Executive Disorder: White House Weekly #9

Summary

It Could Happen Here – Executive Disorder: White House Weekly #9
Release Date: March 28, 2025
Hosts: Garrison Davis, James Stout, Robert Evans

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode’s central focus is the now-infamous “Houthi PC Small Group” Signal group chat security breach in the Trump White House, and the wide-ranging fallout from this—both as an object lesson in the perils of digital security at the highest levels of government, and as a window into a broader collapse of political norms and escalation of government repression. The crew also examines ongoing immigration abuses, ICE tactics against student protestors, and the continued targeting of Palestinian journalists in Gaza.

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Group Chat Mayhem: The Houthi PC Small Group Leak

Context & Timeline ([03:01])

• The episode covers March 20-26.
• The major story is a catastrophic security breach involving a Signal group chat where top Trump administration officials coordinated airstrikes against the Houthis; Atlantic editor Jeffrey Goldberg was accidentally added to this chat.

Signal & Digital Security Breakdown ([04:28])

• Robert patiently explains Signal’s encryption, why non-state actors or technically skilled “exes” are usually required to break in, and the potential vulnerabilities: QR codes and insecure notifications.
  • "When I hear QR code, I reach for my Glock 19." — Robert Evans ([06:52])
  • “Do not use QR codes. Yeah. The work of Satan.” — Garrison Davis ([07:10])

Origins & Purpose of the Group Chat ([07:14])

• Explains how officials wandered around norms: sensitive military planning usually reserved for secure SCIFs was instead carried out over personal devices. Names involved include JD Vance, Pete Hegseth, Tulsi Gabbard, and Stephen Miller.
  • “You got all these people in there… JD Vance, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth... DNI Tulsi Gabbard... head of the CIA...” — Robert Evans ([09:52])

Accidental Invite: Who is Jeffrey Goldberg? ([11:08])

• Atlantic co-editor Jeffrey Goldberg is not an adversary of US natsec policy, nor a left-wing radical:
  • "Not one of our guys... not a guy who's probably broadly opposed to most of what the Trump administration is doing, especially Houthi airstrikes." — James Stout ([12:56])
• Goldberg quickly realizes this must be a mistake, documents carefully, then leaves the group without disclosing sensitive details.
  • “You don’t get invited into a chat with the SEC Def and the head of the CIA planning a military strike. That just doesn’t happen.” — Robert Evans ([14:44])

Notable Messages/Quotes from the Group Chat ([15:13])

• The group’s conversation is brazen and sometimes farcical:
  • “Michael Waltz, vp, Full Stop. Building collapsed. … JD Vance replies. What? Michael Waltz typing too fast. Full stop. The first target—their top missile guy—now it’s collapsed. JD Vance replies, Excellent. … Waltz: [fist emoji][American flag][flame].” — Garrison Davis ([15:25])
  • The group seems oblivious to proper security protocols even as they issue reassurances:
    • “Funniest message in this Signal group is that we’re all good on opsec. Yeah, that he says in a group chat with a journalist.” — James Stout ([17:48])

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Implications & Fallout for the Trump Administration

Political & Legal Response ([17:55], [18:17])

• The administration is expected to retaliate against Goldberg rather than confront its own error.
  • “They are going to try to nuke Jeffrey Goldberg. Like, they’re going to try to send him to prison if not a literal... work camp.” — Robert Evans ([17:55])
• Hypocrisy noted: Administration previously obsessed over digital leaks and harshly punished lower-level personnel for minor security lapses.
• Mainstream press sometimes fails to grasp the severity: “It’s so relatable that they added someone to the group chat!”— USA Today, missing the point that the real error was using insecure, personal channels for classified material ([19:08])
  • “Yeah, but I’ve never bombed Yemen...” — Robert Evans ([19:18])

Major Disinformation and Damage Control ([21:16])

• White House Press Secretary Carolyn Levitt dismisses reporting as a “hoax” and “sensationalist spin,” tries to split legal hairs (“war plans” vs “attack plans”).
  • “Both of these things are kind of ludicrous claims.” — Garrison Davis ([21:33])

International Fallout and Absurdities ([20:03], [21:33])

• Michael Waltz disparages European military capacity, drawing public rebukes from allies:
  • “France has a navy... They could end the world.” — Robert Evans ([20:16])
• Jokes abound about the tone and dynamics of the chat and the inept bureaucracy (“I am the JD Vance of my group chats…”).

Leadership Style: Miller and Trump ([23:29])

• Stephen Miller appears to act as final word, “speaking directly for the President,” with wording that echoes the intentional ambiguity of the Third Reich (“work towards the Führer”).
  • “As I heard it, the President was clear: green light. But we soon make clear to Egypt and Europe what we expect in return.” — Stephen Miller (quoted, [25:19])

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Immigration, ICE, and Repression Escalates

Judicial Updates: Boasberg and Immigrant Detentions ([29:49])

• Judge Boasberg now presides over both secret rendition cases and the Hegseth/Signal lawsuit.
• Government invokes “state secrets” arguments even after catastrophic OPSEC failure.

Targeting Vulnerable Migrants ([30:45], [34:39])

• “Venezuelan migrants are being rounded up using shallow pretexts (tattoos, etc.) despite some having legal refugee status. Detentions result in family separations and abuse.
  • “They sort of randomly grabbed tattooed Venezuelans… some had already been through background checks.” — James Stout ([31:50])

IRS About to Hand Over Tax Records ([32:52])

• For the first time, IRS may give ICE the tax records it previously safe-guarded from immigration enforcement, threatening tax compliance and the wellbeing of millions.

Golden Visa Corruption ([33:56])

• Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick claims to have “sold” 1,000 $5M “gold cards” for immigrant investors, despite no clear process for issuing them and widespread legal confusion.

Humanitarian Crisis at the Border ([34:39])

• Another deadly storm: at least three have died crossing the border this month, highlighting lethal conditions for migrants.

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ICE Targets Student Protestors and the Chilling Effect on Free Speech

Columbia & Tufts: ICE Pursues Student Protestors ([38:24], [43:31])

• Yoon Sao Chung: Permanent resident and student at Columbia, targeted by ICE after participating in protests. The government apparently cannot distinguish between students, green card holders, and “visa” holders but revokes “status” anyway.
  • “The Trump administration is arguing that Chung’s presence in the United States hinders the administration’s foreign policy agenda. One 21 year old student… is hindering their foreign policy agenda for attending a sit-in protest.” — James Stout ([44:38])
• Chung’s lawyers argue this is blatant suppression of protected protest.
  • “Officials at the highest echelons of government are attempting to use immigration enforcement as a bludgeon to suppress speech that they dislike…” ([45:46])
• Temporary restraining order granted—at least delaying deportation.

Tactics: Surveillance, Doxing, Escalation ([48:25])

• Ramesa Ozturk (Tufts): Snatched by masked ICE agents after her name was published by Canary Mission, moved to Louisiana for detention within hours.
  • “There’s very frightening video of her just standing on the sidewalk…” — James Stout ([48:33])
• Government’s use of “harboring non-citizens” warrants sets a precedent for breaking into homes; the aim is to chill protest via intimidation.

