A New Threat to Public Lands

Summary

It Could Happen Here — "A New Threat to Public Lands"

Podcast: It Could Happen Here, Cool Zone Media | iHeartPodcasts
Date: November 11, 2025
Hosts: Gareth (main), Garrison Davis
Summary by Section, Key Themes, and Quotes with Timestamps

---

Main Theme / Purpose

This episode explores a recent legislative threat to public lands in the United States, focusing on a bill introduced by Utah Senator Mike Lee. The hosts discuss the potential for this bill to dramatically weaken wilderness protections under the guise of border security and public safety, with wide-ranging implications for the future of public lands, indigenous rights, and environmental conservation. The conversation also delves into broader issues: historical and philosophical perspectives on public land, the intersection with climate and nativist politics, and actionable steps for listeners concerned about these changes.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Public Lands Matter (03:15–04:39)

• Gareth reflects on the UK's lack of public land, linking it to historical land enclosure and dispossession from the land, contrasting this with the US where "anyone can go to public lands and enjoy them."
  • "I grew up in a country that has virtually no fucking public land. I mean, enclosure of the commons..." (03:13)
• U.S. public lands come in various forms (national parks, forests, wilderness), with unique protections—currently under threat.

2. Mike Lee’s New Legislative Push (04:39–10:27)

• Reed on Mike Lee’s public persona: active on social media, often derided for insensitive posts, yet persistently legislative in his attempts to weaken public lands.
• Lee’s prior attempt sought to sell public land under the pretext of affordable housing; the current bill now justifies new roads/trails in the name of “border security.”
  • "Last time, he talked about selling off the public land to make affordable housing... if it did create any housing at all, it was going to be like super rich people's McMansions." (07:23)
• The new bill enables the Department of Homeland Security to “inventory illegal roads and trails" within 100 miles of any border, making them navigable, which would allow for road construction in protected wilderness.
  • "Lee's bill proposes not just to amend the Wilderness Act for within a hundred miles of the border, but to amend it entirely to allow for the construction [of roads]." (13:17)

3. Exposing the Bill’s Rationale (10:27–14:59)

• Gareth and Garrison point out the absurdity: Utah is not a border state, yet Lee’s initiative affects the whole country.
  • "Utah's not a border state." (09:37)
• The bill’s justifications—public safety, addressing migrant-caused wildfires, invasive species—are roundly dismissed by the hosts as red herrings.
  • "He's doing the thing where he says one thing and then his bill does something completely different." (12:37)
  • "It also attempts to inventory damage done to public lands by migrants... How many national parks are trashed by migrants?" (14:59)

4. What “Wilderness” Is and Isn’t (15:00–16:47)

• The show critiques the myth of “untouched” wilderness, highlighting the long history of Indigenous land stewardship predating US federal protections.
  • "I'm not a big fan of the idea of, like, quote, unquote, untouched wilderness. Every bit of what is now the United States is a place where indigenous people have been living and surviving for tens of thousands of years..." (15:00–15:56)
• Gareth quips about the difference between stewardship and extractive use.
  • "There could be touching without fucking, is what you're saying." (16:12)

5. Current Administrative Context & the “Zone of Exception” (21:41–29:27)

• Trump administration’s appointments (Steve Pierce, Doug Burgum) to public lands and the Department of Interior signal an aggressive pro-extraction stance.
• Gareth: The border zone (100-mile “Constitution-free” area) already strips residents of rights, and this new bill would make it worse for public lands.
  • "This could potentially affect every piece of public land, every national park, every national monument in the United States." (24:59)
  • "If you're incapable of understanding that the border as a zone of exception... is a problem, and this selling of the public lands is part of that problem, then it's very hard to have a complete analysis of this." (36:03)

6. Campaign Donations and Political Interests (34:25–35:24)

• Main industry donations to Mike Lee come from real estate developers ($665,000), suggesting a profit motive for public land sell-offs.
  • "He's got a ton of money from real estate. About 665,000. 665,000 is not that much money when you consider the millions of acres of public lands which would be... altered by this." (34:44)
• Pointed joke about how little it takes to tempt politicians to sell out public goods.

7. Why Broader Public Should Care (38:30–41:45)

• Gareth: Even non-recreational users benefit from having public lands exist and preserved for future generations and for possible restoration to Indigenous stewardship.
  • "Public lands is one of those things where... I have conversations with dudes who do not agree with me politically at all... who are also furious about this shit." (41:09)
• Call to action: “You can just... write to your senator, call your representative. You can do these things which are so easy, low risk... in this instance, you can do something really good by doing that.” (41:31)

8. State Policy Example & Land Swap Politics (42:03–45:06)

• Garrison recounts a recent NY constitutional amendment involving a land swap to allow a sports complex to remain, while creating new protected lands—showing that not all legislation is regressive, but often confusingly worded.
  • "Proposition was worded a bit weird, but I think in effect, this just results in there being... more protected land, specifically." (43:06)

9. The Politicization of Public Lands (45:06–46:12)

• Hosts discuss how the GOP’s attitude towards public lands has shifted, now framing environmentalism as “woke” and sidelining conservation legacies.

10. Final Thoughts and Calls for Outdoor Time (46:12–49:43)

• Gareth suggests that being in wild places makes climate change undeniable, and encourages everyone to experience public lands (“Go outside this weekend, go camping... Look at the stars.”)
  • "Go outside tomorrow. Bye. It could happen." (49:40)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On public land vs. UK enclosure:
  “Proto capitalism is what removed folks like me from the land.” — Gareth (03:33)
• On legislation ruses:
  “He’s doing the thing where he says one thing and then his bill does something completely different.” — Gareth (12:37)
• Defining wilderness:
  "A wilderness... is hereby recognized as an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man. Where man himself is a visitor who does not remain." (Howard Zahniser, cited by Gareth at 15:00)
• Philosophical critique:
  “There could be touching without fucking, is what you’re saying.” — Garrison (16:12)
• On bipartisan agreement:
  “I have conversations with dudes who do not agree with me politically at all... who are also furious about this shit.” — Gareth (41:09)
• On immediate action:
  “You can just... write to your senator, call your representative... in this instance, you can do something really good by doing that.” — Gareth (41:31)
• On the politicization of conservation:
  “Environmentalism is now wokeified, right?” — Garrison (45:58)

