Domination Is Peace: Trump’s 20 Point Peace Plan for Palestine feat. Dana El Kurd

Summary

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It Could Happen Here: "Domination Is Peace: Trump’s 20 Point Peace Plan for Palestine"

Guest: Dana El Kurd
Date Recorded: October 19, 2025 (aired October 21, 2025)
Host: Cool Zone Media (Cool Zone team not present; solo episode with El Kurd)
Main Theme:
A deep critique and analysis of the Trump administration’s newly proposed "20 Point Peace Plan" for Gaza, its political context, and the implications for Palestinians, featuring the perspective of political scientist Dana El Kurd.

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1. Overview of the Episode

Dana El Kurd, a Palestinian political scientist and analyst, delivers a detailed, critical breakdown of the Trump administration’s Gaza ceasefire and "peace plan." El Kurd places the announcement in historical and ongoing contexts, scrutinizing both the plan’s substance and the lack thereof—particularly its reliance on external control, the absence of real Palestinian agency, and a pattern of international impunity for Israeli leadership. El Kurd questions whether the plan offers any prospect for genuine peace or justice, or simply entrenches domination.

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2. Key Discussion Points & Insights

A. Immediate Context: The Post-Ceasefire Situation

• Ceasefire Talks in Cairo: Negotiators from Israel, Hamas, and several nations meet in Cairo over a new phase of ceasefire. Recent developments include:
  • The release of all remaining Israeli hostages by Hamas.
  • Israel withdrawing from parts of Gaza and releasing some Palestinian political prisoners and bodies of those killed and held since October 7.
• Grim Testimonies: El Kurd highlights the severe abuse, torture, and dehumanization Palestinians have faced in Israeli prisons. Released prisoner bodies showed extreme abuse, and even global activists like Greta Thunberg, detained on the Gaza flotilla, experienced humiliation and violence.
  • Quote: “...if they do this to a white person with a Swedish passport, we can only imagine what they do to Palestinians.” (03:21, paraphrasing Greta Thunberg)

B. The 20 Point Trump "Peace Plan" for Gaza (04:30)

• Crafted with Trump, Jared Kushner, and Tony Blair; details are vague but structure is clear:

  • Key Provisions:
    • Rapid return of remaining Israeli hostages (within 72 hours).
    • Demilitarization of Gaza.
    • Creation of an international stabilization/security force to eventually replace Israeli troops—a buffer zone maintained.
    • Formation of a "technocratic, apolitical" temporary Palestinian government dealing solely in service provision, under the strict supervision of a "Board of Peace" (Trump, Blair, and others).
    • Language about economic development and "de-radicalization" programs.
    • Disavows formal ethnic cleansing, but only in so many words.
    • Palestinian statehood "might" be considered, but only if Palestinians "comply" and the PA is "reformed" to international satisfaction.
  • Quote: “If the Palestinians do good, if they comply with the International Security Force, if they take orders from the Board of Peace and ‘reform’ the PA in some way... then maybe their demands for self-determination and statehood will eventually be discussed.” (07:37)

• Palestinian Exclusion: The plan is presented with little to no Palestinian input; real agency is missing.

C. The Meaning of “Reforming the PA” (Palestinian Authority) (08:09)

• Western and Israeli Perspective: “Reforming the PA” usually means installing "acceptable" leadership (e.g., pushing Abbas to appoint a US/Israel-friendly vice president like Hsin al Sheikh, a businessman/security figure who polls at 2% among Palestinians).
• What Reform Doesn't Mean: Not about actual democracy, not about letting all Palestinians participate, not about reforming the PLO’s structure—just creating a plausible rubber-stamp.
  • Quote: “Even if most Palestinians, 85% in the latest poll are dissatisfied with the PA's conduct and 42% support the dissolution of the PA altogether, this is a dangerous game to play.” (10:56)

D. Lessons from Other Peace Processes (15:25)

• Necessity of Public Buy-In: El Kurd notes that genuine peace is impossible without societal buy-in. Otherwise, you get “authoritarian conflict management” rather than true resolution—structural violence is maintained for the sake of control.
• Double Standards of International Mediation:
  • Good Friday Agreement (Northern Ireland): Included referendums and input from all parties, even militant groups.
  • Yugoslavia/Bosnia: Perpetrators of genocide faced international courts.
  • Israel/Palestine: No talk of accountability for leaders accused of war crimes—Trump even backs Netanyahu in the Knesset and supports him during domestic corruption scandals.
    • Quote: “When international leaders or ex leaders.. think about conflicts in the Middle east involving Arabs, then public buy in, democratic processes... no longer factor into decision making, the buy in and opinion of the public matters, but apparently only certain publics.” (16:54)

