Peshmerga - Part 5

Summary

Episode Summary: Inside The Team Room – Peshmerga, Part 5 (February 5, 2017)

Overview

This episode of Inside The Team Room delves into the unique experiences of Western veterans volunteering, fighting, and sometimes contracting with the Kurdish Peshmerga forces. The central theme examines the evolving dynamic between foreign volunteers, paid soldiers, and private military contractors at a time when traditional deployments and contracting jobs are drying up for US veterans. The conversation, featuring host interactions with guests Kurt and Joey, reveals not just personal war stories but also the cultural nuances, practical realities, and tight-knit brotherhood of those who choose this unconventional path.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Blurred Lines Between Volunteer, Paid Soldier, and Contractor

• Historical Context

  • Kurt references the cyclical nature of veterans seeking combat or employment overseas after wartime drawdowns, drawing parallels to post-Vietnam mercenary trends and historic units paid per combat achievement.

    "This is kind of a recurring trend in history... after Vietnam, that's where going over to Rhodesia to volunteer their services over there." — Kurt [01:05]

• Modern Evolution

  • Increased complexity as veterans shift from volunteers to paid soldiers and private security contractors, sometimes without intentionally seeking payment.
  • The realities of the current lull in standard US Army deployments and a shrinking pool of private security contracts.

2. Personal Journeys: Kurt & Joey’s Path

• Volunteer Beginnings

  • Kurt describes starting as an unpaid volunteer, motivated by the cause and basic needs.

    "Feed me, give me a rifle, give me some bullets, put me where I need to go, I'll do my job and I'm happy." — Kurt [01:47]

• Becoming Paid Soldiers

  • Transitioned into units that paid them dues out of cultural obligation, not just transactional agreement.

    "It's like, it's shameful for them to not pay us and have us here." — Kurt [03:57]

• Contracting and Living Abroad

  • Kurt balances frontline involvement with side work in private security, helping him "live a little more comfortably" without losing his original purpose.

    "To do something on the side and split my time helps me one, live a little more comfortably, which is always nice." — Kurt [04:40]

• Shared Brotherhood and Adaptation

  • Both credit luck and patience for their ability to find meaningful roles. Joey describes enduring financial hardship while searching for purpose before reconnecting with Kurt.

    "Sat in the house for about three months with no money, just waiting around. And this guy gave me a call..." — Joey [07:22]

3. Cultural Integration and Trust-Building

• Earning Respect

  • Building trust with Kurdish comrades involves investment, patience, and acceptance of cultural differences.

    "You have to show them that you're here for the cause... You have to invest in relationships and people and be willing to accept cultural differences and kind of almost embrace it." — Kurt [05:25]

• Embracing Local Customs

  • The duo jokes about "going full curd," literally adopting local styles and mannerisms.

    "Actually, one of our pictures... I had my pants, like rolled up to here. Then I had flip flops on and old crouching with an AK and he's like, oh, he's fighting in flip flops. Now he's got full curd." — Kurt [05:51]

4. The Western Volunteer Network

• Size and Structure

  • Estimates of current Westerners and foreign volunteers serving with the Peshmerga vary but hover between 50 to 100, with networks spanning different groups and regions.

    "I'd say maybe around 100 right now. 50 to 100." — Kurt [08:20] "So maybe there's like 75, like something like that." — Joey [08:58]

• Community Dynamics

  • Westerners tend to know or know of each other, even across groups, echoing the interconnectedness of the contractor world.

5. Challenges and Serendipity

• Hardships and Fortitude

  • Many foreign volunteers go home during tough periods, but those who stay often find new, unexpected opportunities through relationships and persistence.

    "Being a little patient when other guys were going home... we're going to stick around and do our thing..." — Kurt [04:55]

• Special Forces Dreams, Living "Indige"

  • The interviewer highlights how their story mirrors the Special Forces ideal of working with indigenous forces, a rarity even among current Green Berets.