---

Important Segments & Timestamps

• [03:15–04:39] — UK vs US land inheritance & enclosure
• [05:06–07:15] — Mike Lee’s legislative history
• [07:15–10:27] — Details of the new bill and “border” justification
• [13:17–16:12] — Bill amends Wilderness Act, rationale breakdown
• [24:59–29:27] — Broader context: administration, Department of Interior, and impacts
• [34:25–35:24] — Mike Lee’s campaign donors (real estate ties)
• [38:30–41:45] — Universal stakes: why all should care, coalition potential, action steps
• [42:03–45:06] — New York land swap case study
• [45:06–46:12] — Shifting GOP stance on public lands
• [49:01–49:43] — Closing thoughts and recommendations to experience public lands

---

Tone and Style

• Conversational, irreverent, and witty—typical of “It Could Happen Here”
• Hosts mix policy deep-dive with humor, personal stories, and pointed sarcasm
• Strong advocacy for public land protection, critical of both politicians’ motives and media framing
• Frequent appeals to listener action, balanced with banter and relatable anecdotes

---

Summary Takeaways

The episode is a passionate and engaging analysis of a current legislative effort to weaken public land protections under a thinly veiled border security pretext. The hosts dismantle the logic and intentions behind the bill, place it in a broader historical and political context, and urge listeners to protect these lands—for everyone’s sake and for future generations. The show is as informative as it is irreverent, making the complexities of public land policy relatable and urgent.

Final Call:
“Go outside this weekend, go camping… Look at the stars. Go find a dark sky area if that’s your thing.” (47:38–47:43)
“You should all go… Not at once. There’s not enough space for all of you.” (48:31–48:34)

---

For further updates on public lands policy, stay tuned to It Could Happen Here, and explore your wild backyard while you still can.

Transcript

[Gareth]

This is an I Heart Podcast.

[Allie]

If you're struggling to lose weight and you're tired of quick fixes that don't last, listen up. I'm Allie, certified health coach and founder of Veracity. I created Metabolism Ignite to help you finally get real lasting results naturally. This isn't another fad. Metabolism Ignite is clinically proven to target the root cause of weight gain. Your metabolism helping people lose an average of nine pounds in just 90 days. It's doctor recommended, award winning and developed with a team of 11 physicians. Our formula boosts your metabolism on a cellular level using a powerful natural blend of ingredients. That means no drugs, no side effects, and it's even safe for nursing moms. Over 25,000 people are already seeing the difference and the five star reviews speak for themselves. Visit veracity self care.com that's V E R A C I T Y and use code I heart for 15% off your first order. This stacks with our subscription savings for up to 45% off today. Go to veracityselfcare.com and start feeling like your best self again.

[Gareth]

I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I.

[Molly Lambert]

Don'T trust much of anything.

[Gareth]

It's the rage bait.

[Garrison Davis]

It feels like it's trying to divide people. We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little.

[Ed Helms]

NBC News brings you clear reporting.

[Gareth]

Let's meet at the Facts.

[Ed Helms]

Let's move forward from there.

[Gareth]

NBC News reporting for America.

[Maggie Freeling]

The murder of an 18 year old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Gareth]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns.

[Maggie Freeling]

Listen to Graves county on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Kyle McLaughlin]

Hey, I'm Kyle McLaughlin. You might know me as that guy from Twin Peaks, Sex and the City or just the Internet stand. I have a new PODC called what Are We Even Doing? Where I embark on a noble quest to understand the brilliant chaos of youth culture. Each week I invite someone fascinating to join me to talk about navigating this high speed rollercoaster we call reality. Join me and my delightful guests every Thursday and let's get weird together in a good way. Listen to what Are We Even doing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Cool Zone Media Announcer]

Call Zone Media.

[Gareth]

Hello everyone and welcome to It's Gonna Happen Here, a podcast where I have just been attacked for my identity as a British person by my colleague, Garrison Davis. Hi, Gareth.

[Garrison Davis]

It's gonna happen again.

[Gareth]

I really. I never.

[Garrison Davis]

This podcast is not a safe space.

[Gareth]

Not for British people, sadly. Many, many such places for us, including Britain, which is a country which is not doing so well right now. Britain is still very safe. I don't want to talk about Britain today. I do, incidentally, I guess, because I grew up in a country that has virtually no fucking public land. I mean, enclosure of the comments, that's.

[Garrison Davis]

Actually kind of topical.

[Gareth]

Yeah, it is. That is a question that actually. So earlier this year in September, I was staying with Gwich', in, people who are indigenous to the northern Alaskan interior, Arctic and subarctic, and one of them was like, hey, how did you guys get so dislocated from your lands? One of my friends who I was talking to, and it was a really interesting question for me, right, because they have lived on that same land for as long as human beings have existed in The Americas, like 25,000 years, something like that. Like, the answer is the enclosure of the commons, right? The answer is like, proto capitalism is what removed folks like me from the land and identifying it in a way that those people identify with the land. But in the United States, we do have a little bit, or quite a lot actually, of public land, right? Various different types of public land, various different land protections that anyone can go to. You don't have to be an American or a citizen. Anyone can go to public lands and enjoy them. Unfortunately, Utah senator, quote, unquote, based, Mike Lee is once again attempting to weaken protections on wilderness, which will render some of the small parts of the USA that have not been fundamentally damaged by capitalism permanently and irrevocably changed. Are you familiar with Mike Lee?

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, he's the senator from Utah.

[Gareth]

The senator from Utah, yep.

[Garrison Davis]

And he's based, as you have said.

[Gareth]

Yes, he's based. Right, That's.

[Garrison Davis]

He's a hashtag poster. He's.

[Gareth]

He's a poster. Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

He operates a Twitter account which some might deem as offensive, and tweets about current. Current events in a very provocative way.