Commentary & Broader Concerns

• These events echo tactics of past state terror and demonstrate the administration’s disregard for legal process and constitutional rights.
  • “You are literally, as a 21-year-old junior, being forced to go into hiding because federal agents are after you because you sat down in protest of a genocide.” — James Stout ([52:41])

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Venmo Fails, Tariffs, and Minor Updates

Venmo Security Failure ([35:06])

• National Security Advisor Mike Waltz’s public Venmo reveals frequent contacts with journalists and political operatives, further showcasing the dire state of OPSEC.

Tariffs (and Guinness jokes) ([37:23])

• Trump’s new tariffs could raise imported Guinness to $22-27/pint; the crew jokes about “true value” and the upside of Twisted Tea remaining affordable.

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Gaza: Ongoing War on Journalists

IDF Kills Palestinian Journalists ([54:43])

• Mohammed Mansour and Hassam Shabbat killed in Israeli airstrikes in Gaza, continuing a long string of journalist deaths in the conflict.
  • Highlighted: Shabbat’s posthumous statement, urging the world not to look away from Gaza.
    • “If you’re reading this, it means I have been killed... I did all this because I believe in the Palestinian cause... Keep fighting. Keep telling our stories until Palestine is free.” — Hassam Shabbat ([55:26])

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “When I hear QR code, I reach for my Glock 19.” — Robert Evans ([06:52])
• “You don’t get invited into a chat with the SEC Def and the head of the CIA planning a military strike. That just doesn’t happen.” — Robert Evans ([14:44])
• “The funniest message in this Signal group is that we’re all good on opsec. Yeah, that he says in a group chat with a journalist.” — James Stout ([17:48])
• “They are going to try to nuke Jeffrey Goldberg. Like, they’re going to try to send him to prison if not a literal... work camp.” — Robert Evans ([17:55])
• “Yeah, but I’ve never bombed Yemen...” — Robert Evans ([19:18])
• “You are literally, as a 21-year-old junior, being forced to go into hiding because federal agents are after you because you sat down in protest of a genocide.” — James Stout ([52:41])
• “If you’re reading this, it means I have been killed... Keep telling our stories until Palestine is free.” — Hassam Shabbat ([55:26])

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Timeline of Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|----------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:01 | Show opens: week’s theme and context | | 04:28 | Signal security primer and the breach explained | | 08:30 | Trump admin uses group chat, invited players named | | 11:08 | Jeffrey Goldberg spotlighted; accidental invite detailed | | 15:13 | Absurd group chat dialogue quoted | | 17:55 | Fallout, damage control, and hypocrisy in admin response | | 20:03 | Euro-military “shade,” international reactions | | 23:29 | Stephen Miller, Trump’s leadership, “working towards the Führer”| | 29:49 | Shift to immigration: legal battles, judicial update | | 32:52 | IRS’s changing policy, Gold Cards scheme, border crisis update | | 38:24 | Columbia/ICE student targeting, escalation of protest suppression| | 48:25 | Snatching of Tufts student Ramesa Ozturk, tactics analyzed | | 54:43 | Killings of journalists in Gaza: reading Shabbat’s statement |

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Closing Notes & Resources

• The hosts encourage students and community members to contact them about repression or surveillance on campus via ProtonMail: [e-mail].
• James is working on an upcoming episode about ICE’s targeting of student protestors and “lavender scare”-style suppression of trans military personnel.
• Concludes with a somber call to not lose focus on Gaza.

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Listen if you want:

• Detailed, irreverent breakdown of a historic government security blunder
• Insights into the escalation of state repression, particularly against immigrants and protestors
• Dark humor, sharp analysis, and a lot of quotable moments

Advertising, intro/outro content omitted per instructions

Transcript

[Garrison Davis]

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[Garrison Davis]

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[Robert Evans]

Listen to High Key, a new weekly podcast. You better listen.

[James Stout]

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[Robert Evans]

Nether regions because I read that you're supposed to like get sun not only.

[James Stout]

In your mouth but also in your other orifices.

[Robert Evans]

Wait, are you talking about you put your hole into the sun?

[James Stout]

I did.

[Robert Evans]

That's crazy. Downward dog mooning the sun. I was gonna say. Is it cheeks open? It's cheeks open all the way wide. Is it cheeks?

[Garrison Davis]

Huh? Who's holding them?

[Robert Evans]

Enough of that nonsense.

[James Stout]

Now.

[Robert Evans]

Listen to High key on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

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[Garrison Davis]

Media.

[James Stout]

This is it Could Happen Here. Executive Disorder, our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world, and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis. Today, I'm joined by James Stout and Robert Evans.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, you are.

[James Stout]

This week, we are covering the week of March 20th to March 26th.

[Garrison Davis]

Mm, short week because we did a late recording last week.

[Robert Evans]

Yep, we did.

[James Stout]

So it's minus one day, if my math is correct. It's been a hard week for many of us because we all really care about group chats. And group chat security is super important.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, yeah.

[James Stout]

To kind of anyone involved in politics. And whenever we see a breach of this magnitude, it's really a warning and, like, a threat to all of us. So it has. It has been. It has been a tough week.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Like, a threat to one is a threat to all. So, like, the way I see it, any group chat that gets compromised.

[James Stout]

First they came for Houthi PC small group.

[Robert Evans]

That's right.

[James Stout]

Next they're gonna come.

[Robert Evans]

Could be any of us. Could be any of us. Jeffrey Goldberg could be lurking in your small group. That's you and your girlfriend talking about what kind of pizza to order. He could be there reporting for the Atlantic. You wouldn't know. Unless you, like, looked at who was in there and saw his name. Then you would know, which is true of all of the people in the Houthi PC small group.

[James Stout]

I guess it is actually pretty easy.

[Garrison Davis]

You don't know, Maybe. Maybe Jeffrey Godbird's signal name is, like, CIA super spy or something, and everyone just assumed he belonged there.

[Robert Evans]

I'm going to start at the beginning, because I do assume that actually, like, as impossible as it sounds to those of us who, like, wake up and imbibe fucking social media in the morning, like an addict takes their first hit of crack cocaine, but in a way that's less healthy for both our hearts and our brains, a decent number of people who listen to this podcast have just kind of, like, heard vaguely like, some bits about this.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, they're wondering what the fuck we're talking about.

[Robert Evans]

What are you doing? What are you guys doing? This.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

So we're gonna talk about this group chat. Uh, so first off, couple of basics. So Signal is an app that is end to end encrypted. That means that if you have signal and your buddy has signal and you're messaging each other, it's encrypted. And it is very hard at this point. Unless one of your phones is directly compromised by a non state actor or an ex who's really good with computers. No one else can see what you're messaging each other. So if you and a friend are like planning what to order on fucking GrubHub tonight, when you go play Super Smash Brothers or whatever, you can keep that secret. Or if you and a friend are planning what substances to buy that the government might not want you buying, you can keep that secret. Or if you and your friend simply don't want various media companies taking every detail and phone carriers taking every detail of your life's conversations and turning that into analytics data, you can stop them from doing that. And if maybe one day you might be engaged in speech that the government might not like, you can continue to engage in that speech privately without danger.

