Executive Disorder: California Elections, SCOTUS Approves GOP Map, Greg Bovino Update

Summary

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It Could Happen Here – Ep. “Executive Disorder: California Elections, SCOTUS Approves GOP Map, Greg Bovino Update”

Date: June 5, 2026
Host(s): Robert Evans, Garrison Davis, Sophie Lichterman, James Stout, Miranda, Mia Wong
Main Theme:
A turbulent week in American politics and society, from absurd California elections to devastating Supreme Court decisions and bureaucratic attacks on the very fabric of science and civil rights. The hosts dissect the political farce, chilling legal maneuvers, and openly fascist rhetoric forming the current climate of collapse.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Intellectual Property & Corporate Lawsuits

[02:04 – 09:13]

• Patagonia vs. Patty Gonier: Patagonia, the outdoor apparel brand, is suing drag performer Win Wiley (Patty Gonier) over trademark issues. The drag persona’s merch closely resembles the corporate logo, leading to claims of brand confusion.
  • “Is it okay for a company that grosses $1.4 billion a year to own the rights to a skyline?” (Robert Evans, 04:48)
  • The hosts reflect on the violence and absurdity of intellectual property law, its role in global inequality, and its destructive reach.
  • Vicky Osterweil’s The Extended Universe recommended for context on Disney’s role in expanding IP regimes.
  • “There are a lot of people dead right now because a bunch of corporations get to hold patents on vaccines. Or insulin.” (Miranda, 08:16)

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2. Ongoing Conflicts & Refugee Policies

[09:13 – 16:39]

• Warfare Updates: News that an F15E pilot was shot down twice—once over Iran and once over Kuwait, raising concerns about U.S. air combat policy and available personnel.
• Refugee Selectivity: Senator Marco Rubio justifies favoring South African (Afrikaner) refugees on grounds of “assimilation” over Afghan refugees.
  • “It’s not about vetting... it’s specifically about people who can 'assimilate'.” (Robert Evans, 12:33)
  • Hosts break down the racial and class undertones of “assimilation” as a policy tool.
• Medicaid Work Requirements: Looming requirement for millions on Medicaid (80 hours/month of work, volunteering, or study)—expected to hit disabled and trans communities especially hard.
  • “This will kill people. Just the fuck-ups in the bureaucracy... will kill people.” (Robert Evans, 15:04)

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3. National Security & Foreign Affairs

[16:39 – 18:49]

• Trump Administration Updates: Trump signs executive order on AI/cybersecurity; Tulsi Gabbard resigns as DNI, replaced by loyalist Bill Pulte, raising red flags even for GOP Senators.
  • “We don’t need a weaponized DNI, we need professionals there...” (Senate Majority Leader John Thune quoted by Garrison, 16:39)
• Iran Regional War: Iran fires on U.S. facilities and commercial shipping; no diplomatic progress as Israel refuses to halt attacks on Lebanon.
  • “This war is now becoming very much a regional thing... going to have long-term economic consequences for the whole world.” (Robert Evans, 17:35)
• Chinese Arms to Iran: Reports suggest China provided Iran with man-portable air defense systems, further souring US–China relations.

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4. California Election Chaos

[22:46 – 41:14]

• LA Mayoral Race (Spencer Pratt Disaster):
  • Spencer Pratt, reality TV personality with public displays of erratic, toxic behavior (multiple audio clips [24:55-28:52]), surges in the mayoral primary, using viral AI-generated attack ads and leveraging his notoriety.
  • “That's the kind of stuff he's sharing. The weird, rogue, no-qualification political candidate thing is working.” (Sophie Lichterman, 33:01)
  • Pratt’s posturing capitalizes on dissatisfaction with moderate Democrats like Karen Bass.
• Voter Apathy & Turnout:
  • LA’s population ~9.69 million but candidate vote totals strikingly low (e.g., only ~278,000 for Bass in 2022).
    • “Most people are fairly confident LA is not going to have a good mayor.” (James Stout, 35:34)
• Statewide Races & Ballot Measures:
  • Low enthusiasm across a wide gubernatorial field; Republican Steve Hilton leads.
  • San Diego Measure A (second homes tax) is defeated—seen as emblematic of cross-class alliances fueled by collapse in trust in city governments (“giving them any more money would [not] result in better outcomes for people,” James Stout, 40:29).
  • Progressive wins like Sam Forstag in Montana’s primary noted as rare “green shoots.”

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5. Supreme Court Kills VRA Enforcement

[42:18 – 51:51]

• Alabama Redistricting:
  • Supreme Court overturns a lower court order requiring a map with two Black-majority districts, greenlighting the use of a GOP-drawn, racially gerrymandered map (unsigned, shadow docket).
  • “SCOTUS is basically saying... just because [lawmakers] pass a discriminatory map knowing it’s discriminatory, that does not qualify as intent.” (Garrison, 47:10)
  • “The macro level implication is that the Voting Rights Act is unenforceable.” (Miranda, 47:10)
  • Dissent highlights the “death of any semblance of multiracial democracy.”
  • “Arguably the death of multiracial, like any semblance of multiracial democracy in the US, which is not great.” (Miranda, 47:39)

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6. Destruction of US Federal Science & Social Services

[54:52 – 63:05]

• OMB Grant Rule Change:
  • Proposed Office of Management and Budget rule would eliminate independent, peer-reviewed science grants, replacing them with single political appointee approvers.
    • “Instead of scientific peer review... it’s now political appointees—specifically Trump administration political appointees.” (Miranda, 56:13)
  • Broader Impact: Applies to all grants, not just science—potentially affecting Medicaid, disaster aid, etc.
    • “This is the death of American science.” (Miranda, 59:52)
  • Political appointees would have power to retroactively terminate existing grants and block international scientific collaboration.
  • Public comment on the proposed rule closes July 7th; Dems unlikely to stop without drastic moves.

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7. Update: Greg Bovino, Border Patrol & Far-Right Remigration Rhetoric

[63:05 – 74:49]

• Greg Bovino (former Border Patrol chief) appears at a European “remigration” conference, aligning himself with openly fascist leaders and advocating for racially-based deportation and demographic “cleansing.”
  • “It is very explicitly about undocumented, documented, and naturalized people... It is explicitly racial.” (Robert Evans, 64:05)
  • Compares the Border Patrol to an “internal Marine Corps” capable of mass deportation and crowd suppression—linking the militarization of the agency directly to far-right fantasies.
  • Advocates for deporting up to “100 million illegal aliens,” justifying via unhinged “commuting time” metrics and openly conspiratorial logic (“This is what fascism does. It blames all the problems of the chosen group on the scapegoat group.” Robert Evans, 73:43)
• Hosts underline the chilling ramifications of having such figures shape federal enforcement—this is not just online posturing, but ideology now at the top of America’s enforcement ladder.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

“Is it okay for a company that grosses $1.4 billion a year to own the rights to a skyline? I think we should be asking that.”
— Robert Evans [04:48]

“There are a lot of people dead because a bunch of corporations get to hold patents on vaccines. Or insulin. This is a kind of silly case but the violence of the intellectual property system is very real.”
— Miranda [08:16]

“It’s not about vetting. It’s specifically about people who can ‘assimilate’.”
— Robert Evans, on refugee policy [12:33]

“This will kill people. Just the fuck-ups in the bureaucracy, even if people are able to find the work... delays will kill people.”
— Robert Evans, on Medicaid work requirements [15:04]

“That weird, rogue, no-qualification political candidate thing is working... People are like, we need a change.”
— Sophie Lichterman, on Spencer Pratt [33:01]

“The macro level implication... is that the Voting Rights Act is unenforceable.”
— Miranda [47:10]

“This is the death of American science. Almost all science in the US is done off government grants... This changes everything.”
— Miranda [59:52]

“It is very explicitly... racial. It is about race, ethnicity, religion, and ‘national purity’... this is straight up Nazi shit.”
— Robert Evans, on the remigration conference [64:05]

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Important Timestamps

• [02:04] Patagonia v. Patty Gonier IP lawsuit
• [09:13] F15E pilot shot down; intellectual property system critique
• [11:00] Senator Rubio on “assimilation” and Afrikaner refugees
• [14:26] Medicaid work/volunteering requirements impact
• [16:39] Executive order on AI; DNI changes
• [17:35] Iran regional war escalation & Chinese arms
• [22:46] LA elections: Spencer Pratt meltdown
• [33:01] Pratt’s fundraising prowess, AI campaign ads
• [34:27] LA voter engagement & mayoral field apathy
• [40:29] San Diego politics: progressive distrust of city government
• [42:18] Supreme Court ruling destroys VRA Section 2 enforcement
• [47:10] The “death of multiracial democracy” — SCOTUS consequences
• [54:52] OMB grant rule and the “death of American science”
• [59:52] All federal grants, not just science, affected
• [63:05] Greg Bovino, remigration, and the fascist Border Patrol vision
• [70:55] 100 million “illegal aliens” rhetoric—collapse of logic
• [73:43] Scapegoating and the fascist core in US policy

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Tone & Style

The episode combines irreverent humor, gallows wit, and a relentless critical stance toward authority and power, matching the “chronicle of collapse” ethos advertised. Moments of laughter and absurdity (over the spectacle of American reality TV personalities running for office) are sharply contrasted with detailed, sometimes devastating analysis of legal and policy moves with life-or-death stakes. The hosts’ language is blunt, informed, and passionate—and frequently profane.

