Podcast Summary: Intelligence Squared – The 12 Books of Christmas | Adam Grant on The Science of Achieving Greatness

Date: December 25, 2024
Host: Tim Harford (for Intelligence Squared)
Guest: Adam Grant (Psychologist, Author of "Hidden Potential")

Episode Overview

This special episode from the “12 Books of Christmas” series features a lively conversation between economist and writer Tim Harford and renowned organizational psychologist Adam Grant. The discussion centers on Grant’s latest book, Hidden Potential: The Science of Achieving Greater Things, exploring the real drivers of success, the underestimated value of "soft" skills, why character counts, and how we can all move from potential to achievement. The episode blends personal stories, research insights, and practical takeaways, maintaining Grant’s signature balance of wit and wisdom.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Story: Character Skills and the Raging Rooks (05:28–10:06)

• Chess as an Allegory:
  Grant opens the book with the story of the Raging Rooks, a chess team from a disadvantaged background who overcome the odds, attributing their improbable success not just to talent, but to character skills taught by their coach Maurice Ashley.
• The Impact of Character:
  Research shows experienced kindergarten teachers set children up for life—not by teaching reading and math, but by instilling discipline, proactivity, and pro-social behavior (07:58).

  “If you can get good at teaching and learning the skills of character at any stage of life, you can actually achieve more than you thought was possible and more than other people expected of you.” – Adam Grant (09:56)

2. Soft Skills: Mislabeling Matters (10:06–11:07)

• Origin of 'Soft Skills':
  The term originated with the US Army to describe non-technical skills—leadership, teamwork—as “soft” due to the absence of literal metal. This mislabeling undermined their perceived value for decades.

3. Practical Classroom Interventions & Pro-Social Learning (11:07–15:42)

• The "Tutor Effect":
  Grant shares how letting students choose a peer whose answer counted for their own grade led to unexpected, improved learning. The key: students collaborated, studied together, taught each other, and collectively raised their performance (12:16–14:07).
• Birth Order and Teaching:
  Firstborns slightly outperform in IQ tests due to teaching younger siblings—the act of teaching cements knowledge and understanding (14:14–15:42).

  “The more time you spend teaching your younger siblings, ...the more you have to explain it, which means you understand it better.” – Adam Grant (15:20)

4. The Science—and Struggle—of Getting Feedback (18:29–29:14)

• Differentiating Feedback from Advice:
  Grant recounts a painful early teaching experience with US Air Force generals, learning that critical feedback rarely helps, while soliciting specific advice sparks growth (19:08–23:56).
• Key Technique:
  Don’t ask for ‘feedback’; ask for advice. Advice focuses on the future and is more constructive.
  • Example: After every event, Grant asks, “What’s the one thing I can do better?” (25:41–26:19)
• Scoring System:
  He requests a 0–10 score before advice, to calibrate the seriousness of suggestions (28:06–28:49).

  “If somebody says 8, I know they really meant a 6 and they were being nice.” – Adam Grant (28:26)

5. Motivation, Deliberate Play, and Deliberate Practice (30:05–34:13)

• Deliberate Play vs. Practice:
  Fun and challenge coexist in growth. To make hard routines sustainable, pair the activity with rewards and self-competition, not just grit.
• Interleaving:
  Contradicting intuition, mixing different learning activities leads to deeper learning. Practicing one skill, then switching to another, encourages growth and prevents autopilot (33:18–34:13).

6. The Replication Crisis and Scientific Rigor (34:25–40:29)

• Skepticism and Science:
  Grant and Harford discuss psychology's replication crisis and broader challenges in scientific publishing, arguing that evolving standards are a natural part of science, and probabilistic understanding is better than gut instinct (35:37–40:01).

