175. The Lipstick Killer

Summary

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Into The Dark, Ep. 175: The Lipstick Killer

Host: Payton Moreland (OH NO MEDIA)
Date: June 17, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this chilling episode, Payton Moreland explores the infamous "Lipstick Killer" case from 1940s Chicago—a complex story blending classic true crime with themes of media frenzy, questionable police tactics, and the mysteries of the human mind. Payton examines the details of three related murders, the controversial conviction of 17-year-old William "Bill" Hirons, and the enduring uncertainty about whether justice was truly served. With characteristic empathy and intrigue, she raises difficult questions: Why do people kill? Can self-control really fail so catastrophically? And how can society avoid catastrophic miscarriages of justice?

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Struggle for Self-Control and Crime (02:34-05:28)

• Payton begins by discussing the universal difficulty of resisting temptation, setting up a bridge to the episode’s core theme: the battle between desire and restraint, even in the context of violent crime.
• She draws a parallel between everyday lapses in self-control (like procrastinating or diet-breaking) and the disturbing claims of murderers who say they literally "cannot control themselves."
  • "Some killers claim they literally want to kill. They cannot stop themselves...they shouldn’t go to prison or be held accountable for their crimes." – (03:33, Payton Moreland)
• This frames the larger question: when, if ever, should mental illness mitigate legal responsibility?

2. The Murders: Facts and Investigation

Josephine Ross (06:40-08:30)

• June 5th, 1945, was a sweltering summer day in Chicago when 43-year-old Josephine Ross was found stabbed in her ransacked apartment.
• Initial police theory: a robbery gone wrong.
• Key details:
  • Apartment ransacked, valuables missing, no sexual assault.
  • Killer tried to wipe down the crime scene to eliminate evidence.

Frances Brown (08:31-10:55)

• December 10th, 1945, a second victim surfaces: Frances Brown, 32, is found dead in her apartment.
• Notable differences:
  • Victim shot in the head but killed by subsequent stabbing.
  • Body was cleaned and a towel placed over her head.
• Crucial discovery: a lipstick message on the mirror –
  "For heaven's sake catch me before I kill more. I cannot control myself."
  • "It was just the sort of thing that tended to get a lot of attention. So journalists crowded into Frances's apartment...that image ran on the front page." (11:39, Payton Moreland)
• Journalists quickly dub the anonymous murderer "The Lipstick Killer," igniting a citywide panic and intrigue.

Suzanne Degnan (11:55-15:30)

• Things escalate when, on January 7th, 1946, six-year-old Suzanne Degnan disappears from her bedroom.
• A chilling ransom note is discovered, but there is no follow-up from the kidnappers.
• Key forensic link: fingerprints from the note match those found at Frances Brown’s crime scene.
• Later that night, Suzanne’s remains are discovered, confirming the Lipstick Killer’s violent escalation.
  • “Sadistic. Diabolical. So now it was more urgent than ever that the police find the killer. They knew they were willing to target anyone, even small children.” (16:05, Payton Moreland)

3. The Arrest of William "Bill" Hirons (16:44-19:55)

• On June 26th, 1946, William Hirons, a 17-year-old college student with a history of petty theft, is caught attempting a burglary while carrying a gun.
• After a chaotic arrest involving a scuffle with police and being knocked unconscious, his dorm is searched.
• Police find stolen items belonging to both Josephine and Frances, linking him directly to the two murder scenes.
  • “More importantly, there were some items found in Bill's dorm room that could be traced directly back to Frances and Josephine.” (18:53, Payton Moreland)

4. Interrogations and the Mystery of "George" (19:57-28:15)

• Police press Bill for a confession but he steadfastly denies any connection to the murders.
• Under duress (physical beatings, prolonged detainment, and eventually the administration of "truth serum"), Bill maintains his innocence—then claims another man, "George Merman," is responsible.
  • "Bill still said he didn’t kill Josephine, Frances, or Suzanne. But he does claim someone else was responsible, namely a man named George Merman." (24:44, Payton Moreland)
• Police cannot find any record of George, and handwriting analysis suggests letters from George are in Bill’s handwriting.
• Psychologists diagnose Bill with "split personality disorder" (now known as Dissociative Identity Disorder), positing that George is Bill’s violent alternate identity—though this diagnosis is hotly disputed today.