E. Fundamental Problems with the "Strangle Contract" (19:29)

• Unequal Bargaining: Drawing on scholar Marika Sosnowski (University of Melbourne), El Kurd labels this ceasefire/peace plan a “strangle contract,” not a peace accord between equals.
  • Only Minimum Concessions: Hostage release, partial Israeli withdrawal, aid allowed in—these are just the basics, not real gains for Palestinians.
  • Lack of Leverage: Israel can accuse Palestinians of non-compliance and resume war at any time; Palestinians have no meaningful recourse.
  • International Mediation Not Neutral: With Trump, Kushner, and Blair leading, bias is built-in.
  • Quote (from Sosnowski): “If there is a ceasefire, people know the devil is coming.” (21:19, quoting Palestinian leader from Yarmouk camp)
• Violations Continue: Even after the "ceasefire," killings and abuses against Palestinians go on, yet these aren't treated as breaches by international headline writers.

F. Conclusion: No Genuine Peace Without Justice or Participation (22:14)

• The Trump/Blair plan is domination framed as peace. Palestinians lack agency, while the international community—especially under US or Israeli patronage—sidelines justice and accountability.
• Quote: “Because the Trump administration has twisted the meaning of words where domination equals peace and injustice equals stability... once this happens, I fear very few will question the premise of this agreement and the entire peace process to begin with. A peace process where Palestinians aren't even allowed to participate. No one can be surprised when this doesn't last, and no one can be surprised that this cannot be the basis for sustainable peace. But hey, I hope I'm wrong.” (22:19)

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3. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Israeli Prison Abuse/Greta Thunberg:

  “If they do this to a white person with a Swedish passport, we can only imagine what they do to Palestinians.” (03:21)

• On US/Israel Control of PA Reform:

  “What reforming the PA does not mean, it looks like, is actual democratic reform, where Palestinians can choose not only their president but also on their legislative representatives... It looks like reforming the PA doesn't mean all Palestinians will be allowed to participate...” (09:37)

• On Public Buy-In’s Absence:

  “If you don't include people's buy in, what you're banking on is being able to suppress people. And what you want isn't really peace, it's authoritarian conflict management. It's illiberal, it maintains structural violence in the name of preserving peace.” (15:25)

• On Double Standards:

  “The buy in and opinion of the public matters, but apparently only certain publics.” (16:56)

• On Nature of the Ceasefire:

  “She [Sosnowski] expresses concern that this agreement is highly coercive and that it enables the more powerful party to force the weaker party into agreeing to anything in order for them to survive. This is in direct contrast to a bargain between two equal parties that can sustain peace.” (20:25)

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4. Important Timestamps

• [02:33] Dana El Kurd introduces the state of the ceasefire, prisoner exchanges, and initial abuses.
• [04:30] First comprehensive description of the Trump 20 point plan.
• [08:09] Deep dive on “reforming the Palestinian Authority.”
• [10:56] Polls showing PA illegitimacy among Palestinians.
• [15:25] Lessons from global peace negotiations; why public buy-in matters.
• [16:54] Double standard in international conflict resolution.
• [19:29] Scholar Marika Sosnowski's critique—“strangle contract,” lack of leverage, continuing violence.
• [22:14] Closing reflections on the failure of the plan to provide real peace or justice.

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5. Tone & Style

El Kurd’s tone is incisive, analytical, and unflinching—grounded both in political science expertise and personal connection to Palestinian realities. She skewers the hypocrisy and performativity of international processes while emphasizing lived reality for ordinary Palestinians. Her language alternates between sober analysis and sardonic, biting asides (“It’s like, is the state in the room with us now?”).

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6. Final Takeaways

• The Trump/Kushner/Blair “peace plan” is more about entrenched domination and performative governance than genuine resolution.
• Palestinians have no real seat at the table; “reform” is code for installing a client government, not democratic accountability.
• The international community applies very different standards of process, participation, and justice in the Middle East as compared to other world conflicts.
• Without true public engagement, accountability, and sovereignty, cycles of violence are likely to continue—masked as “peace” by those in power.
• As El Kurd concludes: “No one can be surprised when this doesn’t last... But hey, I hope I’m wrong.” (22:40)

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Transcript

[Dana El Kurd]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Dana El Kurd]

Five, six white people pushed me in the car.

