← Investment Climate Podcast
Investment Climate Podcast
On surviving Corporate VC Due Diligence and the 1% Conversion Rate Reality - Tomas Turner, Cosaic
00:42:13
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- [00:00]
Thomas Turner
What in the end happened a little for us with both this and other CVCs is actually was a little close to the opposite of the entry door for deepening deepening relationship is interacting with the business part of these corporates and asking them oh, can we talk also to your CVC partner often that is actually even a better way because they are the CVC is asked by their business part. So that is even a warm intro from the corporates. All right. Hello everyone, my name is Thomas Turner. I'm the CEO and co founder of Kozaic. At Kozaik we beat the status quo and clean labels from any animals, any allergens and any additives. We have a biomass fermentation platform that we develop where we grow yeast to accumulate fat protein fibers and then we use our proprietary technology to extract this in functional ingredients that can work across the spectrum to replace milk, eggs and a bunch of also additives or cocktails of additives to make the food system a more sustainable kinder place and also more functional place.
- [01:04]
Alex
Amazing. I've actually had Tom's products. This like taste test that I really love about the functionality is probably since really is incredible. Someone who, who drinks a protein shake for example on a daily basis. I would say like gosh, let's get this in my shake like today.
- [01:20]
Thomas Turner
Yeah, no, absolutely. It's amazing to see all the reaction that we've had recently. We brought brought things also to partners to see really the difference that we do also in masking off notes in astringency, masking, whitening and yeah, we get very good results, very good reactions. I think also we got also some ego boosts by having the partnership with big people like Ingredient and also the San Feminist leading around of $6 million that we closed very recently.
- [01:49]
Alex
Amazing. Yeah, we're going to jump right into it. So how did you meet dsm? Like what was the history like and when did that relationship start?
- [01:57]
Thomas Turner
So the first touch point of that relationship goes back in 2022 when we just had started and we were into the Mass Challenge accelerator. They organized a visit to DSM and we did it. It was great. I talked also to Julian, Julian Bakson who is an associate there. We discussed and, and also we discovered that we live in the nearby villages. So he offered me a ride back home so we could chat about everything. So that was a first touch point and also it was great to really get to know like really the human side of of him. And I think getting to know the human side of the pool in front of you is fundamental and Then later it was picked up we met at FFT London, we met Akshat and we met also the other colleagues on on the business side and since then with all the different parties of the SM business and not we have kept regular contact which ended up in DAMI investing us. It's been a long relationship and also I think again one person told me investors invest in a movie, not a picture. And this is also another testament for this.
- [03:09]
Alex
Oh, interesting way of looking at. What I'm curious about is how is getting corporate VC cash different from a vc, right? Is it a different sale as an investment was a process a bit different. I'm pretty familiar with DSM myself but let's open the door from your perspective. How does it look like getting a deal done with dsm? What was the process look like and how is the difference going through traditional VC?
- [03:35]
Thomas Turner
Yeah, I think also yeah from speaking to several CVCs their relationship with also the strategic side is fundamental and any CVC that you speak to, unless they have a specific financial interest, all of them will ask to have a specific angles to the business. And so it requires definitely going through a lot of due diligence with the business side on the technical side. On the IP side. DSM specifically has it's goes and looks very much on things like technical and IP also because they have the expertise to do it. So that's been great. And in general so CBCs they want to have a relationship with the business to advance.
- [04:18]
Alex
Yeah. So it sounds like you're basically meeting with the CVC arm and then they're bringing in different departments to do due diligence on you on business and also on technical.
- [04:27]
Thomas Turner
Yes, for, for sure. That's happening a lot also what in the end happened a little for us with both this and other CVCs is actually was a little close to the opposite of the entry door for deepening, deepening relationship is interacting with the business part of these corporates and asking them oh can we talk also to your CVC partner? Nothing that is actually even a better way because they are the CVC is asked by their business part. So, so that is even a warm intro from their. The. The corporate.
- [05:00]
Alex
Yeah, I love that. So you're essentially using the business unit to make an intro into the investment arm. I love that. So like a big question that comes up to me and I think a lot of our listeners are curious about this is like wow, DSM is huge. Right. They're, they're massive like in, in the words of like you know, Mr. O' Leary from Shark Tank. Like they could crush you like a bug. So that's kind of the, the notion what is the incentive of a DSM to partner with cosec rather than compete with cosec?
