Why Melania's New Grab Is Terrifying Trump: Wolff

Summary

Inside Trump's Head – Episode Summary

Podcast: Inside Trump's Head
Hosts: Michael Wolff & Joanna Coles
Episode Title: Why Melania's New Grab Is Terrifying Trump: Wolff
Date: July 22, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Michael Wolff and Joanna Coles delve into the psyche of Donald Trump amidst several crises and transitions. They dissect the remarkably strained relationship between Donald and Melania Trump, explore the White House’s reactionary media tactics, analyze the ongoing “forever war” in the Strait of Hormuz, and forecast Trump’s grip on both the presidency and his party as he faces midterm anxieties, legal woes, and the ambitions of J.D. Vance. The discussion weaves together White House palace intrigue, global consequences, and the oddities of political ambition in both the U.S. and U.K.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Melania Trump’s Mysterious Re-Emergence & White House Anxiety

• Melania's Rare Appearances: Melania Trump has made just 14-16 public appearances in 2026, drawing comparisons to much more active previous First Ladies ([09:03], [10:26]).
• Negotiated Appearances: Each public appearance is carefully negotiated, signaling tension between her and the White House. Unlike Michelle Obama or Jill Biden, Melania is almost entirely absent, especially during crucial moments like the 2024 campaign and Trump’s court appearances ([10:59], [13:09]).
• White House Fear: Staff are reportedly “afraid of what she’s going to do.” Melania’s recent business ventures—and the attention they attract—are unsettling for Trump, who demands the spotlight ([00:15], [13:09]):
  • “This business of hers seems to make her the center of attention, which puts her in kind of direct conflict with the President of the United States, who, as we know, can't stand anyone else being the center of attention.” – Joanna Coles [00:15], [13:13]
• Nature of Their Relationship: The hosts paint their marriage as historically "strange" and essentially non-existent. Michael draws a pointed comparison to Eleanor and FDR, but notes that unlike Eleanor, Melania “doesn’t appear to enjoy anything to do with being First Lady” ([13:49], [14:35]).

2. The Richard Gere Outburst: A Glimpse Inside Trump’s Head

• Stephen Chung’s Controversial Remark: White House communications director Stephen Chung attacks actor Richard Gere with a “derogatory, debilitating” old urban legend, unprompted ([01:38]–[03:32]).
• Root Cause: Both hosts agree this attack likely came not from Chung himself, but as an echo of Trump’s personal grudge and outdated mental fixations:
  • “Inside Trump's head is at a fixed point decades and decades ago.” – Joanna Coles [06:24]
  • “It made me wonder if Donald Trump himself had actually come up with the rumor, because ... Richard Gere was... married an actual supermodel... as opposed to Donald Trump marrying Melania, who he pretended was a supermodel, but we know, in fact wasn't really a model of any great note. And I wondered if it was just some sort of wild jealousy that is still lodged somewhere in a file in Donald Trump's brain.” – Michael Wolff [07:02]
• Insight: These personal vendettas, sparked by jealousy or ancient slights, are a window into how the President makes decisions and directs his team.

3. The “Forever War” and Trump’s Global Entanglements

• Strait of Hormuz Crisis: Trump’s administration is mired in a protracted, unpopular conflict in the Gulf region. The war is escalating (now involving the Houthis and threatening additional vital oil routes), but fading from mainstream news—a classic “forever war” ([16:51]–[19:21]).
• Strategic Implications:
  • “A forever war becomes a forever war because people start to forget that the war is going on or it goes on to the back burner.” – Joanna Coles [17:21]
  • Point raised that Trump—who campaigned against such wars—has now found himself trapped in one, with little means or will to exit.
• Diplomatic Amateurism: Negotiations are managed by real estate figures like Steve Witkoff, with disastrous results, and the administration is criticized for its lack of expertise ([21:16]).

4. Trump vs. Senate Republicans and Cabinet Confirmations

• Midterm Stakes: Trump’s escalating conflict with Senate Republicans over war powers and key confirmations (Todd Blanche for Attorney General, Jay Clayton) ([22:05]–[25:14]).
• Senate Power Brokers: Previously attacked senators John Cornyn and Thom Tillis are now pivotal for Trump's agenda, demonstrating “the weird position” Trump has put himself in by alienating allies ([24:12]).
  • “They turn out to be hinge senators who couldn't be more important to him.” – Michael Wolff [24:12]
• Potential for Retribution or Compromise: Discussion of whether these senators will use their leverage for revenge or simply acquiesce to avoid career-ending battles ([25:14]).

5. Looming Lame Duck Status & GOP Fractures

• Lame Duck Consequences: If Democrats capture the House and additional seats, Trump risks becoming a deeply constrained leader, facing investigation and legislative obstruction ([28:52]–[29:38]).
• Internal Party Distance: Republican contenders, notably J.D. Vance, are already working “publicly to proclaim their distance” from Trump, in anticipation of 2028 ([29:38]):
  • “We're already seeing this now with this... the single biggest thing he's demanding of Congress is... which they won't do... that's a clear rebuff. But then individuals are going to start to come out. We saw J.D. Vance this past week go on Joe Rogan, and God damn if he wasn't basically publicly proclaiming his distance from Donald Trump.” – Joanna Coles [29:38]
• Comparison to VP Dilemmas: The complex position of Vance as Vice President facing a weakened “boss” is discussed, drawing parallels to previous political transitions and ambitions ([35:04]).