[Gareth]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

Usually in line with some kind of partisan sentiment.

[Gareth]

Yeah, that's pretty fair.

[Garrison Davis]

Specifically, following the assassination of Melissa Hortman and her husband made a series of tweets that were, I guess, kind of insensitive, if not. Actually. If not laying blame at the governor of. Of Minnesota in a kind of ironic, joking way where you have plausible Deniability, but in general handled that situation very grossly. And I think that that's what most people might know his tweets for. But he's very active. He's. He's tweets about many, many a thing.

[Gareth]

Yeah, yeah, he's. If he thinks that he posts it. But yeah, yeah, his. Most people will know him as a guy who made the extremely poor taste posts following those murders.

[Garrison Davis]

Nightmare on Walls Street.

[Gareth]

Yeah, just nothing to be posting when some people have been murdered.

[Garrison Davis]

I think in general, when people are murdered, I think we as humans should. Should post less.

[Gareth]

Yeah, yeah, right. If somebody has died, like, just don't post. You know, it may be nice to say this is terrible, send your condolences or whatever, but realistically, their family aren't looking on twitter.com to see who, who's sending their condolences, but they sure as fuck will find out if you try and make a funny about it. So just don't just resist the urge to post. Another urge that Mike Lee sadly have is I don't like this at all. Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

Not like we're talking about Mike Lee's urges.

[Gareth]

Yeah, okay. It's in the broadcastable space. Mike Lee has the urge to sell off public land. He has tried twice this year. We spoke about this a little bit on Ed. Right. We talked about it in the context of the Big Beautiful Bill or the One Big Beautiful Bill Act.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, he did try that like half a year ago.

[Gareth]

Yes, he did. Well, Garrison, I regret to inform you that Mike Lee is back.

[Garrison Davis]

Somehow Mike Lee has returned.

[Gareth]

Yeah. And this time he has got a new thing. So last time, if you remember, he talked about selling off the public land to make affordable housing. Sure, sure, yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

Not going to look into this any further. And I'm going to.

[Gareth]

That was exactly what he was relying on. That no one gave a shit about the millions of acres that we all get access to and they would just trust him on that one based Mike.

[Garrison Davis]

Lee and his abundance agenda.

[Gareth]

Exactly. It's him and Zofran shaking hands when it comes to affordable housing, but something they care about very. I'm sure, something that Mike Lee has campaigned on for years. He did not stick the landing on that because people read the proposal and they noticed that it was going to do nothing for housing affordability whatsoever. If it did create any housing at all, it was going to be like super rich people's McMansions. You know, this was not going to do anything to move the needle on affordable housing in the US this time he has found a Cause which receives even less scrutiny. Can you guess what it is, Garrison.

[Garrison Davis]

For. For why we need to sell the public lands.

[Gareth]

Yes.

[Garrison Davis]

I'm trying to not just look ahead on your script.

[Gareth]

Yeah. There is a document in front of you which has the answer. So close your eyes. Feel like there's like two or three things in the US where everyone just seems to turn a blind eye to, like.

[Garrison Davis]

Oh, I mean, is. Is it for like. Is it for like, developing land for like, oil data centers?

[Gareth]

Well, that probably is what's happening, but he's. He's smart enough not to say that. Right.

[Garrison Davis]

Super gold Magikarp. As in the, as in the film Eddington. I. I mean, I would guess the data centers, but that, that's. That I, I could be wrong.

[Gareth]

It's border security.

[Garrison Davis]

Oh, great. This.

[Gareth]

Yeah, of course. Right. You could have said anti terrorism and probably got there too. But no, it is, it is securing our southern. Well, all our borders, actually. Southern border, northern border, eastern and western maritime borders. Obviously they're. They're looking to prevent any more people coming in from Canada.

[Garrison Davis]

Utah's not a border state.

[Gareth]

That. That is correct. That's. That is. That is borders.

[Garrison Davis]

Because you.

[Gareth]

Saw you go to search something.

[Garrison Davis]

I literally pulled off a map of the United States. I was like, I don't think Utah's a border. Maybe I'm misremembering, but Utah is not a border state.

[Gareth]

Yeah. Utah is absolutely not a border state, Gary.

[Garrison Davis]

In fact, not a border state. It is above Arizona, which is a border state.

[Gareth]

Yeah. So that is perhaps what's going on here. Mike Lee has found a way to sell off public lands without selling off Utah public lands, or in this case, not really sell off, but destroy and degrade in a way which is very clearly going to lead to commercial exploitation. Right. What Lee proposes. What. Lee's bill has a bunch of co sponsors. I believe the only border state senator co sponsoring it is Ted Cruz.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Gareth]

Big public lands respector. But Lee's bill would allow the Department of Homeland Security to, quote, inventory illegal roads and trails on public land within a hundred miles of the border and then convert them into navigable roads. That is the part that makes no sense. Right. Like when you look at Lee's statements. And I will read one of Lee's statements here. So this is a statement on the Senate Energy Committee webpage where they talk about Energy and Natural Resources Committee. Here's a quote from Mike Lee explaining his bill. Quote, biden's open border chaos is destroying America's crown jewels. I'm going to pause here to note that according to my Watch, we're at November 7, 2025.

[Garrison Davis]

While your watch is wrong.

[Gareth]

Yeah. We're once again asking the most important question of our time. Who is. He used the present tense. It's not even like talking about 2020 and pretending that Trump wasn't president. He's doing it right now.

[Garrison Davis]

FDR's border policies are destroying our natural lands.

[Gareth]

Yeah, we were a year after the election. You've had time to come to terms with this. You can't just keep pointing at Joe Biden. But apparently I guess you can.

[Garrison Davis]

They're gonna keep doing that for three more years until there's a new guy.

