TWiG 789: Mauritius Compliance - Satoshi Unmasked, End of .io, Megalopolis

Summary

Episode Summary: TWiG 789 – Mauritius Compliance, Satoshi Unmasked, End of .io, Megalopolis

Podcast Information:

• Title: This Week in Google (Audio)
• Hosts: Leo Laporte, Jeff Jarvis, Paris Martineau
• Description: Each Wednesday, Leo, Jeff, and Paris delve into Big Tech topics, including AI, Internet trends, media futures, and emerging technologies.
• Episode: TWiG 789: Mauritius Compliance - Satoshi Unmasked, End of .io, Megalopolis
• Release Date: October 10, 2024

---

1. Introduction and Episode Highlights

The episode kicks off with Leo Laporte welcoming Paris Martineau back alongside Jeff Jarvis. The main topics for discussion include significant court decisions against Google, TikTok's legal battles, the mystery surrounding Satoshi Nakamoto, and a review of Coppola's film Megalopolis.

[00:00] Leo Laporte: "We'll talk about two big court decisions going against Google, one for the App Store and, well, one, it's the DOJ saying, I think we're going to break Google up."

---

2. Social Media and Child Safety

Lawsuits Against TikTok and Social Media Addiction

The conversation shifts to the recent lawsuits filed by thirteen states and the District of Columbia against TikTok. Jeff Jarvis explains the novel legal strategy aiming to bypass Section 230 by targeting TikTok's algorithm and product design for being addictive to children.

[04:43] Jeff Jarvis: "They're trying to basically sidestep Section 230 protections by using the principles of product liability to get these companies on negligent design."

Algorithms and Their Impact on Youth

The hosts debate whether social media algorithms genuinely harm children or if this is a case of moral panic. Paris argues that algorithms are merely ranking tools, not inherently harmful.

[12:26] Paris Martineau: "The algorithm is just ranking, making ranking decisions. That's all it's doing."

Leo contends that algorithms optimize for user engagement, which can negatively impact young users by keeping them hooked.

[09:46] Leo Laporte: "That's just saying social media is too much fun. So please make it boring."

Government Regulation vs. Parental Control

Jeff supports some level of regulation, noting that while parental controls are ideal, the reality is that many parents lack the resources to manage their children's online activities effectively.

[14:35] Jeff Jarvis: "Most people who do not… can't [manage extensive parental controls]."

Paris counters by emphasizing the lack of research supporting claims that algorithms are harmful, labeling the backlash against algorithms as a form of demonizing math.

[14:50] Paris Martineau: "Show me the research that says that the algorithm does this to children."

---

3. Satoshi Nakamoto Unmasked?

Review of "Electric Money" Documentary

The hosts discuss the HBO documentary Electric Money, which attempts to unmask Satoshi Nakamoto. Leo shares his skepticism about the film's claims, particularly the theory that Peter Todd and Adam Back are behind the pseudonym.

[32:51] Jeff Jarvis: "He quite credibly unmasked Q because the Q... I'm not sure if the same is true with Satoshi Nakamoto."

[36:01] Paris Martineau: "I think it might… maybe it should."

Analyzing the Evidence

Jeff and Leo dissect the evidence presented in the documentary, such as shared favorite pizza toppings and technical writing similarities, finding them inconclusive.

[42:32] Jeff Jarvis: "Satoshi… accidently logged back in using another account… Peter Todd... didn't delete it… That's flimsy, to say the least."

[44:35] Paris Martineau: "Does it matter? Is the bottom line…"

Implications of Unmasking Satoshi

The discussion touches on the potential consequences if Satoshi Nakamoto were identified, including market manipulation risks and the personal safety of the individual(s) involved.

[45:02] Benito: "If this person is Satoshi Nakamoto, then they essentially have control of the bitcoin market."

---

4. End of .io Domains

Background on .io Domains

The hosts explain that .io is the country code top-level domain (ccTLD) for the British Indian Ocean Territory, which is disputed territory claimed by Mauritius. Recent geopolitical changes have threatened the continuity of the .io domain.

[57:00] Leo Laporte: “I know it was bought. It was registered by someone else in 2007…”

Potential Retirement and Impact

With Mauritius regaining sovereignty over the Chagos Islands, there's uncertainty about the future of the .io domain. Leo expresses concern over the economic implications as the domain is widely used by tech companies.

[58:51] Paris Martineau: “Why does it end it?”

[59:51] Benito: “Can we just decide to make it not a country thing and just a regular domain?”

Economic and Technical Ramifications

The possible retirement of .io could disrupt numerous businesses relying on this domain for their operations, necessitating a transition plan to prevent widespread issues.

[60:31] Benito: “OK, so there it is. It's the money.”

[61:09] Jeff Jarvis: “And I think the judge probably is more sophisticated than the jury. I don't know.”

---

5. Review of Megalopolis

Discussion on Coppola's Film

Leo and Jeff delve into Megalopolis, Francis Ford Coppola's ambitious and long-in-the-making project. They share their mixed feelings about the film's reception and its immersive theatrical experience.

[32:51] Leo Laporte: “What are you going to do then? Google IO. All of that and more coming up…”

[75:04] Jeff Jarvis: “I spent the whole time thinking about Adam Driver as Leo because he famously voiced an early version…”

Audience Reception and Immersive Elements

Jeff describes the film's unique immersive elements, such as interactive scenes and real-time audience participation, comparing it to experimental performances like The Rocky Horror Picture Show.

[76:35] Jeff Jarvis: “It was sold out… people were laughing their butts off during it because there are some really strange choices in there.”

Cultural and Technical Critique

The hosts critique the film's narrative coherence and technical aspects, pondering whether the spectacle outweighs the storytelling.

[77:54] Leo Laporte: “This is a really good example of using CGI very effectively for information.”

[84:02] Leo Laporte: “What does that mean?”

---

6. Additional Discussions and Banter

Domain Ownership and Personal Anecdotes

The conversation includes lighthearted banter about domain names the hosts own and humorous interactions related to managing their online presence.

[61:23] Jeff Jarvis: “Which one?”

[63:13] Paris Martino: "My son got JARV IS."

Mayonnaise Making Segment

In a humorous interlude, Leo shares his homemade mayonnaise recipe, leading to playful suggestions about unconventional ingredients like bananas.

[53:37] Leo Laporte: “I keep doing this podcast thing and you complain about the business being down as a cover.”

[54:20] Benito: “He says, have you had banana ketchup?”

---

7. Calls to Action and Closing Remarks

Engagement with Listeners

Jeff invites listeners with children using AI chatbots to reach out for discussions, emphasizing the show's commitment to addressing real-world tech impacts.

[149:07] Jeff Jarvis: “If you have a child that uses AI chat bots in any way, reach out to me. I'd love to chat.”

Upcoming Content and Community Building

The hosts promote their membership club, highlighting exclusive content and community features, while encouraging listeners to participate and support the podcast.

[155:00] Leo Laporte: “Check out our membership club. It’s a great club you want to be a member of and it helps us out.”

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jeff Jarvis on TikTok Lawsuit Strategy

  [04:43] Jeff Jarvis: "They're trying to basically sidestep Section 230 protections by using the principles of product liability to get these companies on negligent design."

• Paris Martineau on Algorithm Critique

  [14:50] Paris Martineau: "Show me the research that says that the algorithm does this to children."

• Leo Laporte on Satoshi Nakamoto

  [36:55] Paris Martineau: "You and kidnapping you and."

• Jeff Jarvis on OpenAI's Financial Troubles

  [67:20] Paris Martineau: "Because now the latest gambit from Altman is that he wants to structure OpenAI as a public benefit company."

• Leo Laporte on Antitrust and Google's Market Position

  [109:00] Paris Martineau: "...if we buy that. However, I think the other important case is in the App Store, which I think is going to hurt consumers."

---

Conclusion

In this episode, Leo Laporte, Jeff Jarvis, and Paris Martineau navigate through complex issues surrounding Big Tech, including legal challenges against Google and TikTok, the enigmatic identity of Satoshi Nakamoto, and the potential end of the .io domain due to geopolitical shifts. Their analysis is complemented by reviews of significant media like the Electric Money documentary and Coppola's Megalopolis. The episode also features engaging and humorous interludes, reinforcing the hosts' dynamic chemistry.

Listeners are encouraged to engage with the hosts through various platforms and consider supporting their membership offerings for exclusive content.

Transcript

[Leo Laporte]

It's time for Twink. This Week in Google. Paris Martino's here. Yay, she's back. Jeff Jarvis is here also. We'll talk about two big court decisions going against Google, one for the App Store and, well, one, it's the DOJ saying, I think we're going to break Google up. We'll see what happens with that. We'll also talk about the States, more than a dozen of them suing TikTok. And is Peter Todd really Satoshi Nakamoto? I have some thoughts. All that coming up next on tw podcasts you love from people you trust. This is twit. This is twig. This week in Google. Episode 789, recorded Wednesday, October 9th, 2024. Mauritius compliance. It's time for Twig this Week in Google a show. We talk about the latest news from the Google verse, which covers pretty much everything out there in the Internet cloud. Paris Martino's back. Hallelujah. From the Information.com. she writes for the weekend section talking about apparently children's flag football. So that's good. That'll be exciting.

[Jeff Jarvis]

You know, only the important topics.

[Leo Laporte]

She's covering online child safety. Yeah. Issues with, with the youths and online and all that. That's a good subject, isn't it? Boy, these days.

[Jeff Jarvis]

That it is great.

[Leo Laporte]

We missed you. Your friend Ed is a character and a half.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I love that I've introduced Ed into the twit universe and that he just can come on through Twitter. I feel like. Yeah, he tweeted his way into my heart and yours.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah, your nihilistic heart.

[Leo Laporte]

That's Jeff Jarvis, professor emeritus of journalism at the City University of New York. Well, we should say at the Craig Newmark Graduate School at the City University of New York, Emeritus. And Jeff has now created a kiosk in his office.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Well, the Web We Weave is officially out. Get your copy now.

[Paris Martino]

The whole set.

[Leo Laporte]

He did a tick tock where he opened the boxes. It's hysterical.

[Paris Martino]

This is.

[Leo Laporte]

Is that. Is that your first tick tock or is that.

[Paris Martino]

No, I did it before. You've done like.

[Leo Laporte]

It was cute. It was really cute.

[Jeff Jarvis]

A lot of dances on there.

[Leo Laporte]

So I have all the books. I do, but the latest is this the Web We Weave, soon to be a New York Times bestseller. Why we must reclaim the Internet from moguls, misanthropes and moral Panic.

[Paris Martino]

I got my first review and it's.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Moral panic, you say?

[Leo Laporte]

Who panned you?

[Paris Martino]

Oh, some old bitty.

[Leo Laporte]

Some old bitty.

[Paris Martino]

Bad feeling about this.

[Leo Laporte]

Hey, I didn't realize we still had that. I thought we left it.

[Jeff Jarvis]

We apparently have 20 of them. I think we didn't know that.

[Paris Martino]

We have versions.

[Jeff Jarvis]

We have a bunch of versions of that.

[Paris Martino]

Wow.

[Benito]

It's just I don't have a hotkey for it, so it's hard to hit on time.

[Leo Laporte]

You got to bring it up. Yeah. All I have is John, John Selenina going, hey, that's the only thing I brought.

[Paris Martino]

Hey.

[Leo Laporte]

Anyway, well, you don't deserve bad reviews. Although I would imagine the people who don't like it are the people who are lobbying for the shutdown of social media.

[Paris Martino]

That's what it is. Yes. Yes.

[Leo Laporte]

This week the, what is it? 13 states Attorney General decided that they're going to go after social media and shut her down.

[Paris Martino]

Well, tick tock before and tick tock's on the way out anyway, so you're wasting your breath.

[Leo Laporte]

They said it's like, it's like cigarettes. It's like nicotine and cigarettes. This social media, it's not causing cancer, you nitwits. No, you're nitwits.

[Paris Martino]

Moral entrepreneurship.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah, it was. Thirteen states and the District of Columbia sued TikTok on Tuesday arguing that the company deliberately designed the app to be addictive to children and that it has misrepresented it's the effectiveness of its content moderation efforts to consumers. And case this is kind of advancing a lot like a novel legal strategy. It's been finding purchase in courts around the US lately, which is they're trying, trying to basically sidestep Section 230 protections by using the principles of product liability to get these companies on negligent design or essentially just, you know, knowing that something in their product could harm consumers in some way and continuing to do it anyway.

[Leo Laporte]

Section 230 protects them against being sued for either moderating or not moderating the content. They can't be held liable for something other people post or that they take down because it, because it's bad.

[Jeff Jarvis]

But specifically what these suits are doing is they're targeting the TikTok algorithm in different parts of the TikTok platform, saying that, you know, the way that age gating was implemented, the process by which they determine like, are you under 13 or not, that it was designed in a defective way, that could have harmful impacts or that, you know, the algorithm could have harmful impacts on mental health of young users. And they knew that and continued to make those choices.

[Leo Laporte]

Anyway, let me channel Ed Zittrin from last week's show. Social media is killing children. The algorithm is like Nicotine. That's not a very good Ed Zitrian. But you get the idea that people very, very much feel that. And it feels. And by the way, that's what you're arguing against very much in the web we weave, Jeff.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah, but trying to actually find the Supreme Court up until now has again and again thrown down this argument. I can't find it in my own book. Should have an index. Thrown down. The idea that it does have an index. I know it does, but I can't.

[Leo Laporte]

Find it right away.

[Paris Martino]

Has thrown on the idea that censoring four children is okay because it's four children.

[Leo Laporte]

Right.

[Paris Martino]

It's always fundamentally insulting for children. Now, interestingly this week, if I may do just a little tiny detour. We'll come back to it.

[Leo Laporte]

No, no detour, Ray, because we're. This is going to be a fast moving, fast paced episode with many, many stories.

[Paris Martino]

Oh, okay. Unlike last week when we did two.

[Leo Laporte]

Yes.

[Paris Martino]

So sorry. I'll get rid of this.

[Leo Laporte]

I gotta laugh at your kiosk. That is the funniest thing ever. By the way, I hope that Glenn Fleischman never sees that you're using his books to prop up the web. That's how you keep it. That's how you keep it stable. Is that's the. That the type shift happens book that Glenn.

[Paris Martino]

Notice that it's right here because I'm using it for research for the.

[Leo Laporte]

Okay, so that's not really a show kiosk.

[Paris Martino]

My desk covered with books.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Oh, I love stacked printer paper, book cart.

[Paris Martino]

Then we have more books over here. I am working.

[Jeff Jarvis]

That's a proper desk.

[Paris Martino]

It is.

[Leo Laporte]

That is. That is really impressive.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Your camera is never going to be back in the right spot.

[Paris Martino]

No, it's not.

[Leo Laporte]

Fine.

[Paris Martino]

It's not. We can't even.

[Jeff Jarvis]

We can't see you. Goodbye, Jeff.

[Leo Laporte]

Wait a minute. Just in sympathy, I'm just going to lower my shot. Let's all sit a little lower now he's high. All we're going to do. Make up your mind, Mr. Jarvis.

[Paris Martino]

Just my mouth is what you want to see. So last week I think we actually.

[Leo Laporte]

I've fallen and I can't get up. Yeah, I know.

[Jeff Jarvis]

It's really hard to adjust from here. Oh, God. How do I do it?

[Leo Laporte]

Okay, the show's falling apart already in the first seven minutes. That's impressive.

[Paris Martino]

Where was I when I was so rudely aggressive?

[Leo Laporte]

We were talking about the fact that there are bad people out there who think that social media is addictive. And you talk about that in the Web we weave.

[Paris Martino]

And there are constitutional issues. So one of the AI bills that Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, signed in the last month or so was last week enjoined because it was against deepfakes being promoted in social media. And a guy did a deep fake of Kamala Harris doing something and he sued because he said it was a violation of his First Amendment rights to take it down. And the court agreed with him so far. So the First Amendment comes. It's more than Section 230. The First Amendment comes into play again and again and again.

[Jeff Jarvis]

But I'll play devil's advocate here for a minute because I've been talking to a lot of people. Ed Zitron. I know I can't do a British accent, otherwise I would. But for instance, let's take the Safe for Kids act. Safe stands for something I'm not remembering, which is something that passed in New York recently. One of the provisions in that is that accounts for children should by default have an algorithmic recommendation engine turned off and should instead display content from people. Like on Instagram, the kid follows chronologically. That's ostensibly because they think, oh, a problem a lot of kids have is, you know, regulating their time. One of the things that makes it worse is if you have a recommendation algorithm that keeps serving them really interesting content. I don't think that that's that bad.

[Leo Laporte]

Wait a minute. That's just saying social media is too much fun. It's too interesting. So please make it boring. And then we don't have to worry about it being addictive.

[Paris Martino]

The algorithm often, I mean, we set.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Up like alcohol and cigarettes.

[Leo Laporte]

I set up my Facebook because somebody told me, oh, you know, you can't, because I kept saying, oh, I want the. I want just the friend feed, the chronological feed. I set it up. It was the most horribly boring list of stuff. One guy posted half of it. It's not good. So what's wrong with a company saying, look, we want to, we want to give people what they want to see?

[Jeff Jarvis]

It's not for everybody. It's just for. I'm forgetting the exact age range, but let's say like under 16 year olds or under 13 year olds if they're using a product. I don't think that that's that bad of a policy to say, by default you have one feed. If you have parental permission, you can change to the normal one. That's fine. But on very specific kid accounts to have by default kind of increase operation standards.

[Leo Laporte]

I don't think that television Teletubbies is far too entertaining. We need to have it be droning teachers, telling them about stuff they need to know. I mean, I don't mind them banning sugar cereal ads in children's TV programming. And it would be okay to say no advertising.

