The Thick of It: 20 Years On, with Armando Iannucci, Peter Capaldi, Chris Addison and Rebecca Front (Part One)

Summary

Intelligence Squared Podcast

"The Thick of It: 20 Years On" (Part One)

Guests: Armando Iannucci, Peter Capaldi, Chris Addison, Rebecca Front
Host: Miles Jupp
Date: October 3, 2025
Venue: Alexandra Palace Theatre

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Episode Overview

This special episode commemorates 20 years since the debut of The Thick of It, Armando Iannucci’s razor-sharp political satire. Host Miles Jupp is joined by Iannucci himself and stars Peter Capaldi, Chris Addison, and Rebecca Front. Together they revisit the show’s origins, production stories, the evolution of British political satire, and insights into their creative process. The discussion is candid, playful, and peppered with anecdotes—both humorous and insightful—about creating one of the UK’s most influential comedies.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Genesis of The Thick of It

(05:32–09:04)

• Armando Iannucci recounts the inspiration:

  • Drawn from making a documentary on "Yes Minister," he noticed how the political dynamics had changed by the Blair era:

    “What was different… was that the dynamic had changed… It was more the minister and his or her phalanx of unelected aides, and the pressure they were put upon by Number 10 and the Treasury… they were called ‘Enforcers’... Malcolms of this world.” (07:31)

  • The show’s “rough and ready, raw” mockumentary style aimed to reflect the chaos and behind-the-scenes anxiety of modern politics.
  • The series was greenlit with a small budget and shot in unused office spaces over a matter of days.

• Shifting the Satirical Lens:

  • Iannucci recognized the growing influence of 24-hour media and government spin, inspiring a focus on “spin doctors” and special advisors (Spads).

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2. Casting Stories and Character Development

(09:04–22:33)

Peter Capaldi & Malcolm Tucker

(10:34–15:56)

• Capaldi describes his “lull” in his career and how a bad mood at his audition (frustrated by pointless casting calls) serendipitously matched the energy of Malcolm Tucker:

  “By the time I got to Armando’s… my patience was running out… I went into this darkened little room in Soho… and [Armando] said, ‘Just improvise. Fuck this, fucking…’ So I didn’t realize that I was in the perfect zone to play this tired but talented creature.” (11:09–14:38)

• Iannucci describes a pivotal moment:

  “It was when you turned, I thought, oh, there’s Malcolm Tucker… there it was.” (15:03–15:56)

Chris Addison & Ollie Reeder

(16:15–18:31)

• Addison, originally a stand-up comic, invented a “Mail on Sunday” journalist character at a political comedy night, which led Iannucci to assume he was an actor.
• The show’s “Spad” roles were crafted to reflect hyper-youthful, ambitious special advisors, often informed by real-life anecdotes and interviews.

Rebecca Front & Nicola Murray

(18:43–22:33)

• Front highlights her intent not to be the “sensible one”; inspiration came from her conversation with a Labour spin doctor, who said:

  “Oh, if she believed in something.” (21:23)
  This belief made her character an “absolute nightmare” for Malcolm.

• Her real-life fears (phobias of lifts, trains) ended up incorporated into scripts, feeding the show’s “lived-in” realism.

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3. Collaborative Chaos: Melding Script and Improvisation

(26:47–31:24)

• The Show’s Mythic Improv:

  • Myth-busting: The show was tightly scripted, but the process involved rehearsal improvisations which influenced the final shoot.

    “We’d have a table read… then Armando would say, right, we’re gonna rehearse that scene, but you’re not gonna read off the script… just get from A to B, respond to what you hear…” - Chris Addison (27:04)

  • Iannucci often encouraged scenes to be reordered depending on the energy in the room:

    "Very often those versions would be... everything that's written in the script, but a slightly different order... it seemed more appropriate to whoever was saying the line next..." (28:06–28:44)

• Filming Style:

  • The technique included shooting with two cameras and no actor marks, allowing for radio-mic’d movement and natural interactions, seeking a documentary “caught on the fly” energy.

• Capturing Authenticity:

  • The team sometimes reshot scenes once actors settled into character, and even inserted unscripted moments if they reflected reality ("What if these two met in a corridor?").
  • Iannucci described having actors mic’d even off-camera for richer sound layers.