    "You're kind of living the Special Forces dream, going indige. You know, there's not too many Green Berets these days you can even do that." — Interviewer [09:17]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Mercenaries, volunteers and just have been part of war since, since wolves and you know, somebody threw a rock at somebody else." — Kurt [01:27]
• "They want to take care of you, right?" — Interviewer [03:54]
• "It's part of that cultural thing where they're like, you know, it's a shame for them to not pay us and just take us for free. So we get our peshmonger wages." — Kurt [03:57]
• "It's alongside the guys... There's definitely some brotherhood there." — Kurt & Joey [06:51–06:58]
• "That's another interesting thing about the Westerners. It's a very tight network." — Kurt [07:50]
• "I never expected it to happen." — Joey [07:49]
• "You're American, So cool." — Joey [09:11]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:11–01:05 – Setting up the discussion: Foreign volunteers vs. paid soldiers vs. contractors
• 01:05–02:36 – Kurt’s progression from US Marine to Peshmerga volunteer
• 02:36–04:40 – Transition to paid soldier and private contracting; social integration
• 04:40–05:25 – Coping with hardship, patience, and cultural adaptation
• 05:25–06:02 – Building trust and going “full curd”
• 06:02–07:49 – Joey’s account: hardship, networking, opportunity
• 07:50–09:00 – Discussion on the size and nature of the Western volunteer network
• 09:11–09:44 – Final thoughts: Living the Special Forces “dream”

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Conclusion

This episode provides an authentic, inside look at the complex reality and evolving identity of Westerners fighting alongside the Peshmerga. Through the voices of Kurt and Joey, listeners gain insight into the motivations, challenges, fraternity, and adaptability required for Western veterans in modern foreign conflicts. Their journey speaks to themes of perseverance, cultural respect, and the enduring appeal—despite risks and hardships—of seeking purpose on distant battlefields.

Transcript

[Interviewer]

So I guess one of the last

[Kurt]

things I wanted to get into was

[Interviewer]

something you had mentioned to me after that battle the other day, Kurt, was this sort of paradigm that may be emerging is the dynamics between becoming a foreign volunteer, a paid soldier or a private military contractor. And that there's a sort of blending of it now that as we're in a time when combat deployments are winding down for the US army guys aren't getting deployed overseas. And with that there aren't as many private security contracts out there for veterans to go out on and have that kind of employment. So I wanted, if you were willing to talk about your experience with this, you know, as a veteran going from active duty Marine to volunteer soldier to paid Peshmerga to private security contractor.

[Kurt]

Well, as we know this is kind of a reoccurring trend in history. I mean after Vietnam, that's where going over to Rhodesia to volunteer the services over there. And I mean through. What was it? What was that? The squadron of World War II that was paid for every Nazi plane they shot down?

[Interviewer]

I can't remember, was it Tiger Swan?

[Kurt]

It might have been. I can't remember.

[Interviewer]

I can't remember either.

[Kurt]

But it's, you know, mercenaries, volunteers and just have been part of war since, since wolves and you know, somebody threw a rock at somebody else. It's. And I mean we even see it with Ukraine, it's huge.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And Azov and Donbass.

[Kurt]

Yeah, yeah. Over here it's. We see it emerging not as large a scale, it's just complex I guess. But for me personally it's just, I find it holds very true because I came over the potential of just volunteering all this. Never asked for money, never wanted any. I'm just like, feed me, give me a rifle, give me some bullets, put me where I need to go, I'll do my job and I'm happy. I got food in my belly and places to sleep and a righteous battle to fight. No problem. Then when I left the 9th Brigade, I ended up in a different unit after hopping around, met some contractors in between then and there because didn't really have another Peshmer unit to go to.

[Interviewer]

And then actual paid western contractors.

[Kurt]

Yeah, yeah, it's actually German but we went to a few contractor parties and UN parties and had some there. We're all these long haired, we've only been out of the peshmerga, you know, front for like two weeks. We're like just look like crazy and straggling.

[Joey]

Yeah.

[Kurt]

They're all looking at us like we're animals. And like, holy shit, what are these guys? They're not American military. We're all getting drunk and being loud anyway, but. And then ended up not being. I was on the way to a contract with that particular contact and an opportunity came up to come to the Peshmurg unit I'm with now. And we're told they're a very elevated force, more specialized unit. They have better funding. They do more direct action stuff, which has come. Everything's come to fruition. They're very professional. They are almost involved in every offensive we do in the area. So that's very nice. And then we've come into the opportunity of training. But when we got here, they paid us. We didn't ask for it, but it's like. Well, it's like, it's shameful for them to not pay us and have us here because it's.

[Interviewer]

They want to take care of you, right?

[Kurt]

Yeah. It's part of that cultural thing where they're like, you know, it's a shame for them to not pay us and just take us for free. So we get our peshmonger wages. And then through being here and meeting people and doing what I'm doing, coming to a company where we're getting into the private security sector where we do rotations between the two and. Because I won't stop doing what I'm here to do, but to do something on the side and split my time helps me one, live a little more comfortably, which is always nice. It's not a lot, but it's enough for me to live in. Kirsten's somewhat comfortable.

[Interviewer]

You'll have enough Tiger energy drinks, right?

