Does Tylenol Give Your Baby Autism?

Summary

It Could Happen Here – “Does Tylenol Give Your Baby Autism?”

Date: October 1, 2025
Hosts: James, Dr. Kaveh Hoda, Dr. Tyler Black
Podcast Network: Cool Zone Media / iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This episode of It Could Happen Here investigates the recent public and political scrutiny on acetaminophen (known as Tylenol in the US) and its alleged link to autism, prompted by a major governmental announcement and ongoing anxieties about rising autism rates. Host James is joined by two experts: Dr. Kaveh Hoda, a medical doctor and host of House of Pod, and Dr. Tyler Black, a Canadian psychiatrist specializing in child and adolescent mental health. Together, they critically analyze the scientific evidence, discuss how misinformation and political motivations shape public health discourse, and reflect on the wider harm to autistic people and pregnant people.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Are We Asking if Tylenol Causes Autism?

• The “Tylenol causes autism” theory has gained renewed attention due to policies and campaign promises by high-profile politicians, including RFK Jr. after becoming HHS Secretary.
• As Tyler Black explains, much of this is fueled by a “quest to find some environmental cause” for autism rooted in dubious interpretations of scientific data.
• Tylenol is often referenced by brand name in American discourse, though the issue concerns acetaminophen more broadly.

Notable Quote

"RFK wields science...having a conclusion and then finding the science to support it."
— Tyler Black [04:24]

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2. Summarizing the State of the Science

• Drug safety in pregnancy is complex due to ethical limits on experimental trials. Most evidence on medications like acetaminophen comes after decades of real-world use (pharmacovigilance).
• The strongest study to date (a 2024 Swedish cohort study, involving 2.5 million people and sibling-pair analysis) found no evidence for a causal link between prenatal acetaminophen use and autism. Smaller studies had found minor correlations, but these appear to be due to confounding factors.
• Narrative reviews (such as Dr. Baccarelli’s 2025 publication) tend to cherry-pick data and inflate weaker studies over high-quality data.

Timestamps & Quotes

• [06:57] Tyler Black: “In that group, they had 16,000 sibling pairs both exposed to and not exposed to acetaminophen...they found no relationship.”
• [08:00] Kaveh Hoda: “Once you account for some of these really tough variables...most of these other studies are not causal but correlative relationships.”
• [10:00] Tyler Black: "In the real world, that larger study would dwarf the significance of the other ones...you can see how you could shape a narrative, which is what a narrative review is."

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3. The Real Reasons Autism Diagnoses are Rising

• Most of the increase in autism rates is due to expanding diagnostic criteria, broader awareness, and changes in education/health systems.
• Some genuine risk factors exist: advanced paternal age and increased survival of premature or at-risk infants.
• The so-called “autism epidemic” is more a matter of classification than a real explosion in prevalence.

Notable Explanation

[12:16] Tyler Black: “When RFK was a kid...the kids now labeled with autism were called spazzes and goofs...now, if you apply systematic diagnostic criteria to adults, you find the same rates as in kids.”

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4. Gender & Social Aspects of Autism Diagnosis

• Diagnostic stereotypes mean boys are more likely to be labeled as autistic compared to girls, who may have subtler symptoms or be mislabeled as anxious or shy.
• The pathologization and stigmatization of autism is discussed, with a strong argument against framing autism as an epidemic or a tragedy.

Quote

[17:11] Tyler Black: “Autistic people are perfectly content to be autistic...this whole idea of autism being this travesty is doing a disservice.”

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5. Political Motivations and Real Dangers

• The conversation critiques the political push—particularly from Trump and RFK Jr.—to restrict Tylenol in pregnancy, revealing how precautionary principles are misapplied (i.e. “what's the harm in not taking it?” ignores the real dangers of untreated fever/pain).
• Both hosts emphasize this advice may directly harm pregnant people and lead to preventable deaths.

Notable Quotes

[18:33] Kaveh Hoda: "We're always trying to find ways to blame mothers...the only medicine we've told them they can use during pregnancy."
[21:20] Tyler Black: "I'm a champion of all Tylenol should be like the UK in individually wrapped pieces...there is evidence that that reduces the rate of intentional overdose."
[32:15] Tyler Black: “[Not taking Tylenol] will kill people...fevers can kill you. They just can.”

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6. The Weaponization of Scientific Nuance

• The anti-vaccine movement and the current debate feign nuance, using small statistical uncertainties to justify gross distortions and bad policy.
• Tylenol, while imperfect and not risk-free, does not account for autism increases and remains an appropriate treatment when used judiciously in pregnancy.

Quote

[27:54] Tyler Black: "The one thing they've tried to do is inhabit nuance and then disingenuously use it."

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7. Advice for Pregnant People & Information Sources

• Medications in pregnancy are always a risk-benefit consideration; most are neither “100% safe” nor categorically dangerous.
• Always consult a doctor; if not possible, use reliable health agencies (like Mayo Clinic, HealthLink BC) and remain skeptical of anyone selling cures, detoxes, or "ancient remedies" on social media.
• Watch for financial conflicts in sources advocating for or against specific medications.

Quote

[41:36] Kaveh Hoda: "The preponderance of evidence and scientific belief and medical belief in this one goes against what they're saying...If you have a question, talk it over with your doctor."
[44:10] Kaveh Hoda: "Be wary of anyone that ... uses the words detox. Be wary about ancient remedies. Be wary about anyone that is selling something...We don't sell shit."

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8. Broader Cultural and Political Implications

• There’s wide concern that political misinformation, especially about medical issues, is eroding public trust and directly harming vulnerable communities.
• The episode draws parallels to anti-trans policy and generally anti-scientific currents in politics.

Quotes

[45:17] Tyler Black: "Misinformation has won the day and literally misinformers are the political leaders now. And misinformation has just eroded science to the point where I don't know if America’s ever going to get it back."

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9. Debunking “I Didn’t Know Any Autistic People” Claims

• The first ever diagnosed autistic person, Donald Triplett (diagnosed 1943), lived to be 89; there have always been older autistic individuals, but lack of recognition or diagnosis kept them invisible.

Quote

[46:33] Tyler Black: "RFK ... and a whole bunch of people have said, ‘I didn't know anybody autistic when I was a kid’...Donald Triplett...died last year...Autistic people are old too. It was just not diagnosed."

