It Could Happen Here Weekly 204

Summary

It Could Happen Here Weekly 204 – Detailed Summary

Podcast: It Could Happen Here
Date: October 18, 2025
Host(s): Robert Evans, Garrison Davis, Mia Wong, James Stout
Network: Cool Zone Media / iHeartPodcasts
Episode Focus: A deep, on-the-ground examination of the end of Title 42 and its repercussions at the US–Mexico border, highlighting grassroots responses, the lived experiences of migrants, practical mutual aid, the history of settler colonialism and border enforcement, and ongoing structural violence.

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Overview of Main Theme

This episode stitches together multiple on-the-ground dispatches and interviews, offering a detailed, harrowing, and empathetic account of how migrants have been treated at the US southern border as Title 42, a pandemic-era immigration policy, expired. The episode is at once reportage, oral history, and a call to mutual aid. It cross-cuts:

1. Community response to humanitarian crisis at the border (especially in Jacumba, CA and San Ysidro).
2. Firsthand stories from migrants, mutual aid volunteers, and border residents.
3. Structural history of settler colonialism, border enforcement, US immigration law, and the normalization of state and vigilante brutality.
4. Wider context: How policies and media demonization combine to fuel suffering, and how little political accountability exists.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Indigenous Peoples Day Segment ([03:09–52:14])

• Guest: Dalia Kilsback (Northern Cheyenne)
• Core Themes:
  • History and meaning of Indigenous Peoples Day: It is a corrective to Columbus Day, centering Indigenous survival and resistance, and the realities of colonial genocide.
  • The evolution of federal “Indian policy”: From doctrine of discovery and settler colonial conquest, to treaties, forced removals (e.g. Trail of Tears), reservation and assimilation, to self-determination movements.
  • Doctrine of Discovery ([10:16]): How legal language justified land seizure—Indigenous people were considered “incompetent” to manage land, necessitating colonial ‘guardianship’.
  • “The law…just becomes a sort of retroactive excuse” ([19:54]): Laws were crafted to rationalize theft and violence, not protect rights.
  • Periods of policy—Allotment, Indian Reorganization, Termination, and the pendulum to “Self-Determination.”
  • Land Back movement ([40:39–47:23]): A complex, multi-faceted demand: Not simply returning land, but recognition of sovereignty, reparations, and reevaluating property concepts.

Memorable Quote:
— Dalia Kilsback [06:29]

“What I mean about the United States being a settler colonial state—I mean that this is current and ongoing... federal Indian policy is always in conversation with what started with Christopher Columbus as the doctrine of discovery.”

2. Title 42: What It Is and Why It Matters ([57:57–110:27 et seq.])

• Explainer: Title 42, originally a little-used legal provision, was used from March 2020 onward (by Trump, continued by Biden) to summarily expel asylum seekers under the pretext of public health.
• The episode documents its human cost: increased deaths (from 247 in 2020 to 857 in 2022), family separations, dangers for expelled migrants, and the use of dangerous, dehumanizing border infrastructure.
• The policy’s end was characterized by confusion, lack of preparation, and a perpetuation of cruelty via other legal means (Title 8 expedited removal, use of CBP1 app, further “bottlenecking”).

Memorable Quote:
— Gustavo Solis, KPBS [76:01]:

“On paper, the rationale is, there’s a pandemic… But that was bullshit. We know that from as early as 2018, Stephen Miller…wanted to use Title 42 to stop this type of migration...There was no real public health rationale for this.”

3. Migrant Experiences: Voices from the Line ([107:17–117:56])

• Interviews with migrants stuck between border fences or out in the desert.
• Diana Rodriguez (Colombia):
  • Describes the journey walking from Colombia to the border, making a shelter with a blue tarp, facing theft and extortion, hoping only to present her case.
  • On the flowers in her hair:
    — “We call these the little yellow flowers of hope, and they match the color of our bracelet.” ([107:37])
  • On xenophobia:
    — “We would like you to change your way of seeing things and your way of thinking so that you don’t look at us with contempt...Being an immigrant is not easy.” ([112:34–114:09])
• Joseph (Jamaica):
  • Shares a song and notes how he wants a better life for his son, but isn’t “giving away” his home ([117:29])

4. Mutual Aid and Community Response ([124:57–176:42])

• The complete non-response of major NGOs and official agencies; local residents, business owners, and mutual aid networks provided nearly all food, water, medicine, and sanitation.
• Volunteers gave selflessly, from organizing massive water drops to charging cell phones and tending to medical crises.
• Emotional aspects: Many volunteers impacted deeply, proud to have made any difference, questioning systemic failures.
• Marissa:
  — “What hit me deeper…what if that was me and my child?” ([127:39])
• Katie:
  — “If that community didn’t activate, there would have been a lot of dead people in the desert.” ([195:51])

5. Border History, Racism, State Violence ([204:47–254:21])

• The militarized border’s origins in colonial conquest, the Mexican-American War, Gadsden Purchase, and 20th–21st-century border policy.
• The transplantation of the Israeli surveillance playbook to tribal land.
• Documentation of KKK, paramilitary, and exploratory programs fuelling white nationalist violence and ideology, normalization of death as policy deterrence.
• Interview with Jen Budd (ex–Border Patrol):
  — Describes direct, intentional policies to push migrants into dangerous areas, knowing some will die, and “critical incident teams” (SIT) that cover up violence by the agency. — “It’s like a cult. They always say you bleed green…” ([224:19])
• Pressure and surveillance:
  — Journalists, mutual aid providers, and lawyers targeted as “instigators,” flagged for extra scrutiny ([244:09–247:02]).
• Cases of Border Patrol and militia violence, the spread of dehumanizing language and culture within and beyond the agency.

