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- [00:00]
Imogen Folks
Are you Swiss and planning to move abroad? Or maybe you've already taken the leap? Swiss Info has a new podcast just for you. It's coming out on November 25th. It's called Ade Merci Schweez. Or maybe that should be Adieu Merci la Suisse. It's available in Swiss, German and French. It covers everything you need to know about setting up your new life abroad. We speak to Swiss around the world who've already made the move and we ask experts to share their experiences. You'll find Adamercy Schweetz wherever you get your podcasts or in our SW app. This is Inside Geneva. I'm your host, Imogen Folks, and this is a production from swissinfo, the international public media company of Switzerland. In Today's program, at 2:00 in the.
- [01:04]
Marcel van Maastricht
Afternoon, you might have an air alert. And at three o' clock in the afternoon, people in shops and restaurants are putting up Christmas decorations because they want to continue their life.
- [01:14]
Robin Meldrum
The target's mainly energy infrastructure, leaving many.
- [01:18]
Marcel van Maastricht
Areas without electricity or heating.
- [01:21]
Robin Meldrum
Today I had electricity in my flats a few hours in the afternoon. I'll have three or four hours of electricity tomorrow. And it's wearing. It's tiring. Ukrainians who live here, it's an additional stress. During the night, there was a massive attack by Shahid drones and guided aerial bombs just about 35 or 40 meters from the two guest houses where our staff were living.
- [01:53]
Marcel van Maastricht
There is a real effort to make it look like everything is normal and to have the decorations, have the music outside, have the food. Sometimes people go to parties. It's nice to walk through town and see that happening.
- [02:15]
Imogen Folks
Hello and welcome again to Inside Geneva. I'm Imogen. Folks. In today's program, we're bringing you two in depth interviews with aid workers who are spending this holiday season in Ukraine.
- [02:28]
Marcel van Maastricht
My name is Marcel Vo Maastricht. I'm the head of office for UNHCR in Odessa in the south of Ukraine.
- [02:36]
Robin Meldrum
I'm Robin Meldrum. I'm the country director for Medicine Sans Frontiere, Doctors Without Borders in Ukraine.
- [02:44]
Imogen Folks
Recently, the headlines about Ukraine have all been about a possible peace deal. But in Ukraine itself, now marking its fourth Christmas since Russia's invasion, the war continues here in Geneva. The UN Human Rights Commissioner, Falker Turk, had this to.
- [03:02]
Falker Turk
As peace negotiations continue, our monitoring and reporting show that the war is intensifying, causing more deaths, damage and destruction. Civilian casualties so far this year are 24% higher than the same period last year, largely due to the Russian armed Forces stepping up their use of long range missiles and drones in frontline and urban areas. This escalation is a never ending nightmare for the people of Ukraine.
- [03:39]
Imogen Folks
To try to alleviate that nightmare at least a little, the UN and other aid agencies have been working in Ukraine throughout the conflict. Winter is especially challenging. The UN refugee agency is giving, giving support, housing, shelter to tens of thousands of families whose homes have been damaged by the fighting or who have been displaced by it. Marcel Van Maastricht, head of the UN agency's Odessa office, told me more.
- [04:10]
Marcel van Maastricht
We repair homes, we provide legal assistance to people, we provide support to vulnerable groups, people with disabilities, the elderly. But we also have to respond to emergency situations. After an attack, drones or missiles in one of the regions that we cover, our staff and our partners go out to provide emergency shelter materials, for example, to make sure that people can stay in their homes and are not displaced as a result of the attack.
- [04:43]
Imogen Folks
How are you finding that this winter? I mean, here we see a lot about drone attacks on the news. Part of your, your area is covering Kherson, I believe.
