Advertiser 2 (14:25)

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Peyton Moreland (14:55)

You guys There are a lot of awesome things that have come out of Australia. The Hemsworth Brothers, Uggs, the Crocodile Hunter. But my new favorite Aussie export that's finally available in the US is the Koala sofa bed. I love a sofa bed that looks good. I don't know when we decided that sofa beds needed to be such a hassle and pain. And Koala sofa beds are functional and beautiful. They make the most comfortable mattresses and the sofa beds actually use their mattress technology inside. Inspired by the Aussie Outback, Koala delivers Instagram worthy color options. Unlike traditional sofa beds, Koalas are designed for pure comfort with no uncomfortable metal frames. Plus tool free assembly, no Allen wrenches, no stress, no tears. It's perfect for small spaces and it's also eco friendly and E and they have fast shipping and free returns. No delivery or restocking fees that's almost unheard of in the industry. With 120 night risk free trial, upgrade your space with the most stylish, customizable and elevated sofa bed available. To get a hundred dollars off your new sofa plus fast shipping, go to us.koala.comDark that's us.koala.comDark to get $100 off your new sofa. Koala Comfy, Easy, Sustainable Now. According to Monique, this took her by surprise. She was totally fine with Michelle kidnapping and sexually assaulting a young girl. But she never expected Michelle to kill anyone. She'd believed that they were going to let Isabelle go after Michelle was done. But once again, even when she was faced with the reality that her boyfriend was a cold blooded killer, Monique stood by him. She agreed to stay quiet about the murder, and she stayed with Michelle. He disposed of Isabel's body, but we don't know how or where because the remains still haven't been found to this day. Needless to say, Isabel's parents were terrified when their daughter failed to come home that night. It wasn't like her to miss curfew. So all evening long, unaware that their daughter was in the hands of an evil couple, they kept pacing to the front door, turning the handle, hoping that they would see her on the porch, wanting to come in. They didn't sleep, waiting for the phone to ring. But they never heard from Isabel again. That was because Monique had enabled Michelle to take her life. And Michelle, well, he was about to break another promise. Remember that? In his letters, he told Monique, I just want to live out this fantasy one time. And then once I've assaulted a virgin, I will be faithful to you. We will, you know, live happily ever after, spend the rest of our lives together. He said he would never sleep with another woman and he'd definitely never sexually assault or murder anyone else. But as you know, this is not true. Shortly after Isabel's death, he told Monique, I want to do it again. And he needed her help. Kidnapping, attacking, killing someone else. It had worked the last time. And once again, you will notice that this is a pattern for Monique because she agreed to his plan. She was so loyal to him that she was willing to keep helping him murder people. So they basically become serial killers together. They did it again and again and again. And as wild as it sounds, they only became closer and fell deeper in love. Even while they were committing these gruesome crimes, it was like the darkness within them connected them. So Michelle and Monique got married in July of 1989. And at some point that year, she found out that she was pregnant. She actually used this discovery later on to help her with the murders. Monique would drive around looking for young women. She'd ask them for directions or find another way to get him in the car. And when most of the victims saw she was pregnant, there was no assumption that they were in an unsafe environment. How could an expecting mother hurt them? This is just disgusting. But sadly, the answer was that Monique was a dangerous and deadly person, pregnant or not. One time, Michelle was driving when he pulled up beside a 20 year old woman named Fabian Leroy. Now, from the passenger seat, Monique gestured at her pregnant belly and pretended she was having a medical emergency. She said she needed to rush to the hospital, but she also needed Fabian to help her while they were on the way. Michelle couldn't hold her hand or make her feel supported while he was focused on driving. And Fabian only wanted to be nice. She didn't want to abandon a clearly distressed pregnant woman. So she got into the car with the Michelle and Monique. And that was when Michelle pulled a gun on her. Monique dropped the act, and Fabian almost certainly realized that she had been tricked by a pair of monsters. They all drove after this to an empty field. And there, once again, Michelle sexually assaulted and murdered the victim. Fabian's remains were found the very same day in the same field where she had been attacked and died. But nobody connected her to the young, happy couple that was expecting their first child together. No one even knew this was a pair. Two serial killers. What are the chances? So life goes on. The serial killer's son, Selim, was born in 1988. And while he was a baby, Monique used him as bait too. She would strap him into a car seat. She'd find a young woman and ask them for help because her baby was sick again. She was faking serious illnesses and medical issues to earn people's trust. And well meaning, kind girls and women would climb into the van to try and help Monique and her son. And then their fate would be sealed. At this point, she would drive her son, Selim, her victim and herself back to the house where Michelle was waiting. Or sometimes her husband would attack his hostage right there in the car. In other words, he would literally kill people. They would do this right in front of their baby son. Selim witnessed multiple murders before his first birthday. You guys, I'm gonna throw up. And obviously, the killings continued after that. Even once he was old enough to understand what he was seeing. When he was older, Michelle and Monique hired babysitter after babysitter to watch him. Except when the babysitters would show up, Michelle and Monique wouldn't leave. They realized this was another way to get young women into their grasp. So they would attack the young woman while she was in their home with no witnesses around. And in many cases, their victims hadn't even told their friends or family members where they were supposed to be that night. So nobody ever thought to look for the missing people in Michelle and Monique's home. This was in spite of the fact that Michelle was a known sex