Intelligence Squared Economic Outlook with Jeremy Hunt (Part Two)

Podcast: Intelligence Squared
Date: November 2, 2025
Guest: Jeremy Hunt (Former Chancellor of the Exchequer, Foreign Secretary, Health Secretary)
Moderator: Intelligence Squared host
Location: Live from Smith Square Hall, Westminster

Episode Overview

The second part of this economic outlook deep dive features Jeremy Hunt in conversation with an Intelligence Squared moderator and a live Westminster audience. The episode focuses on the UK’s economic challenges and opportunities post-Brexit, the necessity and ethics of welfare reform, the UK’s international positioning in a rapidly shifting global order, the frustrations of government bureaucracy, the housing crisis, and the crucial question of how a nation can continue to shape the world. Hunt brings a candid, at times self-critical tone, sharing insights from his time in government and his latest writings.

Welfare Reform: Challenges and Missed Opportunities

[03:03–07:00]

• Regret Over Inaction: Hunt expresses regret for not enacting meaningful welfare reforms as Chancellor, saying it's "very mission critical for the government" to address the welfare bill.
• Economic Stakes: Returning the working-age welfare bill to pre-pandemic levels would save £47 billion annually, according to Hunt, potentially avoiding any need for tax hikes—"Rachel Reeves wouldn't have to put up a single penny of tax if you did that."

  “We simply cannot afford to carry on on the basis that we are.” (Jeremy Hunt, 03:54)

• Focus on Opportunity, Not Just Savings: Effective welfare reform should "transform opportunities for the individuals involved," not simply be about cutting costs.
• Mental Health Treatment Example: By doubling NHS talking therapies, more people with anxiety or depression could return to work at a relatively low cost.
• Critique of Welfare Assessments: Criticizes the shift to remote benefit assessments post-pandemic, calling it "just ridiculous"—

  "This should be a face to face discussion with someone who is working out how on earth do we deal with your issues so we can get you back into the labour market." (Jeremy Hunt, 06:44)

Britain’s Place in the World and Brexit Reflections

[07:00–10:18]

• On Rejoining the EU: Hunt is unequivocal—there should not be a debate about rejoining, citing the polarizing effect on politics.

  “It was a nightmare, wasn’t it, to have that debate?” (Jeremy Hunt, 07:42)

• Why 'Remain' Might Not Be His Vote Now: Changing global security realities since 2016 would now incline Hunt towards valuing "nimbleness" of being outside the EU.
• UK’s Economic Model Needs a Rethink: Britain must now think like Korea, Taiwan, or Israel by identifying and backing key sectors to compete globally:
  • Tech and life sciences (e.g., Cambridge as Europe's medical innovation hub)
  • Creative industries
  • Clean energy (e.g., world’s largest wind farms)
  • Aerospace (e.g., wings produced in North Wales)

The Problem of Government Inertia

[10:18–13:27]

• Slow Progress, Even With Good Intentions: Explains how accountability mechanisms, like judicial reviews, make the UK "too slow at getting things done," leading to public frustration.
• Comparison with the U.S. Approach: Contrasts UK and U.S. approaches on contentious issues such as illegal migration—implying Trump’s “brutal” methods were at least effective in the public eye.

  "We have got to find ways to get things done more quickly here." (Jeremy Hunt, 12:51)

Insights on Donald Trump

[13:27–16:19]

• Meeting Trump: Recounts first meeting; Trump’s immediate, unfiltered comment about Sadiq Khan.

  "His very first words...completely unrepeatable about the Mayor of London." (Jeremy Hunt, 13:54)

• Trump’s Mastery of Communication: Admiration for Trump’s direct connection with the public—spending hours daily on media and social platforms, in contrast to UK politicians’ approach.

  "If we want to start winning elections, we have got to start communicating like he does." (Jeremy Hunt, 15:43)

• Trump as Asset and Liability: Trump "loves Britain" but "not doing a great deal for the reputation of democracy on the global stage." (16:19)

UK–China Relations and the ‘Nimble’ Britain

[17:57–19:44] (Audience Q&A)

• Naivety About China: Hunt calls the UK's historic position on China "naive."
• Autocracy versus Democracy: Argues autocracies like China have a weakness—lack of dissent—e.g., likening to "Putin's generals before Ukraine."

