Intelligence Squared Podcast

"How Tech Platforms Threaten Our Future" (Part Two)

Guest: Tim Wu (Former White House Advisor, Law Professor, Author of "The Age of Extraction")
Date: January 2, 2026
Location: Conway Hall, London
Host: Intelligence Squared

Episode Overview

This episode features Part Two of a live Intelligence Squared event with acclaimed scholar and former White House advisor Tim Wu. The discussion explores the rise of “extractive” technology platforms, how their business models are spreading into other sectors of the economy, and the social and political consequences of unchecked monopoly power. Wu responds to questions from both the host and the audience, offering historical context, vivid examples, and proposals for reform. The conversation examines everything from housing and pharmaceuticals to credit card fees and the global competition around artificial intelligence, all with Wu’s trademark mixture of candor and urgency.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Age of Extraction" Business Model

(03:13-07:35)

• Wu describes a shift in Western economies toward business models designed for "extraction"—taking disproportionate value from those with less power, whether as customers, tenants, or users.
• He distinguishes "extraction" from ordinary profit-taking: extraction involves "the ability to extract much more value...relative to the price of what you're providing."
• Example: The U.S. pharmaceutical industry sets the “extraction point” for life-saving drugs at what people can barely pay ("about $100,000 a year," 04:18).
• Extraction models are no longer limited to Silicon Valley. Wu details how in post-2008 America, corporate landlords systematically raised rents and tacked on fees, thereby “juicing the hog” (a phrase from a housing CEO, not a tech firm).

Quote:
"Extraction refers to the ability to extract much more value, whether money or ... attention, relative to the price of what you're providing."
—Tim Wu, (05:42)

2. Platformization Beyond Big Tech

(02:39-07:35)

• The host and Wu discuss how the extractive platform logic is spreading into "housing, healthcare, transport...It's not just online marketplaces."
• Corporatized landlords (e.g., Invitation Homes) use scale and data to maximize fees and constant rent hikes, affecting ordinary people.

Quote:
"The fees seem like a small thing, but they're a big thing when they get aggregated. So many business models have turned to ... juice the hog extract maximally. And I think it's, as you might suggest, not the greatest thing to have ever happened to civilization."
—Tim Wu, (07:23)

3. The Hidden Tax of Payment Monopolies

(07:35-09:05)

• Discussion of credit card networks (Visa, Mastercard, Amex) and their thinly-regulated dominance. Wu calls this a "private tax extracted by US banks on all commerce in Europe and the UK."
• Other nations (Brazil, India, Kenya) are now ahead of the West in payment innovation.
• Wu calls out Europe and the UK for surrendering digital sovereignty:
  "Europeans, including the United Kingdom, for the last 20 years, have just kind of said, have all our markets, they're yours." (26:57)

4. The Social and Political Consequences: "The Real Road to Serfdom"

(10:21-14:59)

• Wu outlines a five-step progression:
  1. Toleration of monopoly
  2. Widespread extraction
  3. Mass resentment (a group-level feeling of powerlessness)
  4. Political dysfunction/failure
  5. The rise of an authoritarian or strongman figure
• He draws historical parallels: Communist revolutions, fascist upsurges, and current populist movements all followed periods of mass extraction without remedies.

Quote:
"Democracy has to prove itself or face its own replacement. And that's where I think we are today. Sorry to be so upbeat about it."
—Tim Wu, (13:38)

5. Can Terrible Outcomes Self-Correct?

(14:17-18:53)

• The host wonders if extractive systems self-correct as their quality falls. Wu argues that “bad situations can last a very long time”—citing monopolies in telecom or state industries lasting for generations.
• The resilience of middle classes and representative government is an exception, not the rule, in history.
• Wu emphasizes the urgency of reform: “This is a really key moment ... These are our public spaces. This is everything now.”

6. The Role of Antitrust and Economic "Discipline"

(18:53-22:48)

• Wu defends antitrust as constitutional—it disciplines power, just like parliaments discipline kings.
• Antitrust is about “forcing companies to compete or banning the most egregious ways of preventing challenges.”
• Example: Google’s purchase of Waze—a merger that eliminated the only real competitor, a case of regulatory failure.

