextualizes Paul’s story as representative of a broader craze to define—and profit from—beauty. She draws parallels between the superficial, consumerist world of the San Fernando Valley and the shifting landscape of the modeling industry.
• Vanessa Grigoriadis: "Today, you could say that search for perfection in the female form has migrated to Instagram...But that classic hunt to define beauty and profit from your version of it is the same." (06:37)

5. Paul’s Upbringing: Sex, Rebellion, and Manipulation

• Childhood and adolescent tales reveal a combination of natural charisma and deviousness—such as forging report cards or being unrepentantly promiscuous:
• Paul Fisher: "Excuse my language, you guys. I hate saying this word in front of you. I was banging every girl on the planet." (10:33)
• His mother, Monica, is both exasperated and proud:
• Monica Fisher: "He had the best heart going. He had such a good heart. And he just was very, very mischievous. Very mischievous." (13:20)

6. College and Calling: From Law School Aspirations to Modeling via ‘American Gigolo’

• After a college career notable more for seduction than study, Paul’s epiphany comes when he and his friends watch American Gigolo and decide they, too, want in on the high life:
• Paul Fisher: "We could do that. We could do that. Let's check it out. Let's go. Let's do that." (16:33)

7. Paul’s Origin Story in LA Nightlife, Meeting Larry Lind

• Paul narrates the initial foray into LA’s glamorous scene, culminating in the fateful meeting with Larry Lind at the Beverly Hills Hotel, who is immediately captivated by Paul’s way with women:
• Paul Fisher: "...he just says, listen, come out with me tonight. We'll go to a couple clubs, you know, I'll get you if you like pot, I'll get you potty. You like blow? I'll get you a blow." (25:13)

8. The Make-or-Break Deal: Ferrari Joyride and Dropping Out

• Paul is asked to drive Larry’s Ferrari to Houston, the decision marking his departure from his former life and the heartbreak of his mother:
• Monica Fisher: "Paul was actually the only one that I was so disappointed. He was afraid to tell me..." (29:13)

9. Life in the Fast Lane: Houston, Model Parties, and 'Mob' Connections

• The Houston scene is a swirl of oil-boom decadence, drugs, and rumored mob ties:

• Michael Fitzmaurice: "There's a rumor that his family was mob connected…his great uncle was Frank Costello, who's the person that they wrote the Godfather about." (35:31)

• Paul’s role becomes explicit: procures women for Larry’s parties, gets pulled into a cycle of excess, nightlife, and an ever-growing dependency on powerful, unpredictable men.

• Paul Fisher: "We just started partying every night that's what he does…Let's have a party. And that's what we did for two months." (37:09)

10. From Party Boy to Model Agent

• Larry instructs Paul to open a modeling agency in New York, setting up the next phase of Paul’s journey—stepping into the “ugly business of beauty,” rife with ruthlessness and exploitation.
• Paul Fisher: "I'm 20 years old. I'm. I'm a freaking. I'm doing drugs. I'm smoking pot. I'm just making love to every beautiful Texan girl…And I thought everything was mine. I bet, looking back, not none of it was mine…it was a freaking illusion." (38:01)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On violence in the business:

  • Paul Fisher: "I've seen Larry and his boys hurt people badly, badly, badly. Put him in the hospital." (03:12)

• On leaving Larry Lind:

  • Paul Fisher: "I told Larry, I said, hey, man, I love you and I care about you...You gotta let me do this myself. And he said, okay, Fish…Go do your own thing…Now I don't. No problem. I got off the phone. I pissed my pants." (04:03)

• On ambition and belonging:

  • Paul Fisher: "I felt like I belong there. Like I was made for this shit." (21:22)

• Paul’s signature charm (according to friend):

  • David Churton: "His whole thing was…he would look at her and dismissively put his head down. And then he would stare right back at her again…And sure enough, this woman...ends up. He takes her out of the bar in the Ferrari." (31:26)

• Modeling industry as a war zone:

  • Paul Fisher: "It's a freaking war zone. These people are animals. There's no integrity, there's no loyalty. That's all that's gone on." (40:14)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Paul Fisher’s dilemma and split with Larry Lind: 01:57 – 06:03
• Childhood, high school, and family background: 09:25 – 13:31
• Sexual escapades and early lessons in seduction: 13:35 – 16:12
• American Gigolo inspiration, turning point: 16:33 – 17:01
• Meeting Larry Lind & LA nightlife: 20:01 – 26:22
• Ferrari to Houston and dropping out: 29:13 – 30:49
• Houston parties, Larry’s rumored mob links: 35:13 – 36:32
• Opening a modeling agency, the industry's brutality: 38:01 – 40:24

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Tone and Style

The episode is frank, confessional, and sometimes raw in its language, blending dark humor with hard-hitting revelations about the business of beauty. Vanessa Grigoriadis brings journalistic objectivity and personal familiarity with the industry, while Paul Fisher’s boisterous, occasionally shocking storytelling drives the narrative.

