Intelligence Squared Podcast

Episode: Julia Ioffe and Clarissa Ward on Putin, Russia and the Women Fighting For A Better Future (Part Two)
Date: January 12, 2026

Overview

In the second part of a live Intelligence Squared event, award-winning journalist Julia Ioffe sits down with CNN Chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward to discuss the evolving roles of Russian women throughout history, from the Bolshevik Revolution to the modern era. Drawing on Ioffe’s recent book exploring female experiences in Russia, they examine the country’s historical pendulum between emancipation and traditionalism, the personal stories of women close to power, and the struggles faced by Russian women today—including resistance, resilience, and the limits of true liberation under Putin’s regime.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Backlash Against "Enforced Emancipation" and the Rise of Traditionalism

[03:07 – 04:23]

• The USSR’s push for women’s emancipation (adding a “second shift” without support) led to widespread exhaustion and resentment among Soviet women.
• The 1980s marked a pronounced return to traditional values, spurred by economic hardship, food shortages, and social conservatism.
• Contrasts between Soviet and Western models of women’s liberation began to emerge as Russians glimpsed Western lifestyles.

Quote:

“[Society asked] why don’t both the man and the woman do equal amounts of housework or child rearing? That position, I think, got like 1% in their polls. It was like, just let the woman stop working and pay the man more.”
—Julia Ioffe [04:23]

2. Economic Collapse, Gender Roles, and Social Fallout After the Soviet Union

[07:52 – 11:41]

• The Soviet collapse caused mass unemployment, with factories and bureaucracies shuttering. Women did whatever work was needed to survive while men, faced with social stigma and the “inflexibility” of male status, often withdrew, leading to increased alcoholism and domestic abuse.
• A generation of “single-sex families” arose—children raised mainly by mothers and grandmothers.

Julia’s Observation:

“Russian women don’t want to be trad wives. They want to be trophy wives. That’s the dream. They don’t want to be in the kitchen having seven kids.”
—Julia Ioffe [11:28]

3. The Modern Opposition: Profiles in Courage

[11:41 – 16:23]

• Alexei Navalny’s widow Yulia Navalnaya is discussed as a symbol of resilience and quiet strength, having emerged publicly only after her husband’s assassination attempt.
• Despite outward traditionalism, Yulia became a national figure due to her composure and determination, but she “never wanted to be the politician.”

Memorable Moment:

“Suddenly, a lot of Russians saw her for the first time... saw how strong she was, how steely she was, how determined she was and how smart she was.”
—Julia Ioffe [12:45]

• A frank assessment of the differences between visible female opposition (like Pussy Riot’s Nadia) and more “traditional” figures like Yulia.

4. Choices in Storytelling: Who Represents Modern Russia?

[16:23 – 21:05]

• On choosing subjects for her book:
  • The fates of first ladies and women close to power often reflected the fate of the nation itself.
  • High-profile figures like Ksenia Sobchak (“Russia’s Paris Hilton turned pseudo-opposition figure”) are rejected as subjects due to their cynicism and lack of empathy.

Notable Quote:

“I interviewed her and I was like, God, you fucking suck... I can’t write about [her]. I don’t want to spend that much time with her.”
—Julia Ioffe (on Ksenia Sobchak) [18:48]

• Instead, Ioffe favored women who embodied significant societal changes, such as Margarita Gracheva (a survivor of domestic violence who became a symbol after her husband mutilated her hands) and Svetlana Alliluyeva (Stalin’s daughter).

5. The Erasure and Shaming of Women Combat Veterans

[24:52 – 26:52]

• On the treatment of women veterans post-WWII:
  • Over 800,000 women fought in active combat for the USSR, only to return to a society that swiftly erased their contributions, reinstated domestic roles, and even sexualized or shamed female combatants.
  • Stalin’s traditionalism led to the reintroduction of home economics and an engineered “baby boom.”

Historical Insight:

“Women came home to a country that was denuded of men... and were being told to have more babies, but there’s no men around. The competition becomes really, really fierce.”
—Julia Ioffe [27:00]

6. Contemporary Parallels: Repeating Patriarchal Patterns

[28:39 – 31:35]

• Ioffe draws parallels between Soviet-era “crises of masculinity” and present-day Western backlashes against feminism (“We’ve done enough for women, what about the men?”).
• She argues that deeply patriarchal societies—East and West—resist sharing real power or resources with women, allowing emancipation “but not too much.”

Striking Quote:

“I have not seen that these systems are actually interested in our emancipation and in our equal participation, truly equal participation. Because the second we get close to equality, there’s a crisis of masculinity.”
—Julia Ioffe [31:20]

7. Language, Ideology, and Imported Feminism

[31:39 – 33:47]

• Discussion about linguistic differences when talking about feminism in Russian vs. English.
• Ioffe notes that current Russian feminist discourse often relies on directly imported English words and ideas (“toxic masculinity”), which feel artificial.
• The Bolshevik-era language of class and social struggle now feels outdated to younger Russians.

Quote:

“It was like, oh, these are faddish Western ideas... just basically pushed through Google Translate. It sounded like an invasive species.”
—Julia Ioffe [33:35]

8. The Problem of Top-Down Emancipation

[34:31 – 38:05]

• An audience member asks if history would have been different with a less patriarchal leader than Stalin. Julia cautions against counterfactuals, but notes Lenin was an outlier and that much of Soviet emancipation was imposed from the top, lacking grassroots support.
• She draws a comparison to modern liberal movements that overlook local attitudes and priorities, warning that change without a deep social foundation rarely lasts.

Memorable Quotes & Key Timestamps

• “That was all Bolshevik speak, and that’s equally outdated and would sound foreign to these young people.” — Julia Ioffe [33:57]
• “You don’t get a generational political talent twice in one family.” — Julia Ioffe on Navalnys [14:50]
• “The bet was on the traditional nuclear patriarchal family. And women who had been fighting guns in hand didn’t fit neatly into that.” — Julia Ioffe [26:51]
• “The assumption is that the men still have to be on top. The men still have to have the most of the resources, most of the control, most of the political power... The women can have a little bit, but not 51% or more.” — Julia Ioffe [30:45]

Significant Audience Q&A Segments

• Why did WWII women veterans face taboo/shame?
  [24:52 – 28:39] Ioffe details social and institutional shaming, a state-driven push for traditionalism, and engineered policies to rebuild the male population.
• Are we repeating patriarchal cycles in the West today?
  [28:39 – 31:35] Ioffe draws striking parallels, noting that patriarchal systems always pull back as women near real equality.
• Language and the perception of feminism in Russia
  [31:39 – 33:47] The complex interplay between borrowed West-centric feminist language and Russia’s own history.
• Would Russian gender roles be different under a leader other than Stalin?
  [34:31 – 38:05] A nuanced answer about the limits of top-down change and the need for widespread, grassroots cultural shifts.

Closing Thoughts

Julia Ioffe’s conversation with Clarissa Ward offers a sweeping but deeply personal meditation on Russian history through the lens of its women—from the enforced duality and later abandonment of Soviet “emancipation” to the tenacity and ambivalence of modern opposition figures. Ioffe’s candor and wit highlight the cultural, linguistic, and historical barriers that complicate ideas of progress for women in Russia and beyond. The episode is essential listening for anyone interested in gender, authoritarianism, and the stubborn persistence of patriarchy—even as history, seemingly, lurches forward.

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