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4. On-set Experience, Tone, and Legacy

(31:24–37:53)

• Emotional Energy:

  • Front felt focused and weirdly relaxed working this way, despite the pressure:

    “I’m one of those people who… I’m anxious if I’m allowed space to be anxious; if there is no space, I’ve just got to focus.” (31:52–32:13)

  • Capaldi emphasized the process stripped away conventional acting safety nets:

    “What Armando did was he threw out all of the things that you were used to working with on a set… And it was one of the most educational… You had to be alive in the moment… It kind of made me an actor at last, was doing this.” (32:20–34:42)

  • Addison recalled the underlying sense of playful mischief:

    “It felt like a game. My main memory is of giddiness, you know… Because there was mischief in the air.” (34:42)

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5. Memorable Moments and Quotations

On the Casting Process:

• Capaldi, describing his bad mood at his audition:

  “The description should really have been: an MP walks in who looks exactly like Peter Capaldi.” (11:09)

On Incorporating Real Life into Script:

• Front recalling advice from a political insider:

  “What would make my character a complete nightmare for Malcolm? …‘Oh, if she believed in something.’” (21:23)

On Method Acting and On-Set Reality:

• Capaldi on the new acting demands:

  “You became utterly reliant upon the script and upon telling the story in the moment… It kind of made me an actor at last…” (32:20–34:42)

• Armando on observing Capaldi practice swearing for Malcolm’s tirades:

  “You could just see Malcolm Tucker in this glass room swearing constantly again and again and again for like hours and hours…” (36:22–36:50)

On Collaboration and Joy:

• Addison on on-set fun:

  “It always felt like a game. My main memory is of giddiness…” (34:42)

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6. Notable Panel Interactions & Personality

• Multiple playful jabs about each other’s career trajectories, with ongoing jokes about who “brought sense” to the operation and how the actors’ personal phobias and idiosyncrasies were “cannibalized” by the writers (23:21–23:25).
• Candid confessions about nerves, chaos, and the adrenaline of working without a net.

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Major Segment Timestamps

| Segment | Topic | |-------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------| | 05:32–09:04 | Creation and intent of The Thick of It | | 10:34–15:56 | Peter Capaldi’s audition as Malcolm Tucker | | 16:15–18:31 | Chris Addison’s route from standup to Spad | | 18:43–22:33 | Rebecca Front on character development and phobias | | 26:47–31:24 | The show’s unique blend of writing and improvisation | | 31:24–37:53 | On-set energy, filming style, and lessons learned |

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Conclusion

The discussion not only celebrates The Thick of It’s legacy, but lifts the curtain on the exhilarating chaos of its production—the creative risks, collaborative process, and personal quirks that defined it. The conversation delights both seasoned fans and newcomers, illuminating how the show’s unique mix of script, improv, and razor-sharp observation turned it into a cult classic and template for modern satire.

If you love inside-showbiz stories, British comedy, or have ever wondered how political satire strikes so close to home, this episode is essential listening.

Transcript

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[Armando Iannucci]

Jimmy Fallon and Bozma St. John host the incredible new competition show.

[Chris Addison]

I hired 10 creatives from all walks of life.

[Armando Iannucci]

They will be battling it out to see who can impress the world's biggest brands.

[Chris Addison]

This is a huge opportunity. This is the battle for the next big idea.

[Narrator/Host]

This is not Play Play.

[Chris Addison]

We're spending millions of dollars. I'm so excited to embark on this adventure with all of you.

[Armando Iannucci]

Made the Best idea win on Brand with Jimmy Fallon Friday on NBC. Before we begin, this episode includes explicit.

[Chris Addison]

Language that may not be suitable for all audiences.

[Narrator/Host]

Welcome to Intelligence Squared, where great minds meet. I'm producer Mia Sorrenti. Malcolm Tucker Pet as Beaus A law requiring everyone in Britain to carry around a plastic bag. It's been 20 years since Armando Annucci's the Thick of it first brought the chaos and drama of the fictitious Department of Social affairs and Citizenship into our lives. First aired on the BBC in 2005, the show satirized the Blair government's spring spin heavy Politics, with Peter Capaldi's foul mouthed character Malcolm Tucker quickly becoming one of Britain's most unforgettable TV villains. In September, Inucci joined us at Alexandra Palace Theatre alongside actors from the Show Peter Capaldi, Chris Addison and Rebecca Front. Hosted by actor and comedian Miles Jupp, the panel relived some of the funniest moments from the show, revealing behind the scene stories and also reflecting on politics and satire today. If you'd like to listen to this episode in full and ad free, why not become an Intelligence squared [e-mail] membership or tap the IQ2 extra button on Apple. Now let's join our host, Miles Jupp with more.

