Loading summary
Transcript10 lines
- [00:00]
Peyton
Hey everyone, it's Peyton. And if you're loving into the dark, you need to check out the new podcast Killer Minds. Hosted by licensed forensic psychologist Dr. Tristan Engels and Crime House's Vanessa Richardson. Each episode of Killer Minds features a deep dive into the psychology of a notorious murderer, from infamous serial killers to ruthless cult leaders, deadly exes and terrifying spree killers. Along with Vanessa's immersive storytelling full of high stakes twists and turns, Dr. Engels will be providing expert analysis of the people involved, not just how they killed, but why. Charles Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer, Griselda Blanco, AKA the Cocaine Godmother. These are just a few of the names they will be covering. It's about so much more than their crimes. It's about their minds. And now here's a sneak peek of Killer Minds.
- [01:00]
Vanessa Richardson
From the moment he was born on November 12, 1934, Charles Manson's life was driven by deception. His birth certificate listed Kathleen and William Manson as his parents, but for years, Charles had no idea that William wasn't his father. That honor most likely belonged to a con artist named Colonel Scott. Colonel was Scott's given first name, but if people assumed he was in the army, he didn't bother correcting them. That's how he caught Kathleen Maddox's attention at a dance club in Ironton, Ohio. He was 23. She was just 15. Kathleen was charmed by the older man she assumed was a military officer. So when she discovered she was pregnant sometime in the spring of 1934, Kathleen had no reason to doubt the colonel. When he said he was being called away on duty. He promised he'd be back as soon as he could, but she never heard from him again. After a few months, Kathleen finally realized she'd been duped and now she needed to find someone to help raise her soon to be newborn baby. That's when William Manson, who worked for a dry cleaning business, entered the picture. It's not really clear how the two of them met, but by the time Charles was born on November 12, 1934, Kathleen and William were married. However, it doesn't seem either of them was all that interested in parenting. William wasn't around much and neither was Kathleen. Most days she dropped Charles off with her mom so she could go out drinking with her brother.
- [02:50]
Dr. Tristan Engels
Let's discuss the impact of Charles's early childhood. Kathleen was a minor, so her judgment, reasoning, impulsiveness, decision making, even emotional regulation is impaired because she did not have a fully developed frontal lobe. This also affects her ability to cope appropriately with the demands of being A new mother, not to mention any postpartum effects she may have had. And given that Charles's father conned his mother, she may have some conscious or unconscious resentment that she projected onto Charles. As a result, her seemingly desperate and impulsive decision to marry William appears to be driven by more societal pressures on unwed mothers back then, not necessarily a marriage that was built on love. And Charles later learning that William is not his biological father will more likely than not affect his sense of self worth, his identity, and his trust. Kathleen abandoning Charles to go drinking indicates she may have an alcohol use disorder. And I also wonder if she drank while she was pregnant. Pregnant? That could have caused a prenatal injury and if so, would warrant further exploration to understand Charles's development. Then there's the layer of Kathleen and William's disinterest in being parents. The effects of emotionally absent parents on children is well documented. Those children tend to have more difficulty with trust, with self esteem, and forming healthy relationships. And when you compound that with the abandonment and that William wasn't his biological father, that is pretty profound. Nurturance is critical for a child's development. And if their immediate caregivers aren't providing that or reinforcing a healthy development, that child is at risk of exhibiting poor emotional regulation later on. They have an increase in academic struggles, behavioral deficits, and developmental delays.
- [04:51]
Vanessa Richardson
So even if Charles grandmother was a nurturing guardian, what kind of impact does it have on a child when they can tell their parents aren't that interested in raising them?
- [05:01]
Dr. Tristan Engels
It's a really good question. Well, statistically, if a child has emotionally absent parents, but they have at least one constant loving and nurturing presence, like a grandmother, for example, they are more likely to be resilient and overcome those statistical odds that I'd mentioned. And that's why there's so many adult children of emotionally absent parents who are high functioning. They are breaking generational cycles, and they have learned to have healthy attachments as adults. Of course, this all depends on a number of factors, such as when that nurturing presence entered their life, how long they remained in their life, how available they were to them, as well as other things. But the fact remains that children will recognize that their parents are emotionally absent at some point, and there is a likelihood that there will be some resentment or anger.
- [05:55]
Vanessa Richardson
With all this going on, it didn't take Kathleen and William long to realize they weren't right for each other. Within two and a half years, they were divorced. After that, Kathleen turned to petty crime to get by. And On August 1, 1939, when Charles was almost five, she was arrested after an unsuccessful robbery. Kathleen spent the next few years behind bars while young Charles was given to his aunt, uncle, and cousin who lived near the West Virginia prison where she was incarcerated.
- [06:29]
Dr. Tristan Engels
And this is what I meant about those other variables that affect resiliency. If his grandmother was a constant source of nurturance and affection, then taking him away from her and passing him around through different relatives like that really does reduce his ability to gain that resiliency.
- [06:48]
Vanessa Richardson
And it was a strict household on top of that. And Charles was frequently punished for breaking the rules. And he didn't have it much easier at school. He was small for his age and prone to mischief. That meant he drew the attention of bullies and received discipline from his teachers. It was a lot for a young boy to handle on his own. So when Kathleen was released from prison in 1942, 8 year old Charles was over the moon. But after a short period of good behavior from both of them, things went south. Kathleen had a hard time staying on the straight and narrow, and Charles took his cues from her. He stopped going to school and started stealing from local shops. By the time Kathleen finally decided to get her life on track in 1943, she couldn't control her son anymore. In 1947, when Charles was 12, she sent him to a reform school in Terre Haute, Indiana, called the Jibot School for Boys. Predictably, things didn't go well. Within 10 months, Charles had run away multiple times. He alternated between going back to his family and living on his own, stealing to get by. When he inevitably got caught, he was sent to even stricter institutions. In 1949, at 13 years old, Charles found himself at a place called the Indiana Boys School. And that's when his life became a living hell. It wasn't like things had been easy until this point. But at the Indiana Boys School, things took a tragically dark turn. According to Charles, he was sexually assaulted by some of his fellow students. And to make a horrifying situation even worse, it was apparently encouraged by a staff member.
- [08:46]
Dr. Tristan Engels
Oh, wow. There's a lot to unpack here. So until this point, Charles has had no real stability or security in his life, starting from a very young age, not to mention the many broken attachments he's had until this point. His mother was seemingly grooming him into a career criminal and then once again abandoned him, this time to a reform school, because she could no longer control what she herself had actually helped to create. Now at this boy's school, he continues to lack any control over his life and once again the adults that should be protecting him aren't and instead are encouraging crimes against him. And this I believe greatly impacted his ability to empathize with others or rather his lack of ability to do that. And why? He only forms attachments to others if he has something to gain from them and those attachments will remain superficial. He is learning more versatile ways to be a criminal and more importantly this really shapes who he is to become. His lack of control is going to be overcompensated by a need to always be in control of everyone and everything around him, which we will definitely be getting into in detail as you take us through his story.
- [10:07]
Vanessa Richardson
Follow Killer Minds a Crime House Studios Original now new episodes drop every Monday and Thursday. Again, that's Killer Minds. Follow now wherever you get your podcasts and for early ad free access subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts.