Intelligence Squared Podcast Summary

Episode: What Stories Are Written in the Rock Beneath Us?
Guest: Dr. Anjana Katwa
Host: Professor Caroline Dodds Pennock
Date: November 21, 2025

Overview

In this evocative and multifaceted conversation, earth scientist and storyteller Dr. Anjana Katwa joins Intelligence Squared to unlock the hidden narratives within the rocks beneath our feet. Through personal anecdotes, global examples, and a blend of scientific and indigenous perspectives, Katwa and host Caroline Dodds Pennock explore how geology is not just a technical science, but a living archive of culture, memory, identity, and environmental challenge. Together, they consider how reframing our relationship with rocks can foster empathy, sustainability, and a deeper sense of connection with the planet.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Image Problem of Geology

• Rocks as Invisible Backdrop:
  • Rocks are everywhere yet often overlooked as inanimate and irrelevant.
  • Dr. Katwa describes her family's confusion over her early fascination with rocks.
  • Rocks have “an image problem”—we struggle to see their importance due to cultural narratives and the way science communicates their value.
  • [04:23]
• Quote:

  "I think geology has a real image problem...Rocks are almost invisible in front of our own eyes...[but] they have affected our lives, our society, our histories, and indeed it will be our future in ways that we can't even imagine."
  — Dr. Anjana Katwa [04:23]

Personifying Rocks and Reclaiming their Stories

• Disconnect Between Rocks and Nature:
  • Rocks are excluded from romanticized stories about nature due to their imperceptible changes over human lifetimes.
  • [05:58]
• Storytelling as a Bridge:
  • Dr. Katwa uses the metaphor of “holding the moment a mountain was born” to evoke wonder.
  • Rocks are ancient story keepers, not merely economic resources but spiritual presences as well.
  • [05:58–08:20]
• Quote:

  "When I hold rocks like this...if I told you I was holding the moment when a mountain was born, then suddenly something stirs in your heart and you want to know more about it."
  — Dr. Anjana Katwa [07:29]

Blending Scientific and Indigenous Knowledge

• Animacy and Connection:
  • Many indigenous cultures see rocks and landscapes as ancestors or living entities imbued with memory, emotion, and community identity.
  • Touching rocks becomes a way to enact ancient traditions of connection and grounding.
  • [08:55–10:28]
• Quote:

  "For all of these cultures across the world, the rocks become alive. And that's where the animacy of their existence lies."
  — Dr. Anjana Katwa [10:08]

Rocks as Relational: Memory, Myth, and Daily Life

• Geologists as Time Travelers:
  • Rocks embody both personal and collective stories.
  • Everyday objects—paving stones, collected pebbles—are containers of both individual memories and deep planetary history.
  • [11:13–12:28]
• Layered Meaning:
  • Scientific facts, traditional wisdom, and personal experience combine to animate the geology around us.
  • Stonehenge cited as a resonant British example, showing how ancient people used rock to make sense of the cosmos and their place within it.
  • [11:13–12:28]

Material and Historical Centrality of Rocks

• Economic and Industrial Impact:
  • Rocks are the literal foundation of civilizations, industries, borders, and ongoing environmental issues.
  • Example: Ironbridge Gorge and Britain’s Industrial Revolution—the “holy trinity” of limestone, iron ore, and coal.
  • [12:59–15:26]
• Complex Dependence:
  • Dr. Katwa acknowledges the tension between modern reliance on geological resources and the need for ethical, empathetic stewardship.
  • [12:59–15:26]
• Quote:

  "We have to ask ourselves...how much are we willing to wound the earth in order to live in the lifestyles that we're used to?"
  — Dr. Anjana Katwa [14:46]

Ethical Relationships with Earth

• Custodianship vs. Ownership:
  • Rocks, and the minerals within them, are finite and require respect and protection.
  • Love and awe for the time and force it takes to form rocks are positioned as starting points for a better relationship with nature.
  • [18:41–21:13]
• Quote:

  "Once we realize that actually rocks are a very finite resource, then I think we begin to look at them in a far more careful way...they deserve our respect."
  — Dr. Anjana Katwa [19:44]

