Podcast Summary: "What Does Antitrust Mean in 2025?"

Podcast: Is Business Broken?
Host: Kurt Nickish (A)
Guests: Dionne Lomax (B), Senior Lecturer, Markets, Public Policy and Law;
Kathy Fazio (C), Clinical Assistant Professor & Associate Dean of MBA Programs
Date: November 13, 2025
Produced by: Ravi K. Mehrotra Institute for Business, Markets & Society at BU Questrom School of Business

Overview:

This episode of Is Business Broken? explores the evolving landscape of antitrust policy and law, especially in the context of technology, deregulation, the labor market, and artificial intelligence. Host Kurt Nickish is joined by Dionne Lomax and Kathy Fazio—both antitrust experts with academic and DOJ backgrounds—to discuss what antitrust means in 2025, addressing misconceptions, regulatory challenges, and the impact of new market realities.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Historical Perspective and Definitions

• Antitrust Origins ([01:22]–[02:41])
  • The word “trust” in the late 1800s signified monopolistic business alliances (ex: Standard Oil).
  • The Sherman Antitrust Act (1890) was designed to keep markets open, fair, and competitive.
    • “The idea behind that landmark legislation was that it could ensure that markets would remain open, fair and competitive.” – Dionne Lomax [02:36]

2. Student Perceptions & Antitrust as Strategy

• Misconceptions Among Students ([03:11]–[04:46])
  • Students come in expecting antitrust to be “boring” or only about obvious cases (ex: Coke buying Pepsi).
  • In reality, antitrust law is dynamic and shapes many aspects of business strategy:
    • “What they forget is that antitrust is also a strategy...antitrust is at the background of all of those decisions.” – Dionne Lomax [04:14]

3. Deregulation and Competition

• Regulation as a Barrier or Facilitator? ([04:46]–[06:20])

  • Some regulation is key for consumer protection, but regulators are reassessing if certain rules now stifle competition.
  • Recent moves: FTC’s “Ferguson letter” and DOJ’s Anticompetitive Regulations Task Force examining if regulations block market entry.

• Real World Example – Certificate of Need Laws ([06:40]–[09:48])

  • Example: Nebraska case where a small transport startup was prevented from helping seniors due to incumbent competitors invoking regulatory barriers.
    • “That’s a regulation that’s operating to protect competitors, not seed competition.” – Kathy Fazio [08:40]

4. Antitrust and the Labor Market

• Focus on Non-Compete Agreements ([09:48]–[16:15])
  • Non-competes, once reserved for executives with access to trade secrets, are now common in many income levels.
  • Iconic trade secret case: Thomas’ English Muffins recipe ([11:05]–[12:23]).
  • Misuse of non-competes for low-wage workers: Prudential case ([12:37]–[13:47])
    • Example: Security guards barred from competitors within 100 miles; $100,000 penalty for violating.
      • “It was so onerous…if they left the company, they couldn’t work for a competitor within 100 miles.” – Dionne Lomax [13:08]
    • “That's a regulation that's operating to protect competitors, not seed competition.” – Kathy Fazio [08:40]
  • Regulatory landscape varies: FTC’s attempted (but blocked) nationwide ban; California nearly bans non-competes altogether except for top roles.
    • “States are saying, okay, you can have a post employment non compete, but just for a year, or you can have it, but not with respect to lower hourly wage employees.” – Dionne Lomax [15:19]
  • Power imbalance for low-wage workers—lack of leverage in negotiation.

5. Artificial Intelligence and New Antitrust Frontiers

• AI-Driven Collusion and Market Coordination ([16:15]–[23:12])

  • AI shifts how companies might collude—no longer smoke-filled rooms: now algorithms and code.
  • Highlight: RealPage case—software aggregated landlord data to set rents, facilitating anti-competitive coordination.
    • “It was system setups that led to automatic kind of acceptance of the rent suggestions that were made.” – Kathy Fazio [20:38]
  • Need for companies to manage third-party algorithmic vendors to prevent antitrust liability.
    • “At the end of the day the regulators say the onus falls on the company to make sure that their data's not being mishandled from an antitrust perspective.” – Dionne Lomax [20:20]
  • Challenges: Antitrust law currently struggles to address single-actor harm via AI (“single party action”).
    • “These AI tools may actually facilitate outcomes that are worse for consumers…But single party action? I don't think we have answers on that.” – Kathy Fazio [21:49]
    • Discussion on whether new antitrust laws are needed.

• Balancing Innovation and Regulation ([23:12]–[24:10])

  • Regulators have traditionally tried not to overregulate and stifle innovation.
    • “We don't want to overregulate because we don't want to stifle innovation.” – Dionne Lomax [23:22]
  • RealPage and Google cases illustrate the challenge of keeping up with rapid tech changes.

6. Recent High-Profile Antitrust Cases

• Google Search Case ([24:10]–[25:39])
  • Court found Google monopolized search and leveraged power, but remedies complicated by emergence of GenAI and shifts in how search works.
    • “I found it to be incredibly telling that when that decision came out, Google stock went up. It was almost as if the market was saying antitrust law can't keep up.” – Kathy Fazio [25:24]

7. Misconceptions & Real-World Impact

• What People Get Wrong About Antitrust ([25:39]–[27:45])
  • Antitrust is not just about complex legal theory or mergers/monopolies; it's about practical strategy and long-term competitiveness.
  • Students often don’t realize how directly antitrust impacts consumers and workers until real-world examples are discussed (e.g., wage restrictions, higher consumer prices).
    • “It's not just about complex legal theories. It really is very much real world.” – Dionne Lomax [26:39]
    • “Chances are in one of them you did, right? Or you can point out examples where there were price fixing agreements and it changed the market and it raised prices for them.” – Kathy Fazio [27:15]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the original meaning of antitrust:
  “Back in the late 1800s, the word trust really referred to powerful business alliances. ... And so in 1890, Congress passed this Sherman Antitrust Act. And the idea behind that landmark legislation was that it could ensure that markets would remain open, fair and competitive.”
  — Dionne Lomax [01:39–02:41]

• On regulation as a double-edged sword:
  “Regulators are starting to look at regulation itself as possibly being a hindrance to competition.”
  — Dionne Lomax [05:14]

• Case of non-competes gone wrong:
  “It was so onerous that essentially it said that if they left the company, they couldn't work for a competitor within 100 miles. Not only that, if they violated the non compete, they had to pay $100,000 in damages.”
  — Dionne Lomax [13:08]

• AI and algorithmic collusion:
  “Super interesting. Not good, you know, don't do it.”
  — Kathy Fazio, on AI-enabled price fixing [17:07]

• On the challenge AI presents to regulators:
  “These AI tools may actually facilitate outcomes that are worse for consumers, but that are based on huge amounts of training. But single party action? I don't think we have answers on that. I think it's problematic, but I don't think antitrust is there yet.”
  — Kathy Fazio [21:49]

• Biggest misconception about antitrust:
  “It's not just about complex legal theories. It really is very much real world. It's very practical. It's about assessing risk, it's about making room for innovation and really long term competitiveness.”
  — Dionne Lomax [26:39]

Important Timestamps

• [01:39] – Explanation of "trusts" and antitrust origins
• [03:11] – Misconceptions among students
• [04:14] – Antitrust as strategy in business decisions
• [06:40] – Real-world example: Certificate of need laws in Nebraska
• [10:03] – Non-compete agreements and the labor market
• [13:08] – The security guard non-compete example
• [16:28] – The impact of AI on antitrust/algorithmic collusion
• [18:30] – Detailed RealPage rent-setting case
• [24:10] – The Google search antitrust case and GenAI’s impact
• [25:39] – Biggest misconceptions about antitrust

Conclusion

This episode demystifies contemporary antitrust law and practice, emphasizing its relevance to today's business environment and ordinary consumers. As antitrust law navigates the challenges of rapid technological change, shifting market dynamics, and evolving notions of competition, the conversation highlights both the enduring relevance and the urgent need to re-evaluate antitrust for the digital age.

Final Thoughts:
Antitrust isn’t a relic. It’s a living, strategic field shaping—and shaped by—business realities, innovation, and societal values in 2025 and beyond.