[James Stout]

Or with less danger.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Or with. With le. With as little danger as it is possible to do.

[James Stout]

Especially if your messages automatically explode after anywhere between five seconds to one week.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[James Stout]

Which is a feature signal has.

[Robert Evans]

Yes. You can automatically set it to delete stuff over a period of time you want to. If you're going to use it, turn off the thing where it like pushes messages so that you can like see visible notifications. Yeah. Not if you turn them off, because that's a. That. That'll fuck shit up.

[James Stout]

Because then your operating system can read the messages without the encryption.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[James Stout]

Similarly, never open a QR code. This is the really the only way that signal can. Can get compromised on like, scale right now, beyond like physical infiltration. Right. Like what accidentally happened with Houthi PC Small Group. But the main other way that signal can get compromised is through malicious QR codes and unknown links. So really be careful about links, as always on the Internet. And especially be skeptical of QR codes.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. There's a quote from Herman Goering. I think it was from Herman Goering. When I hear the word culture, I reach for my revolver. And I have adapted that Goering quote to the modern era. When I hear QR code, I reach for my Glock 19.

[James Stout]

That's right.

[Robert Evans]

Do not use QR codes. Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

The work of Satan. Let's explain what Houthi PC Small Group is for the people who.

[Robert Evans]

I'm getting to it. So you've got this app which is normally used by and has been used for a long time by, like protesters and dissidents and journalists to communicate with sources because it's very secure. The Trump administration takes office. One thing that they are annoyed about is that when you are government employees, even if you're doing top secret shit, especially if you're doing top secret shit, the kind of meetings about national security, planning for, like, military actions that you are supposed to only have in something called a skiff. And a skiff is basically a room in, you know, the West Wing, I think, or the Pentagon. Right. I'm not 100% sure where all the skiffs are, but it's like a room that is incredibly secure. And it is the only place that you are supposed to have certain kinds of conversations. And in fact, if you are having one of those kinds of conversations in a skiff, no one, not even the president or the vice president is allowed to have a phone in there. It is a very strict rule. You don't take phones into the skiff because none of them are fucking secure. Now, the problem is all these communications, all of this stuff is documented and potentially FOIA able. Maybe not immediately because there's always security concerns. They have the ability to redact stuff.

[James Stout]

But in 20 years, perhaps, but at.

[Garrison Davis]

Some point, yeah, it might be archived, even if it's not foiable.

[Robert Evans]

People who are in charge of our military now didn't like that. And we're like, hey, what if we all just did it through a single group? And they did to plan for an attack that started March 15th against the Houthis. Now, you will remember the Houthis from the episode James and I did. I mean, from other stuff too, because they're all over the news from, you.

[James Stout]

Know, the Houthis, the Houthi stuff.

[Robert Evans]

James and I did an episode recently about a regular naval warfare, and you check it out, that's all still pretty relevant.

[James Stout]

Better known for their other work.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, better known for their other work. The Biden administration was like, we can probably take care of these guys with airstrikes. And it didn't really work. And the Trump administration was like, we can do a better job of taking these guys out with airstrikes. And at this point, it's too early to say if it worked or not, but I'm gonna guess probably didn't.

[James Stout]

Probably not.

[Robert Evans]

Just generally, given the history, maybe they say they killed a lot more high value targets and top missile guys, main missile guy, quote, I don't know. I don't know. I'm not privy to the information they're working off of or how much it matters at this point. Right. So we'll see.

[Garrison Davis]

You're not in that signal chat, Robert.

[Robert Evans]

I'm not in that signal chat. They have not accidentally added.

[James Stout]

I'm in too many signal chats, frankly.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, Yeah. I could be and I might not know.

[James Stout]

Yeah, we all are in too many.

[Garrison Davis]

I might be in several government ones and be totally unaware of it because there's too many notifications on my phone.

[James Stout]

That shit's muted. I'm not seeing that.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

So they decide we're going to plan an attack on some Houthis. We're going to be hitting them with stuff, and we should probably all get. We need to get all of these different kind of people from different chunks of the, you know, the government together. So we got to have JD Vance and his representative, because usually Vance is too busy to respond. And we got to have the Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, and his representative. We got to have the dni, Tulsi Gabbard, her representative. We got to have the head of the CIA, his representative. You know, that kind of thing. There's a few more people in there.

[James Stout]

Mark Rubio.

[Robert Evans]

Mark Rubio, right. Sex estate, you know, and his representative. Right.

[James Stout]

Stephen Miller.

[Robert Evans]

Stephen Miller. I don't know that Miller had a representative. He feels like he handles a lot of this stuff on his own, but. Yeah, on his phone. Too much. Stephen Miller.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[James Stout]

Chronically online. Stephen Miller, Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

And you have the head of. I think CENTCOM was in there. Anyway, you got all these people in there, and while they're setting this up, all the invites are going out. Because the way you do it with Signal is you click a button that says, like, start a new group. You name the new group. In this case, they named the group Houthi. PC Small Group. Right. And shit. What does PC stand for in this?

[James Stout]

Politically correct. Which, honestly, I thought that we were over.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, you'd think so, huh?

[Garrison Davis]

Don't say any slurs in the group chat. That's what. It's just a reminder.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah. No slurs in the small group chat.

[Garrison Davis]

Planning committee, I'm guessing.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, planning committee. Houthi Planning committee. Small group. Sorry, I had that written down somewhere. So they make this group chat and they invite a bunch of people. And here's the way. One of the ways Signal works is that, like, if you're just importing your contacts into Signal, it'll find the guys who have Signal, and it'll just, like, show you, based on whatever your name you have for them in their phone. Right. That they're on signal and you can just invite them. Otherwise you can set what your signal name is going to be. And so when people type in your phone number or whatever, they'll see that. Or if you send them an invite, that's the name they'll see. And this brings us, I got to take an aside to talk about a guy who is not a member of the Trump administration and who is not a member of government. A man named Jeffrey Goldberg. Born in 1965, he is currently the co editor of the Atlantic. Prior to this, he had what some people would call an illustrious career. He grew up in Malvern and Long Island.

[Garrison Davis]

Shorty Malvern.

[Robert Evans]

And I'm Malvern. Yeah. I'm looking at his wiki here, which just has the line that his neighborhood was mainly Catholic and he described it as a wasteland of Irish pogromists.

[Garrison Davis]

Oh, jeez. I bet he had a fun childhood.

[Robert Evans]

So, okay. Interesting, interesting, Jeffrey, fascinating stuff there.

[James Stout]

Interesting.

