Inside Geneva: Myanmar, women and justice

Summary

Inside Geneva: Myanmar, Women and Justice

Host: Imogen Foulkes (SWI swissinfo.ch)
Episode Date: March 17, 2026

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Overview

This compelling episode of Inside Geneva takes listeners into the heart of the landmark genocide case against Myanmar at the International Court of Justice (ICJ). Focusing on the pursuit of justice for the Rohingya people—particularly women survivors—the episode explores how legal advocates, investigators, and courageous survivors are shaping international law and holding the perpetrators of mass atrocities to account. The discussion details the background of the case, the unprecedented role of women testifying at the ICJ, and the broader repercussions for international justice and gender-based violence in conflict.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Rohingya Genocide Case at the ICJ

• Background:
  • The Gambia brought a case against Myanmar to the ICJ, alleging genocide against the Rohingya Muslim minority in 2017, marked by mass killings, sexual violence, torture, and the forced expulsion of nearly a million people ([02:37], [03:19]).
• Significance:
  • First ICJ genocide case in more than a decade.
  • Unfolds during a period of skepticism towards international law and institutions ([03:19], [16:28]).
  • The decision may shape the handling of future genocide cases—including South Africa’s case against Israel ([16:28], [27:07]).

2. Firsthand Accounts of Atrocities

• Eyewitness Testimonies:
  • Chilling recounts of brutality, including infants thrown into fires, and systematic gang rape perpetrated by the Myanmar military ([01:15]-[01:56], [04:09], [08:30]).
  • Investigators like Chris Sidoti and Ilaria Charla detail their harrowing interviews with survivors, especially children and mothers ([04:49], [05:36], [07:15]).
  • Survivor Salma’s testimony personalizes the trauma and the plea for justice ([08:30], [28:37]).

3. The Role of Women in Justice Processes

• Support and Representation:

  • Antonia Mulvey and Legal Action Worldwide have mentored and accompanied Rohingya women, empowering them as survivors and advocates ([09:18]-[11:06], [13:30], [14:22]).
  • Many women, coming from restrictive patriarchal societies, overcome extraordinary barriers to testify ([14:22]).

• “The courage that they show in talking about what has happened to them... is quite inspirational. And I think we need that inspiration right now in the world that we are in and that should, should guide us.”
  – Antonia Mulvey [15:05]

4. Legal Innovation and Historical Firsts

• Groundbreaking Aspects:

  • First time in over 14 years that ICJ has heard in-person victim testimony.
  • First appearance of groups comprising women, men, and transgender survivors of sexual violence at the ICJ ([16:28]).

• Sexual Violence as Genocidal Act:

  • The case establishes organized sexual violence—particularly against women and girls of reproductive age—as central to the charge of genocide ([18:01]).
  • Legal arguments focus on the brutality, systematic nature, and intent behind mass rapes and sexual slavery ([18:01], [19:20]).
  • Testimonies are critical for demonstrating genocidal intent and pattern.

5. Broader Impacts on International Law and Precedent

• On Myanmar:

  • Potential ICJ orders: recognition and citizenship for Rohingya, restitution and compensation, investigations, and prosecutions ([20:36]).
  • Importance of a legal finding even if Myanmar initially refuses to comply ([21:36]).

• On International Justice:

  • Setting precedent for future genocide cases, notably South Africa vs. Israel ([16:28]).
  • Recognition of sexual violence as a genocidal act at the highest judicial level ([22:38]).
  • Affirmation of the continuing relevance and authority of the ICJ, despite political challenges to international justice ([24:04]).

6. The State of International Institutions

• Resilience Amid Challenges:

  • ICJ gains prominence as states bring more cases; many still accept its authority ([24:04]).
  • Call for stronger support of both international and national courts in prosecuting atrocities ([24:04]).