6. U.K. Politics and Trump’s Perceptions

• Andy Burnham & U.K.-U.S. Relations: With a new British Prime Minister, speculation on how Andy Burnham will manage Trump and whether he'll challenge or appease him ([40:37]–[43:53]).
  • “The question for Andy Burnham ... is how does he deal with Donald Trump? ... Keir Starmer, his predecessor, dealt with Donald Trump by, how should we say it, as bending over. And. And I wonder if Andy Burnham will take the opposite tact. And that tact would be the... Hugh Grant tact.” – Joanna Coles [41:18]
• Nigel Farage’s Farce: The hosts laugh about Farage running unopposed after a funding scandal and debate about Count Bin Face, highlighting the absurdities of British politics ([45:13]–[48:32]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“They don't know what she's going to do, and they are afraid of it. This business of hers seems to make her the center of attention, which puts her kind of in direct conflict with the President of the United States, who, as we know, can't stand anyone else being the center of attention. Doesn't mind you making money, but do not steal the limelight.”
— Joanna Coles [00:15]/[13:13]

“Inside Trump’s head is at a fixed point decades and decades ago.”
— Joanna Coles [06:24]

“Richard Gere is handsomer than anybody.”
— Michael Wolff [08:04]

“Absolutely. Fair to say, the strangest marriage in the history of all presidential marriages.”
— Joanna Coles [13:09]

“A forever war becomes a forever war because people start to forget that the war is going on or it goes on to the back burner. … The guy who promised no more forever wars has gotten himself into a forever war.”
— Joanna Coles [17:21]

“They turn out to be hinge senators who couldn’t be more important to him.”
— Michael Wolff [24:12]

“J.D. Vance was clearly putting distance between himself and Donald Trump. And I think we will see that across the spectrum of 2028 contenders.”
— Joanna Coles [29:38]

“All of the people who run for president have an ambition, not only is it outside, but probably pathological.”
— Michael Wolff [39:57]

“Keir Starmer...dealt with Donald Trump by, how should we say it, as bending over. And I wonder if Andy Burnham will take the opposite tact. And that tact would be...the Hugh Grant tact.”
— Joanna Coles [41:18]

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Segment Timestamps for Reference

• Melania's Public Absence and White House Anxiety: [00:15], [13:09]–[14:35]
• Richard Gere Outburst/Analysis of Trump’s Grudges: [01:38]–[08:07]
• Melania’s Rare Appearances and "Negotiated" Role: [09:03], [10:20]–[13:09]
• Strait of Hormuz Crisis / Forever War: [16:51]–[21:16]
• Cabinet Confirmations & Senate Drama: [22:05]–[26:24]
• Midterms, Lame Duck Consequences, and Republican Fractures: [28:52]–[36:14]
• J.D. Vance’s Ambition & Book Discussion: [31:43]–[36:04]
• UK Politics, Andy Burnham, Farage: [40:37]–[48:32]

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Tone and Takeaways

Wolff and Coles maintain their signature blend of wit, skepticism, and deep experience—mingling high-level political analysis with biting asides and personal anecdotes. The episode underscores the unpredictable, often theatrical nature of Trump’s leadership and social circles, as well as the broader implications of his temperament for U.S. governance and geopolitics.

For listeners/newcomers:
Expect a frank, occasionally irreverent inside look at power games—where personal jealousies, ambition, and instability threaten to reshape U.S. and world politics both inside and outside the Trump White House.

Transcript

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[Michael]

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[Co-host/Analyst]

they don't know what she's going to do, and they are afraid of it. This business of hers seems to make her the center of attention, which puts her in kind of in direct conflict with the President of the United States, who, as we know, can't stand anyone else being the center of attention. Doesn't mind you making money, but do not steal the limelight,

[Michael]

Michael. Joanna, I'm sorry it's a Tuesday and you're not in the studio with me, but I will say you've missed a stonker of a day. It is. It's steaming in New York, and it's. We're waiting for the storm to begin any moment.

[Co-host/Analyst]

I think we're waiting for that here, too. But it's actually kind of on the cool side.

[Michael]

Nice. Well, enjoy. Enjoy. And I'm sorry you're not here in

[Co-host/Analyst]

the studio, but this is my summer vacation.

[Michael]

Oh, this is yours. This one day, your summer vacation. And you're working on it. Good. That's the kind of vacation I take, too. So we have a lot to discuss, not least Melania. And your observations, having talked to people, that relations between Melania and Donald Trump are at their worst since the Stormy Daniels trial.

[Co-host/Analyst]

Lowest ebb, I think we say.

[Michael]

Lowest ebb. So they're at their lowest ebb. I would say that the Strait of Hormuz and the Forever War is at a new low ebb. And we're gonna look at that. Also, Trump up against two of the people that he's been torturing, Thom Tillis and John Cornyn are now torturing him. Back over whether or not to confirm Todd Blanche. But I wanted to start with a sort of remarkable outburst from Stephen Chung, the communications director. The White House communications director, or you

[Co-host/Analyst]

might call him the outburst Director.

