Podcast Summary: The Intelligence Squared Economic Outlook with Jeremy Hunt

Podcast: Intelligence Squared
Episode: The Intelligence Squared Economic Outlook with Jeremy Hunt
Date: December 12, 2025
Host: Johnny Diamond (BBC News Presenter)
Guest: Jeremy Hunt (Former Chancellor of the Exchequer, Foreign Secretary, and Health Secretary)

Episode Overview

This special live episode features Jeremy Hunt—a stalwart of recent British politics—discussing the economic future of the UK. Drawing on the experiences explored in his book Can We Be Great Again?, Hunt reflects on the nation’s global role, economic strengths and weaknesses, and the long-term reforms he believes are crucial to Britain’s renewal in an interconnected and turbulent world. The conversation touches on his abrupt appointment as Chancellor, the crisis moments of his tenure, the UK’s productivity puzzle, the challenges of public sector reform, the evolving welfare system, Britain's place post-Brexit, and the existential issues of growth, innovation, and the global economic order.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Defining "Greatness" for the UK

• Reclaiming the Narrative: Hunt challenges the idea that only populists can talk of national "greatness," instead proposing a definition centered on meaningful influence:

  “My definition of great is a country that can shape the world as well as be shaped by it.” — Jeremy Hunt (07:54)

• Global & Regional Influence: The UK continues to rank in the world’s top ten most influential countries, often top five, especially regarding global challenges such as climate, migration, and democracy.

The Chancellor's Crisis—Appointment and Aftermath

• Sudden Appointment: Hunt recounts the dramatic circumstances leading to his appointment as Chancellor during the Liz Truss administration ("I can't believe those idiot journalists...").

  “[Liz Truss] sat next to me in the House of Commons as I basically tore up the entire manifesto with which she had been elected. That must have been a very difficult thing for her to do. But it was also quite interesting for me to see how the British state works.” (15:59)

• Institutional Readiness: Notably impressed by Treasury officials and the British state's ability to solve acute crises, Hunt contrasts this with the difficulty of tackling slow-burn, structural issues.

Regrets and Priorities: Welfare Reform

• Biggest Regret: Hunt reflects that the failure to implement comprehensive welfare reform was his greatest missed opportunity.

  “We are now signing off about 5,000 people onto sickness benefit every day... At the same time as that, we’ve got an aging population... It is absolutely crazy.” (19:06)

• Pandemic Impact: Welfare rolls swelled since 2019, reversing previous progress.
• Action Plan: He urges greater investment in treatment for mental health and musculoskeletal problems and reinstating in-person assessments for benefits.

Technology and the UK as "The Next Silicon Valley"

• Tech Leadership: Hunt claims origin for the “next Silicon Valley” line, highlighting the third-largest tech ecosystem globally, more unicorns than France and Germany combined, and ‘unbeatable’ strengths in world-class universities and financial services.

  “After the US and China, we have the third largest tech ecosystem in the world... We have more unicorns than France and Germany put together.” (22:47)

• University Innovation: A new era of university-linked science parks and spinouts is driving innovation nationwide, especially in life sciences and creative industries.

The Productivity Puzzle & NHS Reform

• Public Sector Drag: The UK’s historic productivity lag is aggravated by inefficient public sector structures:

  “The NHS is the most wonderful healthcare system in the world and the most inefficient.” (27:32)

• Micromanagement Critique: National targets and centralized control stifle innovation and efficiency in the NHS. Hunt advocates a switch to the autonomy model used in state schools—with local accountability and budget responsibility.

Long-Termism, Treasury Control & Media Pressures

• Short Political Cycles: The system prioritizes managing media crises over driving long-term reform.
• Treasury Grip: Annual budget structures motivate departments to spend needlessly to avoid Treasury clawback, impeding strategic investment.

Post-Brexit Economic Model

• Against Rejoining the EU: Hunt does not support returning to the EU, citing newfound “nimbleness” as an opportunity for the UK in an unstable world.
• Changing Economic Model: Post-EU, the UK must become more like “Korea, Taiwan, Israel”—focusing on high-value global sectors—rather than its previous model as the “open door” to European markets.

  "Inside the EU we had a very straightforward model ... Outside the EU, we have to think much more like a Korea, a Taiwan, an Israel." (41:36)

Challenges of Delivery & Comparative Politics

• Barriers to Action: Accumulatively, judicial reviews, layers of accountability, and Whitehall processes bog down infrastructure and social policy delivery.
• Lesson from the US: Contrasting Trump’s controversial immigration clamp-down (and political success) with the UK’s less effective, rules-bound approach.

  “If we don’t want to have methods like the methods that Donald Trump is employing, then we have got to find ways to get things done more quickly.” (47:24)

International Relations: China, US, and More

• China: Hunt admits the UK has been naive and emphasizes balancing trade and strategic caution.