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Conclusion

"When Modeling Became Dangerous" explores the collision of glamour, power, ambition, and danger in the 1980s modeling world—using Paul Fisher’s wild ride from California kid to New York modeling impresario as a lens into an industry where beauty, exploitation, violence, and aspiration are deeply entwined. The stage is set for future installments to delve deeper into the cutthroat wars, the models, and the cultural shifts that defined—and nearly destroyed—Paul and the business he came to dominate.

Transcript

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

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[Producer Lily Houston Smith]

Hey Infamous listeners, producer Lily Houston Smith here. This week we have a special announcement which is that Vanessa has a brand new series and we think it'll be right up your alley. It's called Model Wars. On the surface, the 1980s modeling world was champagne and catwalks. But underneath drugs, sex and Shady Money. Over 10 episodes, Vanessa follows the chaotic story of Paul Fisher, a young outsider with a million dollar backer. He dives headfirst into the fray and discovers that there's a dark side to beauty. We're going to play the first episode for you right now. If you want to listen to more, we have a link in the show Notes to the rest of the series Campsite Media.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

It'S 1984 and Paul Fisher is in an elevator at the Wellington Hotel in New York City. Going up to his room, he's just a guy from the other side of the country. A 20 something from LA's San Fernando Valley, rocking a Jufro. He doesn't have much going for him, honestly. He's fueled almost entirely by his own absurd self confidence. But Paul's done pretty well in just a little time in New York. He might look like a nobody, but he's heading up a mile. Modeling agency for high fashion Runway models. This guy with a bad haircut now walking down this semi decent hotel hallway is representing some of the most beautiful women on the planet and making a buck. But today is not a good day for Paul. A few hours before he came back to the Wellington Hotel, Paul Decided to make a phone call, one that he'd been dreading. It was to the backer of his. His modeling agency. The guy putting up the money. This guy's name is Larry Lind. And Paul says he's quite unsavory.

[Paul Fisher]

I've seen Larry and his boys hurt people badly, badly, badly. Put him in the hospital. And there was always a pattern. First he'd smile and they would think, like, it's cool, he's okay. And then he would send the boys in and they would just fucking knock the kids out. I watched the shit. That was part of it.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Paul doesn't want to be at Larry's modeling agency anymore. They've been friends, brawlers at each other's side, Both not developing the best reputations. And now Paul wants to go off on his own, to go legit, to conquer the modeling industry on his terms, without Larry. So earlier this day, he made that call.

[Paul Fisher]

I told Larry, I said, hey, man, I love you and I care about you and you're my brother and I love you, but. And I appreciate you so much for turning me on to this world. But I gotta do this myself. You gotta let me go. You gotta let me do my thing, brother. I'm good at this shit. You gotta let me do it. And I'm begging you. You gotta let me out. You gotta, you gotta. You say you care about me. You got. Let me. Let me do this. And he said, okay, Fish, you got it. You got it, man. You go do your own thing. Pack your shit. Go do your own thing. Start your own thing. Or have somebody else come in and run this shit. Go do it, man. It's okay. I feel you. I care for you. Now I don't. No problem. I got off the phone. I pissed my pants. I knew it. He was coming after me.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

It's a tense moment for Paul. And after he hung up, he went to blow off some steam at one of New York's hottest nightclubs. A CNB scene and fuckin be fucked. A place called Area. Bianca Jagger could be on the dance floor. Andy Warhol standing by in a booth. It's a place. A guy like Paul Fisher would love to spend his last night on Earth. But he had to go back to his hotel sometime.