• “We cannot give up. In fact, you know what? We have to keep fighting harder and more strategically.”
  – Antonia Mulvey [25:20]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Chris Sidoti on hope for justice:
  “I still know that the Myanmar butchers who are responsible for what happened may never individually be brought to justice. But I certainly live in hope that one day they will.” [01:15], [27:37]

• Rohingya survivor Salma:
  “Is there no one in the world who can give us justice?” [08:30]
  “This time, we will not return without justice. May we get our justice this time.” [28:37]

• Ilaria Charla on impact:
  “I'm a mother myself... hearing the experience of mothers whose baby had been taken from their arm, from their chest while breastfeeding, throw them into the pits... It's incredible... do these stories affect you? I think they do. But it's true that... you try to embrace your job professionally the best you can.” [05:36]

• Antonia Mulvey on precedent:
  “This case is the first time in the court told us more than 14 years that you've had witnesses give in person evidence. The first time that we've had victims delegation which included men, women and transgender survivors of sexual violence. I mention all of this because all of these are firsts.” [16:28]

• Gambia Representative:
  “Many have lost faith in the promise of international law. And many are looking at this case to see if the Genocide Convention is more than just words on paper.” [26:54]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:15 — Chris Sidoti on the pain of listening to survivors’ accounts
• 02:26 — Antonia Mulvey affirms international law’s struggle and hope
• 03:19 — Importance & context of the ICJ Myanmar case
• 04:49 — Chris Sidoti & Ilaria Charla recall gathering evidence
• 07:15 — The importance of evidence for historical record and impetus for action
• 08:30 — Rohingya survivor Salma’s testimony at the ICJ
• 09:18 — Antonia Mulvey on her years investigating and supporting survivors
• 13:30 — Emotional and legal power of the case’s progress
• 14:22 — The courage it takes for survivors, especially women, to testify
• 16:28 — Legal precedent and impact on other genocide cases
• 18:01 — Sexual violence as a core aspect of the genocide charge
• 20:36 — Possible consequences for Myanmar if found liable
• 22:38 — Effects of recognizing sexual violence as genocide for women in conflict
• 24:04 — Discussion of the waning and waxing power of international law institutions
• 25:20 — Antonia Mulvey on personal motivation and the need for perseverance
• 26:54 — Global significance of the case for international law
• 27:37 — Chris Sidoti’s enduring hope for justice
• 28:37 — Salma’s determination to seek justice

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Conclusion

Host Imogen Foulkes wraps up with a tribute to the courage of Rohingya women and the dedication of human rights advocates. The episode provides an authentic and urgent insight into the struggle for justice amid grave atrocities, highlighting both the progress and challenges in holding perpetrators to account in an increasingly complex international environment.

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Next episode preview: Women in the peace process—and why they are so often sidelined, despite their crucial roles.

Transcript

[Podcast Narrator]

The Swiss Connection Science podcast is back with brand new stories. They're all connected by one overarching the climate challenges we face today and the smart solutions that can help us tackle them. This season, we're diving into the depths of Swiss lakes, where invasive mussels are threatening the delicate indigenous ecosystem. We'll also travel to the Arctic to discover how ancient ice can reveal vital clues for pioneering climate research. And we'll explore the critical world of the semiconductor industry, looking at its global importance and Switzerland's potential role within it. All this and more is coming soon in the new season of the Swiss Connection Science Podcast.

[Imogen Foulkes]

This is Inside Geneva. I'm your host, Imogen folks and this is a production from Swiss Info, the international public media company of Switzerland. In today's program,

[Chris Sidoti]

for a year now, in this bleak landscape, the Rohingya have been suffering, giving harrowing accounts of the brutality they say they suffered and at the hands of the Myanmar military. I still know that the Myanmar butchers who are responsible for what happened may never individually be brought to justice. But I certainly live in hope that one day they will.

[Journalist/Narrator]

I have covered war, I have covered violence throughout my career, but I have never heard of anything like that happening to human beings. Her baby had been taken from her arms and then thrown into a fire. It freaked of her face. And then she was, she was gang raped.

[Ilaria Charla]

Is this possible? How human being can do such horrible things to other human being?