[Michael]

The Outburst director. Outrage director. And I hope we can put up some pictures of him here because not everybody will know him. He's not as out front as Carolyn Levitt, the White House press spokesperson, is. But this was an attack on Richard Gere, the actor, who's in his 70s now. And I don't want to repeat what he said. But it did. It dug up a very old, early Internet rumor about Richard Gere.

[Co-host/Analyst]

And that actually rumor predated even the Internet.

[Michael]

Is it possible anything predates the Internet?

[Co-host/Analyst]

Well, yes, me, I predate the Internet.

[Michael]

I guess I do, too. I guess probably a lot of our listeners predate the Internet, but it seems impossible to remember back. But he just had this sort of wild outburst against Richard Gere. And, well, it was just a very strange thing to come from.

[Co-host/Analyst]

And I understand we don't want to repeat this because, I mean,

[Advertiser]

this is

[Co-host/Analyst]

one of those things that happened, I think, beyond explanation, that there was this rumor about Richard Gere, you know, a dark, terrible, inexplicable, and I would say, impossible rumor about Richard Gere, that. That achieved enormous velocity at a point in time. And this is a long time ago. This is certainly the. The late 70s, 80s, and. And it was absolutely untrue and absolutely meaningless, but completely derogatory and kind of, from a reputation standpoint, kind of debilitating. Now, Richard Gere long since has gotten past that. The rumor doesn't. Kind of faded into nothingness is. And it. And certainly faded into irrelevancy until yesterday when Stephen Chung, and I've been puzzled about this. What would have motivated him to say such a thing, to resurrect such a ridiculous thing? Now, Richard Gere has been saying things against Donald Trump and the Trump administration, which, by the way, does not make him unique in any sense.

[Michael]

Right. Almost the entire of Hollywood does that.

[Co-host/Analyst]

Hollywood, almost certainly half or more of the nation does that at any given given moment. But. So why was Richard Gere suddenly singled out? And why was he singled out in this in such a. A low way? And I thought, well, you know, Stephen, they're mad at Richard Gere. The President is mad at Richard Gere. So Stephen Chung was. Was assigned this job, his daily assassination here, and somehow he pulled this out of his hat. But I don't think that's true. And I think that this must be. And we're at a. We don't want to repeat this rumor. Do we have to? No, let's try.

[Michael]

And if you really want to go and inspect the rumor, you can go and read about it on the Daily Beast, because we had a long conversation about how do we cover this story. And again, it's only relevant because it's the White House communications director channeling very clearly, I think his boss, the President of the United States, and right now, the most powerful man in the world.

[Co-host/Analyst]

I think that that's. I mean, I think that that is the thing, and it is this. This other thing inside Trump's head. Inside Trump's head is at a fixed point decades and decades ago. So this rumor, Rumor, this This ridiculous, ridiculous urban myth about Richard Gere is still in Donald Trump's head. And he must have been the one who brought this up again, because actually, Stephen Cheung is probably even too young to know this, right?

[Michael]

When we talked about it in the office, most of the people in our office didn't know about. I'm probably the oldest person in our office at the moment, and, you know, I remembered it. And it also made me wonder if Donald Trump himself had actually come up with the rumor, because at the time, you know, Richard Gere was the star of American Gigolo, went on to do Pretty Woman, married an actual supermodel, Cindy Crawford, as opposed to Donald Trump marrying Melania, who he pretended was a supermodel, but we know, in fact wasn't really a model of any great note. And I wondered if it was just some sort of wild jealousy that is still lodged somewhere in a file in Donald Trump's brain.

[Co-host/Analyst]

And that's the way things happen in the White House. It's Donald Trump who was incensed about Richard Gere. Something he saw, something someone said, something he has some association with Richard Gere. Richard Gere is handsomer than he is. Has.

[Michael]

Oh, Richard Gere is handsomer than anybody.

[Advertiser]

Yes.

[Co-host/Analyst]

Is ultimately, in that Hollywood context, much more successful than Donald Trump ever was. All of those reasons in which he might have been envious of Richard Gere. So, I mean, these things, these sparks go off in Donald Trump's head, they're not connected to anything reasonable. They're connected to a kind of a. Kind of a set of random memories that come together at any given moment to create this moment of anger and resentment. And then he puts that together with this urban myth, libel, which no one knows about anymore except Donald Trump because he's 80 years old. And there it comes out of Stephen Chung's mouth.

[Michael]

It was just a crazy. A crazy moment, as is the fact that we really have seen almost nothing of the first lady this year, which is why it was a surprise to see her. We've seen her, I think, three times this month at UFC at the Fireworks, and she was there with Baron at the World Cup Final on Sunday. And actually, I looked it up. She's done approximately 14 to 16 public appearances this year. Well, you talk about this on your substack this week.

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[Co-host/Analyst]

And these are, these are all just. Just to negotiate, just to note negotiated appearances.

[Michael]

We'll come on to what that means in a minute. But if you compare it to Michelle Obama was doing between 100 and 150 public appearances a year. Laura Bush did roughly 120 a year, and Jill Biden did well. She was on well over 100 trips alongside Joe Biden. Now, you might argue that she needed to be there with Joe Biden. When you say negotiated, what do you mean?