Notable Quote

• “By the end of this session, they had diagnosed him with split personality disorder. Experts believed Bill and George were the same person, but Bill never even actually realized it.” (28:13, Payton Moreland)

5. Trial, Plea Deal, and Aftermath (29:00-34:34)

• Societal pressure to swiftly resolve the sensational case pushes all sides toward severe punishment.
• Bill’s own lawyer undermines his defense; Bill ultimately pleads guilty to all three murders in exchange for removing the death penalty from the table.
• After sentencing, Bill recants, claiming his confession was false and coerced:
  • “According to Bill, George didn’t either…he had been faking multiple personality disorder. The truth was, he actually knew nothing about the murders. But the police had been torturing him, threatening him with the death penalty, destroying his reputation.” (32:05, Payton Moreland)
• Bill spends 66 years in prison, one of the longest sentences on record, and persists in efforts to appeal and prove his innocence.

6. Lingering Doubts and Modern Perspectives (34:35-39:00)

• Payton reviews the controversies:
  • Possible police misconduct—including warrantless search, use of "truth serum," and potentially planting evidence.
  • Disputed forensic evidence: questionably matched fingerprints and handwriting analyses.
  • Persistent rumors that the lipstick message was staged for media impact, potentially even by a reporter.
• Notable quote considering wrongful conviction:
  • "Some people think an innocent man took the fall for three murders that he didn’t commit. Others think Bill was just a good liar.” (38:43, Payton Moreland)
• Payton stresses the limitations of 1940s criminal justice and mental health understanding, weighing the possibility of injustice against the horror of the crimes.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Lipstick Message:
  "For heaven's sake, catch me before I kill more. I cannot control myself." (11:14, read from crime scene evidence)
• On Bill and George:
  “Experts believed Bill and George were the same person, but Bill never even actually realized it.” (28:13)
• On Modern Legacy:
  "But it's still worth exploring these kinds of cases…If he was wrongfully convicted, we should figure out how to avoid making that mistake in the future. And if he was guilty, it's important to understand how he managed to manipulate so many people." (38:55, Payton Moreland)
• Closing Reflection:
  “We all can do a better job of making sure that the guilty are held responsible for their own actions…And we can also make sure we give grace to those who aren’t responsible. And that is the case of the Lipstick Killer, the complicated case at that.” (39:30, Payton Moreland)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• Self-Control, Psychology, and Crime: 02:34 – 05:28
• Josephine Ross Murder: 06:40 – 08:30
• Frances Brown Murder & Lipstick Message: 08:31 – 11:55
• Suzanne Degnan Kidnapping & Murder: 11:55 – 15:30
• Linking the Crimes, Forensics: 15:30 – 16:44
• William Hirons’ Arrest and Interrogation: 16:44 – 19:55
• Confession Under Truth Serum: 22:42 – 24:44
• The “George” Personality & Psychological Diagnosis: 24:47 – 29:00
• Legal Proceedings, Plea Deal, Bill's Recanting: 29:00 – 34:34
• Modern Reconsiderations & Lasting Questions: 34:35 – 39:00
• Conclusion/Reflection: 38:30 – 39:57

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Tone & Takeaways

Payton maintains a compassionate, questioning tone—approaching both the horror of the crimes and the ambiguity of the case with nuance rather than sensationalism. She challenges listeners to consider not just the surface facts, but also the broader social and psychological issues at play: the lure of quick justice in the face of public pressure, the potential for wrongful conviction, and the complexities of mental illness and legal responsibility.