[Gareth]

Yeah. So let's go on with Chairman Lee. He's chairman of this Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee. Right. Families who want to enjoy a safe hike or camp out are instead finding trash piles, burned landscapes and trails closed because rangers are stuck cleaning up the fallout. Cartels are exploiting the disorder, using these lands as cover for their operations. This bill gives land managers and border agents tools to restore order and protect these places for the people they were meant to serve. He's doing the thing where he says one thing and then his bill does something completely different.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[Gareth]

What he is saying is, on the face of it, somewhat ridiculous, but what he's claiming he's going to do is protect these lands. Right. What the bill allows them to do is to find roads that are not permitted and turn them into navigable roads.

[Garrison Davis]

So just actually pave roads.

[Gareth]

Yes.

[Garrison Davis]

In the protected wildlife.

[Gareth]

Yeah. Well, crucially, in wilderness areas. Right. So the 1964 Wilderness act does not allow for there to be any mechanized access. Lee's bill proposes not just to amend the Wilderness act for within a hundred miles of the border, but to amend it entirely to allow for the construction.

[Garrison Davis]

Of roads so that they can police the. The public lands better. That's. That's what he's saying.

[Gareth]

Yeah. Right. Well, he's. One of his claims is for search and rescue and that there are already exemptions that allow for mechanized search and rescue access. Right. Like.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[Gareth]

Things like helicopters. Right?

[Garrison Davis]

Helicopters.

[Gareth]

Yeah. If you get. And even, like, you get like motorized gurneys, you can use facade, things like that. Right. Like even ATVs. Right. There's a threat to human life.

[Garrison Davis]

A Toyota Tacoma.

[Gareth]

Yeah. I mean, you'd struggle in most wilderness lands with a Tacoma, but yeah, you could. You could give it a college try, but it's ludicrous. He hasn't even made an effort to join the dots. You know, it Also calls for fire mitigation by clearing fuels and building firebreaks. And includes a provision that would, quote, address invasive or non native species in the wilderness area. Yeah. Like, what are you going to go in there and round up?

[Garrison Davis]

Because everyone's planting and spreading invasive species.

[Gareth]

Yeah. I mean, of course there are invasive species. Right. Like, if you go to parts of where I live, like, you'll see mustard, which is not an indigenous species, because the climate's changing and people move around the world and, like, lots and lots of animals that weren't, like, here 20,000 years ago here now.

[Garrison Davis]

I mean, you can make an argument for managing these areas. I don't think he's coming at this from an environmental conservation standpoint.

[Gareth]

Yeah. I don't know what the non native species thing is about other than, like, just like, nativism for plants. Like, I genuinely can't work it out. If anyone has any ideas, please let me know. It also attempts to inventory damage done to public lands by migrants. Like what? Wildfires are caused by migrants. How many national parks are trashed by migrants?

[Garrison Davis]

Oh, my God.

[Gareth]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

As opposed to the American citizens who treat these areas like dogshit and the park rangers who simply just don't do their jobs because they're too lazy.

[Gareth]

Yeah. And like, literally thousands of people a year who fucking drag their refrigerator or television onto public land and execute it by firing squad. Yeah. Like, maybe make a bill about that. You want to do something nice for public land? I want to give a definition of wilderness from Howard. I think it's Zanisa. I've only ever read his name. But the Wilderness Society, who more or less wrote act, it defines wilderness as, quote, a wilderness. In contrast with those areas where man and his own works dominate the landscape, is hereby recognized as an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man. Where man himself is a visitor who does not remain. I don't actually really like that definition. I like wilderness. But I'm not a big fan of the idea of, like, quote, unquote, untouched wilderness. Right. Like, every bit of what is now the United States is a place where indigenous people have been living and surviving for tens of thousands of years, long before it was United States. It's not untouched. It's just not fucked by extractive capitalism in a way that a lot of our land has been in the last 200 years.

[Garrison Davis]

There could be touching without fucking, is what you're saying.

[Gareth]

Oh, dear. I saw this mischievous look come on their face and I didn't know which direction they were gonna take it. I didn't expect that one.

[Garrison Davis]

Now this is podcasting.

[Gareth]

Yeah. Wow.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[Gareth]

We've just left the newsreel. Let's do an advertising break so we can't come back from that.

[Cool Zone Media Announcer]

Everyone is talking about GLP1. Certified Health Coach Ali Egan has some Mythbusters to share. Myth number one. GLP1 is a long term solution for weight loss. Ali says true GLP1 can potentially be a long term solution for weight loss. If you want to be on a drug that changes your body and natural instincts, GLP1 can fix your metabolism. Ali says false GLP1s fix hunger and this leads to weight loss. But the GLP1s may actually slow down your metabolic rate as your body adjusts to consuming fewer calories. GLP1 leads to a loss of muscle mass. Ali says true GLP1 can lead to a loss of muscle mass due to losing weight so rapidly that your body is pulling from both fat and muscle to make up for the energy gap from consuming so few calories. For a natural GLP1 therapy without the needles, consider trying metabolism ignite. Metabolism Ignite can help boost your natural GLP1 clinically proven to help you lose weight. 9 pounds in 90 days. Visit veracityselfcare.com and receive 15% off your first purchase with promo code iHeart.

[Gareth]

All I know is what I've been told, and that's a half truth is a whole lie.

[Maggie Freeling]

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Gareth]

I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

[Maggie Freeling]

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.

[Gareth]

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

[Maggie Freeling]

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

[Gareth]

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff.

[Garrison Davis]

That y' all said.

[Maggie Freeling]

They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her.

[Gareth]

They made me say that I poured gas on her.

[Maggie Freeling]

From lava for good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

[Gareth]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

[Maggie Freeling]

Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley. Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Danny Trejo]

Welcome fellow seekers of the dark. I'm Danny Trejo. Won't you join me in Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows, an anthology of modern day horror stories inspired by the legends and lore of Latin America. Take a trip from ghastly encounters with evil spirits to bone chilling brushes with supernatural creatures and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Kaltura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Ed Helms]

May 24, 1990. A pipe bomb explodes in the front seat of environmental activist Judy Berry's car.

[Gareth]

I knew it was a bomb the.

[Cool Zone Media Announcer]

Second that it exploded.