[Antonia Mulvey]

They asked me for justice and when I asked them, why are you here? Why you've been waiting all day? In the camps, many of them were able to walk, they'd not eaten and they wanted justice. And at that time I really thought, how would it be possible for justice to come?

[Journalist/Narrator]

The UN's highest court is hearing a genocide case against Myanmar. A the military is accused of carrying out a campaign of mass killings and human rights abuses against Rohingya Muslims.

[Antonia Mulvey]

If you were in that court, I can assure you international law is alive and it is fighting very hard.

[Imogen Foulkes]

Hello and welcome again to Inside Geneva. I'm Imogen folks. And today, continuing our focus on women. This month we're going to look at the charges of genocide against Myanmar brought by the Gambia at the International Court of Justice. The case revolves around Myanmar's brutal military operation in 2017 in which up to a million Rohingya Muslims were driven out of their homes. Their villages were burnt. There were widespread reports of rape, murder and torture. Antonia Mulvey of the Geneva based organization Legal Action Worldwide is supporting Rohingya women in the case.

[Antonia Mulvey]

It's the first case before the ICJ in more decade. And let's be honest and clear, this is comes at a time where international law is under attack, international justice institutions are under attack. So I think it's very important for a number of factors. The world that we live in right now is sending a message that the UN highest court in the world is there here in case of genocide. A very strong message for victims and survivors. And importantly the decision for this case will impact future genocide cases at the icj.

[Journalist/Narrator]

The types of abuses that we heard that had been visited upon Rohingya refugees are among the worst kind of abuses that had ever heard about as journalists.

[Antonia Mulvey]

The next morning they were taken outside the village where they watched their neighbors dig a shallow grave. Witnesses say they were shot and then piled into the makeshift grave, some still moving.

[Imogen Foulkes]

Before we hear that in depth interview with Antonia, let's remember that one of the factors that spurred the Gambia to launch this case was the horrific evidence gathered by the UN's own fact finding mission to Myanmar. Chris Sidoti led that mission. I interviewed him for Inside Geneva some years later and it was clear that what he saw and heard during that mission will stay with him forever.

[Chris Sidoti]

We all have the experience of sitting and talking face to face with victims and witnesses of some of the most serious human rights atrocities you could imagine. The accounts that perhaps affect me most are those of children. And we talk to a lot of kids now. I'm a grandfather, I sit there and listen and I think of my own kids when they were young and my grandkids now. How can you not? Those experiences that they tell us that we're privileged to hear stay with you, they don't get forgotten.

[Imogen Foulkes]

Human rights investigator Ilaria Charla worked on the team too. She spent weeks in Rohingya refugee camps in Bangladesh interviewing survivors. At first she couldn't quite believe what she was hearing.

[Ilaria Charla]

I told myself is this possible? How human being can do such horrible things to other human being? And stories that do stays with you of course, like now some years has passed by that experience I had. But I still remember, you know, most of my interaction and interview with victims and witnesses were with people that had suffered or witness the killing of one or more family, family members. And I remember, you know, this husband telling me being just there in their house with his wife, you know, doing just ordinary things. His wife was cooking rice and then, you know, the routine was just interrupted by the, the sound of gunshot outside and it was just a split of second that make the husband going outside the door. But the bullet shot straight the chest of his wife and died in front of his eyes. And, you know, you're there, you're listening this story. And he tells me, you know, I couldn't even comfort her in the last minutes of her life. And that's just one story of the thousand horrible stories that we collected in the camps. I'm a mother myself and hearing the experience of mothers whose baby had been taken from their arm, from their chest while breastfeeding, throw them into the pits like, it's. It's incredible. But you ask me, do you know, do these stories affect you, have an impact on you? I think they do. But it's true that, you know, you also, this is your job, and, you know, you try to embrace your. Professionally, it's the best you can.

[Imogen Foulkes]

For both Chris Sidoti and Hilaria Charla, it's crucial that the evidence they gathered actually achieves something.

