It Could Happen Here — "A New Threat to Public Lands"

Podcast: It Could Happen Here, Cool Zone Media | iHeartPodcasts
Date: November 11, 2025
Hosts: Gareth (main), Garrison Davis
Summary by Section, Key Themes, and Quotes with Timestamps

Main Theme / Purpose

This episode explores a recent legislative threat to public lands in the United States, focusing on a bill introduced by Utah Senator Mike Lee. The hosts discuss the potential for this bill to dramatically weaken wilderness protections under the guise of border security and public safety, with wide-ranging implications for the future of public lands, indigenous rights, and environmental conservation. The conversation also delves into broader issues: historical and philosophical perspectives on public land, the intersection with climate and nativist politics, and actionable steps for listeners concerned about these changes.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Public Lands Matter (03:15–04:39)

• Gareth reflects on the UK's lack of public land, linking it to historical land enclosure and dispossession from the land, contrasting this with the US where "anyone can go to public lands and enjoy them."
  • "I grew up in a country that has virtually no fucking public land. I mean, enclosure of the commons..." (03:13)
• U.S. public lands come in various forms (national parks, forests, wilderness), with unique protections—currently under threat.

2. Mike Lee’s New Legislative Push (04:39–10:27)

• Reed on Mike Lee’s public persona: active on social media, often derided for insensitive posts, yet persistently legislative in his attempts to weaken public lands.
• Lee’s prior attempt sought to sell public land under the pretext of affordable housing; the current bill now justifies new roads/trails in the name of “border security.”
  • "Last time, he talked about selling off the public land to make affordable housing... if it did create any housing at all, it was going to be like super rich people's McMansions." (07:23)
• The new bill enables the Department of Homeland Security to “inventory illegal roads and trails" within 100 miles of any border, making them navigable, which would allow for road construction in protected wilderness.
  • "Lee's bill proposes not just to amend the Wilderness Act for within a hundred miles of the border, but to amend it entirely to allow for the construction [of roads]." (13:17)

3. Exposing the Bill’s Rationale (10:27–14:59)

• Gareth and Garrison point out the absurdity: Utah is not a border state, yet Lee’s initiative affects the whole country.
  • "Utah's not a border state." (09:37)
• The bill’s justifications—public safety, addressing migrant-caused wildfires, invasive species—are roundly dismissed by the hosts as red herrings.
  • "He's doing the thing where he says one thing and then his bill does something completely different." (12:37)
  • "It also attempts to inventory damage done to public lands by migrants... How many national parks are trashed by migrants?" (14:59)

4. What “Wilderness” Is and Isn’t (15:00–16:47)

• The show critiques the myth of “untouched” wilderness, highlighting the long history of Indigenous land stewardship predating US federal protections.
  • "I'm not a big fan of the idea of, like, quote, unquote, untouched wilderness. Every bit of what is now the United States is a place where indigenous people have been living and surviving for tens of thousands of years..." (15:00–15:56)
• Gareth quips about the difference between stewardship and extractive use.
  • "There could be touching without fucking, is what you're saying." (16:12)

5. Current Administrative Context & the “Zone of Exception” (21:41–29:27)

• Trump administration’s appointments (Steve Pierce, Doug Burgum) to public lands and the Department of Interior signal an aggressive pro-extraction stance.
• Gareth: The border zone (100-mile “Constitution-free” area) already strips residents of rights, and this new bill would make it worse for public lands.
  • "This could potentially affect every piece of public land, every national park, every national monument in the United States." (24:59)
  • "If you're incapable of understanding that the border as a zone of exception... is a problem, and this selling of the public lands is part of that problem, then it's very hard to have a complete analysis of this." (36:03)

6. Campaign Donations and Political Interests (34:25–35:24)

• Main industry donations to Mike Lee come from real estate developers ($665,000), suggesting a profit motive for public land sell-offs.
  • "He's got a ton of money from real estate. About 665,000. 665,000 is not that much money when you consider the millions of acres of public lands which would be... altered by this." (34:44)
• Pointed joke about how little it takes to tempt politicians to sell out public goods.