Quote:
"A monopoly is a form of private power, unchecked private power. ... It's an almost constitutional level of discipline."
—Tim Wu, (20:02)

7. Why Europe Underuses Its Power

(24:06–28:48)

• Wu pushes back against "middle power" fatalism, arguing that the EU and UK combined are the world’s largest market and can shape tech regulation.
• He compares platforms to essential utilities (like electric grids), which should be regulated to serve the public rather than acting as "main characters."
• He criticizes tech leaders like Marc Andreessen (who frames interfering with AI as criminal):
  "To interfere with the progress of AI ... you are, in a way, a form of murderer. Which struck me as going a little bit too far."
  —Tim Wu, (26:41)

Key Audience Q&A and Wu's Responses

Libertarian Ideology and AI Tech Policy

(29:32-31:40)

• Question: How to restrict Silicon Valley’s libertarian/accelerationist influence, especially AI’s rapid rollout?
• Wu: The “race with China” logic is partly blackmail. Domestic industry needs competition (antimonopoly) to stay innovative.

Quote:
"If we're going to challenge China, need to train. And the way you train is they are exposed to competition."
—Tim Wu, (34:17)

AI, Search Monopolies, and Publisher Exploitation

• Question: Are AI-driven search results an exploitative theft of content ("bundling and exploitation")?
• Wu: The stakes of ongoing legal cases (e.g. Google) are high—prevent Google from “swallowing” AI and cementing dominance. Regulators must keep big players in competition.

Will AI Platforms Be Investigated for Monopoly Power?

• Question: Will AI platforms eventually face the same scrutiny as Google/Meta?
• Wu: That’s urgent: “If I were back in antitrust, I’d make sure [AI and incumbents] remain a fight." We should push AI to empower individuals ("like the plow") rather than reinforce centralization or job loss ("like the cotton gin," 37:00).

Quote:
"We need to make sure our technologies always remain our tools, like a hammer or a saw, and not let them somehow become our masters."
—Tim Wu, (38:26)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On corporate landlords:
  "For the privilege of having your own cat ... I wish I had the number, it was $1,600 a year, I think." —Tim Wu, (06:54)

• On Europe's digital sovereignty:
  "Europeans are basically paying a giant tax to American monopoly... how did you let that happen?" —Tim Wu, (08:24)

• On political discontent:
  "Mass resentment comes from a sense that no matter what you do, you're going to lose." —Tim Wu, (11:25)

• On talking about economic pain without hate:
  "Anyone who can talk to economic pain without resorting to hate, that's who I'm inspired by ... delivering hope. That is who we need in our times." —Tim Wu, (42:11)

Final Reflections & Hope for Change

(39:13–41:32)

• Wu points to politicians who can articulate modern economic unfairness as a source of hope.
• He praises Mondami’s New York campaign and Lina Khan’s work in the U.S. as signs of a budding antimonopoly movement seeking “a return to the dream of the postwar era ... broad, lasting prosperity, a wealthy middle class.”

Key Timestamps

• 01:33: Show introduction
• 03:13: Wu explains extractive business models spreading to housing/pharma
• 07:35: Host/Wu discuss private “taxes” of card fees and payment monopolies
• 10:21: The five stages: monopoly to authoritarianism
• 14:59: Can broken systems last? Middle class as historical anomaly
• 18:53: Why antitrust/anti-monopoly reform is vital
• 20:34: Example of failed enforcement—Google buying Waze
• 26:22: Wu criticizes tech leaders' rhetoric about AI’s sanctity
• 29:13: Audience Q&A on AI, monopoly, competition policy
• 38:26: Wu: Keep AI as tool, not master
• 42:11: Closing: Appeal for hopeful, non-hateful political leadership

Tone and Language

Wu combines clear-eyed, sometimes dark appraisals ("Sorry to be so upbeat about it" at 13:38) with warmth, dry humor, and hope. The host keeps the pace lively and pushes for specifics, and audience questions are deeply engaged.

Conclusion

Tim Wu delivers a wide-ranging yet accessible analysis of how digital platforms’ extractive logic is shaping not just tech, but our entire economic and political structure. He challenges listeners to demand discipline for powerful platforms, embrace robust antitrust enforcement, and resist narratives of inevitability or helplessness—whether in Europe, the US, or globally. Wu closes by drawing hope from leaders who can translate economic pain into hope, not division.