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[Dana El Kurd]

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[Dana El Kurd]

Call Zone Media. Hello everyone and welcome to It Could Happen here. My name is Dana El Kurd and I'm a writer, analyst and researcher of Palestinian and Arab politics. I'm an Associate professor of Political science and a senior non resident fellow at the Arab Center Washington. I'm recording this on October 19, 2025, negotiators from a number of countries and Israel were in Cairo recently discussing the next phase of the ceasefire agreement between Hamas and Israel. Hamas has since released all remaining Israeli hostages as well as the bodies of those who were killed. And Israel has withdrawn from certain parts of the Gaza Strip and started to release political prisoners as well as the bodies of Palestinians who have been killed after they were detained since October 7. Some of the testimonies from these prisoners is just incredibly hard to stomach. The degree of dehumanization that's been allowed to take place in these Israeli prisons, the torture and abuse that they faced is truly, truly harrowing. Some of the Palestinian bodies that have been released are mutilated with extreme signs of torture. Some were released blindfolded and cuffed, returned with a noose around their neck. Greta Thunberg, who was on the flotilla recently trying to break the siege of Gaza, just also returned from Israeli prison where she was also abused and stripped and mistreated. She said in a recent interview, if they do this to a white person with a Swedish passport, we can only imagine what they do to Palestinians. And of course we are seeing this play out before our eyes in a fair and just world where international law meant something, there would be consequences for this Instead. Today I want to talk about this plan that's been proposed by the Trump administration, the 20 point peace plan for Gaza. Reportedly, ex UK Prime Minister Tony Blair has been consulting with Trump and his son in law advisor Jared Kushner for some time, hashing this plan out. We'll get back to him in a bit as he's quite the character. This plan, as the name suggests, has 20 points, but it's a little light on details. It outlines the return of remaining Israeli hostages very quickly, within 72 hours. It says the Gaza Strip needs to be, quote, demilitarized. It talks about the creation of an international stabilization force, an international security force to operate on the ground in Gaza with the eventual withdrawal of Israeli troops, but within a buffer zone. And this force would consist of soldiers from other countries. It also talks about the formation of a, quote, technocratic, apolitical Palestinian temporary government to run the Gaza Strip territory until the peace process is concluded. But this temporary Palestinian government would only be allowed to engage in service provision, nothing more. That government would also be overseen by a, quote, board of peace run by Trump himself, his pal Tony Blair and other yet unspecified members. There is some language on the economic development of a, quote, new Gaza and some discussion of initiatives to promote tolerance, essentially to de radicalize Palestinians. Notably, the plan does not endorse ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Gaza, which was Wildly a serious thing on the table for a few months that Trump endorsed. But what it does say is still pretty insidious. Essentially, the plan says that a possible pathway to Palestinian self determination and statehood is conditioned on advances in, quote, Gaza's redevelopment and a, quote, Palestinian Authority reform program that is faithfully carried out. Only then the plan says, quote, conditions may finally be in place for a credible pathway to Palestinian self determination and statehood. Basically, if the Palestinians do good, if they comply with the International Security Force, if they take orders from the Board of Peace and quote, reform the PA in some way, and what that means is a really big open question, then maybe their demands for self determination and statehood will eventually be discussed. As I've said before on previous episodes, that statehood part is a bit tricky because statehood means different things to different people. Apparently Jared Kushner talked about maybe giving Palestinians a state without the annoying little detail of actual sovereignty. The Israeli Prime Minister that signed the Oslo accords, Yitzhak Rabin, which was the first time Palestinians and Israelis agreed to anything directly said after signing that Israel would only ever give Palestinians something, quote, less than a state. The international community keeps recognizing a Palestinian state when the Palestinians don't really have control of any territory. It's like, is the state in the room with us now? It's also important to note here that the plan that Trump is proposing doesn't really include any Palestinian input, at least meaningfully. The goal from Israel and the US's perspective is for Hamas to be removed from the equation altogether. There's some discussion actually still of whether they will actually disarm or not, because Hamas has said to the media that it's not considering this. And as I mentioned, there is this throwaway line about reforming the Palestinian Authority. But what that means and how the Palestinian people actually factor in isn't addressed. Here's my educated guess. When Trump and Israel and the international community say they want to reform the pa, we have to look at what they've been doing and pushing for in the past couple of months to understand what that actually means. So for them, if we look at their track record, reforming the PA means figuring out an acceptable alternative, from their perspective, to replace the octogenarian Palestinian President Mahmoud Abdas, so that the PA can seem on paper more legitimate and better positioned to sign away Palestinian rights during future negotiations. They've already been pushing behind the scenes to set that up. They pressured Abbas to convene the Palestine Liberation Organization Central Council, change the bylaws, create a vice president position, and appoint a guy that's acceptable to the US and Israel to that role. That man was Hsin al Sheikh, Palestinian businessman and former security guy who polls at 2% with Palestinians. What reforming the PA does not mean, it looks like, is actual democratic reform, where Palestinians can choose not only their president but also on their legislative representatives and on the PLO legislative body, the National Council. It looks like reforming the PA doesn't mean all Palestinians will be allowed to participate if limited elections are held. And it seems it doesn't mean responding to what Palestinian civil society has been asking for, which is reforming the PA by reforming the PLO altogether so that all Palestinians can participate in the discussion of national liberation. We can guess that the us, Israel and the international community are unlikely to offer any of this because they've propped up the PA in the past and seem intent on propping up some puppet government of the PA in the future. But they need the PA as some acceptable Palestinian entity to be even tangentially involved in future negotiations so that they can say, look, the Palestinians agreed too. This is legitimate, even if that PA doesn't represent people. Even if most Palestinians, 85% in the latest poll are dissatisfied with the PA's conduct and 42% support the dissolution of the PA altogether, this is a dangerous game to play.

