Grenada with Andrew, Pt. 1

Summary

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Episode Overview

Podcast: It Could Happen Here
Episode: Grenada with Andrew, Pt. 1
Hosts: Andrew Sage & James Stout
Release Date: December 17, 2025

This episode launches a two-part historical deep dive into the Grenada Revolution—a pivotal but often overlooked moment in Caribbean and Cold War history. Trinidadian host Andrew Sage guides listeners through Grenada’s colonial background, the rise of radical movements in the Caribbean, and how the New Jewel Movement, led by Maurice Bishop, came to power through a bloodless coup. The conversation explores the complexities of post-colonial politics, people's movements, and the role of the US in suppressing progressive change in the region.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Grenada Matters (02:20–03:49)

• Andrew sets the stage by noting that Grenada, "tucked in a corner of the Caribbean," played a central role in a revolutionary period that has been largely forgotten outside the region.
• He connects the topic to present-day U.S. military interest, mentioning a 2025 request by the U.S. to build a temporary military radar base at Grenada’s airport.
• Quote:
  "Grenada is small... and yet it has sat at the centre of one of the most critical events in Caribbean history. And it might be one of the sites of yet another such incident." — Andrew Sage (03:31)

2. Grenada’s Colonial Background (03:51–12:34)

• Andrew details Grenada’s indigenous history, European conquest (French then British), the importation of slaves, and eventual independence in 1974.
• He deconstructs the myth of simple European conquest, noting the fierce resistance by indigenous populations and the tragic "Great Dying" caused by European diseases—sometimes intentionally spread.
• Quote:
  "There’s this narrative that the Europeans came and they just easily conquered the entirety of the Americas, and it’s important to lay that myth to rest." — Andrew Sage (04:31)

3. Waves of Caribbean Radicalism (12:34–14:26)

• Andrew places Grenada within a broader tradition of Caribbean uprisings from the 1960s to 1970s: Dominican Republic, Curacao, Jamaica, Trinidad, and others.
• He highlights the Black Power Revolution in Trinidad, the radical labor movements, and the influence of US and European neo-colonialism.

4. The Rise and Rule of Eric Gairy (14:26–19:42)

• Gairy, originally a labor organizer, rose to power in Grenada before and after independence but became corrupt and autocratic, using secret police ("the Mongoose Gang") to suppress dissent.
• Younger generations and labor activists opposed his rule, leading to repeated strikes and political tension.

5. Foundations of the New Jewel Movement (NJM) (19:42–24:00)

• The NJM emerged from a fusion of two groups: Maurice Bishop's Movement for Assemblies of the People and Unison Whiteman’s JEWEL organization.
• Andrew highlights the ideological evolution of Caribbean leftism—from earlier Stalinist orthodoxy to Trotskyist, Maoist and democratic socialist influences, particularly via West Indian intellectuals like C.L.R. James.
• Quote:
  "In the 1960s and 70s, radical thought across the Caribbean was shaped by these more democratic socialist ideals...inspired by grassroots Workers Councils rather than the typical Soviet orthodoxy." — Andrew Sage (19:27)

6. The 1979 Bloodless Coup (24:00–26:45)

• On March 13, 1979, while Gairy was abroad, NJM staged a bloodless coup, seizing control of radio stations and the military. They instructed citizens to demand the police surrender—and incredibly, it worked.
• Memorable moment:
  "They told people to go to police stations and demand that they put up white flags of surrender. And the population was so anti-Gairy that they did it...the police said, yeah sure, that was that." — Andrew Sage (24:37)

7. A Window into Revolutionary Optimism (26:45–29:43)

• Andrew and James reflect on the period's unique hopefulness, comparing it to today’s cynicism about change. They muse over how, despite risk and no certainty of success, past activists took bold opportunities.
• James draws cultural links to Britain’s Windrush generation, ska music, and the role of pirate radio in cultural cross-pollination.
• Quote:
  "I think we have this sort of 21st century malaise of cynicism. It’s like that was tried before, you know...the people who try those things, they didn’t know if it was going to work out or not. They just tried it." — Andrew Sage (26:54)

8. Power—and Its Pitfalls (29:43–30:53)

• After seizing power, the NJM formed the People’s Revolutionary Government (PRG) under Maurice Bishop. Despite widespread support, they declined to hold elections and banned opposition parties.
• Andrew foreshadows coming episodes that will dig into the successes, internal splits, US invasion, and the revolution’s tragic end.