[Chris Sidoti]

We can guarantee that the record will be written, that the evidence that they give to us will contribute to presenting the entire picture of what occurred and preserving it historically. And we hope that, in addition, there will be possibilities of international justice and that their story may contribute to the development of a picture that causes the international community, can I be blunt, to bloody well get off its ass and do something.

[Gambia Representative]

We did not bring this case lightly. We brought this case after reviewing credible reports of the most brutal and vicious violations imaginable inflicted upon vulnerable group that had been dehumanized and persecuted for many years. We received and carefully examined the meticulous reports of the United nations fact finding mission.

[Imogen Foulkes]

Well, perhaps Chris's wish is now coming true. The International Court of Justice has begun hearing the case against Myanmar. And among those giving evidence is Salma, who has traveled from the refugee camp in Bangladesh in her search for justice.

[Salma]

In 2017, Rohingya people were brutally persecuted. Our families, men and women, were taken, slaughtered and shot dead. Boys, men, girls and women were raped. We were subjected to horrific atrocities. Even though I was a married woman, I was not spared from sexual abuse and torture. Young children were thrown in the fire. Our houses were burnt down. We saw the bodies of our Rohingya people scattered around. Is there no one in the world who can give us justice?

[Imogen Foulkes]

Antonia Mulvey was in court too, accompanying women, Salma among them. Like Chris and Hilaria, Antonia, Too was almost 10 years ago part of a UN human rights investigation on Myanmar.

[Antonia Mulvey]

So my role goes back actually to 2016, where I was asked to investigate and to look at human rights violations against ethnic minorities in Myanmar. For the first Human Rights Council report. At that time, I already saw a pattern of sexual violence by the Myanmar military, often then known as the Tatmadaw. This is a pattern of conduct that they have had for decades, primarily targeting women and girls, but also men and boys and transgender. In 2017, I was appointed by the Human Rights Council to investigate crimes that taken place and was deployed to on the Myanmar Bangladesh border just after 25 August when the main military operations were taking place against the Rohingya. My file was to investigate crimes of sexual violence and crimes against children. I interviewed maybe 100, 150 women and children, boys and girls, but primary women and girls, and listened to their stories and so many of them asked me, they asked me for justice. And when I asked them, why are you here, why you've been waiting all day in the camps, many of them weren't able to walk, they'd not eaten, they had no shelter and they wanted justice. And at that time I really thought, how would it be possible for justice to come about? When I left as a UN investigator in 2018 at legal action Worldwide decided that we should be assisting Rohingya victims and survivors in their quest for international justice.

[Imogen Foulkes]

Take us back then to when you

[Interviewer]

were in those refugee camps interviewing survivors.

[Imogen Foulkes]

You already knew, as you said, this

[Interviewer]

kind of sexual violence had been inflicted for, for years. But still, when you heard the accounts, what was your reaction as a woman?

[Antonia Mulvey]

You know, I, I have four children and my son at the time was three months old. It was a very difficult decision to leave him. And in fact, all of my children were under age 7 and below at the time. So it was particularly difficult to, not only to leave them, but then to, to listen to these stories of the targeted killing of children. These were. It was not by accident. No. They singled out children, babies, toddlers, they killed them, they threw them into the fire, they drowned them. But also listening to women, to mothers who described being raped and gang raped and having their children killed in front of them or their children watching this. So I have to say it was very emotionally difficult to. It's difficult to listen to these stories, but listen to these stor we must, because they are there to tell some of the most painful moments of their lives. And our job, or I believe my job as an international lawyer and investigator is to ensure that the world hears these stories and that we don't turn away and we assist them, particularly this group of people who are mainly illiterate, they can't read or even write, to assist them, to help them for the world, not to forget, for them to seek justice for what's happened to them and their families. So it's profoundly moving and that's why it was so, I think emotionally and intellectually. But to sit in the court again, to listen to the stories that I had taken, not only seeing you, an investigator, but then now representing victims and survivors, you think, gosh, yes, you know, we, we can see justice can happen, particularly for women and girls.