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Memorable Moments & Lighter Asides

• Kaveh joking about having “two Y chromosomes” and thus being “hairy in the ears” [15:46]
• Everyone riffing on the absurdity of medical advice from politicians (“Trump gave this terrible advice…”) [29:03, 31:28]
• The group’s weariness at finding themselves defending Tylenol and pharma companies against “the medical freedom crowd” [21:35]
• Running joke about “the hospital” vs “hospital” [32:57]

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Conclusion & Takeaways

• There is no credible evidence that Tylenol (acetaminophen) causes autism when confounding factors are properly controlled.
• Banning or demonizing Tylenol in pregnancy could leave pregnant people at risk for far greater harm from untreated fever or pain—an approach that’s scientifically unfounded and socially damaging.
• Increased autism diagnoses are a product of better awareness and shifting definitions, not an environmental epidemic.
• The current climate of science misinformation, especially when entangled with politics, is creating tangible dangers for marginalized and vulnerable groups.

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Where to Find the Guests

• Dr. Kaveh Hoda: Podcast: House of Pod, Blue Sky (@kavehmd), rarely on Twitter and Instagram
• Dr. Tyler Black: Twitter: @tylerblack32, appears on various podcasts

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References to Noteworthy Segments (Timestamps)

• Introduction to Tylenol Question: 04:04–06:58
• Discussion of Swedish Study: 06:57–09:30
• Diagnosing Autism Rates: 11:45–14:26
• Gender and Diagnostic Trends: 15:22–17:50
• Political Implications and Risks: 18:33–21:35, 32:15–34:44
• Debunking Myths About Old Autistic People: 46:28–47:36
• Advice on Information Sources: 43:03–44:10

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Notable Final Thought:

“If you have a question, talk it over with your doctor...this is well out of [Trump’s] range of understanding.”
— Dr. Kaveh Hoda [41:36]

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This summary provides a comprehensive overview and practical guide to the evidence, arguments, and concerns voiced on the episode—valuable both for those catching up and those wanting a deeper understanding.

Transcript

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[Tyler Black]

When you were described to me as.

[Dr. Leslie]

A forensic psychologist, I was like, snooze.

[Tyler Black]

We ended up talking for hours and I was like, this girl is my best friend.

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[James]

It gives me this feeling of like butterflies.

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[Tyler Black]

Call Zone Media.

[James]

Hello and welcome to the podcast. It's me, James today and I'm very lucky to be joined by a couple of people who I am about to Introduce. To discuss the very important topic of. Does Tylenol give your baby autism? I think we probably already know the answer, but nonetheless, we have half an hour to talk about it. So you will hear Dr. Kaveh Hoda laughing. That's.

[Kaveh Hoda]

That's me.

[James]

That's Kaveh. Yep. Many of you will know him, but he's a medical doctor and host of the House of Pod podcast. And I'm also joined by Tyler Black, who's a psychologist in British Columbia. Welcome, Tyler.

[Tyler Black]

Psychiatrist.

[James]

Psychiatrist. Fucked it up.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Them fighting words, James. Them's fighting words.

[James]

Yeah. No, I know. Yeah. This is. Yeah. It's like when people call me a sociologist. I understand. Or even worse, an anthropologist.

[Tyler Black]

It's a pleasure to be here and. And no worries.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Tyler is Canadian, so to see him correct somebody on something makes me happy.

[Tyler Black]

No, I'm very sorry.

[James]

Yeah. But that's who I get him on.

[Kaveh Hoda]

He's very sorry. He's very sorry about that. I love Tyler very much. He comes on my show not infrequently. And one really pleasant thing that's happened, one little bright spot in the last, I don't know, five years of terror that have been happening medically is seeing Tyler gradually, over time, become grumpier and more willing to fight.

[James]

Yeah.

[Kaveh Hoda]

That's the only bright spot I've had. Thank you, Tyler, for that.

[Tyler Black]

Yeah. You're bad.

[James]

I imagine that's a side effect of your consumption of acetaminophen. Yeah.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Gotta cut back, bro. Gotta cut back.

[James]

Yeah. All right. For those not familiar, why are we talking about Tylenol? Might be the name you're familiar if you. Especially if you're American, people like to use brand names a little more. I still find that very confusing, and I've lived here for the better part of two decades. But why are we talking about Tylenol?

[Kaveh Hoda]

Tyler, do you want to introduce this concept?

[Tyler Black]

Sure. So, yeah, Tylenol goes by paracetamol in UK and other. Other places in the world. It's acetaminophen here. So it really is not talking about Tylenol, though. The shorthand that the political people who've been talking about it have specifically called out the brand Tylenol, which is bizarre. But this stems from both a mission that RFK Jr, when he took over as the HHS, sort of had, which was to find the cause of autism, which is, you know, his political quest to find some environmental cause. I mean, he started as an environmental lawyer. I don't think he's doing this disingenuously. I Think he truly believes there is an environmental cause to autism. But of course, RFK wields science, probably driven by the brainworm. And so he has this way of having a conclusion and then finding the science to support it.

[Matt Jones]

And.

[Tyler Black]

And it was very clear that he was going to point towards vaccine, vaccine schedule. And at some point this is definitely coming. Yeah, I think this might be a roundabout way to do it through fevers and Tylenol, but the Tylenol link is something that has been a question mark. So a really quick aside will be that when drugs are regulated, the drug companies have very little natural interest to study it in pregnant people. It only brings them risk. There is no reason to do it. You are required to submit what studies you have on animal toxicity in utero, these types of things, but not really that much for humans. And so the drug companies usually put their hands up and go talk to your doctor about using this. And then the rest of us in medicine have to take that information that's been generated about this medication and try and interpret it on pregnant people. And it creates this system where we create the evidence over the next 20 years in what we call pharmacovigilance or post marketing studies where we basically, has there been a problem? Did we find any birth defects? You know, and we kind of do it backwards. It kind of makes sense because you couldn't really do an RCT on pregnant women to start with if you didn't know any reason for the drug. So it's one of those sort of loopholes. And so this natural conversation has resulted in science that points in a number of directions. Does acetaminophen cause autism? Can't be answered by the current science because it's all cohort data. It's looking backwards, it's looking at populations, it's confounded. However, the best study was published in 2024, which makes the timing of this announcement really awkward. There was 2.5 million people. It was a. I believe it's a Danish study. Swedish, Swedish study.

[James]

Okay.