Final words:
“And that is the case of the Lipstick Killer, the complicated case at that. Thank you guys so much for listening…” (39:30, Payton Moreland)

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(Ad sections, introductions, and outros have been omitted as per instructions.)

Transcript

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I'll never work again. If anyone fall now, my lips are sealed. Marvel Television's Wonder man. All eight episodes now streaming only on DIS plus. You're listening to an Ono Media podcast. Hi everybody and welcome back to the into the Dark podcast. I'm your host, Peyton Moreland. I'm so glad you are here listening and I hope you're having an amazing day. Jumping straight into my 10 seconds for this episode. I was working at the bagel shop this morning and I burned my belly. I burned my belly on a hot pan. It was like pulled out and I walked up to it and I had a crop top on and my belly just. Yeah, that pan in my belly, they just did a quick little kissy and now I have a big burn across my belly. So, yeah, that kind of sucks. I'm trying to like take care of it. Hopefully it doesn't leave a scar, but it's a pretty big long burn. But you know what, that's just like, I feel like my initiation into the bagel shop because a lot of people there have gotten burns, you know, just from the hot pans. And I feel like I was a little left out, you know, like I hadn't, I had burned my fingers like on a hot bagel. Not bad. Just like, oof. But I hadn't got a pant burn yet, which I feel like all the real ones have had a pan burn. So I officially have a pan burn now. It just happens to be on my belly. A lot of people get them on like their arms. But yeah, I guess I shouldn't wear a crop top to the bagel shop anymore. Maybe I think I'm gonna wear complete long sleeve from here on out, actually, because maybe if my belly had been covered it wouldn't have actually burned through the fabric, but I guess we'll never know. That being said, I think that's all I really had going on. I was just been working. I've been working at the bagel shop a lot and then yeah, now sitting down to record an into the Dark episode which I am happy about. So let's get right into it. Trigger Warning this episode includes discussions of violence against children, including murder. So please listen with care. Everyone needs to learn self control. And we all have moments where we do things we know we're not supposed to do. Like when you try to go to bed at a consistent time and get better sleep, but instead every evening you just get caught up in a TV show or or in scrolling and you stay up all night. Or how some people try to be serious about following a new diet. They just lose their self control when they see their favorite snack. Or say you're trying to break a bad habit like biting your nails or procrastinating. But the moment you say you're not going to do something, that thing can suddenly become incredibly tempting and hard to resist. So all to say, it's hard not to do those things you really want to do. And this is a big issue when it comes to true crime because you might want to bite your nails. But some killers claim they literally want to kill. They cannot stop themselves. According to them, it's impossible for them to live healthy lives and not hurt anyone else. So therefore they say they shouldn't go to prison or be held accountable for their crimes. Sometimes that seems reasonable to some people, even juries and judges. There are many stories of murderers who seem to be dealing with serious mental health conditions. However, others come across like they're making excuses to avoid taking responsibility for what they've done. And from the outside, it can be difficult to tell which person fits in which category. And this is still true today. But even more true back in 1945, when people didn't understand psychology and criminal profiling as well as we do now. So instead, when serious crimes happened, there would be a lot of wild speculation. Even the police jumped to unfair conclusions back then. And newspapers would print exciting lies just to sell more copies. In that year, 1945, the people of Chicago were especially interested in stories about violence and murder. People loved reading about shocking and frightening events. It's kind of like their day, true crime. And reporters were always on the prowl to see what was going to make headlines next. And they found exactly what they were looking for. On the afternoon of June 5th, now, it was an unusually hot day in Chicago with temperatures close to 100 degrees. And that's when a 43 year old woman named Josephine Ross was found stabbed to death in her apartment. The investigators rushed to the scene. It was clear that someone had definitely broken in. The place had been ransacked and a lot of Josephine's valuables were missing. So this immediately led the police to rule that this was a robbery gone wrong. They figured someone had gotten inside while the apartment was empty, and then the thief was still there when Josephine must have come home unexpectedly. And when she walked in, the robber must have panicked, picked up a knife and then stabbed her and fled. All in all, it seemed straightforward for a Chicago 1945 case. The only question was who the killer had been. Except just six months later, the officers realized this case was a lot more complicated than they had originally thought. That's because on December 10th of that same year, the police