- [05:27]
Thomas Turner
I think. Well, like, like most companies see that innovation needs to be bought in know that R and D budgets are going down across the food industry and they are. The whole industry is like going towards more of a pharma model of going more investment, early stage and then M and A to get the innovation that they need. So I think it is into this direction. They, the SMA and other parties have seen the promise of our ingredient Cossack Neo across various categories, across carry categories, the functionality that it brings, the stringency masking and other things and reacted to it and say okay, this is. We would love to be part of this journey.
- [06:16]
Alex
Open that up for me a little bit. Which I like that you brought up the pharma model. Why do you think those R and D budgets are going down? And why would you know how do you protect yourself as a startup when you're working with a corporate about getting make sure your IP is protected. Right. Because they have, you know, how does that actually practically happen? Are you just sharing part of the process? Is there a very ironclad MDA like what are the things that you feel like you're doing to protect yourself? And the. The second thing again going to that viewpoint of the corporate. Is it just simply the budgets getting cut or is that startups are just more efficient than doing R and D or early stage R and D maybe than maybe the corporate itself.
- [06:57]
Thomas Turner
Yes. So regarding the two questions. So here on the last question I will speak only actually more on the macro level from this I do have only limited knowledge but in general unlike public companies are having a huge, a huge pressure. If you look across ingredient groups in the last years. So stock prices have gone down. There is definitely a lot happening. We just saw also in. In Nestle the reprioritization that has been driven in the last year because shareholders are asking to prioritize on. On selling, on focusing on the corpse. So that is I think a trend that is happening due to public market pressures. And though then they say that oh will bring in innovation later and pay you for it through M and A. Regarding when the company.
- [07:46]
Alex
I'll just add to Thomas point again I need to look at this but I believe I saw this in Peak Bridge. And you know when you have SaaS in SaaS corporates actually like 25% goes into R and D like you have massive investments into R and D&SaaS, corporates and development. And in the food industry, I think it's like something 2 or 3% like it. It is an emphasis on your month, your quarterly revenue. Right. So they're going to put into marketing sales the new product. But with the traditional methods like you know, we're going to put peanut butter in here, chocolate chip in here, maybe lower sugar there. But fundamental R and D, they just, the level of focus is really focused on more the sale and the growth. Right. Top line growth rather than development of novel solutions. Right. So it's quite different from the software side or even traditional markets.
- [08:35]
Thomas Turner
Right.
- [08:36]
Alex
R D and food is very limited.
- [08:38]
Thomas Turner
Fully agree. And I cannot, I don't know exactly things. Well, a big difference is just well profit margins, SaaS can run on like 60% gross margins while in the food industry spending B2B or B2C. Those gross margins for an ingredient group, RG ingredient groups gross margins are for sure lower than 20% for many. Like if you go in specialty, it's higher. And there are companies with specialty that want a 20% EBITDA. But there is clearly there are different worlds in terms of gross margins and what it allows to spend on R
- [09:15]
Alex
and D. Yeah, I love that and I would add to that and I'm curious if you agree with this and not talking about DSM in particular, but I'm just saying in other places I've worked in the past is I've seen corporates, they know the speed the startups bring and also the salaries often that, that they incur. You know, the law of founders will work extremely hard for equity. While you know, a corporate really relies on high salaries. Right. So you know, innovation is slower, let's just say. And also the risk that carries would be better to be externalized to a partner. So if they don't deliver, okay, that's a risk that was handled on the startup side. So actually corporates are often risk averse, especially moving fast. One of my mentors, he told me he's not very funny. He said to me, alex, you know what I like about you working a startup is you don't have to be legal. Like I said, you basically do illegal things. Like we can't, you can be illegal
- [10:08]
Thomas Turner
if you hire a large company, I don't know Nestle, etc, your reputation is on the line and it's a huge. So it's something huge as a startup, you can go and take more risk. Also one thing that I thought of like difference of SaaS and food and beverage and pharma. In the end there is just the risk of being displaced is much higher for SaaS for SAS. Thus if they don't spend on R and D next wave of young people will completely change change things. While food and beverages has much more inertia. And we know that to succeed you're much more likely to succeed if you work with an incumbent because you need to build distribution network. It's hardware you need to upscale to hundreds of thousands of tons that needs to move through the world so they have much more time in food, in food and beverages to see a trend and something that would disrupt them and eat them and not being the first one on the table.
- [11:04]
Alex
Yeah, I love that. I think to our listeners this is. Thomas is really hitting a really core point here which is if you look at SaaS how vulnerable it is especially with cloud code and everything. Just look at those industries. They're really under pressure. And one of the biggest mistakes VCs did in 2021, 2020 they thought that the food industry functions like SaaS.
