← Into Africa
Loading summary
Transcript35 lines
- [00:02]
Katherine Suzuki
By the year 2050, one in four people on the planet will be African. The choices that we make now across Africa will shape the world's collective future. Welcome to the Youth Bloom, where we explore the stories, the trends and the issues we face in the present that will define the coming decades. I'm your host, Katherine Suzuki. 3.7 million Nigerians are internally displaced due to conflict, insurgencies and climate related disasters. Roughly 2,000 people were killed in the first half of 2025 by bandits or insurgents than in all of 2024 and this past month alone, 700 people were believed to be dead after deadly floods hit the Nigerian town of Mokwa. To better understand the drivers of displacement in Nigeria, the lives of IDPs and how the Nigerian government is responding, I'm joined by the UN Refugee agency representative in Nigeria.
- [01:21]
Arjun Jain
My name is Arjun Jain. I'm the country representative for the UN Refugee agency in Nigeria.
- [01:28]
Katherine Suzuki
So Arjun, welcome to the show.
- [01:31]
Arjun Jain
Thanks so much.
- [01:32]
Katherine Suzuki
To start off, please could you provide us with some context? What are the causes of internal displacement in Nigeria?
- [01:40]
Arjun Jain
So globally There are around 123 million people who are forced to be displaced. A large number of them are internally displaced people within their own borders. Nigerians constitute 3% of that number and that's huge for a country that is a powerhouse in Africa. 3% is roughly around 4 million people. We're looking at 3.6, 3.7 million people who are internally displaced and around 400,000 people who are displaced in neighboring countries of Niger, Cameroon and Chad. Now the drivers for displacement are different in different parts of the country. In the northeast, as you know, there's an insurgency raging for the past 15 to 20 years and most people who are being displaced have been displaced because of that. Insurgency started with Boko Haram, but now you have, you know, different insurgency groups there with different ideologies. But there is a terrorizing of a community that just wants to get on with their lives. In the northwest, you have a lot of banditry and a lot of fight over resources that is resulting in massive displacement. It's a bit more hidden, it's a little less attention grabbing. But the violence in the northwest is quite extreme nowadays. And then you have the middle belt. You must have read in the News recently on June 13, I think around 200 people from the farming community were killed. We were first on the ground there and that night our teams were working against the clock to provide life saving support to people who were fleeing that violence. And we are still there. There, there is a conflict of resources. There's a conflict of lifestyles, there's a conflict at and a need to gain identity. And all these things put together is resulting in Benway state, in the middle of the country, being the second largest state hosting displaced communities. Now, in addition to the IDP communities, which is ever growing every week, we also have Nigeria hosting around 140,000 refugees, mainly from Cameroon, and they do so very generously. Nigeria, and I would say across Africa, countries have been very welcoming of refugees. In Nigeria, a lot of people say that the Cameroonians are welcome here because during the Wars in the 70s, we sought asylum in Cameroon. And so we need to pay back and we need to host them. So the drivers of conflict and drivers of displacement are significant across the whole country. And they vary and they change. But what it does do is have such a negative impact on communities. Lives are on hold, the economy is being impacted and whole villages are fractured because of the displacement occurring that is so widespread and so yet ignored.
- [04:23]
Katherine Suzuki
Yeah. And what is the situation like for quote, unquote, your average displaced person in Nigeria? What are the resources available to them? What sort of opportunities are there for making a livelihood after being forcibly displaced?
- [04:40]
Arjun Jain
So I think we have to look at the whole country and the economy to begin with. To answer that question, we've had a government that has come in and has improved the macroeconomic prospects of the country. So the fuel subsidies have been removed, the foreign exchange reserves have gone up. There are a lot of positive measures that the IMF has spoken about in terms of Nigeria's economic development, but it'll take some time for those benefits to trickle down to the communities. And we don't have a strong social safety net that is in place to protect these communities. So it is in the larger context of an economy that has to change course that displacement is taking place in. So what's interesting is when we talk to displaced communities and their host communities across the country and we say, what do you want? They say, we want to go back home. And when we can help them out, we definitely have to. But when we can't because the insurgency has destroyed their places or it's still unsafe for them to return, they go, we just want a job. We don't want your handouts. We want to live in dignity. Just help us get a job. Now. We don't know how to do that. So we've gone to the private sector in Lagos saying, can you help us out? And they really were astonished to learn about the extent of the crisis. More interestingly, it took them Some time to register the fact that these displaced communities could be agents of change, that these communities could really help with the economic development of their own communities and neighborhoods. And that is changing the conversation. And so we're trying to address some of the biggest challenges, but listening carefully to displaced communities. When they go give us a job, we don't want handouts. We want to take care of ourselves. And the day when we do do that and when the community say, thanks for all that, but we don't need you anymore, is probably the happiest days.