[Paris Martino]

Algorithm is not. Is not bad. It is a choice of ranking. And ranking is made for many reasons. And I quote from a book just out the governor of New York, Kathy Hochul, who not only killed former congestion.

[Leo Laporte]

Former governor.

[Paris Martino]

No, she's still the governor.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, I was, I was wishful thinking. Oh yeah, I'm thinking of Eric Adams. Oh, no, he's still. Maybe.

[Paris Martino]

Well, we hope he's former soon though. Come on. Guess who may become our next mayor. But anyway, she said, do you understand how an algorithm works? It follows you, it preys on you.

[Leo Laporte]

No, it says classic panic crap. Yeah, no, and I know you're doing a little bit of devil's advocate, but that's my job.

[Paris Martino]

That's Leo's job.

[Leo Laporte]

But no, and I have said that myself, that the algorithm is the problem.

[Paris Martino]

You've lasted it in the past, but you're coming to learn.

[Leo Laporte]

Well, I just realized that with that all an algorithm is, is trying to make the content more interesting.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Well, that's a bit of an extrapolation. Really. What it's doing is optimizing for maximized engagement. It's optimizing for how long will it keep this user on this website? And I do think that there's some.

[Paris Martino]

Argument is a proxy for satisfaction.

[Leo Laporte]

Isn't that.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah, when you're talking about like a, you know, minor child. I think that there could be something to maybe having a different type of account for someone like under 16 or under 13 years old that perhaps doesn't optimize for that.

[Paris Martino]

Okay, I won't disagree with having a different account for a young person, but the algorithm is irrelevant to that. I think you got taken in by a cupcake, Ms. Martineau.

[Leo Laporte]

What?

[Paris Martino]

I must have missed that discussion before the show. And so then what are the criteria? What is it that you want to do with the account? Okay, but the algorithm is just ranking, making ranking decisions. That's all it's doing is saying. And as Leo said, it's often getting rid of the bad stuff, the boring stuff, the combative stuff. It depends on how it's written.

[Leo Laporte]

Algorithms do exist. We should make candy taste bad if children are going to eat it.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Well, you were just talking about how you'd be in support of no, like, high sugar ads being shown to kids. I feel like it's Kind of a similar vein of regulation. I mean let's take for example this New York law I just mentioned. I believe the provisions in it are, you know, some level of like minor kid accounts should by default have chronological feeds instead of having algorithmic as the default. You can switch it if you want. And the other one is notifications for I believe like under 13 year olds should be by default muted from 10pm to 6am Yeah, I don't have a problem. I don't think those are those. I don't think that's that big of a deal.

[Leo Laporte]

Shouldn't that be the parents job? Why does the government have to decide when your kids are getting notifications?

[Jeff Jarvis]

I mean why does the government decide anything? Why does the government regulate the airline industry? Why does the government decide whether we can advertise stuff to kids? Like I don't know the government.

[Leo Laporte]

I don't if, yeah, I'm gonna, I don't know if I can codify it but there is definitely stuff that it's an appropriate thing for the government to do and stuff that's appropriate things for the parent to do. I guess something the government tell companies is you have to give better parental controls to the parents. Like there should be a switch that says no notifications at night and the parents should be made aware of that. But the presumption really is oh, parents aren't going to care, they're not going to do anything. So we have to. And I bothers me a little bit.

[Paris Martino]

And it's red herring. Show me, show me the research that says that the algorithm does this to children. That's what I couldn't find. And, and the, you know, it's, it's the algorithm has now been demonized which is like demonizing math.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I mean, I agree. I think like even that Hill quote you just did, it's ridiculous the way that something as simple as an algorithm has been demonized. But I do think that there is something like to your question of like oh, it should be the parents responsibility. I agree. I was talking to kind of a big supporter of this recently, of these sort of regulations recently and I posed that question to her asking like well shouldn't all of this be parental responsibility? And she did bring up an interesting point I hadn't thought about which is like she, well one she gave an example of. She had three, has three kids. At one point she downloaded one of those software services. I think Bark is the name of one of them where essentially it's like spyware for your phone where it sits in the back and monitors every social media app, every texting thing, anything you have on there and you can set certain triggers and it'll alert you for all of it. And she did like whatever the basic bare minimum was. And she was like I was receiving 500 to a thousand alerts a day. She was like it was incredible. She's like I'm really privileged. So I was able to deal with that. But most people who do not who you know maybe work two jobs probably can't. And right now these social media companies don't seem to have parental settings in place to make it easy for parents. Facebook only recently or Meta only recently came out this with Instagram. Yeah, let's do that. The other thing I think is structure to have. No, I agree. The other thing I think is notable that she brought up that I hadn't thought about is she's like for a lot of parents she knows they don't allow their kids to have any access to personal devices like phones or computers. But that doesn't work because nowadays if you have a kid in elementary school they're going to be sent home with an iPad school issued or a computer in starting a middle school, a Chromebook. I mean and you might say and I mean I think the gasp is somewhat warranted but also it's incredibly difficult to then police your child's social media use if they have a computer 247.

[Leo Laporte]

If the kids are be given computers from the schools it's. It's incumbent on the schools to do the right thing and make sure those. Those are not introducing stuff into the house. I don't. I think whoever provides the object should be responsible for making sure the object does no harm. What about this example? Explain to me how this is different from let's take the sugar out of candy if it's sold to people under 13 because he's clearly bad for them. It causes tooth decay. It's. We're learning more and more the sugar is actually a poison. We should. We should put take sugar out of candy. I mean only for people under who are underage.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I don't disagree that that could be an argument.

[Leo Laporte]

You think we should.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I don't think we should for any. I don't have any strong personal beliefs on either of these subjects. I I think the difference is that it has become the social media issue has become such a big issue for parents in recent years that they're mobilizing on it. Meanwhile sugar isn't something that's incited like.

[Paris Martino]

Mobilization are exploiting this and making More fear and not using research. The problem. So much of this, I mean, for a lot of kids who feel very lonely and very depressed, there's a lot of research that I write about in the book which says that it makes them feel better. They know that they're not alone in the world. It's a way that they have friends. Ed last week was talking about how he was very sad, really, about how he had no friends, none at all. And the Internet, time and time again, is a place where kids can see that they're not alone, that they find other people who sympathize with them. That is an important human connection that's being cut off because of a fear of a screen or an algorithm. It's pure moral panic.

[Leo Laporte]

There's also the argument that this could.

[Paris Martino]

Be a different one.

[Benito]

Houston, we have a problem.

[Leo Laporte]

It's also the case that focusing on this distracts from.

[Paris Martino]

Yes.

[Leo Laporte]

Real solutions, like have. Make sure you fund mental health experts in every school, that you fund mental health centers, that you pay attention to what's going on for kids. There's a lot of things we could do that we don't do. It's very easy to blame. Just say, well, it's big tech. We can fix it. Let's just ban them, and then we'll be all fine. And I think that that's really a shortcut that unfortunately leaves behind real solutions. So there's also. There's also that. Anyway, it's a good conversation.

[Paris Martino]

Yes. Giving.

[Leo Laporte]

I guess we'll let courts decide, because the courts are so smart that they should be able to figure.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah, obviously they're so smart. I mean, and I think it's a good conversation to have because I, you know, I fall on both sides of the spectrum, depending on what the day is.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, me too.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I think I can see, you know, benefits in both sides. And I think it's going to be kind of interesting to see how this shakes out.

[Leo Laporte]

I was a laissez faire parent. My. You know, even when my kids were. I mean, now they're 30 and 32, so that, you know, they're older than you, Paris. So they, you know, obviously didn't have access to the same social media you do or kids today have. But there was even.

[Paris Martino]

And then.

[Leo Laporte]

So should they play video games? Should you limit that to too much? You'd limit screen time, et cetera, et cetera. And I was pretty laissez faire. I figured, well, we'll let them figure it out. And I. We would have discussions, like, if you see something online that upsets you, Please come to us and talk about it. We're never going to yell at you for seeing it. We want to talk about it and that kind of thing. They survived. So my ang. My inclination is laissez faire. But I'll tell you, the other thing is I think parents should have whatever tools they need to keep their kids safe. It's up to the parent. And that's why I'm not crazy about government getting involved. I think government could mandate the tools. That's fine.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah. I mean, I do think that there is something to the argument, though, that, I mean, let's. For, let's take for example, these new teen accounts that Meta just rolled out for Instagram that happened Solution a week or two ago, but they. I don't know whether that's a good solution, but they had features in there that I, when I saw it was like, what, you didn't have this beforehand? To where, you know, if you're a child who's told, Meta, I'm 13 now, your account by default, doesn't let any stranger that wants to talk, like, connect with you and message you. You know, I think. And now there are stronger supports for a parent wants to have parental controls on that kid's account, they can. And I think those are both good things. And they only have come because Meta has been bullied for years, like months and months and years by angry parents and threatened with serious legislation and regulation by state and federal lawmakers.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. Remember when the Senate committee made Mark Zuckerberg stand up and apologize to the parents in the, in the gallery, and.

[Paris Martino]

Now he says he's done apologizing. That was. That also backfires because rather than having a cooperative discussion about this, it became so combative. And he just says, ask.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, maybe that's really what we need, is this sense that we are all coming from a point of goodwill and that we're trying to find a solution that's best for our kids.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I agree. But I would also say, I mean, something. Something that struck me when I was reading the. It was a couple weeks ago, the Department of Justice sued TikTok for various violations of COPPA, the Children Online Privacy and Protection act, and a different agreement. And it detailed in. It went into great detail in the complaint of the lawsuit, all the various ways in which TikTok had been deficient in stopping children under the age of 13 from making accounts as adults. And one of the things that they mentioned was that TikTok has, I guess, some form on their website where if You're a parent and you're like, my 8 year old has a TikTok account and I want it to be deleted. TikTok system for responding to those requests was so deficient that the vast, vast, vast majority of requests from parents went nowhere. Even if parents did everything correctly, filled out all the forms, TikTok would ignore it, and in some ways built a system specifically to keep those accounts around and active for the kids when parents wanted to get them taken down, be fixed.

[Leo Laporte]

Although all that's to means is the TikTok is operating at the same level as our government does.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I mean, yeah. So I think that that's probably why.

[Leo Laporte]

The United States government.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

I have to say my, I really, it hurts me a little bit to think of banning TikTok because of my son who. So one of the things we've been talking about. Benino said this a couple of weeks ago and it really sunk in with me. If you're going to start a new project, a podcast or YouTube video or whatever, you need to put it somewhere where there's a. Where there's an algorithm, where there's a discovery engine, because discovery is impossible in a world where there are millions of creators. You need to put it somewhere where an algorithm can promote you. My son started making sandwiches on TikTok and paid attention to what the algorithm promoted and what it didn't promote, and worked hard to make sure that his videos appealed to the algorithm, presuming that the algorithm was doing what it does because it appealed and turned to people. Right. It's watching likes and so forth, and he's been able to build a pretty darn good career out of it. I'm holding up his cookbook as I talking about that, which is available in bookstores everywhere. Five salt napkin of salt. Napkin Salt. Hank. A five napkin situation by Henry laporte. Buy it at bookstores everywhere. But that is, I think, 100% owed to the marriage of Tick Tock's algorithm and his ability to create stuff that fit the algorithm. Without that, he's just one of a thousand or 100,000 tick tock chefs or YouTube chefs.

[Paris Martino]

Yep.

[Leo Laporte]

That's why I'm, I'm kind of, I feel a certain loyalty to Tick Tock and if they're doing stuff wrong, they need to work on it. Obviously, if they, you know, parents should be able to say to Tick Tock, hey, this is a kid, you know, block his account, whatever that that needs to be fixed. Obviously, I'm not against that, that. Let's take a little Break there. I'm sorry, there's lots of news. Let's take a little break.

[Paris Martino]

Yes.

[Leo Laporte]

Because we now know who Satoshi Nakamoto is and may amaze you. You don't. I'm gonna argue for this one, but I'll tell you. We'll talk about it in just a second. Also, if you've got one of the.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Arguments for him being satoshi is that they share the same pizza top favorite pizza topic. I'll just put that out there.

[Leo Laporte]

Be patient. We'll get to that. Also, the do domain is gonna disappear in all likel. What are you going to do then? Google IO. All of that and more coming up in just a little bit on this week in Google. Paris Martino's back. We're so glad to see her. And by the way, coordinating the monstera sweater and glasses and the. And the green lighting behind you. Very nicely done. Very nicely done. Are your parents in the. In the wake of the.

[Jeff Jarvis]

They are thankfully not in the park where it's gonna be hit by the hurricane. Yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

Our deepest thoughts and. And good wishes to the people in North Carolina and Florida and the areas affected by first Helene and now. What's his name?

[Jeff Jarvis]

Milton.

[Leo Laporte]

Milton.

[Jeff Jarvis]

It truly looks like it's going to be devastating. I mean, the Tampa Bay area hasn't been directly hit by a hurricane in a hundred years.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah, it's been rough. Spared time and time and time again. And it's time looks like it's come.

[Leo Laporte]

Did you see the amazing animation the weather channel did about storm surges?

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah. Yeah, it was really good.

[Leo Laporte]

That was. That was a really good example of. You know, normally I don't like this kind of.

[Paris Martino]

Show off.

[Leo Laporte]

Show off the effects. But let me just. I probably get taken down for this. I don't care. It's so good. Just show a little bit of it. The anchor is. I'm not playing the audio. Maybe that'll help. Is, you know, standing in a street with a car and the storm is coming. And he's describing what a storm surge would look like. And he says, well, here's a three foot storm surge. This is very. It's six feet. This is very effective in really showing what people who are deciding to so called ride it out are going to face. With a nine, that's nine feet. You have very little chance of survival. And we're talking some areas.

[Paris Martino]

It's not just that you're on the second floor. The house goes down.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, the whole thing's gone.

[Benito]

And they're even showing all the stuff that's floating in that water.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, that's the other problem, of course. So I thought that was a really good example of using CGI very effectively for information. Good job, Weather Channel. Please don't take us down. All right, we'll come back with more in just a bit. You're watching this week in Google, brought to you today by US Cloud. I had a great conversation with these guys. I had, I have to admit, I hadn't heard of them. They heard the number. I should have. They're the number one. Number one Microsoft Unified Support replacement. Now, a lot of people use Microsoft, a lot of enterprises use Microsoft for their support. It might be coming with your license and so forth, but it isn't really a pay as you go deal. You buy an, you know, you just kind of buy it whether you're going to use it or not. And it is maybe not the most effective for your business. That's why so many people now turn to US Cloud, the global leader in third party Microsoft Enterprise support. They don't say it, but I'm going to say it. Better support than Microsoft for less supporting 50 of the Fortune 500 switching to US Cloud can save your business 30 to 50% on a true comparable replacement for Microsoft Unified Support. But it's more than that. US Cloud supports the entire Microsoft stack 24, 7, 365. They respond faster, they resolve tickets quicker. For clients all around the world. You're always going to talk to real humans based in the US and even more importantly, you're going to talk to engineers who have the knowledge and the skill set. They go the extra mile to bring in the best brains so that they're there for you when you need help. Expert level engineers with an average of 14.9 years in the business and that's for break fix or DSE. 100% domestic teams, your data and your call. And all of your business never leaves the U.S. and here's something Microsoft will not do. Financially backed SLAs on response time, initial ticket response average under four minutes. Fast help. Good help at a cost that's lower than Microsoft. In 2023, 94% of U.S. cloud's clients reported saving 1/3 or more when switching from Microsoft Unified Support to US Cloud. So you save. But it's also better Support. From Fortune 500 companies and large health systems to major financial institutions, even federal agencies, US Cloud ensures that vital Microsoft systems are working for over 6 million users globally every day. I'm talking big Brands, the Trust, US Cloud, Caterpillar, HP, Aflac, Dun and Bradstreet, Under Armour, KeyBank. Even the IT folks at Gartner have chosen US Cloud for their Microsoft support needs. It's kind of a no brainer. Costs less Check. Better support Check. Faster support check. Financial SLAs check. One director of information technology says. And within an hour, US Cloud responded with, I want to say four engineers. So not only did they bring the right guys to the call, they brought the cavalry. I just felt like, wow, that was amazing. That was unlike anything I'd experienced with Microsoft in my eight years of being with Premier. We made the right choice. This is the company. And by the way, when it comes to compliance, no one gets it more than US Cloud. ISO, gdpr, ESG compliance. Not just regulatory requirements, but strategic imperatives for US Cloud that drive operational efficiency, legal compliance, risk management and corporate reputation. These standards foster trust and loyalty with your customers, with your stakeholders. They attract investment. They ensure long term sustainability and success in a very competitive global market. You want US Cloud? Visit uscloud.com book a call today. These guys are fantastic. I was so glad I called them. Find out how much your team could save us Cloud. Call them today. Uscloud.com Book a call. Get faster Microsoft support for less from the best US Cloud. We're so glad to welcome them to this week in Google and to the whole twit network. I think this is the first time we've talked about them. Really, really great company offering an amazing service. All right, back we come to Twig and this was. I forced myself to stay up late last night watching Electric Money, which is a new HBO documentary from the same guy who did the QAnon documentary. And I think quite credibly unmasked Q. Did you watch? Yeah, yeah.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I mean I think it. He quite credibly unmasked Q because the Q, the, the Q. The Q kid. Important part of unmasking Q was going back through old 4chan forum posts and 8gen forum posts and I think that he and his team are an expert at that kind of digital research. I'm not sure if the same is true with she talk Nakamoto.

[Leo Laporte]

So that's the Electric Money is about. Or Money Electric I guess is the name is about bitcoin. It's, you know, I'm watching it before they even start going into well, who is Satoshi Nakamoto? And thinking this is very, very positive about bitcoin doesn't really mention a lot of the consequences of bitcoin. Instead kind of sells bitcoin. Cullen Hoback, the filmmaker though I Think really intended it all along to be unmask the creator of bitcoin who has been mysterious since 2012. He's dropped off the Internet, disappeared. He wrote the paper that was the, you know, the bitcoin is based on. He created what they call the genesis block, the first block in the blockchain and is thought to have a million, one million bitcoins in his wallet.