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In Short

A must-listen for anyone trying to keep up with the accelerating machinery of collapse: from the spectacular farce of celebrity politics, to grim bureaucratic coups over science and social programs, to the open dismantling of civil rights, It Could Happen Here delivers clarity, catharsis, and the tools to recognize our moment.

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Transcript

[Robert Evans]

This is an I heart podcast.

[Jenny Garth]

Guaranteed human.

This is Jenny Garth from I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. History is full of mysteries, like how people ever survive before modern laundry detergent. Luckily, Tide's here with boosted stain fighting for cleaner, whiter, brighter and fresher. Laundry versus Tide. Simply no wonder it was America's number one detergent in sales last year. If it's gotta be clean it, it's got to be Tide. Tide is a proud sponsor of the Elton John Impact Awards, honoring those who have helped shape a more inclusive and compassionate world with their artistry, advocacy, and unwavering commitment to equality. You won't want to miss the Elton John Impact Awards podcast, available on June 1st on the iHeartRadio app. And everywhere podcasts are heard.

[Nick Jonas]

Number one hits, millions of records sold, awards, sold out tours. You think the Jonas Brothers are satisfied?

[Sophie Lichterman]

Nope.

[Nick Jonas]

It's podcast time.

[Robert Evans]

We get to ask other people questions

[James Stout]

because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.

[Nick Jonas]

Hey, Jonas is available now. And their first guest is a big one, Paul Rudd.

[Robert Evans]

You know, Steve Carell is a great singer. Can he tell you not to audition

[Garrison Davis]

at the office or something?

[Robert Evans]

I told him, whoa, we were filming Anchorman. Clearly, I was the idiot. Thank God he didn't listen to me, right?

[Nick Jonas]

Listen to hey, Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Call Zone Media.

[James Stout]

Welcome back to Executive Dysfunction here.

[Robert Evans]

Nope.

[James Stout]

No. Is that all right, Garrison? I thought we were. That was pretty close.

[Garrison Davis]

There's another, like, show or column called Executive Dysfunction now.

[James Stout]

Oh, is there? Yep. Sons of bitches. They stole it from us.

[Garrison Davis]

That covers, like, legal issues relating to the Trump administration, so.

[Robert Evans]

Okay, well, that brings us neatly into our first story.

[Garrison Davis]

This is a good happen here. Executive Disorder, our weekly newscast covering what's happening, the White House, the crumbling world, and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis. Today joined by by James Stout, Robert Evans, Mia Wong, and Sophie Lichterman. We're covering the week of May 27 to June 3.

[Robert Evans]

Let's talk about intellectual property lawsuits.

[Garrison Davis]

Let's.

[Robert Evans]

Right, right off the bat, anyone who is in any capacity using Ed, you're on notice. It's going to be us against the Viagra people. I'm talking today about Patagonia, the brand suing Patagonia, the drag queen. God damn it.

[Sophie Lichterman]

This is.

[Robert Evans]

God damn it. Yeah. I've successfully walked you into my little world. This is a situation very reminiscent of People remember the north faces lawsuit against the South Butt.

[James Stout]

Yes, I would argue it's actually kind of different, but okay, I get what you're saying.

[Robert Evans]

The South Butt lawsuit was funny. If people aren't familiar, it's really funny. They were bound to arbitration, they arbitrated, they settled, and then the guy turned around and launched the butt face, like, a few weeks later, and they sued him again.

[James Stout]

That was a beautiful case of somebody trying to troll a company and also, like, trolling the concept of, like, intellectual property laws in, like, a really creative way. Which is. Which is different from what's happening.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Yes. What is happening here is that Win Wiley, whose drag Persona is Patty Gonier. Right. Does a lot of fundraising for outdoors causes, environmental causes, public lands, that kind of thing, has attempted to trademark their use of Patagonia for clothing. Patagonia is suing Wiley to protect its trademark on its logo. Because some of the logos that Patagonia has used are very obviously like. They're mirrored Patagonia logos.

[James Stout]

Yeah. She's trying to get a trademark for her Patagonia logo, which is just Patagonia instead of Patagonia in the company logo for Patagonia.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. I'm not sure. She tried to try to trademark, like, the. It's a Sarah Fitzroy. Right. Like, it's a mountainscape or she just tried to trademark Patagonia.

[James Stout]

It looked like it. Well, I'll double check that right now.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Because I think what she has offered as a settlement right now is to stop using the logo but to continue using the name.

[James Stout]

Yeah. The second is whether Patagonia should be entitled to trademark registration and at least they have a picture in the trademark application of her Patagonia logo.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Miranda]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

And they've claimed it's confusingly similar.

[James Stout]

Yeah. And you made a good point when we were talking about this earlier, James, that I hadn't thought of, because you are better mind than I am in this way, which is that. Because my initial thinking on this was, like, when I saw that she was trying to trademark just like her version of the Patagonia logo, I was like, well, you just took their logo and put your name on, like, that is fucked up. But you pointed out, well Patagonia's logo includes this, like, actual mountain range that she includes, and Patagonia doesn't really have the right to trademark the silhouette of a mountain range. It is a little more nuanced than I thought initially. Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. There are a couple of things at stake here that people perhaps don't understand.

[James Stout]

One, like, I'm at a moral level, not a legal one, folks, but, you

[Robert Evans]

know, but, yeah, morally, I think we should Be asking the question, is it okay for a company that grosses 1.4 billion a year to own the rights to a skyline? Like, I think we should be asking that. I think also, like, people maybe should look a little bit deeper into. I've written about this a bunch in a bunch of outlets, but, like, Patagonia has millions of dollars of military contracts that they don't like to talk about, and they did through a different company called Lost Arrow. And, like, people just need to stop seeing a giant company like this as woke. That's like, the companies ain't going to save us. Sustainable shorts aren't going to save us. Like, buying a fancy fleece is not the way that you're going to make the better world that you want to live in. That's my take.

[James Stout]

Yeah. I feel like Patty was kind of poking the bear here 100%, like, in a massive way. Really?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, clearly she knew what she was going for here.

[James Stout]

Yeah. And Patagoni clearly doesn't want to be fighting this lawsuit.

[Garrison Davis]

Where are you seeing this stuff? Is this like a blue sky news story? Where are you seeing this?

[James Stout]

No, this is like a big.

[Robert Evans]

This is.

[James Stout]

I came into it. I saw it first on Red, but it's also just been pushed into my newsfeed. Like, I've never heard of four or five different articles. It's a big story right now, unfortunately.

[Robert Evans]

I followed her, just generally been aware of her for probably six or seven years.

[Garrison Davis]

Six, seven.

[James Stout]

The New York Times has a feature that's just on this right now. It's a sizable tale.

[Garrison Davis]

Interesting.

[Robert Evans]

I did note that most of her merch is sold out, so the strikes in effect, it's in full force here. And, like, if you wanted to find a way to sell as many Patagonia stickers that look like the Patagonia logo as possible, you would sue her.

[James Stout]

This is the way to do it. Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

They're suing her for $1 plus legal fees. People don't seem to have grasped that. Doesn't mean that all that is at stake is a bug here. The fees will be very substantial.

[James Stout]

Yes.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[James Stout]

Although the fees will be substantial. That said, this is clearly a fight Patty wanted to have. So, like, I am not in a situation where I feel particularly angry or disturbed about this lawsuit. Like, this is something that any company would have done some version this in response.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[James Stout]

It's not good that Patagonia's doing this. It's just what any corporation would do that has a fiduciary duty to its shareholders. And that shouldn't change your opinion of Patagonia from what it was previously, but your opinion of Patagonia should never have been that. It's like an altruistic entity.

[Robert Evans]

Right? Yeah. 2% of its shares are held by its Purpose Trust, which are all the voting shares, and 98% of its shares are held by the Holdfast Collective, which is a 501C4. So, like, I think people see that as like, you know, they'd like to say that Earth is our only shareholder, but like the, the Purpose Trust is, as you say, Robert, duty bound to make a profit to give to the C4. This is not the same thing as, like, activism. It's different. It's a company. It's a company that has to make profit, like you said, Robert. And I think people need to grasp that. Yes.

[James Stout]

And if they, I mean, literally, if they were not. If they were to not fight what she's doing here, like, this could cause serious issues for them.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. I think someone tried to put their logo on a gun or. I've, I've heard. I couldn't find reporting on this, but a couple of people have mentioned it to me and obviously they'd sued about that and they go, you know, so if they didn't, if they hadn't done this one, they couldn't do that. Right.

[James Stout]

And it's. Again, this should not. I'm not. You shouldn't be like, well, Patagonia's in the right and. But also you shouldn't be like, wow, I've completely changed my opinion about this company, you know.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah. It's just that they're doing what they do.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Miranda]

I think the underlying structural thing here, and something we've talked about on this show at some length, is just the underlying violence of the intellectual property system. Like, irrespective of this case, this is a kind of silly case of it, but there are a lot of people in the world who are dead right now because a bunch of corporations get to hold patents on vaccines, for example.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Or insulin.

[Miranda]

This has always been an extremely violent regime that is enforced by quite like one of the most powerful international bodies that has ever existed. And yeah, if you want to hear more about this, friend of the show, Vicky Osterweil, released a book called the Extended Universe about how Disney pioneered a whole bunch of this that, yeah, you should read about because the entire system is just pure violence and always has been.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. We have some episodes from years ago that I made about drug IP and evergreening as well.

[Miranda]

Yep.

[Robert Evans]

That's a very good point, Mir. Moving on. We learned this week that the F15E pilot who was shot down over Iran in April had been shot down the week before over Kuwait.