9. The US, Imperial Memory, and Historical Amnesia (30:53–34:25)

• James laments that Grenada’s story is rarely taught in US schools, while Andrew explains this erasure is itself an act of empire.
• Quote:
  "The axe forgets what the tree remembers, as the famous say it. So something like the US’s operations in Grenada...may not even muster a passing mention...and yet it is pivotal to the histories and self identities up to the present day of entire regions and peoples." — Andrew Sage (31:52)
• Discussion broadens to US interventionism in Panama, deportations, and the externalization of US borders—framing Grenada as part of a wider pattern of US action in the hemisphere.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On revolutionary hope:
  "At some point you have to like roll the dice, right, and see how it goes." — James (27:26)
• On resistance and history:
  "You know, progress is not inevitable or irreversible." — Andrew Sage (28:37)
• On education and memory:
  "As we return to, like, Monroe Doctrine 2.0...it’s vital to understand the role [the US] has played in suppressing progressive political movements in the last century." — James (30:53)
• On the erasure of empire:
  "The axe forgets what the tree remembers." — Andrew Sage (31:52, quoting a proverb)

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Important Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic / Segment | |----------------|-----------------------------------------------------| | 02:20–03:49 | Introduction to Grenada and its strategic importance| | 03:51–12:34 | Colonial history and context for revolution | | 12:34–14:26 | Waves of Caribbean radicalism | | 14:26–19:42 | Eric Gairy’s regime and political climate | | 19:42–24:00 | Emergence and ideology of the New Jewel Movement | | 24:00–26:45 | The bloodless coup of 1979 | | 26:45–29:43 | Optimism, action, and cultural memory | | 29:43–30:53 | The People's Revolutionary Government forms | | 30:53–34:25 | US imperialism, memory, and contemporary connections|

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Closing and Teaser for Part 2

Andrew previews the next episode, promising a full exploration of the PRG era, the internal split, the U.S. invasion, and the current legacy of the revolution in Grenada. The conversation ends on a somber note about the ongoing relevance of the revolution’s lessons, the persistence of US neo-colonial influence, and the importance of recognizing overlooked histories.

Closing Line:
"All power to all the people. Peace." — Andrew Sage (34:45)

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Transcript

[Andrew Sage]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[James]

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[Andrew Sage]

So there's a revolution, long forgotten, that was tucked in a corner of the Caribbean. For those outside of the region, it's probably quite far from mind. You know, when most people think of Caribbean revolutionaries, they think of Cuba. But at the time, the rise and fall of the Grenada revolution was everything. Hello and welcome to It Could Happen Here. I'm Andrew Sage, your Trinidadian host of It Could Happen Here.

[James]

And I'm joined by James, your American British co host.

[Andrew Sage]

American British.

[James]

Yeah, I don't really know how to say that.

[Andrew Sage]

Like, which order should that hyphen be in?

[James]

Yeah, yeah. I don't know which way, which way I'm supposed to hyphenate because we don't hyphenate white people, which is a very American thing. But yeah. Glad to be here. I always enjoy learning more about this part of the world from you.

[Andrew Sage]

I'm glad, I'm glad. And you know, as we speak, I'm hearing helicopters overhead and. No, it's really a reminder of the times that we are living in. Last night there were quite a few stealth helicopters flying overhead, quite close to the ground, about three of them.

[James]

Wow.

