43:I[58016,["/_next/static/chunks/0e29vbidvogc6.js","/_next/static/chunks/09md0.811p4qk.js","/_next/static/chunks/0jjo8hz~ewue4.js","/_next/static/chunks/084k0pvimg.lq.js","/_next/static/chunks/0a~e7k..h6jfc.js","/_next/static/chunks/0d1e9m2ig9v3v.js","/_next/static/chunks/0dzini03ngxm2.js","/_next/static/chunks/0rizq9ux3s1w3.js","/_next/static/chunks/139o5utivfajl.js","/_next/static/chunks/0i-f~c821e7uk.js","/_next/static/chunks/0z7avafhgjcyr.js"],"ProcessEpisodeButton"] 45:I[185,["/_next/static/chunks/0e29vbidvogc6.js","/_next/static/chunks/09md0.811p4qk.js","/_next/static/chunks/0jjo8hz~ewue4.js","/_next/static/chunks/084k0pvimg.lq.js","/_next/static/chunks/0a~e7k..h6jfc.js","/_next/static/chunks/0d1e9m2ig9v3v.js","/_next/static/chunks/0dzini03ngxm2.js","/_next/static/chunks/0rizq9ux3s1w3.js","/_next/static/chunks/139o5utivfajl.js","/_next/static/chunks/0i-f~c821e7uk.js","/_next/static/chunks/0z7avafhgjcyr.js"],"SendEmailButton"] 46:I[45269,["/_next/static/chunks/0e29vbidvogc6.js","/_next/static/chunks/09md0.811p4qk.js","/_next/static/chunks/0jjo8hz~ewue4.js","/_next/static/chunks/084k0pvimg.lq.js","/_next/static/chunks/0a~e7k..h6jfc.js","/_next/static/chunks/0d1e9m2ig9v3v.js","/_next/static/chunks/0dzini03ngxm2.js","/_next/static/chunks/0rizq9ux3s1w3.js","/_next/static/chunks/139o5utivfajl.js","/_next/static/chunks/0i-f~c821e7uk.js","/_next/static/chunks/0z7avafhgjcyr.js"],"SignupCTA"] 48:I[56939,["/_next/static/chunks/0e29vbidvogc6.js","/_next/static/chunks/09md0.811p4qk.js","/_next/static/chunks/0jjo8hz~ewue4.js","/_next/static/chunks/084k0pvimg.lq.js","/_next/static/chunks/0a~e7k..h6jfc.js","/_next/static/chunks/0d1e9m2ig9v3v.js","/_next/static/chunks/0dzini03ngxm2.js","/_next/static/chunks/0rizq9ux3s1w3.js","/_next/static/chunks/139o5utivfajl.js","/_next/static/chunks/0i-f~c821e7uk.js","/_next/static/chunks/0z7avafhgjcyr.js"],"EpisodeTranscript"] 3d:["$","div",null,{"className":"flex flex-col gap-2 text-sm text-muted-foreground","children":[["$","span",null,{"className":"inline-flex items-center gap-2 bg-secondary/50 px-3 py-1 rounded-full","children":[["$","svg",null,{"className":"w-4 h-4","fill":"none","stroke":"currentColor","viewBox":"0 0 24 24","children":["$","path",null,{"strokeLinecap":"round","strokeLinejoin":"round","strokeWidth":2,"d":"M8 7V3m8 4V3m-9 8h10M5 21h14a2 2 0 002-2V7a2 2 0 00-2-2H5a2 2 0 00-2 2v12a2 2 0 002 2z"}]}],["$","time",null,{"dateTime":"2021-02-07T21:45:15.000Z","children":"Sun Feb 07 2021"}]]}],["$","p",null,{"className":"text-base text-foreground/80 leading-relaxed","children":"In their first joint interview, the director of the UK spy agency GCHQ and the top general in charge of cyber operations for the military talk about how the UK is using the power of cyber to push back against adversaries with the creation of a whole..."}]]}] 44:T526,In their first joint interview, the director of the UK spy agency GCHQ and the top general in charge of cyber operations for the military talk about how the UK is using the power of cyber to push back against adversaries with the creation of a whole new National Cyber Force.

Jeremy Fleming and General Sir Patrick Sanders also reveal new details about how the UK used offensive cyber in the fight against Islamic State, attacking the terrorist group’s ability to fly drones, use their mobile phones and spread online propaganda.

We also hear from a woman who was once described as the UK’s best offensive cyber spy.

Sally Walker has since left GCHQ and says she is choosing to speak out – now she’s once again a member of the public – to help generate a wider debate about the cyber grey zone.

Interviews:
Jeremy Fleming, director of GCHQ
General Sir Patrick Sanders, commander of Strategic Command
Sally Walker, cyber expert
Tobias Elwood, Conservative MP, chair of the defence select committee and former foreign officer and defence minister

Credits:
Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes
Edited and produced by Chris Scott
Production support from Michael Green

Episode Five: Cyber Power (Part II) - Hacking ISIS