[Maggie Freeling]

I felt it rip through me with just a force more powerful and terrible than anything that I could describe.

[Ed Helms]

In season two of Rip Current, we ask who tried to kill Judy Berry and why? She received death threats before the bombing.

[Gareth]

She received more threats after the bombing. The men and women who were hurt had planned to lead a summer of militant protest against logging practices in Northern California. They were climbing trees and they were sabotaging logging equipment in the woods.

[Ed Helms]

The timber industry, I mean, it was the number one industry in the area. But more than it was the culture.

[Gareth]

It was the way of life. I think that this is a deliberate attempt to sabotage our movement.

[Ed Helms]

Episodes of rip current season two are available now listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Gareth]

All right, we've returned. I've de scandalized myself. Lee is currently making his claims, right. That this will somehow make the border safer and make people on public land safer.

[Garrison Davis]

This is such the thinnest justification that you're throwing in like this is so. I severely doubt he sincerely even believes this.

[Gareth]

Yeah, I mean, the Border Patrol have access to all these lands, right? Like I see, I think the Hukumba wilderness is state wilderness. I see Border Patrol in there all the time.

[Garrison Davis]

I can see there's many reasons for why a Republican might be interested in like building road infrastructure in these places. And border security, frankly, is insulting that that he's even trying to use that as a zeitgeist justification.

[Gareth]

Yeah, it's fucking ludicrous. Like the Trump administration is speed running extractive capitalism on on our public lands. Right. Just yesterday when we're recording. Recording. On Friday, Joe Biden is president. As you will remember, Friday 7th November 2025, the Trump administration nominated. Okay, I've outed myself. I'm not a Biden. I'm not a Biden truther. The Trump administration nominated Steve Pierce to lead the Bureau of Land Management. Pierce is a former New Mexico congressman who has supported drilling and fracking on federal land. He's also a serial loser in congressional and state races in New Mexico, I think he lost a Senate and a gubernatorial race. And he has voted to shrink existing public lands. The Trump admin did this before. Right. Like people will probably, if they're engaged in public land advocacy, they will remember the attempts to save the Bears Ears National Monument from oil exploitation, which again, is in Utah. Utah is. For whatever reason, Utah is a hotbed of anti public lands settlement. Amusingly, the previous nominee for the leadership of the BLM had to be removed when emails condemning Trump's response to January 6th came to light. She, I guess, failed the loyalty test. Trump has also put Doug Burgum at the head of the Department of the Interior. Right. Are you familiar with Burgum's shtick? Ger?

[Garrison Davis]

His name sounds incredibly familiar.

[Gareth]

Yeah. He was governor, I believe, in North Dakota.

[Garrison Davis]

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Gareth]

Yeah. Like, he did this pivot on like culture war issues where he had previously been not opposed to abortion, for example, and he just like took a massive swing to the right in order to kind of align with the MAGA position over time. So he's now leading the Department of the Interior. I wrote about this on my little newsletter that I write because when he was nominated, he received a letter of support from the Outdoor Recreation Roundtable, a bunch of outdoor brands. Notably, REI was, was one of the brands that supported his nomination. Bergamot's another big oil and gas guy. Right. He's a guy who has talked about the need for energy exploitation on public land. I have a whole scripted series that I'm working on about specifically drilling in the Arctic Refuge, but this goes far, far beyond that.

[Garrison Davis]

Right.

[Gareth]

This could potentially affect every piece of public land, every national park, every national monument in the United States.

[Garrison Davis]

Drill baby drill.

[Gareth]

Yes, Drill baby drill is pretty much our approach to public land these days. Amusingly, REI was shamed into rescinding their support of Bergam.

[Garrison Davis]

Good for them.

[Gareth]

Yeah, yeah. One of the few instances where people probably posted their way to a change in some kind of. Some kind of policy. I guess even it's only REI policy. I want to talk a little bit about like how we got to this idea of public land and the sort of way that it's sometimes referred to and the way I would prefer we talked about it. I guess the idea we have right now is that there are various tiers of public land, right? This Bureau of Land Management land, which is often the least protected. We have national parks, we have national monuments, we have national forests, and we have wilderness, wilderness being among the most protected. The problem with this approach is that ecosystems don't necessarily respect property lines, right? So let's take, for example, the Gwich Inn in Alaska, right? They have hundreds of thousands of acres of their own, but their traditional way of life and indeed, like, their existence depends on the existence of the porcupine caribou herd. The porcupine caribou herd makes the longest migration of any land mammal on Earth, and it carves on the coastal plain. The coastal plain. The Gwiching way of saying it would be. I have heard this said a lot of times. My sincere apologies if I'm. If I don't get it right. Like, I'm trying my best. Quatz an kwan dai gudlit. It means a sacred place where life begins. It's a very sacred place. Gwich' in don't go there themselves because it's a sacred place, but it is not in their land. It is part of the Arctic Refuge, a place where the Trump administration is selling oil and gas leases, right? So if the caribou can't carve, then it doesn't matter. It still matters that the Gwich would have all this land, but they won't have their caribou, right? Because the herd will be so disrupted by oil and gas drilling where it's carving, that it will then disrupt that whole landscape, right? Without caribou, that landscape would be fundamentally different. So right now, the way we talk about public lands, I think we talk about them, like, in terms of. Of leisure, right? Like, often they're seen as having a value. Like, I guess the classic example would be maybe don't remember this gag? Patagonia ran an advertising campaign called the Places We Play in the Last Trump Administration. That's not it. Right. That is not cool. I think if. If we only see wilderness as a place where, like, folks go outside to do send the gnar on climbing routes and. And fucking shred some mountain bike trails, bro, Then we fundamentally, like, miss the value of it, right?

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[Gareth]

This goes back a long, long time. For instance, if we look in, like, back in 1929 with. Specifically with the protection of the Arctic refuge. We can see this piece that Bob Marshall wrote. Bob Marshall was a forester at the time, but he's kind of important in creating this idea of wilderness or wilderness protections. He talked about the quote unquote emotional values of the frontier being preserved in the wilderness, which again, I think kind of tells us a lot of what's going on here.