[Sophie Lichterman]

What

[Robert Evans]

horrible, horrible week. Yeah.

[James Stout]

I think you've had a bad week at work.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Miranda]

This person is joining just the list of altimers. Like that guy who got nuked at both Hiroshima and Nagasaki. There's that guy who got sunk on four consecutive ships.

[James Stout]

Is there such thing as a reverse ace? Like, if this guy gets shot down three more times, is he like an anti ace?

[Robert Evans]

If he gets shot down three more times, he ain't gonna be able to reach the controls of the plane. Like he's already compressed his spine so much.

[James Stout]

Yeah, I'm surprised. I didn't think they would let them. I didn't think, period, after getting shot down and ejecting, you would be allowed to fly a plane at all like, that quickly.

[Robert Evans]

No, I. I was not aware that there was a prototype.

[James Stout]

My understanding is you're not normally supposed to, like, I don't think this is how normally things would be done, which kind of suggests that there was, like, they didn't have enough pilots.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, right. It's kind of remarkable that they were able to get him another F15 that quickly, I guess. But, yeah, he probably not flying any more planes for a while.

[James Stout]

I would imagine not.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. I mean, who knows? Maybe. Maybe the F15s are free. I found, et cetera.

[James Stout]

Yeah, it sounds like he's just feeding F15s anti aircraft.

[Robert Evans]

He must. Yeah. The desert gods demand an F15 sacrifice every six days. Marco Rubio in the house has claimed that Africanas we spoke about this first week. Right. They're raising the cap to admit Africanas as refugees. Africanas should be admitted and others not because they, quote, have a high likelihood of assimilation.

[Marco Rubio]

We have gauged that there is real interest from a unique subset who would be interested to coming in the United States and who we assess have a high likelihood of. Of rapid assimilation and success in our society. And hence this program was created. Now, that's not a program that's going to exist in perpetuity. It's a program that's designed to the fact that we are seeing the demand. We are seeing applications from South Africa of people willing to enter the United States. And we think this is a group of potential refugees.

[Jenny Garth]

So our Afghan allies are refugees. They have been vetted. 1100 versus this new 17,000.

[Marco Rubio]

But it's more than just vetting. We're also trying to determine, again, this is the immigration Policy of the United States, like everything we do, has to be geared by the national interest, and it is in our national interest. If we are allowing people to enter our country, be people that can quickly assimilate into society and be successful, why

[Jenny Garth]

can't they assimilate into society?

[Marco Rubio]

A background check.

[Jenny Garth]

They've been to their centers in my district in Queens. They have assimilated and contribute and pay taxes.

[Marco Rubio]

Yeah, but we've already assumed a lot of Afghan refugees, as you said. You have them in your district. We've already assumed a large number in the past. The point is that the general policy has been to limit the entry of refugees from all over the world and then to create the special track because of a unique circumstance in the short term of a high demand from a number of immigrants that we have determined if they pass the vetting and the checking, very quickly assimilate and contribute to our society.

[Robert Evans]

I think it's really interesting. It's one of the more clear elucidations of the way they see immigration that we've had.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Like he said, it's not about vetting. It's not about background checks. It's specifically about people who can, quote, unquote, assimilate.

[Garrison Davis]

I wonder what the economic strata of the African is getting. Getting refugee status are.

[Miranda]

I mean, it's in. In terms of the way the Rubio is looking at it, their economic strata is white, which.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, well, I wonder what. I wonder what their actual economic strata is. That is an interesting aspect.

[Miranda]

Like, South Africa is a place where that maps on very, very cleanly.

[Garrison Davis]

Yes, right.

[James Stout]

Like, that's.

[Miranda]

That's what I'm saying.

[Jenny Garth]

Right.

[Miranda]

Like, it's like, that's what I'm saying. Y. Definitely a lot.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. And I think just having the means to apply for this. Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

I mean, that's.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, clearly. Like Rubio saying, like, he's doing this because there is a demand. Let me tell you. There is a demand all over the world. Like, I. I have seen demand to live in the United States, in every continent on the planet, apart from the ones that are covered in ice. This is as clear as you're going to get to them saying, these folks are white, they're coming to America and we're going to lock out the folks who are not like. I thought it was very interesting to see him go right up to that line. Next, I have Medicaid work requirements. Work study of volunteering requirements of 80 hours a month will be imposed by the 1st of January for the 40 states who expanded the program under The Affordable Care Act. This is according to a notice published today in the Federal Register. Today being Wednesday, this will impact millions of Americans. And the speed at which this is being done will also be very hard for state bureaucracies to keep up with. Right. We, we have less than six months for a massive change. And like the requirement for states to monitor this, it's going to be very difficult for them to retain the stability and pivot to this. And that's going to impact people whether or not they are working. Yeah. Which sucks.

[Miranda]

This is something that like particularly impacts trans people because there are a ton of trans people on Medicaid and a lot of those people are also disabled and that's just been an absolute nightmare for them. If you are in a position where you can hire someone for I think the work, what's the word is like 30 hours a week, I think is the requirement.

[Robert Evans]

80 hours a month is the requirement? Yeah. 80 hours a month, 20ish a week.

[Miranda]

Yeah. Like if you're in a position to just hire someone for that, you should do it. Because that's the difference between these people, like having food and not having food.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. This is a potential. This will kill people. Yeah, just the fuck ups in the bureaucracy, even if people are able to find the work or volunteer or study or whatever, but the delays that that will cause will kill people.

[Miranda]

This is also a thing, by the way, that some unions have historically done like WW has done this, which is like getting people positions to be able to do volunteering. And if that's a thing you can do, you should do this because this is a unfathomable humanitarian crisis for a bunch of the most vulnerable people in the US and yeah, it's real bad.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it's not good at all. I think that is a good point, Mia, that if you're in a place to help people coordinate their volunteering and document that. That was a good point. That's a good thing to start thinking about. Garrison, you got any small things?

[Garrison Davis]

Few more small things. Trump signed an executive order to expand AI cybersecurity capabilities and protections. And last Friday, Tulsi Gabbard resigned as Director of National Intelligence, citing her husband's recent cancer diagnosis. Trump has selected Bill Pulte, head of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, to serve as acting Director of National Intelligence. Pulte is a Trump loyalist with no intelligence background, and even Republican senators don't seem too keen on this choice. Senate Majority Leader John Thune told reporters, quote, well, we don't need a weaponized dni we need professionals there. If he's somebody they want in that position permanently, he's got, as you know, a lengthy road ahead of him.

[Robert Evans]

Let's catch up with the war in Iran. Iran this week hit a commercial vessel with an anti ship cruise missile in the Persian Gulf as well as firing at US Facilities and hitting the international airport in Kuwait. They've killed at least one person there. This comes as talks are continuing to fail to reach a resolution, at least in part because Israel refuses to stop attacking Lebanon and committing war crimes. Axios is reporting that Trump said in a call to Netanyahu, quote, you're fucking crazy. You'd be in prison if it weren't for me. I'm saving your ass. Everybody hates you now. Everybody hates Israel because of this. Sure. In recent days, the IDF has explicitly threatened Beirut and further expanded its ground campaign. Again. Right. Like this war is now becoming very much a regional thing, has been a regional thing since it started. But like the peace deal is also a regional thing. And the fact that Israel refuses to do anything other than exactly what it wants, which seems to be killing more and more people in its neighboring countries, means that it's going to be very hard for this war to come to an end, which is going to have long term economic consequences for the whole world. NBC has also reported, talking of the whole world, that it was a Chinese manpad that shot down the F15E. That's for the second time in April, that such equipment, along with long range radar, was possibly supplied to Iran in the early days of the conflict by China. Obviously this, this makes any kind of detente with the US and China more difficult. Right. And it's not clear if the particular actual manpads man Portable Air Defense System. People aren't familiar if the particular service to MSR used had arrived recently or had been in stockpiles for some time. But it appears that China, at least right before or early on in the conflict, was perhaps supplying some air defenses to Iran. Maybe this can explain just a little bit about how the bombing campaign has been relatively unsuccessful in its objectives in many ways.

[Garrison Davis]

Let's go on a break and then we could talk about the California elections and the Supreme Court.

[George Taveras]

This is George Taveras and Sam Taggart from Stratiolab. Okay, picture it. Your apartment after a Saturday workout. The gym bag, the couch, maybe even the car. Mi amor. It's a full novella of odors and not the glamorous kind.

[Sam Taggart]

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[George Taveras]

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[Sam Taggart]

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[George Taveras]

refresher because home should smell like you. Fabulous fresh, Unforgettable.

[Sam Taggart]

Febreze is a proud sponsor of the Elton John Impact Awards, honoring those who have helped shape a more inclusive and compassionate world with their artistry, advocacy and unwavering commitment to equality.

[George Taveras]

You won't want to miss the Elton John Impact awards podcast, available June 1 on the iHeartRadio app. And everywhere podcasts are heard,

[Robert Evans]

why pay when you can slash with TikTok slash and free? You can cut prices down all the way to zero. Just download TikTok search, slash free, pick items in TikTok shop, share the link, and boom. Free items unlocked even with free shipping. So seriously, why pay? Download TikTok and start slashing now.

[Garrison Davis]

Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called hey Jonas.

[Robert Evans]

We invented a podcast.

[Marco Rubio]

Well, we didn't invent it.

[Robert Evans]

We.

[Garrison Davis]

We just contributed to people to do podcasts. Pretty. Yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts, but this one's extra special. So how do we.