[Paul Fisher]

And then I came home to my hotel room that night at the Wellington Hotel and five of Larry's that I knew real well. Goons came out of the closets and they put me down on the ground and they took down my pants and they took a gun and they shoved it in My ass. I was scared out of my mind. And then the final door opened and it was Larry.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Larry's a big guy, a former football player. Paul knows he was an idiot to think he could get out of business with him so easy. Paul's future, if he has one, is working for and finding women for Larry Lind. From I Heart Podcasts and Campside Media. I'm Vanessa Grigoriadis and this is Model Wars. This is Paul Fisher's story. But it's also the untold story of what the modeling industry is really like. The ugly business of beauty. It's full of competition, backstabbing, abuse and violence. It's the background clashes behind famous models strutting on runways, posing in magazines and catalogs, being in movies and television, getting displayed on the racks in the checkout aisle of the supermarket so that even some poor sucker who just wants to buy a box of Cheerios in 1982 knows exactly what true beauty is supposed to look like. As a journalist for Vanity Fair who knows her way around a nightclub, I've been around the modeling industry for a long time. I've met the huge models that Paul would eventually sign. Stephanie Seymour, Naomi Campbell, Carrie Young. Even as big as they were, they still needed someone like Paul Fisher to get them on the COVID of Vogue or land them a Chanel ad. You had to have an agent like Paul and be in the right place at the right time to reach the mountaintop. Today, you could say that search for perfection in the female form has migrated to Instagram. Everyone firing up their iPhones and launching themselves into the void that is the Internet. But that classic hunt to define beauty and profit from your version of it is the same. It makes sense that Paul Fisher would go on to become a powerful model agent. Models set the mark for what we're aspiring to as a culture. The reflecting back our aspirations and desires. And Paul has always just been so attuned to what the culture wants. He's such a product of his era and its values. He grew up in fertile ground for a model agent. The San Fernando Valley in Los Angeles. This was in the 1970s and the Valley was a vapid, superficial consumerist paradise. It's hot on the asphalt and there's lots of strip malls now. Frank Saba put out his song Valley Girl as an anti consumerist anthem in 1982, but no one got the message. The song became a chart topping hit and it spread the insane lingo of the Valley far and wide, like, oh my God. Fast Times at Ridgemont High came out that same year and solidified the Valley's reputation for casual sex and good times at all costs.

[Monica Fisher (Paul's mother)]

Hey, bud, let's party.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Paul grew up in a modest home in the Valley.

[Paul Fisher]

You know, at the time of Valley girls and Valley boys and all, you know, that's, that's where I think I got my mullet.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

The Jewish kid with a curly mullet. Thank God every fashion comes back around again so this haircut won't be lost to history.

[Paul Fisher]

We didn't grow up with money, that's for sure. We, we had no cash. There were, you know, my, my mom and dad, they were. They were always struggling for money, mullet and all.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Paul was a true classic American high school archetype. The star baseball player dating the prettiest girl in school. Her name was Sue.

[Paul Fisher]

We won class couple in junior high school and high school. She was my girlfriend for like five years and she was in junior high school. She was definitely the prettiest girl in high school. Everybody wanted to meet Sue. She was really beautiful.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

As we'll learn, Paul is persistent when it comes to women. And he snuck into Sue's house enough and was likable enough with the family that they just eventually let him stay over. But if all this is sounding wholesome, don't worry.

[Paul Fisher]

Excuse my language, you guys. I hate saying this word in front of you. I was banging every girl on the planet.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Paul was not faithful to his class couple running mate. And this gets in an early paradox of Paul's life with women. He was the devoted, protective older brother to two younger sisters.

[Paul Fisher]

I would treat my sisters different than I would treat other girls. You know, I was a pig in high school, a whore in high school. I was. I didn't care. I didn't care about anything except, you know, my own selfish desires.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

And Paul turned out this way despite having a saint of a mother.

[Monica Fisher (Paul's mother)]

My name is Monica Fisher. I'm 78 years. 77 years old. 87. Oh, I forgot. Forgot how old I was. It's wishful thinking, frankly.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Monica knew that Paul was going to be a child from the beginning.

[Monica Fisher (Paul's mother)]

Where my oldest son was very quiet and reserved and liked to read and was just very easy. Paul was all over the place he climbed. He didn't stop moving and chattering.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Paul had his own sense of justice, especially when his mother and father, a wholesale liquor distributor with a temper, were fighting.

[Monica Fisher (Paul's mother)]

I didn't know how to get out of my marriage. I was scared to death. I was scared of him probably.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Paul was always getting disciplined at school. But his mom tried to let it slide because he was getting good grades. This trade off is familiar to anyone in the modeling industry. You present yourself a certain way as intelligent, beautiful, whatever, and as long as you perform that ideal version of yourself for the camera, you can get up to all sorts of antics behind the scenes. It's working well for Paul, these good grades in exchange for permission to act out. But then one day, Monica gets called by one of Paul's teachers for the one millionth time.