[Paris Martino]

So hang on right there for a second.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah.

[Paris Martino]

Like Alexander Hamilton creates a U.S. treasury and doesn't keep a million dollars for himself for doing so. Right. There seems to be granted whoever this is hasn't cashed any of it in. But it really gives me a bad taste to think that someone creates a currency but does so to that tremendous personal advantage.

[Leo Laporte]

Well, yeah, good point. Like it would might be a pyramid scheme. Like maybe. Yeah, I mean they don't debate that. I mean they don't go into it either. But I agree with you. I mean there are definitely things about bitcoin that are kind of.

[Paris Martino]

I thought when it started I thought this is cool and blockchain is really cool technology and I kind of went along with it. And of course the, the, the, the, the culture of the crypto bros. Is enough to turn you off on anything. But it really is an interference with economic systems in a way that isn't regulated really. And it's disturbing. So the one hand, why do I care who Satoshi is? But the other hand, I guess maybe we should.

[Leo Laporte]

Well, if he has what would make him a 60 billionaire now and potentially a trillionaire down the road worth of bitcoin now of course if he were to cash even a significant, any significant part of that in it would probably undermine bitcoin entirely. Right. And the, and the confidence in it, which might explain why he hasn't. There's some people have also thought that he might be dead. Right. That, that. Or maybe it's not one person. Maybe it's a couple of people.

[Paris Martino]

Leo, I've got it. I've got it. You've talked about your drive with your bitcoin on it.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah.

[Paris Martino]

And how you can't open it up.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah.

[Paris Martino]

I think that's just been a confession that you.

[Leo Laporte]

There's a million bitcoin on my drive.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah. You keep doing this podcast thing and you complain about the business being down as a cover.

[Leo Laporte]

It is interesting. They point out in the documentary there is a way to burn bitcoin publicly in such a way that everybody would know you no longer have access to it. And that has not happened. The person he actually I think. And this is maybe just me, I think he, in effect, said two people are Satoshi Nakamoto. The two people that. But the person that he. By the way, both of them deny it. As. By the way, as one would if one were Satoshi Nakamoto. Who knows what the United States government or any other government might do to.

[Paris Martino]

You and kidnapping you and.

[Leo Laporte]

Or not to mention terrorists who would want your bitcoin, and on and on and on. So I don't blame whoever it is for being anonymous and for denying it. He. I think now you see, you watched all the way to the end, because at the end of the documentary, there is this. I think it's become the Colin Hoback trademark. He gets the two guys together in, like, a deserted factory in Slovenia. Because Peter Todd, who he thinks is Satoshi Nakamoto, is a caver. He likes. To a Torontonian. He was very. If he is Satoshi Nakamoto, he would have written bitcoin's seminal paper at the age of 22. The biggest piece of evidence is very flimsy, which is that Satoshi on the. On the forums before Nakamoto disappeared, Satoshi posted on the bitcoin forum before it was. Even before bitcoin was eve. The paper came out kind of some. He was thinking out loud. And all of a sudden, this guy Peter Todd, who's never been around, he's only made one other post, basically finishes the sentence in a way that shows a deep technical understanding of what the issues are. And then both Satoshi Nakamoto and Peter Todd disappear. Colin Hoback's theory is this, that Peter Todd is Satoshi was posting a satoshi, accidentally logged back in using another account, posted and then went, oh, shoot, both.

[Jeff Jarvis]

And then never deleted it.

[Leo Laporte]

Well, never deleted it. And Todd says, well, why didn't I delete it? And I think you could make a credible case that deleting it would just. Nothing ever is deleted from the Internet, right? So that deleting it would just call attention to it.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I don't know that the forum posts are that indicative of it being the same person. The. The message. I'll read the Satoshi message here, and then I'll read the Peter Todd reply. There would need to be some changes in the bitcoin coin miner side also to make the possibility to accept a double spend into the transaction pool, but only strictly if the inputs and outputs match and the transaction fee is higher. And then he, you know, as one other sentence about the transaction fee. And then Peter Todd, of course, to be specific, the inputs and outputs can't match exactly. If the second transaction has a transaction fee, I don't think that that is some secret, forbidden knowledge.

[Leo Laporte]

No, it's not.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Transaction fee would make something not match.

[Leo Laporte]

I will add one more piece to this. What they're talking about is a pay for fee piece that was not included in the original paper. But Peter Todd later wrote and added to the bitcoin the ability to pay extra to get a faster transaction. So Peter Todd did in fact implement that piece of bitcoin later. I. To me, the thing. You're right, it's flimsy, to say the least. I'm watching it, though, and he's getting real squirrely. And I'm kind of thinking he looks damn guilty. I mean, he reacted exactly as you would expect somebody who was pretending not to be Satoshi Nakamoto would act. Now, the other person standing next to him was Adam Back, who is the chief executive of a bitcoin development company called Blockstream. The only other person mentioned by name in the bitcoin paper, the only person who is thought to know who Nakamoto is. In fact, he's been holding on to email and email exchange between him and Satoshi Nakamoto for years, saying, well, it's not my mind to reveal. I think personally, it's not just Peter Todd. I think it's Peter Todd plus Adam Back, who had written something called Hash Coin a few years earlier, which was kind of an early bitcoin, an early cryptocurrency. I honestly think that the most credible answer is that this kid, Peter Todd, who was a genius, who is also, by the way, nobody in the bitcoin community wants him to be Satoshi Nakamoto. He is pretty widely disliked. I think it's him and Adam.

[Paris Martino]

How crypto boyish is he?

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, well, he. But he's not, though, as a bitcoin bro, which is interesting. He's not the. You know, and he doesn't. I don't think he ever cashed in a lot of bitcoin or anything. I think he and Adam Back did it together. They had the. They certainly had the means, the. The technical ability to do it. Todd Hoback did catch Todd lying about his skills in C. Todd says on camera, I don't know C, but in fact wrote an entire system in C some years earlier. I think they got him now. What does it matter? Probably not at all. But it's fascinating and it's exactly the kind of person the bitcoin community wouldn't. Would not like it's. Not he's no magical brilliant Dark knight created a world changing cryptocurrency. He was just some annoying kid who was really skilled. I don't know. I like it. I, I'm going with it. Peter Todd and and I'm going with Adam Beck was right there and did part of it.

[Paris Martino]

Paris, your, your best argument against is pizza?

[Jeff Jarvis]

Well, I think that one of their, one of the arguments in the documentary was based on the account, the satoshi account saying that its favorite pizza topping is pineapple and jalapeno and that that also being Peter Todd's favorite pizza topping.

[Paris Martino]

Craig Newmark likes pineapple and jalapenos.

[Leo Laporte]

Pineapple and jalapeno is not completely normal. That's not a very common I mean.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I don't think, I think that it's probably pretty likely that someone who is maybe involved in the early days of bitcoin then when confronted in a warehouse with an entire camera crew and a director accusing you in hours long interviews of being Satoshi Nakamoto that you're going to get defensive and act weird. I also think, I mean I don't know any of the stuff about the C but I could think of conceivable explanations to why someone would say they don't know programming language. Perhaps they were referring to, you know, not knowing it that well or they don't really think no, he did it.

[Leo Laporte]

As part of a nigh denial saying I I couldn't have written I don't know anything about C. I mean I honestly think it's really exactly what you would say if you were Satoshi Nakamoto started contributing to code in 2012 right at the beginning I honestly feel like well look at we've seen a lot of specious announcements including Newsweek's appalling announcement that they discovered Satoshi Nakamoto as a cover story which to my knowledge they never retracted did they ever was it was completely wrong. So it could be just another one of these. Who is Cullen Hoback? I mean is it enough to say well I found out who Q was. I don't know if that's enough. I I, it just rang quite true to me.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I mean I think you just need more for it to be like a smoking gun.

[Leo Laporte]

Right?

[Paris Martino]

I don't much care.

[Leo Laporte]

And and does it matter is the is the bottom line. I mean honestly, he has Peter Todd for whatever you think of him has perfectly good reasons not to be it outed and I respect that because what.

[Paris Martino]

Does he do for a living now.

[Leo Laporte]

He is on on X He says he is a crypto chromancer and web pie developer.

[Benito]

Hey, this is Benito. So, like, what. Why this does matter is because that if this person is Satoshi Nakamoto, then they essentially have control of the bitcoin market.

[Leo Laporte]

They more than that, they have control of a world economy.

[Benito]

Exactly. So that's what makes it important.

[Leo Laporte]

He says Peter Todd said in a post, and they talk about this in the documentary, that he did a very hard thing. He burned a bunch of bitcoin. But there's no way to prove that because he didn't do it in a way that was provable. And so, I mean, I've burned my bitcoin by forgetting my password. You can lose your bitcoin very easily. Steve Gibson did it by throwing his heart, erasing his hard drive. I mean, that's easy to do, but there's no provable. That's not provable. There is a provable way to do it, and he did not choose to do that. That raises some big issues. If he controls a million bitcoin, he could collapse bitcoin.

[Paris Martino]

He.

[Leo Laporte]

And there are a number of nations is very active, not just El Salvador, but a number of other nations that want to use bitcoin as their currency. Yeah, I think you're right, Benito. There is. There is some. But what are you going to do? You can't. If you can't prove it and if you could, let's say you could prove it and it really is him, then what?

[Jeff Jarvis]

Then what? I mean, I think also the question is like, if he or someone else is satoshi, what are they going to do with that? Like, you can't start moving bitcoin out of your account, otherwise the whole market's going to catch on fire and people are going to freak out because satoshi hasn't been active and years. Right. I don't know. I guess maybe as a national security ask said. Okay, now that you say that, actually, I will bring up. There was a time about a year ago where for weeks every info, every reporter at the information was getting these emails, signal messages, calls to our personal phone, LinkedIn, DMS, Twitter, DMS from some guy being like, I've figured out who Satoshi Nakamoto is. You've got to listen to us. And none of us really replied. And then afterwards he would call and email again and be like, I figured it out. It's Elon Musk. And his proof was very similar to yours in the sense like both Elon and Satoshi use two spaces. After a period, Satoshi Posted in a time zone that was similar to where Elon was during some of those months. Both Satoshi and Elon have used the words bloody in messages and things like that. And that's. That's what this documentary sounds like to me is it is more wishful thinking of a loon.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, I'm going with. It's Peter, Todd and Adam back. But again, I don't know what you do with it. You can't prove it, so I don't know what you do with it. It's a very interesting topic. Peter, if you're listening, come on the show and tell us why. It's complete nonsense. His den. His denial was not that credible. All right, let's. Let's see. Should we. Yeah, let's take another break. And then I do want to talk about.IO this is. This could be a little bit of an issue, and it kind of. It shows a little bit of a weakness in the whole domain name system thing.

[Paris Martino]

Every system has weaknesses.

[Leo Laporte]

Every. Okay, thank you.

[Paris Martino]

We're all human.

[Leo Laporte]

Professor Jeff Jarvis, ladies and gentlemen. We need him. He's the resident intellectual here. Of course. Paris Martino is the resident young person, a genius here.

[Jeff Jarvis]

And nihilist.

[Leo Laporte]

A nihilist. Self described nihilist. I never knew that till Jeff told me you were a nihilist.

[Jeff Jarvis]

We've talked about that on this show. Perhaps like three or four different episodes. Leo.

[Leo Laporte]

Maybe I didn't believe it. I knew you liked Nietzsche. I didn't know that you were a nihilist.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I mean, I would say I'm a soft nihilist in the sense that, like, everything is meaningless, but that means we have to derive our own meaning from it.

[Benito]

I mean, optimistic nihilism is an actual philosophy.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

Okay, good.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I would say optimistic nihilist.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, you kind of. Actually, that's kind of my philosophy, which is everything is meaningless and everything is something.

[Jeff Jarvis]

To a person. Yeah. If you want it to mean something.

[Leo Laporte]

It'S up to you. Yeah. And I'm just the dunderhead in the middle. I'm the. I'm the baloney in the genius sandwich. Our show today, brought to you by. And he knows the mayonnaise, but he knows the mustard. I was going to say the mustard. Yeah. The show today. Well, mustard on one side, bananas on the other side. The. Oh, I just invented a new topping. Bananas. I might have to make that. Our show today, brought to you by 1Password. I'm going to make that tonight and I'll let you know how it comes out. 1Password is a Great. By the way, company who has a new product called Extended Access Management that solves a really, I think, fundamental problem in business. Let me ask this rhetorical question because I know the answer. Do your end users always work on company owned devices? Of course. Right. And IT approved apps never bring their own device into work, never use their own apps, right? Wrong. So how do you keep your company's data safe when it's sitting on all those unmanaged apps and devices? That's why 1Password came up with Extended Access Management. 1Password Extended Access Management helps you secure every sign in for every app on every device. It solves the problems traditional IAM and MDM cannot touch. Imagine your company security like the quad of a college campus, right? You got these nice brick paths, winding little brick paths leading from ivy covered building to ivy covered building. So pretty. Those are the company owned devices, the buildings and the IT approved apps, the paths and the managed employee identities walking up and down those paths. Then in the real world, there are the paths people actually use. The shortcuts worn through the grass. You know, the actual straightest line from building A to building B. Those are unmanaged devices, shadow IT apps, non employee identities on your network like contractors. Right. So most security tools just assume they only work on those happy brick paths. That's, that's where they work. But a lot of security problems, I say almost all of them take place on the shortcuts. 1Password Extended Access Management is the first security solution that takes all those unmanaged devices and apps and identities and puts them under your control. It ensures that every user credential is strong and protected, every device is known and healthy, and every app is visible. It's security for the way we work today. And it's now generally available to companies with Okta and Microsoft Entrance. And by the way, good on you that you're using Okta and Entra. That's fantastic. And now this takes it to the next step. So not only are the people authenticated, but the devices, the software as well. It's in beta for Google Workspace customers too. You'll be happy to know that. Also, here's the deal. Check it out. 1Password.com twig that's the number. 1p a s s w o r d.com twig There's a lot of information there about how it works. I think it'll be very clear instantly why you need this. 1Password.com Twig we thank them so much for their support of this week in Google. I have to go because I'VE just invented banana bananas and I have to go make some bananas.

[Paris Martino]

I don't think Hank is going to approve. I don't think.

[Leo Laporte]

I think Hank would. So you take.

[Paris Martino]

It'll be bad for his reputation now.

[Jeff Jarvis]

If his father could be a vegan mayonnaise alternative.

[Leo Laporte]

Well, my man, I guess you could. So, my man. I make. I don't ever buy mayonnaise anymore. I make it's easy with an inversion blender. Immersion blender. All you have to do, it's. It's. You'd put two. I use the Serious eats recipe. Two eggs. You put the whole egg in. You don't need water, just the egg. Two eggs. You put a tablespoon of Dijon mustard in there, some salt, some lemon and then oil. I use avocado oil. You want to use kind of an oil. Doesn't have a lot of flavor. Now you whip it together and you got mayonnaise. That's mayonnaise. That's basically mayonnaise.

[Paris Martino]

Does it keep in the refrigerator?

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. And it's fresh and delicious. You know, don't make more. Don't make more than you're going to need in a week or two.

[Paris Martino]

Oh, okay.

[Leo Laporte]

It's not a giant jar at Romans stay for years.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

Because there's other stuff in it. But this. No, but this is really good. It's delicious. And you could put garlic in it. But you could also put a mushed up banana in there and you'd have bananas.

[Jeff Jarvis]

That's true. Not a people could do that.

[Leo Laporte]

But a peanut butter and banana sandwich.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I will say sometimes people substitute bananas for eggs in recipes.

[Leo Laporte]

So you could leave the egg.

[Jeff Jarvis]

So you could replace the egg with a banana and that could be bananas and somehow bonito.

[Paris Martino]

What?

[Benito]

He says, have you had banana ketchup?

[Leo Laporte]

No, no.

[Paris Martino]

Never heard of.

[Leo Laporte]

Is that a Filipino.

[Benito]

Filipino thing?

[Paris Martino]

Yeah.

[Benito]

Banana ketchup is delicious.

[Leo Laporte]

See, and I'm thinking for the holidays you could put a little pumpkin spice in and then you have pumpkin spice bananas.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Wow.

[Leo Laporte]

Now you know where salt Hank gets his genius. No, he would never ever make anything like that.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I don't think you should just text him bananas?

[Paris Martino]

One word.

[Leo Laporte]

I'm gonna do that right now.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah, do it right now.

[Benito]

I would actually love his opinion on banana ketchup.

[Leo Laporte]

Okay.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I like suggesting you strange things to text your son.

[Paris Martino]

Word Villa Manila banana ketchup.

[Leo Laporte]

He says, why is he always on Wednesday I get weird texts from you.

[Benito]

It's not a weird thing in the Philippines. It's like normal banana ketchup is on the table in restaurants.

[Leo Laporte]

It makes perfect sense. It's a tropical ketchup. So I just texted him one word. Bananas. We'll see what happens.

[Paris Martino]

Question mark. Do you put a question mark?

[Leo Laporte]

No.

[Paris Martino]

Oh, exclamation point.

[Leo Laporte]

Yes. There's no question, my friend.

[Jeff Jarvis]

How did you spell bananas?

[Leo Laporte]

I guessed B, A, N, A, N, A, I, S, E. All right, right, sure. So what does I.O. stand for? Do you know? Trivia question.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Indian Ocean.

[Paris Martino]

Ocean.

[Leo Laporte]

Very good.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I know because it's been in the news recently.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, yeah, it's the country code domain.

