Robert Evans (2:27)

as other agents which means when you

Sponsor Voice 2 (2:29)

find a place you love, you've got a real shot at getting it. Redfin helps turn saved listings into real addresses. Get started@redfin.com own the dream this is

Radhi Devlukia (2:42)

Radhi Jablukia from A really Good Cry. I absolutely love being outdoors, even if it's just stepping outside for a bit of fresh air between meals or taking a mindful walk to clear my head. But the one thing that can really ruin that is when my feet feel cramped in my shoes. So I switched to ultra running. And honestly, it makes such a difference. What I love most is their signature ultra fit, comfort, balance, strength. They have this roomy toe box that lets my toes actually spread and move naturally. So I really appreciate that and I feel more grounded and balanced with every single step. It's like my feet can finally do their job using all those little muscles that make me feel stronger the more I move. Whether you are a marathon runner, beginner or advanced, or just getting outside to train, altras have become my go to for running and moving mindfully. They fit so well, they're so comfortable and they just move with you. Shop now@altrarunning.com and use my code CRY.10 for 10% off. That's a L T R a running.com experience Altra and stay out there.

Robert Evans (3:40)

Call Zone Media.

James Stout (3:46)

This is it could happen here. Executive Disorder, our weekly newscast covering what is happening in the White House, the crumbling of our world and what this means for you. I am James Stout and today I am joined by Sophie Lichterman and Mia Wong. This week we're covering the week of February 18th to February 25th.

Robert Evans (4:09)

We'll also have a segment by one Garrison Davis added on later. They were out in the field covering a story which will be an episode coming out soon.

James Stout (4:19)

But yeah, they were inside the capital. Not. Not the. Not the state's capital. Yeah, yeah, Zoran Mamdharmi. I understand he's going to pardon them and it will be fine.

Robert Evans (4:30)

Oh my gosh.

Garett (4:32)

Should be like four people who actually believe this.

James Stout (4:34)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Please don't take to the subreddit. Garrison has not been arrested. So a couple of small things, I guess. Last week the Georgia State Elections Board voted to reprimand Elon Musk's America PAC for mailing absentee ballot applications pre filled out with voter information during the 2024 elections. That violates state law.

Robert Evans (4:57)

Yeah, yeah.

James Stout (4:59)

And they didn't. They did this thing. I don't know if you remember this. They didn't indicate like it wasn't A ballot. It wasn't from the government to vote with. It was from Elon Musk.

Robert Evans (5:08)

What?

Garett (5:09)

That's so unhinged.

James Stout (5:11)

Yeah, he was really on one back then. It'll be interesting to see how he approaches the midterms with his America Party.

Robert Evans (5:18)

Wow. SCOTUS did say that USPS is legally immune for intentionally misdelivered mail. They're basically saying, you know, and this was a 5 to 4 decision, and it happened on Tuesday, February 24th, that the US Postal Service can't be held liable for intentional failure to deliver mail.

Garett (5:38)

Unhinged decision, by the way, that the actual. The actual story behind it is this black woman who was renting property out to people. And all the, like, the people were pissed about it because they're racists. And so they were doing shit, like intentionally not delivering bills and stuff. They were, like, locking their mailboxes with, like, locks that no one had the keys to because the post office people were just putting locks on it. And it got ruled that they have immunity for this.

Robert Evans (6:03)

Wow.

James Stout (6:03)

Bizarre. Yeah.

Robert Evans (6:05)

I mean, all of this just feels like it's being targeted for voter suppression, but. Yeah, that's a bigger story.

Garett (6:12)

Yeah, but. But it's also another case of Supreme Court says racism, fined.

Robert Evans (6:18)

Yeah, Many such cases.

James Stout (6:20)

Yeah, that's the. That's the doctrine. The other thing was that this. This week, as part of the DHS shutdown, Lewandowski and Gnome decided that they were going to shut down TSA PreCheck and global Entry. So those people aren't familiar. Like, expedited processing. One is for getting on the plane as you go through security there, and the other one is for when you arrive in the United States and you clear customs. This lasted for, like, minutes. It seems the White House intervened. Yeah, I think Global Entry is still paused. There are other ways in which having a Global Entry card can expedite your entry into the US Still. But the pre check thing did not last very long because that would have probably pissed off all the wrong people. Right?

Robert Evans (7:07)

Like, yeah. And also made lines even longer, which is. Oh, yeah, airports are already a nightmare. Come on. Come on.

Garett (7:15)

They would have gotten killed by their own congressional staffers.

Robert Evans (7:19)

You think Ted Cruz doesn't have TSA PreCheck?

Garett (7:22)

Please.

James Stout (7:24)

The idea that, like, okay, so we're like, A, they're forcing all the TSA people to work anyway.

Garrison Davis (7:29)

Right.

James Stout (7:29)

Because they're essential employees. But B, like, if you can find a way to make those people work less, let's say by having a group of people who have been pre cleared so the TSA people don't have to spend quite as long checking them. That helps, actually. Like, this is not a cost saving measure. This is them clearly just trying to punish people and put it on the Dems.

Robert Evans (7:47)

I simply have TSA pre check just so I don't have to take off my shoes and because it brings me great joy when I get to ditch people who do not have it. Love ditching Robert Evans at the airport. And every time we travel together, it's a battle of who will get through the line first. And one time it was him and he was like, ah, you know what? I deserve that. A previous job bought me that PSA pre check and I've had it for years. And wow, I love not taking my shoes off.

James Stout (8:24)

That's it.

Robert Evans (8:25)

That's the only person for me. I'm like, wow, gets to wear shoes first world problems.

James Stout (8:33)

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's talk briefly about Mexico.

Robert Evans (8:40)

Yes.

Garett (8:40)

Oh, God. Dramatic tone shift.

James Stout (8:43)

Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, you might use your pre check on a trip to Mexico.

Robert Evans (8:47)

Wow. James. Transition. Wow.

James Stout (8:50)

Yeah, that's a transition. That's what we do here. Yeah. Professional podcasting. The Mexican military killed El Mencho on Sunday. El Mencho's legal name is Nemesio Oceguera Cervantes. He was of course, the leader of the cjng, which is, I guess the English translation would be like the Jalisco cartel. New generation.

Robert Evans (9:10)

Right.

James Stout (9:11)

The Spanish acronym is how it's generally used. He was also the most wanted person in Mexico. The operation was carried out by the Mexican military. I've seen some reports. They didn't notify local law enforcement, so he wouldn't be tipped off. Now, Metro is reported to have died on a military flight after the raid. So have been injured in the raid and then died on the way back to Mexico City, where he was obviously going to be treated and then questioned if he survived, I guess in response, more than 250 narco blockos, narco blockos, if you're not familiar, are roadblocks that are generally made up of vehicles that are carjacked. They're often like buses and then they're set ablaze. They're set at 90 degrees to the direction of travel of the road. Right. So it makes a roadblock. So more than 250of these were set up around the country. This is a relatively common response. The most, I guess, like serious response we've seen to a government action before was called the Culiacanaso, which is in a lower cartel. This, this One they're calling the Menchaso. Right. Using, like, the same etymology, I guess. There have also been attacks on Mexican National Guard troops, killing more than two dozen in 24 hours. Following the raids, more than 60 civilians have now been reported to have been killed, including a pregnant woman. Yeah, this all like, it's folks in Mexico who are gonna. Gonna suffer. Right. Like, it's. It's everyday people trying to get on with their lives. Another of the things that happened is the Banco Bien Estar. So, like, well, being bank, I guess I would translate that as it's a bank that exists to bring people into the banking system who would otherwise be unbanked. It's a government initiative in Mexico, so a lot of branches of that bank have been burnt down. This is part of a tendency on the part of Scheinenbaum. Right. To repudiate the previous policy of hugs, not bullets, and to go after organized crime in Mexico more violently, I guess. It seems like the country's security forces have been leading the charge against the Sinaloa cartel. And this maybe indicates that it's the military who are going after the Jalisco cartel. So, like, the two branches are pursuing separate missions against. Against different entities. Right. It remains to be seen if there was any U.S. involvement. I kind of take issue at the knee jerk suggestion that there has to have been U.S. involvement. Like, the Mexican government is more than capable of doing state violence. It has done so for a long time.