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For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

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I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

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[Dana El Kurd]

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

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My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer. And I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

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I did not know her and I.

[Dana El Kurd]

Did not kill her or rape or.

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Burn or any of that other stuff.

[Dana El Kurd]

That y' all said.

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They literally made me say that I.

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Took a match and struck and threw it on her.

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They made me say that I poured gas on her.

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From Lava for good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

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[Podcast Advertiser/Host (various ads and promotions)]

We had 30 agents ready to go with shotguns and rifles and you name it.

[Narrator/Reporter (Graves County and Chinatown Sting segments)]

But what they find is not what they expected.

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Basically, your stay at home moms were picking up these large amounts of heroin. They go, is this your daughter? I said, yes. They go, oh, you may not see her for like 25 years.

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Caught between a federal investigation and the violent gang who recruited them, the women must decide who they're willing to protect and who they dare to betray.

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Once I saw the gun, I tried to take his hand and I saw the flash of light.

[Dana El Kurd]

Listen to the Chinatown sting on the.

[Narrator/Reporter (Graves County and Chinatown Sting segments)]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere you get your podcasts.

[Dana El Kurd]

Any sort of peace process in the future, as impossible as it seems at this current moment that isn't predicated on the complete annihilation of one side of the conflict will need some degree of public support. It will need societies involved in this conflict to buy into the process. Otherwise you get spoilers, you get political actors engaging in violence to disrupt the peace process or you don't really resolve the underlying issues in an even compromised, satisfactory way and people get upset and the conflict continues. So if you don't include people's buy in, what you're banking on is being able to suppress people. And what you want isn't really peace, it's authoritarian conflict management. It's illiberal, it maintains structural violence in the name of preserving peace. It means Palestinians wouldn't get the rights they have under international law, the right to self determination. And it means the occupation in some form doesn't end. Thing is, this is well understood and it's well understood by the people involved in this 20 point peace plan for Gaza. Tony Blair, for example, was Prime Minister of the UK when the Northern Ireland conflict was being negotiated and settled. He understood then that public buy in was important. The Good Friday Agreement, which ended the conflict in Northern Ireland for the past 27 years, had not one, but two referendums, one for the people of Northern Ireland and one for the people of the Republic of Ireland. The process of getting to the Good Friday agreement also included all groups, militant groups from both sides of the conflict. This is what it takes for a conflict to be contained in some shape or form. But for some reason, when international leaders or ex leaders in the case of Tony Blair think about conflicts in the Middle east involving Arabs, then public buy in democratic processes, sustainable peace no longer factor into decision making, the buy in and opinion of the public matters, but apparently only certain publics. In other conflicts also, like the breakdown of Yugoslavia, the perpetrators of genocidal violence were held accountable by international law. They were taken to the Hague. They faced repercussions, of course, not perfectly, not entirely. Not everyone. Some parties of the conflict that emerged in Bosnia after were rewarded for their violence. The vision of the Serbian leadership that committed war crimes in Bosnia came to fruition to some degree in the form of Republika Srpska today, which is a semi autonomous region that divides Bosnia Herzegovina. But nevertheless, the international community at least understood the necessity of holding perpetrators accountable for violence and war crimes in even if the execution was incomplete. In this case there is no such discussion. A number of human rights organizations and the UN Commission of Inquiry on the occupied Palestinian territory have found Israeli leaders, President Isaac Herzog, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and then Defense Minister Yoav Gallant personally responsible for the decisions made in Gaza. The decision to engage in genocide in Gaza. But the ceasefire plan which they are billing as a, quote, peace plan for a new Gaza, and they're trying to make the basis of future negotiations says nothing about accountability for crimes committed. Trump, in fact, went in front of the Knesset, the Israeli Parliament, and insisted on his support for Prime Minister Netanyahu. He even got involved in Netanyahu's corruption case that he has domestically in Israel. Addressing President Isaac Herzog as Knesset members clapped and jeered.