[Robert Evans]

How do we actually come up with the name hey Jonas? Guys, I honestly don't remember.

[Marco Rubio]

I think it was on a call

[James Stout]

about what we should call it and

[Miranda]

well, we were thinking.

[Robert Evans]

I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers was.

[Garrison Davis]

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes, I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing a bit for the podcast.

[Robert Evans]

People could call in and say, hey Jonas.

[Garrison Davis]

And then I wrote down on my little notepad hey Jonas. And offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that.

[Robert Evans]

Guys, listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dan]

Just listen.

[Garrison Davis]

We don't care where you hear it.

[Jenny Garth]

Every story has a point where it's balanced on a knife's edge. That's where we begin. For some, it's a confrontation no parent ever expects. They finally admit we're here to take your children. The department has taken custody and we're here to take your kids.

[Sophie Lichterman]

It was just shock and horror and desperation.

[Jenny Garth]

For others, it's surviving the unthinkable as they're having this gun battle thousands of feet up in the air, many of the bullets start to puncture the aircraft. I thought we were gonna die then. The Knife is a podcast about real people whose lives were upended in an instant. We talk to the people who lived it, unpacking what happened, how they got through it and what came next. And on our off record episodes, we go even deeper into the reporting and answer the questions you can't stop thinking about. New episodes drop every Thursday on the Exactly Right Network and the iHeart Podcast Network. Listen to the Knife on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Garrison Davis]

Ok, Elections in California. Why is California like that? What is going on over there?

[Sophie Lichterman]

It's because I left. It's my fault.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, we're all grieving, Sophie.

[James Stout]

That was the last thing holding it together there.

[Sophie Lichterman]

I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

[Garrison Davis]

Let's start with the LA mayoral race.

[Sophie Lichterman]

I want to talk about it. It's my duty to talk about this. I would like to talk a bit

[Garrison Davis]

about Spencer Pratt, who may may be advancing.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Who may be advancing. That's what I'm saying. At time of recording, which is Wednesday, June 3rd at around 3:30pm Pacific Time, Pratt is currently in second place with 30% of the votes. Bass is at 35% and has already been guaranteed to move forward. And Nithya rahman is in third with 22%. And like I said, there's 60% of the votes counted. So why the fuck is Spencer Pratt, a former reality TV cast member, I'm not even going to give him star running for mayor. Pratt grew up in the Pacific Palisades neighborhood and lived there until the fires happened and he and his parents houses were unfortunately burned down and he started making videos on TikTok, was getting a lot of attention for it and decided that it was his destiny to it was his, according to his website, his mission to run for mayor per his own campaign website. Pratt is a media entrepreneur, questionable outspoken advocate, depends on who you're talking about, and an emerging political leader. He does have a political science degree from usc, I will say that. But he he does claim to be Karen Bass's worst nightmare. Now if you're not a millennial who had television in the late 2000s. You're probably unaware of how unhinged Spencer Pratt is. Here are some highlights.

[James Stout]

Listeners, we apologize for what Sophie's about

[Robert Evans]

to make you experience.

[Garrison Davis]

This is a lot of audio, Sophie.

[Sophie Lichterman]

We need all of it.

[James Stout]

Oh, God.

[Robert Evans]

Oh no.

[James Stout]

Just do it, Garrison. Just do it.

[Miranda]

Are we gonna get copyright strict?

[Sophie Lichterman]

We're. Just do it.

[Garrison Davis]

Just do it for me.

[Spencer Pratt]

That was the best. Like, I was proud of myself for not doing what I wanted to do to you. Cause what I wanted to do and say to you, dear Woo. I didn't. Cause I was praying. Praying like I do every day to not say the things that I want to say to you, to your mom. No, I know I do. I'm not. That's why. Do you see how I'm not saying them? Yeah, I'm very proud of myself.

[Robert Evans]

Like your head's about to explode.

[Spencer Pratt]

So I'm sorry if I disrespected you, but I'm very emotional these days. Very, very. So I say things that I feel.

[Sophie Lichterman]

I was the one that wanted to

[Garrison Davis]

kill anybody that would ever talk like that about myself.

[Robert Evans]

And I still would.

[Sophie Lichterman]

But that goes for my mom too. And as a family, that's how we all should be.

[Spencer Pratt]

Well, I didn't say anything negative about your mom. Your mom is just the vagina that made Heidi come onto earth. Your mom is not Jesus or God or the creator. So why can't I say that? So why can't I say that? Why can't I say that? No, it's not. It's my opinion. It's my opinion. Hey, preacher. Preacher. This isn't Bible study. This is earth. No one's preaching. No one's preaching.

[Garrison Davis]

No one's preaching here.

[Spencer Pratt]

This is life.

[James Stout]

Take a breath.

[Spencer Pratt]

You're not her sister. You're not her friend. You're a liar. And I'm gonna walk away from these lies. Cuz she's gonna sit here and keep lying to you. You're the biggest poser in this town. You know it. You're gonna burn for me.

[Robert Evans]

Stop it.

[Spencer Pratt]

You're gonna burn Spencer. I know, I know.

[Robert Evans]

That's so adamant.

[Spencer Pratt]

No, I know.

[Robert Evans]

She's a. Spencer.

[Spencer Pratt]

Go back to your real estate job, you liar.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Yeah, that was Spencer talking to his sister in law about his mother in law.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, wow.

[Garrison Davis]

But all this is fake. This is all acting like this.

[Sophie Lichterman]

This is.

[Garrison Davis]

I don't.

[Spencer Pratt]

This.

[Garrison Davis]

This doesn't move me at all.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Half of this is not acting.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah. Yes, that is. That is here.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Here he is talking to his own sister.

[Robert Evans]

Okay, okay. Oh no. We've already cataloged this.

[Garrison Davis]

I'm going to leave. But I didn't get to say hi.

[Sophie Lichterman]

How are you guys?

[Robert Evans]

Good. How are you?

[Spencer Pratt]

Excellent. How are you? What are you crying about, 70 crying about? That's why you're not in my life. You crazy. Cuz you come to barbecues and just start crying. I was just enjoying myself with my wife and I get crying sisters in front of me.

[Sophie Lichterman]

She just wanted to say hi, but

[Spencer Pratt]

that gets us crying away. What the do I need to do to you,

[Garrison Davis]

Drama?

[Spencer Pratt]

He just ignored me at the party. What just happened?

[Marco Rubio]

We're over here having a little conversation and then all of a sudden they got people storming out of here and

[Robert Evans]

I can't even talk right now.

[Sophie Lichterman]

I know it's your brother, but he's off his rocker. I don't know what's wrong with him here.

[Spencer Pratt]

I'm talking about my little sister who's not relevant to my life.

[Garrison Davis]

Oh, God. Oh, no.

[James Stout]

Okay.

[Robert Evans]

I like to fade out.

[Sophie Lichterman]

And just to say. Just to say she has told people not to vote for her brother in modern times. Just to say.

[James Stout]

That's shocking. Shocking stuff. Yeah, he seems like he's a even tempered guy.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Yeah. One. One less clip just because I'll. I never want to talk about him again.

[Robert Evans]

So I'm going to go so deep on this.

[Sophie Lichterman]

I am the managing executive producer of this podcast. Let me have this. Thank you.

[Spencer Pratt]

Girl in this club.

[Robert Evans]

Dude, relax, bro.

[Sophie Lichterman]

What the hell is wrong with you?

[Spencer Pratt]

I hate that video. Excuse my French.

[Robert Evans]

Hey, you're crazy.

[Miranda]

You're being a weirdo, bro.

[Spencer Pratt]

You just yelled at me. Very gnarly. I said loudest somebody's yelled in my face in three years.

[Robert Evans]

I'm over it. I don't want to hear anything you have to tell.

[Spencer Pratt]

You're up in my face, dog. Walk away from me before we have a problem. Walk the away.

[Robert Evans]

God.

[Spencer Pratt]

People don't know how dangerous I am. Like, I just really had to, like, hold myself smashing his head off, you know? Like, this is like.

[Garrison Davis]

All right, so this is so. So this is like if like clavicular, like ran for office in like 10 years.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Stout]

20 years.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

And. And you know, it's a reality TV show. You're right. There's parts of it that are scripted. There's parts of it that are enhanced. There's parts of it, but you can't. You can't fake that vein popping out of his head.

[James Stout]

A lot of it's scripted, but you don't get cast, so to speak, to be that kind of character, if you're not already a giant asshole. Right.

[Garrison Davis]

I mean, yeah, it's in some ways less explicitly scripted than like wwe, but you. You fall into certain roles because that's what you are getting paid to. Like, that is your job is contingent on performing this kind of real, not real thing. And I honestly, you know, like, the sort of like. Like IOL streamer thing is a very similar version of that for the contemporary age. And I think so. It really. There was. There was one specific like, like line there that really reminded me of like one of. One of clavicular is like on camera meltdowns and like. Oh, this is really just if. What if you had a guy like that just run for office for like the mayor of whatever city in like 20 years? Yeah, yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Well, I want to talk a little bit about his campaign style. He shared this. This video on X, the Everything app, and it got millions and millions of views with people saying it's the best campaign video of all time. And so we're gonna play it for you now.

[Robert Evans]

This is more of him than I've ever seen.

[Garrison Davis]

This is the Batman one.

[Robert Evans]

I haven't seen this.

[Garrison Davis]

To be clear, he did not make this video.