offender. Some people thought the police should have made this connection faster with all of these killings happening. But for whatever reason, they didn't. And Michelle and Monique also hid the crimes by burying bodies and other evidence on the massive tracks of land that surrounded their mansion. Some experts believe that that's why they picked this particular property. It wasn't just that they wanted a big fancy house. They also wanted to live somewhere remote with no neighbors around to hear or see anything or to notice all the fresh graves that kept popping up on the property. So the more people they killed, the bolder they became. You may remember how earlier I mentioned that their home was in the Ardennes, which was right on the border between France and Belgium. Well, as time went by, Michelle and Monique felt more comfortable hunting on both sides of the border, preying on French and Belgian women alike. Along the way, Michelle earned a nickname, the Ogre of the Arden. Now, their youngest victim was just 12 years old and the oldest was 21. They were all abducted or killed between 1987 and 2003. During these crimes, Monique often watched Michelle assaulting and killing other women. Apparently he liked having her in the room, sometimes in the room next door, sometimes she would duck around the corner just out of sight and hold out a mirror so she could watch. They also sometimes recreated Michelle's murders in the bedroom. Apparently, Monique liked to pretend that he was attacking her and that she was afraid he was going to kill her, all while they're in bed. She'd also impersonate specific victims that they had already killed, like literally reacting moments from the assault. All in all, their relationship was very dark, warped and unhealthy. It was literally a marriage built around their shared love of sexual assault and murder. And all of this culminated with a crime Michelle and Monique committed in June of 2003. Now, on that day, they abducted a 13 year old girl. Her identity hasn't been made public even to this day. But here is what I do know. Michelle was driving and he spotted the 13 year old girl walking down the street. So he used the same tactic that he and mo' Nique had used so many times before. He pretended to be lost and convinced the 13 year old to get into the van with him to give him directions. Then he dragged her into the back seat, tied her up. But this attack went a little differently. Michelle didn't tie the 13 year old up very securely. And before Michelle could do anything else, the 13 year old got loose from her bindings. And then she pushed the back door of the van open and jumped out. And in another stroke of good luck, A car was driving by right at that moment. So the girl ran over and begged for their help. Now, when everyone realized what was going on, the other drivers wrote down Michelle's license plate number while he tried to get away and then took the girl to the police station. And when she gave her statement, she also gave the investigators everything they needed. A physical description of Michelle, his van, and his license plate number. So right away, the detectives tracked Michelle down and asked if they could search his van. When they did, they found the 13 year old girl's hairs in the back of the van, which definitely corroborated her statement she had already given. It proved she was telling the truth, and the police now had a suspect. But when they searched this van, they also found other hairs which matched missing girls. And that was when authorities realized that all of this was connected. Michelle was responsible for multiple kidnappings and murders in both France and Belgium. This serial killer had just been caught, and when they brought him in for interrogation, he admitted to many of the details, including the fact that his wife Monique had helped him commit the crimes. So at this point, they are both arrested. The police questioned them separately, and both Michelle and Monique were cooperative, sort of. See, Michelle ultimately confessed to 11 murders. And he gave the police very specific details about what his victims looked like, what they had been wearing, and in some cases, he even knew their names. So it was fairly easy for the officials to match his statements to open missing persons cases. Now, Monique only confessed to four murders. She didn't actually admit that she committed them herself, but she said she'd assisted Michelle in the crime and the COVID up afterwards. But once again, she gave the police a lot of details about who she'd helped kill and how she'd done it. The problem was Monique confessed to some murders that Michelle had not confessed to and vice versa, which is not a good sign. Some of the four confessions she gave were different people than the ones Michelle had mentioned, meaning there was more victims and neither of them were telling the full story. They were both leaving out certain details. This was especially clear when the authorities looked at the timeline. Both Michelle and Monique claimed that they didn't commit any murders at all between 1990 and 2001. So between the two of them, they had killed almost a dozen people between 1987 and 1990 and then from 2001 to 2003. But supposedly they took 11 years off without committing any crimes. In the middle of those periods, the police are like this sounds unlikely. They suspected there were even more homicides that the two of them were still lying and hiding. This meant it was impossible to say just how many lives Michelle and Monique had actually taken. Still, when it came to pressing charges, the authorities had to focus on the cases that were the strongest, the murders where they had physical evidence against Michelle and Monique. So they only charged Michelle with seven murders and Monique was charged with just one. But with six counts of being an accomplice. His trial in 2008 was fairly uneventful. There was a parade of witnesses against him, including his son, who you'll remember witnessed multiple murders throughout his childhood. On the stand, Michelle admitted to what he had done. He was found guilty and he was sentenced to life in prison. According to Michelle, this was all exactly what he had eventually expected would happen. He said that even before his trial had begun, he had known deep down that he was going to be convicted and get the harshest punishment possible. In interviews, Monique said the same thing, that she knew the hearing wasn't going to go well for her. But still, she fought the charges and her defense came with its share of of fireworks. That's because by trial, Monique's argument was that she'd only helped Michelle because she was afraid of him.