[Andrew Sage]

All the lights were off. So it seems to be a ramping up, an escalation in some ways, or just a continuation of the existing military presence.

[James]

Yeah, geez.

[Andrew Sage]

And as we're talking about military presence in the us, which is something that I spoke about on this podcast before you go and check it out. We're here to discuss the very recent history, positive and negative, of my northern neighbor, Grenada. So I don't want to bog anyone down with too many facts, but it's important to get an idea of the context. So Grenada is the southernmost in the grouping of Caribbean islands known as the Windward Islands. It's a country composed of Grenada, the island and a few smaller islands, including Carriacou and Petit Martinique. It's long been considered the spice isle, as the hilly mainland was and still is home to a lot of nutmeg plantations. They currently have a predominantly African population Of just over 117,000, sharing a country merely 344 kilometers squared, or 133 square miles for reference, the five boroughs of New York City collectively make up 778.18 kilometers squared, or 300.46 square miles. So Grenada is small. You know, New York is big, but Grenada is also quite small. You know, for reference, it's slightly larger than Queens, but far less populated and far less dense. So we're talking small island state par excellence. And yet it has sat at the centre of one of the most critical events in Caribbean history. And it might be one of the sites of yet another such incident, in light of the United States request to Grenada on October 9 to establish a temporary military radar base at the infamous Maurice Bishop International Airport, a request which has not yet received a conclusive response more than a month later, at the time of me recording this. So I thought it apt to finally talk about this moment in history, I went to my library and got a copy of Revolution and Invasion, a compendium of essays from various perspectives on the topic arranged by Patsy Lewis et al. That provided the basis of my research, particularly the essay by Moo Collins, a Canadian poet and novelist. I also drew some of the radical background lore from Fundy, AKA Joseph Edwards, an underappreciated autonomous radical healing from Jamaica, who spoke about the situation in None Shall Escape all linked in the show notes. So I don't want to get too deep into the history prior to what's immediately relevant to today's topic. I'll keep things brief. A couple hundred Amerindians lived in Grenada prior to the European invasion. Human settlement may have been as early as 3500 BCE, but most definitely by the 2nd century CE. Spain, upon stumbling upon it, claimed it but never settled it. England attempted to settle it but was driven out by the indigenous inhabitants and eventually the island was settled and subjugated by the French, who engaged in a protracted war against the indigenous between today's grenada Dominica and St. Vincent of the Grandines throughout the 17th century. You know, there's this narrative that the Europeans came and they just easily conquered the entirety of the Americas, and it's important to lay that myth to rest. There was, of course, the very tragic great dying that was responsible for a vast majority of the indigenous population losing their lives to disease, in some cases intentionally weaponized by the Europeans. But despite differences in their weaponry, the Europeans did not have an easy time conquering the islands or conquering the Americas at all. In many cases they did not succeed in conquering islands for many decades or centuries of struggle. But eventually Grenada was established as a colony of over 15,000 enslaved Africans by 1763. A year prior in 1762, Britain took over the island from the French as part of the Seven Years War and the island was formally ceded to Britain in 1763. By 1807 Britain had brought 114,000 slaves to Grenada. By 1838, slavery was abolished. In 1877, Grenada became a Crown Colony. And fast forward a little further. Under modified Crown Colony status, the wealthiest 4% of Canadians were allowed to vote. Eric Gary founded the Grenada United Labour Party, or Gulp, in 1950, initially as a trade union, which led to the 1951 general strike for better working conditions. Buildings were set on fire in this time, and this is in a broader regional context of radicalism and agitation for independence in the post World War II reality, which would intensify after Many of the islands had already gained their independence. Eventually Grenada got elections based on universal adult suffrage in 1951 and Eric Gehry's party Gulp won. This is before they got independence though. In a time when the English speaking Caribbean was trying to establish a West indies federation between 1958 and 1962, it didn't succeed. Jamaica seceded and then Trinidad. So it fell apart. And after the fall of the federation, Grenada became an associated state in 1967, then finally gained full independence from Britain in 1974, again under the leadership of Eric Gary, who became the first Prime Minister of Grenada. The late 60s and early 70s were a radical time in general. So that's setting the stage for what comes next in Grenada. The rise of the new dual movement led by Maurice Bishop. You see, as Fundy found in this time, we also had quite a few other confrontations going on across hispanophone, Francophone, Dutch and anglophone Caribbeans. In 1965 you had the popular revolt in the Dominican Republic against a military coup that was drowned in blood by the US invasion. In 1967 you had a spontaneous rebellion of agricultural workers in Guadeloupe. 1968, black folks in Bermuda rioted against the racist and colonialist control that dominated the island. In 1969 there was a violent confrontation against US soldiers by students and workers protesting the US occupation of the Panama Canal Zone. Curacao was shaken by wildcat strikes of workers. Riots were employed and unemployed as well. Labour unrest was breaking out in Suriname leading to a general strike. Antigua had riots, strikes and demonstrations over several years. Jamaica had workers at the Western meatpackers established democratic control of their trade union local, taking full control over their union dues and negotiating with their employer. Without official mediators to manage the sugar workers in the local community directly and of course, infamously in 1970, Trinidad was shaken up as workers, academics and small farmers linked up against the system. Led by the government of Prime Minister Eric Williams and after years of his rule under the Sloker and Masade Dun, the people erupted against the neo colonial system. Despite being ruled by this black leader, the hundreds of people in the streets championed black power. Understanding what was needed was a people's politics in which new institutions could emerge. This black power revolution in Trinidad was inspired in part by the black civil rights struggle in the United States, while also seeking to unite the African and Indian populations in Trinidad. After an attempted mutiny by the army and Venezuelan and American gunboats standing by ready to intervene, the military surrendered. The revolutionary initiative shifted away from the masses and Dr. Eric Williams was saved. By 1973 a few armed guerrillas remained in the hills of Trinidad, but eventually their struggle was snuffed out. By 1975 in Guadeloupe you had wildcat strikes taking place. Guyana had wildcat strikes against the American and Canadian owned bauxite companies. Suriname had another general strike. St. Lucia experienced wildcat strike. Dominica attempted to seize the British owned Castle Bruce Estates in Jamaica. There was a wave of appropriations from banks, warehouses, stores, betting shops and more crossed Kingston and demonstrations initiated by students and workers against police brutality and for the release of prisoners. And in 1979 Nicaragua had their revolution against the US allied government.