[Co-host/Analyst]

And let's just step back also, just to the, you know, the context here is she'd made no appearances during the 2024 campaign until basically, she did an appearance in the last week of the campaign. He was in had he was indicted four times, myriad court appearances, never once appearing with him. And that was always in my book about the campaign. I recount one aide going to her and trying to ask her as politely and nicely, gently as possible, if she would come to court with him. And she just broke up in laughter and said, nice try.

[Michael]

She broke up in laughter.

[Co-host/Analyst]

In laughter.

[Michael]

In laughter. Nice try. Nice try, Donald. I'm not coming to court. I won't be in court. Except divorce court. Okay, well, the appearances she's done this year, there's so few. So I can run through them quickly. New Year's, sort of public holiday events. On February 13, which was her next public visit, as far as we know, she made a visit to Fort Bragg. And then she showed up on Valentine's President Day Weekend at Mar A Lago Women's History Month. She did an event at the White House. She did the Easter Egg Roll in April. There was a White House Mother's Day event in the spring. There were some ceremonies promoting Melania's initiative. I think there was one about foster children, Independence Day celebration and the FIFA World Cup. And of course, I include UFC in the celebrations for July. But what is she doing the rest of the time? And do you think? I mean, I do have questions about her. Cause it's very odd that she's missing. And she is particularly elegant. So I always like to know what she's wearing when she shows up. What is she doing? What's she do with all her time?

[Co-host/Analyst]

Absolutely. Fair to say, the strangest marriage in the history of all presidential marriages. You Know, I just did this subsect piece on this. You know, this, the wild card. They don't know what she's going to do and they are afraid of it. Even more disturbing to the White House is that this business of hers seems to make her the center of attention, which puts her kind of in direct conflict with the President of the United States, who, as we know, can't stand anyone else being the center of attention. Doesn't mind you making money, but do not steal the limelight.

[Michael]

Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I'm sure there will be people listening to this, thinking, wait a minute, wait a minute. FDR and Eleanor Roosevelt had a pretty odd relationship. And I've got something I want to read in a minute, but I think what's very clear, and they obviously did have a different sort of relationship, but Eleanor Roosevelt clearly loved being First Lady. She was great at being first lady. And what's so interesting about Melania is she doesn't appear to enjoy anything to do with being first lady. I mean, she looks like she's forced to turn out and she looks utterly miserable when she's, when she's there. And for someone who was a model and used to being in front of the camera, she's remarkably reticent.

[Co-host/Analyst]

I mean, I think it's also a different thing. I mean, all marriages have their issues. All marriages have their problems. All marriages are dissimilar in the various ways. They are dissimilar. But this has gotten. This isn't a marriage. I mean, they just don't live together. I mean, I mean, Eleanor Roosevelt and Franklin Roosevelt was having an affair. All of the, I mean, many presidents seem to have had, have had affairs, but, you know, as many marriages. But, you know, but there is that moment do, are you together or are you not together? This is at some level binary and they aren't together.

[Michael]

Right. Well, I wonder if she'll be there. In his final days. I was up at. I think I mentioned this. I was up at Hyde park, the FDR library, a couple of weekends ago. And I took a photo of what they say about Lucy Mercer Rutherford, who was with him at the end. Among the people with FDR at Warm Springs during his final days was Lucy Mercer Rutherford, with whom he'd had a relationship before. After her affair with FDR ended in 1918, Lucy had married a wealthy widower, Winthrop Rutherford. But she and FDR continued to correspond. And during the 1940s, they began seeing each other again. Lucy was with FDR when he was stricken on April 12, 1940. But she left Warm Springs before he died. And Eleanor's sense of betrayal was revived, especially when she discovered that her daughter Anna had assisted in arranging the meetings between the two of them. So it was just a sort of interesting perspective on a presidential marriage. And of course, as you say, this one is quite bizarre. Cause who knows what Melania is doing with her time. Yes, I see that she made $17 million, but how on earth does she spend her day? What is she doing? Does she get up? Does she go to the gym? Is she going shopping? Is she designing things?

[Co-host/Analyst]

Here's a perspective from the White House. That one person in the White House I know refers to it as the Charles and Diana of it all.

[Michael]

The Charles and Diana of it all. How intriguing. Moving swiftly on, Michael. Moving swiftly on to the Strait of Hormuz. The president of Hormuz, as we call him. It's.

[Co-host/Analyst]

We're now waging the Battle of Hormuz.

[Michael]

Right. And I have a question for you, which is, how does a forever war become a forever war? How do you know you're in a quagmire?