- [04:57]
Marcel van Maastricht
Yes, yes, Kherson is a, a city that is literally on the front line in, in the south, near Kherson. The front line is, constitutes the Dnipro River. So on one side of the river you have Kherson City, which still has more than 60,000 inhabitants, and the other side of very close is where the troops of the Russian Federation are. So Kherson City is being attacked by different weapons, artillery, drones, smaller drones as well. On a daily and nightly basis. We have nightly air alerts where people are of course asked to go to the bunker. We can have six, seven a night. We also more and more get them during the day. And I think one of the ways to describe it is a distorted normalcy. A picture that I have in my mind not so long ago was an earlier during the day and I saw two lines of kids from our kindergarten, hand in hand, walking towards one of the bunkers. Now it looks very organized. No, not in panic. They just, you know, there's an air alert, there is drones coming, we have to go to the bunker. But that, the fact that for these children it was normal to me is very sad. You know, no kids should be forced to interrupt their play to, in an organized fashion, go into an underground bunker because their city is being attacked. And this was Odessa. In Kherson it's many degrees worse. I was in Kherson City two days ago and the population is being terrorized on a daily basis. And I use that Word very consciously when I say terrorized. The reason I use it is that Kherson is one of the areas where small drones, first person drones, let's say, that are basically controlled with an iPad or iPhone, are used to target civilians that are on the street going out for shopping, on a bike, on a motorbike. And the authorities in Kherson, they clearly stated, they say our population is being hunted. And I think it's the correct term because there are videos on YouTube and they're publicly available where they're being shown the people in Kherson being shown being hunted and they're called safaris by the other side. So I think that the term hunting is, is quite appropriate every time I go into these kind of areas. But even in Odessa is the fact that people still hold on. We use terms for that, the resilience, etc. But I find it's a unique form of strength that they have to remain in the cities, to remain in their communities.
- [08:02]
Imogen Folks
You talk about the resilience. I'm just wondering, though, this is time of year that people should be getting together with their families, celebrating, enjoying time off, enjoying a lovely dinner together. How are the people you work with going to be able to do that?
- [08:23]
Marcel van Maastricht
Well, the people I work with, like my staff, they will to some extent be able to do that with the families, relatives and friends that they live with here. But again, as with the whole population of Ukraine, they're also separated from other relatives that have either been displaced into other areas of Ukraine or are refugees in another country. But there is an acceptance of normalcy here, where on the one hand, at two o' clock in the afternoon you might have an air alert. And at three o' clock in the afternoon, people in shops and restaurants are putting up Christmas decorations because they want to continue their life. And I think it's understandable from a very personal, a very visceral point of view, you want to continue your life because if you don't, basically you're lost, but also your family, your children will suffer even more. People try to have a regular, normal day, going to work, going shopping, but also have a normal season celebrating Christmas, celebrating New Year's, also, I think to protect their children from being even more affected by the war, there is still, and we know there is still gigantic impact on the psychological welfare of both children and adults. And it's something that we try to address in our activities as well. But those will be interventions that will probably have to last for years to come because children have basically lost years and years of socialization, have lost years and years of being together with all the children, have lost years and years of being in school together.
- [10:02]
Imogen Folks
You talked about the people you work with, your colleagues and the people you support, many of them being separated from loved ones who may be displaced or may become refugees. What about you? What will you be doing over this holiday season? I mean, you're originally from the Netherlands, I believe.
- [10:22]
Marcel van Maastricht
Yes, yes, I'm from Holland. I will probably just be working because as we just described, the situation is unfortunately likely to continue or might even get worse as we saw increased attacks on energy structures as well as other civilian structures. This is likely to continue or as I said, even get worse. So our work will continue. And that is the same reason why my Ukrainian colleagues are. Some of them are. Will be working over. Over the period. So it's basically where we work and maybe, you know, have a. Have some special food, have a. Have a drink on Christmas Day. So we do try to also with the staff again take those moments. But at the same time, we know that the same night we might be called to work or partners might be called to work the next morning. So that unfortunately continues. It's the same as during weekends, by the way. There is no let up. It doesn't stop, it just continues.
- [11:26]
Imogen Folks
You've got a couple of new visitors, I understand.
- [11:30]
Marcel van Maastricht
Oh, yes. I'm fostering three puppies that I found during one of my missions in one of the oblasts in the south. I'm not sure it was a good decision in hindsight, but I got them when they were really, really small from an elderly lady in one of the villages in my Golaev who said she couldn't take care of them anymore for various reasons. At first I was hesitant, but. But a couple of days later she again contacted us and says, please help me with these puppies because I cannot take care of them anymore. And that's when I decided to pick them up and take them home. And it's been fun. I mean, it's sometimes nice to come home into a more positive chaos, right apart from the chaos that you might encounter during the rest of the day. But this loud and furry chaos at home is relaxing, to be honest.