Deep Time, Identity, and Loss

• Rocks as Cosmic Connectors:
  • Stonehenge and other sacred sites were attempts to situate humanity between land and sky.
  • Indigenous stories (e.g., the Lakota and the Black Hills, Māori and the greenstone Pounamu) demonstrate how geology is interwoven with cultural origins, oral mapping, and, at times, tragedy and dispossession (such as the transformation of Six Grandfathers Mountain into Mount Rushmore).
  • [21:46–24:48]
• Quote:

  "Within that story is this immense sense of loss...these ancestral lands that held so much value and sacred worship for the Lakota has been taken away from them."
  — Dr. Anjana Katwa [23:50]

Colonialism, Exploitation, and the Ethics of Storytelling

• Buildings as Symbols:
  • The Taj Mahal’s Makrana marble contains a colonial narrative of exploitation and also resilience: Indian marble was ultimately proven superior to European varieties despite colonial prejudices.
  • [25:28–27:45]
• Positionality and Power in Knowledge:
  • Dr. Katwa foregrounds her identity and privilege in the book’s introduction, highlighting the responsibility that comes with retelling indigenous stories and scientific knowledge.
  • [27:45–30:45]
• Quote:

  "I wanted to especially start the book off from a point of equity...because what it does is it sets the tone of the book in a position of equity."
  — Dr. Anjana Katwa [29:19]

Practical Pathways to Personal Connection

• Finding Meaning in the Everyday:
  • Anyone can begin a relationship with landscape by touching a collected stone, exploring local geology, or recalling a memory attached to a particular rock.
  • Personal stories imbue meaning and help cultivate empathy and stewardship.
  • [31:40–33:35]
• Quote:

  "I think it just starts with a touch, actually...They are such great holders of history and deep time, whether we're talking geologically or whether we're talking personally."
  — Dr. Anjana Katwa [32:19]

Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

• On storytelling and personal connection:

  "When I'm holding this rock in my hand, if I told you I was holding the moment when a mountain was born, then suddenly something stirs in your heart..."
  — Dr. Anjana Katwa [07:29]

• On indigenous legacies in geology:

  "For all of these cultures across the world, the rocks become alive. And that's where the animacy of their existence lies."
  — Dr. Anjana Katwa [10:08]

• On resource responsibility:

  "We have to ask ourselves...how much are we willing to wound the earth in order to live in the lifestyles that we're used to?"
  — Dr. Anjana Katwa [14:46]

• On colonial histories in rock:

  "I found at the end of this bit of research...that the Macrana marble actually won over the European marble. And so it was this, like, moment of, well, it's actually science, it's actually geology. The rock spoke for itself."
  — Dr. Anjana Katwa [27:21]

• On the ethics of voice and representation:

  "For me it was vital because what it does is it sets the tone of the book in a position of equity...I don't believe that Indigenous peoples across the world have ever been voiceless...It's just the fact that we've never stopped to listen to their stories."
  — Dr. Anjana Katwa [29:19]

• On the power of personal memory:

  "When you look at your rocks or any pebble or stone that you've picked up, you will have imbued it with the memory of that moment...The rocks are always there. They have a solidity to them that I don't think any part of the natural world does."
  — Dr. Anjana Katwa [33:35]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & guest background: [02:26–03:44]
• Why geology feels distant: [03:47–05:24]
• Bringing rocks into our stories: [05:24–08:20]
• Science and indigenous ways of knowing: [08:20–10:28]
• Personal connection, memory, and time travel: [10:28–12:28]
• Geology, industry, and ethical dilemmas: [12:59–15:26]
• Ethical custodianship & emotional connection: [18:06–21:13]
• Stonehenge, Lakota, Māori, cultural identity: [21:13–24:48]
• Colonial histories and exploitation: [25:28–27:45]
• Positionality & ethical storytelling: [27:45–30:45]
• Everyday ways to connect with rocks: [31:40–33:35]
• Closing reflections: [33:35–34:44]

Takeaway

This episode invites listeners to look beneath their feet and see rich, layered histories stretching far beyond geology textbooks. Katwa’s work emphasizes the emotional and ethical value of rocks as connectors—between people, cultures, and epochs—and challenges us to transition from passive users to active custodians of Earth's ancient archives.

Further Exploration

• Book: Whispers of Stories from the Earth by Dr. Anjana Katwa
• Presenter: Dr. Katwa’s work can be found across BBC, ITV, and Channel 5 scientific programming

This summary captures the deep engagement, personal stories, and ethical challenges at the heart of the conversation, making it accessible for anyone curious about how rocks, memory, and identity intertwine.