[Imogen Foulkes]

So it's, it's 10 years, basically.

[Interviewer]

Now we're at the, the International Court of Justice. Was this what you had foreseen a decade ago? Or you just think, no, at least

[Imogen Foulkes]

I need to write this down and say this happened.

[Antonia Mulvey]

I think I was saying that sometimes in life it's really good to be wrong. And I was definitely wrong when I remember sitting in those camps thinking, I just can't think. They're not going to get justice. They're not going to get the justice that they deserve. There's no foreseeable legal pathway for them. And it is incredible to see that now you have these different justice processes. And of course, justice is much more than just being in the court. We know that. But it is an important and a very symbolic moment and a legally powerful moment in time as well.

[Imogen Foulkes]

It must be hard for the survivors of this kind of violence, though, to come all the way to the Hague and testify and almost have to relive what happened to them.

[Antonia Mulvey]

I was amazed when I have worked with these victims and survivors of sexual violence, the courage that they show in talking about what has happened to them. And often when you ask them why, they will say, because frequently what's happened to their family members. So most of survivors talk about that now. I have to say that people just didn't happen to be able to turn up into the Hague. We've worked with them for years and years and years to prepare for this moment. And those that have the courage to be able to travel to the Hague. And we have to remember that these people were not able to move freely in Myanmar. They can't move freely in Bangladesh. They're in camps. They've never got in a plane before. They didn't know. They've never put a seatbelt on in a car before. Every single element that we take for granted is new for them, and they're new go to this huge, incredible. It is incredible court has. It's very grand. You feel it yourself when you go in there and don't think anything can quite prepare you for when you walk into that international Court of Justice. But they, they were amazing. And particularly women who have lived in a patriarchal society. Let's also remember that women in Myanmar and also the Rohingyana and Bangladesh, they're not able to leave their homes. So many of them will never have left that small shelter which might be, you know, a few meters. This has got so many extraordinary elements to it. And I think one of the reasons I fought for them so hard is because their bravery and courage is quite inspirational. And I think we need that inspiration right now in the world that we are in and that should, should guide us.

[Interviewer]

Obviously your primary concern is justice for the people you are accompanying to the Hague. But this case could be precedent setting, could have wider ramifications. There are other possible genocide cases before the icj.

[Antonia Mulvey]

Yes, absolutely. So this case is the first genocide case in more than a decade. This case is the first time in the court told us more than 14 years that you've had witnesses give in person evidence. The first time that we've had victims delegation which included men, women and transgender survivors of sexual violence. I mention all of this because all of these are firsts and we hope contribute towards a positive decision of genocide. And also it's important to note Myanmar's argument, which in summary is that this was a counter insurgency operation, they are terrorists and this is what we had to do. This included men, it included women, and it could include children and therefore they were legitimate targets. The rest of the evidence was not credible, including UN fact finding missions and witness statements. So indeed, if we look at the cases that are before the International Court of Justice, it will have a significant impact for them. And of course, the extent to that will have to wait until a decision is made by the International Court of Justice. But it will definitely include an impact on the South Africa versus Israel genocide case.

[Interviewer]

There's also the aspect of arguing that this kind of organized sexual violence is

[Imogen Foulkes]

an aspect of genocide.

[Antonia Mulvey]

Yes. So the sexual violence aspect of the genocide case was a critical part. Two parts actually, if you look at this, first of all, the actus reus of genocide. So mass rapes took place, mass gang rapes took place, sexual enslavement took place. And we know from case law that this now constitutes important elements of acts of genocide, but it's also the way that they carried it out. So first of all, as we know, sexual violence, you can never have a defense argument that it was part of a terrorist operation. But let's not forget, it was also the brutal way in which they carried out the sexual violence in public in front of family members. They mutilated individuals whilst they raped them. They told them that we will kill you by raping you. So it was what they said when they committed the sexual violence, the brutality of it, the public nature of it. They also targeted particularly girls and women of reproductive age, very young girls and gang rape as well. What's the purpose of that? Well, one of them is that we saw very high rate of women and girls giving birth the year after the clearance operations. All part of the genocidal intent of the Myanmar military. And knowing that they had very limited as well medical facilities from within Myanmar and within Bangladesh. Many of them died from the sexual violence and from trying to leave Myanmar and into traversing into Bangladesh and therefore having witnesses that will talk about. And here in this case we had nj, she gave evidence at the court about being gang raped and the killing of her father, her husband and her son was very, very important. And the judges listened very keenly to this. Another witness, Ms. described how the last time he saw his wife and his children, his wife and children were taken in to one of the huts. In those huts, what happened to them was that women and girls and children were raped, gang raped and they were killed. And also those huts were set alight.