[Monica Fisher (Paul's mother)]

And he said to me his grades were not good, and he was. He would come in and entertain the kids, you know, and interrupt the class and et cetera, et cetera. And I said, well, I don't know why his grades aren't good. His grade, I get his report cards and he's on the honors list. And the teacher looked at me and said, no, it's not on the honors list. Let me show you his braids. Mrs. Fisher, I don't know what you're looking at. The teacher said to me. And I went in, and it turns out he had gotten blank report forms and he had forged them. And I had no idea. He said, you, son, Paul, he's like a green apple. He's tart. He just makes me chase him all over the place. The green apple is a pain in the ass.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Paul may have been tart, and he may have been a pig, but he was also a good guy. Just ask his mother.

[Monica Fisher (Paul's mother)]

He had the best heart going. He had such a good heart. And he just was very, very mischievous. Very mischievous.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

And if his dad didn't find that irresistible, he'd find someone who did.

[Paul Fisher]

So because my house was kind of volatile and my dad was kind of volatile, I would go down in the summertimes in my 11th and 12th grade year. And my best friend, his dad, was in the hair business. The hair business is the horniest business in the freaking world. They're freaking fucking perverts. They're pervs. They're working on your hair. They're pervs. The hair business is full of pervs. He introduced me to the hair world, and they were just these older women, and he was banging everybody. And it was like I watched him, and people like him became like my freaking role model. Bringing home different women all the time. He would just. Just would teach us. You know, he'd be smoking pot with him all the time, getting stone with him all the time, and he'd be just like, you know, he just was a player.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Paul learned quickly that getting women wasn't a competition. Teamwork was encouraged. So he and his friend from high school got creative.

[Paul Fisher]

He was like the star football player. I was a star baseball player. And I remember just we would go home, you know, to my house and bring girls home. Cheerleaders home all the time. Sometimes we'd make love to the same girl. I remember my dad walked in one day. He thought I was gay.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Paul and his friend, son of the hairdresser, were having a threesome with a girl.

[Paul Fisher]

And he's like, what the fuck are you doing? And we're like, hey, get out of here.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Paul's father just never understood him.

[Paul Fisher]

We're not doing each other. We're just with her.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Getting girls was always Paul's one true talent and his overall reason for being this trend persisted when he enrolled in college at UC Santa Barbara.

[Paul Fisher]

I knew that was the school I wanted to go to. Why UC Santa Barbara Freaking girls.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

David Churton was one of Paul's college pals.

[David Churton (Paul's friend)]

I think when I met him, he had a book with like, hundreds of names of, quote, conquests. I don't want to say how you put it. And I was shocked when I saw.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

That Some colleges have honors dorms. Paul was in the honors dorm for fucking.

[David Churton (Paul's friend)]

There was an off campus dorm called Francisco Torres that was like a really cool place. There was a pool. I know he lived there. I couldn't get into that. So I was in another off campus dorm. But that tower was referred to as Sodom and Gomorrah Tower by everybody.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Despite the distractions, Paul does well in college. He makes it all the way to the final semester of his senior year.

[Paul Fisher]

I've got 12 units left. I have a 3.96 grade point average. I'm gonna go to law school, become a freaking lawyer.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

And then one day, Paul has David and a few other friends over to watch a movie.

[Paul Fisher]

And we're watching this guy, Richard Gere in American Gigolo. And he's like, he's cool. He's like, all the girls like him. He's just. He's just a cool cat. He's like this. He's like, he's a player. And people are paying him for sexual. And me and my boys look at each other and we go, we could do that. We could do that. Let's check it out. Let's go. Let's do that.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Paul knows he's finally found his calling.

[Producer Lily Houston Smith]

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[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

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[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

For fall after watching Richard Gere do his thing in American Gigolo, Paul David and the rest of the boys decide to drive from Santa Barbara down the coast all the way to la.

[David Churton (Paul's friend)]

We had a cool yellow Volkswagen with flared wheels. It was like very cool for what it was.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

They apparently miss the part of American Gigolo that's a disturbing meditation on the cost of desire. For them. It's damn near a manifesto, or at least it's a roadmap.

[David Churton (Paul's friend)]

I Think it was probably something that's just absolutely consistent with where his head was when that movie came out and where we were at that time.

[Paul Fisher]

Often in these big hotels you run into women from foreign countries who may need a translator or a guide.

[Monica Fisher (Paul's mother)]

How much would you have charged me?

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

There's this iconic scene in the movie where the Richard Gere character meets a beautiful older woman who's played by model turned actress Lauren Hutton. It's set in the lounge of the Beverly Hills Hotel, the famous freaking Polo.