[Paris Martino]

Except for the show.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, I knew once, but I didn't remember. So it's the country code domain for the Chagos Islands, which is the British Indian Ocean territory. Disputed territory. For a long time, Mauritius said, that's ours. The British government said, it's ours and took it. In 1814, the French ceded control of the Chagos Islands and the island country of Mauritius to the British. When the British took over, the islands remained a dependency of Mauritius. In 1965, the UK gave sovereignty to Mauritius, but said, we're going to keep the Chagos Islands and make it the British Indian Ocean territory. That's in 1965, in fact, and this is horrible. The UK forcibly removed the indigenous people, the Chagossian people, so the US could build a military. The US US could build a military base on the island. They displaced 1500 people. That might sound a little familiar to you, Benito.

[Benito]

Colonialism.

[Leo Laporte]

Colonialism. Eventually, the Chagos Islands were given the.IO country code that was in 1997. By who else? The, you know, IANA.

[Paris Martino]

Even though they were still. They were a British protectorate, but they were independent enough to have their own country code.

[Leo Laporte]

Right. Well, that's not unusual. Right? Canada is part of the Commonwealth, but it has its own. Anyway, the British government granted rights to sell IO domains to the Internet Computer Bureau. The ICB countries government receives revenue for any sites that register with their country code domain. For instance, Anguilla, which has the country code AI. Nice one. Right. Expect to make 25 to 30 million dollars from websites registered with the AI domain yet. Tuvalu is TV. I have a TV domain. Twit TV is our domain. Right. Unfortunately, the British government collected some of the revenue and didn't give it to the Chagossian people. In 2020, they submitted a claim to gain ownership, which they said of what they said was a $50 million property. This is from the Verge. Uh, but the UK has now finalized an agreement giving the Chagos Islands back to the Mauritians to Mauritius. A move, by the way, that Chagossians said the government didn't even consult them on ending the British Indian Ocean territory. It's all Mauritius now. And here's the problem. It also potentially ends the IO domain. The IO domain, why does it end it?

[Paris Martino]

Why can't isn't it just agree to keep going?

[Leo Laporte]

The Internet Assigned Numbers Authority, the successor to icann, IANA has a process for retiring old country code domains within five years. This was after su, which was the Soviet Union's domain, kind of lingered even though the Soviet Union had gone on. In fact, it was used, apparently, according to the Verge, by cyber criminals. So I'm shocked. No, every domain is used by cybercriminals.

[Paris Martino]

Especially what associated with the Soviet Union.

[Leo Laporte]

Soviet Union, good. Since then, IANA has also had to recover the Yugoslavian domain. Why you. Although it went on for a few years after the country was broken up.

[Paris Martino]

But if Cholos was part of the British Empire, couldn't it just as easily be part of Mauritius, but independent enough.

[Leo Laporte]

To have and still have a dot IO?

[Paris Martino]

Yeah, Human beings can decide these things. Yeah.

[Benito]

Can we just decide to make it not a country thing and just a regular domain?

[Leo Laporte]

The fact that Google uses it for Google I O. Anyway, Emma Roth, who did a very, very good piece on this, explaining it all, and the Verge writes, for now, it's still too early to tell what would become of the IO domain, whether it will go through a similar transitional period like why you, or if IANO will let the Chagossians keep it because they say, we want it. We don't want the Brits to have it. We want the money. The Verge reached out to Identity Digital, the domain registrar that previously obtained rights to sell IO domains, and IANA for information about IO's future, but we haven't heard back.

[Benito]

OK, so there it is. It's the money.

[Leo Laporte]

It's the money. Because the Chagossians say, wait a minute, we make. Just like, by the way, Tuvalu is sinking. Tuvalu will, in the next few decades disappear under the ocean.

[Paris Martino]

There goes your domain too.

[Leo Laporte]

Well, but the Tuvalans would very much like to move to another island and keep tv. Yeah, because it's a lot of money. I don't know. There are a lot of dot IO people who use dot IO out there, including my bookmarking service, Raindrop IO. It's a big deal to change a domain.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah. Especially a really popular one.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. Okay, well, that's that story. What do you guys get?

[Jeff Jarvis]

Do you have any.IO domains, Leo?

[Leo Laporte]

I do, Yes. I think I do.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Which one?

[Paris Martino]

Question. Yes? How many domains do you.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I was going to say, how much do you spend a year on domains?

[Leo Laporte]

Hundreds of dollars.

[Paris Martino]

Didn't you clean them out somewhat?

[Leo Laporte]

No, why would I do that?

[Benito]

None of them are worth anything. Is any.

[Leo Laporte]

None of them are worth a thing. I still have tunic time.com and fancy pants dot com. We've talked about this before.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah, that's right. I had s widget spelled out swid.

[Jeff Jarvis]

No, no, you don't have fancy pants dot com. We've talked about this.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, that's right. So it's true. Some of them have lapsed. Normally. I have auto.

[Paris Martino]

That went to your wife. Your ex wife.

[Leo Laporte]

I gave it that. She got it in the divorce settlement.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Fancy pants.

[Leo Laporte]

I should write to her. Hey hon, do you think you still want fancy pants and tunic time? Let me see. I'm just going to log into hover here and see what's happening. I feel like I have a IO I could own.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Hare Is Var Is. It's never going to happen.

[Leo Laporte]

Why not? Is is Iceland. You should be.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I know it was bought. It was registered by someone else in 2007.

[Leo Laporte]

Dope.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Can't find a way to purchase it and I'm sure if I did, it would be like a million dollars. Hey, if you're out there, owner of par is, please give it to me for a reasonable price.

[Leo Laporte]

I was miffed because I wanted Leo.com, which would be a fantastic domain, right? Or a Leo.anything. the Royal bank of Canada's mascot is a lion named Leo. So they owned Leo.com for the longest darn time and then they let it lapse and I didn't notice in some domain squatter. Yes, I have Laporte I.O. oh yeah, Laporte.

[Paris Martino]

My son got JARV IS.

[Leo Laporte]

It's registered to.

[Jeff Jarvis]

That's really good.

[Leo Laporte]

I gotta update the address. It's registered to the twit cottage. I've had this since 2016 and it will not expire till 2025. So I should really think about it now. Should I keep it? Do the bag oans need it? What was their name for the Chagossians?

[Paris Martino]

Do they need it instead of them?

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. I have so many silly domain names.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I probably should get Leo. LOL for $3,000.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. No, see, not worth it. I do have. I think I have an LOL domain. I have a dot fund domain, so I don't know if I have a dot. No, no LOLs. How many domains. Do you have Paris? You have a lot? Probably. Yeah.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Not really. I just have ParisMartNo.com and Paris NYC.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, I like Paris.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Right.

[Leo Laporte]

That's kind of an interesting juxtaposition.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Right.

[Leo Laporte]

Of two big cities, one after the other, both encapsulating your spirit.

[Paris Martino]

Yes.

[Leo Laporte]

What do you use it for? Anything?

[Jeff Jarvis]

I just use it for my blue sky handle and it also redirects my website.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, so you do have a website.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

Paris nyc, man.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Right. Pretty good.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, that's the best.

[Paris Martino]

I finally, just this week, started using jeffjarvis.com?

[Jeff Jarvis]

What were you using before?

[Paris Martino]

Well, the guessmachine.com parenthesis.com I forgot that I owned it. My old employers advance, somebody sat on it and tried to screw me. And so the lawyers for advance went and got it and I forgot it. They paid for it for years. They finally said, jeff, can you take this off our hands?

[Leo Laporte]

We got it. We don't want.

[Paris Martino]

You know what?

[Leo Laporte]

You're sitting on things. I know. We. Last week we talked about our Oala bottles. Paris.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yes.

[Leo Laporte]

Just a little tip. I sat on the lid.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Oh, wow.

[Leo Laporte]

The springs went boing and. But it turns out Amazon sells a fake third party.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah, that does look fake. Look at the colors.

[Leo Laporte]

For only $8. Well, I was going to buy a whole new one, but, you know, the can's still good, so I just bought the new lid. Anyway, just a little tip. It's not. It's not.

[Paris Martino]

Who says this show isn't useful?

[Leo Laporte]

It wasn't a prime deal or anything.

[Paris Martino]

Wire cutter. You can do you.

[Leo Laporte]

So I feel so bad for people who work at sites like the Wire Cutter, the Verge, because they're going crazy right now because Prime Days. Right. The second one of the year.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah.

[Paris Martino]

I never find anything I want in prime days. Never, never, never, never.

[Leo Laporte]

Do you, Paris?

[Jeff Jarvis]

Are you barely a holiday? No, I'm not. I had to do. I had to do the Prime Day gift guides for New York magazine one year and it was a nightmare. Right now what all those writers are doing is combing through an endlessly long Excel spreadsheet and looking at meager deals and trying to find a way to get readers excited about it. Because it pays for their salary.

[Leo Laporte]

Exactly.

[Paris Martino]

Yep.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I remember one day we thought we weren't going to make our prime day targets, and then four people bought like a five grand TV using our affiliate link, and there we were.

[Paris Martino]

Yep.

[Leo Laporte]

Yes. You gotta keep doing it. Whose site? I was trying to remember. Some site said, maybe it was Wirecutter. Here are the 4393 good deals in the 28,972Amazon prime deals. It made me go, oh my God, that hurts. That hurts. Whoever had to do that? I was just searching for that story and I don't see it here anywhere.

[Paris Martino]

Anyway, so I just put up a little news about OpenAI from the FT, which I.

[Leo Laporte]

Well, there's a big story about OpenAI.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Actually, from the information from a few minutes ago.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, okay. Let's do that then. I'll do mine. So what's the story?

[Jeff Jarvis]

Open AI burned 340 million in the first half of 2024. They.

[Leo Laporte]

They got 167 billion.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Their total losses between 2023 and 2028 are going to be $44 billion.

[Leo Laporte]

So they don't have a four year Runway.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah, they don't know, I think, how, like when they're going to be profitable or they're not going to be profitable for a very long time, I believe.

[Paris Martino]

But according to my story, it won't matter.

[Leo Laporte]

Why not?

[Paris Martino]

Because now the latest gambit from Altman is that he wants to structure OpenAI. As we know, he wants to structure as a for profit company and the nonprofit, but he wants to structure it as a public benefit company.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Oh boy.

[Leo Laporte]

Well, that's better than.

[Paris Martino]

It's just a trick to fend off.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah. It's not really real.

[Leo Laporte]

It's not. I know a lot of public. I thought that you were. You had to, I don't know, be a public benefit or something, but.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah. What does that mean?

[Paris Martino]

Yeah, you make some fakey. We're really good.

[Leo Laporte]

It's not quite non profit, but you're not allowed to get rich, right?

[Paris Martino]

No, you can get as much as you want. But the thing is that, that what it, what it does is it protects you from raiders coming and saying you're not making enough profit.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh.

[Paris Martino]

So what he's protecting here is his lack of profitability going forward by doing this to hide behind a public benefit. Because Sam is. I wouldn't trust him.

[Leo Laporte]

So my stories were actually about AI. Also, Geoffrey Hinton wins a Nobel Prize in physics. Hinton, of course, is the godfather of AI, One of many. But he was the guy who came up with neural networks many, many years ago. He's also one of the signatories of the letter, which I think is why.

[Paris Martino]

They gave it to him. I think that the bells have become more and more political and I think it's an opportunity for them to give him attention.

[Leo Laporte]

Interesting.

[Paris Martino]

Wall Street Journal did immediately the Wall Street Journal said, and he's Screaming about danger.

[Leo Laporte]

Right.

[Paris Martino]

Wall Street Journal loves to do that.

[Leo Laporte]

Well you know who else won a Nobel Prize?

[Paris Martino]

Demisa Sebis, which really says that Google has really become or at least was a key basic research the new Bell Labs.

[Leo Laporte]

He of course was the founder of Deep Mind. Mind.

[Paris Martino]

You lost your mind.

[Leo Laporte]

That was not it. I knew that Deep Throat was wrong, very wrong. Leo founder of DeepMind his Nobel Prize is in chemistry. So Hinton one in for physics because there isn't a Nobel Prize for AI. Not yet, but has CB Swan because they came up with a Pro. You know DeepMind came up with a protein folding that has been used to, I thought, I don't know, no effect but apparently some effect in medicine. So David Baker, University of Washington John Jumper, Google DeepMind and Demisibis of DeepMind, Haseeebees and Jumper developed a powerful computational tool this is from the Washington Post. That gave researchers the long sought ability to predict how proteins twist and fold to create complex 3D structures that can block viruses, build muscle or degrade plastic. And protein folding is, you know this remember the, the, the whole thing where you were getting your computers idle time and you were donating it to a project and one of them was folding at home. Remember that? Where you would get all the computers in the world with their idle cycles trying to fold proteins. Well that's gone away because AI does it but easily and quickly. You don't need all those computers. So I'm curious, they got the Nobel Prize but have, has AlphaFold generated? I mean is there a medicine or something I can point to that says it's working?

[Paris Martino]

I mean I know it's making this define working. It was a pro. People undertook this project for a reason.

[Leo Laporte]

Right.

[Paris Martino]

Well that they could and we got there thanks to this.

[Leo Laporte]

Okay, so see it's no, it's a good thing. Yeah.

[Paris Martino]

It's not all generative AI.

[Leo Laporte]

That's a good. Okay, there you go. That's a good point. It isn't. This stuff is not generative AI. I mean I don't know what to me it is, it's all, anything that generates something with AI. It's generative AI.

[Paris Martino]

But well, so, so I'm, I, I, I have chat with the World Economic Forum at Davos. Oh and they, because I'm a member of the, of some kind of AI thing the AI governance thing. So anyway they, they said that it's also diagnostic, predictive, prescriptive and adaptive AI. Oh, I'm not sure all of those.

[Leo Laporte]

Okay. But I think, I think a lot of times we think of generative AI as chat bots, basically. Yeah, right.

[Paris Martino]

Chat GPT making swimming hippos.

[Leo Laporte]

When the Nobel committee called Geoffrey Hinton, he said he is quote, worried.

[Paris Martino]

Oh Jesus.

[Leo Laporte]

That the overall consequence of this might be systems more intelligent than us that might eventually take control. But then they said, but, but knowing that, would you. Would you do it all over again? He said, oh yeah.

[Paris Martino]

The whiny Oppenheimer.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, I do it again. I am. I am created chatbot.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Annoyer of worlds.

[Leo Laporte]

Very good, very good. I like that. Hopfield echoed his co laureates concerns in a video call yesterday afternoon at Princeton University. The worry I have is not quite. Not AI quite directly, but AI combined with information flow around the globe.

[Benito]

No one's worried about like bad people with AI that's like.

[Leo Laporte]

I think that's kind of what I'm worried about is like that, that, that maybe deep fakes, I don't know. Hopfield is 91, Hinton is 76. That's usually the case. You don't win a Nobel Prize to your.

[Paris Martino]

Debbie is very young, isn't he?

[Leo Laporte]

He's pretty young. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm just saying is there's still hope, Jeff, that's all. I'm just trying to get.

[Jeff Jarvis]

You could get your 4:00am phone call.

[Paris Martino]

I just want a MacArthur.

[Leo Laporte]

By the way, that's what that play that I really liked that the Washington Post hated. I saw that. I saw you sneaking in and review.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

Last week. So we were talking about McLean, which I thought was a great movie. It's. It's the Robert Downey Broadway debut play, not movie play that I saw.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I mean, it's a movie in some ways. He's moving.

[Leo Laporte]

He's moving and there's a lot of special effects on the stage. It's actually the staging and the Post did like the staging, but they hated the play itself. I don't know, did the Times hate it? Did the New Yorker. I haven't seen a review yet.

[Jeff Jarvis]

We should talk about Megalopolis, which I saw and I don't know if I hate it or not. It was a movie, an experience of a ride of a lifetime. I spent the whole time thinking about Adam Driver as Leo because he famously voiced an early version of either Driver's character or you said maybe the narrator.

[Leo Laporte]

I thought might be the narrator. It was one of those. I walked down the rainy streets and you know, it was. I thought he was a detective, but maybe it was Adam. Maybe he was an architect.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I mean, that does seem like something that Adam Drivers would say in this. It was a bizarre film. I really enjoyed it. There were parts of it that I was like.

[Paris Martino]

But you enjoy a lot of weird.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I love the weird movie. This is fun. And there are parts that I was like, this is terrible. Like, one of the first things that Adam Driver's character. The plot of this is it's set in New Rome, which is like New York City, but it's Rome, but it's in the future, but it's not very confusing. And Adam Driver plays a mad architect named Caesar who's got this vision for a future city that kind of looks like Hudson Yards mixed with that name of the utopia city that you see, which is an insult, like.

[Leo Laporte]

Like the Atlas Shrugged a little bit. I mean, what I say was an architect.

[Jeff Jarvis]

It's like Ayn Rand mixed with Hudson Yards mixed with.

[Paris Martino]

That's just hilarious.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Caesar. I don't know. It's not great.

[Leo Laporte]

I want to see it just because of the spectacle. By the way, you're lucky you saw it, because there's some. Some thought that they will not be sent to streaming, that this is it. You see it in the theater. You don't see it at all.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I also saw an immersive screening where midway through.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, yeah, you told us.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I don't consider a spoiler, because this is 30 seconds of the movie, and it does not have consequence. A satellite crashes into New York City. Then archival footage of 911 is played, which I've since learned was shot when they were filming, because they've been filming this movie for so goddamn long that they have never before seen footage of 911 in this. Then there is a scene of Adam Driver as the Architect in a very tiny box on screen at a press conference. Then the house lights go up in the theater, and a man walks out in front of the movie theater with a mic, takes notes, and then asks Adam on screen a question. Adam Driver responds, and then he goes away. And the lights.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, that's so immersive.

[Jeff Jarvis]

It was.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, my God. Reality is bending.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I know. I thought it was kind of like.

[Leo Laporte]

Going to the Rocky Horror Picture show and seeing some guy dressed as Frankenfurter. But.