[Co-host/Analyst]

Well, that's a good question, but let's do the first one. How does a forever war become a forever war? Well, that might be the kind of good news for Donald Trump, which is, I think, that a forever war becomes a forever war because people start to forget that the war is going on or it goes on to the back burner. It's no longer top of the news. I mean, for instance, we didn't begin today's podcast with that story, because what can you say? What can you say that we haven't said before about this? He doesn't. He got himself into a war that he. He doesn't know how to get out of. But one of the reasons that you don't get out of it is because people stop. They stop yelling at you about it. It just goes on and on in the background. And that would be. Politically, that might not be so bad for Donald Trump that it's not the top headline anymore. But, and I think, again, this is our job now, is to say it does go on. It is a forever war. The guy who promised no more forever wars has gotten himself into a forever war, which gets more and more complicated, more and more difficult to extricate himself from day by day. We now have. And it gets bigger, too, more complex and bigger. We now have the Houthis apparently joining this war. And so we have the Strait of. Of Hormuz, which has been essentially closed down to 20% of the world's oil. But now the Houthis are threatening to close down the strait between the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden, I think it is. And that's another like 12% of the world's oil. So. So, damn. I don't know what Donald Trump does. I don't know what he can do, and he doesn't know what he's doing.

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[Co-host/Analyst]

Well, it clearly is of zero value now. Now, but still, the likelihood, again, is that they will come up with another ceasefire, which will then, in its own way, erode, or then, in its own way, be a. Be a establish the Iranian superiority in this situation, or. And people are slightly starting to get afraid of this, Donald Trump will actually invade, put boots on the ground. Now, I tend to think that even Donald Trump would not be that stupid, but. Those are words you probably don't want to get caught saying.

[Michael]

Meanwhile, back at home, as he gears up for the midterms, he's still trying to get Todd Blanche confirmed and Jay Clayton confirmed.

[Co-host/Analyst]

Well, even before we get to that, which is Obviously, top of mind for him. But the other thing is that this is about his problems with Republicans in Congress. And he has a set of problems with Republicans in Congress, including top of, top of the list is the Iranian war. I mean, he has the. Was that just last week? Yeah, I think, I think so. When, when the Republicans, enough Republicans joined with the Democrats to say, hey, you cannot go to war without our approval. This is, you know, the Constitution of the United States. You cannot do this. And, and it was a kind of rebuke, almost a censure. But now he is back to war with again without consulting Congress, back to war and at the same time asking Congress to fund this war. And that may not happen. I mean, well, I mean, from the Republican standpoint, I mean, and looking out at a midterm election, here they are being asked to fund an incredibly unpopular war. Now they're not only being asked to fund an incredibly unpopular war, but it's now a war that they voted against last week. So the position that they're in now is, well, we told you not to do this, but because you're Donald Trump, we're going to give you the money to do it anyway. So how is that going to play with the midterms? And how's that going to play with his relationship with members of, of the Republican Party in Congress who he is asking now to, at least in the Senate to approve his pick for Attorney general?

[Michael]

Right. And both John Cornyn from Texas and Thom Tillis from North Carolina, both of whom Trump has attacked, he's called them losers, he's called them hopeless. And now, of course, Todd Blanche can't get confirmed without them, so they turn out to be hinge senators who couldn't be more important to him. And I suspect that both of them will roll over in the end because they don't want the hassle. And I'm sure that they both want lives post the Senate where they can make some money, and they don't want Trump coming after them endlessly and making it too difficult for them. But, but what a weird position for him to be in. And I wonder if for him it's just another day in Washington and this is how politics is. Or actually, if they are dug in and truly hate him, which they obviously do, and don't want to give him this last victory.

[Co-host/Analyst]

Well, one can only hope. But as you say, this is, this is power at a, to say the least, meaningful level. And Todd Blanche, whether he is confirmed or not, he will continue as the acting Attorney General with enormous power We've seen the White House use this power again and again and again to cause their. Its enemies enormous amounts of grief. I mean, nobody is going. All of these legal efforts against the enemies almost always come to naught. But before they come to nought, man, those are really steep legal bills. They really make you drop everything else. And this is what you have to do for a living, is to defend yourself. So Tillis at the age of 65 and Cornyn at the age of 74 might rightly say, life is too short. Yeah, let's just walk away from this.

[Michael]

Right? Let's just walk away. So if he does lose the House, and let's assume for a second he keeps the Senate, because the Democrats in Maine haven't figured out who's going to replace Graham Platner yet. But the.

[Co-host/Analyst]

Well, they've come pretty close to figuring it out. Now, whether that person can pull it out of the bag or not, we don't know.

[Michael]

So this is Troy Jackson we're talking about, who's been a senator. He's been on the state Senate in Maine. Yes.

[Co-host/Analyst]

And he will, by all accounts, become the Democratic nominee. And he's not an unreasonable candidate. I mean, he is in the grand Platner mode, but neither as tainted nor as charismatic as Graham Platner.

[Michael]

Yeah, I was going to say he's not as charismatic as Graham Platner, but he's not coming, as far as we know, trailing allegations of rape. So that's a good. That puts him ahead. But I wonder if he'll be a match for Susan Collins. He doesn't look. I hate to say this, but he doesn't look like a US Senator. What does a US Senator look like now?

[Co-host/Analyst]

Well, I think that's probably good, actually. Graham Platner was an oysterman. This guy is a logger. I think that people want. I mean, I think that's the message that's being sent all over. You shouldn't look like a United States Senator because a that look means you look like an old guy and you look like people. You don't look like America. So I think this guy probably has a reasonable chance. Why wouldn't he have a reasonable chance? If this is going to be a true blue wave? Of course he does in a blue state. You know, Susan Collins has won before, but we know her vulnerabilities are that she's a Republican, and when push comes to shove, she sides with Donald Trump.