[Miles Jupp]

Good evening, thank you. Thank you very much indeed. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Alexandra Palace Theatre. What a delight it is to welcome so many people from, I'm sure, right across the political spectrum who are joining us to celebrate 20 years since the Department of Social affairs and Citizenship suddenly made its way onto British television In the Thick of It. So we will be talking to the creator of the Thick of It, some of the stars of the Thick of It, and then, you know, they'll be sort of trying to work out if they can remember anything that actually happened and just sort of scratching their heads a bit and probably we'll discuss ailments and then you will have a chance to ask questions yourself in the second half. This will be done by a QR code and I have no fucking idea how those work. So if you do, I'll be amazed. But best of luck to you. So, ladies and gentlemen, it gives me great pleasure to announce to welcome to the stage Chris Addison, Rebecca Front, Peter Capaldo and Emmanuel Inucci. Well, well done, guys. I suppose you're just, you're just have to try and win them over somehow. Let's start at the very beginning, I suppose, with the Grand Sultan of all this, Armando. Firstly, what can you remember about 2005? Can you remember having an idea essentially that turned into the Thick of It?

[Armando Iannucci]

Yes, I did. So I was asked to do. There was a period in British television where there were lots of competitions. It was all the great, the big conversation, the big read the big, the best books and they did the big sitcom, as in what was the top Britain's top 10 sitcoms. And I was asked if I wanted a documentary about yes Minister and I said yes and I did. And one of the joys of the research involved was to just watch every episode of yes Minister. And I mean it still stands up. It's a simple old topics that come through, you know, Europe and America. And I think there's one episode where Jim Hacker, who's then he's still a minister, discovers he's not on the IRA's death list and is slightly disappointing. But as I was watching this, I thought, what's different from the time that was made, which was mostly under Thatcher and that portrays the dynamic of a minister trying to get things done and the civil servant trying to stop them? I thought the dynamic had changed because this was sort of late Blair. This was like 2000. Well, actually it was 20 years ago.

[Chris Addison]

Presumably it was 2005. So, yeah, that's why we're here.

[Armando Iannucci]

That's why we're here.

[Chris Addison]

It's there. So it's behind you.

[Rebecca Front]

We should celebrate that.

[Chris Addison]

We should get together and do something.

[Armando Iannucci]

Are you the entertainment? Is this the that.

[Chris Addison]

That very much remains to be seen.

[Armando Iannucci]

I feel like I'm in a massive care home. That's. I don't want soup. I don't want. They gave me soap yesterday. I don't want soap. Got teeth. I'm not an amoeba.

[Miles Jupp]

So you watched something else and you liked it, so.

[Armando Iannucci]

So I thought. I thought the dynamic had changed and what it was under Blair and going into Gordon Brown's time was the dynamic had changed and it was more the minister and his or her phalanx of unelected aides and the pressure they were put upon by number 10 and the treasury and this great group of. They were called Enforcers that fanned out from number 10 the Malcolms of this world who would go into the ministries and basically tell them what they could do and what they couldn't do and what they could say and what they couldn't say. So it was that control happening and then of course the pressure from the 24 hour media and I thought, well, we should have something like that. And BBC4 was just starting and I went to the controller of BBC4, Roy Keating, and I said, I've got this idea for a. A thing, you know, an up to date. Yes Minister. And I'd like to make it very rough and ready and feel raw, almost like the cameras were catching something that we weren't really meant to see. And he said, he expressed. He gave me a number, an amount of money that he had available and it wasn't very much. And he said, what can you do with that? And I thought if we set it all in one set of disused offices and we could probably, over the course of eight or nine days, maybe shoot two or three episodes. So he said, okay, off you go. And that's what we did.

[Miles Jupp]

And so you just started to assemble a crack team. Writers first or did you have casting people in your head? The sort of people you Wanted to see in the.

[Armando Iannucci]

It started with the writers, which was, you know, Jesse Armstrong. He's done well. He's done very well.

[Chris Addison]

He's done all right. He's done all right.

[Armando Iannucci]

And Simon Blackwell, he heeds Goode and Tony Roach. So Tony and Jesse went on to do succession, and Simon's done back. And Breeders. Breeders, yes, of course. And we did David Colville together. And so that was it. And I said to them, look, we sort of bashed out a story, and I said, I want it to feel raw and rough and ready, and therefore not just fret over every sentence, especially in the first draft. Just put it down in a kind of mad rush, because then we've got something physical in our hands that we can then talk about and look at, and then we can finesse it. And I went into the whole process not quite knowing what we were going to end up with. I didn't know whether it would be actually quite serious, but with funny bits or whether it would be completely farcical. It was all a little bit of a shot in the dark, really.

