Podcast Summary: It Could Happen Here – "CZM Rewind: Indigenous Peoples Day"

Date: October 13, 2025
Host(s): Mia (Cool Zone Media)
Guest(s): Dalia Kilsbach (Northern Cheyenne, federal Indian & tribal policy expert), Garrison Davis

Overview

This special re-broadcast for Indigenous Peoples Day features an in-depth discussion of the origins and significance of Indigenous Peoples Day, the history and ongoing impacts of U.S. federal Indian policy, and the evolving concept of "Land Back." The episode centers the voice of Dalia Kilsbach, a Northern Cheyenne citizen and expert in federal Indian policy. Together with Mia and Garrison, the conversation traces the timeline of policy regimes, their devastating effects and resistance, and contemporary movements for Indigenous sovereignty and justice.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Indigenous Peoples Day: Meaning & Importance

[03:39–04:47]

• Replacing Columbus Day: Indigenous Peoples Day is now recognized by many cities/states instead of "Columbus Day," which remains a federal holiday.
• Reasoning: To shift the focus from celebrating Columbus—"first of all did not discover America" [03:39, Dalia] and who committed slavery, genocide, and rape—to recognizing the original peoples of the Americas and their contributions.
• Memorable Quote:

  "Rather than celebrating somebody like [Columbus], Indigenous Peoples Day has been implemented in order to recognize the people who are actually here first, and Indigenous peoples across the Americas, their histories, cultures and contributions."
  — Dalia Kilsbach [03:39]

• Mia’s take: "Columbus, real piece of shit. Worst Christopher..." [04:47]

2. Colonialism to Settler Colonialism

[06:03–09:37]

• Key Distinction:
  • Colonial governments extract resources for a faraway "metropole" (e.g., England, Spain).
  • Settler colonialism (U.S.) involves settlers staying, claiming the land as their own, and requiring dispossession (often through genocide) of Indigenous populations.
• Doctrine of Discovery: European legal framework to justify seizure of Indigenous lands because "Indigenous peoples...were deemed unable to govern themselves" [09:50, Dalia].
• Structural Racism: Legal title transferred from Indigenous peoples to European nations, then to the U.S.; Indigenous nations seen as "occupants," not owners.

3. Timeline of Federal Indian Policy

a) Colonial & Confederation Periods (1492–1789)

[06:03–12:49]

• Shift from colonial to settler colonial control.

b) Treaty Era (1789–1835)

[12:49–15:04]

• Three Key Constitutional Clauses: Treaty Making, Commerce, Property.
• U.S. government exclusively regulates "Indian affairs," absorbing tribes into "domestic interest," eroding prior sovereignty.

c) Removal Era (1835–1861): Indian Removal Act & The Trail of Tears

[21:45–27:26]

• Land Theft Legalized: The law functioned as "retroactive justification for just fucking everything" [16:34, Mia].
• Supreme Court vs. President: Marshall's Supreme Court rulings theoretically protected tribal sovereignty, but Jackson "just does it anyways" [24:55, Mia]; violence overruled legal protections.
• Genocide as Policy: "This state actually is...a genocide machine" [27:43, Mia].

d) Reservation & Boarding School Era (1861–1887)

[28:42–33:02]

• Reservations: Removal to often-inhospitable lands, frequent warfare, e.g., Little Bighorn.
• Assimilation Attempts: Forced use of boarding schools to "kill the Indian, save the man," banning spiritual practices, imposing Christianization.

e) Allotment & Assimilation (1871–1934)

[38:00–41:33]

• Dawes Act: Tribes’ communal lands divided among individuals; "excess" land sold off to settlers.
• Failed 'Civilizing' Project: Yeoman farmer model imposed; economic and agricultural failure.
• Canada Parallel: Similar processes under Canadian Indian Act.

f) Indian Reorganization Act & Termination (1934–1962)

[41:53–45:10]

• Reversal, then rapid swing to terminating recognition and dissolving government-to-government relationships; tribes like the Menominee dissolved.
• Characterization: "Federal Indian policy as a pendulum:... termination... and self-determination. But both... held within the context of goals of assimilation." [45:10, Dalia]

g) Self-Determination Era (1962–present)

[45:39–49:49]

• Restoration of some tribal governments, tribal councils established, Nixon condemns termination, incremental restoration of sovereignty.
• Persistent Problems: Rights to land and treaty violations remain ongoing issues.
• Dalia: "All treaties in the history of the United States with Indian tribes have been broken in some way..." [49:09]