  “We don't even know if dental floss is useful... The empirical evidence is not conclusive. I still floss my teeth, but I don’t know that that’s good for me.” – Adam Grant (40:01)

7. Reflections on High Standards: Collaborating with Sheryl Sandberg (42:19–44:56)

• Relentless Revision:
  Working with Sandberg, Grant learned the value of revising writing dozens—often 100+—times, raising his own standards. This “after” period marks his later books.
• Growth through Collaboration:
  Sandberg’s demand that drafts "not see the light of day until there were at least 100 revisions" fundamentally changed his approach.

8. Overcoming the Curse of Knowledge & Becoming a Better Writer (45:36–48:43)

• Teaching to Learn:
  Even accomplished writers benefit from explaining complex topics to outsiders before writing, combating the ‘curse of knowledge’ (not being able to imagine what it’s like not to know something).
• Advice to Writers:
  “Stay with your amazing stories longer.” Grant encourages Harford—and all writers—not to rush through anecdotes and dwell in narrative.

9. Learning Languages & Embracing Discomfort (51:00–54:15)

• Polyglots' Secret:
  Extraordinary language learners weren’t born talented, but got comfortable making mistakes and amplifying discomfort—aiming to make hundreds of errors a day to learn faster (51:50–54:15).

  “The better you get at embracing that kind of discomfort, the faster you learn.” – Adam Grant (54:13)

10. Tension Between Discomfort and Play (54:55–57:50)

• Resolving the Contradiction:
  Growth requires a balance: enough discomfort to stimulate learning, but not so much it leads to burnout or boredom; fun sustains motivation over the long term (56:03–57:46).

  “There are different kinds of discomfort, and some are beneficial and some are not. What you do want, I think, is the more manageable discomfort of social fear… That's what we need to get over. But I don't want you to suffer constantly.” – Adam Grant (56:31)

11. Closing Thoughts and Notable Moments (57:52–58:55)

• Celebrating Curiosity and Open-Mindedness:
  Grant ends by highlighting the hope offered by communities interested in learning, debate, and compassion:

  “The intellectual curiosity and open mindedness and compassion and courage in this room gives me real hope for democracy.” – Adam Grant (58:56)

Selected Notable Quotes

• On Feedback vs. Advice:
  “When you ask people for feedback, they tell you what you did wrong or right yesterday... What I wanted were coaches, people who saw my hidden potential and were willing to help me develop it.” – Adam Grant (23:08)

• On Growth and Learning:
  “Most of us, when we're taught languages in school, we read them and we write them, and we don't speak them yet because we don't feel comfortable... But actually, the way to master it is to speak it.” – Adam Grant (52:35)

• On the Importance of Character:
  “No matter how good you are at chess, if you don't have those character skills, you fall apart... Maurice was an incredible teacher of character skills.” – Adam Grant (09:05)

Highlighted Timestamps

• 05:28 – The story of the Raging Rooks & character skills
• 10:06 – The “soft skills” misnomer origin
• 12:16 – Classroom experiment on peer learning
• 14:42 – The "tutor effect" and birth order
• 19:08 – Transforming feedback into practical advice
• 25:41 – The struggle for honest feedback as you get more senior
• 28:18 – The 0–10 score technique for feedback
• 30:05 – Motivation, play, and sustaining challenging goals
• 33:18 – Interleaving as a learning strategy
• 35:37 – Psychology's replication crisis and its lessons
• 42:19 – Collaboration and lessons from Sheryl Sandberg
• 45:36 – Overcoming the curse of knowledge as a writer
• 51:00 – Polyglots and the power of embracing discomfort
• 54:55 – Discomfort vs. play in the learning process
• 58:56 – Closing notes on hope, curiosity, democracy

Final Thoughts

This episode of Intelligence Squared captures the intersection between research, personal growth, and real-world impact, as Adam Grant demystifies the path to achieving greatness—not as the result of innate talent but by nurturing character, embracing discomfort, and maintaining the joy of play. Through candid anecdotes and actionable advice, listeners are reminded that potential is not fixed, but can be unlocked at any stage of life.