Advertiser 1 (28:58)

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Co-host (29:45)

My next place to buy or rent or I just want to scroll through some dream homes, we use the Redfin app and Peyton and I have actually in fact been using Redfin for years.

Peyton Moreland (29:57)

We actually one of our first homes was found on Redfin and I'm pretty.

Co-host (30:02)

Sure we use then we use the Redfin Realtor as well.

Peyton Moreland (30:06)

Yes, almost.

Co-host (30:07)

So so if that's not an endorsement, I don't know what is. You can filter for price beds, baths, square footage and so much more. And if you find a place that you love, Redfin makes it easy to go see in person. Just schedule a tour right from the.

Peyton Moreland (30:23)

App and you know if if you're not one of the people who has found the pleasure of looking at houses you cannot afford on Redfin at night in places that you do not live.

Co-host (30:35)

And you're not a real person.

Peyton Moreland (30:36)

You need to join the club right now because there's something so fun about it. Plus, if you're looking to sell, Redfin agents know how to get you the best price possible for your home. And that's because they close twice as many deals as other agents. And with a listing fee as low as 1%, Redfin's fees are half of what others often charge, which means you'll have more money to put towards your next home.

Co-host (30:58)

Also, my dad actually sold his home through Redfin to remember that it was because they charged only 1% or whatever. So he's like, I'm going to sell my home through them.

Peyton Moreland (31:05)

Yep.

Co-host (31:06)

Anyways, we're a Redfin family over here. So whether you're looking to buy, rent, or sell, Redfin has got you covered. Download the Redfin app to get started.