6. Call to Action and Community Resilience ([197:05–156:42, End])

• Message: Mutual aid, no matter how small, matters.
• Katie: ([197:05])
  — “[...] literally a smile makes a difference. A feeling of like, I see you and you belong on this planet makes a difference.”
• List of border support orgs is provided (Asian Solidarity Collective, American Friends Service Committee, Border Kindness, Borderlands Relief Collective, Haitian Bridge Alliance, PANA, Prevencasa).
• Closing reflection:
• The episode’s final message draws the direct line from settler colonialism, through the targeting of Indigenous children and assimilation/family separation, to the present-day bipartisan consensus enabling state cruelty against migrants.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “[Laws] just become a sort of retroactive excuse to do whatever needs to be done from the perspective of the settler state to just take all of this land.” — Interviewer ([19:54])
• “We bring it back to these themes of, like, settler colonialism in order to kind of gain more of this land.” — Dalia Kilsback ([20:47])
• “No one leaves our country because they want to. They leave because they have to.” — Natalie, mutual aid volunteer ([194:42])
• “These people were radically unprepared for what they were going to go through… they were sold a bill of goods by coyotes on the other side." — Sam Schultz, volunteer ([161:16])
• “If that community didn’t activate, there would have been a lot of dead people in the desert.” — Katie ([195:51])
• “Little things can make a difference. And if you listen this far, I hope you’ll take the time to try and do those little things.” — Host ([197:05])

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Indigenous Peoples Day, Federal Indian Policy: [03:09–52:14]
• Title 42 History, Application, and End: [57:57–110:27]
• Migrant Testimonies (Diana Rodriguez, Joseph): [107:17–117:56]
• Grassroots/Migrant Aid (Jacumba, San Ysidro): [124:57–176:42]
• Border Patrol & State/Societal Violence History: [204:47–254:21]
• Actions & Reflections, Call to Aid: [197:05–197:40], [254:21–End]

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Resources, Reading, & Organizations Suggested

• Books:
  • Settler Colonialism by Lorenzo Veracini
• Organizations:
  • National Congress of American Indians
  • IllumiNatives
  • National Boarding School Healing Coalition
  • American Friends Service Committee
  • Border Kindness
  • Borderlands Relief Collective
  • Haitian Bridge Alliance
  • Partnership for the Advancement of New Americans
  • Prevencasa
• Advice:
  • Learn about your local tribes, state-level policy affecting tribal sovereignty
  • Intervene where possible in support of treaty rights, environmental justice, missing and murdered Indigenous women
  • Support mutual aid, not only established charities—simple acts matter

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Tone & Language

• Honest and unsparing; grounded in lived experience
• Conversational, direct, and sometimes darkly humorous (“killing it here,” [53:05])
• Empathetic, blending reporting with advocacy
• Speakers use frank language about white supremacy, state violence, and injustices
• Mutual aid, empathy, and radical hope are woven through the conversation

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Conclusion

This episode is an unflinching, deeply grounded look at the state of the U.S. border at a moment of crisis and its roots in centuries of settler colonial violence and policy. Rather than offering abstract analysis, it centers the stories of those affected—migrants, mutual aid workers, Indigenous leaders—and draws a clear-through line from history to present. It’s both a chronicle of collapse and a manual of hope and resistance, showing how ordinary people step up where the state and major institutions fail. The call to all listeners is clear: “Little things can make a difference… if we all just do a little bit or what you can, then I think we would see a very large impact.” ([197:05])

Transcript

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[Interviewer / Reporter]

Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the week that just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going to.

[Narrator / Host]

Be nothing new here for you, but.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

You can make your own decisions.

[Narrator / Host]

Hello, this is Mia from the future.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

The whole crew is off this week, so you'll be getting a series of.

[Narrator / Host]

Episodes from our past. And this episode in particular, I wanted to rerun for Indigenous Peoples Day, but.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

It is also from before I came out.

[Narrator / Host]

So hope you all enjoy and we will be back next week.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Welcome to It Could Happen Here, a podcast that is on the cycle of being sort of okayly introduced. When this episode goes out, it will be Indigenous Peoples Day. And so to talk about that more, we're going to talk to Dalia Kilsbach, who is a member of the Northern Cheyenne or has Northern Cheyenne tribal citizenship and has studied and worked in federal Indian tribal Policy. Dalia, hello. How are you doing?

[Narrator / Host]

Hi. I'm doing well. Thank you for inviting me here today. Of course.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Garrison is also here. Garrison, hello. Hello. I'm currently also doing writing about Indigenous stuff, but within the context of Canada, which people should. We'll probably hear later this week. So, yeah, I guess first thing I wanted to talk about is a little bit is about what Indigenous Peoples Day is and why it is that and not the other thing.

[Narrator / Host]

Yeah. So Indigenous Peoples Day, as many people know, is replacing, I'm gonna say it. Christopher Columbus Day. That is still like a federal holiday, but multiple cities and states have opted to use Indigenous Peoples Day instead. And the reasoning for that is acknowledging the atrocities that were committed by Christopher Columbus, who first of all did not discover America, but continued to not only use slavery, but commit different forms of genocide, rape, et cetera, all of these terrible atrocities. And so rather than celebrating somebody like that, Indigenous Peoples Day has been implemented in order to recognize the people who are actually here first and Indigenous peoples across the Americas, their histories, cultures, and contributions.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Yeah, Columbus, real piece of shit. Worst Christopher, like, yeah, it really cannot be overstated how bad that guy was.

[Narrator / Host]

Even, you know, even people in that.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Era who had committed their own genocides, like Isabella and Ferdinand, who, you know, expelled the Jews from Spain, where it's like, you know, once you've reached the sentence expelled the Jews from X, you're already in the shit list of the worst people in human history. And even they. What Columbus was doing, it was like, what on earth? Bad, bad guy, bad name. Things are going to continue to go badly. And yeah, that was another thing that I wanted to talk about, which is federal Indian policy. And this is an incredibly broad. This is an incredibly broad area spanning like 300 years. So we're not going to be able to go into an enormous amount of depth in it. But I think it's important that people have an understanding of, I mean, a Just what the US did and how everyone else has had to sort of deal with it. And then also the fact that this is something that changes over time and has looked different, it's been bad in different ways.