[Miles Jupp]

And so when the idea. So like a Malcolm Tucker, and we don't need to talk about who that might or might not be based on. What made you think that this sort of. Sort of perpetual art student over here would have it deep within him to be a psychopath?

[Armando Iannucci]

So. Well, it was our casting director, Sarah Crowe, who I've worked with for decades now. Well, 20 years, two decades, specifically.

[Chris Addison]

Yeah. Said.

[Armando Iannucci]

And I did sort of casting. And she said, you must see Peter Capaldi. And I had you down as, you know, a genial, affable. But you arrived, and subsequently I heard that you were in a bad mood. Yeah, yeah.

[Peter Capaldi]

Do you want me to tell you that story?

[Chris Addison]

Yes. That's largely why we're here, Pedro.

[Armando Iannucci]

That's how it works, I think, Peter, I believe you've got something to say about.

[Peter Capaldi]

This is where you are, who you are, and I'm who I am. I was going through a lull in my career, it might be said. Actors have ups and downs, and I was going through a bit of a down period. Lucky to get a job in Midsummer Murders or maybe a Poirot or something. And not my ideas of being a glamorous leading man fading. Well, they faded quite quickly and wasn't in a very good mood because I'd been sent. This was an exciting day because I had two auditions, so that was possibly. We might have been going somewhere. The first one was at Television center, which was exciting. In this place. I was still excited about going to the BBC and all of that stuff. And I went into this audition for a sitcom in which the role was a Scottish MP of around my age and looks two scenes, and I had to go on tape in a room. And I looked around the room and I'd worked with every single person in the room. I'd done a job with them. And I thought, why are you making me do this? Jump through these hoops if you can't trust me to do this part? Which may have. You know, the description should really have been an MP walks in who looks exactly like Peter Capaldi. And I knew I wasn't gonna get the job because I flew. So by the time I got to Armando's interview, audition, whatever the fuck that was supposed to be, because they did not explain to me how this worked. So my patience was running out. So obviously, I was a huge admirer of Armando from Alan Partridge and lots of other things that he'd done. But they wouldn't explain what it was. They would just say, there's not a script. It's a kind of a political thing. It's vaguely based on yes Minister. And you just go in and meet them and improvise. And I thought, well, I hate improvisation anyway, in the first place. And so I went into this darkened little room in Soho, which has gone now, but I passed the sight of it and nod my head with deep thanks. Now every day I pass this little hole in the ground, and Amanda was there, and he was very genteel and Scottish, and Adam Tandy was there. He was a wonderful produce. Aunt Sarah, what do we do? Shall I read? There's nothing to read. All right. Okay. Well, what do I do? Well, you just. I'd just like you to do this scene, and you have to come in and sack this minister. I said, but what do I say? Well, you just say what you want.

[Armando Iannucci]

Is that you being me?

[Peter Capaldi]

It's pretty good. I would say our accents are pretty much interchangeable. So they said, you just improvise. Fuck this fucking. So I'd had enough of the whole thing. So I didn't realize that I was in the perfect zone to play this tired but talented creature.

[Armando Iannucci]

Who had had.

[Peter Capaldi]

Enough of dealing with all these boiler rooms full of useless marzipan dildos, as it turned out, who was standing in his way. So we just made up this scene where we sacked.

[Armando Iannucci]

Yeah, I think I said. I mean, there was a bit of structure and a bit of thought that went into it.

[Chris Addison]

That doesn't chime. I gotta be honest.

[Armando Iannucci]

I said, the scene is, you're coming in, you're being very nice to. To the minister. There's been a lot of bad press about the minister. You're very nicely trying to coax them into accepting that he may well have to go. I will be the minister and I will put up a little bit of resistance and then at some point just decide you've had enough and just tell me you're fucking resigning. And that's just how it works. And you're out. And that's what you did. And it was when you turned, I thought, oh, there's Malcolm Tucker, who. We hadn't written to be Scottish or anything really. He was just Malcolm. In fact, the script. A lot of the names of the script were Jesse Armstrong's five A side football team, including Terry Coverley, Ollie Reed, Malcolm Tucker. I mean, I don't know what they're doing now, but. Yeah, and there it was.

[Peter Capaldi]

Yeah, well, it was a really lucky day for me.

