Intelligence Squared: “How To Lose Your Country,” with Ece Temelkuran (Part One)

Date: November 14, 2025
Host: Coco Khan
Guest: Ece Temelkuran
Producer: Mia Sorrenti
Location: The Kiln Theatre, London

Episode Overview

In this thought-provoking live conversation, Turkish writer, journalist, and political thinker Ece Temelkuran discusses her seminal book How to Lose a Country, its continued relevance, and the global rise of authoritarianism and populism. In dialogue with Coco Khan, Temelkuran shares personal experiences of exile, draws sharp parallels between Turkey and Western democracies, and challenges conventional wisdom about democracy, hope, and resistance.

Temelkuran argues that the decline toward authoritarianism is not confined to any one nation; rather, democracies worldwide are vulnerable, and understanding this process is crucial for those who wish to resist. She explores the emotional and psychological dynamics of “losing a country,” the systemic failures enabling populism, and the need to rethink what democracy actually means in the 21st century.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ece Temelkuran on Exile and Personal Journey

• Reflections on "Exile":

  • Temelkuran resists the "exile" label—used frequently by others—emphasizing that her story isn't more interesting or tragic than that of any refugee (07:27).
  • She explains leaving Turkey in 2016 due to threats, highlighting the normalization of self-exile among critical voices under authoritarian regimes (07:27–09:15).

• Living as an Outsider:

  • Writing in English for the first time in Zagreb, Temelkuran notes the strangeness of being an outsider to her own nation and the universality of the feeling: “There are so many people now losing their homes for different reasons. It is almost embarrassing to talk about the exile.” (08:52)

2. How Does Fascism Take Root?

• The Early Warnings:

  • Temelkuran asserts that journalists and truth-tellers—especially women—are targeted first: “They are the easiest target and they are the most powerful people who can actually fight against fascism. That’s why they’re going first.” (10:37)

• Chilling Recognition of Political Shifts:

  • Host Coco Khan shares a personal story of witnessing “ordinary” British people normalizing Trump on a right-wing talk show, echoing the slow normalization process described in Temelkuran’s book (12:21–14:21).
  • Temelkuran describes her own “chills” beginning in 2002, seeing the rise of Erdoğan: “This is not a party, this is something else. This is a movement… manufacturing victimhood to consolidate the crowd.” (14:21)

• Normalization and Denial:

  • Populist leaders rapidly become normalized. Temelkuran distinguishes between those quick to accept ("fall in line") and those who are “paranoid” early on—often proven correct: “That normalization begins quite early… It makes people fall in the line before they are being forced to. Nobody forces this guy to say Trump is normal, but he says it because there is a sense of power.” (16:56)

3. Naming the Threat: Fascism or Populism?

• Reluctance to Call It “Fascism”:
  • Temelkuran humorously observes that established, especially German, intellectuals resist using “fascism” due to historical and psychological implications: “Once you call it, you have to do something about it. So don’t ask me why I’m doing this. I have to ask you why you are not calling it fascism.” (19:44–20:18)
  • She challenges the tendency to water down terms: “…when you say right wing populism, oh, it’s like, we’re going to fix things here and there. You know, Trump will die or whatever. Erdogan cannot live forever…” (20:30)

4. Systemic Failure of Democracy

• The Myth of a Functional Democracy:

  • Temelkuran criticizes superficial faith in democracy without social justice: “If you cannot change one single fact, which is there is no social justice in this system and we’re bringing social justice, you cannot change anything. You’ll just have better Trumps, really.” (26:36)

• No Political Solution in the Current System:

  • She argues the crisis is systemic, not just about individual leaders: “This is a systemic failure… if democracy doesn’t put social justice at the center, it doesn’t work. It becomes a theatrics of itself and nobody takes it seriously.” (24:15)

• Historical Context:

  • She traces today’s predicament to the Reagan-Thatcher era, the rise of neoliberalism, and the abandonment of equality as a central democratic value (24:49–25:57).