[Jeff Jarvis]

But that.

[Leo Laporte]

That.

[Paris Martino]

That person is now going to say that he was in a Coppola production, right?

[Leo Laporte]

Well, like me, I was in a co.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I mean, like you.

[Leo Laporte]

So you. This is good. Did you. We. We did this before the show. So Megalopolis Coppola has been working on this for 40 years. Yes, and I mentioned that 30 years ago, I was called into Zoetrope I had. I auditioned for a role in some unknown radio thing that Coppola was doing at Zoetrope and read a part for a couple of nights with other actors in Zoetrope. I later figured out that we were recording some sort of pre visualization from a movie that Francis was working on, but the movie never came out.

[Paris Martino]

And the. The other hit that says you're Adam Driver is that you were supposed to sound like Bob Woodward. I got fired knowing how he sounds and Bob Woodward sounds like Adam Driver.

[Leo Laporte]

Francis grew increasingly agitated. He kept saying, do it more like Bob Woodward. And I had no idea what Bob Woodward sounded like. So I didn't know what this direction meant. So I just tried different accents, some.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Of the strangest voice acting, and just general acting choices I've ever seen in a movie. In this film, there is one where it's a normal scene between Adam Driver and what will become his love interest. And he's talking in a normal way, and then he goes, so go back to the club. That is fully how he delivers the love.

[Leo Laporte]

I can totally see Adam Driver doing that. He does that little vocal tick.

[Jeff Jarvis]

But this is relevant because you have to see it. And I also heard from Coppola when he was talking, when someone was asking him in an interview recently, what led you to come back to Megalopolis all these years later? He said some years ago he had filmed a Food Tour TV show episode with Anthony Bourdain. I assumed Italy. Where else would he go? But he was watching himself on it, and he was like, oh, I look so fat. I hate the way I look. So he signed up for, like, an exercise camp. And during the whole exercise thing, he was like, what should I listen to? Might as well listen to the old audio recordings I made for the visualizations of Megalopolis. So I was thinking. I was like, he's listening to Leo.

[Leo Laporte]

I wonder if he left my part in and then had Father Guido Sarducci do the rest.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Frankly, given the way that this movie turned out, that would make sense. It is the most disjointed, confusing experience. There was a whole subplot where Aubrey Plaza is a character named wow. Platinum. That is kind of like sexy Jim Cramer. She hosts a financial morning talk news show called the Money Bunny.

[Paris Martino]

Oh, God. Which is the money honey reference to that.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, I get it. So he borrowed or raised money, like a hundred, what, 120 million.

[Benito]

He sold one of his vineyards.

[Leo Laporte]

He sold a vineyard for $120 million.

[Jeff Jarvis]

He leveraged, I think, his vineyard as collateral.

[Leo Laporte]

This vineyard by the way, just north of me, the cop going to be.

[Paris Martino]

Owned by somebody else pretty soon, huh? This is a triggering question for me.

[Leo Laporte]

So what was this opening weekend? It earned $4 million. Yeah.

[Jeff Jarvis]

No, it's not gonna make money. It was not a. I will probably see it again. But I'm also crazy. I wouldn't say I found that a decent movie watching experience, but it wasn't pleasurable. I was listening to pop culture happy hour talk about this, and they were trying to decide whether it was a failure or a fiasco. Because a failure is just a failure that is, like, not fun at all. But a fiasco's got some pizzazz. Like there's something about it. It fails. And this is definitely a fiasco in kind of a fun way.

[Leo Laporte]

One of the funniest this American Life episodes ever is called Fiasco. And if you haven't listened to it, it is a series of fiascos. And it's a one. It's. It's. It's what made this American Life. It's.

[Paris Martino]

How long is it Paris?

[Jeff Jarvis]

Two hours and 18 minutes.

[Paris Martino]

Oh, I thought it might have been a four hour.

[Leo Laporte]

So I may be four hours.

[Jeff Jarvis]

It might have made more sense.

[Leo Laporte]

I see that it is now up for pre sale on Amazon and itunes and the various streaming sites.

[Jeff Jarvis]

So I would say it's definitely a movie I'd recommend seeing in theaters, if you could.

[Paris Martino]

I guess.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I don't know whether the theaters would be packed. I saw it in a packed giant IMAX theaters and people were just uproarious. It was sold out.

[Leo Laporte]

It was fun to see that with a lot of.

[Jeff Jarvis]

It was the immersive one with the guy. So everybody was there to see the guy, but people were laughing their butts off during it because there are some really strange choices in there. At one point, a character is talking about a baby she's about to have to someone and she's like, if it's a girl, we'll name her Sunny Hope. If it's a boy, Francis, it's so. It's like stuff like that one after another. Jeff, you were asking a question before.

[Paris Martino]

It's triggering for me to ask this, but I'm now I'm curious how. What was the 911 footage like?

[Jeff Jarvis]

I feel like it was just kind of a short. Like they had like three panel shots that were kind of interspersed throughout the film. One of which I believe was like, perhaps like the aftermath of 9 11. Like it wasn't, you know, plane crashing into the towers, anything like that, but it Was footage that I recognized as, huh, that's a 911. And then afterwards I heard that it was never before seen footage from the day because they were filming in downtown Manhattan when that happened.

[Leo Laporte]

I am, I am looking at the 6:30 show tonight at our local theater and looks like I can have the theater all to myself. Yeah.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Then maybe watch it at home.

[Paris Martino]

Leo's gonna be rushing off to make sure he gets in.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, I think I'll go. Should I get tickets? I mean, I sad to see it. Like I'm the only person in the freaking theater.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I would go if you could go. I mean, honestly, if you're there by yourself, then just like know that it's good to laugh. I think that it's kind of a very funny movie to me. But God, it's weird. It's such a weird movie. There's a whole deep fake subplot.

[Leo Laporte]

I feel like I would like this movie, to be honest with you. That's what.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah, no, it's like a mix between. Like there are parts of the movie that I'm like, oh, this could have been good. But it like, it doesn't make sense. Right There's. It switches between. At one point, Adam Driver does the full Shakespeare to be and not to be monologue. At another point, a guy does a boner joke. It's. It's bizarre.

[Leo Laporte]

It's bizarre trying to get out of writing a few pages of script. I think I have this old Shakespeare stuff I could use.

[Jeff Jarvis]

And it's very funny because like, it's kind of set in modern times. So then all the people watching are like, what's this guy doing in like normal English? And they're like, ah, just let him come.

[Leo Laporte]

Not to be. That's the question, basically.

[Benito]

Oh, it just sounds like he was working on it for too long. That like he left too much and he didn't know how to cut stuff.

[Paris Martino]

That's what he was like.

[Benito]

Yeah.

[Paris Martino]

I sat next to him once in San Francisco. It was when Apocalypse now was coming out. I was one of the few people who liked it.

[Leo Laporte]

I loved it. It's the greatest love Apocalypse. You know what? In hindsight, you're right. At the time it was panned. In hindsight, it's got to be the greatest war movie.

[Jeff Jarvis]

It's not as good as Apocalypse now, but it is interesting. I think it's the most interesting movie I've seen.

[Leo Laporte]

He's made some terrible movies, there's no doubt about that. But I have huge respect for Francis.

[Jeff Jarvis]

The opening of it is a Direct nod to Hudsucker Proxy, which is one of my favorite movies, so I liked that.

[Leo Laporte]

So you're a movie Finn. A nihilist. I am an optimistic nihilist and a movie fan.

[Jeff Jarvis]

That's true. An optimistic nihilist and a movie fan walk into a bar.

[Paris Martino]

So the truth is, I really liked going to the movies for the popcorn. True. And when the pandemic seemed to die down. It's not died down. It's still there, folks. I know that. But I thought, you know, I haven't had that popcorn in four years. And I went to the local theater where they have the juicy popcorn.

[Leo Laporte]

A, b.

[Paris Martino]

A little tiny one. $8.

[Leo Laporte]

Well, that's their profit. I know, but geez, I'll make you. When next time you're out here, I'll make you some good movies. I make good popcorn.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Nice.

[Leo Laporte]

I do. I have a whole. I have, actually, official popcorn equipment.

[Paris Martino]

Of course you do.

[Leo Laporte]

I have a pot that's exclusively for making popcorn.

[Paris Martino]

Do you make it in your pizza? Well, you don't have a pizza oven anymore.

[Leo Laporte]

No, I don't. I don't make in the pizza oven. I make it on the stovetop. But it's a. It's a whirly pop now. I use the official whirly pops for a while, but they fall apart. I got myself a really nice stainless steel, glass, metal gear whirly pop that does. And then I use Amish country popcorn. It's very, very good. And then I put the salt in the whirly pop so that. And I use ghee. Not butter, not oil, but ghee to pop the popcorn. And then, of course, melted butter on top if you really want to go crazy. But another thing you could do is put the salt in with some sugar and do the whirly pop. And then.

[Paris Martino]

You got any bananas in this?

[Leo Laporte]

Or put bananas.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Bananas.

[Leo Laporte]

Top with mayonnaise and you've got yourself bananas.

[Paris Martino]

I think it's a. It's a thing. You know, there was a lot of Google news this week.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. Let's take a break and then come back and actually do some stuff.

[Paris Martino]

I just want to. I just want to say, for the records, we did no news last week.

[Leo Laporte]

We're doing no. You know, we've done a lot of news. We've done. All right.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Loops all arguments.

[Paris Martino]

Oh, yeah. That's all it was. There was no news. We hit, like, two headlines.

[Leo Laporte]

We started to play Scooter X's Notebook LM Change log. And it was so awful, we had to stop.

[Paris Martino]

We got into A fight about Taylor Lorenz, by the way, I still can't.

[Leo Laporte]

Go to her site. It says it's malware. I don't know why, but I have my ear. My, my. You know, our, our security software is blocking it.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Weird.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah, that's kind of all we did.

[Leo Laporte]

Anyway, let's not think about the past. Let's be optimistic. Nihilists, shall we? More to come with this week in Google. Jeff Jarvis, Paris Martino and your, your, your host, Adam Driver. Our show today brought to you by Veeam V Double E A M. Now, VM is a really important product as far as I'm concerned, because if everybody in the world would just use Veeam, there would be no ransomware, there would be no data breaches, there would be no problems. Your data as a company is the most important thing you got. Without your data, your customers trust turns to digital dust. That's why Veeam's data protection and underlying this ransomware recovery ensures that you can secure and restore your enterprise data wherever, whenever you need it, no matter what happens. Doesn't that sound good? Veeam is the number one global market leader in data resilience. Trusted by this number blows me away. 77% of the Fortune 500. You got to wonder about that other 23%. 77% of the Fortune 500 uses Veeam to keep their businesses running when digital disruptions like ransomware strike. That's because Veeam lets you backup and recover your data instantly across the entire cloud ecosystem, no matter where your data lives. With Veeam, you could proactively detect malicious activity, stop it cold before you need it. You can also remove the guesswork. And this is so important by automating your recovery plans and policies. You have recovery plans and policies, right? Well, you gotta keep them up to date with Veeam. You'll get real time support from ransomware recovery experts so you're never on your own. Data is the lifeblood of your business. Get Data Resilient with Veeam V e e a m.com to learn more. Veeam.com we thank them so much for their support of this week in Google. And of course you support us by using that, that site, Veeam. Thank you, Veeam. I do have some other stories, but they're not yet Google stories. But I'll get to them one day. One of the things we talked about last week Ed Zittrin would not talk about it, is the kerfuffle between automatic and WordPress and WordPress engine and of course that was last week, was the day. And the reason he couldn't talk about is he represents Automatic.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Oh, I thought he was just like too boring.

[Leo Laporte]

I don't want to talk about that.

[Paris Martino]

No, maybe too boring.

[Leo Laporte]

But he also crazy glued like say a word. We had somebody on the show Sunday who used to work for Automatic has a lot of respect, I think for Matt Mullenweg, as I do, but it's a complicated story. Great piece from Jeffrey Zeldman. I have a lot. I'll tell you what, I have a lot of respect for Zeldman. He is one of the guys behind so many web standards that we use. He's one of the old school guys. He works at Automatic. He have decided to stay there or take a job there after.

[Paris Martino]

Should you. Should you give, if I may, the background here of what he was, what everybody was offered.

[Leo Laporte]

It was like six. It was six months. Six months or 30,000, whichever's larger.

[Jeff Jarvis]

To do what? To leave.

[Paris Martino]

To leave because people were disagreeing with what Matt had. This is background. I think it matters. Matt had come out with his jihad against the other company engine and some disagreed with him and his tone. And Matt said okay. And it wasn't. It was. I think, I think it was a uniquely matte thing to do to say I don't want to have you feel like you're working in a company where you're going to disagree. So I'm going to make a very generous offer. Anybody who wants to leave can leave and get six months salary.

[Jeff Jarvis]

And that includes six months health insurance.

[Leo Laporte]

Yes. In fact, that's why Zeldman said I really thought about this because he has.

[Paris Martino]

Creditors hired somewhere else.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, it's a six months salary in advance would have wiped the slate clean on medical debts and financial obligations incurred by the closing of my publishing businesses and my conference.

[Paris Martino]

So 159 people took the offer.

[Leo Laporte]

A lot of people.

[Paris Martino]

8.4% of the company. The other 91.6% gave up 126 million. The potential severance to stay. 63.5% were male, 53% were in the US by division. It affected our ecosystem, WordPress areas the most. 79.2% of those who took it were in our ecosystem business, compared with 18.2% from Cosmos, our apps like Pocketcasts. 18 people made over 200,000k a year. One person started two days before the deadline.

[Leo Laporte]

Wow.

[Paris Martino]

Four people then took it and changed their minds. Okay, so that's the background here of what Zeldman faces.

[Leo Laporte]

And I got Again I say I really respect Zeldman. He is a legend and have been around forever. He says even as I made myself think about what six months salary in a lump sum could do to help my family and call my creditors, I knew in my soul there was no way I'd leave this company. I respect the courage and conviction of my departed colleagues. I already miss them. I feel the departure is a personal loss. My grief is real. The sadness is like a cold fog on a dark, wet night. But I stayed because I believe in the work Automatic is doing. I believe in the open web and owning your content. I've devoted nearly three decades of work to this cause. And when I choose to move in house, or when I chose to move in house, house, I knew there was only one house that would suit me. Automatic. Now he refers to a post by the guy who created Drupal Dries. But Tart called solving the Maker taker problem and Dries, you know, Drupal, which is what we use as our content management system, is definitely a competitor with WordPress. But dries as I'm not going to take a position on the WordPress thing, but I. It's important to understand that every open source project has people who contribute to it and people who take from it. And it's. It's as if. And Zelman says it this way, he says it's as if you would go to dinner with Paris and Jeff and I go to dinner every week for years and I always pay and nobody else offers to pay. At some point you got to say something about it. So he.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Can you summarize the core of the debate again for me? What is. What are people upset about?

[Leo Laporte]

I actually. I don't know. I mean, I do kind of know. So remember that Matt Mullenweg wrote WordPress in the beginning and it was. It became very, very widely used. He gives it [e-mail] you can download it, you can install it yourself. He also started a company, WordPress.com, it's called Automatic, and that is a managed version of WordPress. So you pay somebody to run your website and keep it up to date and all that stuff. 43% of the web now uses WordPress.

[Paris Martino]

Amazing.

[Leo Laporte]

It's a huge enterprise. For a long time a sponsor.

[Paris Martino]

It defeated Movable Type.

[Leo Laporte]

That's right. Because it was open and because it's free as an open source project.

[Paris Martino]

But there's something interesting there is that.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, hello, Gizmo. Are you interested in this open source maker? Take your problem. Do you Ever pay for dinner, Gizmo, do you?

[Jeff Jarvis]

Gizmo never pays for dinner. She believes in saving her capital. Yeah, exactly.

[Paris Martino]

So Movable Type, this is relevant, I think, to where you're going. Movable Type tried to disadvantage licensors of its software, which meant that it was put itself in a conflict of interest. But WordPress didn't do that and said anybody can compete. Anybody. It's open source. We mean it, it's open source and thus it won. However, WP Engine was not acting appropriately according to math. Right.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, I mean they, they competed directly with WordPress.com by offering a simple managed WordPress installation. But. And I'm not sure I don't want.

[Paris Martino]

To, they didn't contribute to the open source was.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, I don't want to misstate Matt's objections or even take a side in this, but what Droz says, and I think is right is that the problem with open source software is you have this, he calls it the maker taker challenge, which you have people who are very generously giving their software away with a kind of unwritten expectation that people who use it, especially companies, and this is a big problem, who use this software will contribute back. Not necessarily financially. Could be financially, but also maybe in kind with contributions to the software, that kind of thing. And there is this imbalance and we know that there's an imbalance between people who make and give away their software. People like Linus, Torvalds and then big companies that really just use it because they don't have to pay for it and don't contribute back. Dries says addressing the Maker Taker challenge is essential for the long term sustainability of open source projects. And I agree. I think Matt maybe lost his head a little bit on this. You know, it really became personal for him.

[Jeff Jarvis]

And so maybe what like caused the, like, what flipped the switch for him? Because this seems like a very dramatic stance to be taking.

[Leo Laporte]

I know and I feel like I owe you. I probably shouldn't have brought this up without being more willing to have an opinion on it. I'm.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I feel a little bit like an opinion.

[Leo Laporte]

I feel like I a little like it because I really know, I know and love Matt and I've known him since the beginning and we've had him on the show and he really is a very strong.

[Paris Martino]

Defends open source. He's an advocate. That's why I tend to trust him.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, it's all right to be biased.

[Jeff Jarvis]

On something and admit your bias. Yeah, this is now perfectly neutral on.

[Paris Martino]

Everything to be known as in the. In the discord. Have you ever seen this?

[Jeff Jarvis]

The what challenge?

