On this week's episode of Inside Outside Innovation, we talk about the changes in lean analytics, how the human in the loop is a lie we tell ourselves, and the first thing to break when moving fast. Let's get started.

Inside Outside Innovation is the podcast to help innovation leaders navigate what's next. Each week, we'll give you a front row seat into what it takes to grow and thrive in a world of hyper uncertainty and accelerating change. Join me, Brian Ardinger, and Mile Zero's Robyn Bolton as we discuss the latest tools, tactics, and trends for creating innovations with impact. Let's get started.

Podcast Transcript with Brian Ardinger and Robyn Bolton

Angel Investing, AI Travel, and What’s Ahead

[00:00:30] Brian Ardinger: Welcome to another episode of Inside Outside Innovation. I'm your host, Brian Ardinger, and with me, I have Robyn Bolton. Hello, Robyn. How are you?

[00:00:46] Robyn Bolton: I am good. How are you, Brian?

[00:00:47] Brian Ardinger: I'm doing well. I'm actually heading to Minneapolis tomorrow for the Angel Fest conference. Meeting with our former colleague, Emily Kist, who's with Groove Capital, Mickayla Russard, who spoke at the IO Summit in 2024.

They host an annual event called Angel Fest, and we're excited to go up there and represent the Nebraska Angels and see what's going on north of what's going on in our world from angel investing. So that's what's going on in my world.

[00:01:12] Robyn Bolton: Awesome. Well, probably by the time these airs, I will either be on or be back from my AI-planned summer vacation. So, long-time listeners of the podcast may remember where I talked about my husband and I's usual vacation to Key West was upended by the Key West regulation changes about short-term rentals, and so AI planned a trip to Turks and Caicos for us.

[00:01:36] Brian Ardinger: Oh.

[00:01:36] Robyn Bolton: So, the proof is about to be in the pudding. The next podcast, I will report back as to whether or not you should let AI be a travel agent.

[00:01:46] Brian Ardinger: That's right. You'll probably end up in St. Barts, but who knows?

[00:01:50] Robyn Bolton: You know, at some point it doesn't really matter as long as it's warm and sunny and there's a beach.

[00:01:55] Brian Ardinger: That's right. Sand is sand.

[00:01:57] Robyn Bolton: Sand is sand.

Lean Analytics in the Age of AI

[00:01:59] Brian Ardinger: Excellent. Well, let's get started with some interesting articles that we've come across over the last week or so. First one is from our friend Ben Yoskovitz, and it's an article that he wrote about lean analytics, and it's Lean Analytics Reconsidered.

So, people familiar with the podcast know Ben and Alistair Croll. They wrote Lean Analytics back in the early days of the whole lean startup movement, and now it's become one of the, I think, one of the core Bibles out there when it comes to, you know, how do you measure and understand what you're building in the world of technology and that.

Ben goes back and looks at; the book's probably a dozen years old now. How much does it hold up, the frameworks that they developed, and what's changed in the world of AI? And what I liked about the book is it really kind of walks you through the stages that a company can go through, and the stage gates that you have to go through to kind of create traction and create product market fit, et cetera.

And, you know, everything from starting at empathy, stickiness, virality, revenue, and then finally scaling. And so the core portions of the book as far as the stages you go through and the, what you're trying to solve at each particular stage rings true. But he talks about some of the things that are different when it comes to AI and how that may be changing the game from that perspective. What were your thoughts?

Rethinking Engagement Metrics for AI Products

[00:03:07] Robyn Bolton: Yeah, this was really interesting. I mean, it was thrilled, not surprised, that the principles hold. I mean, if you have good, grounded principles, they should be able to survive a lot, and granted, AI is a lot, but it was great to see that the principles hold. What really struck me was one of the shifts, shift three, on engagement is directional, and basically this is talking about how traditionally you look at engagement, and the more time spent on site is good.

You want people to spend a lot of time on a site. You wanted people to spend a lot of time in a session, and AI is essentially flipping that on its head, and it just made me think of like, yeah, the more time I have to spend on a site is actually more indicative of the more time I'm struggling to get done what I need to get done.

So he breaks it down into there's time spent struggling, there's time spent with AI doing the work on user's behalf, time spent exploring or creating, and then zero user time tasks completed. And I just saw my AI usage, my site usage in all four of these categories, and realizing I go back to the tools, the sites, et cetera, that don't make me use a lot of time or engages me in the right amount of time.

But if I spend too much time struggling, which given my attention span is like 10 seconds, it is not good. It is not a good metric to be like, "Oh, she spent three minutes on the site." That is bad for you, my friend.

Why Quality Is Becoming a First-Class Metric

[00:04:38] Brian Ardinger: Yeah, so if more engagement, the more money, and as long as dynamics works, that's great, but you have to be at least aware of it.

The other shift that I think is kind of interesting is he calls it quality is a first class metric now, and again, it goes back to this idea that just because you can build it and it, you can build it 80% doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be the right solution out there for the marketplace. An 80% good product versus a 95% good product feel completely different to a product or a user, and so, you know, how can you build for quality of those interactions and that, because everybody can get to an 80% now.

If we think about, again, what is making AI stand out and then where can you stand out and differentiate yourself, it comes back to a lot of those human things, taste, quality, access to the customers, relationships. And I think we have to continue to pound that home again, because we're living in a world where commoditization of the actual product is becoming more easily built.

[00:05:34] Robyn Bolton: Plus, he paired that point with a Ron Swanson GIF.

[00:05:37] Brian Ardinger: GIF, yes.

[00:05:38] Robyn Bolton: From Parks and Rec, which just tells you how important that point is.

The Problem with Human-in-the-Loop AI

[00:05:43] Brian Ardinger: Excellent. All right, the second article is from Alvis Ng. He has an article in Medium called Human in the Loop is the Lie We Tell Oursel...