[Tyler Black]

And in that study there was a small link found, but because they had 2.5 million people, they could check that link by looking at sibling pairs within that 2.5 million. So in that group, they had 16,000 sibling pairs both exposed to and not exposed to acetaminophen. And lo and behold, they found that there was no relationship there. So this really is one of the more definitive correlational studies that says pretty much any effect we're seeing is probably confounded. It probably isn't due to the acetaminophen though there are some animal studies that might hint at it. It appears to be minor. And Kaveh, I see you're about to say something.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Yeah, first of all, that's exactly right. I think that there are a lot of things that Maha and RFK Jr talk about that are just insane and you can dismiss out of hand. This is a topic that is not complete rubbish. It is something that has a little bit of nuance and we can talk about, as Tyler was just mentioning, there is some evidence that there might be a small relationship. But the real key is determining if it's a causal relationship or just correlative. Are they just related for some reason or another, or are they caused by each other? And that study that he talked about, that Swedish study, looked at about 180,000 or infants that had parents that were exposed to acetaminophen. What's really elegant about that is that it looked at the siblings. That's why it's such an important study. And that's. Would I say it closes the door on the matter? No, I agree with Tyler. I think the preponderance of evidence now is that there is no connection between Tylenol and autism. But I don't know if this study totally closes the door. It is really well done, though. So they showed that if you look at siblings, if you look at a family, there's no connection. You take out some of the variables, you take out some of the confounders there that can obfuscate or confuse an issue. You take those out of the picture and you see that there's no relationship between Tylenol and acetaminophen. What's interesting in that same study, that Swedish study, if they then put those back in, if they didn't account for the siblings, then, yeah, it showed that there is a little bit of evidence, a small, basically relationship between, you know, acetaminophen and developing autism. But once you start accounting for some of these, these really tough to account for variables, then you start to see that that falls apart. And that implies that most of these other studies are not causal but correlative relationships.

[Tyler Black]

The sort of 2025 update is. And I think this might have. I think as that we learn more about it, this might have been something that was either solicited or developed in tandem with RFK and his goals. But there was a publication in 2025 by, I think, the Harvard Dean of Medicine.

[James]

Yeah.

[Tyler Black]

Who has been a plaintiff's witness for attorneys battling Tylenol in developing autism. So There is a bit of a financial conflict of interest there.

[James]

Right, yeah.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Baccarelli.

[Tyler Black]

Yeah. Dr. Baccarelli who published a study called a navigation review. And it's basically a sciencey version of Let me tell a story and here's the evidence that supports it. Basically what they did is they took the number of studies, they counted the number that pointed towards Tylenol as a factor and they counted against it and they found about 20 something in total. The majority of them found a link to Tylenol and autism and then a minority found no link. But of course that's not really how we do science in 2025. If we had two studies and you can actually look at his, his studies and some of These studies are 200 people, 300 people, 500 people. Yeah. And then you have this other study that's 2.5 million people. You know, in, in the real world, that larger study would dwarf the significance of the other ones. But in the way that this navigation study was set up, they're all kind of equal. In fact, he treats the non confounded sample that Kave was mentioning as its own study and then he treats the controlled sample with siblings as its own study. So the same study from Sweden was cited twice, one for and one against. You can see how you could shape a narrative, which is what a narrative review is. It's when you shape a narrative, it's not a very sciency way to do things. We like to do systematic reviews and this did provide a bit of COVID because now everyone in HHS can point towards this study by the Harvard Dean of Medicine, published in BMC Environmental Studies, peer reviewed, showing that a navigational study shows that there could be a link. But it really, if you read the study, any scientist reading it would be like, yeah, there could be a link. But the largest study in that group suggests there is no link.

[James]

Right. Yeah. Someone's playing games with evidence when they've already decided what their conclusion would be. Let's talk about this fascination with autism that exists in the maha. Right. Make America healthy again. For those who are not familiar what's happening here, people are probably diagnosed with autism at a higher rate now than they were when these people were young. Right. That is not, however. Well, I will let you guys explain that. Explain how that doesn't mean that we're giving children autism, if that is my understanding is correct.

[Tyler Black]

Sure. I'll jump in first. So there's a number of ways to test whether or not the rate is truly increasing. So the first thing to say is, over the World. We've seen a gradual increase in the global population that has autism from about 0.8% of the population to about 2% of the population. That's what's happened over the past 25 years of studies across the world. Now, that's not exactly the exponential rise that you often hear about in the United States. The United States has a lot of unique features. So you have a ton of people working in this area. You have a ton of researchers. Lots of people have access to healthcare. There's many reasons why global numbers might not look like American numbers. But the general idea behind this increased rate of autism, most of that increase is due to our change in diagnostics and the way that we label things. So when RFK was a kid, there were kids that were excluded from school because they were literally called. They. They were not allowed to come to school. They were known as spazzes and goofs, and they were the ones that, you know, were made fun of, and they struggled throughout life. Now, were they called autistic? No. Did they have the same symptoms that the kids today that are being diagnosed with autism have? Probably. And the way that we can control for that, there's some really elegant studies. One is we take diagnostic criteria from children, and then we ask adults currently living today to go through a structured interview looking for those things. And guess what? We find the same rate in adults that we see in kids. This idea that it's an exponential rate. Now, I think the rate is also increasing, but I think it's increasing gradually. And this is because the extreme of ages are having kids more often, especially at the older end. And we do know that older age is related to autism, especially older age of the father. And we also know that premature babies and babies with significant developmental disabilities are surviving their postnatal period as soon as they're born. Instead of instantly dying or dying during childbirth or not being able to be resuscitated, they're kept alive and survive. And this is good. But this does mean that there's more neurodiversity in the world, because, of course, these children have encountered significant harm.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Yeah, I agree with that. I do think that the diagnostic criteria has expanded, and that's part of why we see more. But, yeah, I think the two things we know that are related are some genetic predisposition, if there's people in the family that have it, and the older age of patients. And as we get older, I'm an older father myself, you know, you see more with older patients, and that's more common now. Than it's ever been before. So these are all a part of it. And once you take a look, for example, going back to that Swedish study in 2024 that was so good, that sibling study looks at the genetics of it, and once you account for the genetics of it, you start to be able to say, okay, maybe this other stuff, like Tylenol isn't important.

[James]

Yeah, yeah. Is there a gender element to this as well? Yeah, I may have misremembered here, but my understanding is that women, femme people tended to be diagnosed at a lower rate until relatively recently.