[Paul Fisher]

Lounge, which is the same place that Richard Gere was in the movies. And we're looking at each other and we're like, we're like, this is it, man.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Paul and the boys make it to the entrance and they walk through rows of pink banquette booths that have laced lampshades. There's warm, seductive light shining on the tables.

[Paul Fisher]

It's just class. It's full on class and elegance. And I'm like, I'm just a kid from. I'm living in Santa Barbara, driving my bike, wearing shorts every day and a cut off T shirt every day. And I'm looking around going, I'm digging this. This is money. Look at this shit. I grew up, remember, I grew up. My mom's making Hamburger Helper every other night. This is money. They're all looking like money. Like they all got money. They all, they got tans, they got, you know, bouffant freaking hairdos. They got, you know, shirts that are open with gold in there. We freaking, we've died and gone to heaven. There's money and there's older women and people are all flirting with each other, you know.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

And right there in the Polo Lounge, Paul has a revelation.

[Paul Fisher]

I felt like, like I belong there. Like, like, like I was made for this shit.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

And now it's time for Paul to get to work. His strategy is rather simple. Rather work a day, really, but it's highly effective. You have to knock on a hundred doors to just get a couple sales.

[Paul Fisher]

I'm going up to every single one. Cause I know you knock on enough of them, three or four of them are going to say, you're a really interesting young man. And let's go to my hotel room. Because, you know, maybe the first four or five you're going to hear no's, but sooner or later you're going to hear somebody go, yeah, I'm in. It's a numbers game. That's the game.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

So he's talking to a lot of women. The night's going well.

[Paul Fisher]

We're having a great Time. And then I see these people staring at me. I see this table and they're pointing at me and they're staring at me. And it's dudes.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Not the people Paul is here for. But they just keep looking at him.

[Paul Fisher]

They got gold on them. A couple of the guys were really big, big, big beefy dudes.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Like former football player beefy.

[Paul Fisher]

And then one of the beefy dudes walks up to me and he says, hey, my boss wants to meet you. And I'm like, yeah, thanks, but I'm straight. He's no, no, no, no, just come on, just come meet my boss. And I'm like, yeah, that's not gonna happen, man. I'm straight. Not into it. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

But the beefy emissary was persistent. He came up to Paul two or three times asking him to come meet his boss.

[Paul Fisher]

The guy that kept coming up to me, you could see he's like a bodyguard. He's like a veto looking guy. Like a big, huge freaking animal with just, you know, gold chains. Just a beefcake dude. Big freaking dude. And I just, you know, I'm just not into it.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

By then, Paul's ready to call it a night. Not bad for his first night in the big leagues. The next day, Paul says he gets back in his yellow Volkswagen. He's alone this time. He's supposed to go meet one of the women he met the previous night.

[Paul Fisher]

About a mile away from the Beverly Hills hotel on Sunset Boulevard, which is like, there's nothing there. The freaking VW breaks down.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

So Paul says he huffs it to the Polo Lounge to use the payphone. He's crashed out of the glamorous life he got a taste of last night. He's just some schlub using a payphone, looking for some help with his busted car.

[Paul Fisher]

I'm pissed off. I'm in no mood. Who walks up to me? The big freaking bouncer. The. The veto dude. He said, hey, hey, hey. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm on the phone. Aaa what, what, what, what, what? And he waits till I'm off the phone. He's very cordial. He's. He's polite. And he goes, hey, listen, my boss wants to talk to you.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

But it's what the boss wants to talk to Paul about that catches his attention.

[Paul Fisher]

He watched you last night, how you were with all these girls and these women, and you just like, you just would walk up to everybody and anybody and he just wants to meet you. Can you meet the guy? Just spend five Minutes and meet the guy. And I'm in a pissed off mood now. I'm waiting for aaa. So I said, okay, okay, okay, okay. Who is he? Show me. What? What? So I walk up to the guy. His name's Larry. Linda.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

In American Gigolo, in the scene where Richard Gere meets Lauren Hutton at the Polo Lounge, he takes a seat at her table. And they're framed with that almost smoldering low warm light from the lamp. They're like moths to the flame. Mr. K would like another drink. It's that moment when you meet someone and your life is forever changed. And although Paul is very into women, exclusively into women, meeting Larry Lynd is kind of a moment of seduction for Paul. Because despite being a beefy freakin animal with male sexual organs, it turned out that Larry did have something Paul wanted very badly.