[Armando Iannucci]

Very good. Yeah.

[Miles Jupp]

So you've got this gentleman in, a fellow sort of west coast of Scotland man. Then you get. You bring Chris in as a sort of. I suppose that would have been a diversity hire.

[Armando Iannucci]

Yeah. Yes.

[Miles Jupp]

2005.

[Chris Addison]

Yeah, yeah.

[Armando Iannucci]

Yes. Who I saw. I went to a comedy thing. Was it on Monday nights? You and John Oliver. Well, he's. What's he doing now? And Andy Zaltzman.

[Chris Addison]

Yeah, so. So John Oliver and Andy Zaltzman, they opened a political standup night called Political Animal which went on to become a Radio 4 show. And the three of us have been making a show on Radio 4 called the Department there was. And they asked me to go along and do this for them. And I didn't really have any. I was a stand up. I didn't really have any political material as such. So I sort of invented a character.

[Armando Iannucci]

That's right, yeah.

[Chris Addison]

Dr. Tristan Harding of the Mail on Sunday, who basically I delivered a speech that is not unlike some of the speeches you might have heard if you were on a march a couple of weeks ago.

[Armando Iannucci]

You can't see anything these days. Yeah.

[Peter Capaldi]

They won't allow us to say anything.

[Chris Addison]

And it's the one and only time that I've ever. And I sort of dressed in a kind of linen suit to do it. And it's the one and only time I've ever done a character as stand up. And it's the one and only time you've ever seen me do stand up.

[Armando Iannucci]

Yeah. So I thought you were this amazing actor. Turns out he's not what a second he's not. And I asked you. And part of my research for the thinking it was speaking to ex ministers, civil servants, press officers, journalists who'd worked in the lobby.

[Peter Capaldi]

Name names?

[Chris Addison]

Yeah.

[Armando Iannucci]

Matthew Paris, Daniel Finkenstein and Martin Sixmith.

[Chris Addison]

Who. He was a consultant.

[Armando Iannucci]

Who was a consultant on it, who was the communications director for a department. I think it was transport.

[Chris Addison]

He got shit canned over this data.

[Armando Iannucci]

Very bad news. And it wasn't him that. But he had to, so. And the thing that the old kept arriving at was these. This word that I'd never heard before. Spad Special advisor. Who turns out were mostly 21 and 22 and which you wear.

[Chris Addison]

Well, I was 10 years old. I have tremendous jeans.

[Armando Iannucci]

Yes, but you certainly looked like a boy and.

[Chris Addison]

Yes, and in many respects was a boy.

[Miles Jupp]

And you were quite smitten. So it was.

[Armando Iannucci]

Yeah.

[Miles Jupp]

I mean, it sounds sort of chaotic. Obviously you'd worked with Armando. How many times did you work with Armando before then?

[Rebecca Front]

Me?

[Armando Iannucci]

On the Hour and stuff? Yeah, yeah.

[Rebecca Front]

Yes, we'd worked together.

[Armando Iannucci]

I mean, basically 30 years.

[Rebecca Front]

I think now it's 30 odd years. Yeah. So right through from on the Hour. And that film isn't there with.

[Armando Iannucci]

With all those dames. And you remember when. And I suddenly just felt like we're. I'm going back up to this. I do feel better like this. I really don't.

[Rebecca Front]

You do look a bit like Chris's ventriloquist dummy, though. That's an act I'd like to see.

[Armando Iannucci]

I don't know that actor. That's Malcolm. So. Yes. What was the qu.

[Chris Addison]

No.

[Miles Jupp]

Well, it was a question to Rebecca.

[Rebecca Front]

But I can't remember.

[Armando Iannucci]

Yeah, you were seen as chaotic. It's not.

[Miles Jupp]

Well, was it a slick operation? Do you feel by the time that you got involved with it, Rebecca, I mean, did you sort of instil some sense?

[Rebecca Front]

Frankly, yes. That was what I was trying not to do. What I didn't want to do was to come in and be the sensible one. And I knew Armando wouldn't make me do that. But I had many years before done a children's sitcom in which. I've talked about this many times and it was a lovely show to be involved with, but it was set in a magic theater. It was chaotic. Bernie Clifton was in it. It was wild and crazy and every week my job was to run in and go, bernie, come on, be serious. We've got a theater to save. So when I went into my audition. Not my audition, when I went into my first kind of improv, that was really at the forefront of my mind was, I don't want to just kind of come in and be sensible and serious, you know, sort of go, malcolm, do calm down. Try and swear a bit less. That was very definitely what I didn't want to do. But fortunately, you didn't want me to do that either. No, I came into it and I had already watched the show, you know, I'd watched it all and loved it, and had been sent off out of the house that morning by my husband, saying, please don't fuck this up. So I went in, sort of, but I didn't really. We didn't have any idea of who she was, did we, at the beginning?