[Tyler Black]

Yeah. So not only is there a gender component, but I do think that the biological sex of the child has an impact on the genetic expression because it seems like the transmission from to males is higher than the transmission to females. So there might be something buffering about that extra X chromosome. You know, we have this shrimpy little Y chromosome that makes us all degenerates.

[Kaveh Hoda]

You only have one Y chromosome, you cuck.

[Tyler Black]

Sorry, are you a super male?

[Kaveh Hoda]

I have two Y's.

[James]

Why? Why?

[Kaveh Hoda]

You know, hairy my ears are.

[Tyler Black]

So there are a number of disorders that the X the extra X chromosome is protective for. And I, I, I do wonder if that's the case for autism. But what's also true is we have stereotypes about what girls should be and what boys should be, and that leads to boys being diagnosed with autism more frequently than girls. So the girl that's quiet and awkward and anxious is labeled as an anxious kid a lot more quickly than when you see that in a boy, the parents think autism or the clinician thinks autism. So there could be some social reasons for that discrepancy as well. And then the last thing I really wanted to say is that the really tragic thing about all of this is profound autism, which autism is a spectrum. Profound autism is extremely disabling for people around the person. Generally, autistic people enjoy their lives, especially if the world is set up in a way so that they can live safely and without impediment. Autistic people are perfectly content to be autistic. And this whole idea of autism being this travesty, this epidemic, this blight on society, is really doing a disservice to the wide variety of people that we're now calling autistic. Because when our criteria expanded, we created a whole space of autistic people who, who are very what we would call non profound autism. These are people that have difficulties in social communication or do the same thing over and over despite, you know, it being at an abnormal level. But it's what they need to soothe themselves, you know, that will be called autism. Now, now, would a parent want a child who's in a home constantly rocking back and forth and just soothing themselves by licking their fingers or whatever, you know, some very severe autistic behavior? No, that probably wouldn't be the parent's ideal. But I've worked with so much autism in my life. I'm a child and adolescent psychiatrist. I've seen so many autistic kids. They can live happy, happy, happy lives. Autistic. So I'm not a fan of the blight sort of messaging of it either.

[James]

Yeah, I'm really glad you mentioned that because that's one of the worst things about, in a sense, one of the most damaging things about this. People who are living happy, healthy and fulfilled lives are being, like, slandered or pathologized, derided by the government of this country, and that's fucked.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Yeah.

[James]

And I'm sure will have an impact on those people because it would have an impact on anyone to see this condition that, as you said. Right. Like, may be difficult for people who are not familiar with it to navigate, but it doesn't mean that you can't have a fulfilling and happy and very pleasant life suddenly suggested there's some kind of massively disabling and terrible travesty and that the person who gave birth to you is to blame for this. Right, right.

[Kaveh Hoda]

That's what really bothers me is, like, we're always trying to find ways to blame mothers. This is. Yeah, this is. This is a mantle. And I apologize for that. Listener. Please don't me for that. Yeah, but part of what this is is, like, control over women. And, you know, while that Swedish study I mentioned may not completely close the issue, I think it's pretty clear that the evidence pretty strong against there being a connection between Tylenol and to make a wholesale governmental recommendation that as a country for us to move this way, to make such strong claims, to have a president come out and just say, grit your teeth and bear it to women in regards to the one medicine that we've told them they can use during a pregnancy is insane to me. So there's the autism issue and the insult essentially to that community, but also to women in general. It's insane to me that this is happening right now. Again, there is a bit of nuance to this issue. As I mentioned, it's not like, totally insane to ask about and question it, but to make a wholesale directional change in how we recommend imaging patients that are Pregnant is nuts. Is just nuts.

[Tyler Black]

Yeah. And to piggyback on that, you know, like, it's really normal. It was normal advice in 2024 for us to say, yeah, you can use Tylenol, but try to use it sparingly. We're not really sure. Use it when you need it, though, because we do know that pain and fever and these types of things are bad for the baby. Right. You know, so this, this kind of way in which it's now been massaged. So I saw a letter from Dr. Marty Macary, who's another grifter, who's now in the. In the American political system there, has written a letter basically saying at the bottom, use it judiciously. And it is the only one that's approved. So. But that's exactly where we were before. There was no need for a pest conference. Every doctor was saying, use Tylenol sparingly, but you can use it.

[Kaveh Hoda]

James, can I tell you what's driving me crazy about this?

[James]

Yeah, please.

[Kaveh Hoda]

This administration has done something. Trump in general has done something that has blown my mind, which is somehow, time and time again, I find myself defending people and things that I would never want to defend. Like, first of all, I'm watching Jimmy Kimmel. I don't know how that happened. I blame Trump for that. Second, like, Tylenol is a dangerous medication. I'm a liver doc. Yes. Suicidal, like Tylenol overdose is causing acute liver injury and acute liver failure is a massive, real issue across the world. And it is, it's, it's a real thing. So there are reasons that we should be watchful of Tylenol, but this is not one of them.

[James]

Right, yeah.

[Tyler Black]

Personally, I'm a champion of all. Tylenol should be like the uk. It should be in individually wrapped pieces because there is evidence that that reduces the rate of intentional overdose and even ICU overdoses that cause liver failure. So take away freedoms. Yeah, Right.

[Kaveh Hoda]

This is the medical freedom crowd. It's amazing.

[James]

Yeah. We should take an advertising break and then come back. So we'll do that.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Oh, God, that would be fantastic. If I could take an advertisement, I could use an ad right now so.

[James]

Bad it's going to be for fucking lemon pepper water, which is the only pain treatment you should be taking bark.

[Kaveh Hoda]

To put between your teeth.

[James]

Sure. Yeah, yeah. Go get some leaves and fucking eat them. What can go wrong?

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[Matt Jones]

There's a vile sickness in Ambas Town. You must excise it. Dig into the deep earth and cut it out. The village is ravaged. Entire families have been consumed.

[Dr. Leslie]

You know how waking up from a dream a familiar place can look completely alien.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Get back everyone. He's got knacks.

[Matt Jones]

And if you see the devil walking around inside of another man, you must cut out the very heart of him, burn his body and scatter the ashes in the furthest corner of this town.

[Aaron Manke]

As a warning from iHeart podcasts and grim and mild from Aaron Manke, this is Havoc Town, a new fiction podcast set in the Bridgewater Audio universe starring Jewel State and Ray Wise. Listen to Havoc town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Matt Jones]

The Devil Walks in Amberstown.

[Tyler Black]

Hey, this.