[Michael]

Yeah, she makes a lot of sound and fury about nothing and then votes for him anyway. All right, well, Then let's just imagine that the Democrats do end up winning Maine and turfing Susan Collins out. And miracle of miracles, the blue wave hits Texas and Ken Paxton doesn't get elected and James Talarico gets elected instead, around which there is a lot of money right now. What does a lame duck presidency actually mean for Donald Trump? Does it mean that he spends his next two years tied up in all sorts of legal ramifications? What do you think it actually means for the country?

[Co-host/Analyst]

It means two things. Yes. The Congress will try to be, will become an incredible noose around his neck, burden on his shoulders. They will do everything possible to frustrate him and to humiliate him and to make him pay for being Donald Trump. And that may be good politics or bad politics. That's unclear because they've done this before and it turned out to be actually probably bad politics. But. But the other thing is, in terms of being a lame duck, is that things happen in his own party. So his own party begins to move further, further and further away from him. And we're already seeing this now with this incongruous. I mean, what he, the single biggest thing he is demanding of Congress is to pass the Save America act, which they won't do. I mean, they keep telling him we can't do it, but for whatever reason, that is not going to happen. That's a clear rebuff. But then individuals are going to start to come out. We saw J.D. vance this past week go on Joe Rogan, and God damn if he wasn't basically publicly proclaiming his distance from Donald Trump, in a way, during the 2024 race, when Kamala Harris, everybody was saying she's gotta get some more put distance between herself and Joe Biden, and she really didn't. But in this case, J.D. vance was clearly putting distance between himself and Donald Trump. And I think we will see that across the spectrum of 2028 contenders.

[Michael]

I'm halfway through J.D. vance's book, actually, which I actually am intrigued.

[Co-host/Analyst]

You're ahead of me.

[Michael]

Well, I had an interesting effort, actually, on Saturday. I was supposed to be going away for the weekend. The storm moved in. I developed a leak in my apartment ceiling. I'm on the top floor. And so I decided, you know what? The responsible thing to do is to stay with my apartment while there's evidently a hole in the roof. So I trotted off to try and buy a copy of Communion, because I thought, I'll have a day reading. And I went down to McNally Jackson in Soho, which is the Big, prestigious bookshop in Soho. It's a fabulous bookshop. They didn't have it. I walked up to the. And I felt almost. Almost like I was asking for something illegal. When I went up to the counter, I could see the woman looking at me askance. Anyway, she looks it up on the computer. They didn't have it. I then walked up to the Strand Bookshop, which is the other, you know, hugely prestigious miles and miles of books. The Strand is a wonderful bookstore. Constantly in movies. Not only did they not have it, but the man at the information desk made a point of telling me they had never ordered it. So I finally walked up to Union Square and found a pile of copies, all $5 off at Barnes and Noble. Thank you, Barnes and Noble, where I was served by a transgender person. This is my own personal odyssey to find communion. And so I thought this whole story around J.D. vance's book. It seemed interesting, but the first hundred pages in.

[Co-host/Analyst]

Can I interrupt? Just on a slight digression. So you read hard copy books?

[Michael]

I love hard copy books, and I like to write on them.

[Co-host/Analyst]

So you prefer that to electronic, but your default is still gonna go to a bookstore? Yeah.

[Michael]

And if I want to sit on a sat afternoon quietly and read, I want to be able to write on the book. I want to be able to fold the pages. I've got a visual memory, so I can remember.

[Co-host/Analyst]

On electronic, you can do all those things.

[Michael]

I know, but I hate doing that on electronic, saying, I can't find the notes again. And it's just quicker. It's just so much quicker. But what the book is actually about is J.D. vance's ambition. And what's fascinating is how he. He comes back to his religion, he moves to Catholicism because he can't quite satisfy his ambition and he doesn't want to. He keeps going on and on. And it's quite repetitive. The book, it should have been edited more. But he goes on about how he doesn't want to do decks for investment banks, how he doesn't want to work really long hours for. For a law firm. I'm just at the point where he's leaving Yale Law and he's gone to hear Peter Thiel speak. Peter Thiel just speaks to him in a different way. And the rest of the book is about to unfold. But actually what the book is about is J.D. vance pursuing his ambition, knowing that he has to make something of himself and he can't figure out how to do it.

[Co-host/Analyst]

Well, he so far has done. Hasn't done poorly.

[Michael]

No, he hasn't done poorly.

[Co-host/Analyst]

But, but I think that in terms of, in terms of this, this, you know, this moment is, is interesting for him, I mean, as looking at a lame duck boss who he wants to, I mean, always, this is a difficult and fascinating moment for vice presidents. They want to succeed the boss, but in order to succeed the boss, you have to offer something different than the boss. So, I mean, that's the part of the drama that's going to play out here within the administration itself. It's going to be Vance, it's going to be RFK Jr. It's going to be Hagseth, and I'm sure we will see several others rise up. And then we're going to hear from the, from, and we are already hearing the, the, the, the MAGA base outside of the White House who will, who are directly taking on Trump.

[Michael]

Right?