[Sophie Lichterman]

He did not make this. He shared it and he. He's big on the AI sharing video trend.

[Robert Evans]

Yes.

[Sophie Lichterman]

His website is filled with it.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, there have been a lot of AI videos in the LA race this time.

[Garrison Davis]

There's been a lot of these LA election, like, Batman videos.

[Robert Evans]

Yes.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, let's. I guess let's watch this one.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Sure. Until. Until we get bored with it. Yeah,

[Robert Evans]

Wait, hang on. Let's just. Just break that down.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, I think this makes sense to watch a little bit, then pause and talk.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Stout]

We have to explain first. We start with the entire Hollywood sign of flame.

[Garrison Davis]

And the next thing you see is these. These goons dressed in all black tactical gear with white that says dsa, which is one of the best things I've ever seen. That was my favorite part about this video.

[Robert Evans]

Yes, yes.

[James Stout]

The paramilitary DSA forces in Los Angeles.

[Garrison Davis]

And then it goes into the sort of Dark Knight Rises like courtroom.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Karen Bass in the middle, except Karen

[Garrison Davis]

Bass has Joker makeup.

[Sophie Lichterman]

And Kamala Harris is, I think, drinking alcohol on one side. And that's news.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, yeah. She's like straight from the bottle too. Is that I'll say too.

[James Stout]

I think there's a little bit of District.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Hunger Games.

[James Stout]

Hunger Games. Yeah, The Hunger Games capital in that design too.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Anyway.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

And Gavin Newsom's in like, you know, Like, Yeah. Aristocratic garb.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah, okay, That's Gavin. Okay,

[Sophie Lichterman]

Please, I'm begging you. There's homeless drug addicts in front of the schools. My children aren't safe.

[Marco Rubio]

Look, if you were transgender migrant, I

[Robert Evans]

could get you a free pussy.

[Garrison Davis]

All right?

[Robert Evans]

Wow. Wow.

[Sophie Lichterman]

I know.

[Robert Evans]

Holy shit. Holy. I'm fascinated by what we've got here.

[James Stout]

Amazing.

[Garrison Davis]

James, have you not seen this before?

[Robert Evans]

Absolutely not.

[Miranda]

No, I haven't seen this either.

[Garrison Davis]

I shared this video in our work chat. Like. Like a month and a half. Like.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Yeah.

[Miranda]

Oh, wait, no shit. I have seen it. Oh, God.

[James Stout]

I. I didn't watch it.

[Robert Evans]

I gotta control my exposure to this shit. It's made me very angry. So we now have a marionette of, like, a Latina.

[Garrison Davis]

Okay.

[James Stout]

God, yeah, that makes sense.

[Garrison Davis]

But no, there's, like, DSA people. DSA thugs and tactical gear. Like.

[James Stout]

Yeah. They throw the woman on the ground who's complaining about. Yeah. The homeless, drug addicts. Yeah, I think we're good.

[Garrison Davis]

It's all that kind of good. Like, it's.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Yeah, whatever. There's like, a fake Batman scene. They asked for Spencer. Spencer in a fake Batman costume. Blah, blah, blah.

[Jenny Garth]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

I mean, yeah, Spencer Pratt is Batman. That's what. That's. That's Spencer Pratt's Batman.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Yes. You know, that's the kind of stuff that he's sharing. And, you know, one of the biggest things he's run on is that his house was burned down and he was. Didn't have a place to live. And he claimed that he was living in a trailer on the property where his house used to be. And then it turned out that he was actually not staying in that trailer, but he was staying at the Hotel Bel Air, which is one of the nicest hotels in Los Angeles.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

Oh, yeah, I bet.

[Sophie Lichterman]

And in response to that, he made this video.

[Spencer Pratt]

Now, this is a story all about how my life got flipped, turned upside down. The prince of a town called Bel Air.

[Robert Evans]

Wow.

[James Stout]

Oh, God. Oh, God. I don't wanna. I. I don't want to get me. Get. No, no, no, no. Millions of views.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Millions of views. And.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

And this, like, weird, rogue, no, no qualification, political candidate thing is working. People are like, we need a change. And per the BBC, in terms of fundraising during the race, Pratt has blown away the other 2. He raised $2.7 million between April 19 and May 16. That's nearly 10 times what Bass, a longtime politician raised in the same period, and approximately seven times what Nithya Rahman raised.

[Robert Evans]

I mean, no one likes bast, right? It's the other thing. Right. The Democrats have like doubled down on doing exactly the same shit they've been doing for decade across California.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, it's this like feckless moderate liberalism.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Like carceral libs will be how I describe the Democrats.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Yeah. And just to say, like Nithya Ram did enter the race late and she is far, far left from Karen Bass. So we're seeing that. But the thing that's really interesting to me about this is there's 9.69 million people in LA County. And you know, I, I'm comparing it to what I think will probably be about what it'll be for 2026. But in 2022, you know, Karen Bass got 278,000 votes. Rick Caruso only got 232,000 votes, and Kevin De Leon only got 50,000 votes out of 9.69 million people. That's the amount of people that actually voted in the primary in 2022. And it's. And it's looking to be very similar for 2026.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

Maybe even a little bit lower. I mean, I agree.

[Sophie Lichterman]

I think it might be a little bit lower.

[Garrison Davis]

That only has 150,000 votes. But he's, he's in second place.

[Sophie Lichterman]

But he's in second place. Yeah.

[James Stout]

Again, this is interesting because you're seeing higher than in a lot of place than average turnout. And I think part of why is just because most people voting know that like with both the California mayor and gubernatorial elections, the likeliest outcome is like someone who isn't the worst possible choice but isn't going to like make things better. Like LA is not going to have a good mayor. Most people are fairly confident of that. And so there's just not a lot of. There's not. I don't think people are very motivated because they feel like what the fuck is the point of caring about this, you know? And I, I don't. I'm not saying that's the right way to look at it. I'm just saying that that's what I think is part of what's going on here.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, like I, I know like just from the discourse around San Diego, like, like people they're tired of being shamed into vote for like some mediocre ass candidate who will just give all their money to the cops like the last five mayors have done.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Yeah, we're gonna keep seeing these kind of candidates. It's gonna become a regular thing. We even have, you know, Jersey Shore star Mike the Situation, Sorrentino saying he's thinking about running for New Jersey governor. I hate this trend. This trend sucks. And in the the words of Lauren Conrad, he's a sucky person. He's a sucky person. I hate Spencer. I'm never gonna like Spencer. Please don't make him your mayor. Los Angeles. Do better. He's awful. He's horrific. He hates unhoused people. Terrible person. No.

[Nick Jonas]

Bad.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Shame. I'm done. I hope to never have to talk about this person ever again.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

So in case people don't know that the two top winners of the LA mayoral primary advance to a runoff. So Bass is going to be there. She is. She is in the lead. And right now it is between Pratt and Ramon. And Pratt's lead in second place has been sliding as more and more votes come in, but as of Wednesday afternoon, he's still in second. As for governor.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

Steve Hilton, Republican, is in the number one spot with 1.3, almost 1.4 million votes as of Wednesday afternoon. Sarah's in number two with 25% of the vote. Tom Steyer is in number three with almost 20% of the vote. And this is about 55% of the vote in. Becerro is a former Biden cabinet member, Health and Human Services secretary.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

So more of kind of moderate liberal. Stier Steyer, the more progressive candidate, but it seems because he is a billionaire, that did in some ways affect like, enthusiasm to vote for him. On the Democratic side.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

There's another Republican candidate who's in fourth place with over half a million votes.

[Sophie Lichterman]

But again, the amount of votes that are actually happening compared to the amount of people is insane. It's so low.

[James Stout]

Yeah, it's really bad.

[Robert Evans]

There's a massive field of candidates, but no one really captured the imagination of people here. No one was enthusiastic for this.

[James Stout]

No.

[Robert Evans]

I guess I can cover a couple of small San Diego things quickly. San Diego measure A, measure A was a tax on second homes, defined as unoccupied for the majority of the year.

[Garrison Davis]

Eat a tear.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Looks like it's going down the nation.

[Garrison Davis]

Oh, it's not soup.

[Sam Taggart]

Sorry.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Unfortunately not like it's. I mean, there is nothing that unites San Diegans more than hating tourists. But I think you have this interesting alliance of like boomer homeowners thinking this will mess with their property prices and generally not wanting to pay taxes. Yeah. And people who understand that any money we give to our city is just going to go directly to the cops.

[Garrison Davis]

Where do you get that idea from that. That is a sentiment among the people who voted for this, like, is this like demonstrated anywhere?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, like if you go, if you look on social media, right. Like let's say San Diego next door, Reddit, etc. Right. OK then from meetings, like we've had discussions within unions. I'm part of like. So if you look at what our city is doing right now, it's slashing the arts budget, it's slashing the park's budget. Yeah, it's slashing everything apart from the police budget, which is continuing to increase. Right. Most notably in San Diego, they have started to try and charge for parking at the park and at the beach and on major thoroughfares, which like charging San Diegans to go to the beach is the most radicalizing thing that any politician could ever do. It's incredible. Incredibly stupid as a revenue generating measure. Like people have, people have vandalized parking machines in very bougie neighborhoods because this is just like so offensive to people. And I think there's like a, just a growing disgust with a mayor and then like the idea that giving them any more money would result in better outcomes for people just isn't going to fly anymore, if that makes sense. Like they've, they've done all these revenue generating measures.

[Garrison Davis]

It's, it's like a loss, loss in faith that any revenue will actually just go towards improving their like, standard of living.