Garett (11:47)

Yeah.

James Stout (11:48)

You know, the Mexican government is capable of acting on its own. Not everything that happens is about America. I don't want to cover this in too great of a detail. It's not really a beat that we report on, other than this. This is a relatively major occurrence in Mexico. Yeah.

Garrison Davis (12:02)

Mm.

Robert Evans (12:03)

And Gare is gonna plug in now. Future Gare, tell us what you got.

Garrison Davis (12:10)

Hello. Garrison Davis here with Sophie Lichterman for a special segment about the super bowl commercial for Ring the Doorbell. Owned by Amazon.

Robert Evans (12:20)

Yep.

Garrison Davis (12:21)

During the Super Bowl, Amazon's Ring Doorbell aired a commercial showing off a new feature called Search Party, which was advertised as a way to locate lost dogs by automatically searching through footage captured by ring cameras in the neighborhood to track a pet's movements.

Sponsor Voice 2 (12:38)

Ooh.

Robert Evans (12:38)

Who picked the name Search Party? And who thought that wasn't creepy?

Garrison Davis (12:42)

Search Party is interesting because it makes you think of, like, a crime scene.

Robert Evans (12:45)

Yes.

Garrison Davis (12:46)

That is a brain link that they may not. May not have intended. Let's play.

Robert Evans (12:50)

Yes, please.

Garrison Davis (12:51)

The audio from this commercial. Because as. As Sophie discussed before we started this segment, we're unsure of the overlap of it could happen here listeners and super bowl watchers. So here is the Ring commercial audio. It's 30 seconds.

James Stout (13:07)

This is Milo.

Garett (13:08)

Pets are family, but every year 10 million go missing.

James Stout (13:12)

And the way we look for them hasn't changed in years.

Garett (13:17)

Until now.

James Stout (13:18)

One post of a dog's photo in

Garett (13:19)

the Ring app starts.

Sponsor Voice (13:20)

Outdoor cameras looking for a match.

Paige (IVF Baby) (13:22)

Search party from Ring Apple uses AI

James Stout (13:24)

to help families find lost dogs.

Garett (13:26)

Since launch, more than a dog a

James Stout (13:27)

day has been reunited with their family.

Garett (13:29)

Be a hero in your neighborhood with

Paige (IVF Baby) (13:30)

search party available to everyone for free right now.

Garrison Davis (13:35)

Join the neighborhood@ring.com Join the neighborhood.

Robert Evans (13:39)

No. Also, when did they launch this? Do we know it's launched?

Garrison Davis (13:44)

I'm pretty sure search party is launched.

Robert Evans (13:45)

I just don't believe that Dog a Day bullshit.

Garrison Davis (13:48)

It launched in late 2025.

Robert Evans (13:51)

Okay.

Garrison Davis (13:51)

And I can speak to this a little bit more, actually.

Robert Evans (13:54)

Sure.

Garrison Davis (13:55)

Because I saw this feature early when I was in Las Vegas, actually.

James Stout (13:59)

Right.

Garrison Davis (14:00)

This commercial, this intends to portray, you know, a heartwarming unification of a dog and its owner. But in effect, the ad sparked public backlash, including from politicians like Massachusetts Senator Ed Markey and privacy rights organizations and among normies, because this ad accidentally demonstrated the technological capacity to turn every neighborhood ring camera into a web of surveillance that AI can use to locate anything based on a picture. Now, as I said, I saw this feature unveiled at CES last month. I talked about it on Better Offline at ces. The AI search functionality was described like this. The owner of a lost pet can upload a photo and post a notice in the Ring app. Then Amazon will utilize ring cameras in the area to search for matches. And if a match is found, the owner of the camera can share the footage with the owner of the lost pet. But the public display of this technology during the super bowl has stirred trouble and bad headlines for Amazon. Senator Ed Markey said that the ad, quote, exposed a scary truth. The technology in its doorbell cameras can be used to hunt down a lost pet or a person. Americans oppose this creepy surveillance state, unquote. And the privacy rights organization, the Electronic Frontier foundation wrote in a statement that the ad was, quote, unquote, disguised as heartfelt, but actually, quote, previewed future surveillance of our streets. A world where biometric identification could be unleashed from consumer devices to identify, track and locate anything, human, pet or otherwise, unquote. Now, these concerns are in the wake of high profile ICE raids targeting neighborhoods and a recent announcement that Ring was going to partner with the police surveillance company Flock, which operates large scale integrated camera Systems that allow police to tap into a network of surveillance in urban areas through cameras and license plate readers. Now, Flock claims that they do not give federal immigration agencies direct access to footage, and that may be true.

Robert Evans (16:15)

That doesn't mean that won't change and that they don't have capability to do so well.

Garrison Davis (16:19)

And that doesn't mean that CBP and ICE can't acquire that footage in other ways 100% than currently right now. A 404 Media report from last May showed that local police working with ICE used Flock's camera network to track immigrants as a part of ICE and Homeland Security investigations. So they are getting access to this footage even though they aren't directly tapped in to the Flock network because they can work with local agencies in states that do not have sanctuary city policies and in states that maybe do because police may not be always following those laws. Ring, not Flock, says that their footage can be requested by local law enforcement and users can decide whether or not to respond, Though Ring is also subject to warrants, subpoenas, and court orders requiring some footage be handed over to authorities. Following the backlash to the super bowl ad, Ring canceled its partnership with Flock in what the companies describe as a mutual decision. The deal would have allowed Ring owners to directly share footage with the Flock network. Now, all of this happened around the same time that the FBI was able to access recorded footage from Nancy Guthrie's Google Nest camera as a part of that kidnapping investigation, despite Guthrie not having an active recording subscription. So this, too sparked privacy concerns. Cash Patel, FBI director, said that the footage was recovered from, quote, residual data located in back end systems, unquote. This was footage that Google records and stores for free on a temporary basis, usually for a few hours before it is, quote, unquote, deleted. So if you have one of these Nest cameras, Google will store a few hours of footage for you to look at for free, and then says that it's going to be, quote, unquote, deleted, and Nest owners can pay a reoccurring fee to keep that footage accessible on the Google cloud for longer. Guthrie did not have such a subscription. So this data that was recorded was marked for deletion. But data deletion is not an immediate process. It just marks a piece of data as being okay to write over with new data, which means until that happens, fragments of that data can be retrieved and pieced back together. But this can be tricky and take a lot of time. And in this case, it took Google over a week for a very high

Robert Evans (18:51)

profile case, and they're still working behind the scenes to retrieve even more footage.

Garrison Davis (18:56)

Yeah.

Robert Evans (18:57)

From this Nest camera.

Garrison Davis (18:59)

It's. It's not easy. I think this, the sort of privacy concerns for this case do not reflect largely for, I think, most people's concerns because the specific way Google stores this footage in the cloud is also unique to the Google Nest system. Ring doesn't do it in this same way.

Robert Evans (19:14)

They also ended up outsourcing this to, like, private security retrievers for data retrievers, as opposed to doing it internally either with the local sheriffs or FBI, which says a lot.

Garrison Davis (19:30)

Yeah, not surprising. And yeah, there's always a concern with these sorts of, you know, doorbell cameras that the footage can be subpoenaed. Right.

Robert Evans (19:38)

Sure.

Garrison Davis (19:38)

But that process also takes a long time. I think there is a difference between the sort of Flock style immediate access and subpoenaing footage or having to piece together fragmented footage in the case of, like the Nest storage system. But this is. This is the current situation with, with the Ring and Flock deal that fell through. Ring does partner with Axon, the body cam company. Similarly, police can send requests to Ring users and they can voluntarily send the footage if they choose not to. If police really want that footage, they can try to get a court order that may or may not succeed, depending on the details of that case.