[Matt Jones]

Is Matt Jones and I'm Drew Franklin and this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Did you see the Colts Pretzel?

[Tyler Black]

That was my other big takeaway from that game.

[Matt Jones]

What was that?

[Tyler Black]

Oh my.

[Matt Jones]

We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining.

[Tyler Black]

And twice a week that is exactly.

[Matt Jones]

What you're going to get. Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Tyler Black]

Toyota the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit toyota.com NFL now to learn more.

[Dr. Leslie]

Do you want to hear the secrets of serial killers, psychopaths, pedophiles, robbers?

[Tyler Black]

They are sitting there waiting for the vulnerable thing. They're waiting for the unprotected.

[Dr. Leslie]

I'm Dr. Leslie, forensic psychologist. I advocate for safety and awareness of predators while wearing pink.

[Tyler Black]

When you were described to me As.

[Dr. Leslie]

A forensic psychologist, I was like, snooze.

[Tyler Black]

We ended up talking for hours and I was like, this girl is my best friend.

[Dr. Leslie]

This is a podcast where I cut through the noise with sarcasm, satire and hard truths.

[Tyler Black]

I am not going to fake it.

[Dr. Leslie]

And force it, but would you force an orgasm? Because that's like a different layer. The car accident you didn't want to see but couldn't turn away from. In this episode, I discuss personal safety and self defense. Tools, instincts and strategies to protect yourself and your loved ones in everyday life and high risk situations. Listen to Intentionally disturbing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[James]

All right, we are back. Thank you for that message from Leaf Pain relief.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Hit the spot.

[James]

It's good. Don't eat leaves. I saw someone posing with a. They were taking their graduation pictures. Very nice setting. I'm not going to say the flower, I guess just in case. It can cause quite remarkable hallucinations and it is not, not a good idea to be like half, half in it. Yeah, it's a nice looking flower. If you didn't know, you might huff it.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Well, now I want to know what the hell you're talking about. You're going to tell me later.

[James]

I'm assuming you've lived in California your whole life. How do you not know this? Yeah, I'll text you after we're done.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Dandelions. Is it dandelions? I've been told not to.

[James]

Roses. Yeah.

[Tyler Black]

It reminds me though, there was a TikTok video of. There's been a few of, of women proudly being pregnant and ingesting Tylenol. And to be clear, that's a, that's an insane response to this problem. Like, please don't take Tylenol. Point. As Kevin was saying before the break, right. Tylenol does deplete the glutathione in your body and it is toxic to your liver. If your liver doesn't have the glutathione necessary, it directly injures the liver. And this is what happens when you take an overdose is it overwhelms the amount of glutathione that your liver has and it causes liver damage.

[Kaveh Hoda]

And most pregnant women who want to keep the baby are very judicious to begin with, not just like downing shit willy nilly, you know what I mean? Like, they're like, oh God, this is really bad. I better take something. And Tylenol, by the way, sucks, you know, as a pain medicine. You know, it's not going to, it's like the thing you take when they won't give you anything else. It's not a great one. So you. To take it from them without a good reason, without a proposed mechanism. If you're going to make extraordinary claims, you have to have, if not extraordinary evidence, preponderance of it. So this is really bothering me, as you can tell, because it does not exist.

[James]

Yeah. I think something you mentioned earlier, like when, like you said, you're backed into a corner where you're defending like Big Pharma and Tylenol specifically, like, is the one thing that they've tried to do is like inhabit nuance and then disingenuously use it.

[Tyler Black]

Absolutely.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Yes, yes.

[Tyler Black]

That's the entire anti vaccines move.

[James]

Yeah, yeah. Right. And then it leads to people responding in a way that erases nuance entirely. I understand why we get that response, but like it's, it's not the correct response. Right, yeah. People want you to be like, this is 100% safe. Right. They want you to say, this is actually the perfect medication and it's fine and you should have it for breakfast.

[Tyler Black]

Yeah. And the HHS tweeted out a statement that Tylenol did in 2017, basically saying, we don't recommend Tylenol in pregnancy, but no drug maker recommends any medication. They all say, specifically talk to your doctor about this medication. They're not allowed to recommend the medication. Only doctors can. So.

[James]

Yeah.

[Tyler Black]

Right. So when they're using that language and then HHS tweets it out, HHS is tweeting it out specifically to give the illusion that we don't want pregnant people to be taking this medication. They specifically said, we don't recommend it. And that's a nuance and that's how they use it. And it just sucks.

[James]

Right?

[Kaveh Hoda]

That's exactly right. And Tylenol, the makers of it, by the way, I am curious about the fact that Johnson Johnson spun off Ken View. I wonder if they knew this was coming and that's why they did it. The same way that dupont spun off.

[Tyler Black]

It was only three years ago that they did that. Right.

[Kaveh Hoda]

You know, like dupont spun off the company in charge of all their pfas, their forever chemicals, because they knew shit was coming down the pipeline. I wonder if that was the same reason here Tylenol did this.

[Tyler Black]

Well, they put, they put Band Aid and Neutrogena in the same group. So I think it was more just to consolidate home stuff.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Interesting. Yeah.

[James]

Got a press conference coming next week.

[Kaveh Hoda]

About Band Aids, cancer cause anxiety.

[James]

Yeah.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Anyways, it's very interesting to me that this is happening at all, really. I mean, what I thought was interesting about the press conference, and I wonder if you guys picked up on this too, was, you know, I was wondering, why is this pivot happening? How can RFK Jr be happy about this? He can't be happy about leaving his crusade against vaccines. The MAHA community behind him clearly doesn't love that aspect. And I wonder why they were pivoting to that. And I wonder what you guys think about that. I did feel that during that press conference, Trump really went out of his way to sort of give lip service. And we could. We should talk about this too, about vaccines. He talked about vaccines a lot, even though there's no new evidence about vaccines causing problems. And Trump gave this terrible advice about breaking up the vaccines, which we know is a terrible idea because that's gonna lead to decreased uptake overall. The more visits you have to go back to, the less likely you're gonna do it. So the more likely you're not gonna get vaccinated.

[Tyler Black]

But.

[Kaveh Hoda]

But it made me wonder why this is happening now, why they decided to. To make this pivot. And I wonder what you both think about that.

[Tyler Black]

My theory is the link with fevers. If I'm being really conspiratorial, I would say that they're going to try and link vaccine induced fever to autism and they're going to say, oh, we thought it was the Tylenol, but it turns out to be the vaccines.