[Co-host/Analyst]

So this is, this is, this is, we're, we're gonna, this is gonna be an, an unhappy couple of years for

[Michael]

Donald Trump and probably the country we've

[Co-host/Analyst]

had this first year, which was, you know, oh my God, the most powerful. He's, he's seizing power all over. The dominance is going to crush us all. He is reinventing the presidency. The new book, the Haberman and Swan book, the New York Times reporters is basically about this, about the most powerful presidency ever. But actually that, that's already old and we're already passing into another phase of this presidency where Donald Trump is up against it almost on every issue that this presidency has raised. And then we move into a further phase of this when the midterms happen and the official lame duck period begins.

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[Co-host/Analyst]

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[Michael]

Did you see that he posted the first picture of JD Vance and Usha Vance's new baby?

[Co-host/Analyst]

I did not.

[Michael]

Well, I was trying to figure out if they'd organized for that because you would think that as parents, they might want to post their own first picture, but perhaps they wanted it for the baby that they could say, oh, you know, when the child is 25, your baby picture was posted by the President. Anyway, I also like to imagine that JD Vance texted it to Donald Trump and Donald Trump immediately put it out there before J.D. vance had the opportunity to tell everybody that they had a baby. Anyway, congratulations. They now have four children. And of course, that's. It's too much for the observatory. So they're buying a $9 million house 50 miles away because, like, Donald Trump is reconfiguring the White House. It turns out that the observatory can't quite contain the Vance family and they need a weekend place. So they're buying, well, as I said, a $9 million house in Virginia for the weekends.

[Co-host/Analyst]

What is the name of the child?

[Michael]

The child is being called Donald John. No, no, no, I'm making that up. The child is actually being called Alec Neal Vance.

[Co-host/Analyst]

That was very convincing.

[Michael]

For a moment, nothing would surprise me except that, as you say, and I

[Co-host/Analyst]

thought how smart that was. Literally how smart.

[Michael]

I think that, I mean, as you say, there was a moment when I think JD Vance would have done that. That moment has passed because he's got his eye firmly on the prize now.

[Co-host/Analyst]

But part of that prize is going to have to be the support of Donald Trump, which he may, you know, I mean, which Donald Trump will certainly be withholding.

[Michael]

Yeah, of course. But. But the one thing that comes out of this book is the scale of J.D. vance's ambition, that it's not going to be enough to be a high powered lawyer with a, with a Yale law degree. He doesn't want to go into investment banking.

[Co-host/Analyst]

In defense, all of the people who run for president have an ambition. Not only is outside, but probably pathological.

[Michael]

Right? Okay, well, it's pathological. It's on every page. You can see it. And now he's corralling the Catholic Church to give it a framework.

[Co-host/Analyst]

But I'm curious about his Catholicism. I'm curious about his spiritual understanding. So let's.

[Michael]

Well, I'll come back to it. This will hold my feet to the fire to finish it.

[Co-host/Analyst]

I'm going to read this damn book. But not in book form. I'll read it on my phone.

[Michael]

Okay, well, you can read it on your phone. I have to read it in book form. But Peter Thiel appears to be the Pied piper to Catholicism, at least where I am right now. And of course in Britain, where I know you love to go. And we did some podcasts earlier this year where you were at Claridge's Hotel. Only you could pull off the Claridge's Hotel thing quite so beautifully. Andy Burnham, new British Prime Minister. How is he going to get on with Donald Trump? What do we think Donald Trump thinks about him? Do we think that Donald Trump even cares that England has a new prime minister?

[Co-host/Analyst]

You know, these things come to him a little late. I mean, I think, as I've said before, I was the person who, in the spring of 2016, two weeks before the Brexit vote, told Donald Trump about Brexit. And it went like this, well, what's your view of Brexit? What Brexit? I said, you know, the vote in the UK to leave the European Union. I'm for that. So perhaps he has not yet been told that there is a new prime minister. But the question will be, I mean, the question for Andy Burnham, and it's kind of a central question, is how does he deal with Donald Trump? I mean, this is a kind of. I mean, Keir Starmer, his predecessor, dealt with Donald Trump by, how should we say it, as bending over. And. And I wonder if Andy Burnham will take the opposite tact. And that tact would be the. I guess we would call it the Hugh Grant tact. Why?

[Michael]

What did Hugh Grant, as Prime Minister in love actually do to.

[Co-host/Analyst]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Michael]

What does he do to the American president?

[Co-host/Analyst]

Oh, my God. He stands with him at number 10 and dresses him down and says, you know, you're not. We're a small nation, but a fierce nation, and we don't eat shit from anybody. And it's a. I can't believe you don't know this.

[Michael]

I can't remember.

[Co-host/Analyst]

This is one of the rousing moments in politics in completely popular, ridiculous movies.

[Michael]

Okay. Well, I'd totally forgotten it. And I had gone full circle back to the beginning of where we started our conversation with Hugh Grant being caught with Divine Brown, Divine Brown being a prostitute.

[Co-host/Analyst]

But you're going to revive it. And as will Stephen Chung.

[Michael]

Me and Stevie, we've got a lot

[Co-host/Analyst]

in common if Andy Burnham becomes the Hugh Grant of the Trump administration. But I think it's also, I mean, he should do that. I mean, I think that Keir Starmer was served very badly by that decision to bend over for Donald Trump.