Robert Evans (20:15)

My question is, when you were at cs, what, what were they highlighting there? Was it different from this commercial or was it a similar campaign?

Garrison Davis (20:26)

It was very similar to this commercial. It was. It was like a section of the large, like Amazon room. Like Amazon has a whole suite. A suite in this hotel. But it's. It's not. It's not like a hotel room. It's on the convention floor. But they have like their whole, whole like kind of ballroom section.

Robert Evans (20:42)

Amazon wing.

Garrison Davis (20:43)

An Amazon wing of the convention.

Robert Evans (20:44)

Yeah.

Garrison Davis (20:45)

And this was one of the many products. They had a few other surveillance products like a. Like a security camera tower, it's powered by solar that can, like, roll around. Also was planning to integrate into these web surveillance networks. But since this ad and the negative backlash which led to the Flock deal coming through, there still has been reports from 404 Media about internal discussions among Ring to use search party for crime to. To quote, unquote, stop crime. And there's still ongoing discussion on the various ways to apply this technology. In an internal email acquired by 404, the Ring CEO said that search party could be a tool to help, quote, zero out crime in neighborhoods. So the capabilities of using this to track humans are very known among the people at Ring.

Robert Evans (21:36)

I think it's really interesting how quickly this partnership was dissolved with the backlash from that super bowl ad. It seemed to be almost instant. It's pretty quick, which shows that when something's really bad and you point it out, sometimes that can work to stop said bad thing.

James Stout (21:53)

Yeah.

Robert Evans (21:54)

But yeah, search party creepy. Don't like that. Law enforcement still wants to use it. Potentially be helpful with certain things maybe, but it really just seems like they're trying to do like normal people surveillance.

Garrison Davis (22:07)

Yeah. And then putting it with this, you heartwarming package of Helping Find Lost Dogs if you want to locate a lost dog, the most efficient way to do that is by having your dog microchipped. That is still the most most reliable method. Using this integrated camera network as a as a way to coax people into submitting into a system like this by waving the lost puppy banner is a little bit insidious.

Robert Evans (22:32)

Leave the dogs alone. The dogs don't want to be surveilled. My dog doesn't want to be surveilled. She does. She surveils my house. Stop trying to take the dog's jobs. We're going to go to a quick ad break and we'll be back.

Sponsor Voice (22:51)

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures kids pets life.

Sponsor Voice 2 (23:53)

Your sofa sees it all. But with a washable sofa, stains don't stand a chance. All of our sofa collections come with fully machine washable covers and cushions, making cleanup effortless liquid and stain resistant fabrics provide extra protection against everyday messes. Plus, with modular designs you can rearrange your sofa however you like. Perfect for growing families and changing spaces. Starting at just $699, it's time to upgrade to a stress free mess proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Radhi Devlukia (24:22)

This is Radhi Deblokia from A really Good Cry. I absolutely love being outdoors, even if it's just stepping outside for a bit of fresh air between meals or taking a mindful walk to clear my head. But the one thing that can really ruin that is when my feet feel cramped in my shoes. So I switched to ultra running and honestly, it makes such a difference. What I love most is their signature Ultra Fit Comfort Balance Strength. They have this roomy toe box that lets my toes actually spread and move naturally, so I really appreciate that and I feel more grounded and balanced with every single step. It's like my feet can finally do their job using all those little muscles that make me feel stronger the more I move. Whether you are a marathon runner, beginner or advanced, or just getting outside to train, altras have become my go to for running and moving mindfully. They fit so well, they're so comfortable and they just move with you. Shop now at altrarunning.com and use my code CRY10 for 10% off. That's a L T R-A running.com experience ultra and stay out there.

Podcast Announcer (25:19)

Discover a spectacular island destination with crystal blue seas, endless sunshine and the cool Bahamian breeze. Baha Mar, located in Nassau, Bahamas, offers your choice of three luxury hotels, the richly refined Rosewood, the place, playfully hip SLS and the stylishly modern Grand Hyatt. With over 45 restaurants, bars and lounges, Baja Mar serves up delicious dining from world renowned chefs like Daniel Boulud and Marcus Samuelsson, nightlife venues like the new Jean Baptiste Jazz Club and the Caribbean's most luxurious casino. At Baja Mar, you'll find every pleasure under the sun and one of a kind experiences for the entire family like Baja bay, our favorite 15 acre lush tropical water park, interactive wildlife experiences including our daily flamingo parade, world class golf, tennis spa and so much more. Visit bajamar.com today and discover a vacation destination where memories are made for a lifetime. Baja Mar Life Spectacular.

Robert Evans (26:23)

And we're back and I just wanted to follow up on something that was kind of overlooked from the State of the Union, which was, you know, kind of a throwaway discussion about ivf and I Just wanted to give some information because I think it's worth talking about. For those of you who don't know, IVF is incredibly expensive. According to. I looked at the National Bureau of Economic Research, as well as an article from CNY Fertility that says the average cost of IVF is often quoted at $12,000, but that is just the price quoted by the fertility clinic for, like, their base package. And I have several friends who have gone through this, and the costs are outrageous. Many other necessary expenses on top of that, $12,000 is around $20,000. And for most folks, on average, IVS doesn't necessarily work the first time around. For a lot of people, you're spending somewhere between 30,000 per round to 50 to 60,000 per round. And, you know, despite infertility being a medical diagnosis and IVF being the best medical treatment for that, a 2018 analysis of the IVF insurance market by Mercer found that 74% of Americans do not have insurance coverage for IVF. And, you know, just from speaking with friends, even if they do, it's still outrageously expensive.

James Stout (27:47)

Yeah.

Robert Evans (27:48)

So we're looking at a cost of about somewhere between depending on insurance or without insurance. And that's not even including the medical costs. That's not including the downtime costs of not working. That's not including if you're just doing egg retrieval and the cost of storage. But these expenses are outrageous. And it's been a heated topic for many folks in the far right. And just for an example, I would like to play a clip from Charlie Kirk talking to two. Sorry. Sorry in advance. Two girl twins that, you know, I. Actually, when this. When this video originally dropped, I. It was a discussion with a bunch of my friends. So I kind of think it's worth sharing. Yeah, just. Just to see, like, how heated of a topic it is, because I want to talk about how Donald Trump has addressed it and how that changed. So here is an interaction between two girls that were IVF babies talking to Charlie Kirk about ivf. And I think it's just really interesting to hear that extreme thinking from that side. Hi, Charlie.

Paige (IVF Baby) (28:52)

How are you?

Robert Evans (28:52)

Good.

James Stout (28:53)

How are you?

Paige (IVF Baby) (28:53)

Good.

Robert Evans (28:54)

Hi. So my name is Paige, and this is my twin sister, ivf.

Garrison Davis (28:57)

Wow.

Paige (IVF Baby) (28:58)

Okay.

Robert Evans (28:59)

We have two older sisters that are also ivf. Okay, so this is about ivf, of course. So I'm particularly neutral on the topic. I don't want to have, like, a forced opinion because, like, my entire family kind of become a product of IVF.

Paige (IVF Baby) (29:13)

Are you guys circus C2 or just IVF?

Robert Evans (29:15)

Just IVF just IVF. But I watch your videos, and so I've noticed that in one of your videos, you do mention that you are okay with ivf, but you're morally against it. Is that true?

Paige (IVF Baby) (29:27)

Yeah, it's a little bit deeper than that. But I have a lot of problems with ivf, albeit while acknowledging the fruit. I'm glad you're both alive.

Robert Evans (29:36)

Thank you.

Paige (IVF Baby) (29:36)

And so that must be celebrated. So it's a very. I'll explain the difficulty, but please continue.

Robert Evans (29:42)

Okay. My. Like, part one of my question is, just as someone who was conceived through ivf, why should I also be morally against it?

Paige (IVF Baby) (29:50)

Good question. Okay. So as a pro lifer, first and foremost, we have to have an issue with the discarded fertilized eggs that happen during ivf. That's why you guys are twins, is because during your creation process, if I can be provocatively blunt with your. You lost a lot of your siblings.