found a second body. This time the Victim was a 32 year old woman named Frances Brown. She was found in her apartment where someone had shot her in the head. But the bullet wasn't immediately fatal. So the killer had stabbed her in the neck while she was slowly bleeding out. And that was what actually killed her. Once again, her murderer had apparently robbed her. All of her drawers were open and her things had been tossed on the bed and the floor. Plus there were a few valuables that were simply missing. Police immediately feel the similarities between these two cases. But I should note, Frances crime scene was completely different from Josephine's. For one thing, the causes of death were not the same. Josephine was stabbed to death, while Francis was shot and then stabbed to death. Plus, it seemed like Frances's murder had been slow and painful. The person who'd killed her had kind of tortured her, taking their time and enjoying it, which felt a little different from Josephine, who'd been stabbed rather quickly after, presumably startling her robberer. And there were other inconsistencies which I will touch on in a moment. But for the most part, the police could only focus on how similar these crime scenes were to one another. Same place, same year, both Josephine and Frances had been robbed and killed in their apartments. And in each case, the murderer had done a good job of destroying any identifying evidence. They had wiped down every surface in Josephine and Francis apartment. So there were no fingerprints, or at least none that the police could find during their initial investigations. And eventually, some experts did find a few prints in Frances's apartment, but they were so well hidden, it took days to locate them. And sadly, these Prints didn't even match any known criminals. Now, another similarity was that there were no signs of sexual assault on either woman, which meant the police couldn't collect semen samples or pubic hair. Frankly, even if they had found those things, they couldn't test DNA in 1945, so they wouldn't have been that helpful. But the investigators did find another major clue. They realized that with each murder, the killer had covered the victim's injuries. Afterward, when the police found Josephine's body, there was heavy duty tape all over her stab wounds, like the murderer had tried to seal them closed after she was dead. And as for Frances, the killer had stripped her naked and given her a shower, which basically rinsed the blood away. And both women were also found with their heads covered. A skirt had been draped over Josephine's face, and a towel was over Francis's. Now, again, these details aren't identical. Taping a stab wound closed is not the same thing as washing blood off a body. And a skirt is definitely not a towel. But in very general, broad way, there were similarities between these murders, enough to make the police think that the same person may have been responsible for both Josephine and Francis might have been murdered by the same serial killer. And on top of that, it seemed like the culprit was kind of out of control or seriously struggling, because the investigators found a message written on Francis mirror in lipstick. And it read, quote, for heaven's sake, catch me before I kill more. I cannot control myself. Now, to all appearances, the killer wanted to stop attacking people, but couldn't. This was a cry for help. It was just the sort of thing that tended to get a lot of attention. So journalists crowded into Francis's apartment. As soon as the news broke, they snapped pictures of the message on the mirror. Obviously, that probably wouldn't happen today, but that image ran on the front page of multiple newspapers. And in all of the coverage, the reporters and journalists nicknamed the murderer the Lipstick Killer. Now, in a matter of days, basically everyone in the city of Chicago knew about the alleged lipstick killer. It was the number one story for weeks, and lots of people were speculating on who could have done it. But a little under a month later, on January 7, 1946, the case became much darker and more upsetting because that was when a girl named Suzanne Dagon went missing. And her disappearance was especially shocking because Suzanne was just 6 years old. So early that morning, she was alone in her bedroom while her parents were in another room. They did not see or hear anything unusual. But at about 7:30am her father James went into her room to check on her and the six year old little girl was gone. There was no sign of a struggle or a forced entry. It was almost like she just vanished into thin air. So right away, Suzanne's parents called the police. And remember, this is all happening in Chicago. So when the officers arrived at the scene, they saw something her father James had missed earlier. Somebody had left a ransom note on the floor of Suzanne's bedroom. It said her family could have her back if they paid $20,000. There were no instructions about how to get the money to the kidnappers. It just said they should wait for the abductors to reach out again. And there were also warnings in the note that the family shouldn't contact the police or get any authority involved. Now, of course, by the time they found the message, it was too late for that. The police were already investigating. So Suzanne's family just hoped and prayed the kidnapper would still call them with instructions on how to pay this ransom. It's safe to say that finding a