[Robert Evans]

So after college, or kind of while he's in college, he leaves and he goes to Israel because he wants to serve in the IDF during the intifada, the first one as a prison guard.

[James Stout]

Jesus Christ.

[Robert Evans]

Which is where Palestinian participants in the intifa were being held. And yeah, he had like an interesting conversation with this PLO leader who was also like a math teacher who I guess they were able to like discuss their Zionism or whatever in some way that he found useful. Anyway, weird guy. Not a, I bring this up to be like, not a left wing radical.

[James Stout]

Like not one of, quote, unquote, our guys. Right.

[Robert Evans]

Not one of our guys. Not a guy who's probably broadly opposed to most of, and in fact to most of what the Trump administration is.

[James Stout]

Doing over this, especially Houthi airstrikes, frankly.

[Robert Evans]

Yes. Now he has pissed off, it's fair to say he has really pissed off Trump a number of times. Right. Because he wrote some articles. He wrote that 2020 article in the Atlantic about when Trump said. Got caught saying that Americans who died in wars are losers and suckers.

[Garrison Davis]

Yes.

[Robert Evans]

Which is, you know, based on sourcing that he had. So he's also attracted their ire. But he's again, generally, I would say, like more on the bootlickery side of things. Like he's just kind of like a natsec cheerleader. Right. That would be a fair way to describe Jeffrey.

[James Stout]

Totally.

[Robert Evans]

I don't know that he would entirely disagree with that description of himself, you know? Yeah.

[James Stout]

Like a neolib guy.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. That said, he's not so much of one that he's unwilling to report critical Stuff which is what happens here. So he gets an invite on his phone that it just takes him into this PC Houthi small group, and people have done the work. There's another guy in the Trump administration whose initials are J.C. john Greenbrier, I believe. Yeah, I think it was John Greenbrier. And the person who. Because there was some debate initially about, like, who invited him, because after this came out, there were allegations that he snuck his way in or whatever. We now know, based on the evidence, that he was inadvertently invited by National Security Advisor Michael Waltz. Right.

[James Stout]

As evidenced by the signal.

[Garrison Davis]

Screenshots. Yes, yes, yes.

[Robert Evans]

There's lots of screenshots. Jeffrey did his, you know, the job of documenting eventually, right? Yes, well, he documented it right away.

[James Stout]

Yes.

[Robert Evans]

So now here's the thing from the beginning here. Jeffrey is having the natural reaction. I will say this, for all my critiques of him, he has the reaction I think any minimally competent journalist would have. Someone's fucking with me.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah. Yeah.

[James Stout]

This is like something to get me. Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

You don't get invited into a chat with the SEC Def and the head of the CIA planning a military strike.

[Garrison Davis]

Right.

[Robert Evans]

That just doesn't happen.

[Garrison Davis]

I've been a journalist for a while. That's not occurred to me.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it's not. Does not really go down. So he's, like, trying to figure out what the fuck's going on, like, what's happening. And he's like. He's making a note. He's documenting. Stuff is there. And they're talking about, like, weapons packages. Like, these are the kind of weapons. This is where they're striking. And then as the strikes go in, they're being like this guy headed into his girlfriend's house. We're hitting it. House blew up. He's dead. Right.

[Garrison Davis]

That particular exchange was very funny because the way he phrased it was like. It completely baffled JD Vance. Yes. Let me pull this up because it was. It was pretty funny.

[Robert Evans]

No, please, please.

[Garrison Davis]

Michael Waltz, vp, Full Stop. Building collapsed. Full Stop. Had multiple positive id. Full stop. Pete Carilla, the ic. Amazing job. JD Vance replies. What? Michael Waltz typing too fast. Full stop. The first target, M Dash. Their top missile guy. M Dash. We have positive idea of him walking into his girlfriend's building, and now it's collapsed. And then JD Robots replies. Excellent. At this point, Michael Waltz responds with the fist emoji, American flag emoji, flame emoji.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. So it's great. And once it becomes very clear what's happening, number one, rather than stay in the group, see if Maybe he could get invited to other groups, just kind of like, keep track of what was going on. Again, being a guy who's like, primary concern, and I really do think Goldberg's primary concern here was the security of U. S. Soldiers, like the national security.

[James Stout]

Of the United States.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Robert Evans]

As opposed to, like, is any of this legal? Are they, like, what, like, his is just like, these people are not being secure, like, with. I mean, like, this. This could, if the wrong person got invited into a group like this, it could potentially endanger the lives of airmen and stuff. That's not my primary concern with all this. Right. But that is his, you know, and so he hops out of the group, he leaves, and he puts out this article and he redacts most other than the what's happened, which is a story in and of itself. He, like, goes out of his way. Like, there's people who are like, in intelligence that are in this. That he has their names and he's like, I am not naming them because they're serving intelligence officers. And that's a no, no. He doesn't, like, specifically give up other than that this is happening. Anything that's, like, particularly dangerous. Right. But this is the kind of thing, as soon as it comes out, obviously it's a, it's a furor. And it's unlike most of the time when everybody gets, like, pissed, it seems like it might have some legs because it's just such a what the fuck moment. Right.

[James Stout]

And it's so contrary to, like, so much of the messaging coming from, from the Trump administration regarding, you know, like.

[Garrison Davis]

Digital security, Hillary's emails, prosecuting individual soldiers for any like, like, you know, losing a night vision goggle. Right. Is this kind of the classic one.

[James Stout]

Leaking information how administration is going to. Going to. Going to crack down on all information leaks, you know, that sort of stuff.

[Garrison Davis]

At one point, access says, we are clear for opsec, which I thought was pretty funny.

[James Stout]

The funniest message in this signal group is that we're all good on opsec. Yeah, that he says in a group chat with a journalist.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah, it's super funny. Everything that's happening here is very funny. I basically want to move on to, like, what's, what's going to happen next, which is they are going to try to nuke Jeffrey Goldberg. Like, they're going to try to send him to a prison, if not a literal, like, El Salvadorian work camp. Right. Like that. That is going to be their next goal here.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, he embarrassed these people, like, to an extent that it's, I mean anyone in uniform would have been court martialed for this kind of security fuck up. Oh yeah, yeah.

[Robert Evans]

I mean in times of war in the past, if like the version of this had happened in World War II, they would have just executed whatever soldier did this.

[Garrison Davis]

Like, yeah, you don't have to be a spy if you're incompetent enough to just bumble into shit. It's the same result. I did want to address really quickly like a couple of things. One, I saw this USA Today article that was like, oh, it's so relatable that they made this mistake of adding someone to the group chat. That was not the mistake. The mistake was coordinating things that should be classified, things that should be quote unquote high side on personal devices using signal as opposed to a State department or government issued device which doesn't have your personal contacts to avoid all this. Like a device which is not hackable, a device which has not been exposed to QR codes, for example.