- [06:30]
Katherine Suzuki
Yeah. And I want to pull on the two points you made. One on perceptions and one on the role of the private sector. You know, truthfully, I've never been to Nigeria. I love to visit. I did a whole episode, actually, on De Semper, and I would like to go see it at least, you know, metropolitan Lagos. But it seems like there is varying perceptions on the displacement crisis in Nigeria, depending on where you live. And I wonder what role geography plays. Like, do people in Lagos worry as much about the drivers of displacement as people, let's say, in the Middle Belt, do? I'm not phrasing this very well, but I'm just curious about varying perceptions and how geography plays a role.
- [07:14]
Arjun Jain
So I think if you, again, just zoom out a bit, and it's clear that Nigerians, both inside Africa and beyond Africa, have traveled, you know, across the continent and across the world, and they are well known. Nigerians actually carry a very strong identity with them, which is actually very powerful, be it the Afrobeats, be it the design and art and culture, be it the business acumen. And I think they're very proud people. But when you zoom in, identity is more linked to the state where you come from, the tribe that you belong to, and the religion that you hold. Right. And those three elements are very key to anyone's identity. And I think that's true of many parts of West Africa as well. So when you look at the state, there is a bit of a divide. When you look at the country, you have a largely Muslim majority in the north, a largely Christian majority in the south. But the south is also where development is moving at a rapid pace, where, whereas in the north, we don't see private businesses invest that much, partly because of the security situation, but also because I think people are not familiar with what's going on in Lagos. People had not visited some of the communities that we visited, and they openly admitted that. When we go to places like Banki and Bama and Goza and Pulka and Borno state, they're like, are you crazy? So we did have a challenge overcoming that, but. But it's not like they're close minded. They really want to know more about their country. It's just that they're so busy doing stuff in Lagos that it's sometimes hard. And there are great economic opportunities in the north, land galore, labor easily available. And so these are the opportunities we need to bring to the attention of people in Lagos who are willing to jump in and help their own communities and help their own country and their own countrymen up north. At the same time, we see a lot of people in the north who don't understand Lagos as well. So I think it works both ways.
- [09:07]
Katherine Suzuki
Arjun, I'm curious about the capacity of the Nigerian government to provide relief to displaced people. The sort of immediate needs that people need like food, shelter, access to healthcare. And even at the state level, are there some states with perhaps a better capacity to absorb displaced people than others?
- [09:29]
Arjun Jain
So generally, I think Nigeria spends a very low percentage of its GDPs on things like education, healthcare and social services. Right. Essential services. So it's not just the displaced communities that are facing these challenges. We've been to remote parts of Nigeria where the health post is really ill equipped. Nobody's handling it. Nobody's actually manning that position. The, the same thing with some of the schools. And yet you have Nigerians who have such a thirst for knowledge and they do everything to overcome these hurdles that are in their way. When it comes to displaced communities, we've seen that the government of Nigeria has improved its capacity to respond. It does matter what the central government does, the federal government does, but it also matters what the state governments do. Borno, for instance, is more equipped to deal with this because they've been dealing with the insurgency for many, many years. But sometimes these crises are a bit too much for anyone to handle. And that's when they call on us to provide support. The floods that you mentioned early on that happened in Niger State is a good example. The killings that occurred on June 13th in Benue State is another such instance. The massive flooding in Borno last year, late last year, is yet another example of where we were there to support the government. We do not want to substitute the government. There's nothing that we want to do that would allow the government to shirk from its responsibilities. And the government really appreciates that. What we want to do is provide that support, be it technical support on improving its emergency response, or sometimes supporting the assistance already provided. I am confident that with A bit more effort, Nigeria could probably respond to emergencies and displacement far more effectively. And I think they're already doing more than most other countries are. Let's not forget that Nigeria, and for that matter, most African states have an open door policy. They don't stop asylum seekers and refugees from coming into their country. Let's not forget that most African countries actually allow refugees the freedom of movement and the right to work. Now, it's for us to actually take these policies and make it into reality for the communities. The challenge that communities face is not due to policy hurdles, is because of a resource issue. And if we can help African countries with a little bit of assistance, I think they'll be able to manage a lot more on their own.
- [11:57]
Katherine Suzuki
You know, speaking about this resource crunch, given the global aid cuts, I'm curious how your work in Nigeria as the UN refugee agency has been impacted. And I actually quoted you earlier with the episode we did with Abdul Rauv, how, how you're doing less with less.
