Podcast Summary
Intelligence Squared: Are Lithium and Cobalt the New Oil? The Elements of Power with Nicholas Niarchos
Date: February 25, 2026
Host: Atusa Araxia Abrahamian
Guest: Nicholas Niarchos

Episode Overview

This episode of Intelligence Squared explores the global war for battery metals—especially lithium and cobalt—central to the green energy transition away from fossil fuels. Journalist and author Nicholas Niarchos joins host Atusa Araxia Abrahamian to discuss his new book, The Elements of Power, which investigates the urgent, complex, and often troubling supply chains that fuel electrification, with a special focus on human rights, environmental impacts, and echoes of colonialism in mineral-rich nations like the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and beyond.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Write About Batteries? The Origins of the Investigation

• Personal Motivation: Nicholas Niarchos recounts how reporting on refugee crises led him to encounter Congolese refugees who, despite belonging to one of the world's resource-rich countries, were among the poorest people. This stark contradiction drove him to explore "the root causes" linked to extractive industries and the global demand for battery metals.
  • Quote: “We come from these amazing countries, but they've been completely, completely destroyed... It's one of the richest countries in the world, but we're some of the poorest people in the world.” — Niarchos (03:29)
• The ongoing exploitation and the role of figures like Dan Gertler, a mining fixer sanctioned yet still receiving royalties from global corporations, further drew Niarchos into the story.
  • “These pits had been dug in people’s backyards… at night people would complain and say their children fell into these pits. ... The idea that the Green Revolution was based on this premise… just kind of got my goat, I guess.” (05:25)

2. Limits of “Clean” Supply Chains and Accountability Initiatives

• NGOs and companies have made attempts to “clean up” supply chains, but Niarchos argues these efforts often lack consistency and depth, with tainted operators repeatedly reappearing.
  • Quote: “They lack kind of consistency. ... That doesn’t really cut the mustard.” — Niarchos (06:31)
• Opacity is built into global supply chains, making it extraordinarily difficult to trace the origin and ethical status of the minerals found in the world’s batteries.

3. Battery Metals Supply Chain: From Congo to Your Device

• ~70% of the world’s cobalt comes from the DRC.
• The supply chain is a complex journey:
  1. Artisanal, often exploitative mining in DRC (sometimes involving children and pregnant women)
  2. Partial refining in DRC
  3. Shipping hydroxide to China for further processing
  4. Battery cell manufacture by firms like CATL, BYD, etc.
  5. Assembly into consumer electronics or vehicles for companies like Tesla and Apple
  • Quote: “It is refined in China at these huge battery metal refining plants... those are the companies that sort of send them to Tesla and Apple and to all the device creators.” — Niarchos (08:19)
• The supply chain is deliberately opaque.

4. Chemistry and Environmental Realities of Lithium-ion Batteries

• Behind the “green” label, these supply chains remain deeply polluting and unethical.
• While batteries could enable cleaner energy, their current production depends on “very dirty” minerals.
  • Quote: "The green transition is built on very shaky fundaments and ... as it stands ... rely on supply chains in which there are these deep human rights abuses and corruption issues." — Niarchos (10:57)
• Example: Although some mines (e.g., Glencore) are now better regulated, most are not.

5. Colonial Foundations of Extraction Industries

• DRC, Indonesia, Western Sahara— all sites of brutal colonial or neo-colonial extraction (Belgian, Dutch, Spanish empires).
  • Quote: “These places were used for... resources that they had... Congo was first targeted for ivory..., then gold, rubber, copper... uranium, cobalt—a whole periodic table of different elements.” — Niarchos (13:48)
• History “rhymes”: While Chinese investment is less overtly violent than classic colonialism, it echoes mercantilist patterns by extracting resources with minimal local benefit.
  • “...it's certainly very mercantile and it certainly echoes periods of mercantilist colonialism...” (18:16)

6. Case Study: Nickel and China’s Role in Indonesia

• Example: Sulawesi, Indonesia—site of massive nickel extraction for EV batteries.
• Chinese-backed company towns operate with little regulation, use coal for refining, and devastate local environments.
  • Quote: “The mine is destroying the local environment… it’s this sort of monster eating into the jungle.” — Niarchos (15:38)

7. Geopolitics: U.S. vs. China, Corruption, and Local Disempowerment

• U.S. policies under Trump, focusing on securing critical minerals, overlook realities on the ground—propping up questionable regimes and ignoring local populations.
  • “Trump is basically embarrassing, emboldening the corrupt… expediency… you begin to ignore the basic facts of what’s happening on the ground.” — Niarchos (19:59)
• Mineral deals are often cloaked as peace or development initiatives but primarily enrich local elites and foreign powers.