James Stout (30:09)

Yes.

Paige (IVF Baby) (30:11)

Am I correct in saying so?

Robert Evans (30:12)

For our older sisters, they had six embryos in their batch. Two came out, of course, but for us, there were three, and then two came out.

Paige (IVF Baby) (30:20)

Yeah. And so that's my first problem is that it definitionally is saying, like, we're going to discard life to get to life. Yeah, I have a problem with that.

Robert Evans (30:29)

So I do agree. But in a certain way. Oh, sorry. So in a certain way, those embryos, like, say they weren't going to become anyways, but at least we were trying because they were going to be raised in a house where we are pro life. And we really wanted to be able to have kids and cherish that. But by taking that loss, they were able to have at least us out of the three. At least they could have the one. So it's kind of. I don't know where I'm going with that.

Paige (IVF Baby) (30:54)

I understand what you're saying. So there's a pro life way to do ivf, which is only implant the eggs of which the children that you actually want to raise. And so, by the way, you have a lower likelihood of working because in your case, it would be maybe two or three. For example, the way that the IVF doctor will sell it is like, look, here's six embryos. You'll be lucky if one or two implant to the uterine wall. Let's see what happens now. In certain cases, four implant to the uterine wall and you get quadruplets.

Garett (31:25)

Right.

Paige (IVF Baby) (31:26)

Which is what happens. I find that to be a little bit creepy, to be honest, that a doctor can kind of call shots on what life is gonna live and not live.

Robert Evans (31:36)

I think you're a little bit creepy.

Garett (31:39)

Does this guy understand what an egg is? I guess, like, ideologically, obviously, no. But, like, what. How does he think that?

James Stout (31:49)

Yeah.

Robert Evans (31:49)

So that. That was like, an extreme side of things.

James Stout (31:52)

Yeah.

Robert Evans (31:52)

That opinion of you're killing your siblings and, you know, that. That sort of thing. I just find it the. The beginning of that video, I talked about it with a lot of my friends when I first came out. I just thought it was so interesting that where he's like, well, I'm glad you're alive. Yeah, but you're immoral. Is such a. Such. Such an unhinged stance.

James Stout (32:15)

Yeah.

Robert Evans (32:16)

Meanwhile, during the Trump campaign. Sorry in advance. Donald Trump's voice heard Trump back to back.

Garett (32:25)

I should get hazard pay.

James Stout (32:27)

After listening to it for, like, two. Two hours last night of the.

Robert Evans (32:31)

Yeah, yeah. Trump deeply pivoted. We're going back to, like, about a month before the election in 2024, but he deeply pivoted on IVF after the Alabama Supreme Court issued a ruling that effectively halted IVF treatment in the state by declaring that frozen Embry are legally considered to be children.

James Stout (32:50)

Jesus Christ.

Robert Evans (32:51)

This decision led to a temporary shutdown of IVF services at major clinics due to liability risks. This is, you know, from Johns Hopkins public health website. Yeah. And so that started a big discussion and split lots of different people on different political sides about the topic.

James Stout (33:09)

Yeah.

Robert Evans (33:10)

But, yeah, Trump pivoted an ivf, and this is what he had to say.

James Stout (33:13)

That's what this is about.

Donald Trump (33:14)

Oh, I want to talk about ivf.

James Stout (33:17)

I'm the father. You don't hear that of ivf.

Sponsor Voice (33:19)

I'm the father of ivf.

Donald Trump (33:21)

So I want to hear this question.

James Stout (33:22)

What the fuck?

Robert Evans (33:24)

Yeah. Also during the campaign trail, in an interview with NBC News, this is the most important clip of it, he said the following.

Donald Trump (33:32)

Well, as you know, I was always for IVF right from the beginning, as soon as we heard about it. It's fertilization, and it's helping women and men and families, but it's helping women able to have a baby. Some have great difficulty, and a lot of them have been very happy with the results, as you know. And what we're doing, and we're doing this because we just think it's great, and we need great children, beautiful children in our country. We actually need them. And we are going to be under the Trump administration, we are going to be paying for that treatment. So we are paying for that treatment. All Americans who want it, all Americans that get it. All Americans. Americans that need It. So we're going to be paying for that treatment or we're going to be mandating that the insurance company pay.

Robert Evans (34:16)

So either either the government will pay for it or the insurance companies under a mandate. Yes, that did not happen. He campaigned on that. And just giving that false hope to people struggling with infertility who can't afford the, like I said, 30 to 60 to God knows how much thousands of dollars is pretty sick.

James Stout (34:34)

It's particularly weird when I understand this is a thing that, like, his party's not united on, but, like they've gone after not having to pay for other reproductive health care. Right. And like, specifically, I'm talking mostly about abortions here. Right. Like that insurers or employers would not have to pay for it. That, that's a demand that you constantly hear on the. Right. Like, I guess this is such a strange issue for them because I guess it's one of the few areas where there's still like some division, where they haven't all just like fallen into line on it.

Robert Evans (35:07)

Right. And right after he was elected, it was in the middle of February 2025, he put on an executive order that said, end quote, to support American families is the policy of my administration to ensure reliable access to IVF treatment, including by easing unnecessary statutory regulatory burdens to make IVF treatment drastically more affordable. Okay, so he's already gone back on the Promise for Money campaign, but that didn't stop him from doing this.

Donald Trump (35:34)

We're going to have tremendous, tremendous goodies in the bag for women to the women. Between the fertilization and all of the other things that we're talking about, it's going to be, it's going to be great. We're joined today.

Garett (35:48)

Horrible word, fertilizer.

Donald Trump (35:53)

I'm, I'm still very proud of it.

James Stout (35:56)

I don't care.

Donald Trump (35:58)

I'll be known as the fertilization president. That, that's okay. That's not bad. That's not bad. I've, I've been called, I've been called much worse.

James Stout (36:10)

Wow.

Robert Evans (36:11)

Yeah, you have.

James Stout (36:12)

That's. Yeah, I didn't expect that one today.

Radhi Devlukia (36:17)

I'm sorry.

Robert Evans (36:19)

It's so insane. And then back in, last October, they put out like one of their, like White House fact sheets, you know, fact sheet. President J. Trump announces action to lower costs and expand access to in vitro fertilization, IVF and high quality fertility care. And per the American Society for Reproductive Medicine. You can read this on the White House website, but this summary pretty much covers it. It's that the Trump administration's IVF initiative contains two key components. The first is a drug pricing agreement with pharmaceutical company emd. Serrano provides discounts on the list prices of select IVF medications. These medications will be offered at a lower cost to eligible users through a government operated portal. TRUMP rx.gov and preliminary federal estimates from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services suggest potential savings of up to $2,200 per treatment cycle for medications alone. So Trump rx.gov launched this month in February 2026. It's a government hosted website that serves as a facilitator and points Americans to drug makers direct to consumer websites where they can make purchases. It also provides coupons to use it for disease. And it seems basically like a government version of Goodrx. And it's very similar to Mark Cuban's Cost plus drugs, which has a lot of the same medications with similar discounts, including the same kind of medications for fertility and per asmr. Again, this move alone does not make IVF attainable for most patients. Fertility drugs represent only one portion of the overall cost of care. And patients without good insurance coverage continue to face significant out of pocket expenses. Trump has repeatedly promised to make IVF universally successful. This announcement does not fulfill that promise. Meaningful progress requires policies that ensure all Americans who need medical assistance to build their families can access that care.

Garett (38:07)

Also, by the way, you can't use your insurance with Trump rx.

James Stout (38:11)

So yeah, it's, it's an either or.

Garett (38:14)

Yeah. Great.

Robert Evans (38:15)

To note, he specifically brought this up in last night's State of the Union during one of his what I call a propo, I think back to like the Hunger Games, what I call a propo, which is when they like bring people out, it like dates back to like Reagan. And when they bring people out to be like, and this person here. But it just was such a bizarre thing to bring up. And you know, Trump's state of the Union was the longest of all time.