[Armando Iannucci]

We were very sure, I think you were very sure that she wanted to have. Be passionate about one thing, which was social mobility.

[Indeed Sponsor]

Yes.

[Armando Iannucci]

And she would just keep going on about that.

[Rebecca Front]

Well, that. That was. In fact, that came fractionally later, because that was when I went off and did a bit of sort of guerrilla research and with a guy who had worked in spin for the Labour Party, and I took him out for lunch and he sort of talked a lot about working in spin and what that all entailed. And at the end of it, I just said to him, what would make my character a complete nightmare for Malcolm? And I remember he was reaching for his jacket or something, so it was very sort of off the cuff, and he just went, oh, if she believed in something. And I remember ringing you straight afterwards and going, oh, Amanda, we've got a great idea. So that's what. I think. That's what fired you all up, to think of her as this, as someone who believed it, who had the temerity to have some ideas and believe in stuff. But equally, of course, that could have gone a little towards Be serious, Bernie. But it never did, I'm glad to say, because she believed in stuff, but she was hopeless. She was, you know, clearly, completely without any talent or anything.

[Armando Iannucci]

Unfortunately, I like to draw from what's actually happening in the room. And when you mentioned that you don't go into lifts.

[Rebecca Front]

Oh, yeah.

[Armando Iannucci]

It ended up in a scene where Malcolm discovers you don't do lifts.

[Chris Addison]

That's the omnishamble speech.

[Armando Iannucci]

And that's where the Omnishambles speech arises.

[Rebecca Front]

No, in fact, my phobia are all over that series because I also, at the time, didn't use trains.

[Armando Iannucci]

Oh, I remember. You only told me after that, there's a whole episode set on a train.

[Rebecca Front]

The night before that train episode, I literally had not slept a wink because.

[Armando Iannucci]

I was terrified you didn't tell me. It was only afterwards that you told me.

[Rebecca Front]

Yeah, but. But actually it sort of fed into the whole.

[Chris Addison]

Yeah, you're also febrile.

[Rebecca Front]

Energy of the whole.

[Chris Addison]

You're quite scared of politics, aren't you?

[Rebecca Front]

Very, very scared. Scared of opinions.

[Chris Addison]

Yeah.

[Narrator/Host]

And.

[Rebecca Front]

And spads. Very scared of all of it.

[Chris Addison]

But that is the thing that happened to all of us is that you essentially cannibalized all of our weaknesses.

[Armando Iannucci]

I'm so sorry. You have to remember when a guest. Well, we can discuss. Because you're in a couple of the episodes when a guest comes on, we have to warn them that lots of very aggressive swearing will be centered around their physical appearance.

[Chris Addison]

Yeah. What do you remember when. The first time. The first time we had David Hage in for a time table reads. And we got to the end of it and the table reads are incredibly long, aren't they? Because there's scripts for the thick of it were like 60 pages, which is twice the length of a half hour show. And at the end of it, and it was all, you know, it was all fucking Super Mario here and you know, the guy with the porn mustache and all of that. And then we. And then we went the end. And there was a sort of silence in our mind. Went, I'm so sorry. We should have said.

[Rebecca Front]

I remember doing an improv with you where. And I was wearing what I thought were a pair of rather cool sort of like olive green suede boots. And you sort of went, you and you. You with your fucking boots. My boots. They were new on. I don't think I ever wore them after that.

[Miles Jupp]

Yes, you did me like that. I had a sort of ginger beard at the time. And you grabbed me and called me a jazz rich and still go.

[Rebecca Front]

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[Chris Addison]

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[Peter Capaldi]

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[Narrator/Host]

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[Chris Addison]

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[Miles Jupp]

You're talking about this script, then, and then improv. That's the aspect of the program that is sort of an enigma, evades the viewers. People always take. Because the whole thing's made up, isn't.

[Chris Addison]

Is? Don't listen to him. The whole thing was made up. It all came from us.

[Miles Jupp]

What's the process from your perspective, Chris?