[Paul Fisher]

That Larry Lynn looks like a. An older version of Elvis Presley. Really cool hair. You know, you could see he's put together, you see he's rich. You could see, you know, the gold, big gold watch. He's got a couple of bodyguards on each side. And we just start talking and he just says, listen, come out with me tonight. We'll go to a couple clubs, you know, I'll get you if you like pot, I'll get you potty. You like blow? I'll get you a blow. We'll go out tonight. You'll come out with me and my bodyguards. We'll go out to a club. I heard about this place called Voila. You'll walk in, you'll sit with me, have a couple of drinks, we'll talk to the girls. Just come out with me one night.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

The previous night, Paul had gone and played make believe in the Polo Lounge. He went on vacation in someone else's life. But this is Larry's life. He can do this whenever he wants. He holds the key and he's inviting Paul along.

[Paul Fisher]

Changed my life. I never went back. So I went out with him that night, had a great time, brought girls back to the Beverly Hills bungalows. I was doing blow with him, getting high.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

And then somehow things get even better.

[Paul Fisher]

A few hours later. He said, I just bought a brand new Ferrari 308 GTS. It's downstairs. I'm gonna give you 500 bucks and a plane ticket home. Do me a favor. Drive my Ferrari to Houston, Texas. For me?

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Me?

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Shockingly, Paul says yes.

[Producer Lily Houston Smith]

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[Jonathan Van Ness]

It's Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. With Jonathan Van Ness, it's easy to feel hopeless. But we don't have to stay there. I'm all about finding places where we can turn that energy into hope and into action. One of those places is Americans United for Separation of Church and State. America United, or au, is this quiet but mighty force working every day to preserve freedom without favor and equality without exception. I am so obsessed with that tagline. And let me tell you something, honey, that wall between church and state, paper thin. It's got a leak, honey. It's one of the last safeguards protecting so many of our rights. So right now, from bodily autonomy to LGBTQ + rights to the future of public schools, to me, this is about creating a world where everyone gets to live as themselves. As long as you're not harming anyone else. Now is not the time to curl up and hide. It's the time to link arms and stand together for a better future. Join Americans United for Separation of Church and State and their growing movement because church, state separation protects us all. Learn more and join the [e-mail] better. Let's go. Americans United.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

On the long drive from Beverly Hills to Houston, it may have occurred to Paul that he's now one of those people who can point to the exact moment he broke his mother's heart. This joyride to Texas conflicted with Paul's prior obligation, his last semester of college.

[Monica Fisher (Paul's mother)]

I didn't even go to college. I wanted so badly. But girls at that time, no, no, you learn how to type. Go to night school and learn how to type. So if your husband, when you get married, if you have a. If he ever needs help, you can always be a secretary. That's why I made sure that all my children were going to go to college no matter what I did. And Paul was actually the only one that I was so disappointed. He was afraid to tell me. He drove up in this red. I forget what, a Ferrari or a little red sports car with a friend of his. And I knew the semester had just started. And he says, mom, I'm packing my bag. What are you talking about? You're in school.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

But somehow school couldn't compete with Larry Lind. Paul recruited his pal David to join him.

[David Churton (Paul's friend)]

When I came out of LAX and there was Paul Fisher sitting in this brand new Target top, burgundy red, doesn't even have license plates on it. 308 GTS Ferrari. And I get in the car, and he shows me he's got 500 bucks. He's got a bag of roll joints, and off we go.

[Paul Fisher]

I was picking up on girls in Santa Barbara on a $40 bike and an afro with a mullet. Now imagine that same guy with a Ferrari and 500 bucks. Like, are you kidding me? I'm not gonna take advantage of that.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Lock up your daughter. First stop, Tempe, Arizona.

[David Churton (Paul's friend)]

We went to this bar, went to get some food, and sure enough, he lands this girl who's like a Siamese twin who just got disengaged from her sister. And she was showing us a scar. It was like. I mean, a beautiful girl. I'm like, oh, no way. And sure enough, you know, he. You know, he spends time with her that night.

[Paul Fisher]

Now, I got all the. The tools I need to go to any bar, any restaurant and do any. I mean, what? So we stopped. Everywhere we stopped, we're getting laid.

[David Churton (Paul's friend)]

If there's a woman that is so beautiful that most guys kind of. They stare at her, they dribble around. They don't know what they're doing, right? And his whole thing was like. Instead of looking at her, like, every guy would. He would. Would look at her and dismissively put his head down. And then he would stare right back at her again, like, with this. And I used to call this the beam, because I've seen it work a thousand times, you know, like, no, I'm not just. Did he just, like, do that? And sure enough, this woman who was surrounded by her boyfriend and all kind of dudes at a bar, you know, like, ends up. He takes her out of the bar in the Ferrari. With the gravel road.

