Inside Geneva: Episode Summary – "Books to Make You Think"
Release Date: March 4, 2025 Host: Imogen Foulkes Produced by: SWI swissinfo.ch
Introduction
In this compelling episode of Inside Geneva, host Imogen Foulkes delves into the intersection of literature and activism within the realms of global politics and human rights. Titled "Books to Make You Think," the episode spotlights two influential authors whose works shed light on critical issues facing the international community today. Imogen engages in thought-provoking conversations with Ken Roth, former head of Human Rights Watch, and Andrew Clapham, a renowned professor of international law at Geneva's Graduate Institute. Their discussions offer deep insights into the defense of human rights and the evolving laws of war.
Ken Roth on "Righting Wrongs"
Timestamp Highlights: [00:00] - [22:34]
Human Rights Defense Strategies
Ken Roth introduces his new book, Righting Wrongs, which serves as both a memoir and a strategic guide for human rights defenders. Roth emphasizes that defending human rights requires assertive, strategic action rather than passive advocacy. He states:
"The defense of human rights is not a matter of holding a candle and singing Kumbaya. It's about playing hardball... putting pressure on governments and making them realize that repression isn't paying because the consequences are so severe." ([03:15])
Case Study: Syria
Roth recounts his efforts to address human rights violations in Syria. Faced with the brutal Assad regime, Roth and Human Rights Watch shifted their focus to exerting pressure on Vladimir Putin, whose support was crucial for Assad's hold on power. By engaging with key international players like German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Emmanuel Macron, Roth successfully managed to halt the bombing of civilians in Idlib for several years. He remarks:
"With the right strategy, in this case focusing on Putin, we were able to stop the bombing of civilians in Syria." ([07:58])
Human Rights Watch's Influence
Roth discusses the importance of presenting governments with facts they may not previously acknowledge, thereby fostering informed policy decisions. He highlights the effectiveness of participating in high-profile forums such as the Munich Security Conference and the World Economic Forum to influence global leaders directly.
Challenges Faced: Focus on Israel
A significant portion of the discussion centers on Roth’s experiences with Israel. Despite being Jewish himself, Roth faces accusations of anti-Semitism due to his criticism of Israeli policies in the occupied territories. He defends his stance passionately:
"The idea that I'm anti-Semitic is ridiculous... I feel a certain responsibility to take on not just the duty of criticizing Israeli abuses, but also to take on the misuse of anti-Semitism." ([10:25])
Roth argues that conflating criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism undermines genuine efforts to combat real instances of anti-Semitism worldwide. He criticizes the Israeli government's strategy of deflecting criticism by invoking anti-Semitic sentiments, thereby weakening the global fight against true anti-Semitism.
Impact of Current Politics: The Trump Administration and China
Roth expresses deep concerns about the Trump administration's approach to human rights, particularly referencing Trump's proposal for the mass deportation of Palestinians, which he deems a blatant war crime ([14:13]). He also identifies China as the most significant threat to human rights today, citing the systemic repression of the Uyghurs and China's attempts to redefine international human rights standards to prioritize economic growth over civil and political freedoms ([15:56]).
Hope and Challenges for Human Rights Defenders
Despite the bleakness of current global trends, Roth remains cautiously optimistic. He points to the resilience of populations under autocratic regimes who continuously strive for democracy and accountable governance. He underscores the necessity for Western democracies to strengthen their own governance structures to prevent internal erosion of human rights and to support global movements against autocracy.
"The people who live under autocracy or are threatened with autocracy have shown time and time again that they stand for accountable government. They want democracy." ([19:56])
Andrew Clapham on "Simply War"
Timestamp Highlights: [25:08] - [37:26]
Modern Laws of War
Andrew Clapham introduces his award-winning book, Simply War, which critically examines the contemporary application of international law in warfare. Clapham challenges the traditional notions surrounding the legality and ethics of war, asserting that the modern legal framework seeks to minimize the justification for war itself.
"The charter doesn't even use the word war like that. It says it's illegal to use or threaten the use of force... You're only entitled to do what is necessary and proportionate to repel that attack." ([27:12])
Abolition of the Traditional Concept of War
Clapham argues that the concept of war as a legitimate means of resolving disputes has been fundamentally challenged since the establishment of the United Nations and the Geneva Conventions post-World War II. He contends that the traditional legal and moral justifications for war are increasingly untenable in the modern era.
"The whole institution of war is, in my view, no longer appropriate, even though we continue to use it day after day." ([27:12])
Crime of Aggression and Individual Responsibility
A groundbreaking aspect of Clapham's work is the introduction of the "crime of aggression," which holds not only states but also individual leaders accountable for initiating conflicts. This paradigm shift implies that soldiers and commanders can be prosecuted internationally for participating in wars of aggression.
"It's illegal to start an aggressive war that makes Russia's invasion of Ukraine illegal." ([28:09])
Application to Current Conflicts
Clapham applies his theories to current global conflicts, including the Russian invasion of Ukraine. He critiques proposals by figures like former U.S. President Trump, who suggested unilateral peace negotiations without involving Ukraine or European stakeholders, viewing such moves as naive and dangerous.
Impact of Policy Changes: Firing Military Lawyers
Clapham expresses alarm over actions such as the firing of military lawyers, which undermines the enforcement of the Geneva Conventions and international law within armed forces. He warns that without proper legal oversight, the likelihood of war crimes increases significantly.
"The idea that somehow the Geneva Conventions or the international law related to war crimes is too generous... is a disaster." ([34:18])
Legal Consequences and Universal Jurisdiction
Clapham highlights the rising use of universal jurisdiction, where individuals accused of war crimes can be prosecuted regardless of where the crimes were committed. He notes that soldiers and officials should be aware that their actions could lead to prosecution even years after conflicts end.
"There are prosecutors now around the world who are prosecuting people using what's known as universal jurisdiction." ([37:26])
Challenges in Upholding International Law
The professor underscores the difficulties in enforcing international law amidst geopolitical tensions and the resurgence of autocratic tendencies. He warns that without a collective commitment to these laws, the global community risks spiraling into unchecked violence and territorial conquest.
Conclusion
In "Books to Make You Think," Inside Geneva offers listeners an in-depth exploration of the complex landscapes of human rights and international law through the lenses of Ken Roth and Andrew Clapham. Roth's firsthand experiences with Human Rights Watch illustrate the persistent struggles and strategic victories in defending human rights against powerful state actors. Meanwhile, Clapham's incisive analysis of modern warfare laws underscores the urgent need to reassess and reinforce the legal frameworks that govern conflicts today.
The episode serves as a poignant reminder of the ongoing challenges in upholding human dignity and lawful conduct in an increasingly unstable world. Both authors convey a sense of urgency and hope, emphasizing that while the threats are formidable, the collective efforts of dedicated individuals and robust international laws can pave the way for a more just and peaceful global society.
Upcoming on Inside Geneva
Imogen Foulkes previews the next episode, set to explore the impact of artificial intelligence, social media, and big tech on democracy. Scheduled for March 18th, this discussion will delve into how misinformation and hate speech proliferate through digital platforms and strategies to safeguard democratic institutions.
Additional Content: "Lost Cells" Podcast Promotion
The episode also features a promotion for Lost Cells, a new investigative podcast by science journalist Angela Saini, which examines the promises and perils of private stem cell banking.
Final Thoughts
Inside Geneva continues to provide insightful and critical perspectives on pressing global issues, equipping listeners with the knowledge to understand and engage with the complex dynamics of international relations and human rights advocacy.