[Chris Addison]

So the way that. Well, it was sort of terrifying to begin with, I think, for everybody, wasn't it? And we kind of found the process a little bit through the first few shows. But basically what would happen is that we'd have a table read of the script, and then we would put the script to one side so the thing had been properly written. We would put the script to one side. And then Armando would say, right, we're gonna rehearse that scene, but you're not gonna read off the script. Just, you know, get from A to B, respond to what you hear. Watch the overlaps. And the writers would sit in the room with us, and if something useful came up, they would note it down and that would get fed into the shooting script. But when we got to the shooting, what would generally happen is that we would do several takes of a scene. One would be bang on the script, one would be towards the end, nowhere near the script, which was just kind of what? You know, just get from A to B. And the majority of them, it felt to me, were just a little bit dirtied up around the edges, weren't they? So, you know, just to make it feel a bit real.

[Armando Iannucci]

Yeah. And very often those versions would be. It's everything that's in this, in this. Written in the script, in the scene, but a slightly different order. Just because the mood changed at that point rather than at this point. And therefore it seemed more appropriate to whoever was saying the line next to use that line rather than the one that was cued then. And it just felt more real. And I also, if we had time, especially with the first episode, it takes a little while to get into the tone of it and the characters and so on. So actually by the end of the first couple of episodes that we shot, we then went back and reshot the opening scene again.

[Chris Addison]

Because by then the full first morning again. Didn't you seem to remember?

[Armando Iannucci]

Yeah, because by then everyone had finished, found the tone and the character and the kind of roughness and weariness. Whereas on day one of the shoot, everyone's all kind of, yeah, bust.

[Miles Jupp]

What are we going to do?

[Armando Iannucci]

But really we want. Oh, God, what are we going to do now? What are we going to do? You know, we want that really.

[Chris Addison]

Lots of that improvised stuff as well. It felt like the stuff that got used in the cut was often people's reactions rather than lines.

[Armando Iannucci]

You know, I kind of. If there's time, ask the camera operators to. To do a pass that excludes people who are talking. So it's all just taking shots for people listening. Because sometimes the funniest bit is someone else going, you know, it's all that and it. And there were no marks, so you didn't have to hit the same, you know, bit of the set. You were all radio mic'd up, so you could wander. So especially in the early episodes, everyone was on, even if they weren't in shot, you know, if they had gone around the corner, we could still hear them if they whispered about what was going on. So we did an element of that and it was really just to try and get that roughness that, like I said earlier, almost like we shouldn't really be watching this. You know, this really is what goes on behind closed doors and should we be seeing this? It was that. That element. But there is. Yeah, there is. And I think what's different is that what we did was we would have a couple of weeks rehearsal time in advance of the shoot, which doesn't normally happen. And that's when the real work on. On the dynamic and the characters in the scene happen. So it means when we're on set, there's. We're slightly. Some of those questions that people would otherwise ask of me or of the director on the day. Hopefully they've been answered a little bit earlier so that we could just get on with it.

[Chris Addison]

One of the things that always struck me about the improv that we did during the rehearsals was that there would be occasions where you would say, ah, these two don't meet. Well, it'd be interesting if these two met. And then you just say, well, okay, you met in a corridor and you're delivering a message or whatever. And a scene would be improvised just to see what happens if those characters were to encounter.

[Armando Iannucci]

And that might be fed in visually. You know, you're doing what's on the page, but you've forgotten that Malcolm is standing behind a glass door outside. So, well, let's give him something to do. It's that.

[Miles Jupp]

But you sort of develop your own way of making something. I remember seeing a long time ago, seeing you speaking at Event Chris about Armando and saying he's someone that's always. He's refused to accept as an answer to why can't I do this? Because this is the way it's always been done.

[Chris Addison]

I think that's true.

[Miles Jupp]

So you've developed this kind of new way of working. As you say, it's unlike anything else. I mean, to be in. In the midst of it, Peter and Becca, when, you know, as a way of working, is it adrenaline fueled? Is it serene? What's going through your head?

[Rebecca Front]

There's a lot of adrenaline, but. But it is weirdly, I find it quite calming working that way. I think because your concentration is so focused you can't think about anything else. And I'm one of those people who sort of. I'm anxious if I'm allowed space, to be anxious if there is no space. I've just got to focus. And so I always find it really.

[Armando Iannucci]

Oh, we should have used that.

[Rebecca Front]

Relaxing. I think you did. So, yeah. What do you think?