[Kaveh Hoda]

It's the fever. And the fever is caused by the vaccines.

[Tyler Black]

Yes.

[James]

Yeah, yeah. My theory is gender. I think that telling pregnant people to suck it up is when you've got, you know, your dudes all standing on the podium there. Right. Like, the majority of pregnant people are going to be women. It's something that men have been doing to women for millennia.

[Tyler Black]

Yeah.

[James]

Like it's a safer bet then, yeah, your kid might die, but, you know, you never know.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Yeah, yeah. Which actually, you know, that brings up another thing that I think we should talk about, which is what Trump kept saying. Yeah, Trump kept saying, don't take it. But he was like, what's the worst that happens? Nothing bad will come of it.

[James]

Yeah.

[Kaveh Hoda]

So it invokes this precautionary principle, which is like, why not avoid the Tylenol? What's the worst that can happen? And that doesn't work here.

[Tyler Black]

No.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Because we know that people are taking this for a fever. Tylenol is not good for inflammation. It doesn't work on inflammation the way Advil, Ibuprofen does it, but it can work on a fever. And we know that fever can have some risk, at least as much, if not more than Tylenol. In harm to the baby, in harm to the pregnancy. So to me, the precautionary principle just doesn't apply here. And to hear the president. I never heard a president give medical advice before like that. It blew my mind. I felt like I was disassociating while I was watching this. I'm like, this cannot be realized.

[Tyler Black]

He said it so unequivocally. Don't take Tylenol. Just suck it up. And I tweeted something that I read from Dr. Glockenflocken, who is one of my favorite medical comedians, but he said, this will kill people. And I do agree. I think people were very incredulous when I said, this will kill people. And they were like, what do you mean, people dying of a fever? I'm like, yeah, kind of like, fevers can be really bad for you. And if you're not going to hospital and the only thing you have is Tylenol, it's a really good idea to take the Tylenol. And there's some people that don't go to hospital for lots of reasons. And fevers can kill you. They just can.

[James]

Yeah.

[Kaveh Hoda]

So I disapprove of the Canadian and Englishman referring to the hospital as hospital. We need you guys to refer to it as the hospital.

[James]

I'd forgotten about that. Yeah. Always for the definite article. Yeah.

[Tyler Black]

Taking it to a hospital. Yes.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Thank you, guys.

[James]

But, yeah, I think you're right. Like, there is no, like, no harm option here. Right. Like, that is a damage is done when people don't take this.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Right.

[Tyler Black]

I just imagine this. This poor mom, you know, at home, you know, doesn't have great healthcare, but does have a bottle of Tylenol and is battling a. Sorry, I'll Americanize this, like, 104 degree fever.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Thank you. Don't make me do math.

[Tyler Black]

You're welcome.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Don't make me do math.

[Tyler Black]

You know, and, you know, it's around that 304 mark where we actually get really worried about the person's brain. We get really worried about their health and what's going to happen and what would happen to that person in hospital. They would absolutely get Tylenol right away prescribed by a doctor. Right that moment. And so I worry about this. I worry about this mom presenting to hospital with her fever. She's pregnant, and the doctors say, okay, we're going to give you Tylenol. And she says no. Why? Because I don't want my child to have autism.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Because people are listening to this guy, first of all, again, the hospital. Second, they're going to listen to this guy. Insane people are really going to take this advice.

[Tyler Black]

And I could see, you know, especially the more Trump following people saying, you will never give me Tylenol, not in this hospital.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Right?

[Tyler Black]

And so, so it does sound silly that not taking Tylenol could kill you. But if you're so scared of Tylenol because it causes autism that you don't take it when it's recommended to you by a doctor where it's prescribed to you by a doctor, you could die. And and I won't be surprised when there are more fever induced deaths in 2025 and 2020 states. I already have the CDC wonder data search ready to go because I study mortality all the time and I am absolutely sure we're going to see a few more fever induced deaths than we would have previously.

[James]

Jeez. Yeah.

[Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club Announcer]

Time for a sofa upgrade? Visit washablesofas.com and discover Annabe where designer style meets budget friendly preference prices with sofas starting at $699. Anabe brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to rearrange your space effortlessly. Perfect for both small and large spaces, Anabe is the only machine washable sofa inside and out. Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid and stain resistant fabrics that make cleaning easy. Liquid simply slides right off. Designed for custom comfort, our high resilience foam lets you choose between a sink in feel or a supportive memory foam blend. Plus our pet friendly stain resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years. Don't compromise quality. For price. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your living space today with no risk returns and a 30 day money back guarantee. Get up to 60% off plus free shipping and free returns. Shop [e-mail] Authors are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Matt Jones]

There's a vile sickness in Abbas town. You must excise it. Dig into the deep earth and cut it out. The village is ravaged. Entire families have been consumed.

[Dr. Leslie]

You know how waking up from a dream a familiar place can look completely alien.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Get back everyone who's got ds and.

[Matt Jones]

If you see the devil walking around inside of another man, you must cut out the very heart of him, burn his body and scatter the ashes in the furthest corner of this town.

[Aaron Manke]

As a warning from Iheart podcasts and grim and mild from Aaron Manke, this is Havoc Town, a new fiction podcast set in the Bridgewater audio universe starring Jewel State and Ray Watts. Listen to Havoc town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Matt Jones]

The Devil Walks in Amberstown. Hey, this is Matt Jones and I'm Drew Franklin and this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Did you see the Colts pretzel?

[Tyler Black]

That was my other big takeaway from that.

[Matt Jones]

What was that?

[Tyler Black]

Oh. Oh my.

[Matt Jones]

We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining.

[Tyler Black]

And twice a week, that is exactly.

[Matt Jones]

What you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Tyler Black]

Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit toyota.com NFL now to learn more.

[Dr. Leslie]

Do you want to hear the secrets of serial killers, psychopaths, pedophiles, robbers?

[Tyler Black]

They are sitting there waiting for the vulnerable thing. They're waiting for the unprotected.

[Dr. Leslie]

I'm Dr. Leslie, forensic psychologist. I advocate for safety and awareness of predators while wearing pink.

[Tyler Black]

When you were described to me as.

[Dr. Leslie]

A forensic psychologist, I was like, snooze.

[Tyler Black]

We ended up talking for hours and I was like, this girl is my best friend.