- [11:27]
Thomas Turner
Yes.
- [11:27]
Alex
We'll just have. We'll take someone who is really exciting, went to a great school but never has any food experience. And they disrupt meat. No, I actually think that the meat industry is really good at margins and they have a really like understanding of good supply chain. Like there's a lot of. It's quite difficult to disrupt Nestle. Very difficult to disrupt Nestle. Right. So I love that. And then to take us now that that's where the positioning is. But how do you protect yourself as a startup? You know, how do you protect your ip? How do you protect your. The value you guys bring in negotiations with a corporate.
- [12:01]
Thomas Turner
Yes, absolutely. I think there is always this discussion of like how there is value creation and value distribution between the parties. So I think and these are two separate discussions one should always think of like the goal is also that there is value creation. So there is sometimes being startups really paranoid attitude that even goes and blocks any value creation. So the North Star is we need to work together to improve this food system and create better products for customers and for the final clients that pay. So this is something first that needs to be thought about. Then regarding value distribution and IP there there will be needs to be very clear on what do we work on, who is bringing which expertise, what is the scope, geography, application, etc. And then the discuss of like how to structure things. There are various models, there are an exclusivity but a license, there is joint IP you can Discuss then on like based on the right of first refusals, the right to first negotiations that have been interesting for us and different things to avoid. For sure you want to avoid all the IP goes to one party. You want to avoid exclusivity in everything. And then you mostly work on like what is the value of being created. What are you corporate bringing it as value and try to really have a discussion on on those specific topics. And of course applying always the immense value that you as a startup are bringing. What would be the counterfactual so what would not exist in the world if you were there and start from there.
- [13:43]
Alex
Yeah, I've. I've seen in my past exclusivity and region worked pretty well. Hey we'll give you X and Y and Z region where you're headquartered and but we know it's not our target market. You'll take us to regulatory and then. But the main region stays United States. We want to have our own control of distribution. Right. So that's an interesting play. Anything legally wise MTAs, anything that you think are important there that founders should understand. I mean I legal cacules. Right. Especially with big corporates anything about how to move legal fast that protects you.
- [14:16]
Thomas Turner
So I think there are several steps that one should go through. Well if you do initial trials I think it's good to stage us with standard NDA and MTAs. For us it's been important to keep NDAs and MTAs and we've been very strict on that just to protect us from an IP perspective and our ingredient and the applications created from our ingredient. And then when you go and discuss okay we want to something do something bigger together and this is beyond just doing trials really start in the end is start with a term sheet and the term sheet doesn't need to have lawyers and really think again of this. What is the value create creation. What is the scenarios that this collaboration can go spell this out and then bring in bring in the lawyers to discuss. We have also in the past started to talk about legal documents us ourselves without the lawyers. I think that has been a mistake that costed a few months. So some sometimes for speed's sake. As soon as you have this term sheet this idea clearly in place bring in bringing the lawyers to shape the company.
- [15:19]
Alex
Yeah I think that every startup founder is just dreaming of Harvey or Claude Law to just be a co pilot in that process for sure. Win or lose, lawyers win. That's, that's always, always a process. But I, I obviously you have to be very, very tight in making mistakes that will be problematic for you.
- [15:40]
Thomas Turner
Yes. And another thing as well, discussing with other founders there is often an asymmetry of information because a corporate might have done several deals with several startups. Us, we haven't done many. We had a few discussions. So then it's always good to talk to others of like how have you worked with this? Et cetera. We talked to several with both and we have talked to several founders that have worked with ingredient. We have talked to founders who work with the SM to understand of like how do they approach what have been their process. So that is definitely fundamental.
- [16:13]
Alex
Yeah, I'll say without disclosing too much, you know, conversations around valuations and these things are also good things to talk with founders as well. Say, you know, I know you closed a recent round with this vc well, what did it look like? Right? What were the terms? How was it working with us? So I think founders the sense I get, at least in my experience they talk to founders pretty openly. We want all of the win. Right. Leveraging each other gives us a little bit more leverage than just going on our own. I speak with founders raising every day and they're all telling me the same thing. It's harder than ever to find investors who are actually deploying and getting access to to those leads takes time founders just don't have. Every month fundraising is a month burning Runway. This is why we created ftw, a community of founders actively fundraising the world's most accurate agri food tech investor database. Plus connecting you directly to ideal target investors and a community of support and accountability. Guaranteed results or your money back. Apply today at www.www.joinftw.com hub
- [17:21]
Thomas Turner
Absolutely. And well here I'm doing a shout out to two things. One is the icy dinners that Alex is organizing around the world. I'm hosting one in FNA next next week. Maybe we'll be already past when this podcast comes out, but definitely always a good idea. Second Shout out is IMO organizing a monthly call of founders. Also here I'm starting starting to collaborate on Alex to rejoin this FTW ecosystem and feel free to reach out if you want to discuss this. It's mostly for B2B. Ingredient is the current focus but we might expand it and really sharing ideas on things on fundraising and also other challenges discussing together how to get clients, how to help each other, how do we work with employees, all of kind of topics that we are all thinking about and finding solutions to.
