"Not everybody wants to be a manager, but the way that we’ve designed these systems is that the way people move up in your organization, the way they’re paid, how far their career track goes, is based on how many levels there are."

In this episode of Inside the Process, hosts Mallory and Shawn are joined by Barbara Gago, founder and CEO of Pando, to discuss rethinking career growth, feedback culture, and equitable career development. Barbara shares her experience designing career frameworks that empower individual contributors (ICs) and redefine what it means to grow in a role without the pressure of pursuing traditional leadership paths.

Barbara explains how outdated organizational structures and biases have created barriers for ICs, often limiting their growth. She dives into innovative strategies like creating more IC levels, introducing equitable leveling frameworks, and using feedback systems to retain and develop talent. Throughout the episode, Barbara highlights the importance of feedback as a tool for fostering transparency, reducing bias, and building psychologically safe workplaces.

Key Takeaways:

Develop leveling systems that recognize IC growth without defaulting to management roles. Equitable compensation and clear progression paths are critical.
Implement frameworks like “Start, Stop, Continue” or BIC (Behavior, Impact, Question) to provide actionable, unbiased feedback.
Embrace flat structures and redefine managerial roles as mentorship-focused, reducing unnecessary layers of hierarchy.
Use tools, templates, and regular training to ensure feedback is consistent, constructive, and part of daily processes.

Chapter Markers:

[1:08] - Meet Barbara Gago: A Leader in Career Growth

[2:51] - Creating Growth Tracks: A Framework for ICs

[7:45] - Breaking the Myth: Not Everyone Wants Leadership

[12:50] - Unbossing: Redefining Management Structures

[16:20] - The Peter Principle: Promoting People to Incompetence

[21:28] - Career Paths for Individual Contributors (ICs)

[28:00] - Tackling Bias in Feedback Systems

[32:20] - Continuous Improvement through Constructive Feedback

[36:00] - Using feedback as a tool for performance enhancement and retention.

Resources:

Want more resources from this episode? We’ve got an episode recap, replay and every template, process, and resource we covered right here: https://trainual.com/insidetheprocess

Trainual

Inside The Process provides solutions for every aspect of the business — from process headaches and system improvement to self-management and leveling up as a leader.

Mallory Glessner and Shawn Jensen sit down with some of the brightest business minds and unpack their specialized insights to help you improve and level up the work you’re doing.

This is one of a few podcasts from Trainual, a software platform that helps businesses build playbooks to train and grow their team. You can check out the rest of our shows here: https://trainual.com/insidetheprocess

Ep. 21 How to build career growth paths (that don't always lead to leadership) w/ Barbra Gago