Invest Like the Best EP.448: Ari Emanuel – The Anti-AI Bet

Date: November 19, 2025
Host: Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Guest: Ari Emanuel, Executive Chairman of WME Group, overseer of TKO (UFC & WWE), founder of Mari

Episode Overview

Main Theme:
Ari Emanuel—a powerhouse in sports, media, and entertainment—shares his "anti-AI bet": as artificial intelligence reduces the cost and barriers of digital content creation, he sees value concentrating in live, in-person experiences. Emanuel details his journey building influential brands, his principles for relentless execution, the evolution of content markets, and his strategic response to the AI boom. The conversation is an energetic masterclass on dealmaking, resilience, and finding opportunities where technology cannot follow.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Ari’s Origin Story with UFC & Live Events

• Initial Involvement with UFC and Business Magic

  • Ari started in entertainment representing both WWE and UFC. He saw surging ratings for UFC but undervalued licensing (05:22).
  • Quote: “When I signed the UFC, it was on Spike. We had a whole division … and then I realized, wow, this thing’s ratings are starting to move ... they were making $15 million a year from Spike. The first deal I made ... I increased it to 75.” (Ari Emanuel, 05:22)
  • Grew UFC from $15M domestic licensing to $75M at Spike, then $150M at Fox, culminating in massive deals as the business transitioned through acquisition and streaming deals.
  • The acquisition of IMG provided global infrastructure for licensing, distribution, and event production.

• Navigating Crises and Seizing Opportunities

  • Emanuel’s greatest business pain came when locked into a major UFC deal with no bidders after media consolidation (13:00).
  • Quote: “My thyroid went on the fritz. There was so much pressure. I went down to 142 pounds ... Once it got done, everything came back and calmed down.” (Ari Emanuel, 13:00)
  • During COVID, UFC staged fights on "Fight Island," keeping live sports going and catapulting pay-per-view numbers: “No one else is doing anything. ... it blows up.” (09:36–09:40)

Relentless Execution: Ari’s Operating System

• Personal Principles: Never Off the Field—Until You Need To Be

  • Raised in a hyper-competitive family with a relentless mother, Ari shares that dyslexia suited him for rejection and pushing through embarrassment.
  • Quote: “Somebody saying, no—who cares? I just keep on trying to open more doors.” (Ari Emanuel, 10:13)
  • Emotional endurance from wrestling shaped his business tenacity: “I can handle a lot of emotional pain ... That you can handle that emotional pain, and that’s also in business.” (12:06)
  • Jeff Bezos’s advice was pivotal: “You have to at your age, Ari, now know when you're on the field and know when you're off the field.” (11:13)

• Velocity and Communication

  • Ari is known for his relentless follow-up and unmatched response speed:
    • Quote: “Relentless follow up and communication. Overcommunication. … That’s the job.” (36:22)
    • System has spread to his children in the entertainment industry.
    • People feel things "matter" when Ari’s involved: “If I'm going to be involved in something, it matters to me.” (37:48)

Evolution of Content, Power, and AI

• Changing Content Economics

  • The past: rich, multi-window content economics (TV syndication, strong independent producers).
  • The present: Majors control supply and distribution, independents squeezed out (13:52–16:11).
  • No more syndication bonanza: now, “the majors [are] supplying the majors.”
  • AI is a “greatest average” tool that radically reduces costs: “The marginal cost becomes zero ... you can do an album in your bed. I think the same thing's true [for film].” (16:15–16:55)
  • New distribution is direct and social: influencers as channels (think Dwayne Johnson), "taste" and curation become essential.

• Content IP and Legal Risks with AI

  • Strong stance: content used to train AI models without compensation should result in lawsuits.
  • Quote: “Yeah, they should all get sued.” (Ari Emanuel, 19:10)
  • Expectation that rights holders will win payments, unless blocked by higher courts.

The Anti-AI Bet: Live Events as Enduring Value

• Why Bet on Live?

  • As AI and automation make digital creation cheap and abundant, humans crave IRL, communal, status-bearing, and exclusive experiences.
  • Quote: “Live is the opposite bet... I just know how to create really great live events, monetize them, have a great user experience. And it’s the opposite, because data centers aren’t the opposite bet. Live is the opposite bet.” (Ari Emanuel, 19:47–20:56)
  • Ari marshals assets in art (Freeze), sports (UFC, WWE, tennis, bull riding), cars, and food festivals—focused on premium, global, affinity-based audiences.
  • Mari (his new company) aims to become the Live Nation for non-music global events, bolstered by ticketing tech and premium hospitality.