[Interviewer]

If the ICJ finds in favor of

[Imogen Foulkes]

Gambia and against Myanmar, what will be the consequences for Myanmar?

[Antonia Mulvey]

Firstly, the court. Well, let's go back for a moment in the court actually and let's think about what the agent for the representative of Myanmar said. He said, this will be a stain on our collective conscience of Myanmar. When the Gambia agent, the wonderful Minister Jalo, opened up, he said, no, the stain is yours, Myanmar, because you have committed genocide. So firstly, Myanmar has stood up in the court and has put up a defense. We should not underestimate that that countries are violating international law, but they do not want to be found liable for genocide. This is really important. So this in of itself will be very important. Then the court can order and Gambia has requested a number of things. Number one, they have requested for Rohingya to be recognized, to be given citizenship. They can order to have their land and property back or inform compensation. They can order reparations in the form of compensation. They can order for domestic investigations and prosecutions to take place. Often the question we hear is, well, you know, Myanmar will not comply with that. They didn't comply with the provisional measures. That's potentially true. But let's not forget that things can change overnight. We saw what happened with Syria. No one was expecting the Assad regime to fall and therefore this judgment is very important because it can be implemented in the future. And also in the region we've seen countries potentially normalizing relationships. Well, when you have the highest court in the world say that this state has committed genocide, this will also should impact and can be utilized for how trade is happening, sanctions are happening or normalising of relationships.

[Interviewer]

And given that a key part of this case is the commission of sexual violence in an overall case that is a charge of genocide, what will this mean for women in conflict?

[Antonia Mulvey]

I think this case, I hope, has shown that if you work with women, if you assist them to move from victims to survivors to advocates, they can have the courage to be present in the court to listen to what happened and they can give testimony in the court. And I want to tell you that when I saw NJ afterwards, after she talked about what happened to her, the gang rape that she suffered, her face was luminous. She felt relieved. She had done something huge for herself. And this is massive. We should be shifting this stigma. It's not their stigma, it's to those who've perpetrated these crimes. There also be a recognition again that sexual violence can constitute genocide. This is not the first time we've seen this in international court. Of course we saw the International Criminal for Tribunal for Yugoslavia and Rwanda, but it's very important that that's re recognized at the highest court in the world. So I think there's multiple implications for it.

[Interviewer]

One thing that strikes me is that we're seeing a bit of a rowing away from institutions like the International Criminal Court and the International Court of Justice. The United States, for example, is sanctioning judges on the International Criminal Court. Do you think that these institutions still have the weight they had maybe 20 years ago, even 10 years ago?

[Antonia Mulvey]

That's a good question. I think the International Court of Justice has more weight than it had 20 years ago because we've seen multiple cases being taken by States and we're seeing decisions being made by the International Court of Justice issuing a provisional measures that are very important and advisory opinions that are being issued. So I think it's a very, it still retains its importance, it's still the highest co op in the world and the vast majority of states have accepted its role. International Criminal Court has going through difficult times, but I think at these times this is when we should be stepping up to support the International Criminal Court. Having said that, also national courts should be playing a very important role, particularly in Europe, to investigate and prosecute international crimes, war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide, and upholding international humanitarian law is a very important role that they can and should be taking. It's not only. We shouldn't only be leaving it to international courts right now.