[Narrator / Host]

Yeah. And so when talking about federal Indian policy, I always like to contextualize it within a larger sort of like Euro American, like teleology of colonial conquests and then moving on to settler colonialism and where we are with federal, federal Indian policy currently. So how do we connect Christopher Columbus to where we are currently? And this is the history of federal Indian policy and Western legal discourse and how European powers throughout history have defined what it means to be an Indian person in relation ship to Indigenous peoples rights to their own land and to self governance. So when we're looking at the different periods of federal Indian policy prior to there being the United States government, we have the colonial period, which is 1492-1776. This is how federal Indian policy, legal scholars divide that. And it's really important to kind of give the difference between what is a colonial state versus a settler colonial state when you're talking about not just the United States government, but also the Canadian government and different governments globally. But I want to talk just a little bit about what I mean by the difference between a colonial government and a settler colonial government, because they're tied together. So by a settler colonial government, what I mean is that it is defined by the deterritorialization of indigenous population populations. And so rather than in a colonial government, as you had with Christopher Columbus and the Spanish and with the English, etc. Is rather than a state and sovereignty being conceived as all these resources are going back to the Metropole, all these resources are going back to England or to Spain, et cetera. And colonial occupation is in, is conceptualized within this way in settler colonial governments, the colonists come to these lands and stay. And what they define as sovereignty is within this land that they define now as their own. So and in order for that process to happen, there needs to be different forms of genocide of the indigenous populations. And so that's what we saw with Christopher Columbus and, and throughout history was just the depletion of a lot of our Indigenous populace. And so when, I mean about the United States being a settler colonial state, I mean that this is current and ongoing. And so when we talk about federal Indian policy, federal Indian policy is always in this conversation with what started with Christopher Columbus as the doctrine of discovery. And so that's how we define the colonial period. And feel free to stop me and ask Me questions or else I'm just going to try to move quickly because there's a lot.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Yeah, I think we probably should briefly talk about what the doctrine of discovery is, at least before we get to the Marshall trilogy and stuff for sure. So what does that actually mean legally?

[Narrator / Host]

So legally, it's the discovery of a quote unquote Newfoundland by European colonial forces. And the reason why it's called the doctrine of discovery was that indigenous peoples on these lands were deemed unable to govern themselves and they did not know how to utilize their land. Up to the definition of what the European powers thought land use was that indigenous peoples didn't have the same concept of property and same with their relationship with resources and resource extraction. So when Christopher Columbus and all of these other colonizers, Conquistador Doris, came to the quote, unquote new land, they saw all of this rich, plentiful resource and thought to themselves, well, obviously these people don't know what they're doing because there's just so much they have not done anything with it. And we're going to take this back to ours because obviously they're inferior beings and don't know what property is. So legally, the doctrine of discovery conveyed legal title to and ownership of American soil to European nations, a title that devolved to the United States. And so this definition is expansive. And expansive discovery implies that native nations have a right to land as occupants or possessors, but they are incompetent to manage those lands and need a quote unquote benevolent guardian, such as a federal government who holds legal title. When we're talking about this legal title, it devolves to the United States later on in history, after the American Revolution, rather than being colonial states as the United States, like 13 original colonies, given the American Revolution and its own Constitution and its creation of itself as a nation state, then that turns into a settler colonial government.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Yeah, and I think we can. Yeah, we can get to what happens next then, because, yeah, you have this elaborate liberal framework that lets you steal people's land and murder them and then control it. And then the outgrowth of that is this sort of weird event where the colonies go into rebellion and suddenly, yeah, there's not a colony. They're not colonies anymore. They just are the state. And so, yeah, talk about what happens next after the sort of formation of the United States.

[Narrator / Host]

So after the formation of the United States. So we have this period, the American Revolution, that's all. Not really dive that into is 1776 to 1789, and it's called the Confederation period. But next we have the Trade and Intercourse act era, which is from 1789 to 1835. And so this is defined with the United States Constitution and Congress's exclusive right to regulate trade relations and make land secessions and enter into treaties with tribes. So this is a treaty making era with the tribes that only the United States federal government is able to. And there's a distinction there because there had been a lot of contestation between states and the federal government as to who is going to now deal with these nations that are within our own settler colonial borders. So whose job is, is that to solve this issue? So within the United States Constitution, there are three clauses that define the United States legal relationship to American Indians. And so these are the Treaty making Clause, the Commerce clause and the Property clause. And so this, this movement from just relying on the doctrine of discovery and treaty making processes between different European powers now is between the United States federal government and tribes. What this does is now tribes are located within the United States territory and this places Indians within the boundaries and jurisdiction of the United States. And now they're a matter of domestic interest.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Something that leads it to one of the sort of complicated questions that changes through this whole era, which is about what does sovereignty mean for these tribes and to what extent do they even continue to possess it? And how does that even sort of, how does that work when you have this new state that sort of just has claim control here.

[Narrator / Host]

Right. And also during this period, well, later on when we have, sorry, jumping ahead of myself, when we have the extermination of the treaty making process and this completely removes seeing tribes as independent sovereign nations. So I think that will kind of get more into that later. But the thing with federal Indian policy is that it's sort of self prophesizing. So as settlers are moving across America, the United States government also has to create these policies in order to legalize these land cessations and movements. And a pattern that we do see here throughout history and throughout time is that the United States federal government as a settler state is over the rights of, over the rights to land and rights of indigenous peoples themselves. You have a priority of the settler state in order to acquire land. So a lot of the reason why later these treaties will be broken, etc. Is because settlers are moving into these lands and the United States is then breaking these treaties in order to have more land, more land secessions.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Yeah, yeah. So the law is sort of just following the violence and it just becomes a sort of retroactive justification for just taking Everything.

[Narrator / Host]

It's a self justifying sort of sovereignty.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Yeah.