- [12:29]
Imogen Folks
What do you miss about home in Holland? And what do you cherish about being in Odessa at this time of year?
- [12:38]
Marcel van Maastricht
What I miss in Holland is the obvious answer is to be with my relatives and friends, to be with the group of people that I would spend the time of year with normally. But I think it also, it sometimes expresses in smells, right in tastes in food and the smell of a Christmas tree, of decorations, of relatives preparing a certain dish. What I like about Odessa is that as I said before, regardless of the situation, the people, the community, as it is in the case of Odessa, the city is still putting a lot of effort to create that kind of atmosphere. There is a real effort to make it look like everything is normal and to again, have the decorations, have the music outside, have the food. Sometimes people go to parties. It's nice to walk through town and see that happening. In a way, it gives you some hope. This, this might in the end, you know, be better.
- [13:46]
Imogen Folks
Marcel van Maastricht of the UN Refugee agency speaking to us from Odessa with a hope I think we all share. Now, just before we hear our next interview, here's some news about another podcast inside Geneva listeners might enjoy.
- [14:02]
Femi Ok
Hello, I'm Femi ok, and I'm the new host of the Negotiators, the show that draws back the curtain on some of the most compelling negotiations around the world. This season we're taking you scuba diving in the Red Sea, walking the grounds of a luxury resort in Uganda, and even aboard an aging oil tanker floating off the coast of Yemen.
- [14:22]
Marcel van Maastricht
We were constantly monitored by drones, overhead divers under the vessel. So it was not exactly a high trust operation.
- [14:29]
Femi Ok
That's the Negotiators available now, wherever you.
- [14:32]
Imogen Folks
Get your podcasts new podcast, the Negotiators, one I'll certainly be listening to. And now to our second interview from Ukraine, from a cold, dark capital city.
- [14:44]
Robin Meldrum
I'm Robin Meldrum. I'm the country director for medicine, San Frontiere, Doctors Without Borders in Ukraine. I'm currently in Kyiv and we have operations along a long part of the front lines of the conflict here.
- [15:00]
Imogen Folks
It's dark there, Robin, and you look a bit cold.
- [15:03]
Robin Meldrum
Yeah, well, I mean, the Russian forces have been targeting the energy infrastructure and it's getting worse and worse, to be honest.
- [15:14]
Falker Turk
The Kyiv skyline on the fourth round of Russia's now weekly concerted targeting of the water in people's taps, the heating in their homes.
- [15:24]
Imogen Folks
President Zelensky has asked Ukrainians to consume electricity with Korean quote awareness tomorrow. This after a grid operator warned of rolling blackouts because of damage to the country's power infrastructure from missile attacks by Moscow.
- [15:37]
Robin Meldrum
Today I had electricity in my flats a few hours in the afternoon when I was at work, not here at home. The electricity is going to be off until about 11 o', clock, until 2 o' clock in the morning. I'll have three or four hours of electricity tomorrow. And it's wearing. It's tiring. It's tiring for me and I haven't been here that long. This has been an accumulated stress. For Ukrainians who live here, it's an additional stress. This is already quite bad in terms of energy cuts. Sometimes on a good day we might have 10 hours of electricity. On a bad day, we might have four hours of electricity. If the Russian strikes on energy infrastructure continue in the same way, this could get worse. This could be a very difficult winter.
- [16:23]
Imogen Folks
Tell me a bit kind of an average day then for you, an average day.
- [16:31]
Robin Meldrum
It's an exercise in juggling different priorities. So for us, there's a real balance between the security aspects and the level of life saving care we're providing. Really. I mean, close to the front lines, the needs are very high and we're here to respond to the needs. We're here to provide medical care for people where they have very few other options. But you have to pull back when the risks get too high. In fact, just a week ago, we had a team in a sub base living in a town called Sloviansk. During the night, there was a massive attack by Shahid drones and guided aerial bombs. One of the guided aerial bombs landed just about 35 or 40 meters from the two guest houses where our staff were living. And all the windows shattered, gas pipeline lit up. And it's absolutely outrageous. It's completely unthinkable. It was in a completely civilian area on the outskirts of town. Our neighbors were a beekeeper, a family with children. The cook who cooks for us in the guest houses was one of our neighbors. Some other international NGOs were our neighbors. That's the environment that we were living in. And yet this guided aerial bomb landed just so close to us. Everyone was in the basement shelter. Everyone was safe, everybody got out fine. But this is a close call. This is the environment in a war where it seems the rules of war are not being very closely respected.
