Intelligent Machines Podcast Episode IM 818: "Between Two Orbs - Meet Surf, Flipboard's Solution for a Fractured Social Web"
Host and Guests:
- Leo Laporte – Host of Intelligent Machines
- Jeff Jarvis – Professor of Journalism
- Paris Martineau – Co-host
- Mike McHugh – Guest, Creator of Surf and Flipboard
Release Date: May 8, 2025
Introduction to Surf: The Next Generation Social Browser
The episode kicks off with Leo Laporte introducing Mike McHugh, a seasoned entrepreneur known for his work with Flipboard. Mike presents his latest venture, Surf, a revolutionary social web browser designed to unify fragmented social media platforms through open protocols.
Mike McHugh explains, “Surf is a browser for the open social web, which is made up of Activity Pub, Proto, and RSS” (06:06).
Evolution from Flipboard to Surf
Mike recounts his entrepreneurial journey, emphasizing his passion for building products that democratize information access and foster connectivity. From early ventures like a 3D browser using VRML to Flipboard, Mike's trajectory showcases his consistent focus on innovative browser technologies.
Mike McHugh: “I've been building some kind of a web browser for pretty much my entire career” (03:54).
The Need for an Open Social Ecosystem
Mike underscores the limitations of proprietary social media platforms like TikTok, which confine users to specific content types. Surf aims to break these silos by allowing users to access diverse content—from videos to podcasts—within a single, cohesive interface.
Mike McHugh: “People should be able to post videos, podcasts, short text posts, long text posts. It’s not like you should have a separate app just to look at only photos or just videos” (07:04).
Integration with Open Protocols
Surf leverages open protocols such as Activity Pub, Proto, and RSS, enabling seamless interaction across various social platforms like Blue Sky, Mastodon, and even RSS-based services. This integration ensures that users can follow and engage with content regardless of the underlying platform.
Mike McHugh: “When we say the social web, the open social web, that’s basically all the people posting with these apps that are compatible with these protocols” (10:50).
Demonstration of Surf’s Features
Mike provides a live demo of Surf, showcasing its intuitive interface where users can follow feeds like NBA Threads—a unified stream of posts across Blue Sky, Threads, and Mastodon. The demo highlights Surf’s ability to filter content, engage with posts, and seamlessly switch between different content types.
Mike McHugh: “Surf is a browser. It doesn’t browse websites as much as it browses feeds. We think of the OpenSocial web as a collection of feeds.” (06:06).
Curation and Quality Content
A significant aspect of Surf is its emphasis on human curation. By enabling trusted curators to compile and share high-quality feeds, Surf addresses the issue of AI-generated "slop" content cluttering the web. This approach ensures that users have access to reliable and meaningful information.
Mike McHugh: “We think the more people collaborate and curate feeds, the higher the quality of content Surf delivers” (24:52).
Business Model and Revenue Streams
Mike discusses Surf’s flexible business model, which allows content creators to choose how they monetize their feeds. Options include contextual advertising, paywalls, and community memberships, ensuring that creators can sustain their work without compromising user experience.
Mike McHugh: “Creators should be able to put ads in their feed... or have a paywall on their feed” (33:21).
Future Plans and Public Release
Currently in a private beta accessible via TestFlight for both iOS and Android, Surf is gathering feedback from early adopters to refine its features. Mike expresses optimism about a public release later in the summer, aiming to capture a broad user base and foster diverse communities.
Mike McHugh: “I'm hoping that later this summer we can get into production” (36:26).
Community and Collaboration in the Fediverse
Mike highlights the collaborative spirit within the Fediverse community, mentioning key figures like Eugene Rochko of Mastodon and Jay Graeber of Ghost. He emphasizes that Surf is not just another app but a platform fostering genuine human connections across diverse social protocols.
Mike McHugh: “What's good about this is it’s not about the apps, it’s about the communities that are being built on this new open ecosystem” (50:23).
Closing Thoughts: The Future of the Open Social Web
The conversation concludes with Mike drawing parallels between the early days of the web and the current shift towards an open social ecosystem. He envisions Surf as the "Netscape of the OpenSocial web," making the open web more approachable and discoverable for everyday users.
Mike McHugh: “We’re trying to say, okay, well, if we just started with a clean slate now, knowing where we are” (22:24).
Notable Quotes
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Mike McHugh [03:54]: “I've been building some kind of a web browser for pretty much my entire career.”
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Mike McHugh [06:06]: “Surf is a browser for the open social web, which is made up of Activity Pub, Proto, and RSS.”
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Mike McHugh [07:04]: “People should be able to post videos, podcasts, short text posts, long text posts. It’s not like you should have a separate app just to look at only photos or just videos.”
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Mike McHugh [24:52]: “We think the more people collaborate and curate feeds, the higher the quality of content Surf delivers”.
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Mike McHugh [33:21]: “Creators should be able to put ads in their feed... or have a paywall on their feed”.
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Mike McHugh [36:26]: “I'm hoping that later this summer we can get into production”.
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Mike McHugh [50:23]: “What's good about this is it’s not about the apps, it’s about the communities that are being built on this new open ecosystem”.
Conclusion
In this episode of Intelligent Machines, Mike McHugh introduces Surf, a pioneering social browser poised to reshape the fragmented landscape of social media by leveraging open protocols and emphasizing human-curated content. Surf aims to provide a unified, high-quality, and user-centric experience, ensuring that genuine human connections and valuable content remain at the forefront of the open social web.
Timestamps Reference:
(Note: Timestamps are approximate based on transcript sections and may slightly differ from the actual podcast.)