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Except more hours went by and still the family didn't get any new letters. The phone didn't ring. At one point that same day, Suzanne's father, James, actually managed to book an interview on a radio show. So he's like, we got to get the word out. My daughter is missing. And live on air. He begged the kidnapper to bring Suzanne home safe and sound. But nobody heard a peep from her or her kidnappers. Now, I know that this doesn't seem connected, but with every hour that went by, the police felt less optimistic that Suzanne would ever come home. Especially after they pulled fingerprints from the ransom note because they matched the well hidden ones that the police had found at the site of Frances's murder. Meaning this little six year old girl, Suzanne had allegedly been killed by a lipstick killer. The same person who had brutally killed Francis and Josephine for no good reason. It was possible they probably never even actually wanted the ransom money. The fear was that the murderer was just on a killing spree, being diabolical and hurting everyone they could. And that little Suzanne was in extreme danger now that she was in the serial killer's grasp. I mean, the fingerprints match. And sure enough, Tragically enough, at 7pm that same night, a passerby found Suzanne's head floating in a sewer drain. It took several hours for investigators to locate the rest of her body. The murderer had strangled her to death and then cut her remains into pieces and. And dropped them in five separate locations. They'd never actually contacted Suzanne's family about giving them the ransom money again. Sadistic. Diabolical. So now it was more urgent than ever that the police find the killer. They knew they were willing to target anyone, even small children. They didn't necessarily have a type. Problem was, they still didn't know who had done it or when they would strike again. However, they got an unexpected break on June 26, 1946. That was when a 17 year old boy named William Hirons went out to run some errands. Now, William went by a nickname, Bill. Okay, so Bill was a student at a local college. 17 and incredibly smart. He'd actually skipped a grade and graduated from high school a year early. Now, that night, Bill was planning to take his girlfriend out for a fancy date. There was just one problem. Bill had the money in the form of savings bonds that he needed to cash. But he had procrastinated all day until the bank and the post office were closed. He wasn't willing to cancel the date or admit that he'd screwed up. So Bill decided to get some quick cash by just stealing it. See, Bill had always been a petty thief. Ever since he was 13 years old, he'd routinely broken into other people's apartments and homes, helping himself to their money. He'd never hurt his victims or been convicted of anything violent. But Bill had been arrested a bunch of times before and he knew his way around the criminal justice system. Unfortunately, he hadn't learned how to earn an honest living. So that day he walked around a residential neighborhood until he saw an apartment with an open window. He tried to climb through, but someone saw him trying to break in. And Bill worried the witness was about to call the cops. And get him into trouble. So he just turned to run away. Except he had barely made it around the corner before he found himself face to face with two patrolmen. Talk about bad timing. And even worse. The first thing the officers noticed about Bill was that he was actually holding a gun. Now, Bill later claimed he never would have pulled a weapon on a police officer, and he wouldn't even dream of shooting anyone. He said that he had been carrying it to try and look tough during this robbery, but he never planned to do anything with it. However, in the officer's statements, they said Bill actually tried to shoot them. That he literally pulled the trigger, but the gun jammed. Either way, One of the police tried to fire back at Bill, but missed. And Bill ended up tackling them. And while they were wrestling, a third police officer happened to walk by. This wasn't someone they had called for backup. It was a complete coincidence. And this man was enjoying his day off when he saw the struggle in progress and decided to help his fellow police officers. So the newcomer grabbed a big, heavy flower pot and hit Bill in the head with it. This knocked him unconscious. It actually hurt him pretty bad. In fact, he had to be rushed to a hospital. And there the doctors got him stable. But they realized it would take a long time for Bill to be well enough to wake up. In the meantime, the police decided to build the strongest case against him that they could. I mean, they'd already knew he had been walking down the street with a gun in his hand, Trying to break into an apartment. He and he had also allegedly tried to shoot the police, Although he later disputed that. But the officers wondered if there was any other evidence they could find against him. So while he was still unconscious and being treated in the hospital, the police searched Bill's dorm room where he lived. And that's where they found a suitcase full of items Bill had stolen. It included cash, jewelry, and other valuables from unsolved break ins and robberies Literally going back for months. More importantly, there were some items found in Bill's dorm room that could be traced directly back to Francis and Josephine. The police knew the Lipstick killer had taken specific things from both of those women's homes. And now they just found them in 17 year old Bill's room. Meaning the officers hadn't been planning to investigate the serial murders that day, but almost completely by accident. They think they'd caught their killer, or at least they were pretty sure. But the officers also knew they needed more solid evidence if they wanted to convict Bill first, because he lived in a college Dorm and shared his space with a bunch of other students. This could easily be our argued as someone else's, or even just to say that he had bought those items without realizing where they'd come from. Given his criminal connections, the police needed a confession to be sure that this Bill was the Lipstick Killer. So as soon as Bill was well enough to be released from the hospital, the police took him back to the police station. They set him up in an interrogation room, and they demanded he explain why he had killed Josephine Francis and Suzanne. But Bill keeps repeating he hadn't done it. He doesn't know anything about these murders. And the police obviously refused to accept his answers. I mean, they found hard evidence in his room. They held him for days. It's 1945. They are physically beating him. They are holding him for long hours. But when that still doesn't work, the officers actually called a psychiatrist to come to the station. And without Bill's consent, they ordered the doctor to inject him with truth serum. This is a drug that makes people feel very relaxed. And at the time, officials believed truth serum could make people unwind so much that they would just blurt out their secrets. Or if they tried to lie, it would be impossible to keep the story straight and they'd eventually have to admit to the truth. Now, for the record, that is not entirely accurate. It is possible to lie after you take truth serum. It's just harder to do. Requires a lot of concentration. But regardless, the officers believed this was the best way to get Bill to confess. Except while he was under the influence of the truth serum, Bill still said he didn't kill Josephine Francis or Suzanne. But he does claim someone else was responsible, namely a man named George Merman.