[Michael]

Well, he didn't bend over for him in that he decided. Decided not to help him in the bombing of Iran.

[Co-host/Analyst]

Well, you know, a day late, a

[Michael]

dollar short, very possibly. Well, the other person that Donald Trump may be paying attention to in England is the sort of very faint version of him in Nigel Farage, who started the Reform Party, broke off from the Tories is very right wing was found. He got voted in as an MP in Clacton in Essex, to the east of the uk, and was discovered actually by a Murdoch newspaper to have taken 5 million pounds, which in British terms is a big chunk of cash, sort of more significant in Britain than perhaps it would be here from a businessman there which he claimed once rumbled that it was for his security and that that's all it was for, and it wasn't for favors in any way. Anyway, long story short, as we've discussed before, he then decided to resign from his seat to address criticisms of him and to restand for the seat. No one else has stood against him, except in classic British diaries.

[Co-host/Analyst]

Well, just to be more slightly more precise about this, he resigned so that his. His constituency could support him in a public way and therefore he could say, I didn't do anything wrong. But the problem was then that nobody, there were no labor or Tories would run against him. So therefore. And that was obviously smart on their part. So he's left standing there looking like he can't prove anything. Ridiculous. Now this tin can is running against them.

[Michael]

Right, so Count Bin Face, in the tradition of British politics, there's always some. Usually there's some kind of insane comedian standing. And Count Bin Face stood in the Maker Field election, which is where Andy Burnham got his seat, on the premise of I'm going to create. His platform was, I'm going to create an affordable house to make fun of the fact that the first thing that all politicians say is I'm going to make affordable housing. Of course, they never managed to do it and he was like, I'm going to make an affordable house. But now Nigel Farage finds himself debating a man with a dustbin on his head, as you say, a tin can. It's very amusing. I thought it was weird that people didn't stand against him, actually, because they might well have stood a chance of beating him and getting elected.

[Co-host/Analyst]

Well, apparently they thought better of it.

[Michael]

Well, we will watch this, but it

[Co-host/Analyst]

is an interesting kind of moment in which it would seem that they have managed to highlight in a way that no one ever succeeded with Donald Trump, although God knows why, the foolishness of Nigel Farage.

[Michael]

But if he's back in his seat in Parliament, then he's won his point that people don't care enough.

[Co-host/Analyst]

I don't think he has. I think he's merely accomplished nothing there and is still the same guy who has all kinds of corruption circling around him, which he will have to continue to deal with. And he will not be able to reasonably say, my constituency voted for me and they said, support me. Well, they support you because there was nobody else. And it will probably be a very, very shallow vote.

[Michael]

Well, how much more satisfying had Labour stood against him and won the seat, and then they could have just fundamentally removed Nigel Farage from the stage altogether.

[Co-host/Analyst]

Well, the answer to that, of course, is that they recognized that they would not win the seat. I mean, Nigel Farage is very isolated, a very powerful figure and a very charismatic figure, and that does not change the fact that he's also a very corrupt figure. So we're not going to change the charisma factor, but by not running against him, we leave him with the corrupt factor.

[Michael]

Well, there are all sorts of rumors that he's ill, too. He certainly doesn't look. Look very well. But I heard yesterday that there were rumors around him that he wasn't in great health. So, anyway, we'll watch the space and of course, it would have been a disaster for Andy Burnham as the new Prime Minister if a Labor person had stood against him and lost. That wouldn't say much for Andy Burnham's new government, which has got huge support. 340 MPs, I think, wanted him to take over from Keir Starmer, who is now, I'm told, lobbying to be the next Secretary General of the un.

[Co-host/Analyst]

Ah. Okay.

[Michael]

Okay. So we'll be back on Thursday, where the world will have turned once more. Who knows if there'll be any oil or gas or any kind of energy getting out from either the Strait of Hormuz or being ferried along the Red Sea.

[Co-host/Analyst]

Wait, and what's the name of that straight there stamp? I think it's something like the Bob L. Mandula. The Bob L. Mandeb. The Bob L. Hold on. But we should learn it.

[Michael]

I know. We should learn the next one.

[Co-host/Analyst]

Yeah, I'll spell it out for you. B, A, B. Yeah. And then E, L, L. Yeah. Dash, M, A, N, D, E, B. So, Bob El Mandev. Hey, I was.

[Michael]

Yeah, that was pretty good. That was pretty good. Michael, I think it's okay to acknowledge we have producers.

[Co-host/Analyst]

Yeah, no, no, it's. It's a. A greater cast of characters.

[Michael]

A greater cast of characters. Ryan. Okay. Bab El Mandeb. Okay, so just. Goodbye. So, Michael, I'll see you on Thursday.

[Co-host/Analyst]

You certainly will.

[Michael]

Do you want to thank our team?

[Co-host/Analyst]

Thanks to our incredible team. The interjecting Ryan, Heather, Max, the intern, who I believe is no longer with us and no longer the intern. So we can read him out of this introduction. John, Neil, Rachel, and I think that's everybody.

[Michael]

So the good news is we have so many Beebeast Tier members now. There are too many names to read out. And we really appreciate your support.