[Robert Evans]

Our city spent I think 100 million on a building filled with asbestos, which is worth less money than the land would be if the building wasn't on it. And from years and years tried to kind of play political football with the fact that they bought a cancer tower. Like, yeah, there's a reason that San Diego is sometimes referred to as Enron by the sea. And I think folks are, folks are kind of having enough of it. They're reissuing under the perfect sun. For folks who want to read more about San Diego politics, this sort of

[Garrison Davis]

like alliance between like small capital, you know, people who don't want to pay for attacks on the second home. That alliance with people who've like lost faith in city services. Right. Who are going to oppose funding because they don't think it's actually like worthwhile. That's an interesting coalition of the modern moment.

[Robert Evans]

Right? Yeah, yeah. And it's definitely like a creation of like specifically in California. Right. This idea that we don't get to choose to, basically we're going to get a Democrat and that Democrat will just do whatever they want. It's made that position very appealing to people. I guess. Moving on from California, I do want to mention just briefly that Sam Forstag won the Democrat primary for Montana's House district. This is really interesting. He's a progressive union organizer. He used to be a smoke jumper, Forest Service firefighter. He is one of those folks who was like, like, I guess his entry into national politics came from Doge. Doge was cutting all these guys like GS2 people. Right. People, people at the Forest Service, people at these big public lands management agencies who are making barely making a living.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

And who have struggled for a long time in places like Bozeman. Right. Where second homeowners have driven up the prices significantly. That sort of pathway to progressive politics is one that's very interesting to me and one I want to do a lot more reporting on. But I thought it was a positive sign to see see him winning that primary.

[Garrison Davis]

Speaking of elections, before we go on break, I do want to talk about the Supreme Court following up on a story from last week. Last week, our final segment on the show was on the five year battle in Alabama over two different House maps, or technically three. But the Republican ones were very similar. It was about these Republican drawn maps that have only one black majority district and a court ordered map that has two following the Supreme Court's weakening of Section 2 of the Voting Rights act earlier this year. Late last month, a federal district court ruled that the GOP drawn map in Alabama intentionally discriminated based on race and diluted the voting power of black Alabamans. So they placed an injunction on that map and ordered the state to use the court approved map that was already in use in previous elections for the upcoming primaries. This ruling was appealed to the Supreme Court who on Tuesday night overruled the district court issuing a four page unsigned signed shadow docket ruling allowing Alabama to use the GOP map that eliminates a black majority or a black opportunity District Supreme Court said that the state is likely to succeed on the merits of its claims. Quote, at this preliminary stage, the state has shown that it is entitled to interim relief from the district court's injunction, unquote. So this is the first time the Supreme Court has evaluated another court's interpretation of their Louisiana ruling. And in this case, the Supreme Court is saying the district court got it wrong in the updated rules for section 2 as a part of the Louisiana ruling. In order to succeed in arguing a Section 2 violation, plaintiffs have to submit an alternative map that must, quote, meet all the state's legitimate districting objectives, just as well as the state's own map, including quote, unquote. The state's specified political goals and any other goal not prohibited by the Constitution.

[Miranda]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

So the alternative map that plaintiffs need to submit when challenging a map based on section 2 has to have the same, like, partisan goals represented is, is what these updated rules. In the Louisiana ruling stead and Supreme Court said that this was not followed by by the district court's ruling. Section two challenges must also, quote, provide an analysis that controls for party affiliation and, quote, show that voters engage in racial block voting that cannot be explained by partisan affiliation, unquote. So basically, the Supreme Court claimed that the district court ordered map fails to do all this by not maintaining the state's, quote, constitutionally permissible community of interest on the Gulf coast by cutting into a section of the Gulf coast in the Black opportunity district, also failing to avoid contests between incumbents. The Supreme Court said that the district court's ruling, quote, unquote, departed from the updated standards set in the Louisiana ruling, quote. As to intentional vote dilution, the district court did not heed the presumption of legislative good faith because it interpreted the state's legal disagreement with the court's earlier remedial order as proof of discriminatory animus, unquote. SCOTUS is basically saying that just because it was definitively demonstrated to Alabama Republicans that their map had a discriminatory effect and then they pass it anyway, that itself does not qualify as intent. So showing, quote, unquote, intent is effectively impossible, like, at this point, because maps can be sliced up like crazy and they can just do that based on party. And this is what the Supreme Court is saying, quote, the district court also failed to follow our instructions that the mere fact that voters of different races vote for different parties is not relevant to proving racially polarized voting patterns, unquote. And this was specifically the thing I was most curious about is if, if this idea that the district court, you know, wrote, if this idea that showing someone that their map is doing discrimination, if you show someone that and then they pass it anyway, does that, does that prove that that person then had intent because they knew it was discriminatory and the Supreme Court is saying, no, that does not. That does not actually show intent, that is the main way that the Supreme Court has has overruled the district court ruling. If they also argue that the district court meddled in the state election too close to the primary, even though it's actually the Supreme Court ruling that is green lighting this redistricting midway through the primary process. But that's kind of the added on at the very end of the, of the four page unsigned shadow docket ruling.

[Miranda]

The, the macro level implication of this is that the Voting Rights act is unenforceable. Like the, the parts of the Voting Rights act that are supposed to protect from literally this specific thing, this specific thing of intentionally diluting black people's votes so that they can't elect candidates was the Jim Crow practice at this part of, of the Voting Rights act was specifically designed to do. And you can't do that anymore. It is just the Supreme Court has decided that this part of the Voting Rights act doesn't exist.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[Miranda]

And they've decided this because they want to like, they want to do racist gerrymandering so Republicans can win elections. And that's, I don't know, I mean, like arguably the death of multiracial, like any semblance of multiracial democracy in the US which is not great.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Miranda]

I don't know. It's, it's really, really bad.

[James Stout]

Yeah. I mean it's, it's, it's what they've been working for for decades. Right. It's what Yarvin's always talking about. Right. It's repealing the 20th century. You know, like that's, that has been the goal for a very. And they see this as one of the most important steps towards doing that.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, this is pretty devastating.

[Garrison Davis]

I think there is a way to do, I think some more in depth analysis like on this topic that might have to be in the future.

[Miranda]

Yeah. I mean I did a full episode on this like a couple weeks ago.

[Garrison Davis]

I mean, specifically the way that the interpretation in the shadow docket ruling, how it clarifies certain things, like you know, just because statistically different races may vote for different parties, that does not actually prove racially polarized voting pattern. Like there's, there's certain things here that we can do a lot more analysis of. And like in terms of proving intent, a lot of states don't even need to do like mustache twirling. I'm going to look at race maps and draw it based on race maps. They can just draw based on party affiliation. And that is going to get the party the actual effect.

[James Stout]

Right.

[Garrison Davis]

Because these maps are, are passed by the party that's in control of the state legislature and they want to maintain power with their party. So that's going to be the most effective way to do that. And if they just do that, then there's leaves very little ground for these maps to be challenged on any sorts of racial grounds, even if there is racial discrimination as an effect. Right. And this. This was the. The biggest change of the Supreme Court ruling in Louisiana. It was Alito.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[Garrison Davis]

Who. Who technically wrote that one.

[Miranda]

Yeah, yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

But being like. Like, we are in a different place. We are in a different social. Social place now than when the Voting Rights act was passed. And so therefore, we are going to update these rules accordingly. Even though literally, you know, three years ago, the Supreme Court was ruling in the opposite way in Alabama in a very similar situation, the change in those few years is very stark. And this is all goes downstream from the ruling in 2019 that specifically allows partisan gerrymandering because there's no law in the United States disallowing that. So, like, the Supreme Court is like, we cannot make a new law by saying this isn't allowed because there's just no law on the books. So if the legislation wants to pass laws against that, then they can, but we cannot disallow partisan gerrymandering in the courts, effectively, because there's no law preventing it.

[Miranda]

Yeah. And it's worth keeping in mind that the. The specific standard in the Voting Rights act literally says effects, which was specifically an effects based test and not an interpretation or not a proving intent test. And the Supreme Court was just like, no, fuck you. So that's sort of just where we are now legally, is that they're just making up what they think the test should be and making everyone else follow that.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, I mean, three justices did dissent in this recent ruling. Sort of more Kagan and Jackson. They wrote, quote, before the court are two paths down One lies an orderly election held under a tried and tested congressional map that protects black Alabama's right to vote and with which all voters, election officials and candidates alike are familiar. Down the other lies a chaotic election held under a never before used congressional map that intentionally discriminates against black Alabamans that Alabama adopted in unabashed defiance of a prior court order directly affirmed by this court and that will require officials to change the voter registrations of hundreds of thousands of voters in just days at best, a task Alabama previously represented would take months. The majority chooses the second path and disregards both democratic values and the rule of law. I respectfully dissent. We'll go on a break now and conclude with one more. One more section of this.

[George Taveras]

This is George Taveras and Sam Taggart from Stradiolab. Okay, picture it. Your apartment after a Saturday workout. The gym bag, the couch, maybe even the car. Mi amor. It's a full novella of odors and not the glamorous kind.

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[George Taveras]

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[Jenny Garth]

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[Nick Jonas]

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[Sophie Lichterman]

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[Robert Evans]

We get to ask other people questions

[James Stout]

cause we're sick and tired of being asked questions.

[Nick Jonas]

Hey Jonas is available now and their first guest is a big one, Paul Rudd.