- [18:13]
Alex
Well I'll say just shout out to Thomas. I've learned tremendous things from him and being part of this monthly groups and it's. You know that's that we have for each other in this space and it's impressive what you've been able to build for them, my friend. Now I'm curious about this co value creation. I love how you place it that way. And then if you look with DSM what is the value you guys create for them? Just take me through. Why do they need you? Like what are you doing that they. That hasn't been done before.
- [18:43]
Thomas Turner
Yes. So I will not be able to disclose too too much unfortunately. But there are some aspects of the functionality. So we have different different functionalities that especially combine various proteins et cetera can be very interesting and they have seen identified a few of these valuable proposition that is of very a very high interest. We have both worked with two of the main business business unit at at the SM and we have advanced working with them in core strategic areas and seeing that our ingredients can do things that internally they cannot do.
- [19:26]
Alex
Yeah. And. And I love what you've done is you have a really nice way of sampling which essentially you. You have this. Well, this is the comparison. Right. So this is what traditionally it looks like and then not taste our experience. Right. Any insights you can share about. Because I think you do a really good job of like showing. Not saying. Not talking about it but showing it which is really great in food. Any insights you can share with our with our audience about how you do samples or live samples how you do a test. You know this is what you're testing against.
- [19:57]
Thomas Turner
Absolutely. So I think when we do samplings we look at two categories. One is samples that are in emotion and then there are samples that are like the truth of the value proposition. Indeed. So regarding the last one we often do things like sample of a protein shake where people just can physically see or smell the difference between if there is kozaic or Kozaic is not inside what is that is the difference.
- [20:24]
Alex
So we do this to get us a sense of what that looks like. You have basically two small cups. Right. Two glass cups or two shot glasses that are both filled with something. And then you show that the cosaic1 has XYZ different properties against the control.
- [20:39]
Thomas Turner
Correct, Correct. So we do this and then there are samples that are more to just say this is an amazing product. And there it's a bit less about the control. We have done samples often of for example liquors like Acharna Chocolate is Bailey's liquor. The functionality that we showcase is Very stable in alcohol. And also we don't need additives. Fun fact. Bailey's actually contains additives. It contains emulsifiers. And we can do it without the animal and without the additives. But especially, it's just people love this product. Whether we do it with more of a chocolate flavor or more with a marzin flavor. I've seen the reaction of people and they love it. And so food is also emotions. And this is another sample that we show. So we can really show the both things of this world. We can show the experience of the comparison, like the scientific part and then the emotional part.
- [21:31]
Alex
Yeah. Also, it definitely helps when somebody gets drunk on your samples. I think the experience just improves immediately.
- [21:38]
Thomas Turner
We show only small amounts, but definitely always helps.
- [21:42]
Alex
Okay, curious. I've seen some VCs say we prefer not to get to have a corporate on the cap table. I think that has changed a lot, by the way, in the last three years. But that's one of the objections that people say about having a corporate like a DSM is they don't care about valuations. What they care about is only about. No, they can hold for 10 years. As long as they're getting R and D products. As long as you're moving, they're not looking for an exit. Right. It's a very different interest than say, a vc. So how is having somebody like a DSM an advantage for Kasek rather than, say, a disadvantage for you?
- [22:19]
Thomas Turner
I think it's the credibility and the due diligence that have. We have been through. So we have been through quite a few due diligences. This has been the most thorough that I haven't been through, especially on an IP part and a technology part. Other VCs have focused on founders and we have discussed founders. But if a CVC or especially a CVC like the SM that has a food and biotechnology strong background have gone through. We've had so many meetings with IP people, technical people. This is the thing that they bring that people coming in, in the cap table know that. Well, they pass this through this very intense due diligence on the IP and technology side. They're solid. So this is, I think, for people coming in and recently coming in, this is a core thing for us as founders. I think there is the strategic advantage we already seen, like on our boards, we have somebody great, Akshat who has joined us on the board. And it's great to have people that have this understanding of biotechnology and food and when we discuss the roadmap, really can bring added value and given the portfolio that they have, really can have this understanding and work with us to challenge the roadmap to really create something that will bring value and make us company great within the next five to seven years.