[Dr. Leslie]

This is a podcast where I cut through the noise with sarcasm, sad satire and hard truths. I'm not gonna fake it and force it, but would you force an orgasm? Because that's like a different layer. The car accident you didn't want to see but couldn't turn away from. In this episode, I discuss personal safety and self defense tools, instincts and strategies to protect yourself and your loved ones in everyday life and high risk situations. Listen to Intentionally Disturbing on the I Heart Rate radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[James]

Maybe like we can finish up by explaining to people like, you know, if you're talking to someone in your family. Right. Someone who maybe isn't a listener. Sadly to either of our podcasts. I know this isn't directly the area either of you specialize in, but from what I understand, pregnant people like the way that drugs are categorized. As we spoke about earlier on, there's not like, yeah, go ahead and take all of these, right? There's like probably fine if you have to. Probably a bad idea unless you really need to. And like maybe some straight up don't.

[Tyler Black]

Yeah.

[James]

Can you explain that for people?

[Tyler Black]

Sure. So there's a classification system and it's technical, but it's exactly like that. There are very few medications that are, like, totally fine. These are medications that are given during pregnancy that have been well studied in pregnancy. But for the most part, pretty much everything else in my world of psychiatry, you know, SSRIs and antipsychotics and benzodiazepines and whatnot, they all have the same classification, which is basically contraindicated. Don't take it unless your doctor prescribes it for you. Now, we still get pregnant people with depression and psychosis and who need all these medications. And so we do have to interpret it based off of the data that we have. And the data that we have always comes late. So if we find a problem, it's found too late. And generally it's precautionary. So typically, I don't know, Kaveh, if there's a similar thing in GI work. But, like, for me, I'll get a call all the time. Oh, we have this woman. She's 32. She's really worried. She normally takes antidepressants, but she's thinking about stopping them because she's really worried about passing into her baby or whatever. And I'm like, how bad is the depression? Well, it was really bad. She was hospitalized three times and nearly died. I was like, probably want to keep antidepressant treatment going and just let her know that there could be some harm to the fetus, but depression is way worse. And we just go with, God, do your best.

[Kaveh Hoda]

There are certain medications where we are going to say, you absolutely shouldn't take these during pregnancy, and you should discuss that with your obstetrician. Talk that over with your gynecologist and your primary care doctor. You should talk it over with your medical team. That's great. But every medication has some small amount of risk, some larger than others, but it's really about the risk versus the benefit. And this has been well studied by the experts. And what you've heard, what those people have heard from Trump and RFK Jr. Is well outside of the normal recommendations from the experts like the acog, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the people who have been keeping our pregnant patients alive and relatively well for many, many years. This is well outside of those recommendations. And while it's an interesting topic and I think maybe, you know, sure, I'd like to see more studies on it, I'm never going to say don't study this more.

[James]

Right.

[Kaveh Hoda]

I would say that the preponderance of evidence and scientific belief and medical belief in this one goes against what they're saying. And I would say at least talk it over with your doctor. If you have a question, talk it over with your doctor. And that's. You mentioned it before. Town law has sort of like, you know, tried to hedge its bets by saying, talk, get over with your doctor. But the reason they do that is they know most doctors are going to be reasonable about this and follow the scientific evidence that's there. So I would say if they really have a question, they should talk about their doctor. Because Trump, whether or not they love him or not, this is well out of his range of understanding. And he is getting, it's like a game of telephone. He's getting a version of the medical information transmitted to him by RFK Jr who is getting a weird version of it from his belief system. And it's being supported by people who are there solely just to. Just there to do the beck and call of Trump at this point. And that's super dangerous. And so if they can keep an open mind about it, talk it over with their doctor, continue to do what their parents did, I think they're going to be okay.

[James]

Yeah. Real quick. Because for reasons that are actually related to the way that we do healthcare in the United States, people sometimes are reticent to talk to their doctor, unable to talk to a doctor. Reliable sources of medical information versus the shit that you find on Google. Give us like a five minute primer.

[Tyler Black]

Yeah. So, you know, in almost every jurisdiction there is an official health agency that you can go to their website and get good health data. So in B.C. we have HealthLink BC and there's a number that you can call to speak to a nurse. In America, you have great, I would say used to be great. Like Cleveland Clinic used to be really great, but they got a little hokey. I would still say, you know, there are some really good American places that you can go. Mayo Clinic has a lot of public facing information that has pretty good general descriptions. But just make sure it's from a place that is official because there is a whole space now that's going to be opened up. Because the second part of this presentation that RFK gave was about a generic medication that might help some people with a very specific form of autism. And I promise you the amount of huckstering that's going to happen based on that. The alternatives, you know, we made a joke about lemon water before the ad break, but there are going to be people who are going to be selling the alternative to Tylenol that is autism free. Yeah. And that, that's really worrisome.

[James]

Yeah.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Be wary of anyone that has something in their Instagram, their talk, their wellness post that uses the words detox. Be wary about ancient remedies. Be wary about anyone that is selling something, like Dr. Oz, who, by the way, sells a version of the folinic acid or the leucovorin that they're talking about here. So be wary about that. We don't sell shit. Be wary about people like Dr. Baccarelli, the dean of Harvard Epidemiology, who, by the way, I've heard is a good doctor from the friends I have in Harvard. They say he's not a bad guy. But be wary about the fact anytime you see someone's making $150,000 off a court trial to sue Tylenol and has a vested interest in these things, so you should be wary about those things. That's definitely something to look for. And if you're looking for a trusted source, Speaking of hucksters, you could listen to my podcast, the House of Pod, anywhere you find podcasts where we're going to talk about medical stuff just like this. And I will bring you trusted sources.

[James]

Beautiful. That was all a long play to get you to listen to Kaveh's podcast.

[Kaveh Hoda]

But no, I'm in it for the long con. I'm in it for the long con, buddy.

[James]

Yeah, thank you for helping us clear that up a bit. I think it's a real rough time for healthcare in general and especially people with autism or neurodivergent people. It really fucking sucks to see the entire federal government badmouthing people. So, yeah, we are thinking of you.

[Tyler Black]

Very similar to the issue with trans kids. I'm a Canadian and we have right next door to my province, Alberta, which is very much taking the route of Florida and other things with respect to trans policies. And it's just gotta suck to be a trans kid in Florida right now. It's gotta suck to be a trans kid anywhere in America right now, knowing what's coming down the pipeline. And yeah, it'll be the same for people with autism and families with autistic kids. Yeah.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Yep. I could conservatively complain about this for another three hours.