[Kurt]

You know what I mean? Cigarettes. And go out and get a nice meal once in a while. Maybe go out to the bar a couple times during the month or something. Socialize with Joey. That's it. This guy. But it's just funny how it's kind of come to that. It's all. Like I said, we've been very lucky, very fortunate. Just happenstance. And also being a little patient when other guys were going home, packing their bags and saying, I'm calling it quits because there was a lull or it was a tough time. We're like, yeah, we're going to stick around and do our thing and keep. Eventually it'll get better, or something else come along.

[Interviewer]

So develop that relationship with the people here. And I mean, you build trust over time.

[Kurt]

Absolutely. That's a big thing. You have to. For them to really respect you. One you have to show them that you're here for the cause and you're here. You have to show them who you are. You have to invest in relationships and people and be willing to accept cultural differences and kind of almost embrace it a little bit. We joke about going full curd. Actually, one of our pictures, the group picture we took, we were in all kit, but I had my pants, like rolled up to here. Then I had flip flops on and old crouching with an ak and he's like, oh, he's fighting in flip flops. Now he's got full curd. What about you, Joey?

[Interviewer]

What do you think of this phenomenon? Especially that you went from YPG to Peshmerga, you know, getting into some of these other activities.

[Joey]

I feel very grateful and I'd say lucky, honestly, we both. I mean, we were both in ninth together. He came a couple weeks after I did and, you know, we split off and just ended up coming back together here. But, you know, it's nothing I ever expected to happen coming here. And honestly, I don't think that there's anybody else in our position, at least going from foreign fighter to where we're at now, but grateful for the opportunity. I just feel really lucky. You know, I'm able to help on multiple fronts. You know, doing training with the troops who are going to go out there, and then also being able to fight when I'm needed.

[Kurt]

And it's alongside the guys.

[Joey]

Yeah, exactly.

[Kurt]

There's definitely some brotherhood there.

[Joey]

I'm just extremely grateful for the opportunity. Patience played a big part in it. You know, like he was saying when he left 9th of gate, I left shortly or a little bit before he did with a group of guys, got a house in Erbil. Some of the guys went off to do some super secretive stuff somewhere in the world. And we hung back in Erbil, planning on getting a job at a security company fell through. Some of the guys went. Some of the guys went and joined the group. You were at the compound, the security company, waiting on contracts with them. And I just hung around waiting to hear word. Sat in the house for about three months with no money, just waiting around. And this guy gave me a call. He was like, hey, you want to come down where we're at? And then I got here and here I am. I never expected it to happen.

[Kurt]

That was another interesting thing about the Westerners. It's a very tight network. Once you've been here a while, you generally tend to know all the Westerners, tend to know each other. So especially in different groups or you at least know somebody. It's almost like the contractor world, where you're like, hey, man, what are you guys doing? Or like, sometimes they'll call and they're like, hey, what's going on in your ao?

[Interviewer]

That's another question I had. How many foreigners do you think are in the peshmerga? Western or, you know, non Kurdish?

[Kurt]

It's really hard to say, to be honest, because it's. It's, you know, there's so many you don't know as well.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Kurt]

But I'd say maybe around 100 right now. 50 to 100.

[Joey]

Including Dwight Nasha.

[Kurt]

Yeah. Or guys like that, Other groups like that, the Christian Moshe groups who work closely with them like that. You're.

[Joey]

You're looking at, I'd say probably 70 or so, just because I can kind of. You can kind of see them on Facebook, pictures of each other. I know that there's only about three locations. Three or four, maybe one, I don't know about that. Have volunteers there. One of the locations, there's a ton of them. The Dweck Nasha guys maybe got about 10. Then you got the guys from ninth. There's like a handful there. And then assuming that there are guys

[Interviewer]

like us who don't post many pictures,

[Joey]

so maybe there's like 75, like something like that.

[Kurt]

Yesterday when we met those. Well, you knew one of them. You knew one of the guys, the Westerners, but they were with a pechemary unit we didn't even know had Westerners. Hey, what's up, guys?

[Joey]

You're American, So cool.

[Kurt]

Yeah, yeah. You guys out of Krakuk? Oh, no, we're out of here. Oh, man, we're all over the place.

[Interviewer]

I think it's pretty amazing that you guys rolled in here and not only survived but thrived in this kind of environment. Not too many people can do it, you know, and in a way, you're kind of living the Special forces dream, going indige. You know, there's not too many. I would say there's not too many Green Berets these days. You can even do that. So, I mean, thanks so much for

[Joey]

your time today and talking to us

[Interviewer]

and good luck out there. Thanks so much.