[Garrison Davis]

It's a very, very Theodore Roosevelt brained approach to conservation.

[Gareth]

Yeah, right. Like we can go out there and we can all pretend to be like the guys who participated in the genocide of indigenous peoples of North America. I guess. Like he also, he considered using the definition a tract of solitude and savageness. Which again, like, it says a lot about, like it's removing the people from the land. Right. Like, like both literally and in, in our conception of it. And I don't think we should do that. Right. When we talk about wilderness, we need to talk about it hand in hand with the indigenous people of this country and their traditional management practices which allowed this place to be unspoiled until folks started to exploit it in the last couple of hundred years. Let's take an ad break. Hopefully we get something for fracking or some other petrochemical industry. And we'll be right back.

[Cool Zone Media Announcer]

A doubly board certified OB GYN and endocrinologist doctor, a naturopathic and licensed acupuncture doctor and a certified health coach walk into a room. What do they talk about? GLP1, of course, but more specifically the difference between the synthetic version of your body's own hormone that are prescribed by doctors nationwide versus metabolism ignite product which naturally increases your body's GLP1 by 55%. GLP1 slows digestion leading to bloating and discomfort versus metabolism ignite which supports your digestion and gut health. GLP1 side effects can lead to nausea, fatigue and muscle loss, whereas metabolism ignite is powered by plants and there are no side effects. Some long term results of GLP1 links to weight gain after stopping the synthetic drug, which has been proven in multiple studies. In comparison to metabolism ignite, there is no weight regain and this product supports metabolic health. The prognosis these three medical practitioners all agree upon. Visit veracityselfcare.com and receive 15% off your first purchase with promo code iHeartra.

[Gareth]

All I know is what I've been told and that to have truth is a whole lie.

[Maggie Freeling]

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Gareth]

I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

[Maggie Freeling]

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.

[Gareth]

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

[Maggie Freeling]

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

[Gareth]

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff.

[Garrison Davis]

That y' all said.

[Gareth]

They literally made me say that I.

[Maggie Freeling]

Took a match and struck and threw it on her.

[Gareth]

They made me say that I poured gas on her.

[Maggie Freeling]

From Lava For Good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

[Gareth]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

[Maggie Freeling]

Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Molly Lambert]

Jenna World, Jenna Jameson, Vivid Video and the Valley is a new podcast about the of the adult film industry. I'm Molly Lambert, host of Heidi the Heidi Fly Story, and I'll be your tour guide on a wild ride through adult films. We get paid more than the men. We call the shots. In what way is that degrading? That's us taking hold of our Life. In the 1990s, actress Jenna Jameson crossed over into mainstream culture, redefined star stardom, then left it all behind. I'm a powerful woman. I think that's intimidating to a man. With a cast of hundreds of actors and comedians playing key figures, we'll take a look at how adult films became legal in the 70s, hugely profitable in the 80s and 90s, and fell off a financial cliff in the 2000s. Listen to Gentle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Michael Lewis]

Michael Lewis here. My book the Big Short tells the story of the buildup and birth of the US housing market back in 2008. It follows a few unlikely but lucky people who saw the real estate market for the black hole it would become, and eventually made billions of dollars from that perception. It was like feeding the monster, said Eisman. We fed the monster until it blew up. The monster was exploding. Yet on the streets of Manhattan, there was no sign anything important had just happened. Now, 15 years after the Big Short's original release, and a decade after it became an Academy Award winning movie, I've recorded an audiobook edition for the very first time. The big short story. What it means when people start betting against the market and who really pays for an unchecked financial system is as relevant today as it's ever been. Offering invaluable insight into the current economy and also today's politics. Get the big short now at Pushkin fm. Audiobooks or wherever audiobooks are sold.

[Gareth]

We are back and we are talking about Senator Mike Lee again. Garrison, would you like to guess which industries have emerged on the top of Senator Mike Lee's donor list? When I cruise onto open secrets, is.

[Garrison Davis]

It fracking and drilling?

[Gareth]

It's actually real estate. He's got a ton of money from real estate. About 665,000. 665,000 is not that much money when you consider the millions of acres of public lands which would be completely and permanently altered by this. Right.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah. He really should be asking for a lot more money to sell off the public.

[Gareth]

Secure the bag if you're going to do this.

[Garrison Davis]

It's a grossly undervalued.

[Gareth]

Yeah. I always look at campaign donations and I kind of expect them to be in the billions or trillions when like you're looking at just this massive and permanent change in government policy.

[Garrison Davis]

It's that easy, folks.

[Gareth]

Yeah. Which is why we are launching a crowdfunding campaign to buy back all the public land. We're not. No one should own them. We should not be buying them back. That they should be protected. It's kind of remarkable how many of our public lands this would impact right within 100 miles of the border. That gives us two thirds of the United States population. The general definition that DHS has operated with also includes all of the Great Lakes as quote unquote, international waterways. So that that takes in like a good chunk of the Midwest. Right. It would then go 100 miles from the shore of any of the Great Lakes. I've seen this reported on very poorly or not at all. A lot of the people who, who are better at talking about public lands are like the hunting, fishing, like hook and bullet media. They will talk about it more in my experience and like the straight up outdoor media. Right. Which is where I've made my career at least somewhat for the last 15 years. They will also go harder for it. It's generally a more conservative world. But they will go after politicians who sell public lands. But I think if you're incapable of understanding that the border as a zone of exception, the Border as a zone without constitutional rights is a problem, and this selling of the public lands is part of that problem, Then, like, it's very hard to have a complete analysis of this. So, like, I've seen a lot of analysis without any seemingly, where the writers don't understand that United States operates this hundred mile border enforcement zone. Right. And that you, as a US Citizen or as a non citizen, have fewer rights within that enforcement zone. I have seen a lot of analysis which doesn't take into account this weird assessing of migrant damage to public land. Like, in what world is that a useful allocation of government? Like, there are places, right, where, like, if I think about the places where the Biden administration did outdoor detention, that landscape was damaged because people had fires to stay warm. And that fire causes scarring. Right, in our desert landscapes. Yeah, that landscape is damaged. Like, how are you going to. What are you gonna do? There were like a thousand people a day coming through at one point. Are you gonna find them all and charge them all for, like, misdemeanor California fire? It also, there's a tiny provision of this bill that I found that suggests that migrants cannot be housed on federal public land unless they are housed in a detention center.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[Gareth]

Yeah, Great, thanks. That was kind of the case before. Like, you couldn't really just be like, well, I mean, the Biden administration did just say, right, you all camp here and we'll come get you in a week. There wasn't really a legal precedent for that. They just went ahead and did it. I guess what I want to end up with is like, I'm obviously very passionate about this. I guess I'm kind of a public land super user.