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[Peyton Moreland]

now. According to Bill, he had known George for about four years. They'd met back when Bill was 13 and when he already had a criminal record for theft. According to Bill, George had egged him on to commit more and more serious crimes. They kind of become like crime buddies. Bill said he only stole from people when he was really desperate and needed the money. But on the other hand, he knew George liked the thrill of doing something wrong and getting away with it. Bill says George stole more than he needed, and he liked pushing limits, seeing exactly how far he could go before he got caught. It was almost less about the money and more about the crime. According to Bill, George was the one who had killed Josephine when she'd walked in on him robbing her apartment. And then because of it, he then went on to murder Francis during a robbery just for the fun of it. And each time he took a life, George became Bolder and more arrogant in Bill's mind, he thought his friend George enjoyed the violence. And those suspicions were confirmed on January 6, 1946. Apparently, that evening, George walked into Bill's dorm room. He said he wanted to kill again, and he had a plan. And then he shows Bill the ransom note he'd written and explained he's gonna kidnap a wealthy little girl, demand money from her parents. But George, I guess, also admits to Bill from the very beginning he was never bringing the girl back home. Like he was. Like, it's not. It's not gonna matter what the parents do. I'm just gonna kill the little girl. George just wanted to see the parents suffer, because, according to Bill, that was fun for him. And sure enough, the next day, Bill saw all of the news stories about Suzanne's disappearance and eventual murder. And he realized his friend George had done it again, and he had made this plan for a little girl a reality. So Bill now admits to police he hadn't gone to the police earlier because he didn't know what to do. He was like, I. I felt loyal to this friend. He knew the crimes I'd committed. I knew the crimes he committed. But I am not a killer. And Bill says, I don't want anyone else to die. When the police asked about the suitcase full of the murdered women's things, Bill said George was storing things in his dorm room. And Bill swore if the police found George and questioned him, he would tell them the same exact story. There was just one problem. The police couldn't find George to question him. He wasn't enrolled in the same college as Bill. In fact, there was no record of a man by that name who fit that description anywhere in Chicago at that time. When investigators questioned Bill's other friends, they all claimed that they'd never met George. They didn't even know who this person was. Now, the police were able to find letters in Bill's room which had been written by George and signed by him. But according to police, those letters looked like they were all in Bill's own handwriting. So police start to think, does George not exist, and it's actually Bill? He's made up this character. But the officers don't think Bill was making the stories up or faking the things he was saying. They didn't believe that was possible since he had been on truth serum when he made his statement. So they actually ask a team of psychologists to examine Bill and figure out what's going on. Who is George is George. Bill is Bill. George is George an actual person? They need to be looking for. And by the end of this session, they had diagnosed him with split personality disorder. Experts believed bill and george were the same person, but bill never even actually realized it. Now, at this point, it's worth noting, these days, there are many psychologists who believe multiple personality disorder doesn't exist. The condition to this day isn't well understood. And some experts say everyone who claims to have alternate personalities is lying, that this entire thing is a hoax. But other doctors believe it's real. They do admit it's incredibly rare. And they also acknowledge there are some people who pretend to have multiple personalities when they definitely don't. So even if the disorder is real, you, have to be careful of people who are faking it. And for these reasons, doctors these days are very careful about diagnosing anyone with split personality disorder. But back in 1946, mental health wasn't as well understood as it is today. Nobody was sure if bill was