Inside Geneva – “Is the UN Still Relevant at 80?”

Podcast: Inside Geneva
Host: Imogen Foulkes (SWI swissinfo.ch)
Guest: Richard Gowan, Director, UN and Multilateral Diplomacy, International Crisis Group
Date: September 16, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, “Is the UN Still Relevant at 80?”, Imogen Foulkes examines the United Nations’ role and relevance as it approaches its 80th anniversary. Guest Richard Gowan provides critical analysis of the organization's diminishing influence in global conflict resolution, persistent humanitarian efforts amid financial crises, and the existential challenges posed by geopolitical rifts and member state disengagement, especially from powerful Security Council members.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. UN at 80: Achievements, Drifting Relevance, and Lingering Hope

• Critical Humanitarian Presence:

  • Gowan underscores that the UN, though imperfect and facing dire challenges, is "relevant" for refugees and those seeking protection (e.g., in Bangladesh, South Sudan) through its peacekeeping and humanitarian operations [03:02].
  • Quote:
    • “We do sometimes forget that the UN still has 60,000 peacekeepers around the world… So the UN is not dead. But I think the UN is drifting.” – Richard Gowan [03:02]

• Geopolitical Malaise:

  • Discussion on the sense of malaise in New York and Geneva due to heightened rivalry and disengagement from the US and other great powers, especially post-Trump [03:37].

2. Conflict Resolution: Waxes and Wanes in Effectiveness

• Historical Perspective:

  • Gowan relates the UN's current sidelining in Ukraine and the Middle East to previous decades—like parts of the Cold War—when the UN was "totally marginal" [04:39].
  • The rise in UN activity post-Cold War is noted as a high point, with a subsequent "ebbing away" of power since the Arab revolutions (2011) and Syrian civil war [05:15].

• Loss of Political Backing:

  • Declining cooperation and efficiency in the Security Council mean UN mediators/peacekeepers lack "top level political cover" [05:40].

3. US Attitudes and Trump’s Impact

• Trump’s Approach:

  • Trump calls for the UN to focus on peacemaking but, in practice, the US (and others) operate outside of UN frameworks for major crises [06:50].
  • Memorable Quote (Trump, via Gowan):
    • “I've solved six wars in the last six months… So that's much more important than playing golf.” – Donald Trump (paraphrased by Gowan) [07:43]

• Quick Wins vs. Sustained Peace:

  • Gowan critiques the “Trump school of peacemaking” as fixated on flashy, short-term deals rather than sustainable peace, emphasizing that actual conflict resolution is "slow business" [08:41].
  • Quote:
    • “It’s not peace, sustainable. It’s not. And I think, you know, what UN mediators and other conflict resolution specialists have learned... is that peace is a very slow business.” – Richard Gowan [08:41]

• US Role in Recent Conflicts:

  • Trump’s claims on solving conflicts (e.g., DRC, India-Pakistan) are met with skepticism; US involvement sometimes nudges processes forward but is rarely decisive [10:29].

4. UN’s Eroded Influence in Ukraine and Gaza

• Ukraine:

  • UN marginal since 2014—European powers sidelined the organization; Guterres’ only major success: Black Sea grain initiative [11:25].

• Gaza and the Middle East:

  • UN used to be central in peacemaking but Israel increasingly sees it as “biased” and aims to dismantle UN operations, with dangerous precedent-setting potential [12:44].
  • Quote:
    • “Something that we are seeing is actually Israel as a matter of policy trying to deconstruct the UN presence in the conflict. And that is something which could set a very, very disturbing precedent in many other places.” – Richard Gowan [13:26]

• Direct Attacks on Humanitarian Organizations:

  • Not just the UN—the ICRC is being similarly sidelined; the precedent worries Geneva-based humanitarians that instrumental bodies are being excluded where they’re needed most [14:14].

5. Humanitarian Aid: Sidelining, Alternatives, and Failures

• Obstruction and Alternatives:

  • Other conflicts (e.g., Sudan) show armed parties blocking or restricting UN humanitarian access [15:13].
  • In Gaza: US and Israel promote the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation as an alternative, but with disastrous results—further showing the irreplaceable scale/expertise of the UN’s agencies [17:47].
  • Quote:
    • “Non UN actors are just not able to replicate the sort of aid provision that the big UN agencies can provide.” – Richard Gowan [17:47]

• Peacekeeping Parallels:

  • In Haiti, the non-UN Kenyan-led force lacks funding/logistical prowess, struggling compared to UN blue helmets—illustrating the real if often overlooked value of UN-backed operations [18:41].