[Garrison Davis]

You do be camping?

[Gareth]

Yeah, I do. I am, Yeah. I am a camping guy. If there's one thing that defines me, it's. It's going camping. I try and sleep outside at least once a month. But yeah, most of my happiest memories in life are like, moving under my own power through the mountains. That. That is when I'm happiest. That is how I deal with my. That is what I do with myself after every single one of the traumatic work trips that you. That you. That you seem to love listening to, railing.

[Garrison Davis]

That.

[Gareth]

That is. That is how I cope with the fact that my job is to turn trauma into stuff to go in between Chumba Casino ads. So, yeah, I. I love public lands, but you should too. Even if you don't recreate on public lands, right? Sometimes the public lands are called America's best idea. I don't like that, because it inherent in having public lands is the removal of them from indigenous people. Right? And indigenous people losing their sovereignty over those lands. But as things that the state has done with land goes, protecting it for future generations is one of the good ones, right? Like, there are some truly special places. The vastness of the western United States is why I live here. I cycled across the United States in 2010 and I was just blown away by the scale of the landscapes without significant human damage. That's still something I'm blown away by 15 years later. I spend as much time as I can not just national parks. I think a lot of people, if they've visited public land, were associated with national parks. I'd really encourage you to hit up national forests, wilderness lands, places where there is not a line or a ticket kiosk. You can have a really special wilderness experience there. But even if you don't want to, if that doesn't appeal to you, if it's not something that you feel like physically or otherwise comfortable doing, the fact that it will be there for future generations, the fact that, like, there is potential to return this land to the indigenous people of North America without giant mind scars and roads cut through it right now, is something that we should fight for. And like, public lands is one of those things where, like, I have conversations with dudes who do not agree with me politically at all, like people who definitely voted for Donald Trump, who are also furious about this shit. And if you can help people see that this is part of a bigger problem, like if this could be a place where we can build a coalition, that is a good thing. And it's one of those things that to take action, you can just live out and go on the Internet and write to your senator, call your representative. You can do these things which are so easy, low risk, and like, it's a sort of engagement that like neoliberal bipartisan politics wants you to have. Right. It's not hard, but in this instance, you can do something really good by doing that. So I would encourage you to do that. Mike Lee's bill is currently in committee, I believe the Energy and Natural Resources Committee, tbd whether he gets out of there. But he has tried twice, like since the summer to significantly destroy this incredible thing that we all have access to in the United States. He will continue to try. This is clearly something that he, he has an agenda for. So, like, I would really encourage people to keep an eye out and we will keep reporting on it. Anything else you want to talk about? Public landscape Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

I mean, it's a different approach to dealing with, like, protected wilderness land. Prop 1 to amend the state constitution just passed in New York.

[Gareth]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

But basically what happened, like, a hundred years ago, they were building this Olympic sports complex in violation of the wilderness, like protection, like state like act or part of the constitution.

[Gareth]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

And to deal with that, I'm not sure why it's taken. Taken this long, but to deal with this, they have just days ago voted to amend the constitution to set aside 2,500 acres of mountain land nearby, but not on this complex, and to turn that into protected land to then continue the operation and, like, maintenance of this sports complex. The proposition was worded a bit weird, but I think in effect, this just results in there being in, in the end, more public land or more protected land, specifically.

[Gareth]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

And the conflicts that already exists can then continue to function because the land's already. It was already used.

[Gareth]

Yeah. Right. They sort of built it and then asked permission, like, I guess 100 years later.

[Garrison Davis]

Almost 100 years later.

[Gareth]

Yeah. Like, land swaps happen. And sometimes you'll see people being like, oh, this is public land being sold off. Like, sometimes land swaps are very menial. Right. Like if there's a little parcel of national forest land, or it could be, it's a piece that is next to a school and the school needs a playing field and things like that. Land swaps do happen. And as long as we're not losing acreage to oil and gas or to McMansion building, I think we can be flexible.

[Garrison Davis]

No, I mean, if anything, this will set aside thousands of acres of land to not have that happen to it in the mountains of that run decks.

[Gareth]

Right? Yes.

[Garrison Davis]

And then this complex can now continue to get maintained. I think if this. If this didn't pass, they would, like, restrictions would fall upon the. The capacity of this complex to continue operating.

[Gareth]

That's dumb, because you have a place which is like, it's not going back. Right. Like, once you've built stuff, you should use it.

[Garrison Davis]

The damage has been done now. You should use it here and then protect more land.

[Gareth]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

And luckily this. This thing barely passed. It was. It was pretty close in around 52%. Yes. Most of the votes for no did come from people, I think, living in New York City. I think mostly because of the way the proposition was worded. It was worded in a. In an odd way because it made it sound like you're, like, sacrificing currently protected land that this complex is on. So I think people who are Approaching this from like kind of an ecological standpoint. A conservation standpoint.

[Gareth]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

Like misunderstood. Or had or had some like differing view on like the value of protecting the current land that the complex is on versus establishing thousands of acres of more land to be protected nearby.