[Paul Fisher]

We're going into bars, pulling girls out of the bar cars. We got boys chasing us, freaking cowboys chasing us down the freaking road because we're pulling their chicks out of the place and we're driving away in our Ferrari. It was the craziest road trip you could ever possibly imagine. And then we drove into Houston, Texas and got there.

[David Churton (Paul's friend)]

It was giant, it felt huge. There was freeways, it was flat, it was hot, it was unimpressive from like a social, cultural perspective. It was Texas, it was trucks, it was guys, it was oyster bars and cold beer and buckets and it was pretty, pretty women with friggin tight dresses and you know, giant boobs sticking out.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

As it turned out, this was the peak of Houston's oil boom. It's been up and down ever since. But at the time the party was in full swing. They arrive at Larry's penthouse.

[David Churton (Paul's friend)]

We get there at the hilt condo and it's a frigging beautiful penthouse, top floor, massive. There's a butler, Travis, there's a maid, a service lady named Mary. Sweet as could be, they welcomed us.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Paul and David go out with some girls that night. And the next day Larry arrives.

[Paul Fisher]

Lisa's like, this is Paul Fisher, he's like the greatest with girls. And then David's his buddy. But you gotta watch Fisher. He's gonna take go out tonight watching with girls. You've never seen anything like it in your life. He'll walk up to anybody, everybody. He'll create parties for us. And I'm like what? He goes yeah, yeah, yeah. Here's what I want you to do.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Larry gives Paul his marching orders.

[Paul Fisher]

You're gonna get to limo, you're gonna go to this place called Boccaccio's. You're gonna go there and we're gonna create a party, bring back 10 girls back here. I'll get ounces of blow, lots of alcohol. I have a bartender. We'll have a big party here tonight. Cause you guys are here in town, I could do that.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

So Larry chauffeur drives them over to Boccaccio's, the highest of the high end clubs. An oil boom. It's a disco themed mansion with sculptural glass tabletops and these long inviting plush booths. They just make you want to snuggle up with dozens of close friends.

[Paul Fisher]

We're in Houston, Texas, it's 1981. They've never seen anything like me in their lives before. These are freaking cowboys. I got an afro, a mullet. My shirt pulled into my jacket, my collar up and I got two bodyguards, one on the left, one on the right. I pull up in a freaking limo. I walk up to the, you know, the red Rope. And I'm saying, I'm here. Let me open the freaking door. I want that table over there. Bring me a couple of bottles and you know, that's what I want. VIP it was like. Like I had done it a thousand times.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Paul delivers Larry exactly what he asked for.

[Paul Fisher]

I took 10 beautiful, beautiful girls that. No, don't get mad at me, you guys. This was me back then. I don't know if that could count to 10. They weren't the brightest, sharpest tools in the shed. They were like Houston Hicks, the fir 1980. These are not. These are like, not like girls from New York City.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

And Larry soon introduces Paul to his business partner, who's a man named Michael Fitzmaurice. Larry's the party guy, and Michael's the business guy. And Michael has an explanation, or rather a rumor of an explanation for Larry's gold chain. Veto. Mystique.

[Michael Fitzmaurice]

I'm just gonna put it like this. There's a rumor that his family was mob connected. There's a rumor that his great uncle was Frank Costello, who's the person that they wrote the Godfather about. He's the one that controlled all the judges and stuff. That's a rumor. I'm not gonna verify it, but it's.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

A R. So that's the rumored source of all this party money.

[Michael Fitzmaurice]

Then all of a sudden, there were women coming in the office, you know, 7, 8, 9, 10 a day. And then at the party apartment across the street that was filling up every Thursday, Friday and Saturday night, 250 to 500 people to 1,000 people. I mean, it was just unbelievable. And then Paul brought a couple of his friends. And then what they were doing, they were either in LA for a couple weeks, a month, or they were in Houston for a couple weeks, a month. And Larry was bouncing back and forth because he had to deal with me, because I was screaming and yelling, saying, this is nuts.

[David Churton (Paul's friend)]

It was awesome. I mean, we thought it was great. It was like, you know, the party was on all the time. You know, you wanted to bring a girl a dozen roses at a bar that you were trying to like. Larry Lynn thought he saw this girl. He really, really pounding club. Everything's going on. He's like wanting to send her some flowers. He would order out, and a person would come with a wheelbarrow full of roses and bring the whole wheelbarrow to her. It wasn't like you give a dozen flowers to the girl. I mean, it was that excessive that there was nonstop, whatever you want.