James Stout (38:42)

Yeah, I think so.

Robert Evans (38:44)

And he spent a total of five minutes on health care alone. And this was part of it.

Donald Trump (38:50)

And here tonight is the very first customer ever to get that big discount. And it is big. Katherine Rayner. For five years, she and her husband have struggled with infertility and they turned to IVF. One drug has been costing Katherine $4,000 to purchase. But a few weeks ago, she logged onto the Trump RX website and got that same drug that cost $4,000. Got it for under $500, a reduction of much more, actually, than $3,500. Katherine, we are all praying for you and you're going to be

Robert Evans (39:32)

really creepy.

James Stout (39:33)

Yeah. Imagine having the president talking about how you've been boning like, like what a. How you're having trouble. Like that's a difficult thing for a lot of people to talk. Like I've had friends who have gone through IVF as well.

Robert Evans (39:44)

Yeah.

James Stout (39:44)

Thing that happens when you're in your 30s, but like it's a hard thing for people to talk about, let alone to have to have it talked about in front of the whole country.

Robert Evans (39:52)

Fertility and infertility is such a personal thing and it's really. Did you use that woman's pain to promote your drug discount website? It's repugnant. It's repugnant.

James Stout (40:07)

Yeah. And she's still paying 500 bucks a month. Like, like that's a lot of money.

Robert Evans (40:12)

She's unreal 100%. While that's not as bad as 5,000. That's so much money.

Garett (40:18)

Yeah.

Robert Evans (40:19)

And it's like, while any discounted fertility related drugs is good, this is not what was promised. IVF still ridiculously unachievable for most people. He is not the father of ivf. And this is fraudulent advertising, just a way of like trying to promote his like artificial empathy to a wider audience. And it's despicable. And fertility issues do not need to be played with like that. That's what I had on that. It was like a very big throwaway comment. But I thought it was worth talking about because it's been. There's been like a linear lead up to what that was and I think it's important to talk about.

James Stout (41:02)

Yeah, definitely.

Garrison Davis (41:04)

Yeah.

Robert Evans (41:05)

Anyways, James, you have, you have more to talk about.

James Stout (41:09)

Yeah. So going back to Congress before the State of the Union, Senator Blumenthal's office published a couple of documents from two anonymous whistleblowers which show changes in basic training for erosion ERO Enforcement Removal operations. So they're one of the branches of ice. Right. You also have HSI and then like ice administrative stuff. Hsi, Homeland Security Investigations. The ERO are the people who are supposed to go out and detain and remove people. Right. That is what they do. The documents show, quote, cuts of more than a dozen significant practice examinations which potential ICRO officers no longer must undergo. In fact, the cut is 16 out of a previous total of 25. So there are now just nine of these practical exams, whereas before there were 25. The exams remove include, quote, judgment, pistol shooting, determine removability, encounters to detention and detention to removal as well as criminal Encounters. So these are like exams that would test the knowledge of the potential would be ICE agent on these issues. Right.

Garett (42:18)

So you see you just don't have to know that anymore.

James Stout (42:20)

Yeah. Well you can you do an open book test. It's open book multiple choice. Yeah, it is now. Yeah. In some cases there isn't a graded practical exam at all. It's just pass fail an open book multiple choice test. Yeah. To determine your understanding of the law. Right.

Garett (42:41)

Or becoming a testing lib.

James Stout (42:43)

Yeah, I know. Right. Like I just. I guess I should caveat all of this by saying like the people who killed Alex Pretty and Renee Goode were exceptionally well trained. They had been trained for a long time. They had been in DHS for years and didn't stop the murdering American citizens industry. I'm not saying that.

Garett (43:01)

Yeah.

James Stout (43:01)

Like I'm not Joe Bidening this but this is still notable. There is also the wholesale removal of some classes because these classes that have been removed include the use of force simulation training. That's like a. They watch a video and they have like a laser pistol. That's how they simulate use of force there. Well they used to I guess also the training on the legal structure of the United States government ero authority and use of force. It also shows a huge reduction in the overall training which we also heard from Ryan Schwank who we'll get to in a minute but he was a former lawyer with ICE who testified to Congress. Todd Lyons previously told Congress that the fledc, that's a federal law enforcement Training centers in Georgia had been moving from five 8 hour days to six 12 hour days. So although the number of training days for ICE agents have been cut, the number of training hours was the same. They were just going to get through it with their grind set I guess. But the, the whistleblower documents show that they're still appearing to do eight hour days. The number of days has been cut and the number of hours of training in each day has remained the same. There are some longer days but mostly those are people who have to make up the PT test or like some nights seem to go later with practical stuff like first aid and shooting. But the bulk of the days continue to be eight hours. There are now 42 total days versus 75 before. Some of this was already public actually in certain forums and subreddits, er, officers have been posting about the. The faster training course for a while. The documents show a target of 4,007 new officers in fiscal year 2026. They would aim to have commissioned 4,000 new ICE officers by the end of September. We also heard from Ryan Schwank who testified to Congress and they published some excerpts from his testimony, which I'm just going to include here a couple of quotations. Quote, I am duty bound to tell you that the ICE Basic Immigration Enforcement Training Program is now deficient, defective and broken. And another quote here, without reform, ICE will graduate thousands of new officers who do not know their constitutional duty and do not know the limits of their authority and do not have the training to recognize an unlawful order. Finally, ICE is lying to Congress and the American people about the steps it is taking to ensure its 10,000 new officers faithfully uphold the Constitution and perform their jobs. Schwank was hired in 2021 as a assistant chief counsel for the ISOBIS of principal Legal Advisor. He also served as a resident attorney at Dilly, which is a detention centre for families and children. And at some point in his past, he was a private practice immigration attorney.

Robert Evans (45:47)

What?

Garett (45:47)

Good Lord.

James Stout (45:48)

This is not like a particularly woke guy, I would say. And none of this is to suggest that it would be okay for there to be thousands more rights officers if they were better trained. It still wouldn't. But it does show that the state is building a force of people who don't know what an unlawful order is and what their rights are and what their obligations are and what the rights of the people who they are detaining are. And talking about the rights of people who are being detained, I want to talk about a development in the case of the unaccompanied Guatemalan children. People remember that over Labor Day, the Trump administration tried to deport these children and they tried a number of like, Reddit lawyer shit like, like just, just really like silly. Like, I know these legal arguments, which was kind of spurious to get away with it. And they were prevented by a restraining order. Right. If you remember the judge, Sparkle Soup Nanan, who was the first judge who, who, who issued the restraining order, but they did so in the middle of the night over Labor Day weekend and sent one of their attorneys to the airport to prevent them. Yeah, they truly like last minute stuff the class for that tro. And the injunction was, quote, children from Guatemala who are or will be in the custody of defendants. The or will be. Leads to the next part of our story. Right. A lawsuit is now alleging that CBP is flouting the injunction by returning children when they first enter custody before they're sent to the Office of Refugee Resettlement. So they kind of tried to previously make this argument that like they were with orr. They weren't with ISO, they weren't with dhs. They're with orr. Right. So the Office of Refugee Resettlement is a distinct entity. So they'd sort of tried this, like, oh, there's nothing we can do to stop the Office of Refugee Resettlement. And that had not worked. Right. The suit also alleges that, quote, defendants are using misinformation, coercion, threats, and fear to persuade children to relinquish their rights and sign paperwork purportedly accepting a form of expedited voluntary return. This is common across dhs. Right. In my reporting on Dilly, for instance, Primrose told me that the forms for voluntary repatriation are present, like, all day and all night in their room. Like, anytime it gets too much for you, anytime they're too hungry, too tired, too stressed, too scared, you can sign that form, you're on a plane and it's all over for you. You're going back to wherever you fled from. Included in the case is a claim by an attorney at the National Immigrant Justice Center. The unaccompanied children have been given a document that, quote, completely misstates or at least dramatically misrepresents the immigration laws that apply to unaccompanied immigrant children. And it conveys to vulnerable children threats that are, quote, in clear contravention of the entire system implemented to protect and promote the safety and best interests of unaccompanied immigrant children pursuant to the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization act of 2008. So what this is suggesting is that these. These young people are being provided with, like, essentially, it's not legal advice, but it's misconstruing the rights that they have to be protected. Right. And so that they are not being advised properly of the protections that they have under law. I'm going to keep an eye on this one because I think. I don't love the phrase unaccompanied minors when we talk about this, because these children are often accompanied. There are people who are with them, who care for them on their journey here. Right. I've seen this firsthand. It just means that they're immediate family are not with them. But like we saw in the State of the Union last night, right? When the Trump administration talks about migrants, it wants to talk about people who kill children. Right. Like that. That. That is the. The thing that they. Or hurt children, that it's a thing that they trusted out a couple of times last night. It is not the migrants who are hurting children in this instance. It is the government. These children who came here on their own to be safe with very few options. Right. And, and either their parents couldn't look after them or the parents aren't around anymore. There is not a more sympathetic case. Right. There is not a clearer example of people we should be looking after as a state or a community or a nation or whatever. And the fact that they're trying to turn these children around and boot them back to the dangerous situation they came from is really morally appalling. We'll keep reporting on it because I think it is a very important thing to shed more light on.