[James Stout]

Yeah. Make sure that in your context there's not two guys named jg.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Stout]

So you might add the wrong JG to your Yemen bombing chat.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Haven't we all added the wrong person to a group chat? And it's like, I mean, yeah, but I've never like bombed Yemen.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Stout]

Like for bombing Yemen.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, yeah. It's not the same thing. It's not the same thing as a birthday party. Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Like I have two friends named John and I added the wrong one to a group about like planning a mutual friend's birthday party. But like again, minimal damage.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no service people's lives are put at risk. I did also want to point out this. At one point Waltz says, or Michael Walls, who's a national security advisor.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Not the other one.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, that would have been pretty funny. They'd have him as well if he.

[Robert Evans]

Was just in there. They're like, yeah, he seems cool. Put him in the group.

[Garrison Davis]

Dude likes to shoot phasm's.

[James Stout]

Apparently he seems to be friends with J.D. vance. Wouldn't be surprising.

[Garrison Davis]

So one of the things Walsh says, which is bizarre, is that European navies are incapable of defeating Houthi weapon systems, which just isn't true. Like there was a coalition of 20 different states running operations in the Red.

[Robert Evans]

Sea last year and against like France has a navy, like they've got nuclear submarines. They could end the world.

[Garrison Davis]

To cite one example, HMS diamond, which is a British ship, shot down a Houthi missile last year. The UK also airstruck Houthi targets last year.

[Robert Evans]

Like, I've watched the UK carry out airstrikes. I feel like they're very capable.

[Garrison Davis]

What the Houthis have is Iranian 358s to just get really nerdy for a second. Right. Which are not really a threat to modern fighter aircraft. It's like a loitering munition. Maybe a drone.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

But no aircraft. Not a manned or personed aircraft.

[Robert Evans]

The primary point of how the Houthis are conducting their strikes is not we're going to knock all of these ships out of the sea. It's, it's. It will. It will create an unsustainable insurance situation for a lot of merchants. If there's just always kind of missiles, even if we never really, or almost never hit anybody, that doesn't really matter. You gotta deal with the insurance thing.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah. They're gonna make that much more expensive and that. That. That particular part of global trade much more difficult to conduct. So far, the Trump administration has doubled down on its response. This is pretty funny. Carolyn Levitt on Twitter, X, I guess, called Goldberg.

[James Stout]

She's the White House press secretary, I believe.

[Garrison Davis]

Press. That's correct, yeah. White House press secretary. She called Goldberg a, quote, Trump hater and also claimed the story was a, quote, hoax and a, quote, sensationalist spin. They are also right now claiming that, quote, war plans and, quote, attack plans are different things. The information they leaked was too specific to constitute a war plan. Both of these things are kind of ludicrous claims. Right. Like, very clearly, this is stuff that should be classified very clearly. It's stuff that put those people's lives at risk in the event that the Houthis had any means to respond to, like, F18s, which I don't think they do really. Like, I don't know. But, you know, Iran, who. Who absolutely is a state backer of the Houthis, does have the ability, at least in theory. They. They kind of haven't. They've kind of shown their ass a bit in the last year or two with Israeli strikes in Iran.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. It's not the ability to, like, easily interdict these kind of strikes, but certainly the ability to. And more importantly, kind of the ability to survive them, to, like, mitigate the damage that they can do.

[Garrison Davis]

Sure, sure. To go underground or go somewhere else. And those planes are vulnerable when they're at, like, certain points in their trajectory, I think. So, you know.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

It's generally very poor to broad to broadcast exactly what you're doing when, where, and how.

[Robert Evans]

It's kind of Just a basic of like military stuff that you really don't want people to know exactly when you're sending dudes in to do what?

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, yeah, there was a very funny meme going around which basically had like imagined if the same discussion had been had about d day in 1944 and yeah, that wouldn't have gone so well if they had broadcast.

[Robert Evans]

There are a lot of great posts. I'm looking at one by Katie Nautopoulos on Twitter right now. Having read through the full Houthi PC small group blogs, I've come to the sad realization that I am the JD Vance of my group chats. Overly emotional, slightly unprofessional, confused by what everyone else is saying because I won't scroll up. Continually derails plans with late objections.

[James Stout]

So good. Oh, that's so good.

[Garrison Davis]

It is. That is.

[Robert Evans]

That is really funny.

[Garrison Davis]

That is brutal. Yeah. It is interesting to see their dynamics. It's interesting to see kind of Stephen Miller seemed to have the decisive word on like, let's go ahead with Miller.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

Speaking directly for the President.

[Robert Evans]

That's it. What's interesting is no one ever says the President has approved this. The President has said do this. Like Miller says something along the lines of like, we're going forward with this or I've been told we're going forward with this, which is again, not in terms of like, it's a very Hitler way of doing things.

[Garrison Davis]

Right. Yeah, right.

[Robert Evans]

Like there's this, I talk about this on the show. There's this decades long debate about like, did Hitler literally order the Holocaust or did he just kind of like keep making it clear to people that if they kept moving in a more Holocausty direction that would like endear them to him.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Intentionality aspects of both are true. But like, yeah, this is definitely kind of an example, that latter thing where Trump is probably like, yeah, somebody should probably fuck up those Houthis. And then Stephen Miller goes like, yeah, Trump said, you know, we're good, keep moving forward. But he's also, Miller's not dumb. He's not going to say Trump said to do this.

[James Stout]

He's going to say he's been delegating so much more than his first term to the point where his presidency is just projecting a certain vibe that then other people have to carry out all of the details for.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, this is very similar to the Hitler regime.

[James Stout]

Yeah, yeah.

[Robert Evans]

There is a term for this at the time in the Third Reich. It's called working towards the fury. Right. Where you're not going to get direct guidelines supposed to figure out what he wants and move closer to it.

[James Stout]

Yeah, no, exactly. Yeah, no, that, that's kind of been his, his new governing style.

[Robert Evans]

It's a lot smarter in terms of.

[James Stout]

Like just like you know, getting documents to sign and then projects certain, certain like slogans or vibes that then everyone who works under him, which is at this point maybe like roughly 200 people tops, have to all like figure out to like how to enact this thing that they think he wants.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah. Like even to the extent that he himself was, was saying he didn't sign the evocation of the Alien Enemies act that Rubio did and his signature's on it in the federal record. But clearly it's kind of a Rubio or it seems from that, that it's a Rubio concoction that he just greenlit. Just a quote from Miller in case anyone's wondering exactly what he said. As I heard it, the President was clear colon green light. But we soon make clear to Egypt and Europe what we expect in return. So yeah, it's, he never, he never specifically says the President has okayed this. But yeah, that's obviously people in Europe really pissed. I've seen some statements from government ministers in the United Kingdom like the, the, the sort of maligning of, of Europe and its military powers is obviously going to piss those people off. Talking of pissing people off, should we pivot to advertisements?

[James Stout]

We should, which does not piss me off. It makes me really happy to consume.

[Garrison Davis]

Garrison personally consumes all the products and services that support this show.

[James Stout]

Yeah, that's definitely not true.

[Robert Evans]

It's the only thing that Garrison consumes.