5. Beyond Hope: Faith and Moral Transformation

• Faith Over Hope:

  • Temelkuran reframes the discussion from hope to faith: “…I don’t believe in the word hope because it’s too fragile for our times. We need to refresh our faith in ourselves, in each other, and in politics. What we lost is faith.” (05:32)

• The Limits of Democratic Rhetoric:

  • Both speakers reflect on how Western democracies mythologize their histories, often ignoring their own exclusions and flaws: “I find it crazy when people in America talk about being a great democracy. I’m like, guys, you didn’t give black people the vote for a very long…” (29:00)

• What Now? Love, Dignity, and Connection

  • Temelkuran calls for a return to fundamental human values—dignity, solidarity, and “radical love”—as the core of true democratic renewal: “Maybe we should be talking about moral transformation, because all this frenzy, all this political mess, creates a confusion… you begin forgetting what you stand for.” (31:00)
  • She argues that the coming crises “will give us the meaning that we can sacrifice something for. We will need to make some sacrifices, but we will have better friends. We will have amazing time. We are going to find each other. We are going to be in solidarity and it’s not going to be... because it’s chic. We’re going to be in solidarity because our lives will depend on it.” (34:44)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ece Temelkuran on hope and faith

  “I don’t believe in the word hope because it’s too fragile for our times. What we lost is not hope… What we lost is faith, actually.”
  (05:32, Temelkuran)

• On being exiled:

  “I hate the word. I never use the word myself, but it’s always used for me… It gives you a certain aristocratic flare among the other people who lost their homes, as if my story is more interesting than any other refugee.”
  (07:27, Temelkuran)

• On journalists as targets:

  “All of them, the ones who are trying to tell the truth and be on the right side of the history. Yes, they are, because they are the easiest target and... the most powerful people who can actually fight against fascism. That’s why they’re going first.”
  (10:37, Temelkuran)

• On the normalization of authoritarianism:

  “That normalization begins quite early. It makes people fall in the line before they are being forced to... there is a sense of power. So this is becoming powerful. So I have to side with it. It’s an emotional thing and... mostly it’s about politics of emotions.”
  (16:56, Temelkuran)

• On not calling it fascism:

  “You’re not calling it fascism because once you call it, you have to do something about it... There is that as well. Saying ‘right-wing populism’ gives you the sinister chance of saying, ‘Oh, there’s, of course, the left-wing populism as well.’ These are narrative games.”
  (20:18–20:54, Temelkuran)

• On the crisis of democracy:

  “This is a systemic failure and it should be treated like that. And that systemic failure goes back to decades ago, in 1970s… when Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher [said], ‘there is no alternative.’”
  (24:15, Temelkuran)

• On democracy and equality:

  “The main contract of democracy says everybody is equal… What does neoliberalism say? There’s no equality. Winner survives... There’s a main contradiction.”
  (30:19, Temelkuran)

• On moving forward:

  “Maybe we should be talking about moral transformation… What are those main values like human dignity? We want to believe in ourselves, in humankind, in politics. We want people to choose dignity over pride… friendship… radical love in politics.”
  (31:00, Temelkuran)

• On hard times as an opportunity:

  “Crises are good. You know… those wars is the biggest crisis. Then you have the chance to be a hero. This life doesn’t give us the meaning that we can sacrifice something for. We forgot that word. That’s why I say neoliberal morality kind of creeped in all of us. We will need to make some sacrifices, but we will have better friends. We will have amazing time. We are going to find each other...”
  (34:44, Temelkuran)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:12: Introduction to the episode and guest
• 04:50: Temelkuran on rejecting the word "hope" in favor of "faith"
• 07:27: Temelkuran’s description of self-exile and the problem with the label
• 10:37: On journalists and dissidents as first targets under authoritarianism
• 12:21–14:21: Khan’s personal media experience and question about recognizing the tipping point
• 14:21: Temelkuran on “chills,” early signs, and movement-building
• 16:56: On normalization, the creation of "the movement," and politics of emotion
• 19:27: Why editors and institutions fear the “fascism” label
• 20:18–20:54: On the politics of language and narrative games
• 24:15: The systemic failures of Western democracy and the triumph of neoliberalism
• 26:36: Why people want “their bad guy,” and the rejection of superficial democracy
• 31:00: Reframing the struggle as moral transformation and collective action
• 34:44: Embracing crisis as a moment for solidarity and the rediscovery of meaning

Tone and Atmosphere

The episode is intellectually rigorous but also informal, self-aware, and occasionally humorous—Temelkuran is quick to joke about being “paranoid,” and both speakers blend personal stories with sharp political insight. The audience is invited to reflect on shared anxieties about the state of the world but also challenged to act and rebuild trust, not just “hope,” in one another.

Conclusion

“How To Lose Your Country” part one sets the stage for a deeper investigation of how democracies falter and what citizens—globally—can do in response. Temelkuran’s perspective, shaped by both personal exile and broader historical awareness, urges listeners to be vigilant about incremental normalization, to name fascism honestly, and to embrace moral solidarity as the antidote to cynicism and despair.

Up Next: Part two will explore more practical strategies for solidarity, the politics of radical love, and how individuals and societies might reclaim democratic life from the brink.