Robert Evans (50:13)

Absolutely.

Garett (50:14)

It's horrifying.

James Stout (50:16)

Yeah.

Garett (50:17)

Just on a basic moral level, like being the person whose job it is and apparently doing this job of trying to construct fake legal arguments so you can fucking deport children. Like, what the fuck?

James Stout (50:32)

Yeah.

Garett (50:33)

Just so evil.

James Stout (50:35)

Yeah. It's. It's horrible. Like the, the. You know, I've spent a lot of time with migrants. I spent a lot of time with migrants with children and I've known plenty of children who are traveling without their parents.

Garett (50:47)

Yeah.

James Stout (50:48)

And the things that they go through just to get here are horrific. And the things that they are going away from are probably worse. And to think that those kids could be booted back to the places that they fled within 72 hours of arrival before they're transferred to or right after months, potentially years. Is it? Yeah. It's genuinely appalling to me. Like, few of these things shock me, but they still disgust me. And I, I really hope that this is something that will continue to get coverage not just here, but elsewhere. Because like, these are the most egregious wrongs that the immigration system does. Yeah.

Robert Evans (51:27)

Let's take a quick break and then Mia will be back with some tariff talk.

Sponsor Voice (51:40)

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally time type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S P500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures tired

Sponsor Voice 2 (52:40)

of spills and stains on your sofa? Wash away your worries with Annabe. Annabe is the only designer sofa that's machine washable inside and out. Starting at just $699 plus, annabe sofas are are pet friendly, stain resistant and feature changeable slipcovers and modular pieces. Get up to 60% off site wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Visit washablesofas.com to get yours now that's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply this is Radhi

Radhi Devlukia (53:12)

Deblookia from a really good Cry. I absolutely love getting outside. Whether it's a quick walk or a mindful few steps between meetings or even a longer run to just clear my head. But the one thing that can really ruin that for me is shoes that just don't feel right. That's why I started wearing Altra Running with the Altra Fit. Every step feels comfortable, balanced and strong, like my feet can finally move freely. What really stood out to me was the roomy toe box. My toes actually now have room to spread out which makes movement feel more natural and comfortable. And when your feet aren't cramped, you feel more balanced. Like every step has a strong stable foundation. I've noticed that with extra space, my feet foot muscles get to work building strength so I can actually move with more confidence. Altra fits and moves with you no matter your pace or your goals. Beginner or marathon runner. They've really become my go to for any kind of running or training and I always feel like my feet can do exactly what they're meant to do. Feel the difference by visiting altrarunning.com and use my code CRY10 for 10% off. That's Altra A L T R A running.com experience ultra and stay out there.

Podcast Announcer (54:14)

Discover a spectacular island destination with crystal blue seas, endless sunshine and the cool Bahamian breeze. Baja Mar, located in Nassau, Bahamas, offers your choice of three luxury hotels, over 45 fine dining and nightlife venues, John Batiste's All New Jazz Club, the Caribbean's most luxurious casino, and one of a kind experiences for the entire family like our 15 acre tropical water park, wildlife sanctuary, sanctuary, world class golf course, and so much more. Visit bajamar.com today.

James Stout (54:48)

Oh, what's that? Oh, is it, Is it the. The dulcet tones of someone who isn't Joe Strummer singing the worst Clash song?

Robert Evans (55:13)

I love how consistent you are with that, James.

James Stout (55:16)

It's the worst Clash song. It really pisses me off. Like, like people, they think, oh, the Clash. And then they go, no, the song that they played while they were bombing Iraq in 1991 that made Joe Drama cry and wish he hadn't written it. Yeah, Appalled. Listen to other Clash songs, please.

Garett (55:32)

Oh, God. Speaking of clashes.

Robert Evans (55:37)

Wow.

Garett (55:38)

We have finally learned the results of the long awaited Supreme Court case about specifically the tariffs that were implemented through the International Emergency Economic Powers Act. Those have been struck down. So this is the retaliatory tariffs. This is the Liberation Day stuff, the ones on Canada and Mexico. Some of the tariffs are still in effect. We will get to that in a second. Like, for example, the aluminum and steel ones, et cetera, et cetera, are still in effect. I'm going to be doing a full episode about this case and about what's going on with tariff policy now, because it's very convoluted and weird. But what's important for our purposes here is that in a lot of ways this is a very narrow ruling in that it is just specifically about this one act, iepa. And what it specifically, very narrowly says is that the IEEPA does not give Trump the authority to do tariffs. What it doesn't say anything about is his ability to use other acts. And we're going to talk about that in a second to do tariffs. And it also doesn't say anything. And I think this is actually very important about the completely unhinged state of emergencies that he's been declaring in order to be able to use iepa. And that's also going to be very important in a little bit because. Because there's no ruling on that, he's probably going to be able to do some of this stuff with other tariffs. So basically, immediately after this ruling, Trump imposed a 10% tariff across the board using Section 122 of the Trade act of 1974. So he implements it at 10%, and then the next day he says it's going to be 15%. The current rate as of date of recording on Wednesday, the one that's actually being assessed at customs, is 10%, because he hasn't signed an executive order to actually lift the 15%. It's all very weird. It's all very sort of extremely chaotic. So right now, the 15% hasn't gone through. But I want to talk about this Section 122 thing that he's using right now, because this is a significantly less broad authority than the authority he was claiming before. So. Okay, first off, it's worth noting that section 122 has literally never been used to enforce terrorists before for reasons we'll get into in a second because it's very weird. And it's also going to be very, very difficult to do the kind of Calvin Ball tariff policy Trump was implementing where he just sort of says a thing and a tariff appears. So the thing about 122 is that instead of the thing that Trump was doing before where he was just tweeting out a tariff rate for an individual country because he was mad at them, section 122, it only allows you to set a flat tariff rate for every country in the world, and the maximum tariff rate is capped at 15%. The other thing that's notable about this is that Section 122 tariffs also need to be approved by Congress after 150 days, at least in theory. The Cato Institute, interestingly, is arguing that Trump theoretically could just extend it for another 150 days after the first one. But this is. This would be a huge mess because there's no way he can win a tariff vote in Congress. There's just absolutely no way. Now, the other important aspect of this that's very weird that I think is going to become a very large sort of point of discussion in the coming weeks is that section 122. So I've read this section. It says specifically, quote, it can only be used to levy tariffs, quote, whenever fundamental international payment problems require special import measures to restrict imports. One to deal with large and serious United States balance of payment deficits.

Robert Evans (59:39)

Now, that's vague.

James Stout (59:41)

Yeah.