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[James]

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[Andrew Sage]

While all of this is going on, Grenada had a population of less than 100,000 people. It had just become independent under Eric Gary. And Eric Gary is an interesting fella because you'll see some aspects of him mirrored later on. He came to power in 1951, with the wave of universal suffrage. He was 29 years old at the time. He had previously been a worker organizer in Aruba and was expelled from the island for that very reason. He spent decades in politics as a champion of agricultural workers. But younger generations were not as excited about him. They recognized his financial corruption, his penchant for rigged elections, and, of course, his use of secret police that were repressive to the people. So as Grenada is making steps towards becoming independent, the people did not want him to be the leader of independence. There were strikes against him even before the revolution. But see, Gary was carrying on this tradition that was set up by the British, whether he knew it or not. He may have had this radical start as a worker organiser, but he came to carry on colonial interests. You know, he started off as a union man, but he turned against the workers. And even the British at one point had been scared of him as an organiser and had trepidations about him as an independent leader, but they still chose him and preferred him, at the risk of maybe a more radical version of him leading an independent Grenada. And then came the New Jewel movement. Now, the New Jewel Movement is actually a combination of two groups. You had the Movement for Assemblies of the People, which was founded by Maurice Bishop, a lawyer who had studied in Britain. And you had the Joint Endeavour for Welfare, Education and Liberation, or jewel, which was founded by Howard University economic student Unison Weidman. They were also joined by Bernard Cord, an economics lecturer at UB St. Augustine in Trinidad and Tobago. So at first, in terms of their politics, they really wanted popular assemblies and that sort of thing. Well, actually, let me get into the background of the Caribbean left. You see, in the 1950s, there was an upheaval. You know, radicals had been shifting from the sort of Stalinism that had become popular in the post World War II era towards a more critical sort of Trotskyism or Maoism. Clara James and George Patmore, both based in London, were already advocating independence for Africa and the Caribbean, rejecting the Stalinist idea that liberation should wait until after World War II. CLR James is an interesting figure politically to me, because while he was ostensibly a Trotskyist, he was in many ways unorthodox in his approach to those politics.