- [23:41]
Alex
Yeah. What you're saying is so beautiful. And for our listeners, you know here with this one, he's looking at dsm. Now you think, well, DSM is a commercial distribution partner, but really corporate. What they really can actually do uniquely well is give you technological due diligence and give a sense of security. That there's something really unique here that on a level that a journalist VC or even a specialist VC just wouldn't be able to do. Like they just have the resources for it. So which leads me to kind of the next stage which is who are the other vc? Who are the other people came on the cap table and why were they a good fit for this round?
- [24:19]
Thomas Turner
Absolutely. So there were. So we had two other new and then two existing. The new ones was a large family office, a Swiss family family office that came through a connection through one of our existing investor founderful that connected us to this family office. We had also a new fund called Kirkfund that they had also invested at CLA previously and through that had had exposure to us and then decided to continue investing so they can continue investing in us. So I think those are two great partners that we advance. And then we had also Navus Ventures was the lead, the last round who doubled down and invested also significantly and same thing for the Zurich Cantonal bank that also invested. One thing of these parties that has been great is really well one thing that I try to do when I fundraise is with this fundraise I'm preparing for the next one and I'm preparing for the life of the company. And what we have seen is we had get gotten a great track record of the people that come in in a round reinvesting the other round. And so it's people that have the financial capacity and firepower to do it, can interact with us and during the next 12 to 24 months see how we work and can get the conviction of like these are the people that we want to continue betting in. And also we have been bringing on more patient capital, more family offices, institution like C Cantanalbank corporate like dsm because there is an element of this building in food requires some patience. And we are very happy to bringing on the type of capital that really can enable food companies to grow big and an important way.
- [26:05]
Alex
And the family office does have a strategic play there with food or they like what was the fit there? Anything you can without disclosing the family office itself. Was was there a specific strategic play why they they batted K or was it a trust factor from the other family office?
- [26:19]
Thomas Turner
No. So the family office is a Swiss family office. They invest across Switzerland. They do have experience in food. So definitely there is an interest in there, but there is no strategic angle.
- [26:32]
Alex
Okay, now take us, zoom us out for the last section which is really curious about. Let's go towards kind of the numbers because I, I, I think it's important to highlight to our listeners how this pro, you know, this process takes time and also takes a lot of courage. Right. So how many would you say you describe your pipeline from? This is the investor we screen. This is the investors we kind of engage in. First discussion. This is the one I went to due diligence and this is what we closed just by the numbers.
- [26:58]
Thomas Turner
Yeah. So I think we, we reached out to over 250 people. Well of which I think 150 people we knew could be could be interested. And there were additional a hundred that we got from a list and said let's try I think of these had over six, I think 60 conversations of the of these several others went into more advanced stages. We had two term sheets and then we advanced with one and we ended up with three new investors.
- [27:33]
Alex
Okay, great. So it's basically you can get like almost like a 1% conversion rate. And from the people on the list were all three new investors people that were on that original list or at least one of them was introduced to you that you didn't know initially existed.
- [27:47]
Thomas Turner
One of them was introduced to us that we knew of their existence but we didn't really interact with that was the family office. This one was our existing investor that really made that connection.
- [28:00]
Alex
And was that practically asked or is that person just said hey, I think they may be a fit. Like what was the what made them think of you and were you proactively coaching your investors to make intros for you?
- [28:11]
Thomas Turner
So what has been amazing of our existing investor base is it's in their process. So everybody has all of our investors have been active. I would give a special shout out to Founderful because they are really extremely helpful of thinking and being our even better setup of being thinking of who are the right fits. So that has been founderful has been an amazing partner for that and also the other existing investors have helped out a lot.
- [28:42]
Alex
And if you take Funderful, was that like a weekly meeting you'd had or a monthly meeting with them or is it just organically happening throughout?
- [28:49]
Thomas Turner
It was more organically. It's mostly through our list. We had a list in the Notion with our pipeline and interaction for that.
- [28:56]
Alex
Okay, perfect. Yeah, that sounds really good. And congratulations on building those relationships where they feel confident making those interests for you and think that you guys are top of mind.
- [29:07]
Thomas Turner
Yeah, absolutely.