[Paris Martino]

The Trenton Challenge. The Trenton's Bridge. The stupidest slogan for a town anywhere. Do you see it on the Trenton Bridge? Just so bitter, isn't it? Just like, okay, be that way, world.

[Leo Laporte]

So in mid September. This is from TechCrunch. Mullenweg wrote a blog post calling WP Engine, quote, a cancer to WordPress.

[Paris Martino]

Strong.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. He criticized WP Engine for disabling the ability for users to see and track the revision history for every post. This is a feature of WordPress. They disabled it. Mullenweg says that's the core of the user promise of protecting your data. WP Engine turns it off, he says, to save money. He also called out WP Engines investors, Silver Lake, a private equity company, and said they don't contribute sufficiently to the open source project and that WP engines use of the WP brand has confused customers into thinking it's part of WordPress, which I think probably some people do. It's not. I think to somebody who's not paying attention, it's really not clear what WordPress.org WordPress.com WP engine automatic. What? Who are they? Where are they related?

[Paris Martino]

Something like if you gave $10 to WordPress, you'd be doing 100 times more than WP Engine has given to the open source project.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, that's pretty strong. WP Engine, of course, sent a cease and desist letter, then Automatic sent a cease and desist to them. And, you know, then the battle goes on. Again. I. My sympathies are with Matt. I think he's maybe this is a hot button for him and he's maybe overreacting a little bit. But I also don't blame him because it is a problem. And there you have it. Okay, because we wanted to kind of COVID it on last week, but Ed's recusal made it difficult to talk too much.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I bet he left a big. Him being silent leaves a big void in the room.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, boy. When you got him throughout the show and then suddenly it really. You hear it. All right. You said there's a lot of.

[Paris Martino]

Tons of Google news.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, my God, I missed all of this. I've just scrolled down just to give.

[Paris Martino]

It a quick digest here. A judge.

[Leo Laporte]

Wait a minute. The most important one is we're going to break up. Google says the Department of Justice, Right?

[Paris Martino]

That's what the DOJ says. Well, they know the DOJ says we have a menu of punishments for Google. Your Honor. Take your pick and so it goes up to breaking up. But that's not the only remedy. There's other remedies. One is they can't get anybody for search, which means that Mozilla and Apple are badly hurt. Another is that they, by the way.

[Leo Laporte]

That saves Google $40 billion fortune. It doesn't hurt Google.

[Paris Martino]

Makes no sense. Another is that they have to advertise that you have choices in search.

[Leo Laporte]

That's dumb.

[Paris Martino]

That's dumb. Another is to break up, though it doesn't say exactly how. And so I have Google's response here at line.

[Leo Laporte]

DOJ's radical and sweeping proposals written hurting consumers, businesses and developers. Well, of course Google's going to say that.

[Paris Martino]

Yes, but not wrong.

[Leo Laporte]

And you know what? With some merit. I mean it's not like it isn't. You start knocking at the supports of this house of cards and who knows what's going to happen.

[Paris Martino]

And do you end up with five more valuable companies that you know, because the thing is consumers will probably still pick Google search.

[Leo Laporte]

Right. Remember the DOJ was going to break up Microsoft and we talked about this earlier on Windows Weekly and really the upshot of that would have been breaking up Microsoft into two companies. Operating systems and soft and work. Office would have been two more valuable companies. Shareholders would have gotten shares in both. Everybody wins. So yeah, it's, I would love to see Google be forced to give up YouTube. I think that's a little much. I think Google, the fact that Google controls all ends of the advertising transaction is clearly problematic.

[Paris Martino]

What if it has hurt us with an Elon Musk? What if it ends up with Satoshi saying I know what I want to spend my 60 billion on. I'm going to buy YouTube and do crazy things. Right? Yeah, it's, you know, you be careful of the Apple card.

[Leo Laporte]

That's a good point.

[Paris Martino]

You upset.

[Leo Laporte]

Good point.

[Paris Martino]

And then the major papers, the Financial Times said this is a gift link. The Google breakup reads like an antitrust fan fiction.

[Leo Laporte]

Right.

[Paris Martino]

And the New York Times said this is going to be really hard to do. And at the same time, I love this. The story comes in here. A Wall Street Journal story from just the other day said Google's grip on search slips as TikTok and AI startup mount challenge. So it's just like Microsoft, the timing.

[Leo Laporte]

Is, it's hard because these things move glacially slowly in the technology industry.

[Paris Martino]

And this is what's clear, is because Google is going to fight full on. They're going to go through every possible court. This is going to take years upon years upon years.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Well, I mean, they have to. It's like a. For their shareholders. They have a fiduciary responsibility, too.

[Paris Martino]

But they're going to spend money now. One of the stories, I think, was the Ty story said they're going to spend money now at a current dollar, and it's worth it because in the future, by the time anything ever happens, the value of what they spent will have gone down with inflation. So it's also in their. In their fiscal sense to just fight as long as possible.

[Leo Laporte]

So it's funny because Paul Thurat said, I really want to know what Jeff Jarvis thinks about this.

[Paris Martino]

Oh, Paul Fraught I. By the way, Paul, who I'm bitter at, he was in Berlin for more than a week. I told him like five times on Facebook, you have to go to the food floor and cottage. He never went. And he ate at the same bloody restaurant nearby, like five times, having stupid curry versed every single time.

[Leo Laporte]

I think he actually loved curry. Worse, he talked a lot about it.

[Paris Martino]

Every single time he had curry first. Geez, it's awful. Okay, versus awful.

[Leo Laporte]

But anyway, Michael, Lisa's son, is going to Germany with his German tutor and his dad in a week.

[Paris Martino]

Wow.

[Leo Laporte]

And he will. They will be going all over Germany, including Berlin. Would you please text me or send me or email me the name of that place and I will make sure that they go there.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah. Kauf House does best.

[Jeff Jarvis]

They should go to the film museum.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, see, this is the problem. Anyway, Uli is a native. His tutor. His German tutor is native. And by the way, Michael speaks incredibly fluent German. Woolly said he could teach German if he wants. This kid's 21. And for some reason, society wanted to learn German and quickly outpaced what the school could offer. So he has this native speaker tutor who's fantastic. So I can't wait, because he's going to go to Germany and suddenly the language he's been learning is going to come alive.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah, I went finally. Mein deutsche Schleider zerschlecht. I went finally when I was 24 and I said, why didn't I pay attention?

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, it's a fascinating culture and country.

[Paris Martino]

Anyway, I forget why I did that to us, didn't I? No.

[Leo Laporte]

But do bring us the Klaus.

[Paris Martino]

Kauf House. Dis vestance, Cody.

[Leo Laporte]

Okay, the other story. Oh, but no, before I do that, I forgot. Paul Thurat wanted to know, what does Jeff think? What should happen?

[Paris Martino]

I think that what this exposes is the inadequacy of antitrust doctrine today, because and we've talked about this many times. If you under us, it's about consumer harm. Consumers are not harmed. They are helped in each one of these cases. I do think the one place where Google is vulnerable, which is not this case, because this is the search case, is in the ad case.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, it's a terrible thing.

[Paris Martino]

I disclosed on this show. I got a call from lawyers who I don't know who they could have been for wanting to see if I wanted to be an expert or if I was qualified to be an expert witness. And as the talk went on, gee, it was about advertising and antitrust and this and that. And I said, well, you might want to know what I said in my new book, the Way we we've on sale now, that it's the one area where Google is most vulnerable in antitrust. And they said, okay, thanks. Never mind. We don't, we don't really want you.

[Leo Laporte]

I agree with you. Because they own the entire chain. They buy the sell, they make the market.

[Paris Martino]

But even there, there's an argument that says that the market is more efficient because they're there doing all that. But it is the area where I think they're vulnerable. Search. It's ridiculous. It's a red herring. Their shopping, which the Europeans go after, is ridiculous. And consumers, how do you feel about.

[Jeff Jarvis]

The fact that Google lawyers had you pegged as an ally of Google?

[Paris Martino]

Because I wrote a book called what Would Google Do?

[Jeff Jarvis]

I mean, you think it's just as simple as that?

[Paris Martino]

I'm on a podcast.

[Leo Laporte]

He's on a podcast. Google, you must love Google, right?

[Jeff Jarvis]

But I assume they probably put some other, you know. Yeah, well, man hours.

[Paris Martino]

I've said it on the show. I've said on the show often I think that the case in other areas is BS but in that area, I actually agree with the government going investigating. I think that's the right.

[Leo Laporte]

It's hard to know what to do though, isn't it? Because it. You don't want to upset the Apple cart.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah, it's really hard to know the Apple cart.

[Leo Laporte]

And.

[Benito]

They came in and took over everyone else's Apple cart. So why can't like we tip their Apple cart?

[Jeff Jarvis]

I would also say that your point earlier about consumer harm, I don't know. I think there should be an asterisk there. It's like, yeah, perhaps consumers aren't being harmed under the specific way the US justice system deter. Defines consumer harm. Currently, some people argue that consumers are being harmed because monopolistic forces deprive them of choices that would otherwise be available if it wasn't such a concentrated market.

[Paris Martino]

Would you want a European model where the IDA trust is more about not too big is too big.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. Or you could say Google. The way Google has manipulated the ad market makes it very difficult for blogs to succeed and for podcasts like ours to succeed. And they're dom, you know, they, they are very dominant in advertising. Between Google and Facebook, pretty much all digital advertising, something like 80 or 90% of it goes through Google and Facebook. Their dominance means, you know, they, there's no competitive market for advertising. That's not good for us.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah. So I think advertising is where they're vulnerable. But the search case here I think is ridiculous.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. Because in the long run something else is going to come along like TikTok and it's not going to matter anyway.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah. So the other.

[Leo Laporte]

And they're actually, they're actually ruining their own search, frankly.

[Paris Martino]

I think that the web, the AI is ruining the web, which in turn makes search impossible to do and go.

[Leo Laporte]

Do a search, though. And the first half of the page is nonsense, not AI nonsense. Google provided nonsense. You know, they're also going to add.

[Paris Martino]

Ads into their AI answer and that's going to piss off the publishers who say, well, now you're making money on the stuff that you're training on from us. They're not too clever in some cases.

[Benito]

So isn't this all part of it? Like you're saying the search is not a good vector of attack, but like you're saying their search is getting so bad now, but there's no alternative because there was. No one has been able to compete with Google.

[Paris Martino]

Well, there is disagreeing about who's to fault for that, I think. Yeah, yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

He thinks it's the bad searches reflects the bad content.

[Paris Martino]

If you want to go after Google, pick your best case and your best case is advertising, not search. That's what I'm saying. Now, whether you should go after Google is a different question. But I'm just saying that if we, if we buy that. However, I think the other important case is in the App Store, which I think is going to hurt consumers. You saw that.

[Leo Laporte]

Yes. So this is the other judge ordered Google to pry open. This is Shira Ovid writing in the Washington Post its Android app store to competition on Monday. James Donato, Large this is a victory for Epic Games. Remember Epic Games, the maker of Fortnite sued both Google and Apple. They didn't do very well in the Apple case, but it looks like they've got pretty much A complete victory in the Google case. They won a jury verdict last year that said the Play Store was an illegal monopoly. Epic wanted to. The problem for epic was this 30% vig that Google and Apple take of sales. Epic wanted to sell in in game goods and products without giving money to Apple or Google. I'm not sure why they lost in the Apple case. I think because there wasn't a jury. It was different judges. It was a judge and in the end the Google case, it was a jury verdict. Donato so after the jury ruled last year that the store was a monopoly. Donato Judge Donato was tasked with mandating changes to the App Store to fix the behavior. He says that Google has to allow other apps app stores in the Google Play Store. The judge required Google to remove roadblocks that largely discourage businesses for making Android apps available to download from their websites. Or by the way, nobody wants to do that. Fortnite did it for a while. Oh, you don't have. Because Android does not make you do it from the Play Store. There's. There is a security checkbox you can check and then you can go to the Fortnite site and download it from there if you want side loading they call that. The judge says you got to take away that checkbox, that roadblock or allow digital storefronts not controlled by Google so somebody could download an Epic. This is what Epic really wants download on their Android phone from the Google Play Store and Epic Store where you could buy stuff for Fortnite, buy other games from Epic. Apple absolutely does not allow this except they're being required to now in in Europe and they're dragging their feet putting up a whole bunch of Roblox which the EU is not too happy about. I imagine Google will face the same thing. Donato also said app makers can offer people more options to pay for digital purchases like Disney plus Streaming or Extra Lives and Candy Crush. Google right now requires in app purchases to go through its own payment system and that's when they get their 30%. This is a very big deal.

[Paris Martino]

This is what it's also about the security of what you can put on your phone. Now is that worth 30% vig or not? That's a debate to have. But it is a service to users that Google and Apple each.

[Leo Laporte]

Well, that's what they say. I don't think it does provide a lot of security. That's what the argument for them in his. For Apple it is a massive windfall. It is a big part of their revenue. I imagine it is for Google as well, they would like to really. The real question is, does the maker of your smartphone have the right to control everything on that smartphone?

[Paris Martino]

Right. Which is a very.

[Benito]

Absolutely not.

[Leo Laporte]

Like, I would think not. You own it. It's like saying, oh, if you buy a car from Audi, you have to use shell gasoline and no other.

[Benito]

Or like today, if they implemented a 30% vig on your Mac software, everyone.

[Leo Laporte]

Would be an uproar.

[Jeff Jarvis]

It is fascinating to me that we've gotten to this position with phone smartphones yet no other platform.

[Leo Laporte]

I would submit it's because these companies learned from their desktops and the smartphone came along, remember, much later, starting in 2000, 2007. And they said, we're not going to make the same mistake. There was. I think there was very. You're right, Jeff. A legitimate security argument. They said, we really got a. Smartphones are going to be a security target and we really got to lock them down.

[Paris Martino]

Right. That tied to the. With the vig makes.

[Leo Laporte]

Right.

[Paris Martino]

Makes their argument less valid.

[Leo Laporte]

And oh, we make some money too on it. That's okay. But I do think that, I mean, there's a security issue on desktops as well. I mean, that doesn't. That doesn't go away.

[Benito]

I can download something that's been there and that we're all.

[Leo Laporte]

That's right.

[Benito]

We all know it.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah. Unless you have a Chromebook, which is controlled by Google and means that I have none of these problems.

[Leo Laporte]

That's true. It's a good point. So does. So that's the real question. That's. And that's what the jury has decided. But is again, the question is, does the maker of a smartphone have the right to control what's on that smartphone for your benefit? And I agree with you, Benito. Absolutely not.

[Paris Martino]

Google News. We the Google News.

[Leo Laporte]

No. So what's weird is that Google now has to do this, but Apple doesn't.

[Jeff Jarvis]

That is interesting.

[Paris Martino]

That's very weird.

[Leo Laporte]

Different jurisdictions, different courts, and most importantly, one was a jury decision and one was a judge's decision. And I think the judge probably is more sophisticated than the jury. I don't know.

[Paris Martino]

But does that leave any. We need. We need Kathy here. Does that leave any cause for. In itself for appeal to say that, you know, equal treatment?

[Leo Laporte]

I think Epic has decided not. No, Epic and Apple both went to the Supreme Court, but with just smaller issues in the overall case. So I think Epic's decided that they're going to live with that one. They're very happy about the Google.

[Paris Martino]

What about. What about Google saying We shouldn't be subject to this if Apple isn't.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh. Oh. The other way around.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah. Is that a basis for appeal?

[Leo Laporte]

I don't think so. It's like saying, hey, that cop was driving 80 miles an hour in a 60 mile zone. Why, why can't I?

[Jeff Jarvis]

Like, tough luck.

[Benito]

You're out of luck because you don't have qualified immunity.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, yeah, that. I forgot about that. Neither does Google.

[Paris Martino]

Hey. Yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. Wow. Very. That's. Yeah. I don't know. More and more, I used to, on these shows, be willing to express ill formed opinions.

[Paris Martino]

Devil's advocate. You saw that as your role and.

[Leo Laporte]

I kind of lost that. I kind of. Now, I don't know. Maybe because I'm getting older or because I'm losing my marbles. I don't know. I don't know what the answer is anymore.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. That's where Ed.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

I don't even. That. Even that I've kind of given up on, haven't I? I'm just kind of. I'm. I should be more like Ed, like, certain about everything.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I mean, it's better exhausting to do that.

[Paris Martino]

It is.

[Leo Laporte]

I'm exhausted. Anyway, so I think I was thinking.

[Jeff Jarvis]

About this the other day is like, you know, I used to be so into tweeting to posting. Was always coming up with a hot take on something. Always out there looking for content. And it really was good for, you know, follower counts and things like that. But that's too. It's too exhausting. I don't have time for that.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. Do you think maybe we burned out on that? I mean, certainly I look at Twitter now and I go, these people are just performing. They're performing.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah. It's absolutely all performing. And the performance is exhausting.

[Leo Laporte]

It's exhausting. It's a lot of work and. And to whose benefit?

[Benito]

I see it as the high school cafeteria of the Internet.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, we outgrew it.

[Jeff Jarvis]

No, it's definitely just, you know, a peacock fluffing up its feathers, which can.

[Leo Laporte]

Be a beautiful sight. I miss.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah. You know, you see someone making a little ghost and you're like, that's a beautiful sight. But also to what end?

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. Although I have to say, I go to Blue sky and I see Drill trying really hard, and it just doesn't work on other places.

[Jeff Jarvis]

No, I think Drill works no matter where he goes.

[Leo Laporte]

Really? You like Drill's posts on Blue Sky?

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah, I think they're good.

[Leo Laporte]

Okay. I just. Maybe I'm.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I just like the fact that Blue sky, when they were Coming into existence, hiring their first engineers, employees. Every single person got a paperback copy of Drills tweets and they reserved Drills handle on Blue Sky. We're so surprised when he tried to sign up that he was like, why can't I get my handle? And they were like, oh, no. We've been saving it for you, Mr. Drill.