[Narrator / Host]

So this is the removal period and what a lot of people may have heard of. So it's from 1835 to 1861. And what we have is the extinguishment of Indian title to eastern lands and the removal of Indian tribes westward. So one of the most notable acts is the Removal act, which was authorized by President Andrew Jackson, which moved Indians from the east to the west of the Mississippi river into what is was called Indian Territory. And what brought about this federal act was a series of three foundational statutes within federal Indian policy dictated by Chief Justice John Marshall. So first we have Johnson B. McIntosh, Cherokee Nation v. Georgia and Worcester v. Georgia. And I won't go into too much detail, but what these essentially did and legally defined tribes as being domestic dependent nations. And so it clarified more that again, tribal nations are underneath the federal government's overview, not the states. So yeah, it placed tribes above state jurisdiction. And what this was trying to do was solve some issues that tribes such as the Cherokee Nation had with different states when it came to land and jurisdiction over said land. But that is kind of the basis of a lot of federal Indian policy and still remains troop day. And what is notable in each one of these statutes, I believe particularly in Worcester voice, Georgia, although it seems that it was supporting tribal sovereignty in that they were above state jurisdiction. A lot of these statutes cited racist president and the doctrine of discovery. What you see for federal Indian policy is that a lot of the foundation for federal Indian policy based on precedent is the doctrine of discovery, which is reliant on the idea that American Indians were savages and needed federal benevolence and paternalism in order to regulate their own affairs.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Yeah. And I think that's. Well, okay, we should probably not just immediately get to allotment. But yeah, because there's also. Yeah, this is also the period we used. Yeah. The thing you were talking about earlier, the thing you probably know about, which is, okay, it's not true to say this is when this starts, but this is Indian Removal Act, Trail of Tears territory. And one thing, I think one of the sort of running themes of this is that the law in this context is just sort of. It becomes a sort of retroactive excuse to do whatever needs to be done from the perspective of the settler state to just take all of this land. Yeah. And I think maybe one of the keystones of this is Andrew Jackson just straight up telling the Supreme Court to fuck off so that he can do. So he can do A Trail of Tears.

[Narrator / Host]

Yeah. So the Removal act happened after all of these statutes that you already had that supported federal Indian sovereignty. And so the Cherokees in Georgia were one of the tribes that were removed. And so you kind of see what you talked about, the retrograde kind of justifications for said removal despite the statutes that are there. So although that Marshall in Worcester Beach, Georgia, determined that the state of Georgia did not have jurisdiction over Cherokee territory. Territory, although this territory was in the state's borders, later on, you see with the Removal act that although these statutes are still precedent in federal Indian policy, those were null in order for there to be more expansion of settlers within these areas. So when it was decided that, oh, wait, we do need this land and we don't actually want these Indians here, let's put. Put them to the side over past the Mississippi so that they're out of sight, out of mind. Right. So we see more of this justification for settler expansion. And so again, we bring it back to these themes of, like, settler colonialism in order to kind of gain more of this land. And a lot of these statutes are still cited, the doctrine of discovery in them. And rather than supporting tribal policy, the relationship between the United States federal government and American Indians was not based on the rights of Indians, but more that they can't. They can't govern themselves. Right. And so. So, and that's the whole issue is like, people are like, they don't know what they're doing, so we're going to push them and, like, take their land again. So I. I don't know if you want me to go too much into the Trail of Tears, but you're seeing a lot of patterns here, I think, different forms of genocide, different forms of taking land. And this was.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

This is all around the same time as the Indian act in Canada as well, which was. Did a very similar thing, especially starting in the 1900s. It's starting in the 20th century as well, with the, like, expansion of the, like, assimilation programs. Yeah. And I think, I guess one other thing I want to point out about this is that. So one of the things that happens with Trailist here is that the Supreme Court tells Jackson that he can't do this, and Jackson just does it anyways. And I think that's a very interesting, important moment because this is this thing, right, where the federal government can tell the Supreme Court to fuck off.

[Narrator / Host]

Right.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

And there's nothing the Supreme Court could do about it. And if you look at what they did it to do, the thing they did it to do was Genocide. And it's, I think it's, it's just. I think it's a very sort of, I don't know, this incredibly grim like, you know, encapsulation of like what this state actually is, which is this sort of genocide machine and whatever sort of, you know, this is what sovereignty is, right? It's the ability to break your own rules in order to sort of maintain order to maintain the system. So you, you know, you break your own laws and you know, as we're going to get to in a second, like you break your own treaties continuously. And you do this because the genocide machine has to keep moving, right?

[Narrator / Host]

And there's a couple federal Indian policy theorists. Vine Deloria Jr. Who's one of the most famous ones, and David E. Wilkins, who talks about how there is no need for checks and balances within the federal Indian policy system. So you have Congress that is able to pass whatever act they want, and, and then you also have the Supreme Court and then you also have executive action. But it wasn't really delineated that well within, especially when it comes to this period as to who is going to be dealing with the Indians kind of thing. And so this kind of confusion and not really completely defining what it means to be a domestic dependent nation, I think really just goes to show how much of a fragile edifice like settler colonial policy is for. It is within the system. But again, moving on, it comes back again to land. So the reservation area era in 1861-1887, you have a lot of westward expansion of non Indians settlers, specifically to California. You also have the creation of Indian reservations and resulting Indian wars. So during this era, what you see a lot of are different types of attempts at assimilation and a lot of warfare. So you have a lot of the Plains tribes, my tribe, for instance, that are going through all of these battles, fighting, forced removal onto reservations. One of the most famous ones was the Battle of Greasy Grass or the Little Bighorn where General Custer was killed by Sioux, Cheyennes and Arapahoes and different instances of battles such as those. And also where a lot of tribes were forcibly removed to areas that they were weren't originally from. So, like how the Cherokees were moved to Oklahoma. There's attempts of my tribe, for instance, Northern Cheyenne to be moved down to Oklahoma as well. And that's why there's some Southern Cheyennes in Oklahoma and then my tribe, the Northern Cheyennes in Montana. Another thing that is happening during this period are boarding schools, the boarding school era. So this attempts at assimilation through education and assimilation is also within, within the settler colonial kind of structure. It's, it's defined as a process where indigenous people end up conforming to different constructed notions of settler norms. So if they're not absorbed within the state completely, then their attempted attempt to be assimilated culturally through education, through languages, in terms of economics. So now you have a bunch of different sort of bureaucratic structures on these reservations trying to make tribal governments appear to be, or constructed as settler colonial governments are. So maybe it's the three branches in ways that aren't just compatible with different tribes culturally. And you also have attempted eradication of different kind of spiritual and cultural practices and a lot of Christianity being forced onto different people and just kind of terrible things that I think more and more people are becoming aware of due to, due to current movements. But we'll, we'll get into that later.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Do we want to talk about allotment? Because if I remember correctly, this is in the same period.