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[Dana El Kurd]

That's what we're dealing with here. Just an audacious, outrageous display of corruption on so many levels. The fact that these guys are the guys putting together the so called peace plan votes poorly for the sustainability of this ceasefire agreement beyond the first phase, beyond Israel getting what it wants, the hostages, a huge buffer zone that leaves Israel in control of Gaza's former urban areas, and possibly they might get the neutralization of Hamas. It's not clear that this ceasefire agreement can actually advance into a sustainable negotiation that maintains peace in the long run. It's why scholar Marika Sosnowski at the University of Melbourne, who studies ceasefire agreements in particular, calls this a strangle contract. She notes that Israeli withdrawal, release of hostages and full aid being led into Gaza is the, quote, bare minimum you would expect both sides to acquiesce to as part of a ceasefire deal. She expresses concern that this agreement is highly coercive and that it enables the more powerful party to force the weaker party into agreeing to anything in order for them to survive. This is in direct contrast to a bargain between two equal parties that can sustain peace. She also very rightly notes that Israel could at any time claim the Palestinians are not abiding by the terms of the agreement and end the ceasefire, justifying restarting the war. The Palestinians have no leverage at all in this agreement, and obviously they can't rely on unbiased international mediation with the Trump and Kushner and Blairs of the world at the helm of this. Sosnowski quotes a Palestinian leader from Yarmouk camp in Syria who said to her, if there is a ceasefire, people know the devil is coming. I think that captures exactly everyone's fears in this moment. The Palestinian Civil Defense Agency says 40 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza today, October 19th. Children have been shot and killed in the West Bank. After the ceasefire agreement, Israel raided the family homes of Palestinian prisoners in five districts across the west bank before releasing them. Netanyahu has said he won't open the Rafah crossing These all seem like Israeli violations to the ceasefire to me, but that's not how it'll be reported. And because the Trump administration has twisted the meaning of words where domination equals peace and injustice equals stability, once this happens, I fear very few will question the premise of this agreement and the entire peace process. To begin with, a peace process where Palestinians aren't even allowed to participate. No one can be surprised when this doesn't last, and no one can be surprised that this cannot be the basis for sustainable peace. But hey, I hope I'm wrong. Thank you for listening to this episode of It Could Happen Here. Here's Hoping for Justice and Peace. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, you can now find sources for It Could Happen here, listed directly in Episode Descriptions. Thanks for listening.

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Oh, thanks mom. I love you too.

[Dana El Kurd]

I never said that.

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[Narrator/Reporter (Graves County and Chinatown Sting segments)]

The murder of an 18 year old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host (various ads and promotions)]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

[Narrator/Reporter (Graves County and Chinatown Sting segments)]

Listen to Graves county on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts. In early 1988, federal agents raced to track down the gang they suspect of importing millions of dollars worth of heroin into New York from Asia.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host (various ads and promotions)]

Had 30 agents ready to go with shotguns and rifles and you name it.

[Dana El Kurd]

Five, six white people pushed me in the car.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host (various ads and promotions)]

I'm going, what the hell? Basically your stay at home moms were picking up these large amounts of heroin. All you gotta do is receive the package. Don't have to open it, just accept it. She was very upset, crying once I saw the gun, I tried to take his hand and I saw the flash of light.

[Narrator/Reporter (Graves County and Chinatown Sting segments)]

Listen to the Chinatown sting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or anywhere you get your Podcasts.

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[Dana El Kurd]

We'll also be doing a full episode.

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Reading with commentary, and we'll cap it off with a horror movie Battle Royale. Open your free iHeartRadio app and search Trap Nerds podcast and listen. Now.

[Dana El Kurd]

This is an iHeart podcast.