• Monetization in Live Events

  • The premium experience curve is still being discovered: VIPs want more, and will pay eye-watering sums for access, status, and shareable experiences (23:35–24:46).
  • Tech like “TodayTix” and event platform ambitions aim to vertically integrate and enhance monetization.
  • Quote: "In every category there's premiums and people pay. ... Where it ends, I don't know. But it is a huge premium business." (Ari Emanuel, 24:41)

Playbooks for Building, Owning, and Dealmaking

• From Agent to Owner:

  • Legendary merger with William Morris took seven years and meticulous internal chess-playing. The lesson: relentless, nuanced stakeholder management.
  • Quote: "We just played the chess match on their side and then took over the company ... it was the best deal I ever made." (Ari Emanuel, 45:54–47:11)
  • After becoming an owner and buyer, Ari shifted from aggressive “fighter” to more nuanced “dancer” in negotiations.
  • Owner’s mindset: personally moved to the UK post-IMG acquisition to directly learn and steer the global business.

• How Ari Chose Clients and Deals:

  • Taste and relentless follow-up earned access to the best clients, setting the foundation for power.
  • Quote: “Having a great client meant you had access. So you had to have taste and you had to get great clients.” (34:21)

Business and Cultural Predictions

• Content: Ubiquity and the Rise of Personal Channels

  • “Dwayne Johnson, Mark Wahlberg, Dana White, Pat McAfee—they’re all going to become their own channels. ... Representation has to change its infrastructure.” (Ari Emanuel, 52:38–53:22)
  • Social influence = distribution power. New “Oprah effect”: successful podcasters/creators will sponsor, syndicate, and profit from next-generation talent (53:26–54:14).

• Sports Industry Outlook

  • Asset prices (teams, live rights, tickets) will rise, PE will take larger stakes, risk of pricing out some fans, but demand remains insatiable (54:19–54:52).
  • Gambling will increase data transparency and reduce cheating, though Ari is personally against gambling for his children (55:07–55:40).

• AI and Society

  • Ari is candid about AI’s ambiguous social impact, anxiety over the future of work, and the need for new models for his own children.
  • Quote (via Elon Musk): “AI is you and you’re the dog. ... That’s what’s happening. That’s going to happen.” (57:26)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Relentless Execution:
  • “My life, it makes shit happen over and over and over and over. Relentlessly. Not taking no.” (10:03)
• On Taste in Content:
  • “People with taste that know this business ... actually has value.” (17:47)
• On Live as an Asset:
  • “Live cannot be disrupted.” (57:26, relayed from Elon Musk)
• On Deal-making:
  • “Your job is to make sure the other side ... feels good.” (44:28)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Ari’s Start in UFC, Business Growth: 05:22–09:36
• Dealing with Uncertainty & Emotional Endurance: 13:00–13:42
• Evolution of Content Economics & Power: 13:52–19:04
• AI and the New Distribution Landscape: 16:11–17:47
• Live Events Strategy / Monetization: 19:47–24:41
• Ari’s Operating System (Communication, Speed): 35:40–37:48
• Agency to Ownership, Merger Playbook: 45:54–48:30
• Deal-making Philosophy: 44:28–45:31
• Education, Dyslexia, Family Dynamics: 10:13, 30:41–31:19, 49:03–50:44
• On Kids and the Future: 57:26–58:33
• On What Excites Him Now: 59:12–60:10

The Episode’s Tone

Ari is intense, hyper-candid, and full of lived wisdom—blunt but funny, self-aware, and grounded in competition and execution. His style is direct and energetic, and Patrick brings thoughtful follow-up questions that keep the conversation grounded yet fast-paced.

For Listeners Who Haven't Tuned In

This episode is a primer on the future of content and live experiences from a dealmaker with a rare vantage point. You’ll get lessons on resilience, how to win and endure in high-stakes environments, why AI will transform but not consume every industry, and why the "opposite bet"—live, communal, cultural experiences—remains a bastion of value. Ari is perhaps the best example of relentless execution and strategic reinvention in the era of unstoppable digital change.

Listen if:

• You want to understand the intersection of AI, sports, media, and live experiences
• You value high-level dealmaking insights and how to handle existential business risk
• You need inspiration on resilience, adapting after setbacks, and creating value where others see risk

“If I'm going to be involved in something, it matters to me. So therefore I'm going to take it to the point where I can get it done.”
– Ari Emanuel (37:48)