  "For all our faults, at least in a democracy, we can have an open discussion like this." (Jeremy Hunt, 19:37)

Housing Crisis and Lessons from France

[19:48–23:22] (Audience Q&A)

• Planning System Bottlenecks: UK’s fragmented planning system worsens the housing crisis, especially for key workers in London.
• France’s Approach: French local authorities incentivized to approve development through fiscal autonomy—could be a model for UK reform.

  "The answer is we should copy France." (Jeremy Hunt, 20:38)

• Directly Elected Mayors with Tax Powers: Suggests radical devolution as the UK solution, giving elected officials full financial control and responsibility.
• Addressing Inequality: Acknowledges the risk of regional inequality but argues the UK’s over-centralization is more damaging.

The Migration Debate

[25:26–27:41] (Audience Q&A)

• Open and Welcoming Britain: Celebrates UK’s tradition of welcoming talent—emphasizing that a third of Nobel laureates came from overseas.
• Social Contract and Immigration Control: Hunt supports strong borders to maintain legitimacy in the eyes of the public, even suggesting willingness to leave the ECHR if public control cannot be exercised.

  "The reason that I have become a total hawk on immigration is because I'm worried that that social contract is fraying." (Jeremy Hunt, 26:59)

NHS, Targets, and the Meaning of Growth

[27:43–30:20] (Audience Q&A)

• On NHS Targets: Would abolish national targets but enforce total transparency of performance.
• GDP as a Metric: Agrees GDP isn’t perfect but paraphrases Angela Merkel—

  "Growth isn’t everything, it's true, but without growth everything is nothing." (Jeremy Hunt, 29:32)

Can Growth Be Sustainable?

[30:20–33:29] (Audience Q&A)

• Population and Clean Energy: Suggests economic growth can decouple from population and consumption increases; prosperity generally lowers birth rates.
• Energy Prices and Climate Action: UK’s high energy costs partly due to clean energy transition, which if balanced better, could boost growth without undermining climate goals.

  "If you cut our energy prices by a quarter, then you would probably add between a quarter to a half a percent to economic growth every year." (Jeremy Hunt, 31:09)

• The French Example (Again): Lower French energy bills (thanks to nuclear) have helped their economic performance.

Is Britain Too Reactive?—On Influence and Shaping the World

[33:35–36:32] (Audience Q&A)

• Current Malaise: Britain is "being far too reactive at the moment," lacking assertiveness.
• Potential and Responsibility: Despite current doubts, Hunt contends the UK is exceptionally well placed—thanks to key alliances, openness to global talent, and cultural influence.

  "We’ve got fantastic connections with Japan, Australia, Canada. We’re actually getting much closer in terms of geostrategic issues with the EU, mainly because Ukraine has made everyone...forget all the Brexit wars." (Jeremy Hunt, 36:16)

Notable Quotes

• “We simply cannot afford to carry on on the basis that we are.” — Jeremy Hunt (03:54)
• "This should be a face to face discussion with someone who is working out how on earth do we deal with your issues so we can get you back into the labour market." — Jeremy Hunt (06:44)
• “It was a nightmare, wasn’t it, to have that debate [about the EU]?” — Jeremy Hunt (07:42)
• "Growth isn’t everything, it's true, but without growth everything is nothing." — Jeremy Hunt citing Angela Merkel (29:32)
• "For all our faults, at least in a democracy, we can have an open discussion like this." — Jeremy Hunt (19:37)
• "We are being far too reactive at the moment. I completely agree, but we don't have to be. And we've got a lot more power to influence things around us if we so choose." — Jeremy Hunt (34:37)
• "The reason that I have become a total hawk on immigration is because I'm worried that that social contract is fraying and that people are beginning to say they want zero migration, which I think would be absolutely catastrophic for this country." — Jeremy Hunt (26:59)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:03] — Welfare reform: regrets, numbers, and social contract
• [07:00] — Brexit’s legacy and Britain’s economic model outside the EU
• [10:18] — Why government feels stuck: process vs. progress
• [13:27] — The Trump factor: communications and transatlantic implications
• [17:57] — China, autocracies, and the importance of open democracy
• [19:48] — Housing crisis: learning from France, devolution, and local empowerment
• [25:26] — Immigration: tradition, integration, and policy approaches
• [27:43] — NHS, targets, transparency, and GDP as a measure of success
• [30:20] — Sustainability of growth: clean energy and economic tradeoffs
• [33:35] — Britain’s ability to shape versus react to global events

This detailed episode summary offers a comprehensive look at the ideas, critiques, and proposals discussed by Jeremy Hunt, capturing the spirit of the live event and relevant details for those unable to listen.