[Imogen Foulkes]

For you personally, though, this is hard

[Interviewer]

work and harrowing work.

[Imogen Foulkes]

What motivates you, especially when we see this drift away from some of these

[Interviewer]

international norms and standards.

[Antonia Mulvey]

You know, having spent three weeks just sitting in the court in the Hague, I thought, what a way to start 2026 when things are really, really bleak and we do question ourselves about if you were in that court. I can assure you international law is alive and it is fighting very hard and particularly for, I felt, to put forward survivors, and particularly survivors of sexual violence. And, you know, we. As an international lawyer, I'm sitting here in Geneva, I can't allow myself that despair. I don't have that right. We need to be standing up and fighting for those who don't have that ability to travel to be able to speak out. And I think what we can see is that when states are ready to speak out, and there are some states that are ready to speak out, and when the UN works with them collecting meticulous evidence and information in reports, and when frontline organizations work with victims and survivors and also bring out reports, you can see change happen. We cannot give up. In fact, you know what? We have to keep fighting harder and more strategically. And I think that's where we need to be looking at for the next five years and beyond.

[Gambia Representative]

Mr. President, honorable judges, these oral hearings come at a time in which the fundamental principles of international law as ensigned in the UN Charter, are under stress and threat.

[Antonia Mulvey]

After years of violence, exile and denial, the Rohingya's story is finally being told before judges at the International Court of Justice.

[Gambia Representative]

Many have lost faith in the promise of international law. And many are looking at this case to see if the Genocide Convention is more than just words on paper.

[Imogen Foulkes]

Well, the ruling at the International Court of Justice is expected towards the end of this year. It's a case that will likely have ramifications for other cases involving possible genocide, including South Africa's case against Israel over Gaza. Chris Sidoti, who is now a member of the UN Commission of Inquiry on the occupied Palestinian Territory, is heartened that what happened in Myanmar is now finally before the world's highest court.

[Chris Sidoti]

To see now action in the International Court of Justice investigations underway. The International Criminal Court. I still know how many years it's going to take. I still know that the Myanmar butchers who are responsible for what happened may never individually be brought to justice. But I certainly live in hope that one day they will.

[Imogen Foulkes]

Hilaria Charla shares that hope.

[Ilaria Charla]

I think, you know, we're nothing without hope. And these people cannot turn to their own jurisdiction. They cannot seek remedies in their own country. So maybe, yes, the UN is they're only open sometimes, in some cases, I mean, and UN has been there for a long time is possibly the best thing we came up as an international community. I think it's important to have hope. You know, who are we as a human race if we don't have hope?

[Imogen Foulkes]

Hope and above all, determination to get justice is what has inspired the women now bravely testifying at the icj.

[Salma]

Women like Salma, our parents and grandparents, have become refugees three times before us. They did not know how to seek just justice because they were not informed enough. This time, we will not return without justice. May we get our justice this time.

[Imogen Foulkes]

And that brings us to the end of this edition of Inside Geneva. I hope you were inspired, as I was, by the sheer courage of the Rohingya women who have traveled to the International Court of Justice and by the dedication of the lawyers and human rights rights investigators supporting them. Next time on INSIDE Geneva, we'll be looking at women in the peace process. Why are they so often left out, especially when the men seem nowadays at least, to be so very bad at resolving conflict?

[Interviewer]

Women are completely absent in kind of high level politics at the moment. And this high level peacemaking, however, this is the visible part and our kind of focus has been so much on Trump. I think he has really kind of, you know, taken the focus away from all the other things that are still happening. So women are still working for peace every day in different conflict contexts.

[Imogen Foulkes]

That's out on March 31st. Do join us then. A reminder, you've been listening to Inside Geneva, a Swiss info production. You can subscribe to us and review us wherever you get your podcasts. Check out our previous episodes, how the International Red Cross Unites Prisoners of War with Their Families or why Survivors of Human Rights Violations Turn to the UN In Geneva for Justice. I'm Imogen, folks. Thanks again for listening.