• Financial Crisis:

  • Massive funding cuts, particularly by the US, are “contracting” UN capacity everywhere, leaving agencies unable to maintain previous levels of aid [19:37].

6. Where Next for the UN? Structural Challenges and Future Prospects

• Member States’ Real Attitudes:

  • Despite crises, most “small and middle-sized powers do want the organization to keep going.” But in global capitals, the UN is not a top priority—national interests (trade, security) dominate [21:01].

• Future Reforms:

  • Prediction: Only when the “really dire financial situation” deepens will reforms and mergers of big UN agencies be considered, possibly spurred by a new Secretary-General in 2027 [22:43].
  • Quote:
    • “I think at some point we're going to have to have much more serious discussions... not just the financing of the UN but also the structure of the UN.” – Richard Gowan [22:43]

7. Secretary-General Guterres: A Tragic Tenure?

• Guterres’ Role and Constraints:

  • Forced to prioritize financial survival over bold reforms or climate leadership; described as “a profoundly unlucky man” beset by global events beyond his control [26:19].
  • Quote:
    • “He is a man of great intellect and he has ego, but he has ambition… instead, he's having to spend his twilight in office trying to get the staff to shave off 20% of posts. It's a bit of a tragic story, really.” – Richard Gowan [27:18]

• General Assembly Dynamics:

  • Guterres’ statements likely to be overshadowed by Trump’s presence, as world leaders’ focus turns to the US [25:22].

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On UN Drift:
  • “The UN is not dead. But I think the UN is drifting.” – Richard Gowan [03:02]
• On Peace as Slow Work:
  • “Peace is a very slow business.” – Richard Gowan [08:41]
• On Structural Weakness:
  • “You can beat up the UN and there's no penalty.” – Richard Gowan [15:35]
• On Guterres’ Fate:
  • “Whatever his strengths and whatever his weaknesses, the Secretary-General has been a profoundly unlucky man… a bit of a tragic story, really.” – Richard Gowan [26:19, 27:18]
• On Precedent in Gaza:
  • “If the UN does crumble after nearly 80 years of involvement in the Middle East, then it can crumble anywhere.” – Richard Gowan [13:51]
• On Alternatives to the UN:
  • “Non UN actors are just not able to replicate the sort of aid provision that the big UN agencies can provide.” – Richard Gowan [17:47]

Important Segment Timestamps

• 03:02 – UN’s relevance for people on the ground: refugees, peacekeepers, humanitarian operations
• 04:39 – Post-Cold War boom, ebbing since 2011, loss of big power cooperation
• 06:50 – Trump’s approach to UN and peacemaking
• 08:41 – The difference between quick wins and sustainable peace
• 11:25 – UN’s marginalization in Ukraine and Gaza; Israel’s challenge to the UN
• 14:14 – Humanitarian organizations’ reputational challenges and the implications for other conflicts
• 17:47 – Failure of Gaza Humanitarian Foundation as non-UN alternative
• 18:41 – Haiti: struggle of non-UN multinational force
• 19:37 – UN’s humanitarian agencies face severe funding collapse
• 21:01 – Member states’ current appetite (or lack thereof) for UN reform
• 22:43 – Structural and financial reforms: what might prompt them
• 26:19 – Guterres’ “tragic” time as Secretary-General

Tone & Takeaways

In the words of Imogen Foulkes and Richard Gowan, the episode strikes a tone of wary realism: recognizing the UN’s enduring significance for millions, but warning of existential risks if current patterns—especially big power disengagement and financial strangulation—continue. While there is still, among many states, a strong desire to preserve multilateralism, the UN’s future may hinge on whether crises force a fundamental reckoning with its structure and mission.

Useful for new listeners: This episode is essential listening for those grappling with the UN’s present and future, contextualizing headlines about Gaza, Ukraine, or peacekeeping within the slow, often invisible grind of multilateral diplomacy—and the consequences when it falters.