[James Stout]

That's also not true.

[Robert Evans]

Which is why they have pellagra.

[James Stout]

I don't know what that is, but sure, here's the ads.

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[James Stout]

All right. We are so bad.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. What's rending my dishes, James?

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah. Okay, I'll just start. So very amusingly, probably concerningly for him, Judge Boasberg, the same person who issued a tentative restraining order against the Trump administration for the rendition of people to Venezuela has also been assigned a signal lawsuit, American Oversight vs. Hegseth. So that guy, the one who Trump already called for his impeachment. Right. Has another crucial case in front of him. What the Trump administration has done in the court case pertaining to the rendition of people to El Salvador is invoke the state secrets privilege in court. Very ironic. Very ironic. They're talking about state secrets now, having just added Jeff Goldberg to the group chat, but that's what they have done. You can go back last week to understand sort of a bit more about where that's coming from. If you didn't listen to last week's.

[James Stout]

Yeah, we did a whole episode on it last week.

[Garrison Davis]

So it's also continuing to claim that it didn't, quote, unquote, remove migrants after the tentative restraining order was issued because they'd already been removed. The removal happened when they were loaded onto the plane, is its argument. Concurrently with this, there's a panel hearing. So that's a panel of three judges. Right. @ which the government is appealing the tentative restraining order. During this hearing, Circuit Court Judge Patricia Millett said, quote, the Nazis received better treatment under the Alien Enemies act than these Venezuelan migrants. Which is true. The Nazis had hearings in the 1930s. They didn't just get loaded onto a plane and sent to a work camp. Not. Not a great reflection on where we're at. The Trump administration is trying to challenge the jurisdiction of Boasberg, saying that he should have filed the same claim in Texas. Meanwhile, Venezuelan government attorneys are filing a legal claim in El Salvador to liberate their citizens from second. But it's worth noting, of course, that these people, some of them have been tortured by the Venezuelan government. Right. And chose to flee at no small risk to their lives. If people haven't listened to some of our older stuff, like I've been to the Darien Gap, which is the way that the vast majority of Venezuelan migrants come. You could listen to my episodes about that. If you want to know more about why people are leaving Venezuela, we have a little more information on some of the people detained. One of them is a makeup artist who's a gay man who was beaten by guards as a US Photojournalist, watch another one the Miami Herald is reporting had been granted legal refugee status. So it seems that they sort of randomly grabbed tattooed Venezuelans. Some of these people have been through background checks already. Right. At which they will have disclosed their tattoos. That's one of the things that they'll be asked about and they would have disclosed those. So whether they control effed it or how they came across these people is still a little bit unclear. A couple of other things regarding to immigration enforcement this week that have come across my radar, but probably don't merit a whole episode. It's been reported that the IRS is close to an agreement to hand over the tax records of undocumented people. It has claimed for decades that it won't do this. This is why most undocumented people pay taxes. Right?

[James Stout]

Yeah. Which is something that the conservatives just, like, don't believe.

[Garrison Davis]

Yes.

[James Stout]

They're like, all these undocumented immigrants aren't paying taxes like the rest of us. Like, no, actually they are.

[Garrison Davis]

What they're not doing is receiving benefits from those taxes.

[James Stout]

Yeah. And yes. And this is a great way to have people want to pay less taxes if they're going to get their information sent over to, like, the Gestapo.

[Garrison Davis]

Like, yeah, exactly. Yeah. The whole point was to not provide a disincent. This is similar to why California gives driver's licenses to undocumented people and allows them to insure vehicles. Right. Because you don't want to provide a disincentive to have a driver's license. You don't want to provide a disincentive to have insurance. We have now provided a disincentive to pay your taxes for undocumented people. So, yeah, that will have consequences. And it will have consequences, especially in industries. Right. Like agriculture and construction, where large numbers of people tend to be undocumented. Talking of undocumented migration, the Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick reports it. He said it's on the all in podcast. He has claimed to have already sold 1,000 gold cards. So. Gold cards. If you didn't listen to our previous recording on that.

[James Stout]

Oh, I feel like. I feel like I'm getting dizzy.

[Robert Evans]

I'm just like, yeah, I'm ill. Yeah, yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

There is no process for applying for or receiving a gold card yet. So it's extremely unclear what this means in immigration law terms.

[James Stout]

So he just got like a thousand texts from millionaires being like, yeah, I'll buy one maybe.

[Garrison Davis]

Like, well, multi millionaires, they're 5 million each. Right. So, yeah, apparently not quite clear. Like, and, like, he claims that he sold them. Like, is he going around shopping these around? Is this how we're going to replace the tax revenue from undocumented people? Like, oh, my God, no one knows. No one knows what this means. Who do you pay? Like, very unclear.

[Robert Evans]

So, yeah, that's great.

[Garrison Davis]

That is the current situation with immigration. I Also wanted to add that at least three people who are aware of died in San Diego county on 14 March in a storm while crossing the border. One young woman who survived was found next to the remains of her father who died of exposure in a winter storm out here. So, yeah, the border continues to be doing violence to some of the most marginalized people alive, which is great.

[Robert Evans]

We should pop in here. A story just dropped. Michael Waltz, the National Security Advisor who invited Jeffrey to that group chat journalists have found his public Venmo. No, every time with the Venmo always quote, unquote. It's full of journalists. I'm just going to read a quote from an article on prospect.org yeah, please. Unsurprisingly, Fox News holds the highest headcount for reporters in Mike Waltz's phone. Griff Jenkins, whose fox.com bio lists him as a Washington based national correspondent for Fox, is joined on the list by Brian Kilmeade, co host of Fox and Friends. Porter Berry, president and editor of Fox Digital, also made the gut. But right wing reporters are not the only ones represented in Waltz's Venmo list, which appears to be less than clean on opsec, as Secretary of Defense Hegseth wrote. Leland Vittert, a national correspondent for NewsNation, is also listed on the digital account, as is Brianna Keeler, an American journalist who currently serves as co anchor of the afternoon edition of CNN News Central. Lauren Pikoff, an executive producer at msnbc, is also in Walls's contacts. Earlier this year, Trump tweeted about the network, wow, Rachel Maddow has horrible ratings. She'll be off the air soon. But amidst the broadcasters, producers and talking heads, one name stands out from the crowd. Judith Miller, who was summarily fired from the New York Times after it was revealed that her reporting on the Iraq war was categorically false and obtained almost verbatim from Vice President Dick Cheney. Her dismissal was the price paid for cozying up too close to an administration set on war. It's just like, okay, we don't, we don't check any of this. We haven't locked anything down. Good.

[James Stout]

Having your public. Venmo itself is crazy. The fact that he's like, the fact that he's like getting like dinner with journalists to be like, I'll send you, I'll send you a Venmo request for this, for this sushi.

[Garrison Davis]

Oh, man, they've downloaded his entire friends list. And you can just scroll.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, I know. You can see everybody.