[Leo Laporte]

Welcome. I have started. Tell me if I'm wrong doing this. I got a new program for iOS called Croissant, which is a cross posting app and has a nice little Croissant. Oh, icon. It doesn't post to Twitter. Don't get your hopes up. It's Blue Sky, Threads and Mastodon. But I've been using it because those are the three places that at least for promotional posts like buy my son's book, salt, Hank, A five napkin situation, available in bookstores everywhere. And when I post that, I want to post it to Macedon.

[Paris Martino]

I kind of would like also a web version.

[Leo Laporte]

No, no, you have to have it on iPhone. I think it's nice. Every time you refresh it, it gives you a new prompt. Like right now, it says, put your words in me. Let me see what it says the next tweet. Hello world.

[Paris Martino]

That's just dumb.

[Leo Laporte]

No, I like it. So much is happening.

[Jeff Jarvis]

It's very different. 2010 Internet.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, well, I'm a 2010 Internet guy. How about this one? Drop some truth. Oh, geez.

[Paris Martino]

Okay, that. You lost me.

[Leo Laporte]

So it's a playful.

[Jeff Jarvis]

You should say truth doesn't exist. Impartiality is a nonsense.

[Leo Laporte]

Okay, Friedrich, let's see what. All right, I am, as I said, I am jaded, bored, and we're almost out of time. So let's each of you, you gotta.

[Paris Martino]

Go see the movie tonight.

[Leo Laporte]

I got tickets for the fight. Sit all alone.

[Benito]

We need to take out one pause.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, I'm gonna do a pause before the picks of the week. Don't worry, Bonito. I'm going to take care of your revenue generating opportunities. I don't think I'm going to go see Megalopolis in the theater. I. I think that sounds unbearably sad.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I mean, yeah, it would be sad.

[Leo Laporte]

For the only person sitting there all by myself.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Also. Yeah, I mean, I only really like seeing movies in the theater. If I go to one of the theaters that I that are near me that have good popcorn, they have tacos. And alcohol.

[Leo Laporte]

And alcohol, baby. Actually, our theater tried that. The problem.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I would recommend being a little inebriated for Megalopolis. It's definitely not a sober movie.

[Leo Laporte]

Especially in the Suburbs, Maybe. Maybe you New Yorkers do.

[Paris Martino]

But Kabbalah said to Howard Stern about going to the. To the Dome in Vegas now.

[Leo Laporte]

What?

[Jeff Jarvis]

No.

[Paris Martino]

And so she took Doug there as a surprise when they were in Vegas and she said, definitely do not go in there in an altered mind, altered state. Like, hi. And she said, yeah, don't. Which is I love, because that's our hope future president saying, yeah, I've been there.

[Leo Laporte]

Wow.

[Paris Martino]

Not just that I inhaled accidentally.

[Leo Laporte]

I feel like I want to hear less from our candidates, not more. Yeah, I think. Can we just get this damn thing over with? I'm so sick of this. Pick a story, any story.

[Paris Martino]

Paris.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Caroline Calloway announced that she's not evacu. Lives in Sarasota at a beachfront property and is not evacuating for the hurricane.

[Paris Martino]

She doing live.

[Leo Laporte]

Who is Caroline Calloway when she is.

[Jeff Jarvis]

A influencer who became famous over the past seven or eight years? I think there was originally some New York magazine.

[Leo Laporte]

She's not the Hawk to a girl.

[Jeff Jarvis]

No, she's not the hawk to a girl. She looks similar. She was, I think, well known for writing. That's all you did really long Instagram captions. And then became known as kind of a prolific scammer. She, like, did a bunch of low key and medium scams. One of the most famous of which, I don't know if this really counts, the scam is she had like an apartment in New York City that she really poorly painted. She painted around a bunch of piles of clothing on her floor and like half painted them. Basically trashed the apartment, never paid rent on it for like a year or two, and then got evicted and now lives in Florida and apparently is a.

[Leo Laporte]

Fan of wax lips. Look at that picture.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yes, Is apparently a fan of wax lips. So she announced on Twitter and Instagram yesterday that she's staying put in Sarasota, where Hurricane Milton is heading. And everyone was like, is this a bit. What's going on? She did an interview with New York Mag. She's like, no, I'm just staying. And I think I'm going to be fine. I'm in on the third floor of a building that's rated as hurricane safe, so we'll be all right.

[Leo Laporte]

So somebody tweeted her dying in a hurricane would be the perfect ending to her narrative. Oh, geez.

[Jeff Jarvis]

A little dark.

[Leo Laporte]

A little dark. So folks don't stick it out. Is it too late, though? It might be too late.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Right now it's too late. But yeah, right now. Maybe follow the advice of local authorities. In Tampa and nearby areas, which is, if you haven't done it, you're still there. If you've decided to stay, they say get a permanent marker and write your name, date of birth on your forehead. Contact for your next of kin on your arms or legs so that they can identify.

[Leo Laporte]

You're kidding.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah. No, that's the actual guidance.

[Leo Laporte]

That's pretty grim. That's dark as hell.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Very.

[Leo Laporte]

Please use an indelible marker and write your name on your arm so we know who to call.

[Jeff Jarvis]

X. I mean, part of the issue in some of these areas is when it is going to be. It is that devastating of a forecast. Emergency service providers are also evacuating.

[Leo Laporte]

Right.

[Jeff Jarvis]

There's no one to come get you until things have calmed down.

[Leo Laporte]

Well, I. That we were talking about this yesterday. The other side of the story is there's looting and people are afraid if they evacuate, looters will come in. On the other hand, wouldn't you rather lose your stuff than your life?

[Paris Martino]

Yeah.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah. And it's also, I mean, those looters, let's say if there are looters in some place like. Like where the hurricane's going to have a direct hit, those looters probably aren't going to get very far with your things before they are hit by a hurricane.

[Benito]

They're not looting your things. They're looting the supermarket for food because they can't leave.

[Leo Laporte]

That's what I would think. Really? Yeah. It's all sounds like another. More of that racist nonsense.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah, my family and stuff are fine. But it's been really dismaying to see the constant, I feel like, refrain you hear from Floridians during hurricane. Oh, we were fine during Ian or something else. So we're gonna be fine now. Hurricane's a big deal. It's gonna be worse than Ian.

[Benito]

It only takes one to wipe you out, man.

[Jeff Jarvis]

And for a lot of the places like Sarasota, where Callaway is and things like that, the notable difference is it's gonna be hitting kind of the north of them. And Floridians know the south and southeastern part of the hurricane is the most dangerous because that's gonna result in huge storm surge, which is really what a lot of the stuff is gonna come from.

[Leo Laporte]

The rising sea level.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Anyway, so that's my uplifting story for the day.

[Benito]

And, you know, like, none of the news ever, ever, ever brings up climate change. When they report on this circuit.

[Jeff Jarvis]

No one says it.

[Benito]

No one says it.

[Leo Laporte]

It's just going to become very obvious.

[Jeff Jarvis]

And I mean, for anybody out there who's poo pooing us for bringing this up, it is basic facts. I mean, the reason why you end up getting intensified storms like this and the reason why this storm in particular, I believe they said explosively intensified, is because hurricanes come from heated water in the Gulf and the water has been getting hotter. It's unusually hot right now, and that's what's been producing this megastorm. So quick on the heels of the last.

[Leo Laporte]

It's hot because of Jewish space lasers, right?

[Jeff Jarvis]

Oh, of course. Yeah. Yes.

[Leo Laporte]

Okay. Just checking. You know, this is one I don't want to be right about. I just wanted to.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I mean, I'd love to just be over cautious and have everybody be fine, but seeing what we saw with Helene recently seems unlikely.

[Leo Laporte]

I just. I feel for everybody and stay safe, folks, really. We have a lot of listeners who lost power, lost Internet in North Carolina. We always hearing from them. They were, you know, some of them were able to watch over other systems.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I mean, something that's worth noting for listeners who could be impacted by this or someone who could be impacted by this. If you have an iPhone or they do. The newest iOS update has a feature that could be really useful in this, which is if you've updated the latest iOS. If you're in an area without cell service, as people often are after this, you can send texts via satellite. And I believe in the wake of Hurricane Helene, people in kind of the North Carolina impacted areas were able to use the feature without any charge, but they were able to send text to loved ones saying, I'm all right, or I need.

[Leo Laporte]

Amazing. Really?

[Jeff Jarvis]

I don't know. Keep that in mind.

[Leo Laporte]

Satellite. Both the newer iPhones support satellite texting.

[Paris Martino]

Right. But how can you do that with no electricity? You have no screen.

[Leo Laporte]

Well, if your phone's dead, it won't work.

[Jeff Jarvis]

If your phone's dead, it won't work. But a thing a lot of people do in hurricanes, you keep your phone off until you need it. Right, Right.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah. The. The Wall Street Journal story I have in the rundown there at the top of the. And 1, 114.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah.

[Paris Martino]

Has a kind of animation of what?

[Leo Laporte]

And pixels. Pixels will do it. Some pixels also, you have to stand.

[Paris Martino]

There and point it at the right, that light, and it guides you to do so and then says, okay, you're in. You have to go outside, not under trees. Clouds are okay.

[Leo Laporte]

Paris. Have you ever been through a big hurricane? Sounds like you know a lot about them.

[Jeff Jarvis]

No, I mean, there were hurricanes a lot growing up but we never experienced much devastation in comparison to this.

[Benito]

I have growing up where I'm from.

[Leo Laporte]

Typhoons in the Philippines. Yeah.

[Benito]

So yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

So you have Bonita many times.

[Benito]

Yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

I mean terrifying.

[Benito]

It's old hat to me but these, these storms are a little stronger than, you know, what we were going through. We went through seasonal monsoon and things like that.

[Leo Laporte]

Right.

[Benito]

And there were typhoons. But not like Cat 5 of no, not like this.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah. I feel like we had like cat 2, cat 3, cat 4. But in most cases power came on after a couple days and it was the only impact to me was like having to spend days as a child picking up down trees and things like that. But it's quite sad what's about to happen.

[Paris Martino]

Yep.

[Leo Laporte]

Our thoughts, I want to say thoughts and prayers go out to you but anymore I really we stay safe if you can. All right, let's take a final break and then we'll get your picks of the week as we wrap things up on this week in Google. Imagine relying on a dozen different software programs to run your business, none of which are connected and each one more expensive and more complicated than the last. It can be pretty stressful. Now imagine Odoo. Odoo has all the programs you'll ever need and they're all connected on one platform. Platform. Doesn't Odoo sound amazing? Let Odoo harmonize your business with simple, efficient software that can handle everything for a fraction of the price. Sign up [e-mail] that's odoo.com at&t customers Switching to T Mobile has never been easier. We'll pay off your existing phone and.

[Paris Martino]

Give you a new one free.

[Leo Laporte]

All on America's largest 5G network. This visit t mobile.com carrierfreedom to switch today, pay off up to 650 via virtual prepaid MasterCard in 15 days. Free phone up to $830 via 24 monthly bill credits plus tax. Qualifying port and trade in service on Go 5G next and credit required. Contact us before canceling entire account to continue bill credits or credit stop and balance and required finance agreement is due pick of the week time. I like to start with Paris because Paris always has.

[Paris Martino]

She always has the good stuff.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I have kind of another silly pick. I was trying to think today of what I want to do for my Halloween costume. I was trying to remember all the things that had happened in 2024. And then I remember that there's a woman I follow on Twitter. I think Paige Skinner is her name that has been Keeping this Google Doc where she just almost every single day for the full year has been just jotting down what's happened, what's been happening in popular culture and it's a real delight to look through.

[Leo Laporte]

It's not always big news either, right?

[Jeff Jarvis]

Not always big news.

[Leo Laporte]

Selena Gomez says she told Sailor Swift about her friends hooking up at Golden Globes. Could be by that was January media.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Layoffs in the Dune 2 popcorn bucket. You know there are some just ones in these that are really funny. Like the cut $50,000 scam article.

[Leo Laporte]

Or is this going to be the new tweeting? Like don't tweet creates Google sheets that.

[Benito]

You then tweet February 25th as a whole.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, nothing happened.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah, no they. As the year goes on, it's clear that this person is living their life and kind of forgets to do it sometimes.

[Leo Laporte]

A lot of tick tock in here. A lot of TikTok.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Really an interesting mix of things.

[Leo Laporte]

I'm going to save this for. You know we do year end shows on this show and on Twitter and MacBreak. I got to save this and we could just go, go through it. May RFK's brain. May 9 Hailey Bieber pregnant. May 10 Northern lights in the US there you go.

[Jeff Jarvis]

July 25 JD Vance couch.

[Leo Laporte]

You know that, that, that story kind of went away, didn't it? Kind of drifted off into the.

[Jeff Jarvis]

August 4th RFK Jr. Jumped a bear in Central Park.

[Leo Laporte]

September 19th Tim Robinson nude Africa Olivia Nazi and RFK affair. Diddy on suicide watch. Wow, that was a dark day. Wow.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Really Just, you know, a lot of Yang parodies.

[Leo Laporte]

Chapel, Ronan, Mudang. Yeah, she's getting busy, isn't she? It's like good to see.

[Paris Martino]

It's good to see.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I mean it's good. It would be a little sad if it was still going on in full. Let me see. February 21st, Biden dog commander has bitten 24 says Secret Service.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, that was a big story that kind of nobody talks about anymore.

[Paris Martino]

Harris, if I may, I think I have the help for you for Halloween.

[Jeff Jarvis]

All right.

[Paris Martino]

Because we have a story here from Tom's Guide about a.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Right now I'm thinking of being the RFK brainworm.

[Leo Laporte]

That would be good.

[Paris Martino]

Or I think you should be the bear.

[Leo Laporte]

So you still do a Halloween costume even though you don't work in an office or you do work in an office.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I do work in an office.

[Paris Martino]

Okay.

[Leo Laporte]

Okay.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I don't know if I wearing it to the office would be the highlight for me. I, I have a pretty Popping neighborhood for Halloween. So I'd wear it around there. Just kind of walk around the parties. Oh, yeah. I was the Ocean Gate submersible last year and groups of children were oohing and awing and stalking me for photos.

[Leo Laporte]

So you made a giant, like, bean that you wore a photo of that. Did it explode periodically? Did periodically you just go down flattening.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I've got the part that I had an ocean gate.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, so you were just flattened. This was the post.

[Paris Martino]

Oh, you were flat.

[Jeff Jarvis]

That was the front of it. You can kind of see the guys in there.

[Paris Martino]

Oh, geez.

[Jeff Jarvis]

They're not the actual guys. I wasn't that dark. And then I had an Ocean Gate hat on. I don't know.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, that's good. I like it. So you like to do topical costumes?

[Jeff Jarvis]

I like to do a topical. Ideally something that's not. Not a person. I was the ever given container ship in the Suez Canal one year.

[Leo Laporte]

That's good. That's good.

[Paris Martino]

I like that.

[Leo Laporte]

The one that got stuck. Yeah.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah.

[Paris Martino]

So Amanda Caswell at Tom's Guide went to Meta AI and perhaps you could do this for Paris Leo. Oh, and asked what she should be for Halloween and she says, why didn't I think of that sooner?

[Leo Laporte]

So what did she get?

[Jeff Jarvis]

Oh, I hate this.

[Paris Martino]

I hate this so much.

[Jeff Jarvis]

This sucks. Meta suggests create a colorful costume with a pinata inspired design. You can use cardboard, felt, or even balloons to create the pinata shape. This is Meta AI suggests dress up a vintage suitcase with a fun twist. You can use cardboard or foam to create the suitcase shape and add some travel stickers. To be clear, the AI is suggesting I go as a suitcase, not a time traveler with a suitcase.

[Leo Laporte]

Hey, Meta, can you make some Halloween costume suggestions for me? I wish I could suggest Halloween costumes.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Like a witch vampire.

[Leo Laporte]

Which vampire would you like? More ideas. That's terrible. At least give me a forgotten library book. I don't.

[Paris Martino]

I asked Metadata AI, my friend is a nihilist. What she do for Halloween. All right.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, that's good.

[Paris Martino]

Number one.

[Jeff Jarvis]

The correct answer should be nothing.

[Paris Martino]

The absurdity of existence. Dress up as a random meaningless object. Eg, a cardboard box, a leaf or a forgotten sock or a plastic bag.

[Jeff Jarvis]

That's what I look for.

[Paris Martino]

To the void. We are all black with a black hood or mask symbolizing the emptiness of existence.

[Jeff Jarvis]

That's really good.

[Paris Martino]

It is a forgotten soul. Dress as a ghost with a sign that says no one remembers me or the meaningless reaper. Dress up as death, but with a twist. Carry a scythe with A rubber chicken or a whoopee cushion attached. Activity ideas for you and your friends. Host an existential crisis party. Decorate with absurd, contradictory or meaningless signs and symbols. 2. Attend a Halloween party, but only to highlight the futility of social interactions.

[Jeff Jarvis]

These are all actually entirely accurate.

[Leo Laporte]

My friend is a journalism professor. What should he dress up for as Halloween? Clark Kent, Superman. Old school reporter.

[Paris Martino]

Do it on Meta AI that's ChatGPT.

[Leo Laporte]

This is ChatGPT. Citizen Kane. Edward R. Murray will be throwing an.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Existential crisis party, though that's party Harris.

[Paris Martino]

You should go on a search for meaning scavenger hunt where clues lead to more questions, not answers. Brilliant.

[Jeff Jarvis]

This is actually really good.

[Leo Laporte]

This is really good.

[Paris Martino]

Organize a nothingness movie marathon featuring films with existential or absurdist themes.