[Narrator / Host]

Yes, allotment period and forced assimilation. So this is like 1871 to 1934. And so this is the end of the treaty making process. So the whole idea of trying to force tribes onto reservations and sign these treaties were to again, take land and make sure that the United States has more land and all the land, et cetera, that they could possibly have. So at this end of treaty making, federal allotment of Indian lands also happened in the, the Dawes Act. And so what this was was an attempt to further shrink the reservation lands that tribes are already guaranteed within treaties. So during this period, I think somewhere like 9 million acres were taken from tribal reservations during the allotment process. So what the allotment process did was it counted each and every individual Indian that was eligible. I think there were adults, yeah, adults that were eligible. And each one of them were given a certain parcel of land, a certain number of acreage. And once all of this land was calculated, what you had was an excess of land, quote, unquote, excess of land that the tribes obviously didn't need because they had still too, too many people. And so what the excess of land was utilized for is for pioneers and for settlers. If it didn't go to the federal government, it was to incentivize settlers to colonize, essentially settle on Indian lands, so trying its hardest to not stay true to its treaty making practices.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

I think the other thing that was interesting to me about this is that, like, because one of the other goals of this is to sort of like, ooh, it's the civilizing mission. It's like, yeah, we're going to turn them into, we're going to turn all these people into like, like human farmers, like true American frontiersmen or whatever. And it's just like, it just doesn't work because economically that doesn't make any sense. Like, you breaking up all these like, lands is like.

[Narrator / Host]

It doesn't.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

You can't just give someone like a small patch of like, shitty land and have them farm. Like this doesn't. Like this. It doesn't. It doesn't. They certainly tried.

[Narrator / Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Like, that was one of the main thing. One of the main things in Canada was about getting them to adopt like, like European farming practices. Yeah. Which, which they, they already knew how to like, get their own food. Right. They were trying to change this whole system of, of, of like, of food growth to, to this, like, to this European way of farming. And it just, and they were just forcing them to. And there's.

[Narrator / Host]

Yeah, it's, it's.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Yes, it gets, it gets, it gets super. Gets super like dark and horrible once you, like, look at like, the letters that were being written by like, the heads of these programs, like, you know, instructing like, these agents who are stationed at these, like, reservations to like, force people to be doing, doing this horrible farming for like, all day, every day. And I think, you know, the sign that this was like, like, this is, this is so bad that even the US Government eventually is like, wait, this, this, like, this is fucked up and doesn't work. So I think that's. Yeah, you transition to sort of like the next phase, I guess.

[Narrator / Host]

Yeah, very short phase. Yeah. So the next phase is the Indian Reorganization Act. And so this only lasted six years from 1934 to 1940. So this is when allotment ended, as you said, the United States government was like, wait, this isn't working. What else can we do?

[Interviewer / Reporter]

We do.

[Narrator / Host]

The Indians aren't dying off. They're not assimilating, they're not acculturating. We don't know what to do with them. So maybe we'll, we'll have them adopt these constitutions. And a lot of them were just templates. So regardless of whether or not they were, I think, compatible with tribal, different tribes way of life, they were like, you have these constitutions now. Now you're, you're a tribe, and this is what each tribe has to look like in order for us, the federal government, to recognize you as a legitimate entity. And, and then so you have the establishment of these tribal governments that consist of tribal councils. And business committees, et cetera. However, this period is fleeting, very fleeting. And next you have the Termination era. So this is the period of time where the federal government, essentially even more so, wants to just get rid of the quote, unquote, Indian problem, which is existence of indigenous peoples that are reminders to the government essentially that they are a settler colonial force and they don't know what to do with us because they tried to commit genocide, they tried to remove us, et cetera, et cetera. It's still not working. They decided that our tribal governments aren't legitimate. And they just decide, well, it's too much to try to keep up with our treaties and what we promised them when it comes to health care, education, housing, et cetera, et cetera. How about we terminate our federal responsibility, our trust responsibility, that are delineated in federal Indian policy and in our treaties, and give them off to this, to the states to decide what to do with. And says during this period, you see sort of the federal dissolution of some tribes, such as the Menomi, and other ones as well. So this is another dark time. The dark times just keep on coming. And what federal Indian policy scholars have characterized federal policy as a pendulum. So swing, swinging from side to side between this termination of tribes. So the federal Indian government as trying to get rid of tribes switch, especially as you can see in this era. And then the pendulum of the other side is self determination. But both of these are held within the context of goals of assimilation. So this is just another phase of terribleness. Yep.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Well, I think this. This phase also, like, one thing I think that also like is important people understand is that like, like, it's not like people aren't fighting this, like the whole time. I mean, even going back to the stuff of the 7th Cavalry, the 7th Cavalry lose boars, they lose bells all the time. People are fighting constantly. And this period, the termination period, is also where you see the rise of the American Indian movements.