4. Land Back Movement: History, Meaning, and Tensions

[49:49–56:32]

• What is 'Land Back'?
  • Protean slogan; varies by person and context.
  • Dalia:

    "When we say land back, for me, how I interpret it... is recognition of our tribal sovereignty, of our right to this land that has not been respected." [52:25]

• Recent Activism:
  • NoDAPL (Dakota Access Pipeline), Stop Line 3 showcased wide alliance, treaty violations.
  • Social media increased solidarity.
• Misconceptions: Reactionary critics fret over mass removals of settlers; in practice, most calls focus on tribal self-determination, reparation, and environmental justice.
• Land, Property, and Decolonization:
  • "Land as we conceive it to be property... grew in conversation with Euro American conceptions of property." [56:09, Dalia]
  • True decolonization may involve moving beyond colonial property models.
• Key Quote:

  "How do we expect for the conqueror to be held accountable for all of these atrocities... by searching for justice within the courts of the conqueror?"
  — Dalia Kilsbach [54:52]

5. Contemporary Engagement & Resources

[57:16–61:18]

• Education:
  • Read Settler Colonialism by Lorenzo Veracini.
  • Follow the National Congress of American Indians and Illuminatives for advocacy and lived experience content.
• Action:
  • Learn about the tribes whose land you live on.
  • Support tribal sovereignty and rights at state/local and federal levels: e.g., fishing/hunting rights, environmental justice, Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women activism, boarding school reparations.
  • Support organizations: National Boarding School Healing Coalition, tribal partnerships, and relevant nonprofit organizations.
• Quote:

  "A really good way to make some more tangible change, to feel like you're doing something to support tribal sovereignty while you're also educating yourself and making sure that their voices are at the forefront."
  — Dalia Kilsbach [59:29]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Columbus: "Worst Christopher... Even people in that era who had committed their own genocides were, like, 'What on earth?'" [04:47, Mia]
• On the law: “The law is sort of just following the violence and it just becomes a sort of retroactive justification for just fucking everything.” [16:34, Mia]
• On sovereignty: "It's a self-justifying sort of sovereignty." [16:43, Dalia]
• On US genocidal capability: “This is what sovereignty is... the ability to break your own rules... the genocide machine has to keep moving.” [27:43, Mia]
• On Resistance: "In every instance of federal Indian policy, you have resistance... that's why the federal government has not been able to eradicate us, much to their dismay." [45:39, Dalia]
• On Treaties: “All treaties in the history of the United States with Indian tribes have been broken in some way, shape or form. But still American Indians have to live on their reservations instead of having their, their land back.” [49:09, Dalia]
• On 'Land Back': “Land back has many, like a plethora of meanings in that sense.” [55:48, Dalia]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:39] – Dalia explains why Indigenous Peoples Day
• [06:03] – Difference between colonial and settler colonial states
• [09:50] – Doctrine of Discovery explained
• [12:49] – U.S. treaty regime
• [21:45] – Indian Removal Act and legal contradictions
• [28:42] – Reservation wars, boarding schools, and assimilation
• [38:00] – The Dawes Act (allotment era)
• [41:53] – End of allotment, rapid-fire policy phases
• [45:39] – Ongoing resistance and the self-determination era
• [49:49] – The meaning and complexities of "Land Back"
• [57:16] – Resources and ways listeners can support Indigenous rights

Tone and Style

• Candid and direct: No euphemisms about genocide, land theft, or law as violence.
• Knowledgeable and educational: Excellent primers on complex history (Dalia delivers crash course style overview).
• Wry humor: Mia’s asides and ascorbic description of Columbus and U.S. policy (“retroactive justification for just fucking everything”).
• Activist energy: Repeated focus on resistance, activism, land back, and the need for genuine solidarity.

Final Resources & Calls to Action

• Books: Settler Colonialism by Lorenzo Veracini
• Organizations: National Congress of American Indians, Illuminatives, National Boarding School Healing Coalition
• Actions: Understand your own local history, support tribal issues and activism, advocate for state/federal respect of treaties and sovereignty

This summary distills a thoughtful, urgent, and thorough conversation on the contested history and present of Indigenous justice in the United States, vividly conveyed in the voices of those with lived and studied experience.