[Robert Evans]

You know Steve Carell is a great singer. Didn't he tell you not to audition

[Garrison Davis]

at the office or something?

[Robert Evans]

I told him, whoa. We were filming Anchorman. Clearly I was the idiot. Thank God he didn't listen to me, right?

[Nick Jonas]

Listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jenny Garth]

Every story has a point where it's balanced on a knife's edge. That's where we begin. For some, it's a confront parent ever expects. They finally admit we're here to take your children. The department has taken custody and we're here to take your kids.

[Sophie Lichterman]

It was just shock and horror and desperation.

[Jenny Garth]

For others, it's surviving the unthinkable as they're having this gun battle thousands of feet up in the air, many of

[Garrison Davis]

the boats start to puncture the aircraft.

[Jenny Garth]

I thought we were going to die then. The Knife is a podcast about real people, people whose lives were upended in an instant. We talked to the people who lived it Unpacking what happened, how they got through it and what came next. And on our off record episodes, we go even deeper into the reporting and answer the questions you can't stop thinking about. New episodes drop every Thursday on the Exactly Right Network and the iHeart Podcast Network. Listen to the Knife on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Miranda]

And we are back. So, all right, we need to talk about a fairly obscure bureaucratic rule change that is being rushed out by the Office of Management and Budget omb, which is where it's the like management bureaucracy office that's currently headed by like one of the guys who wrote Project 2025. This change that they are proposing right now is effectively the formalization of all of the sort of DOGE cuts and then sort of post DOGE departmental cuts of grants from the US Government. The way this is largely being covered right now, and I understand why we're going to run through that one first, is that this is effectively the death of American science. Because one of, one of the things that this does, it's like a 400 page document. One of the early sections of it is that instead of the current system where grants for scientific projects go before a peer review committee of scientists that are usually independent, and then those scientists give their recommendations to the department on whether or not this is a good use of funds and then the department executes those recommendations. Right?

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[Miranda]

So grants, grants are determined by scientific, by a scientific peer review process. This kills that and says that instead of the way that it has worked, which is that agencies adopt the recommendations of it, this has not been how it works formally. Like it hasn't been a legal stipulation that this is how it works, but this is just literally how all science has worked since World War II, basically, with the exception of the McCarthy era, is that these independent committees do the review of the grant and then the federal agencies submit the grants. Instead of that, the heads of federal agencies will appoint one person who will individually look through every single grant and approve or deny them. So this is, this is the formalization of the DOGE process. This is the administration basically centralizing control of the entire scientific grant process. And this actually turns out, out, it turns out is for all grants, which we'll get to in a second. But what, what this means is that instead of again, like scientific peer review being the thing that decides what science gets funding, it's now political appointees and specifically Trump administration political appointees. There are a whole in, in this ruling, there are A whole bunch of. Absolutely. Or not this ruling, the, the proposed change there is just a bunch of just absolutely unhinged screeds about the U.S. anti AIDS programs turning into woke left mobs in Africa that support like gender politics and stuff. I sound very incoherent explaining that. I, I swear to God I am more coherent than actually reading out the quote. It's just, it's completely unhinged, like weird right wing conspiracy stuff for like half of it and half of it is like extremely technical budget change stuff.

[Garrison Davis]

I know that in the Doge stuff this has been talking about like you know, sexual health clinics in like a country in Africa that's supported by the US Government, right?

[Miranda]

Yeah, yeah, they're, they're, they're, they're pulling all these examples and then just like screaming stuff about how they're like abortion centers and you know, like doing like genital mutilation or whatever. There's been some good reporting on this by Elizabeth Genexi, who used to do like program reviews for, for the NIH before a lot of things, including this administration took over. This is effectively the centralization of all of the grants given out by the US government. Right. If you remember, if we think back to like the early days of doge, right, you'd find these giant lists of grants that they'd gone through and just cut. And they had absolutely no legal authority to do that. They just did it. This is the formalization of that process, right? This is setting up the bureaucratic apparatus to allow just, just one random griper they've like hired and stashed off at a room in like the NIH or something to just go through and cut whatever grants they want. They also have the power to terminate grants that have already been given out at will. There's other even weirder things where they're also very paranoid about like scientific collaboration with other countries, which is just the basis of how all science is done. There's like restricted countries, effectively, where you can't collaborate with scientists from those countries, which even by US standards is like not how things work. That's like messed up by the standards of like American foreign policy. And then also, if you are doing any collaboration with any scientist from a, from another country and there's money involved in it, that grant has to be individually approved by like this person that they've said set up. So this makes scientific collaboration effectively impossible, right? Because most of those things aren't going to happen because this is going to, you know, rec reproduce the sort of Doge bottlenecks that we saw where suddenly all these grants are disappearing, even ones that would eventually get approved. The people who were supposed to be getting them are completely screwed because their reliance on that grant coming in in order to do their research and the pivot in control of, of how, how these grants are being given out from people who are at the very least scientists to, you know, just the people who are currently running the NIH who are like RFK Jr. Right. It's those kind of people who are going to be running these kinds of grants and they are going to be able to do damage to this that is, quite frankly, incalculable. This is the destruction of the entire system of American science. Like, almost like vast, vast percentages of all the science in the US Is done off of government grants. Either it's. Either it's done by like the NIH or like by, by government institutions or not entirely all but a huge portion of science is done at research universities, which is again, how like, most science happens is also supported by these grants. And if we're in this situation now where all of these grants are again going through one person who is like, solely motivated by political factors as to whether or not they're going to approve this, which is what the system they're attempting to set up, this is the death of American science. And it's worse than that too, because. And this is the thing where I'm going to do a full episode about this next week because there are a lot more implications. But the section of rule sets being changed here by, by the Office of Management and Budget. This is not the session for the grant allocation for science. Right. This is the section for all grants given out by the US by the US Government. So, for example, Medicaid.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, wow.

[Miranda]

Yeah. So all of that is now subject to this stuff. Right. Like disaster aid.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Miranda]

You know, like any money the government is giving out. Right. That's going through the grant system, is now going through this process. Yeah, There's, I think, public comment on this ends July 7th. So I guess if you want to scream at them, that's technically possible. It's really not clear if democratic politicians are going to actually try to substantively do something to stop this, which there's no direct legal mechanism for them to stop this. They could do another government shutdown or something.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[Miranda]

But. But yeah, this is, this is just sort of the state of things, which is that a lot. And a lot of this stuff has already been happening. It's worth saying. Right. Like a lot of these funding for everything from, like, vaccine programs to, like, the very small amount of research that was going into trans healthcare or, like, queer healthcare in general. Like, those grants are just gone. And, you know, we've already seen a whole bunch of chaos from the interruption of the grant system on the sort of university level for scientists, but this is all just going to get significantly worse as this rule change rolls out. Yeah, yeah. So on. On that happy note, last week, the

[Robert Evans]

former chief patrol agent for the El Centro sector and also commander of Border Patrol's operation at large, Gregory Bevino, took to X the Everything app to announce that he was on his way to Delaney Hall. Wasn't exactly clear why, because Pavino is no longer a serving law enforcement officer. In fact, he was en route to a remigration summit in Portugal. At the conference, Pavino joined politicians from Fox and afte. They spoke sort of behind closed doors. Journalists who wanted to cover the event had to stay in a car park outside where they were harassed by a drone. He's not listed on the website, but it's like a sort of mystery speaker. And I'm guessing that that was him. Right, Right. Remigration. If people aren't familiar, we're going to do a whole episode on this next week. But the. The website for the conference sets it out as a set of fiscal, cultural, economic, social, political, and logistical policies whose objective is to prevent population replacement through the reversal of migratory flows. It is very explicitly about undocumented, documented, and naturalized people. It's not about following the law. It is explicitly racial. It's about race, ethnicity, religion, and the idea of, like, national purity and cleansing the nation of people who it considers not to be pure. If you think this is something that has maybe happened before in European history, you would not be alone. Greg Pavino took the chance to compare himself to Rommel in one interview.

[Miranda]

Great.

[Robert Evans]

Also compared himself to T.E. lawrence and Patton, which is a fairly remarkable setting.

[James Stout]

Rommel and Patton. Yes.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, right. Without skipping a beat. Maybe he's one of those guys who's like a clean, fair, marked guy. He also sort of. It was interesting. Like I said, I'm gonna break this down more next week. I think what was more interesting than, like, Greg Provino talks to Nazis about Nazi shit, which, like, come on, what does one expect is the way he talked about stuff in terms of, like, the role he sees Border Patrol having. He referred to them. He said they're often referred to as federal law enforcement, Marine Corps. The Border Patrol can operate anywhere in the United States and associated territories and simultaneously fulfill all enforcement Missions. He goes on to talk about them. He says that they are the only organization capable of planning and executing this type of operation. He's not wrong. They are the only agency that could do something like a mass deportation campaign like we're seeing. But like this, this Marine Corps of the internal Marine Corps is interesting. Right. That is how they have been used, especially by the Trump administration. Right. Think of Portland in 2020. Right. Like these are the government's goons. Like when they need a hit squad to fuck people up, this is who they go to. Yeah. And that identity is something that Bevino et al have clearly embraced. Right. Bevino was in BORTAC not extremely recently, but he has points in his career been in bortac. He also kind of tried to set distance between BP and ice, which is interesting. He called them. He said the Newark fiasco last night in New Jersey illustrates what happens when untrained investigators are sent to handle a situation that it's the responsibility of uniformed specialists. He's there suggesting that the ICE employees lacked the necessary training to do what I guess they would call crowd control.