[James Stout]

Oh, my God. He said they get like a $15 Venmo requests from Brian Kilmeade for getting drinks at a bar. Like, what are we doing?

[Garrison Davis]

Oh, what are we doing?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

Also.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

How? Well, these people make hundreds of thousands, if not billions of dollars.

[James Stout]

They can make so much money.

[Garrison Davis]

15 bucks.

[Robert Evans]

Just get the ban.

[James Stout]

It's just one drink in D.C. so funny. Oh, my God.

[Robert Evans]

Now I think it's time, folks, that we take a little bit of a detour and talk about tariffs. Rocky Caspar.

[Garrison Davis]

Rocking Caspar.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, my God. I love playing that song. I love playing that song. We don't actually have anything to say about tariffs. Mia's not here. I will note there's a graph going around about the potential cost of Guinness under Trump's tax plan, which is usually around $7 per pint in the US and will now be $22 to $27 after Trump's, you know, new, new, new tariffs for imported alcohol.

[Garrison Davis]

That reflects its true value because it's also a meal.

[Robert Evans]

Yes, yes, absolutely. Anyway, we're done. That's all I have to say on tariffs.

[James Stout]

As long as the twisted tea pricing doesn't get affected, I'll be fine then. That's good.

[Robert Evans]

Good.

[James Stout]

Not going to comment now. In some more upsetting news, another student at Columbia has been forced into hiding as ICE targets her for deportation. Yoon Sao Chung is a 21 year old permanent resident who immigrated to the United States from Korea with her family when she was seven. On March 9, she received a text message from Homeland Security Investigations reading, hi, Yunsao, this is Audrey from the police. My job is to reach out to you and see if you have any questions about your recent arrest and the process going forward. When are you available for a phone call? So this, this message was allegedly in reference to being arrested, among others, at a recent sit in protest at Bernard College at Columbia. She was charged and then released with misdemeanor obstruction. So after receiving that, like, sketchy text. Right, Something that you should never, never respond to, you should immediately send to your lawyer.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[James Stout]

But after receiving this text, Chung got an email from Columbia Public Safety reading, quote, the U. S. Attorney's office for the Southern District of New York has asked us to inform you that Homeland Security investigation agents are seeking to make contact with you in connection with an administrative warrant for your arrest consistent with university's practice. We wanted to share this information and their request with you. If you are represented by counsel, it may make sense for your lawyer to speak directly with dhs. Now, that same day, ICE agents showed up at the home of Chung's parents. And Chung's lawyer called, quote unquote to Audrey from the police, who revealed she was actually an ICE agent and stated that there was an administrative warrant for her arrest and that the State Department can revoke Ms. Chung's residency status. We're gonna talk more about what's happened with Ms. Chung after this ad break.

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[James Stout]

All right, we're back. So when ICE failed to locate this Columbia University student, they started to enlist the help of federal prosecutors. I'm going to quote from the New York Times who broke this story, quote. On March 10th, Perry Carbone, a high ranking lawyer in the federal Prosecutor's office, told Ms. Ahmad, Ms. Chung's attorney, that the Secretary of State, Mark Rubio, had revoked Ms. Chung's visa. Ms. Ahmad responded that Ms. Chung was not in the country on a visa and was a permanent resident. According to the lawsuit, Ms. Carbone responded that Mr. Rubio had, quote, revoked that as well, unquote. So this similar to like Mahmoud Khalid, like, demonstrates that like they have no idea of the, of the actual like residency status of the people that they're going after. They are just going after noncitizens and may eventually start going after citizens too. Like they are just going after people that they assume have like the least amount of protections, whether that's a green card holder, whether that's someone on a student visa or a work visa. They don't really know going in. They're just, they're just going after people.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[James Stout]

Then on March 13th, ICE searched two residences on campus with warrants citing a statute for harboring non citizens. The Trump administration is arguing that Chung's presence in the United States hinders the administration's foreign policy agenda. One 21 year old student who was the valedictorian at her high school is, is hindering their foreign policy agenda for attending a sit in protest. Her lawyers note that Chung was not by any means like a movement leader. She was simply one of hundreds of students who joined in in nationwide protests against Israel's actions in Gaza. Her Lawyers write, quote, Ms. Chung has not made any public statements to the Press or otherwise, assumed a high profile role in these protests. She was rather one of a large group of college students raising, expressing, and discussing shared concerns, unquote. Chung herself had previously faced a university disciplinary process which found that Chung was not in violation of any university policy. So, in response to the actions of ICE and Homeland Security to try to locate and deport her, Chung went into hiding. Her whereabouts are still unknown as of time of recording, and her lawyers filed a lawsuit to prevent her deportation, claiming that ICE actions against Chung are illegal and unconstitutional. The lawsuit reads, quote, officials at the highest echelons of government are attempting to use immigration enforcement as a bludgeon to suppress speech that they dislike, including Ms. Chung's speech. ICE's shocking actions against Ms. Chung form part of a larger pattern of attempted US government repression of constitutionally protected protest activity and other forms of speech, unquote. Now, this past Tuesday, a federal judge granted a temporary restraining order halting efforts from ICE to detain or relocate Chung. The judge said that there is, quote, nothing in the record indicating that Chung is a danger to the community or a, quote, unquote, foreign policy risk or that she has communicated with terrorist organizations. The judge said that there would be, quote, no trips to Louisiana here, unquote. Referring to the movement of Khalil to ICE detention in Louisiana.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[James Stout]

A DHS statement said that ICE is going to, quote, investigate individuals engaged in activities in support of Hamas, a foreign terrorist organization, unquote. The statement also claimed that Chung would have an opportunity to present her case before an immigration judge, which is, like, contrary to incidents of ICE just deporting people before their legally required hearings, even, like, in defiance of, like, extra court orders mandating those hearings. Like, ICE is just lying here. And I think it's worth pointing out, like, what types of people they are going after right now. One type of person that ICE is going after is, like, non citizens who were arrested at protests regardless of what they actually did. Right. This can be anything from standing in the street to doing a sit in protest. Just like being arrested on campus and removed by campus police or nypd. Right. Just. Just any arrest, like, on record that shows you at one of these protests.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[James Stout]

The other, in the case of, like, Khalil, like, he was never arrested. He was the subject of a mass doxing campaign by other students at Columbia, professors and other, you know, quote, unquote, anti Semitism organizations which target high profile activists to create, like, public pressure against them. And those same lists are now being used by the Trump administration to target students.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah. Beta had One. Right. Or better the ultra Zionist people who are going around like attempting to fucking present people with pages. I think they were one of the groups that had created like a quote unquote deportation list. So we should just mention that a tough student, Ramesa Ozturk, was essentially abducted on her way to university. Right. There's video which we'll link in the show notes here.

[James Stout]

Very, very frightening video of her just standing on the sidewalk. As first one man approaches her in like a, in like a, like a.

[Garrison Davis]

Navy hoodie, hood up, mask on his.