telling the truth or faking it. And no one knew how to figure out whether they should punish him. Because if he really had multiple personalities, Would it be fair to send bill to prison for what george had done? It would have been more appropriate to check him into a mental health hospital. But the murders had been such a big news story, Everyone was anxious to see this killer go away. For a long time, Government officials and detectives knew the public would get incredibly upset if they sent bill to get treatment instead of punishing him. So the police, the courts, and even bill's own lawyers all worked together to make sure he got the strictest possible sentence. And, yeah, you heard that right. Bill hired a lawyer to defend him. But this defense attorney believed bill was guilty and didn't deserve to go free. So he intentionally gave bill bad advice and refused to help him come up with a defense strategy. Instead, he negotiated for a plea deal and pressured bill to take it. Now, the terms said bill had to plead guilty to three murders. Josephine's, frances, and Suzanne's. The prosecutors would not seek the death penalty against him, though. But he would be sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole. And bill really didn't feel like he had any other choice. It was either go to court and almost definitely be found guilty because nobody was on his side, or confess and spend the rest of his life in prison. Bill went with the second option. He pleaded guilty and accepted the deal. But then, almost immediately after he was formally sentenced, Bill went to the warden of his prison. And that's when he said, listen, I didn't do it. According to bill, George didn't either. Okay. He had been faking multiple personality disorder. The truth was, he actually knew nothing about the murders. But the police had been torturing him, threatening him with the death penalty, destroying his reputation. And he'd realized there was only one way out of this bad situation back then, and it was to cooperate. So when they'd injected him with truth serum, he'd focused very hard on telling a story he knew the investigators wanted to hear, because, according to him, he just wanted to get out of there. He tells the warden he had invented his alternate personality, George, to cover for the fact that he didn't know any details about the murders that hadn't been made public, and he'd accepted the deal to avoid being sentenced to death. But now Bill's like, I'm not willing to spend the rest of my life in prison for a crime I didn't even commit. And as soon as he could, he filed for an appeal. But it didn't go anywhere. And the sentence stood. Bill didn't give up. He filed another appeal and another. And for years and then decades, he used every tool that was available to him. The whole time, he continued to maintain that he was innocent, but nobody listened or really believed him. And this was in spite of the fact that Bill was a model prisoner and had really been under some horrible circumstances. During his interrogations, Bill never got in trouble or physically hurt other inmates. He got along with people he shared his cell with. He even qualified for programs that let him work outside the prison during the day as long as he reported back each night. And even with this, Bill never tried to escape or bothered any of the people he had to work with. Still, though, each time he asked for an appeal or a retrial, the state shut him down. Officials told him, no, you're just too violent. And his crimes were too serious for him to ever be forgiven. Bill then spent 66 years in prison. At the time, that was more than any other prisoner in United States history. Other people who received life sentences either died or were released before 66 years had gone by then. Bill passed away in 2012 at age 83, basically saying he was being punished for murders he hadn't committed. And by 2012, some people believed him. They think he was innocent. We know people give false confessions sometimes, especially if the police are intimidating or physically hurting the suspect, which was definitely true in Bill's case. And false confessions are also much more common for minors. And remember, Bill was 17 years old when he was arrested, so he fit the profile for the kind of person who might Give a false confession. But it's harder to explain how the police found the murdered woman's things in Bill's dorm room.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest]