[Narrator / Host]

Yeah, a lot of these periods can be dove into more and all of these different things. In every instance, in every instance of federal Indian policy, you have resistance, which we're not covering here right now, but you have instances throughout history where indigenous peoples have fought for their rights to land, to. For their community, to being sovereign nations, et cetera. And that's why the federal Indian, the federal government, not federal Indian government, the federal government has not been able to eradicate us, much to their dismay. And so now I'm going to switch into the era that we are considered to be in, which I had mentioned when I talked about the pendulum of federal Indian policy. So now we are in the self determination era, which began in 1962. And we have the right, it's characterized with the revitalization of tribal entities. So going kind of back to when there was the Indian Reorganization Act. So we have our tribal councils, there's restoration of some tribes under federal recognition who were terminated. Again, not all of them. We also have the Indian Civil Rights Act. So this kind of guaranteed individual Indians some rights, not just characterized by their tribes. Also the self determination policy. So this is when Nixon condemns the termination policy and gave more control to Indians rather than the Bureau of Indian affairs, which is the federal bureau, and just kind of like other policies that have given the tribes more rights to determine for themselves and their own people to a certain degree underneath the federal government as domestic dependent nations. And again, I, I think that we have seen a lot more movement, but within the context of being within a settler colonial state, it's always, I think, a possibility that the, the federal Indian government or the federal government, I keep saying Indian. The federal government will try to take more and more and I think, for instance, when it comes to issues of fishing rights, issues of hunting rights, with states, not even just with the federal government. So you have a lot of states throughout history, but still ongoing, that attempt to encroach on tribal treaties. And again, treaties are the basis of federal Indian policy. Without these treaties, the lands would have never been seceded to the United States. And so there's this sort of like legal, legal conundrum, I would say, of where all these, all treaties in the history of the United States with Indian tribes have been broken in some way, shape or form, but still American Indians have to live on their reservations instead of having their, their land back. And so nowadays a lot of movement has been towards land back. What this means, what is this process? And I think it means a lot of different things for different people, indigenous people, because Again, there's, there's 574 federally recognized tribes. And so it's not one monolith of ideas, monolith of beliefs, but by just by saying land back, that's like recognition that this is our, this was our land first. And you're not keeping your side of the deal and never have been.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Could you maybe go a bit more.

[Narrator / Host]

Into land back as a topic? Because, like, specifically like the past five.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Years, it has really gain a lot more like popularity as like a slogan. Yeah, but I think for a lot of, a lot of people who like, chanted and Hear it don't always really know exactly what it means.

[Narrator / Host]

There's a lot of, like, mixed opinions.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

On what it means. Of course, on, like, the more, like.

[Narrator / Host]

Reactionary side, it's like, people be like.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

What you're gonna, like, kick white people out of these areas?

[Narrator / Host]

Like, that's kind of. That's what a lot of, like, the.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Reactionary takes on Land Back is. And I'm sure most people who are listening to this podcast, that's not what they think, but they may not really.

[Narrator / Host]

Know exactly what it means either. They may think it sounds like a good idea, but they're not quite sure what it is.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Do you mind kind of talking about.

[Narrator / Host]

How Landback has, like, developed as.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

As an idea and what, like, what, like, you mean by it personally, at least?

[Narrator / Host]

Yeah, I think I could talk about more about, like, what I mean by it personally and what I've understood it to mean to other people, because I think Land Back itself, it means, like, a lot of different things. And I don't think that there has been a concrete kind of idea of what it means, but I think a lot of the movement, I want to contextualize it within a lot of the sort of activism that we've seen in the recent years. So, for instance, no dappled the Dakota Access pipeline in 2016 and kind of. I think that's one of the more recent events that have really illustrated on a wide scale, like, globally, about indigenous movements, sovereign movements, and especially when it comes to environmental justice. But what you saw there was encroachment on tribal treaty land within. When it had to do with the Dakota Access Pipeline. So although it didn't cross some of the current reservation borders, it was in treaty land, you know. Yeah, that kind of thing. Yeah. Same.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Same thing with stop line 3. How it encroached on, like, the hunting land and the farmland that was not technically in the, like, residential, Like. Like. Like. Like, not in, like, the reservation area where people live, but. But it's in the surrounding area that is for hunting that is specified in the treaty. People are trying to use these, like, loopholes to get the pipelines through.

[Narrator / Host]

Right, right. And so I think what you see is a lot of solidarity across tribes, because this is not new. This has never been new, and a lot of tribes can relate to that. And what you've seen, and what I hope that I've highlighted throughout this kind of very brief overview of federal Indian policy is the different ways that indigenous rights to land and sovereignty has been attacked in different forms by settler and colonial governments. I think that the day and age that we live in now has allowed for more widespread solidarity, especially over social media. And so when we say land back, for me, how I interpret it as what people mean when they're saying it is recognition of our tribal sovereignty, of our right to this land that has not been respected. And then I also think that it means, well, if these treaties aren't being respected, then how is this treaty still valid? Right. How come we aren't getting our land back? Because you're not upholding your end of the deal. While some people also might mean and recognize that this whole United States government is a settler state. Right. Based on the doctrine of discovery, which is based on denying tribes and American Indians of their rights to this land. So some people might take it to this whole other context of, yeah, well, maybe this is. This is all of our land, etc. Etc. But in practice, what does this look like? And I think in practice, a lot of people are seeing it with reparations or people buying land back for tribes and giving it back to tribes. And we have seen some of that, or also just people interrupting the narrative in their own mind of their Euro American identity. So not non American Indians and primarily European settlers and their history of their own families taking part of the settler colonial process. And how has that. What about their lands? There's everyone who descends, I guess, from these settlers. And I want to be specific when I'm talking about Euro American settlers.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

And.