- [12:16]
Arjun Jain
So we are gonna be doing less with less. That's quite obvious. We are already doing less with less. But let me tell you how people are being impacted already. We work with displaced communities, including the Northeast. We monitor them, we support them. We identify people with specific risks. You know, single parents, women and children at risk, unaccompanied and separated children, so that we can make sure that they get the attention that they need, they don't fall through the cracks. We can't do that anymore in many places. So a lot more people who are in desperate need of support are falling through the cracks. This is the height of the lean season. The lean season is where food is very scarce. They're planting crops, but they don't have any money to feed themselves. So even if there is food in the market, they can't afford it. And so wfp, the World Food Program, has had to reduce its food assistance programs in these fragile communities. And as a consequence, more people are unable to purchase food or get food vouchers and they can't feed themselves and their families, which means there's more food insecurity, which is leading to a higher level of malnutrition this year compared to last year. And then this problem ends up on UNICEF's doorstep. That is dealing with nutritional issues. And we've been to an MSF facility just two weeks ago, and the beds were half full. Last week they were all full. We believe that by next month they will be overflowing. And that is true of UNICEF facilities. Save the Children, you know, and Others, one of the biggest challenges that they're facing is that they don't have enough pets, they don't have enough staff to protect and support these communities. Right. And that becomes a vicious cycle because a lot of people desperately in need of food then resort to survival, sex, child labor, and that becomes our problem again. And we don't have the resources to stop this cycle of desperation that is happening right now as we speak, across northern Nigeria. It's not a question of will people die? It's not even a question of when will people die. What we are saying is that people are dying right now because of the lack of support.
- [14:26]
Katherine Suzuki
Do you have any estimates for the number of children specifically that are suffering from malnutrition right now?
- [14:34]
Arjun Jain
Well, the situation's ongoing, but there was a really interesting UNICEF report last year that said at the height of the lean season, 100 children were dying every hour.
- [14:45]
Katherine Suzuki
Every hour.
- [14:46]
Arjun Jain
Due to malnutrition. Every hour. And this is Nigeria. This is happening across the Sahel. This is happening across many other countries. And it's not like the government doesn't want to do something about it. It's just that they are not resourced to do what they have to do.
- [15:00]
Katherine Suzuki
I mean, this is either the largest or second largest economy we have in Africa. You know, I don't want to be overwhelmed by the scale of this problem, but, you know, 100 lives every hour at its worst is staggering. And this is what our second largest economy on the continent has to contend with. It's. I guess I'm struck by the scale of this crisis, and I'm also struck by how dependent our communities were a lot of times and are on foreign assistance. I mean, the aim of this podcast is to actually focus on the lives of African youth and the opportunities or the lack thereof that we have. But I think this has been a reminder that for somebody to even become, quote, unquote, a youth, they are shaped largely by, you know, where they're born and what they have access to. And so, in as much as I like to focus on women, what are the structural changes we can make to reap Africa's demographic dividend? Like, this is a reminder that there are core crises.
- [16:08]
Arjun Jain
Absolutely. But look, it's not all doom and gloom here, and I think it's important to also focus on what is being done. Right. A lot of youth have gotten out of poverty in Africa due to the creatives, the music industry, the designs, the fabrics, the art. And it's one of the most vibrant societies I have ever come across. The Literature, and Nigeria is full of that. And the youth are the ones driving that change and driving that creativity coming out. We've seen people who have forced themselves, despite the level of poverty, to go put themselves through school, and they are so much more energized and ambitious. And after having been in D.C. for this past week, there's one thing that struck me, and I'm quite shocked by this analogy. But both in Nigeria and both in the US We've seen young people engage in serving their country, be it on the hill in D.C. or be it with the State Department or other parts of the government, or be it in Nigeria at the presidential palace or with other ministries. There are young people who really care about their communities, the people who care about their country, and they know the problems that they're facing and they want to make it better. And what I see in a country like Nigeria and in a country like the US is that the youth are really driving that change. These are young people who are smart, who are ambitious, who are creative. And when you have a community like that, you have to know that this country is going to be all right.
- [17:43]
Katherine Suzuki
Yeah. Thank you for stopping my doom spiral. I often ask myself how humanitarians, how y' all do the work that you do, And I think I just saw at least one of the tools you guys have in action, which is stop the doom spiral. And so speaking about the positives, do you have examples or stories of the Nigerian private sector creating jobs and opportunities in the north?