- [18:20]
Imogen Folks
Tell me about the people you meet in these frontline areas.
- [18:28]
Robin Meldrum
Well, I could start with my own colleagues in msf. All of these are people from Ukraine and they've lived through this. A lot of our staff come from areas that are now currently under Russian occupation. People have lived through pretty grim experiences and their commitment levels, their desire to do a good job every day, is absolutely inspiring. These are extraordinary people to work with. But going beyond my colleagues, as you get closer to the front lines, there's something that's rather unique, I think, about the situation in Ukraine. We have villages which are largely depopulated apart from the elderly people, the older people, and these are the people who have stayed behind. We often find they will refuse to move until the very last moment when it's really almost too late. And sometimes it is too late. And these are people who, they have chronic diseases, they have diabetes or hypertension. They have medical needs that must be responded to otherwise, otherwise they will die. And there's very little provision of medical care in those areas. The other thing that we found, public transport has basically broken down. So you have communities of elderly people who are determined to stay in their houses. This is the place that they've lived for generations and they are either unwilling to leave or frightened to leave or don't have the capacity to leave. The public transport has broken down, they can't get to the nearest primary healthcare center. And this is our challenge. How do you reach these people and provide them with their diabetes care, their hypertension treatments? How do you continue that medical care for people who are pretty vulnerable and who are staying put where they are?
- [20:31]
Imogen Folks
This is a time of year, of course, where people of that generation would be expecting to be getting together with their children and grandchildren.
- [20:41]
Robin Meldrum
Oh, absolutely. I think this time of year in Ukraine is going to be difficult. I think it's been difficult for the past three and a half, nearly four years and I think it's going to be no less difficult this year.
- [20:54]
Imogen Folks
You're going to be staying there too. How's that going to be for you?
- [20:59]
Robin Meldrum
Christmas this year in Ukraine. I don't actually know quite what it will be like. I was here last year. I was in my, not far from the frontline city of Kherson. We had an international staff house and we invited some of our Ukrainian staff around to the house with their families and children. We cooked for about 16 people. We had a five course meal. Different people cooked different things from their country and it was, and it was a fantastic evening, but it was tinged with sorrow. The people who couldn't be there, the people who weren't there. This year I may be in Kiev, I may be in my. Or I may be in Dnipro, I don't know yet. But it will find a way to, to make it special somehow.
- [21:52]
Imogen Folks
What do you miss though? I mean, you won't be home, you won't be in, in Britain.
- [21:56]
Robin Meldrum
What will I miss? I mean there's, it's not so much what I will miss as what I will, what I will try to bring to my experience here in Ukraine from home. So I know because I was here last year this time when I came back to Ukraine, I brought vegetarian suet from shops in the UK because I know you can't. I can't find that here in, in Ukraine. So that means that now I'm able to make my own mince meat, I can make my own mince pies, and I can bring a little bit of home here to Ukraine and I can share it with people, I can share it with my colleagues, I can share it with Ukrainian colleagues. I can, I can introduce Ukrainian colleagues to the joy of a good homemade.
- [22:39]
Imogen Folks
Mince P this is now the fourth Christmas of this war. How do you sense the, the mood of the people?
- [22:47]
Robin Meldrum
Yeah, it's. I think people are incredibly tired and it's understandable. The relentless, in the back of your mind, concern that an air raid might go off, that there might be ballistic missiles that land in Kyiv. When the big attacks come in, they are really big. You feel the walls and the floor and the ceiling of your flat shaking. And this can happen at very short notice and this could happen at almost any moment. And the relentless tension of that has been weighing on people. And I know that people will try and find a bit of solace. They'll try and find a moment of joy, of family reunification for those who can. And that's not everybody, but it will be short lived, it will be fleeting. And then the fear and the anxiety and the concern will take the fore again.