  "We have to be streetwise about the threat posed by China, but we also have to be prepared to look in the mirror and say, how can we show that we can get things done?" (55:05)

• US Relations: Trump, for all his unpredictability, counts as a “friend of Britain,” but is problematic for the reputation of democracy.

Devolution and Housing

• Planning Bottlenecks: UK local government should be restructured toward the French model, with directly elected mayors retaining local tax revenue to incentivize development.

  "We need directly elected mayors with full fiscal autonomy, and they need to keep all the business rates that they generate in their area." (57:12)

Immigration

• Social Contract at Risk: The open, welcoming approach is threatened by public skepticism and a perception of government impotence.
• ECHR Dilemma: Hunt argues that if the UK cannot reform the ECHR to restore border control credibility, it may have to consider leaving it.

Growth, GDP, and Sustainability

• GDP Limitations: Recognizes that GDP is an imperfect measure but is essential for tracking national progress.
• Clean vs. Cheap Energy: Calls for a balance—pursuing net zero but not at the expense of competitiveness, highlighting energy price advantages in France due to nuclear energy.

Wealth Taxes, Tax Reform, and Growth

• No to Wealth Tax: Maintains that wealth taxes don’t work (“They haven’t worked. ... wealth is more mobile in the UK than almost anywhere else,” 75:30).
• Flatter, Simpler Tax Code: Calls for a radical simplification of the tax system, less emphasis on taxing work, and a shift to consumption-based taxation. Major changes should be made early in a Parliament for maximal political cover.

Innovation and AI

• Innovation Core: Future prosperity hinges on nurturing innovation across sectors (“Being good at innovation is a core strength. We're ranked as the fifth most innovative country in the world.” 72:29).
• AI’s Ambiguity: AI could be “ten times bigger and ten times faster than the industrial revolution” (73:48), but its social impact is unknown, with possible severe disruption for graduates and established professions.

Restoring Public Sector Pride

• Public versus Private Sector: Highlights examples (e.g., the Passport Office) of public sector success, emphasizing lean, responsive management.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Optimism and Influence:

  “Nothing can be taken for granted. But I do think that we have fallen into a big trap of losing perspective when we absorb ourselves in our own problems ... The world is so dangerous right now. The worst thing we can do is actually underestimate our influence.” (09:00)

• On NHS Targets:

  “I should have scrapped all those national targets. They are awful.” (30:55)

• On Public Trust and Immigration:

  “It is essential...that people have confidence that the people they send to Westminster as their elected representatives are able to decide who comes into the country and who goes out.” (61:28)

• On Reforming Housing and Learning from France:

  “We should copy France ... In France, all the local authorities have a direct financial incentive to approve as many planning applications as they can.” (57:12)

• On Leaving Office and the Role of Family:

  “I didn’t want [my kids] to think it was a moment of shame for our family. So I got permission for them to miss school ... And as we did, this extraordinary discussion opened up on social media... This was the most British bit of all: how the dog was going to cope with moving to a new home. Nothing about the human beings.” (88:00)

Key Timestamps

• Theme & Opening: [03:57] – Introduction by producers
• Main Conversation Begins: [05:33]
• Defining National Greatness: [07:28–11:00]
• Becoming Chancellor – Crisis and Aftermath: [13:10–18:43]
• Welfare Reform – Issues & Regrets: [19:06–22:25]
• Tech Leadership & Higher Education Spinouts: [22:47–26:45]
• The Productivity Puzzle & NHS Reform: [26:53–33:13]
• On Political Cycles and Reform Inertia: [33:13–36:52]
• Welfare Debate, Sickness, and Mental Health: [36:52–41:28]
• Brexit & Economic Model Rethink: [41:28–44:12]
• (Audience Q&A and Deeper Dive into Topics): [46:51–90:04]
  • Devolution & Housing: [57:12]
  • Immigration & Social Contract: [60:43]
  • GDP, Growth & Clean Energy: [65:37–68:47]
  • Wealth Taxes & Tax Simplification: [75:30–84:36]
  • Future of AI & Innovation: [72:29–75:26]
  • Party Politics & Tory Recovery: [85:52–87:06]
• Closing Story and Results of Audience Poll: [88:00–90:04]

Tone and Style

Hunt is candid, self-effacing, and often humorous—willing to acknowledge his own mistakes and offer personal anecdotes (the ‘Labrador’ story, his family’s exit from Downing Street). He strives for optimism without denying the scale of the UK’s challenges and is consistently policy-focused rather than overtly partisan. The host, Johnny Diamond, maintains a balanced, incisive tone, steering conversation between probing questions and audience engagement.

Conclusion

Jeremy Hunt believes in Britain’s enduring capacity for leadership, provided it moves beyond pessimism and institutional inertia. Root-and-branch reform—especially of the public sector, housing, and welfare—and renewed confidence in sectors of innovation are, for Hunt, essential to economic renewal. Above all, he argues for the UK to recognize its current influence and responsibilities as it navigates historic moments of uncertainty and opportunity on the global stage.

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