[Gareth]

Right, Yeah. I mean, initiatives and propositions are often written in a particularly bizarre way. And it's not like The California Prop 50 was like two lines. This is several paragraphs. I can see how it would have been confusing to people. But yeah, this also happens at a state level all the time. Right. Like states have public lands too. You'll see like a patchwork of state and federal and private land, especially like in some national forests in the West. Right. But that's something that especially in Republican run states now, people should be very aware of in their own states is like the GOP didn't used to be massively anti public lands. This is a new thing for them. Right. They always felt like they needed their, I guess maybe that they needed their like a hunting, fishing, shooting crowd.

[Garrison Davis]

No, but environmentalism is now wokeified, right?

[Gareth]

Yeah, exactly.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah. This is like a post Al Gore thing of. Of now. The conservatives associate a lot of this language with like climate change algorithms and it has this woke element.

[Gareth]

Yeah, it's very strange. Like, it's funny. I'll often when I'm out and about, you know, like exploring in the backcountry, I run into guys who are out there, like they're either hunting or like looking for places to hunt. I think will be like, oh yeah, well, there aren't as many of the turkeys or the deer or the whatever as they used to be. But then it's very hard for people who now can't say climate change is real to find a way of like having permission to say what they want to say because they've seen it with their own eyes. Yeah, better. Also they don't want to say it.

[Garrison Davis]

But no, I mean, I did an episode about this after the RNC because I talked with. Yeah, yeah, this like Republican conservation group about how they're trying to bring back like put the conservative back in conservation or whatever. Jesus.

[Gareth]

Yeah, yeah. I think generally, generally the idea of them conserving anything is pretty much off the table at this point. But yeah, people getting out in public land will. You will understand climate change. You spend long enough going to the same spot and you're going to see what that means. So it has a lot of benefits. Go outside this weekend, go camping. It's great desert season right now. If you're within range of a desert. Go camping in the desert. Look at the stars. Go find a dark sky area if that's your thing. Was it REI who had the like, don't go shopping on Black Friday. Go outside. I don't know. You don't remember this? It's okay. This is just shit. That's.

[Garrison Davis]

I, you know, I am pro gazing at the flickering lights of civilization.

[Gareth]

A garrison. No one wants to see the fucking flickering lights of civilization.

[Allie]

I do.

[Garrison Davis]

I do.

[Gareth]

I don't. I want to see the stars. I camped in Chaco Canyon earlier this year. Banger of a national park. That's my. It's my final tip for you. The. The great house at Chaco Canyon was the largest building constructed in the United States until 1880.

[Garrison Davis]

Really?

[Gareth]

Yeah. Yeah. It is vast. It is one of the least visited parks in the system because you have to go like 17 miles down a dirt road. Sure, sure. But incredible. These are the Ancestral Puebloans, right? Like the people who are the ancestors of the Pueblo tribes today. But it's an amazing place to go check out. You should all go. Not at once. There's not enough space for all of you.

[Garrison Davis]

I mean, I'm just. I'm just scrolling through Mike Lee's Twitter account now.

[Gareth]

Oh, yeah. You got any bangers?

[Garrison Davis]

Not really.

[Gareth]

Oh, really?

[Garrison Davis]

Not really. I mean, he's. He's whining about Zordon and posting a lot about Charlie Kirk and that's mostly it.

[Gareth]

See, he doesn't even talk about this stuff because no one likes it. He got hammered by a bunch of like, very right wing rancher types on Twitter last time he tried to do this.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, makes sense.

[Gareth]

I think he knows better because a lot of people. You can also graze cattle on public land.

[Garrison Davis]

Right?

[Gareth]

There's been a whole standoff about this long time. Listeners will remember the Bundy situation. But yeah, I guess he's also pissed those people off now. I just went to search for the news coverage of this. The only thing we can find is a Washington Examiner. So it's just us and them. God, the video, the autoplay is on. The Washington examiner page is petrifying the.

[Garrison Davis]

True bastions of journalism.

[Gareth]

U.S. and the Washington horseshoe theory come to life. All right, go outside this week. Weekend. Fuck it. Don't go to work. Go outside. Go outside tomorrow. Bye. It could happen.

[Maggie Freeling]

Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts, you can now find sources for it could happen here, listed directly in Episode Descriptions. Thanks for listening.

[Allie]

If you're struggling to lose weight and you're tired of quick fixes that don't last, listen up. I'm Allie, certified health coach and founder of Veracity. I created Metabolism Ignite to help you finally get real, lasting results naturally. This isn't another fad. Metabolism Ignite is clinically proven to target the root cause of weight gain, your metabolism helping people lose an average of nine pounds in just 90 days. It's doctor recommended, award winning and developed with a team of 11 physicians. Our formula boosts your metabolism on a cellular level using a powerful natural blend of ingredients. That means no drugs, no side effects, and it's even safe for nursing moms. Over 25, 000 people are already seeing the difference and the five star reviews speak for themselves. Visit veracityselfcare.com that's V E R A C I T y and use code IHEART for 15 off your first order. This stacks with our subscription savings for up to 45 off today. Go to veracityselfcare.com and start feeling like your best self again.

[Maggie Freeling]

The murder of an 18 year old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Gareth]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns.

[Maggie Freeling]

Listen to Graves county on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Kyle McLaughlin]

Hey, I'm Kyle McLaughlin. You might know me as that guy from Twin Peaks, Sex and the City, or just the Internet stand. I have a new podcast called what Are We Even Doing? Where I embark on a noble quest to understand the brilliant, brilliant chaos of youth culture. Each week I invite someone fascinating to join me to talk about navigating this high speed rollercoaster we call reality. Join me and my delightful guests every Thursday and let's get weird together in a good way. Listen to what Are We Even doing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ed Helms]

Hey, it's Ed Helms, host of snafu, my podcast about history's greatest screw ups. On our new season, we're bringing you a new snafu Every single episode.

[Cool Zone Media Announcer]

32 lost nuclear weapons. You're like, wait, stop.

[Allie]

What?

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, it's going to be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny and a whole lot of fabulous guests. Paul Scheer, Angela and Jenna, Nick Kroll, Jordan Klepper. Listen to season four of SNAFU with Ed Helms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Gareth]

This is an iHeart podcast.