- [23:51]
Imogen Folks
You know, I'm sure that, I mean, I'm talking to you from Geneva, that the traditional donors for the kind of work you do are shrinking with a sense you hear it a lot now that this kind of work is overfunded and doesn't some people say, I had an ambassador say it to me just a couple of weeks ago. It doesn't do any good. It doesn't change things.
- [24:17]
Robin Meldrum
Oh, goodness me. Anybody who doubts the importance of supporting humanitarian aid in Ukraine should come and visit my team embedded in a hospital in Kherson City, which is next door to the Dnipro River. It's a frontline city. Our team goes in there, they spend two weeks living in the hospital. It's got a good basement shelter. We don't allow the team to leave the building. Once they're in, they're in. They stay there for two weeks. They don't leave for any reason whatsoever. And then at the end of their two weeks, they're rotated out and another team comes in. And every day their backdrop sound is shells going off, explosions, artillery. They run the emergency department and they support in the intensive Care unit. And the issue is the hospital is incredibly well run, but they don't have enough staff. And I think those services, I don't know if they would collapse without our support, but they would struggle massively and they might even collapse. This is a city, Kherson, it's right on the front line, but it's still got about 90,000 civilian people living there. And most of the people who are left in Kherson are elderly people. When winter comes, we see lots of people slipping, sliding, falling, old bones breaking. I mean, the emergency department is full. And so I would say to anybody doubting the need for support, go and spend a couple of days in this place and you would change your mind.
- [26:01]
Imogen Folks
Very last question, then. You're spending Christmas in Ukraine. I'm assuming you'll be there for the New Year. What are you hoping for? 2026?
- [26:12]
Robin Meldrum
Well, one thing on New Year, I'm not expecting fireworks. They're banned in Ukraine, so there won't be fireworks. What am I expecting for 26? For 2026, I genuinely don't know what to expect. There's so much uncertainty. I can hope for peace, I can hope for ceasefires, I can hope for an end to, frankly, what is a totally unjustified hell that is happening to the Ukrainian people. What I can expect, I really don't know. But whatever happens, I have an incredibly strong team of Ukrainian colleagues here, very committed, very hard working. I know they will do whatever they can to try and help people as much as possible. And it's very inspiring to work alongside them.
- [27:17]
Imogen Folks
And those Inspiring words from MSF's Robin Meldrum bring us to the end of this edition of Inside Geneva. A reminder that Robin and Marcel are just two of thousands of aid workers in corporations, conflict zones all over the world trying to bring a little help in dark and difficult times. As 2025 draws to a close, there are more conflicts and more people in need, but much less money to support them. So if you're feeling generous this holiday season, you can subscribe to Inside Geneva and in our newsletter you will find all the details about groups like the UN Refugee Agency and Medecin Sans Frontiere. So you can support them yourself if you wish. Next time on Inside Geneva. We've got journalists round the table to reflect on this last year and look ahead to what 2026 might hold.
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Robin Meldrum
Ukraine.
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Marcel van Maastricht
All the talk of peace, to some extent eclipsed the humanitarian toll of this conflict.
- [28:29]
Robin Meldrum
The large numbers of Ukrainians that had been hunted down by short range drones.
- [28:33]
Imogen Folks
I wanted to speak about Gaza, which It has been, in the words of so many humanitarians, the most horrific humanitarian crisis they've seen in their careers. Climate change. Well, where was it in 2025? We had COP 30. The United States didn't go. The most powerful man on earth, President Trump telling the assembled UN Leaders that it was all a massive con job.
- [28:57]
Falker Turk
The top story of 2025 has been cuts in the humanitarian aid sector.
- [29:03]
Imogen Folks
That's out on January 6th. Do join us then. For now, all the very best and a good start to the new year. This has been Inside Geneva. I'm Imogen folks. Thank you for listening. A reminder, you've been listening to Inside Geneva, a Swiss info production. You can subscribe to us and review us wherever you get your podcasts. Check out our previous episodes, how the International Red Cross Cross Unites Prisoners of War with their families or why Survivors of Human Rights Violations Turn to the UN In Geneva for justice. I'm Imogen folks. Thanks again for listening.