Peyton Moreland (31:16)

To hear her tell it, the whole time she and Michelle had been together, she had been worried that he'd turn on her and murder her, just like he'd done to all of those other women. So she played along with him in order to save herself. In fact, she argued at trial that she was as much a victim as the girls that they had tortured to death. As she put it, quote, you shouldn't think of me as being the same as him or put me in the same fox. She also added that she just wasn't smart enough to be responsible for the murders. To hear Monique tell it, Michelle was some kind of brilliant criminal mastermind. And Monique tried to say that she was too innocent and naive to resist his manipulations. Okay, there is a part of this that totally could be true, but you got to be held responsible for your actions. But I do want to say, interestingly, when the police interviewed Michelle, he said something similar. He argued that Monique wasn't very smart and she never stood a chance in the face of his superior brilliance. So there definitely is, like, a dominant submissive situation going on here. But at the end of the day, she, on her own, acted alone a lot of times during all of these killings. But when mental health professionals evaluated both Michelle and Monique, they came to a different conclusion. Monique did very well on intelligence tests. She scored well above average. And as for Michelle, his results, they said he wasn't very bright, but he just thought he was. Michelle was one of those people who loved using big words and complicated phrases because he thought they made him sound smart. But Half the time, the things he said didn't even make grammatical sense. Basically, it seemed like Monique was much smarter than him, and the experts had the evidence to prove it. Still, she argues at trial that Michelle manipulated her, but by and large, the French people didn't buy it. Besides the intelligence tests, prosecutors also said that Monique had the chance to break up with Michelle before she ever even met him in real life. When she first learned that he had a dark side, that he was in jail for raping underage girls, she could have called the authorities when he offered to make the pact that he'd kill her ex in exchange for her helping him find a virgin. The courts even had a confession from Monique where she said that one time she had put a gag on one of her victims because she was being too loud. Again, if Monique didn't want to hurt the girl, she could have just let her scream. If someone had heard the noise and called the police, she could have been saved as well. But that's not what Monique did. She helped Michelle commit and then get away with his crimes time and time again. And this was enough for her mental health counselors to say that Michelle wasn't controlling Monique, but they don't think Monique was controlling him either. Instead, the theory was that the two of them just really brought out the worst in each other. Maybe if they had never met, neither of them would have ever committed these murders. But while they were a couple, Monique and Michelle definitely egged each other on. They each pushed their spouse to be more violent and aggressive than they ever would have been on their own. So many French people saw her just as guilty as her husband. Every day, protesters gathered outside the courthouse with signs. They chanted and marched. They didn't even think Monique deserved a trial. They thought her crimes were so heinous, she'd waived her right to any kind of hearing. Her lawyer had to keep giving statements where he said that as horrible as these crimes were, Monique still had the same rights as any other citizen. Still, it may not be much of a surprise to hear that the jury didn't believe Monique's testimony about how she was really a victim. They did find her guilty and sentenced her to life in prison, which was the same sentence that Michelle had received. And sadly, this verdict wasn't enough to stop one more person from dying because of what Michelle and Monique had done. See, Michelle had a daughter from before he met Monique while he was in prison. And apparently, his daughter had never had any idea what her father was capable of until his arrest. But once his crimes became A major news story. The stress was more than she could deal with. And tragically, she took her own life in 2006, just two years after Michelle's guilty verdict. For his part, Michelle passed away in 2021, 13 years into his sentence and another two years after that, the police found evidence suggesting that Michelle and Monique had killed even more people than everyone even realized. They questioned Monique about their suspicions, and she confessed to three. Three more murders. This was enough for the authorities to bring more charges forward, since Michelle wasn't alive to be held accountable for those crimes. Only Mo' Nique went to trial, and during her hearing in 2023, she still claimed she was a victim. And she only went along with the attacks and the murders out of fear for her own life. And this defense didn't go any better for her than it had in 2004. Once again, she was found guilty in this time of three counts of accessory to murder. Monique was sentenced to another life sentence on top of the earlier one she was already serving. Now, to this day, Monique still claims that she's a victim. According to her, she had no choice but to help Michelle commit the murders. Of course, plenty of people don't believe her. Many say that Monique is a master manipulator who's just playing the victim, and they agree that her lies aren't working. One fact in this case is undebatable, though. Everyone, including Monique, agrees that she got into a bad relationship, she fell in love with someone dangerous, and she and Michelle both became the worst versions of themselves afterward. So we can only wonder, if Michelle and Monique had never met, how different would both of their lives have looked? How many other lives might have been saved? And that is our episode for this week. Thank you guys so much for being here. Thank you for listening, and join me next week as we go further into the dark together. Goodbye.