[James]

Yeah, CLR James book, trying to remember if it's called Beyond A Boundary or.

[Andrew Sage]

Beyond D Boundary beyond the Boundary.

[James]

Yeah, it's a great book. It's the only book about cricket that I've ever read and thus the only one that I've ever enjoyed. Not a Big Cricket. Appreciate it. But as a sports historian, that book was foundational to how I approached my dissertation. And as such, I've always had a really soft spot for him. As someone who did sports for a living and academia for a living, I saw a really positive example of the role that both of those can play in liberation struggles in his writing. Yeah, it's one I'd encourage everyone to read. If you're looking for a book, his writing is very readable. His historical writing, which I, at the time of my life, when I was in grad school, I very much appreciated someone who wrote something that wasn't self consciously trying to be dense and impenetrable to make them seem intelligent. His intelligence comes through just fine.

[Andrew Sage]

Indeed. Indeed. I've had a soft spot for him as well for some time, particularly after reading the Black Jacobins.

[James]

Yeah. Used to assign that one a lot.

[Andrew Sage]

And I would say that the Caribbean left at the time also had a bit of a soft spot for him because they were heavily influenced by his writings. In his 1956 pamphlet, Facing Reality, which was about the Hungarian revolution, ended up becoming a profound influence on West Indian radicals as it had revealed the potential of Workers Councils and done a lot to expose the authoritarianism of the Soviet model. This is something that Fundy wrote about and highlighted as he's given his sort of discussion of the origins and trajectory of the Caribbean left. So in the 1960s and 70s, radical thought across the Caribbean was shaped by these more democratic socialist ideals. You had movements like Jamaica's Young Socialist League, Trinidad's New Beginning Movement and Grenada's New Dual Movement. They were all inspired by James and by grassroots Workers Councils rather than the typical Soviet orthodoxy.

[James]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

Of course, the Caribbean left was not immune to conflict or to division. There were conflicts between those who were more loyal to Stalinist or pro Soviet positions, and that led to some splits within unions and political movements. Now, initially, the New Jewel movement was leaning in that participatory democratic direction, but eventually they ended up going into studying Marxism Leninism more now, really. At first they mainly wanted Gehry out, but later they went into Marxism Leninism and transformed the movement into a proper political party of the vanguard variety. In an effort to unseat Gary, they started building some momentum and immediately faced consequences. In 1973, Bishop Whiteman and others got beaten up and arrested by Gary's secret police multiple times. Bishop's own father was shot and killed by Gary's forces and the high schoolers who were also taking a stand against Gary at the time were facing repression and violence. Now with 1974, independence was won, but sadly under Gary and his notorious secret police, which were, by the way called the Mongoose Gang. Now there was already suspicions of potential election fraud and it wasn't helped by the fact that his Mongoose Gang was known to intimidate people. But in 1976, despite this fraught political landscape, Bishop won a leadership role as opposition and became known across the country in a country as small as Grenada, as someone charismatic, personable, relatable. The New Jewel movement started to build a reputation for being connected to the people, engaged with students, engaged with pro bono work in some cases. As I mentioned, some of them were lawyers and they were youthful. They were bringing a youthful energy to the sort of old guard colonial era politics of Eric Gary and his ilk.

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[James]

This is where mindset comes in.