[Miranda]

Which is really funny because that's also the Democrats line. It's like, oh, no, these people aren't trained well enough.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, well, his line is therefore, like, turn it over to the people who are well trained enough so we can them up, up. Which I guess is also kind of what the Democrats are at. It's not a million miles apart. Bavino has also been doing some right wing podcasts. He went on a Border Hawk podcast where he appeared seemingly from his office. Behind him. He had a shadow box. Does anyone want to hazard a guess what was in the shadow box? Military memorabilia of a certain kind. Yeah.

[Miranda]

Is it German Nazi crosses?

[Robert Evans]

No, it is. It is contemporary. It pertains to his career.

[James Stout]

That's good. Is it one of his challenge coins that he got from fucking Chicago or wherever?

[Robert Evans]

They're probably smart enough not to put their challenge coins on public display anywhere. Yeah, no, it's a bunch of less lethal grenades.

[James Stout]

Ah, okay.

[Robert Evans]

Of course, like the thing with which I guess he wishes to be associated.

[James Stout]

I have a lot of those at my house too. The used ones.

[Robert Evans]

It's just like taking pride in being the guy who stamped down harder on the First Amendment than anyone has in recent history. Cool. He's also been very critical of current DHS leadership. Right after Pavino and Noam took to the national media to lie about Alex Pretty. In the hours after Alex Pretty died, they both became too toxic even for this administration. And he clearly has some hard feelings about this.

[Dan]

He mentioned the 20 million figure. My figure is 100 million. His is 20 million. Now let's take a look at that number, Dan. So we've got, by Tom Holman's estimate, 20 million illegal aliens. If that's the case, then he's already arrested 1/10 of all illegal aliens present in the United States. Do you see that with your eyes on the streets? Do I see that with my eyes on the streets? If it's really going that good. A tenth of all illegal aliens. And they're all legal aliens. They're not immigrants or anything else.

[James Stout]

Illegal aliens.

[Dan]

A tenth. If there were a tenth already deported, the rest would be buttoned up tighter than you can imagine. Those lines southbound for self deportation would be out the door. That's not happening.

[Garrison Davis]

This is really interesting.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. We'll go into this in our specific episode. The way he arrives at that number is through the number of traffic delays in Charlotte, North Carolina during the border patrol operation there.

[Miranda]

What?

[Robert Evans]

This is the evidence he cites? Yeah. Okay. It's fascinating. Like, like he. He talks about how he thinks a number is higher because of his time at border patrol rate.

[Garrison Davis]

He may think there is like 100 million illegal immigrants.

[Robert Evans]

He believes this in his. Yeah, like deep down in. Yeah, like, he.

[Garrison Davis]

Interesting.

[Robert Evans]

This is 100% what he believes. And he wants to deport that many people.

[James Stout]

Yeah. I don't know if it's that he believes there's that many people who are illegal in the way.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. But he doesn't differentiate.

[James Stout]

Or he's just considering everyone who is not, you know, white here. Yeah, well, I mean, he.

[Garrison Davis]

He did differentiate in this video, which is interesting.

[Dan]

He.

[Garrison Davis]

He did.

[James Stout]

No, no, no, that's not what that meant. But yeah, yeah, he was making the case that any one border patrol goes after after is an illegal alien. I think.

[Garrison Davis]

I mean, that. But that's not what he said.

[James Stout]

Well, I mean, what he said was the term that you should use for these people is illegal aliens, not migrants or something like, he. He does not like that. A lot of folks think it's wrong to refer to a human being as illeg. What he's saying, like, he's not making a deeper point than that, but I do think his belief is that that hundred million number includes a lot of people who were, for example, naturalized or who were made citizens through, like, ju. Solely, which we've seen. Like, he thinks should go away and so does the administration.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Or indeed, like people on visas. Right. Yes.

[Miranda]

Well, but I mean, more like. Like if you're if you want to get to 100 million, you're deporting people who are just non white.

[James Stout]

Like, you can't.

[Miranda]

There aren't 100 million, like, natural, like,

[Garrison Davis]

but it's, it sounds. Just believes there is, like, way more undocumented immigrants in the United States than what there actually is. Like, that is. Yes, he does in this short clip, but that is what he's like referring

[James Stout]

to, in part because he believes a lot of people who everyone else would consider legally immigrating have not. Like, that is part of why he's saying that. Now. There's also a belief that, like the num. That the government's lying to you about how many of them there are. There's vastly more. But part of it is he does not believe a lot of the ways that people become citizens who are not, not white are, are legitimate. Like, that is an aspect of what he's saying.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, he, he spoke about this at length in his interview. Right. He was saying how many people he'd seen come. He talks about whole villages in Mexico coming across the border. Like Loves. This is fairly familiar rhetoric. Right. I can, I'm just scrolling down here if I can find his, his 100 million claim. 100 million, Pew researchers figure hasn't changed since the 1970s. He says, said. He says 30 years ago, illegal immigrants were absent from large portions of American territory. I don't know where he's getting that information. He said he began seriously examining these numbers in 2008. He then says that around 2006, he found some information from Bear Stearns. That's a bank. They're like an investment bank. I think he claims that drove his number. He saw an uninterrupted flow of illegal immigrants across the border without any internal application, capable of producing mass expulsions. From 2006 to 2026, our borders were nothing but speed bumps. Illegals and smugglers knew that once they crossed the border, they were virtually safe from any consequences. Of course, that does include Trump's first term. But then he, he goes on to cite these bizarre statistics like, I'll just, I'll give you the Charlotte traffic example. One of the indicators that we're looking at is commuting times. For these times to be considered, quote, unquote, good, between 15 and 20% of commuters must be taken off the road. In Charlotte, there are 153,000 commuters per day. Approximately as soon as we launched Operation Charlotte's Web, Travel times did not move into the good category, they moved into the excellent category. Estimates indicated that 30% or more of commuters were no longer traveling. This means that at least 30% of them were most likely illegal immigrants. That is a logical leap across the Grand Canyon of logic. Jesus Christ.

[James Stout]

I'd read that that's how he's calculating. Which, you know, cuts out a lot of obvious reasons people might not drive during this who are. Are legal. Like the fact that ICE has undeniably deported citizens and taken people into custody for long periods of time who were citizens, you know.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. That they've pulled random brown people out

[Miranda]

of cars, that they've shot and killed people.

[James Stout]

Yes.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. This happened also in late November of 2025. A time where people travel, a time where people get sick.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Commutes generally go down in late November.

[Garrison Davis]

Commuters fluctuate. Yeah.

[Miranda]

Like, that's just gibberish.

[James Stout]

It's an insane way to draw the conclusion he's drawn.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah, It's. It's bonkers.

[Miranda]

It's also. It's also this thing where it's like, in order to, like, think this is what's going on. Like, one of the premises of this is like, oh, it's like the illegal aliens that are, like, making every single problem bad. Like, you see this with.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Miranda]

The, like, the people who support this online who are like, oh, the housing crisis would end if we just deported everyone. And it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, obviously. No, but like, they're coming at it from the motivated reasoning of I want to do an ethnic cleansing. And then they're sort of post hoc creating justifications for it.

[Robert Evans]

This is what fascism does. Right. It blames all the, all the problems of the chosen group on the scapego.

[Garrison Davis]

These economic problems.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah. Yes. Like, they've seen equa non of fascism. And it's very core is this. This idea of a chosen group and a scapegoat group. And the scapegoat group are responsible for the decline of the chosen group. And if they can be removed, the chosen group will return to its former glory. Like, that is. Yeah. Fascism in five minutes. And that's what we're seeing. Right. Unsurprisingly, given that he's at a conference with straight up Nazis. But I think this, this hundred million number is interesting. And like, what's interesting is him talking in a way that he didn't talk to the press when he was in charge of Border Patrol, but that he probably did believe. But Vino is popular among Border Patrol agents. Right. There are a number of them who feel that he was the leader that they needed. He showed up in a field, right? He had the support of agents because he was there with them. And like him believing this tells us a lot about the agency. And I think that's something I want to dive deeper into next week.

[James Stout]

Okay.

[Robert Evans]

And email us with your news tips. Cool Zone tips. Proton me.

[Miranda]

Yeah, Put a trans girl on your couch.

[James Stout]

Well, friends, that's going to be it from all of us at it could happen here. Ed, this week we'll be back with more episodes on the normal schedule that we put out episodes. And you should keep listening to them because we love you. And we reported the news.

[Sophie Lichterman]

We reported the news.

[Jenny Garth]

We reported the news.

[Sophie Lichterman]

It could happen. Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website Cools on Media or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find sources where it could happen here listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening. Who says renting can't feel like home? Make your rental feel like yours. It all starts with one scroll. Download TikTok to discover easy home decor ideas.

[Nick Jonas]

Number one hits, millions of records sold awards, Sold out tours. You think the Jonas Brothers are satisfied?

[Sophie Lichterman]

Nope.

[Nick Jonas]

It's podcast time.

[Robert Evans]

We get to ask other people questions

[James Stout]

because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.

[Nick Jonas]

A Jonas is available now, and their first guest is a big one, Paul Rudd.

[Robert Evans]

You know, Steve Carell is a great singer. Can he tell you not to audition

[Garrison Davis]

the Office or something?

[Robert Evans]

I told him we were filming Anchorman. Clearly, I was the idiot. Thank God he didn't listen to me, right?

[Nick Jonas]

Listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Robert Evans]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Jenny Garth]

Guaranteed Human.