Garett (59:41)

Oh, yeah. Well, but here's the thing, though. Here's. Here's the thing. So I tried to write a version of this where I tried to explain balance of payments and what a balance of payment deficit is. I'm going to do that in the other episode. It's too convoluted. But what's really important about this is that Trump has been complaining about trade deficits and the state of emergencies over trade deficit. A trade deficit is not a balance of payment deficit. Balance of payments is an accounting identity that has to do with like, it's literally like the sum of all exchanges between Everyone in the US and everyone outside of the US So you by definition can't have a deficit in it because it's the accounting identity. It tracks both sides, right? So if someone in the US Is sending money to someone, it tracks both the fact that the U.S. person sent the money and the fact that the other person got the money. So you can't have a deficit because it's always one to one, because it's tracking both. Right.

Robert Evans (60:33)

So you're saying the limit does not exist.

Garett (60:36)

Yeah, it's, it's unhinged and like, you know, and specifically for the U.S. right, it is, it is possible to get into trouble with balance of payments if you can't just print your currency. Like if your currency is on the gold standard, you could in theory get in trouble here. Now, a notable thing about the United States is that we are not on the gold standard.

James Stout (60:56)

Yeah.

Garett (60:57)

So we, we literally, even if you use definitions of balance of payment where you could theoretically have one of these problems, the US Cannot have a balance of payments crisis. It cannot, it definitionally cannot have one of these. Right. And the thing about this, right, is you're going to hear a lot of people talking about how the US Is a balance of payments crisis. If the US Was having an actual serious balance of payments deficit right now, there would be riots in the streets. And that's not an exaggeration. This is normally what happens. Normally balance payments crises are a country owes a bunch of money and they straight up do not have enough US dollars to pay that off. And when that happens, things happen. Like Suddenly there's like 500 person lines outside of every gas station because there's not enough money to import gas. Right? Like you can't import food. It's like, like that is what happens when there's balance of payments crises, right? This is like Sri Lanka in 2024. And like, that's the kind of thing where you get a balance of payments crisis and people burn down the presidential mansion. Like, we don't have one. This is not happening. So there's already becoming an attempt to be like, oh, the US Is balance payments deficit. There's a crisis. No, no, no, no, no. Nonsense, gibberish. You're going to hear this a lot. It's complete nonsense. And it's one of the things that makes me look at this and go, okay, this is the immediate one that he picks. But like, this is not going to survive in court. Because the specific line here where it says fundamental international payment problems, like we don't have fundamental international Payment problems. Like we, we pay. Yeah, all of this gets paid every year. It's funny, in the executive order, it says the US Sometimes has international payment problems and. No, it doesn't. It has never had international payment problems, like, on any kind of real scale. The closest thing you can do is look back at periods when the US Was again on the gold standard, and even then we were fined. Like, it's, it's complete gibberish. I'm pissed about this. I'm annoyed that I have to go back to balance of payment stuff, but this. So this is probably not going to hold up when the inevitable next lawsuit goes under. However, comma, there are a couple of other trade authorities that he can use that they've been talking about using, and some of them have been used already. So broadly, we've been talking about, like, two kinds of tariffs on this show. We've been talking about the tariffs that are on a specific country, and those are the ones that are basically gone. We'll get to the one exception to that in a second. And then there's been the ones that are on goods. So if you remember, like, there was, there was a tariff recently on, like, vanity cabinets, like, stuff like that.

James Stout (63:24)

Yeah, yeah, I do remember that one. Yeah. Really weird niche things.

Garett (63:28)

Oh, James, wait. Wait till I talk about what the legal authority of tariffs on kitchen cabinets was.

James Stout (63:36)

There's a special constitutional exemption for those.

Garett (63:39)

It's so bad. Okay, so, so this, this is, this is the section 232 of the, of the Trade Act 1974. These are these specific tariffs, and these ones are supposed to be tariffs on goods in response to threats to national security. So it's.

James Stout (63:56)

Yeah, hang on, join the dots for me.

Garett (63:58)

The price of imported cabinets be too low. Is it threat to national security?

James Stout (64:06)

Threat to national security.

Garett (64:08)

It's funny because, okay, this is the one the legal experts think actually can potentially survive challenges because it's national security. But it's like, okay, like, I get our Supreme Court. The fact that this ruling was 6 to 3 is frankly ridiculous, given that, again, Trump was pretending he had legal authority to issue tariffs in a bill that literally never says the word tariff and had never been used to raise a tariff before. Okay, so like, the Supreme Court was like, okay, well, that's nonsense. And even I, who is extremely cynical about the Supreme Court, do not think that you can compellingly argue in front of a court and this probably won't even go to the Supreme Court like that. You can compellingly argue that is, it is part of the national security Interest of the United States that American cabinet makers mildly out compete foreign cabinet makers.

Robert Evans (64:54)

Wow.

James Stout (64:55)

Yeah, That's a weird one. I. I mean, yeah, national security and like terrorism are the magic words when it comes to the Constitution, but.

Garett (65:03)

Yeah, but in this case, okay, like, I really, seriously, with a straight face, gonna walk up there and go, national security threat. Yeah.

James Stout (65:16)

They've done some wild stuff in the court. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was interesting to. What, like you say, you were saying, like, how much they'll get past the court. It was interesting to watch the Supreme Court justices in the State of the Union just like. Oh, yeah, just grimacing through it.

Garett (65:31)

Yep, yep, yep, yep. He was so mad at them.

Robert Evans (65:34)

They're usually pretty stoic, but there was a serious grimace action going on.

Garett (65:39)

Yeah, yeah.

James Stout (65:41)

There was no attempt to hide that particular face. Right.

Garett (65:44)

Yeah.

Robert Evans (65:45)

I don't know if we've ever had a sitting president like, scold the Supreme Court in a State of the Union in that way.

Garett (65:53)

I think maybe it is possible FDR did it.

James Stout (65:57)

Yeah. I was going to say, I can

Garett (65:58)

see FDR did try to pack the court at one point.

James Stout (66:02)

Yeah, yeah.

Garett (66:03)

That was at least funnier.

James Stout (66:06)

Or at least back in the day when they used to like fight on the floor of Congress, like something back then.

Robert Evans (66:12)

Those were the days.

Garett (66:14)

So there's one more trade thing I think we're talking about here in terms of where more tariff authority can come from. And that's section 301 of that same Tariff act. And this is the one where. So a lot of the tariffs on China are actually still in effect because a lot of those tariffs are actually from the first Trump administration and then Biden continued them because it's. Yeah, they hate China. I quite seriously do not have a better explanation than that.

James Stout (66:46)

Yeah.

Garett (66:47)

But session 301 is specifically for, quote, unfair trade practices.

James Stout (66:53)

Yeah. No, like, unfair is such a strange word to use in legislation. Right. Like, what do we, what do we mean by that?

Garett (67:02)

Well, so like in the original context, it was like supposed to be an anti protectionist thing.

James Stout (67:08)

Okay.

Garett (67:09)

But it's also like, yeah, people are like, oh my God, it's unfair that, like the Chinese companies get money from the governments. And I'm like, all of you get money from the government all the time. What are you talking like?

James Stout (67:19)

Yeah, like, and like, are they talking about, like, is it unfair that wages are lower in certain countries? You know?

Garett (67:25)

Yeah. And it's just like, you look at this, it's like, okay, the U.S. the entire U.S. agriculture industry, like, all of the corn grown in this country is grown because they pass an ag bill every single year that does subsidies that are literally illegal for, like, any other country to have because they specifically got agreements carved out of the free trade statutes. It's absolutely ridiculous. But, you know, this is the one that he's been able to sort of use so far. So I think this is going to be the one that's going to be leaned on once the Trump people sort of remember they have it. But the problem with using 301 is that there's actual bureaucratic steps you have to do. Like, you have to, like, convene a bunch of trade authorities and you have to have, like a specific anti competitive practice.

James Stout (68:08)

Okay.