8. Human Stories: Artisanal Miners on the Margins

• Hundreds of interviews, including with Odilongka Drumba Kilanga, an artisanal miner who tries—and fails—to escape mining because alternative livelihoods are nonexistent.
  • “There’s absolutely nothing else for him to do… The Southern DRC only has one industry and that is mining.” — Niarchos (23:24)
• Artisanal mining remains perilous, labor-intensive, and unregulated, with limited upward mobility.

9. Reporting on the Ground: Detentions and Obstacles

• Niarchos describes challenges reporting in DRC, including repeated detention, bureaucratic obstacles, lack of public records, reliance on rumor, and risk of violence (25:53–32:17).
• The dangers for local journalists in DRC and Western Sahara are much greater: many are beaten, tortured, or disappeared.

10. Wider Lens: Other Minerals and No Perfect Solutions

• The “clean” alternatives, such as LFP (lithium iron phosphate) batteries relying on phosphate from Western Sahara, pose their own problems of extraction, trade disputes, and injustice.
  • Quote: “There’s no free lunch. … Even the cleanest technologies have implications.” — Niarchos (34:05)

11. Is the Green Transition Still Worth It?

• Despite all, Niarchos insists that decarbonization is essential. The solution is not to abandon electrification, but to radically reform supply chains and include the needs and rights of local populations.
  • Quote: “I think it’s totally worth it to pursue the green transition... But let’s do it intelligently. … not just how do we make our cities more smoke free and… chuck tons of smoke into the air above an Indonesian island.” — Niarchos (36:15)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On modern colonialism:
  “The Chinese are not coming to the DRC and chopping off people’s hands... but at the same time… it certainly echoes periods of mercantilist colonialism.” (18:16)
• On the reality of artisanal mining:
  “People come from all over DRC to try and seek their fortune. … Unfortunately very few people can make work. People get sucked into it and then they leave basically as poor as they entered.” (24:16)
• On the hidden costs of clean technologies:
  “There is no technology that sort of drops from the sky and you’re like, we have this magic power source and we can power our devices and never have to think about mining ever again.” (34:05)
• On climate and justice:
  “We do need to do things about a warming world. But let’s do it intelligently. Let’s do it with an idea of the whole supply chain.” (36:15)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:54] – Niarchos explains his motivation for the book, rooted in DRC’s resource curse.
• [06:31] – Why accountability initiatives and supply chain cleanup efforts so often fail.
• [07:57] – The journey of cobalt from Congo to consumer products.
• [10:57] – The environmental and ethical reality of the battery supply chain.
• [13:48] – The colonial history underlying mining industries.
• [15:38] – Reporting from Sulawesi, Indonesia’s nickel boom.
• [18:16] – Chinese involvement: similarities and differences to classic colonialism.
• [19:59] – U.S. geoeconomics and corruption in the critical minerals race.
• [22:45] – The individual human cost: Odilongka Drumba Kilanga’s story.
• [25:53] – Difficulties and dangers of reporting in mining regions.
• [34:05] – The limits of even the “cleanest” battery technologies.
• [36:15] – Is the green transition still worth it?

Conclusion

This incisive conversation exposes the foundational paradox at the heart of the green transition: “clean” technology depends on dirty extraction, often perpetuating cycles of exploitation, environmental harm, and neocolonial relationships. Nicholas Niarchos makes a forceful case for radical transparency, ethical reform, and global responsibility—insisting that decarbonization remains urgent, but not at the ongoing expense of the world’s most vulnerable people or places.

Recommended: Read The Elements of Power for an unflinching look at the true cost of electrification.