[James]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kaveh Hoda]

We didn't even talk about hepatitis B, by the way. We didn't even talk about hepatitis B. But we can talk about that some other point. There's just so much, so much. And it's so terrible. And you're absolutely right. It's really like for that community right now.

[Tyler Black]

By the way, I wanted to debunk Something. Because it's been said multiple times.

[James]

Yeah, yeah, get it?

[Tyler Black]

Rfk. And a whole bunch of people have said, I didn't know anybody autistic when I was, you know, my. When I was a kid or whatever. I've never met someone autistic my age. Donald Triplett was the very first person diagnosed with autism in 1943, I believe. 1943. He just died last year. I think he was something like 80, 90 years old. Okay.

[James]

Yeah.

[Tyler Black]

Autistic people are old, too. This idea that there aren't old autistic people is so ass backwards. It was just not diagnosed.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Yes.

[Tyler Black]

And. And. And it's. It's such a shame because when. When he. When Donald Triplett passed, you know, like, people in psychiatry notice, that's not the type of thing that people in the world notice, but he was the very first autistic person. He lived a full life. He was an engineer. He had autism. It was diagnosed. He was the first ever case diagnosed, and he also lived a life. And so for RFK to just erase him completely and say, I've never known an old person to have autism is just ridiculous.

[James]

Yeah. And if you conduct yourself as RSK does with being a piece of shit to neurodivergent people, then even people who have been diagnosed aren't just going to be like, hey, man, yeah, I wanted to talk to you about my autism, because you're being a turd to them and you're being unkind. Yeah. Like, what do you expect?

[Tyler Black]

Yeah.

[Kaveh Hoda]

I mean, yeah, Tyler Grandin is, like, how old is she now? Like, in her 70s. I mean, it's absurd to think that this is a totally new thing. I mean, it also tells me that he was probably a bit sheltered and probably didn't meet enough people.

[Tyler Black]

Wow. A Kennedy sheltered. Wow.

[James]

Yeah. Yeah. He's had a different experience of life to many of us, it's fair to say.

[Tyler Black]

I got through the whole podcast without making a Tyler Null pun. I'm very proud of that. I usually do pretty much every time, and it pisses my wife off so much.

[Kaveh Hoda]

I'm really proud of you, man. You've shown a lot of growth.

[James]

Yeah. Yeah. That's great.

[Tyler Black]

I was.

[James]

I was gonna make one, but I thought I'd leave it. I didn't want to offend. Yeah. Thank you very much. Where can people find both of you on. On the Internet, if they'd like to, or, you know, in person?

[Kaveh Hoda]

Don't find me in person.

[James]

Do not do that.

[Kaveh Hoda]

As you can listen to my podcast, the House of Po you listen to podcasts, you'll hear people like James, you'll hear people like Tyler. Last time Tyler was on was actually for episode 284. We did an episode on adult ADHD with author Rax King and she's Brad. So that's a good episode to listen to. And you can find me on Blue sky md. I still have a Twitter account and Instagram account, but I don't really use those that much. So find me on Blue Sky. Blue sky, by the way, as a shout out, as a plug. I think it's good for science. If you're interested in science based stuff. It may not be that much fun for everything else, but at least in terms of like, if you want to follow doctors, scientists, that's a good place to go.

[Tyler Black]

That's.

[Kaveh Hoda]

That's where a lot of us have gone. So, okay, I'll be there at Blue Sky.

[Tyler Black]

Yeah. And I'm. I am still on Twitter. Tyler Black, 32. I'm slugging it out. It is a lot of hate and a lot of death threats now, especially as I've. I've been on a few trans podcasts. I've been on quite a few medical, anti vax and vaccine podcasts. So, you know, I'll pop up from time to time on a podcast or something. But I'm not really have anything to plug anymore. I'm just really hoping that we can continue to fight this. This sort of. It's a really disgusting reality in this decade that, that misinformation has won the day and literally misinformers are the political leaders now. And misinformation has just eroded science to the point where I don't know if America's ever going to get it back.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Yeah, if we do, this has set us back many years. This has set us back many, many years.

[James]

Yeah, it's pretty bleak.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Well, that was fun.

[Tyler Black]

Yay.

[James]

Let's end on that hopeful note. Yeah. All right.

[Tyler Black]

It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website coolzone media.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple.

[Kaveh Hoda]

Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Tyler Black]

You can now find sources for It Could Happen here listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.

[Matt Jones]

There's a vile sickness in Amstown. You must excise it. Dig into the deep earth and cut it out.

[Aaron Manke]

From Iheart Podcasts and Grim and Mild from Aaron Manke. This is Havoc Town, a new fiction podcast set in the Bridgewater Audio universe, starring Jewel State and Ray Wise Listen to Havoc town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dr. Leslie]

Do you want to hear the secrets of psychopaths, murderers, sex offenders? In this episode, I offer tips from them. I'm Dr. Leslie, forensic psychologist. This is a podcast where I cut through the noise with real talk.

[Tyler Black]

When you were described to me as.

[Dr. Leslie]

A forensic psychologist, I was like, snooze.

[Tyler Black]

We ended up talking for hours and I was like, this girl is my best friend.

[Dr. Leslie]

Let's talk about safety and strategies to protect yourself and your loved ones. Listen to Intentionally disturbing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Danielle Robaix]

Just like great shoes, great books take you places through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters. And you'll never forget, I think, any good romance.

[James]

It gives me this feeling of like butterflies.

[Danielle Robaix]

I'm Danielle Robaix and this is bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. The new podcast from hello Sunshine and I Heart Podcasts, where we dive into the stories that shape us on the page and off. Each week I'm joined by authors, celebs, book talk stars, and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry, and add way too many books to your TBR pile. Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club. Visit Apple Co ReeseAppleBooks to find out more.

[Tyler Black]

I'm Bridget Armstrong, host of the new.

[Dr. Leslie]

Podcast the Curse of America's Next Top Model. I've been investigating the real story behind that iconic show. I ended up having anorexia issues, bulimia.

[Tyler Black]

Issues, by talking to the models, the.

[Dr. Leslie]

Producers, and the people who profited from it all.

[Tyler Black]

We basically sold our souls and they got rich. If you were so rooting for her and saw her drowning, why don't you.

[Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club Announcer]

Help her Listen to the Curse of.

[Dr. Leslie]

America's Next Top model on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. This is an iHeart podcast.