Garett (68:09)

So this is also, I think, going to be very vulnerable to legal challenges, except probably on China, because you actually have to go through and designate what the legal practices are. And I mean, usually the process takes months, even when you're moving quickly. So there's also, I guess, what I would call the sort of like the secret dark mode option where they just start doing the nightmare stuff. This is something that I think it was Hazlett, one of Trump's officials talked about this last year, is potentially using the Smoot Harley Tariff act.

James Stout (68:46)

Like the 1930s.

Garett (68:49)

Yep.

James Stout (68:49)

Yeah.

Garett (68:50)

Yeah, the one, the one that is very famous for exacerbating the Great Depression.

James Stout (68:53)

Yeah, that one I learned about in high school. Yep. Yeah.

Garett (68:59)

It's also the other thing about this. Right. Is this act is not on the books anymore.

James Stout (69:04)

Okay.

Garett (69:05)

Because. Well, so, okay, so I've seen conflicting explanations of it. Some people are just confused. I think the explanation of it that I've seen is that it was superseded by sections of the 1974 Trade Act.

James Stout (69:14)

Okay.

Garett (69:15)

So it's not even clear if this is in effect, but this is in theory, like the sort of like dark maga, like we're reaching into the bag and pulling trade authority out of something button they could reach for.

James Stout (69:27)

Right, yeah. Which they've done before with like Title 42 and stuff. Right, yeah. Title 42 is to stop people with tuberculosis. Like back in the day. That was the idea behind it. And they pulled it out in 2020. Right. And then Biden just like the tariffs kept it for much longer than Trump.

Garett (69:43)

Yeah. But I think, I think this is, and this is, I think actually a very significant moment for the Supreme Court. And I think central bank independence will eventually become this if and when this gets to the courts.

James Stout (69:54)

Yeah.

Garett (69:54)

But tariffs are sort of the red line for a couple of Supreme Court justices who normally side with Trump just specifically because a I mean, it just says in the Constitution that tariffs are specifically a thing that Congress does. So you can't just be like, oh, they gave me the power to do this unless they like explicitly said it. But then B, it's, it's. This is, this is the financial red light. Right. Like, this is. This, this is the point at which you're fucking with the money. So this is the point where the Supreme Court was like, you know, we've let you just make up laws in a whole bunch of other cases, but this is, this is the actual limit of it when it comes to authority. That really significantly, like destroys the American economy.

James Stout (70:36)

Yeah, like the, the economy has more rights than people do.

Garett (70:40)

Yeah, absolutely. This is the way that it's always been. I also want to mention one closing thing on the tariffs is that the Supreme Court didn't answer the question of if people are going to get their money back and how the refunds are going to work.

Robert Evans (70:52)

Sure didn't.

Garett (70:53)

Nope. And I think it's because they couldn't get agreement on it because this ruling is kind of a mess in that it's like this like weird fractured coalition of justices or like parts of them agree on part of it and there's like parts of the opinion that are agreed by. To. By a plurality of the corp. And not a majority. Very weird. But, yeah, they have no idea how this is going to work. There's already lawsuits going on to get the money back that have been in place already. So presumably some kind of data redispensation is going to happen. It's going to be unbelievably chaotic.

James Stout (71:24)

Okay.

Garett (71:24)

But we will, we will keep you updated on, on how, How American trade negotiations go.

James Stout (71:31)

Yeah. Okay.

Robert Evans (71:33)

We reported the news.

James Stout (71:36)

Yeah.

Robert Evans (71:37)

Put a trans girl on your couch.

Garett (71:39)

Oh, actually, Okay. I have one also really bleak update on put a trans girl on your couch, which is. We actually got numbers. Well, they're technically not the first numbers we've gotten, but we got actual good numbers on the number of trans people who've moved who've like fled their state like just from mid 2024 to mid 2025. The statistics suggest that it's. It's 10% of all trans people, which is 400,000 people. I think that's likely an undercount. And that's just the first half of 2025.

Robert Evans (72:09)

Yeah.

Garett (72:10)

That is a humanitarian crisis. Like, this is an internal migration crisis. Right. These are, these are internally. These have become internally displaced people.

Robert Evans (72:18)

Yes.

Garett (72:18)

And yeah, it's hideous. And the least that we can do at this moment is putting trans people on your couch.

James Stout (72:28)

Yeah.

Garett (72:28)

Because the violence that they're fleeing is intensifying.

James Stout (72:31)

Yeah. A lot of people actually reached out to our email. Our email is coolzonetipson me. And that's mostly for things that you know that we should report on, not for just like general episode ideas. If you're trying to be a be a source for us or have some tip of something that you become aware of this and being reported, it's not for like Robert should do this episode on Bastards. It's not. I just want to emphasize once again that it is not there.

Robert Evans (72:59)

There is a there. If you want to do that, go to the bastard subreddit. There is a section for that.

James Stout (73:05)

Thank you. But a lot of people had reached out to be like I want to do this, but I don't know of anyone and obviously I don't want to be like posting online like trans folks come to my house because that seems like weirdo behavior. So that's something we will try and aggress like in a more general kind of mutual aid focused series of episodes that we'll work on. But those people. It is good that you are trying to do something. Yeah.

Robert Evans (73:30)

We reported the news.

Sponsor Voice (73:34)

We reported the news.

Robert Evans (73:44)

It could happen. Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for it could Happen here listed directly in Episode Descriptions. Thanks for listening.

Sponsor Voice 2 (74:07)

Kids Pets Life. Your sofa sees it all. But with a washable sofa, stains don't stand a chance. All of our sofa collections come with fully machine washable covers and cushions, making cleanup effortless. Liquid and stain resistant fabrics provide extra protection against everyday messes. Plus, with modular designs, you can rearrange your sofa however you like. Perfect for growing families and changing spaces. Starting at just $699, it's time to upgrade to a stress free mess proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Radhi Devlukia (74:38)

This is Radhi Devlukia from a really good cry. I absolutely love getting outside. Whether it's a quick walk or a mindful few steps between meetings or even a longer run to just clear my head. But the one thing that can really ruin that for me is shoes that just don't feel right. That's why I started wearing Altra running with the Ultra fit. Every step feels comfortable, balanced and strong. Like my feet can finally move freely. What really stood out to me was the roomy toe box. My toes actually now have room to spread out, which makes movement feel more natural and comfortable. And when your feet aren't cramped, you feel more balanced. Like every step has a strong, stable foundation. I've noticed that with extra space, my foot muscles get to work building strength so I can actually move with more confidence. Altra fits and moves with you no matter your pace or your goals. Beginner or marathon runner, they've really become my go to for any kind of running or training and I always feel like my feet can do exactly what they're meant to do. Feel the difference between by visiting altrarunning.com and use my code CRY10 for 10% off. That's Altra A L T R A running.com Experience Altra and stay out there

Podcast Announcer (75:41)

Discover a spectacular island destination with crystal blue seas, endless sunshine and the cool Bahamian breeze. Baha Mar, located in Nassau, Bahamas, offers your choice of three luxury hotels. The richly refined Roseway, the playfully hip SLS and the stylishly modern Grand Hyatt. With over 45 restaurants, bars and lounges, Baja Mar serves up delicious dining from world renowned chefs like Daniel Boulud and Marcus Samuelsson, nightlife venues like the new Jean Baptiste Jazz Club and the Caribbean's most luxurious casino. At Baja Mar, you'll find every pleasure under the sun and one of a kind experiences for the entire family like Baja Bay, our 15 acre lush tropical water park, interactive wildlife experiences including our daily flamingo parade, world class golf, tennis spa and so much more. Visit bajamar.com today and discover a vacation destination where memories are made for a lifetime. Baha Mar Life Spectacular There's a fire

Sponsor Voice 2 (76:41)

inside you you can't ignore. Stand still.

Robert Evans (76:44)

Not a chance.

Sponsor Voice 2 (76:45)

You're a lifelong learner who's coming this far. Now we are here to help you keep going further. Capella University what can't you do? Visit capella.edu to learn more.

Podcast Announcer (76:55)

This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.