[Paul Fisher]

We just started partying every night that's what he does. He sends me out, go, Bring me back 10. Bring back 10. Let's have a party. Let's have a party. And that's what we did for two months.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

You know the saying, do what you love and have lots of rumored mob money, and you'll never work a day in your life.

[Michael Fitzmaurice]

Larry Lind had the most amazing eye for women of any one of them in my life. And then Paul showed up. And Paul and Larry were like, you know, all they would do is spend the day criticizing the look of this one, the criticizing look of that one. If this one's eyes were, you know, a perfect T and straight and forehead, and, you know, they're going through the whole thing, then, you know, this. This girl would be prettier and. And the. Paul was going out, meeting girls in Houston and bringing them in, and, you know, but Larry was enjoying that.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

This goes on for a few months.

[Paul Fisher]

I'm having the greatest time of my life. I'm 20 years old. I'm. I'm a freaking. I'm doing drugs. I'm smoking pot. I'm just making love to every beautiful Texan girl. It's like, this is the. I'm. This is the greatest moment of my life. And I thought everything was mine. I bet, looking back, not none of it was mine. I mean, it was none of it. It was a freaking illusion. And then one morning, Larry wakes up with blow all over his freaking nose. And he walks into the room and he says, hey, listen, I want you to go to New York City and open up a modeling agency for me and Michael. And I'm like, yeah, I don't know how to spell the word vogue. But yeah.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Maybe Paul could have tuned into the signals that this wasn't really his life and that going deeper into Larry's world would only put him further in debt. And maybe if Paul had finished that last semester of college, he would have learned the story of Icarus. I'm talking about the Greek who went higher and higher. Past the high school threesome, past the Ferrari road trip, past the conjoined twin hookup, flying ever higher over a mountain of cocaine, ignoring the warning signs of jingling gold chains of guys with bodyguards. Maybe he would have learned that Icarus eventually had a terrible fall. But how could he turn this down?

[Paul Fisher]

My job was try to figure out what other people would think is beautiful. In the modeling business, you can be.

[Michael Fitzmaurice]

With any name brand, fancy agency you.

[Producer Lily Houston Smith]

Want to be with.

[David Churton (Paul's friend)]

But does your agent love you?

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Till this day?

[Monica Fisher (Paul's mother)]

Honestly, if I see a measuring tape.

[Producer Lily Houston Smith]

I fucking freak out.

[Monica Fisher (Paul's mother)]

I, I cringe like I can't take it because it just brought me so much stress. Everybody was concentrating on the stars, quote, unquote stars. But you have all these models that need to work every day. They need to pay their bills.

[Michael Fitzmaurice]

Book, book, book, book. Come on, let's book. Let's make deals. Let's get models in. Let's get Go ghost.

[Paul Fisher]

It's a freaking war zone. These people are animals. There's no integrity, there's no loyalty. There's none of that. That's all that's gone on.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

That's next on Model Wars.

[Producer Lily Houston Smith]

Model wars was a production of iHeart Podcasts and Campside Media. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Model wars was executive produced and hosted by Vanessa Gregoriadis. Our senior writer was Michael Canyon Meyer. Julia K. Slovene was our producer and recorded recorder. Our senior producer was Lily Houston Smith and our assistant editor was Emma Siminoff. We had story and production help from Shoshi Shmulovitz, Ali Haney and Blake Rook. Our production manager was Ashley Warren and our studio recordist was Ewen Lai Trimuin. Sound design, mix and engineering by Mark McAdam. IHeart Podcast's executive producers were Jennifer Bassett and Katrina Norvell. The show was also executive produced by Rachel Winter in Campsite Media's Josh Dean, Adam Hoff and Matt Sher. If you'd like to access behind the scenes content from Model wars and Campside Media, please go to joincampside.com that's J-O-I-N C-A-M-P S I D E dot com. If you enjoyed Model wars, please rate and review the show wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks so much for listening. That's it for Model wars again. If you want to listen to more episodes, we have that link in the show notes. Next week we'll be back with an all new episode of Infamous. Thanks for listening.

[Paul Fisher]

And Doug, here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Narrator/Host (Vanessa Grigoriadis)]

Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Paul Fisher]

Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty.

[Monica Fisher (Paul's mother)]

Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings.

[Paul Fisher]

Very underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.