[Narrator / Host]

How they currently benefit from these systems. And I think by saying land back, we're able to highlight this movement for tribal sovereignty and recognition on a global scale. Instead of searching for justice within the quote, unquote, like searching for justice within the courts of the conqueror, how do we expect for the conqueror to be held accountable for all of these atrocities, attempts at genocide, assimilation, et cetera? By taking it more towards a global scale, such as. No Dapple. Highlighting these to other people as these are injustices. This is ongoing genocide. I think that land back has many, like a plethora of meanings in that sense.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Yeah.

[Narrator / Host]

Yeah. I hope that answers your question. I myself might use it in some. Some different ways, because land as we conceive it to be property, that concept grew in conversation with Euro American.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

[Narrator / Host]

Conceptions of property. So I think that moving forward, when we talk about decolonization as a process and not like a metaphor, that thinking of land back, not within that whole idea of Euro American property as well, that's. That's kind of another thing to consider. Yeah, I think I think land back.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Will just be a whole other thing that will pay someone more qualified than our team to talk about on this show because, yeah, that's definitely, you know, like all of the things we've, we've discussed, they deserve their own deep dives by people that are not me, Robert and Chris. Let's see. Is, is there any kind of resources, either books or stuff online that you would recommend for people wanting to learn more about this history and then any kind of ways to, I don't know.

[Narrator / Host]

I guess show support in these and.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

These kind of like efforts that are going on?

[Narrator / Host]

Yeah, for sure. So in terms of resources and reading, I have read Lorenzo Veracini's book on settler colonialism. That's really helpful when you're trying to understand that framework in terms of getting to know kind of more of the basics of like, current issues impacting tribes. The National Congress of American Indians does a lot of work on the federal, federal level. If you want to talk more about kind of lived, current lived experiences of American Indians, there's illuminatives and getting more involved in those as well. I think that they have some tips. But I would recommend everyone getting more familiar with the land that they are on currently, the tribes within their state and what they can do, not just on the local level, but on the state level to support tribal sovereignty. Because a lot of issues, for instance, I worked on the state policy level in Washington and in Montana, and both of those have a significant amount of tribes. But you have a lot of legislation that's trying to happen that infringes on tribal treaty rights. And the thing is, as ugly as it may be to say, but sometimes voices of non indigenous peoples are listened to more within those contexts. So you need to get more involved on those levels. What sort of like nonprofit organizations work with your tribes and what sort of issues are impacting tribes? And again, these are all going to probably be surrounding tribal sovereignty. So maybe it's fishing access, hunting rights, et cetera. I think that's a really good way to make some more tangible change to feel like you're doing something to support tribal sovereignty while you're also educating yourself and making sure that their voices are at the forefront. And that's also applicable to the federal level, especially with, as you already said, like stop line three in Minnesota, contacting your legislators, et cetera, et cetera. And I think also when it comes to one of the larger issues besides environmental justice for Indigenous peoples, such as pipelines, you have right now missing and murdered Indigenous women. So looking into that a little bit more and who you can support. Who's addressing those issues. Along with. There is another movement with boarding schools right now because there's been a lot of bodies of young children that have been uncovered. And this is not an issue that happened a long, long time ago. Like for instance, my grandmother went to a boarding school. There's still schools that, although they're not called boarding schools right now, that were boarding schools but are still in operation under different names, etc. So kind of familiarizing yourself with those histories. And then also there's a national, I think it's called the National Boarding School Healing Coalition, based out of Minnesota. And looking into them and supporting their efforts with this issue is also a good place to start.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Is there anywhere that people can find you online?

[Narrator / Host]

Yes. I don't really use social media that much. Good for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I try not to. I don't know if I want people to find me. Do not.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Yeah, don't. Don't do it.

[Narrator / Host]

They probably can't find me.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Better not. It's better that people don't find anyone online. It's better. We're all just, just posting into the void. There's nothing just, just the void. Well, that, that is, I think, gonna wrap up what we have today. Chris, do you want to close us out with a funny bit? Light your local gas station on fire? Wow. Jesus Christ.

[Narrator / Host]

Killing it here.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Oh my God. Jeez. Wow. All right, goodbye everybody. Tired of spills and stains on your sofa?

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[Narrator / Host]

Subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. Hey, it's Ed Helms and welcome back.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

To snafu, my podcast about history's greatest screw ups. On our new season, we're bringing you.

[Narrator / Host]

A new Snafu Every single episode.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

32 lost nuclear weapons. You're like, wait, stop.

[Narrator / Host]

What?

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Ernie Shackleton sounds like a solid 70s basketball player who still wore knee pads. Yes. It's going to be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of guests. The great Paul Scheer made me feel good. I'm like, oh, wow, Angela.

[Narrator / Host]

And you, Jenna, I am so psyched you're here.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

What was that like for you to soft launch into the show?

[Narrator / Host]

Sorry, Jenna.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

I'll be asking the questions today.

[Narrator / Host]

I forgot whose podcast we were doing.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Nick Kroll.

[Narrator / Host]

I hope this story is good enough.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

To get you to toss that sandwich.

[Narrator / Host]

So let's, let's, let's see how it goes.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Listen to season four of SNAFU with Ed Helms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. All I know is what I've been.

[Narrator / Host]

Told, and that's a half truth is a whole lie.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went.

[Narrator / Host]

Unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of full of girls came forward with a story. I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv. Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

[Narrator / Host]

My name is Maggie Freeling.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be here if the.

[Narrator / Host]

Truth were that easy to find.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y' all said.

[Narrator / Host]

They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

From Lava for good. This is Graves County, a show about.

[Narrator / Host]

Just how far our legal system will.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Go in order to find someone to blame. America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns. Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple.

[Narrator / Host]

Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

And to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts. There's a vile sickness in Abbas town. You must excise it, dig into the deep earth and cut it out. The village is ravaged. Entire families have been consumed.

[Narrator / Host]

You know how waking up from a.

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Dream a familiar place can look completely alien. Get back everyone, and if you see.

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The devil walking around inside of another.

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Man, you must cut out the very heart of him, burn his body, and scatter the ashes in the furthest corner of this town.