Right.

[Peyton Moreland]

Like that is a smoking gun. Bill always insisted that the police planted that evidence. The idea was that the officers were so anxious to solve the lipstick murder back then that they were willing to frame Bill rather than admit they hadn't found the real killer. Now, Bill never had any proof that he had been set up. But we do know the investigators treated him badly during his interrogation and violated his rights. They did search that dorm without a warrant. They also didn't have the legal authority to inject him with truth serum, but they did anyway. They might have been willing to break other laws that were supposed to protect him, too. Is it possible they planted evidence? And on top of that, Bill found experts who said his handwriting didn't actually match the ransom note or the message written in lipstick on Francis mirror. In fact, those experts thought the mirror message in the ransom note had been written by completely different people. In fact, there's even a theory that a reporter wrote with lipstick to make the scene look more shocking for the papers. You'd expect the police to realize this, but the entire investigation was fairly sloppy. And Bill also claimed after, you know, being convicted that his fingerprints didn't match the ones from the crime scene. But state officials refused to actually, you know, check. Recheck said it was a waste of resources. So to this day, we don't even know if Bill's fingerprints match the Lipstick killers because they won't release the evidence to the public. Were they telling the truth originally? Do they even owe us a follow up or a recheck? For all these reasons, Bill's conviction is considered pretty controversial today. Some people think an innocent man took the fall for three murders that he didn't commit. Others think Bill was just a good liar. They claim he did it and then pretended he had a mental health condition. And when that didn't work, he claimed he was framed to manipulate the public. Nobody knows the truth except Bill, who's now gone and can't tell his story. But it's still worth exploring these kinds of cases, in part because the victims, Josephine, Frances and Suzanne, they deserve to be remembered. Also, we should study stories like Bill's because there's something to learn from it. If he was wrongfully convicted, we should figure out how to avoid making that mistake in the future. And if he was guilty, it's important to understand how he managed to manipulate so many people. We all can do a better job of making sure that the guilty are held responsible for their own actions. And and we can also make sure we give grace to those who aren't responsible. And that is the case of the Lipstick Killer, the complicated case at that. Thank you guys so much for listening to today's episode and I will see you next time for another one. Goodbye.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest]

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