[James Stout]

Face, approaches her, stops her. And then as soon as they start engaging in conversation, she gets surrounded by like five other people all wearing like what I would describe as like a gray man block, essentially.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[James Stout]

That they then like pull out badges and they like detain her. And it's interesting, like, as they approach, most of these people are unmasked. And then as soon as people realize what's happening, like people in the neighborhood realize what's happening, they all start pulling up like, like half face masks, like gators. Gators.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

They looked to me more than anything the way proud boys dressed a lot in like 20, 19, 2020. Yeah, it's.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, like, like it's extremely concerning, like when you start seeing these people, masked people snatching people off the street. Right. She asked if we can. She asked if she can call the cops and they say, we are the police. It looks like her phone falls out of her hand at some point. They take her bag. We know this because it seems like somebody was filming from a building just above. And you can hear that people say, like, why are you covering your. That person saying, why are you wearing masks? Why are you covering your faces?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah. The guy filming is like doing about what he. Given the fact that you have to assume he had no real idea what was happening initially other than like something visibly fucked up. Like, I'm glad he said the things that he said, but.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Stout]

She's a Turkish citizen who is in the States on a student visa in Boston, Massachusetts or outside Boston, Massachusetts.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, she's on an F1 visa. So just a couple of dates, a few days before she was seized, she. Look, her name was published by Canary Mission. Right. Canary Mission is a Zionist group that is. Has been doxing pro Palestine or anti genocide people for several years now. She had co edited an op ed in the Tufts Daily last year. That seems to be how they were able to identify her. But as Garrison said. Right. Like in terms of how they're picking their targets right now, it Seems to be heavily tied to these vigilante Zionist far right groups. I did see that a judge has already ruled that she shouldn't be left, she shouldn't be removed from Massachusetts without further consultation with that judge.

[Robert Evans]

We don't know if she has been or not already.

[James Stout]

But this is continuing to happen. Right? We talked about it this last week. I'm gonna do a whole episode next week about this, about this issue.

[Garrison Davis]

She is in Louisiana. Sorry, update.

[James Stout]

She has already been moved to Louisiana.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, so I'm just reading a Truth out piece here. Officials initially did not specify where else Turk had been taken. Kanabi, it's her lawyer, was unable to reach her. Later on Wednesday, Hanabi said in a motion that she was informed by a senator's office that the student was already.

[James Stout]

Transferred to Louisiana like in a matter of hours. They work to get her like outside of her like home state where she probably has more legal protections.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, it's not something that's super uncommon. I've seen them do this with what they called lateral transfers under title 42 where they would move people. Under title 42 they could immediately return people to Mexico. Right. And what they would do is laterally transfer them along the border and return them to another location in Mexico, which obviously led to them being completely dislocated when they were dropped in Mexico.

[James Stout]

Something else that I want to note is the use of this harboring non citizens warrant. Like one problem that ICE can run into often is that people can choose just to not answer the door. ICE usually likes to rely on people that have like already been arrested or already detained by like police. Right. That makes it much easier for, for immigration officials to find people. Without that, locating people can be a little bit harder with the use of this like harboring non citizens warrant that shows like they're trying to create this precedent for being able to actually break into more people's homes even though you know she had a permanent resident status. This is just like in terms of the tactics being used similar to like you know this all these like gray man block people approaching you on the street one by one. That's like a tactic to, to take note of. The use of this type of warrant is also something to take note of. We are already at that point where people have, are like, are like going into hiding. Right. This is like very, very like dystopian ya coded stuff where you're like, you are literally as like as a 21 year old like Junior being forced to, to go into hiding because federal agents are after you because you sat down.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[James Stout]

You. You sat down in front of a building in protest of a genocide. You're not a. You're not even a movement leader. And this, this type of thing shouldn't even happen to quote, unquote, movement leaders.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah. There's a. The very First Amendment protects your right to do that.

[James Stout]

Exactly.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[James Stout]

But like, regardless of whether or not you're involved in like the planning, the organization, whether or not you're making statements to press, whether or not you're, you're giving speeches, if you just attend these sorts of things, you are a target by what is very obviously a modern version of Gestapo like actions.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah. I think it's also quite revealing that she's somewhat successfully gone into hiding. Right. It suggests that their intelligence operation is not so violent. So they were able to immediately find her.

[Robert Evans]

Well, no, because again, the resources to do stuff like trace somebody down by their shoes from surveillance camera footage exists. We saw it used on those lawyers who lit police vehicle on fire back in 2020. But like, there's not really much in the way of crimes going on here and there. Also, there's so many of these people. Like the idea that you would, you would pull all of the footage that you would need to track every one of these. It's just, it's just not feasible.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah. And I think they'll just go after someone else. Right. To get the headline. But I'll be following this one with interest because it sort of, it's sort of an alternative outcome to the other ones that we've seen so far. So it's just be revelatory to see how it goes.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

So if you want to contact us about any of this, maybe if you're seeing things happening on your campus, if you have anything you'd like to share or things that you think we've missed, you can do so. The email address is coolzonetipson me. ProtonMail is an encrypted email service. It's only end to end encrypted, like signal. If you send it from a ProtonMail address, don't copy any Atlantic journalists on your email and you should be good to go.

[James Stout]

Thank you to everyone who's been sending those messages. It does take time for us to go through all of them. Not all of them will have a response, but we are, we are reading them. Thank you. I am still working on a piece on the lavender scare. There's a lot of stuff happening regarding, you know, suppressing and going after trans people in the military. This takes time. But we are working on that slowly but surely, as well as stuff regarding ICE targeting students and what's going on in Colombia. So we appreciate that. The last thing I want to talk about is this past Monday the IDF killed two Palestinian journalists in Gaza in separate airstrikes. Mohammed Mansour, who works for Palestine Today, was killed, quote, in his house in southern Gaza alongside his wife and his son without any prior warning, according to Al Jazeera. Later that day The IDF killed 23 year old Palestinian journalist Hassan Shabbat in a targeted airstrike while he was driving his car in northern Gaza. I want to read the statement from Hassam. Quote if you're reading this, it means I have been killed, most likely targeted by the Israeli occupation forces. When all this began, I was only 21 years old, a college student with dreams like anyone else. For the past 18 months, I've dedicated every moment of my life to my people. I documented the horrors in northern Gaza minute by minute, determined to show the world the truth they tried to bury. I slept on pavements, in schools, in tents, anywhere I could. Each day was a battle for survival. I endured hunger for months, yet I never left my people's side. By God, I fulfilled my duty as a journalist. I risked everything to report the truth and now I am finally at rest, something I haven't known in the past 18 months. I did all this because I believe in the Palestinian cause. I believe this land is ours and it has been the highest honor of my life to die defending it and serving its people. I ask you now, do not stop speaking about Gaza. Do not let the world look away. Keep fighting. Keep telling our stories until Palestine is free.

[Robert Evans]

It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts podcast from Cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzone media.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts you can now find sources for It Could Happen here, listed directly in Episode Descriptions. Thanks for listening.

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This is an I Heart podcast.