[Trainer Games Announcer]

Someone will be eliminated.

[Unrivaled Basketball Announcer]

Pressure is coming down.

[James]

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[Andrew Sage]

So the story of how the New Jewel movement came into power is actually a bit humorous to me. On 13 March 1979, Gary went to the UN meeting in New York. That was happening at the time. And as the saying goes, when the cats are away, the mice will play. In this case, while the cat was away, the neutral movement pulled off a coup, a completely bloodless coup. They took control of the army barracks and the radio. When they went on the radio, and this is the funny part, to me, they told people to go to police stations and demand that they put up white flags of surrender. And the population was so anti Gary that they did it. They just walked up into the police station, so they're like, yeah, put up these white flags. And the police said, yeah, sure, that was that. That's how the New Jewel movement came into power.

[James]

Yeah. A. This is such a fascinating time in history. Right. Like, I used to teach a class about culture and colonialism back in the day and we would talk a lot about like this time period, like the post Windrush period, where, like Caribbean political culture was very influential even in the Metropole.

[Andrew Sage]

Right.

[James]

In Britain specifically. This is when we have scar music and then punk music arriving from that which is a serious political force in the 20th century. It's easy for people to sniff at that or whatever. And that's the reason I am the way I am. So I guess I have a fondness for it. But also, like, the state's capacity for violence and surveillance hasn't caught up to the capacity for mass communication yet. And so you have these movements which can mobilize a ton of people and the state isn't like all up in them with informers and like it can either respond as the Soviet Union did in Hungary, right, with tanks. That's where we get the word tanky from. Or it can crumble by people turning up and turning the cops to surrender. It's just a fascinating little two, three decade period in history before the state, I guess, recovers its advantage in terms of violence and surveillance.

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah, I marvel at this time because they didn't have the social media and stuff to connect people and, you know, advertise, hey, we're having this, this protest or this action or this whatever. Yeah, but the networks were still there, you know, they were organic and they were motivated by a genuine sense that an alternative was actionable.

[James]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

And I think we have this sort of 21st century malaise of cynicism. It's like that was tried before, you know.

[James]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

Every time we look at something, we could just say, oh, that was tried before and they failed. When we look back at history, the people who try those things, they didn't know if it was going to work out or not. They just tried it. I wouldn't be surprised if I was a fly on the wall on the day of this coup if the New Jewel movement guys were just like, wait, what? That actually works?

[James]

Yeah, exactly.

[Andrew Sage]

Like not, not to take away from their planning and organization and you know, the genuine grassroots support that they had is still a swing.

[James]

Yeah, totally. At some point you have to like roll the dice, right. And see how it goes.

[Andrew Sage]

Like in this case, they roll the critical success.

[James]

I'd say, yeah, yeah, It's a natural 20. The Dungeons and Dragons turn. So I'd really like to nerd out in this period. This is like the heyday of pirate radio, right. Where you have people broadcasting but like outside of state control. And it's a really interesting time for culture and music. Like ska music explicitly, explicitly begins in an anti racist way. Right. Like it calls itself two tone music because bands were often look multiracial. And it's really interesting that we have this whole cultural movement which owes a lot to the Windrush generation. But like you said, it's questioning the both capitalist and, and also Marxist orthodoxies in a way that I really wish. I mean, a lot of people do today, don't get me wrong. But I wonder if we could tell those people now that you'd have people who were like dedicated vanguard Marxists again. Like, you know, it just seems sad in a way.

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah, I mean, I think we could say the same thing about a lot of people's current politics. I'm sure a few went back in the past and were like, you know, people are actually trying to be trad wives right now. In 2025, you go and talk to the women who had like no ability to open a bank account and were trying to escape financial abuse, domestic abuse, all these different things. And they're like, oh, you know, there's actually a whole Internet trend of like, yeah, your husband should control all your finances actually. Yeah, I mean, of course that kind of sentiment never went away. But it's popularization, definite bunks. I think this sort of notion that progress, quote unquote, is something that is inevitable or Irreversible.