- [29:08]
Alex
Any. Anything about the. The data room or the valuation, something that I feel like you guys did really well in, in preparing for this that other founders can look at. You know, it sounds like you guys, you were using Notion for the data room, is that correct?
- [29:22]
Thomas Turner
No, for the data room, we use DocSend. Okay. And I've heard and no other founders use the notion and had good stories. We ended up using DocSend. What have been very good for DocSend is a couple of feature. One is just knowing who is looking at what when. That has been very good to giving me an idea. How are people engaging somebody? Has somebody just looked at my deck yesterday and I can reach out to them saying, oh, I saw that you reached out. Or do you have questions about this document? So I think that has been a feature that's been important. And then change of accesses as we've had, especially more on the C CVC part, there are some documents that we couldn't share because we work with, with several types of people and we want to make sure that all our NDAs are respected. So then there are some things that, especially if there were any conflict of interest, any competition thing, we made sure that the accesses that we gave did not cover things that were of any competitive nature.
- [30:22]
Alex
Okay. Yeah, I've used dachshund in the past as well. It's kind of addictive to look every week I'm like, oh, he spent 20 minutes on this one document. That's fascinating. It's quite fun. It's like a voyeurism of dachshunds. A little voyeurism. Last question before we take us out, which is. Yeah, I want to talk about mindset a little bit because, you know, there's a lot of nos that you experienced here. And I think that being a founder is really, you have to be very psychologically strong or sick person. I'm not sure which one. You have to, you know, you have to be one or the other usually. But is there something that you found is very unique in the way you look at rejection that you know, that other founders can learn from? Because there's a lot of rejection. We've talked about 300 found investors coming down to three or one. You know, that's a lot of no's in the process. Right. So any insights into your mindset of how to deal with that process?
- [31:10]
Thomas Turner
I think well there is a mix of like too bad for them and especially always look for the next thing. Like as long as you have the ball rolling on something and saying I'm gonna contact this person and this person, it's this person, it's this person, the rejection doesn't matter. You can have 200 things behind you. As long as you have carrot in front of you, you're gonna run for that carrot. So I think that's a very important thing. Another thing, well, for me it's been very important to have my co founder to discuss with me. I think my co founder is, I think is very known for his perseverance and in times that sometimes can be hard, having like people that are super perseverant is gold and allows you to go and advance with with all the full force that you need.
- [31:59]
Alex
Yeah, I, I, I, I find that it's very hilarious. I was just spoke with last week with a founder and he says it's really hard, it's, I'm just not going having all this rejection. I asked, well how, how many people have you spoken with? He says, well I, so far I spoke with five. I'm like five. Well I don't think you haven't even started rejections, they haven't even begun. I want to invite you to what you see very shortly. You haven't, it has not even begun the rejections for you.
- [32:23]
Thomas Turner
Absolutely not. There will be more coming for sure.
- [32:26]
Alex
More coming. Look, you've been so generous with us, we've learned so much from your process. How can we give back? What are you currently looking for in the, in the next say six months or three to six months? How can members of our community give back for everything you've shared with us?
- [32:40]
Thomas Turner
So I think there are a couple of things like most importantly, we want to engage with people that are looking for the solution that we can provide. Provide. So if you are thinking like oh we would love to have a product that's especially looking at liquid products where we can cover your off notes, where we can cover your astringency, where we can provide whitening to your RTDs, if we can provide replace your eggs in your mayonnaises, provide emulsification, all of these things, reach out, we would love to engage and see how we can provide solutions for you and that I think that's the most important thing.
- [33:16]
Alex
I highly encourage everyone, for the sake of my own wellness and mental clarity, that you should reach out to Thomas and then there'll be many Bailey celebrations based on this podcast. So thank you so much. My friend learned a lot.
- [33:28]
Thomas Turner
Absolutely. Thank you very much.
- [33:30]
Alex
One more thing. Don't close this episode yet. If you got value from this conversation, here's what I need from you. A five star rating. One comment, 20 seconds of your time. That's the deal. A five star rating means more founders find this content. And every time a founder raises, all boats are elevated. Every week I pick one random comment and send that person a complimentary copy of Investment climate. The book 50 sales playbooks from founders who actually raise money during the fundraising winter. Real strategies, real closes, real numbers, not theory. So if you want a copy, comment below. And if you haven't followed the show yet, do that too. And if there's a guest you want us to bring on the show, just drop us a note or send us an email. We'll read each and every one. Until then, keep on raising.