- [18:08]
Arjun Jain
Yeah, absolutely. Look, some of the best private sector partners that we're working with actually have a strong footprint in the north, but also willing to work in the south. There's an amazing company called TGI Tropical General Investments, and they are the largest rice producer in the country. And they also have other value chains. And they were the first to say, what can we do to help? And so they're doing a lot of training for farmers. They're doing a lot of zero interest loans, you know, agri inputs, fertilizers, seeds, and they also pick up the produce once it's grown. And so the farmers have support from the private sector throughout the farming season. What's really interesting about TGI is that they build in deliberate inefficiencies, which means they don't want to do large scale farming as much as support small farmers. So, you know, with a couple of hectares of land or even an acre of land, provide them with the support so that they can take care of their own families. It's a model that we've adopted we've got around 2,500 hectares allocated to projects that we want to work on in relocating displaced communities. That's the size of Oklahoma City. Right. And we put one family on every hectare of land. So we're talking about 2,500 families. And this is just a project we started six to seven months ago. So you can imagine the capacity of what we can do with the private sector. There's another company called Outsource Global, run by Amal. Absolutely extraordinary woman, comes from the north. She has started this business of out outsourcing activities, you know, transcription, call centers, things like that. I think she's the largest in Nigeria. She started four times, failed three times, and you know, she never gave up. And her company now employs around 3,000 young Nigerians. And she's more than happy to employ many of our refugees, many IDPs. She wants French speakers, she wants Arabic speakers, she wants people who can speak English fluently. And she doesn't need to, but she does come to us saying, hey, I know you have people who need a job. Let me see how I can help them, even if it means training them more. And again, it's all in the north. Lagos, but also Abuja and all in the north.
- [20:16]
Katherine Suzuki
Yeah, that's really beautiful to hear. And you know, even just picking up on the point you made earlier about agriculture, is it fair to assume that a lot of the people being displaced are farmers and that I wonder to what extent the fact that farmers are unable to farm on arable land because of conflict contributes to food insecurity in the north?
- [20:38]
Arjun Jain
I think you hit the nail on the head. Look, 80% of Nigerian land is agricultural land, all right? Benue is considered to be the food basket of the country. Borno was supplying the country with a vast amount of its agricultural outputs. And both these states have got the two largest number of displaced communities in the country. If you fly from Maiduguri to Banki, for instance, on the Cameroonian border, it's a 45 minute helicopter ride, but all you see are farmlands left fallow. All right, for 45 minutes, all you see is farms that have not been cultivated upon for 15 years because of the insurgency. So yes, it directly relates to self reliance, it directly relates to food security or insecurity, and that leads to malnutrition, that leads to deaths. As we were talking about earlier, it's a pretty vicious and desperate situation. If they were given the land to farm, they will do wonders. It's magical. Now in the north, they can only do one crop cycle because of the fact that they only cultivate during the rainy season. So we said, hey, why can't we do three crop cycles? We just have to push in an irrigation system. Well, easier said than done because we went there and did it. And then we realized we need to dig really deep. And then we go, how are we going to power this? Because there are no power grids that function 24 7. So we needed to put in solar systems only so that we can actually power dirt bumps. And so we're doing that all across the country. Mini grids, power grids, irrigation systems. But we have to allow these communities to farm for more than just one crop cycle every year. Right.
- [22:18]
Katherine Suzuki
I really appreciate your. And I could hear this with Abdul Rauf as well, your willingness to innovate and actually the excitement to innovate. And so actually, as we're, you know, as we're wrapping up, the introduction to this podcast says, you know, by 2050, one in four people in the world will be African. We're expected to add about a billion people between now and 2050. You know, I'm curious, what kind of change, what kind of action you would like to see now in the present that would ensure safe, healthy, prosperous lives not only for current generations, but also for the coming generations? It's a very broad question.
- [22:53]
Arjun Jain
No, it's true. But look, by 2050, actually Nigeria will have a larger population than the US right? Most of them are going to be young people. I think what we need is young people to innovate, be creative and not give up. It's what's going to make or break this country. It's going to make or break our communities. Young people have to be drivers and we need to listen to them more carefully.
- [23:18]
Katherine Suzuki
What makes you hopeful, Arjun?
- [23:20]
Arjun Jain
A lot.
- [23:22]
Katherine Suzuki
Good.
- [23:22]
Arjun Jain
I don't think that we can give up. Every time we talk to communities, they haven't given up and so why should we?
- [23:29]
Katherine Suzuki
Perfect place to end it. Thank you so much for your time and for joining the podcast.
- [23:34]
Arjun Jain
It's a delight. Thanks for having me.
- [23:35]
Katherine Suzuki
It's been so cool meeting you. Hopefully next time you're around, you'd come back.
- [23:39]
Arjun Jain
I would be delighted. Thanks so much for having me.
- [23:42]
Katherine Suzuki
Thanks for tuning in. This podcast is produced by Gina Kim and our music is by Wonder Child. If you have any suggestions for future topics, you can find me on X and Instagram at catherinezuki.