[Leo Laporte]

Let me try the optimistic nihilist on ChatGPT. The void, but make it sparkly. Existential detective smiling grim reaper. Combine a classic grim reaper robe in scythe with a big goofy smile and upbeat accessories like party hats or balloons. Medusa. A twist of Medusa where a snake covered wig and Greek inspired outfit. Have a nonchalant or board expression. Make signs that say turn to stone. Yeah, that's. This dessert. You know what? Okay.

[Paris Martino]

Because you got to be a nihilist. That's the point.

[Leo Laporte]

Good.

[Paris Martino]

Create a graveyard of lost streams with tombstones. Burying absurd epitaphs.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I. They really got me on the go as a meaningless household object.

[Leo Laporte]

That's.

[Jeff Jarvis]

That's kind of the vibe I'm trying to bring to every Halloween.

[Leo Laporte]

I am a whisk.

[Benito]

There's also that Japanese tradition of going as like, really mundane situations, like person waiting at a gas station or stop and they have stop with them.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah, I've always wanted to do just the. The bag of plastic bags that's like under the sink.

[Leo Laporte]

Wow. You guys are so much more creative than me. I was just gonna, you know, go as a baseball player.

[Paris Martino]

So how. How should we describe you, Leo? What should you go as? Oh, no, no, no, no. Let's do Bonito Benito. What?

[Leo Laporte]

How would we.

[Jeff Jarvis]

How would you describe.

[Leo Laporte]

What's a short description of Bonito?

[Paris Martino]

I want a description of Bonito's psyche.

[Benito]

Oh, what do you mean?

[Leo Laporte]

Like, what's your philosophy? I'm.

[Benito]

I'm very, very much aligned with Paris. Like, I'm kind of the same way.

[Leo Laporte]

You can't be an optimistic nihilist. That's taken. Taken?

[Paris Martino]

No, it's already taken. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Benito]

But I have the. I have the pin and everything. I have a pin and everything.

[Leo Laporte]

Are you in the club? Oh, this is optimistic nihilism.

[Benito]

And what the hell?

[Leo Laporte]

Maybe we have to change.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Maybe I have to not be the one. Yeah.

[Paris Martino]

Right.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Wow, that's really good. That was really good.

[Paris Martino]

All right, let's see.

[Jeff Jarvis]

That's the first good chat. Another experience I've had.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah, that's amazing.

[Paris Martino]

Voiced former radio DJ, now podcaster. What should he go as for Halloween, question mark? Well, pretty obvious. No dress up a 50s DJ. No. Podcasting phantom. Where a ghostly outfit with a headset microphone.

[Leo Laporte]

No, no, no, that's terrible. Okay, stop. Your turn for Jeff's pick of the week.

[Paris Martino]

Oh, that was pretty good, actually, but.

[Leo Laporte]

You can stop now.

[Paris Martino]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. My sushi's not ready for another 40 minutes, so.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, dear.

[Paris Martino]

Fine.

[Leo Laporte]

We are ending too early here.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah. Which is unusual. I just put the order in because they take forever, but it's good. All right, two things real quick. At a Dutch museum, the maintenance guy threw away a whole exhibit.

[Leo Laporte]

Of course.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I love that.

[Leo Laporte]

Was it a banana?

[Paris Martino]

No, the exhibit was two beer cans entitled all the Good Times we Spent Together. They thought it was rubbish.

[Leo Laporte]

Of course they did.

[Paris Martino]

Perfectly.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I'm such a freak. I would see that and be, like, deeply moved.

[Paris Martino]

Yes, yes. So the curator came along and discovered it was missing, realized what was happened, managed to rescue the beer cans out of the garbage. Makes clear that we don't blame the custodian because it would only be logical and make sense. And was only trying to do his job. He was new on the job. And so then they took the exhibit and put it elsewhere on a pedestal. So you knew it was art.

[Leo Laporte]

I think it's a real statement, frankly. I commend the custodian. I think he did the right thing.

[Paris Martino]

I think he did too.

[Jeff Jarvis]

In middle school, I was. Went to a. Some exhibit in D.C. at the National Art Museum, but there was a girl on our trip who had, like, long jean pants that were dragging on the floor. Fancy pants always kind of tap. Always kind of tattered. And at one point, we get in this big room and everyone's kind of gathered around looking at something on the floor, and it's a long piece of denim that's, like, tattered and, you know, really artfully arranged. And then I look around and realize it came off of that girl's jeans and everyone just thought it was art.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, God.

[Paris Martino]

All right, my other one is this. So Mark Zuckerberg is trying to become the ideal husband on earth. He made. He commissioned a whole statue for his wife, Priscilla Chan.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. By the way, ugly ass statue.

[Paris Martino]

Well, yes, but. Hey, it's a statue. My wife doesn't have a statue. Does Lisa have a statue? Have you made it? Have you got a statue for Lisa, Leo?

[Leo Laporte]

No, but I think that's a good idea.

[Paris Martino]

See? Right. So at least he has a statue. So now he decided she wanted a minivan. So on his Facebook, of course, he has pictures of having designed for her a custom Porsche Cayenne Turbo GT minivan.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, my God.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Threw in a manual GT3 Touring to make it his and hers.

[Paris Martino]

So his is the. Is the midlife crisis car, and hers is the minivan, but they're both Porsches.

[Jeff Jarvis]

What an insane place. This is photographed and I guess it's the car show where they.

[Leo Laporte]

No, I think it's a. It's a dealer's.

[Paris Martino]

Well, it's. It's a. It's a re. Rebuilding place. One of those.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, custom customizer.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah. So he designed it.

[Leo Laporte]

Well, Priscilla, you married. Well, that's all I can say. I mean, really, if you are infinitely wealthy, think of the challenge of gift giving, because it. You can't just, you know, buy a box of chocolates. It would just really be challenging.

[Jeff Jarvis]

What a hard life he lives.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah.

[Benito]

Seriously.

[Paris Martino]

Oh, boohoo. Yeah. Yeah, boohoo. Yeah, boohoo.

[Jeff Jarvis]

He has to build his wife a statue.

[Leo Laporte]

Little. I wish to give you a palace in Bavaria. What about that? That would be. I think real estate is always welcome.

[Paris Martino]

Well, he's got the Hawaii.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, that's true. He doesn't need it.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Palace.

[Paris Martino]

I also want to mention, because Paris introduced me to this, and I love if Books Could Kill. And I hope and pray none of my books ever ends up on if Books Could Kill. And they have a teaser, which I guess they do. Paris.

[Jeff Jarvis]

The teasers are for their Patreon episodes, which are like a membership. It's kind of like Club Twit, where it's like, you can pay. What is it, like, $5 a month, and then you get access to their special episodes because this is great.

[Paris Martino]

So they did Glenn Kessler retirement.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Oh, this is such a good.

[Paris Martino]

He's the fact checker at the Washington Post.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh.

[Paris Martino]

Who has reached new levels of pedantry.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, gosh.

[Paris Martino]

And it's. I only listen to the teaser now I have to pay money to listen to the rest, and I will because it is brilliant. It is.

[Leo Laporte]

So what is the. The podcast if Books Could Kill. Remind me.

[Paris Martino]

You describe it. Paris.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Basically, they. It started with them taking on, like, airport books and incredible, like, books that are really popular and popular culture, like. And Deeply analyzing and kind of ripping them apart like the secret rich dad, poor dad, and really, really, really researching.

[Paris Martino]

It's not just.

[Jeff Jarvis]

No. Incredibly well researched. They probably read like five book. Five other books for every episode. They talk to people. They read studies like it is a very well researched endeavor. And it kind of goes into both the meaning of the book, what things have been misinterpreted, what things the authors m. Misinterpreted. I'd highly recommend it.

[Paris Martino]

They did. They did Jonathan Height and it made me so happy. Tore him to bits.

[Leo Laporte]

Wow. And who are they?

[Jeff Jarvis]

They also did the Coddling of the American Mind, which is Jonathan Height's other earlier book. It's quite good.

[Paris Martino]

Michael Hobbs is one of them. And who's the other one?

[Jeff Jarvis]

Peter Sham Seri, who is from five four, a podcast about how much the Supreme Court sucks that I'd really recommend to anybody if they're all right with. Imagine the tenor of Ed +4 people with law degrees. Yeah.

[Paris Martino]

And they basically story I. I can't came late.

[Jeff Jarvis]

He, I'd say is like one of the most prolific and successful podcasters of the modern time. And I mean podcaster as in like podcast specifically, not the live show sort of thing we were doing right now. He, I think was a reporter at the Huffington Post and some other places, but really took off with, oh, I'm forgetting the name of. You're wrong about a podcast you had named Sarah Marshall that was phenomenal and went on for a couple of years. Then he started hosting a podcast with Aubrey Gordon that I'd really recommend called Maintenance Phase, which is about kind of. Of demystifying, like, wellness trends. And they had brought up the concept of the bmi, like being a totally bunk statistic made up originally by insurance companies long before it kind of that became known in the popular sphere. A really. Another phenomenally well researched podcast and very funny. And recently he launched if Books Could Kill with Peter Shamsari.

[Leo Laporte]

Well, there you go. And they have a Patreon page which will let you listen to the entire episode of Glenn Kessler Retail Retire, biatch.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah, it's all right if you pronounce it like that.

[Leo Laporte]

Is it?

[Paris Martino]

Oh, okay.

[Jeff Jarvis]

No.

[Leo Laporte]

Hey, I am about to retire. This show has put me right out. Thank you for being here. We appreciate it. Ms. Paris.nyc. gosh, man, you gotta do something with that.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

I don't know what it is, but so it says.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Great, right?

[Leo Laporte]

It's so good.

[Paris Martino]

It's perfect.

[Leo Laporte]

Paris writes for the information. You'll see her in the weekend and Covers issues of young people in the Internet. You can send her a tip. She's.

[Paris Martino]

And she covers youth soccer games to you.

[Leo Laporte]

You flag football.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I've got a request this week, if you are a listener that has a child that uses AI chat bots in any way, either for search, companionship or otherwise, reach out to me. I'd love to chat.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, I love that.

[Paris Martino]

Where would they reach out? Paris.

[Jeff Jarvis]

You'd reach out via signal at Martineau 01. Or if you go to my Twitter at Paris Martino, there's a bunch of other ways to reach out to me there too. It's also on my website, Paris nyc. My, you know, work phone numbers there, my email, some other things. Reach out. I'd love to chat.

[Leo Laporte]

And if you do use signal, don't use your work phone.

[Paris Martino]

Yes, well, this is not terribly, I.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Mean, this is not terribly.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, we don't know. You know, by the way, that is one wild website you got there, young lady.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Right.

[Leo Laporte]

What is going on?

[Jeff Jarvis]

Wiggle your.

[Paris Martino]

Wiggle your mouth any less.

[Leo Laporte]

Are we.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

Are we, are we going down to the Titanic? What's going on here?

[Jeff Jarvis]

There you are. Yeah, yeah. You know, I think it's kind of fun.

[Leo Laporte]

And this is so cool.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Oh, and click photos of my cat up at the top.

[Leo Laporte]

The more I know about Paris, the more I like her. She there. Oh, hello, Gizmo.

[Paris Martino]

Gizmo.

[Leo Laporte]

She's a sweetie hiding behind a plant. How. Yeah, no one could see you. Gizmo a Paris. Thank you for being here. The information.com everybody should subscribe. Jeff Jarvis is the emeritus professor of journalistic innovation at the Craig Newmark Newmark Graduate School of Journalism at the City University of New York.

[Paris Martino]

Next week. I can say one of the things that I'm doing next, but I can't.

[Leo Laporte]

Well, what he's really is and I think everybody should remember this is a great author who is, I think you're going to be, you're going to go down as like one of these, you know, historians who writes about modern times. The web we weave is the newest why we must Reclaim the Internet.

[Jeff Jarvis]

It's a fantastic read.

[Leo Laporte]

It is really good. The Gutenberg Parenthesis magazine. And he's writing a new one, I think. Forget this teaching. Forget the teaching. Just.

[Paris Martino]

I know, I wonder why I'm buried right now and needing to write my book.

[Leo Laporte]

But do you enjoy it? Is the process function?

[Paris Martino]

No.

[Jeff Jarvis]

No.

[Paris Martino]

Writing is pain. Yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

But having written is the best.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Yes. Having written rules, writing, I mean, said.

[Paris Martino]

What I want to say so much.

[Leo Laporte]

It's so painful. And, I mean, I'm a competent writer, but it's just hard work. And I never had sting.

[Jeff Jarvis]

From yourself. Yeah.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. And you have so much research.

[Paris Martino]

And so this book I wanted. I have a lot of research on this book. This book is about the Linotype. And I wanted something was narrative, and I'd never really done that apart from a news story. So I finally had to figure it out. After a while. I said, I'll use somebody's narrative and I'll get the damn chapter written. And then I go back through every source and put in the better quotes and better this and better that. And then I go back through and sand and sand and sand.

[Leo Laporte]

All right, here's a $64,000 question. Use any AI in this stuff?

[Paris Martino]

Nope. Nope. I wish I could figure out how to, but no.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. Paris, you don't use AI either in your writing? No, just for customers.

[Paris Martino]

She likes the pain.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I do like the pain. I think my most recent article, I hand wrote out after I had gone through all my different interviews highlighted in, you know, the text transcriptions. The parts I wanted, I went through and hand wrote out on paper. All the relevant parts I wanted to include from each interview, color coded it, and then hand wrote an outline that incorporated all of those.

[Paris Martino]

Once through. When you write it, you write it. Or do you write it and then rewrite and rewrite? Rewrite.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I write it once through. But as I'm doing that, I write and rewrite various sentences, but I do it. I write and rewrite the structure a lot. I'm one of those people who, especially in a feature, I can't really get going on it unless I get the top right. The lead, as they say.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, yeah.

[Jeff Jarvis]

So I will often write and rewrite the lead for like a day. And then the next part comes a lot easier.

[Paris Martino]

My original training as a rewrite man, sorry for the sexist nature, was that I would have to write something on deadline and it would go down to the composing room as I was writing, which I think in the class. So what I learned to do was to write really fast to get a structure and then spend every minute editing. Wow.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Wow.

[Paris Martino]

And then the computer changed all that because then I didn't have to wave goodbye to it and I could go change things around.

[Leo Laporte]

Right. Thank you so much, guys. It's wonderful to meet with you. Every Wednesday we do the show about 2pm Pacific, 5pm Eastern, 2100 UTC. At least for the rest of the month. Month. Thanks to the Candy makers of America. We don't Change to daylight standard. To standard time. Until. Until. We're sneaking up on you, Jeff. We don't change the standard time until next month. But for now, anyway. 2100 UTC.

[Paris Martino]

Herself. Yes.

[Leo Laporte]

She went. She dropped it. I immediately followed suit.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Thank you.

[Paris Martino]

Has a. What do you call it? A card for the show. Yeah.

[Benito]

A little thumbnail.

[Paris Martino]

Yeah. Thumbnail.

[Leo Laporte]

Yeah. Should we do anything else?

[Paris Martino]

We should go lower.

[Leo Laporte]

What should we do for YouTube? Oh, yeah.

[Jeff Jarvis]

I don't know if I can go lower.

[Paris Martino]

Kilroy. We should all do Kilroy.

[Leo Laporte]

Oh, this is so sad. All of this just to get a click on YouTube.

[Paris Martino]

You're out of focus, Leo.

[Leo Laporte]

Because I can't see my eyes.

[Jeff Jarvis]

Gizmo wants to know what's going on.

[Leo Laporte]

By the way, I just want to reassure everybody, Gizmo has not eaten any Haitians during this episode.

[Jeff Jarvis]

None.

[Leo Laporte]

That's a lie being spread by irresponsible politicians. We do this show, as I said, every Wednesday, 2pm Pacific. You can watch us live on seven different streams. YouTube, Twitch, Facebook, LinkedIn, X dot com, kick. And of course, if you're a member of the club, and I hope you are, I mean, isn't this worth $7 right here?

[Jeff Jarvis]

This is the content you pay for.

[Leo Laporte]

This is what you're paying for. You can. You can watch us in your club. Twit. Discord. Do join the club. Seven bucks a month ad. Free versions of all the shows, access to the Discord, lots of special stuff. Stacy's book club is coming up at the end of the month. We're going to do a coffee episode next week. Micah's creative corner. A lot of great things in the club. So join it because it's a great club you want to be a member of and it helps us out. Twitter, TV Club, Twit. Thank you, everybody. After the fact, get on demand versions of the show at the website. Twit tv Twig. Oh, wait a minute. Let's do the mime thing. This is so sad for people listening to audio. There's literally nothing but me grunting. Anyway, anyway, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. What was I saying? Oh, yes. On demand ad twig. You can watch on YouTube. You can subscribe. I don't know why you'd watch to audio or video, but get the video because that's when all the site gags work. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next time on this Week at Google. After investing billions to light up our network, T Mobile is America's largest 5G network. Plus, right now, you can switch. Keep your phone and we'll pay it off up to $800. See how you can save on every plan versus Verizon and at&t@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service ported 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months. You may not realize it, but every minute of every day you're enjoying your First Amendment freedoms. You can wear what you want, give out your opinion for free, even if it's unpopular. Listen to your playlist. You can put a sign out on your front lawn that says vote for Bigfoot. Someone you can believe in. Pray to the God of your choice. Or don't you have the right to hang with a posse that thinks like you do? Tell the government what you think about its policies. They're the freedoms that let you be you and they're all brought to you by the First Amendment. Learn more at freedomforum.org how do you feel when you switch to GEICO and save on your car insurance? It's like going to work on one Thursday morning and thinking to yourself, just one more day until Friday. But then somebody in the elevator says Happy Friday. Then you check your phone quickly and discover today is actually Friday. So yes, Happy Friday. Random stranger in the elevator. Happy Friday indeed. Yep, switching and saving with GEICO feels just like that. Get more with GEICO.