7. Why Broader Public Should Care (38:30–41:45)

• Gareth: Even non-recreational users benefit from having public lands exist and preserved for future generations and for possible restoration to Indigenous stewardship.
  • "Public lands is one of those things where... I have conversations with dudes who do not agree with me politically at all... who are also furious about this shit." (41:09)
• Call to action: “You can just... write to your senator, call your representative. You can do these things which are so easy, low risk... in this instance, you can do something really good by doing that.” (41:31)

8. State Policy Example & Land Swap Politics (42:03–45:06)

• Garrison recounts a recent NY constitutional amendment involving a land swap to allow a sports complex to remain, while creating new protected lands—showing that not all legislation is regressive, but often confusingly worded.
  • "Proposition was worded a bit weird, but I think in effect, this just results in there being... more protected land, specifically." (43:06)

9. The Politicization of Public Lands (45:06–46:12)

• Hosts discuss how the GOP’s attitude towards public lands has shifted, now framing environmentalism as “woke” and sidelining conservation legacies.

10. Final Thoughts and Calls for Outdoor Time (46:12–49:43)

• Gareth suggests that being in wild places makes climate change undeniable, and encourages everyone to experience public lands (“Go outside this weekend, go camping... Look at the stars.”)
  • "Go outside tomorrow. Bye. It could happen." (49:40)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On public land vs. UK enclosure:
  “Proto capitalism is what removed folks like me from the land.” — Gareth (03:33)
• On legislation ruses:
  “He’s doing the thing where he says one thing and then his bill does something completely different.” — Gareth (12:37)
• Defining wilderness:
  "A wilderness... is hereby recognized as an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man. Where man himself is a visitor who does not remain." (Howard Zahniser, cited by Gareth at 15:00)
• Philosophical critique:
  “There could be touching without fucking, is what you’re saying.” — Garrison (16:12)
• On bipartisan agreement:
  “I have conversations with dudes who do not agree with me politically at all... who are also furious about this shit.” — Gareth (41:09)
• On immediate action:
  “You can just... write to your senator, call your representative... in this instance, you can do something really good by doing that.” — Gareth (41:31)
• On the politicization of conservation:
  “Environmentalism is now wokeified, right?” — Garrison (45:58)

Important Segments & Timestamps

• [03:15–04:39] — UK vs US land inheritance & enclosure
• [05:06–07:15] — Mike Lee’s legislative history
• [07:15–10:27] — Details of the new bill and “border” justification
• [13:17–16:12] — Bill amends Wilderness Act, rationale breakdown
• [24:59–29:27] — Broader context: administration, Department of Interior, and impacts
• [34:25–35:24] — Mike Lee’s campaign donors (real estate ties)
• [38:30–41:45] — Universal stakes: why all should care, coalition potential, action steps
• [42:03–45:06] — New York land swap case study
• [45:06–46:12] — Shifting GOP stance on public lands
• [49:01–49:43] — Closing thoughts and recommendations to experience public lands

Tone and Style

• Conversational, irreverent, and witty—typical of “It Could Happen Here”
• Hosts mix policy deep-dive with humor, personal stories, and pointed sarcasm
• Strong advocacy for public land protection, critical of both politicians’ motives and media framing
• Frequent appeals to listener action, balanced with banter and relatable anecdotes

Summary Takeaways

The episode is a passionate and engaging analysis of a current legislative effort to weaken public land protections under a thinly veiled border security pretext. The hosts dismantle the logic and intentions behind the bill, place it in a broader historical and political context, and urge listeners to protect these lands—for everyone’s sake and for future generations. The show is as informative as it is irreverent, making the complexities of public land policy relatable and urgent.

Final Call:
“Go outside this weekend, go camping… Look at the stars. Go find a dark sky area if that’s your thing.” (47:38–47:43)
“You should all go… Not at once. There’s not enough space for all of you.” (48:31–48:34)

For further updates on public lands policy, stay tuned to It Could Happen Here, and explore your wild backyard while you still can.