[Peter Capaldi]

I find it quite terrifying. I think most of the actors were terrified, really, because what Armando did was he threw out all of the things that you were used to working with on a set. You know, normally you come in and it's just the actors and the director. The director says, you come in, you stand there, there's a mark over there for you, and you rehearse it and go around it. Are you happy with that? You okay, love? That's lovely. That's fine. That's lovely. Then they invite the camera team in and the camera. Oh, I might put. The camera will move there and there'll be a close up there. We'll use an 85 millimeter lens there, or 75, you know, and I Had got to the stage in my career where I sort of thought I knew about filming a little bit. And even though I could, even though they wouldn't be discussing it with me, if I was on the set of Midsummer Murders or Poirot or something, I would hear them say, well, we'll put an 85 millimeter lens on. An 85mm lens is traditionally a lens that you would use for a sort of close up. And I think, well, I'll deliver a close up performance then. All right. Here they'd be putting on a 28, which is a wider kind of thing. But with Armando, they used two cameras which shot all the time. The cameras were zoom lenses, so they could be way over there in the corner and they could be on a close up and you would never know. And he didn't rehearse it, didn't give you any marks. You didn't know where to stand, you didn't know where anybody else was going to stand. And so you became utterly reliant upon the script and upon telling the story in the moment. And it was one of the most educational. It's what, you know, it kind of made me an actor at last, was doing this because you just had to be alive in the moment. All the stuff that I'd heard actors talk about and never really understood understood. You just had to be there. You had to make it work and live it. And there was no. You had no relationship with the camera in terms of trying to figure out a technique to work with it. You just had to be. And I think all of us who worked on the show brought that with us to everything else that we've done. And you can't, all of us carry that same sense of. Of looking for that life and that energy in whatever we do. So that's part of the Armando Academy.

[Chris Addison]

As you would say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it felt like this sounds. It sounds like I'm trivializing and I'm not. I'm saying this in the best possible way. It felt like a game. It always felt like a game. It felt like we were playing all the time. Like my main memory is of giddiness, you know, and not just when you were there. Miles. I think also I really struggled. I mean, there was no more giddy, never a giddier personal set, but generally it felt like. Because there was mischief in the air apart from anything else, you know, I remember very distinctly when we were shooting the first episode of the third series, which was Nicola's first episode, and I was sitting at Ollie's desk, which is just outside in the bullpen. And I saw you go haring past me, looking gleeful into the office, talk to Rebecca and then run out with a quick glance at me and I thought, oh, for fuck's sake. And I went into the, you know, went into the office and the scene was going to be, you know, Nicola was going through her staff to see who was wheat, who was chaff. And it was scripted and I knew what I was supposed to say and I got in there and Rebecca said, I hear you've been doing impressions of me around the office. And I went, well, I just said, go on then. And I remember looking at you, looking for my friend Rebecca in the eyes. No, no Rebecca there. Right. But Armando would do. You would do that. You would give people things to do, wouldn't you?

[Armando Iannucci]

Shock us if nothing came of it? It wouldn't make the cut. But then at least to things like. Cause I remember I have two visual memories about Malcolm, which is first of all, Peter, just to stress how much it is scripted, those big tirades that Malcolm does. I know you would spend a lot of time kind of almost like committing them to muscle memory. So you would. But we had these glass offices because it was an old set of offices, a business that we were working in and you had a room and you could just see Malcolm Tucker in this glass room swearing constantly again and again and again for like hours and hours. So that you could. But in terms of setting stuff up that you don't know, I mean, partly it's about. Because the theme is really they're kind of making it up as they go along. They don't really know whether it's good. You know, that's fundamentally the theme of the program. So there's that. But you know, we would spring little things. Not in every episode, but I remember when Malcolm was made to resign and we set the whole set of officers up that we said wander around. And I don't think you knew, Peter, that Sam, your assistant, would be in another room in tears because you were leaving with some big burly people trying to get her out. And you just went in and defended her and pushed them out, which was all unscripted and was all just, you know, that's probably what would happen.

[Peter Capaldi]

Really kind of guy I am.

[Narrator/Host]

Thanks for listening to Intelligence Squared. This episode was produced by Connor Boyle and it was edited by Mark Roberts. For ad free episodes and full length recordings. You can become a [e-mail] membership and to join us at future events, head to intelligencesquared.com attend to see our full events program.

[Armando Iannucci]

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[Peter Capaldi]

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[Armando Iannucci]

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[Chris Addison]

Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us?

[Peter Capaldi]

Cut the camera.

[Miles Jupp]

They see us.

[Armando Iannucci]

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[Narrator/Host]

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[Rebecca Front]

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