[James]

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. That's very. I mean, you can even travel across the world and share that. I can only imagine how that would be received in Roshava. Right. To tell the friends in the women's movement that there are Western women who aspire to be trad wives. I mean, I'm sure they're aware they have the Internet, but. Yeah, it's certainly. Yeah. This idea that we can only progress and move in one direction.

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah. That's how the New Jew movement came into power. And upon getting to that position, they established the People's Revolutionary Government, or prg, which is led now by the Prime Minister of Grenada, Maurice Bishop. They were considered legitimate, of course, because they did have the People's mandate, but they opted not to solidify that legitimacy with an election, and they also went on to ban other parties. So in the next episode, I want to get into what exactly they did when they were in power in broad strokes, all their hits and misses with the economy and politics over the course of their four years, and how it culminated in an internal split, multiple killings, and a US invasion. But if you want the details on how all that played out, you'll have to tune in. Next time. We'll get into the outcome of the prg, the flaws, the revolution, its downfall, and where Grenada stands today. But before we wrap up, any final thoughts? James?

[James]

I feel like. Okay, yeah, I just had lots of them. I don't know. Yeah. This is a fascinating period. And like now, as much as there ever has been, it's a vital time for us to study this. Right. As a person who's taught in American schools and universities, this one doesn't come up very much. It's certainly not like in the required teaching syllabi in anywhere that I've taught. And I think as we return to, like, Monroe Doctrine 2.0 or whatever we're doing the United States is doing in the Western Hemisphere right now, it's vital to understand the role it has played in suppressing progressive political movements in the last century.

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah, I think, you know, as you mentioned, it's not really in the typical history and historical accounts that it's taught to students. I just. I think. I marvel sometimes at, you know, that's exactly how empire functions.

[James]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

You know, the axe forgets what the tree remembers, as the famous. Say it. So something like the US's operations in Grenada or anywhere else in the world, in all the many places they have intervened, that may not even muster a passing mention, a sentence, even in a historical class. In a history class in the United States. And yet it is pivotal to the histories and self identities up to the present day of entire regions and peoples. You know, it may be a footnote, if so much in the standard curriculums in the United States, but it's one of the most recent and raw incidents of violence and trauma to take place in the Caribbean.

[James]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Andrew Sage]

And in our independent history.

[James]

Yeah. When Trump was first assuming office this time, there was a brief moment when they were talking about returning to colonizing Panama. If you can cast your mind that.

[Andrew Sage]

Far back, he has flooded his own quite successfully.

[James]

But I do recall that, yeah, I had been in Panama two months before that. And I think the United States, a large portion of the population, either doesn't know or has forgotten that independence from American sort of neo colonialism is integral to Panamanian identity. I don't think they'd realized quite how unwilling to accept going back to that Panamanian people were.

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah, it was a long struggle to, you know, eke out independence. I mean, even now there's, you know, US Neocolonialism is alive and well in Panama in many ways. Yeah, but what gains they have gained is, you know, something they're not willing to lose.

[James]

Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, I mean, the United States deports people through Panama. The Biden administration sent its Secretary of Homeland Security to the inauguration of the Panamanian president. The US Funds Panamanian deportations did under the Biden administration, including of people who have no criminal record. Like, we have effectively externalized our border regime to Panama in the way that we've also done to the Dominican Republic and Haiti. Right. Like, I guess what I'm saying is I don't want people to think that this is a one off, that like either the Trump stuff is a massive leap from previous policy, it's a change in scale, not in kind, or that the United States hasn't done this before and has some history of doing this in the Western hemisphere.

[Andrew Sage]

Indeed. So on that rather depressing note, we'll leave it here for It Could Happen Here. But you can join us for the next episode when we will get into exactly what took place in Grenada and where Grenada stands today. Till then, all power to all the people. Peace.

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