[Narrator / Host]

As a warning from iHeart podcasts and.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Grim and mild from Aaron Manke, this.

[Narrator / Host]

Is Havoc Town, a new Fiction Population.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Podcast sets in the Bridgewater Audio universe.

[Narrator / Host]

Starring Jewel State and Ray Wise.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Listen to Havoc town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The devil walks in AB town. You probably don't remember the passage of Title 42, let alone that of Title 42, Chapter 6A, Subchapter 2, Part G, Section 264. But it's the part of US federal law that gives the government the authority to take emergency action to keep communicable diseases out of the country. The portion which allows a sweeping disregard for asylum law passed in 1944 reads in one giant run on paragraph sentence as Whenever the Surgeon General determines that by reason of the existence of any communicable disease in a foreign country, there is serious danger of the introduction of such disease into the United States, and that this danger is so increased by the introduction of persons or property from such country that a suspension of the right to introduce such persons and property is required in the interest of the public health. The Surgeon General, in accordance with regulations approved by the President, shall have the power to prohibit, in whole or in part, the introduction of persons and property from such countries or places as he shall designate in order to avert such danger and for such period of time as he may deem necessary for such purpose. Before President Donald Trump's administration used it on March 20, 2020, it had been used only in 1929 to keep ships from China and the Philippines from entering US ports during a meningitis outbreak. But in March of 2020, when you probably weren't paying much attention because the world was falling apart, or when I just returned from a work trip to Rwanda, where I was months before any precautions appeared in the usa, screened for a novel coronavirus. The Trump administration cited this public health law in instructions to the Department of Homeland Security on restrictions for migrants entering the United States. That very same day, the Centre for Disease Control Director, Robert R. Redfield, relied on this regulation to issue an order suspending the introduction into the United States of certain individuals who had been in quote, unquote, coronavirus impacted areas and quote, who would be introduced into a congregate setting at the port of entry or a border station. This includes individuals coming from Canada or Mexico who would normally be detained by CBP after arriving at the border, people including asylum seekers, unaccompanied children and people attempting to enter the United States between ports of entry. Citing the new CDC order, that same day, the Border Patrol began expelling individuals who arrive at the US Mexico border without giving them the opportunity to seek asylum. Reports indicate the CDC scientists expressed opposition to the invocation of Title 42, arguing that there was really no public health rationale to support it. Ever since then, public health experts outside the CDC have continued to agree, arguing that while international borders largely remain open to other travelers, there is no need to turn away refugees and expel them to their home countries or send them to Mexico. Despite this, DHS has been applying Title 42 to migrants for three years since then, and people have been turned away without getting a chance to plead their case for asylum 3 million times. Now. Trump is no longer president, but Title 42 has persisted. It's actually persisted for much longer under Biden's watch, two years and four months than it did under Trump. Ten months. But we'll get to that part later. First, let's look at what its bureaucratic wrinkle does when it's applied for three years across a land border spanning 3,145 kilometers. That's 1,954 miles for the Americans listening at a time when climate change, economic decline and state and non state violence are driving more and more people towards the USA's southern border in the hope of a better life. We're talking about Title 42 this week because it ended on May 11th. In a sense this marks an important change in immigration law, but in a sense it doesn't. Immigration was complicated and cruel for migrants and profitable for people on both sides of the border before March of 2020, and it's the same after Title 42 has gone. But nonetheless, Title 42 represented a distinct change in how asylum works in the US and especially when combined with other Trump policies that Biden has continued. A distinct change in how many people die when coming to this country to try and have a better chance at a safe future. By April of 2020, Title 42 expulsions at the border overtook the previous record for expulsions under the so called Migrant Protection Prot, which is better known as remain in Mexico that was set in August of 2019 under an agreement reached with the Mexican government. In late March of 2020, the Border Patrol began sending quote unquote back to Mexico. Most Mexican but also Guatemalan, Honduran and Salvadorian families and single adults encountered at the border. This group of nationalities remained unchanged until May of 2022, when the Biden administration came to an agreement with Mexico to accept, quote, unquote, thousands of Cubans and Nicaraguans sent from the United States to Mexico. But this doesn't really matter. You'll see that a lot in these episodes. Immigration law on the ground and immigration law in Washington D.C. are two very different things. There has been extensive documentation of individuals expelled to Mexico who do not fit within these nationalities, including Haitian asylum seekers, some of whom I've spoken to myself. People who are expelled are often driven by bus to the nearest port of entry, that's a land border crossing, and told to walk back to Mexico, often without their luggage and other belongings. I found that luggage and belongings, including ID cards, clothing and even little stuffed animals, all along the border. In the three years since Title 42 has been in place, I asked my friend Paul to describe what we found in Texas when we'd been for a walk along the border wall during our time reporting on the National Butterfly Center. There you'd find driver's licenses. I believe at one point we found like an almost an information packet for like it was for a teenager, a teenage girl. I remember that because we got pictures of it. And then when we took that long walk, remember we walked down the border wall. It was two, two and a half mile walk, something like that. When we got to the very end of the wall where the river was, there was just a giant pile of people's stuff and some of it was obviously trash. They were abandoning clothes after they changed from crossing and stuff like that. But a lot of it was full. Backpacks, a lot of ID documents just in piles. Just piles of them. Yeah, yeah, just big piles of documents that proved who you were. The other thing we found were ladders, tons of them. Apparently someone built a gazebo out of them. The wall varies in design a bit along the border depending on when and by whom it was built. But the Trump design has a flat anti climb plate at the top. I'll let Paul describe how that's going. It was literally like somebody went to the hardware store, bought two of the longest, or actually, sorry, three of the longest, two by fours. You could put two of them beside each other and then just nailed steps up them. So you know they were like 16, 20ft long and which was enough to just climb over the wall. Like there weren't, there weren't many places actually because most of the wall had that anti climb barrier at the top. Whereas when you didn't have the anti climb barrier you didn't actually have something to set it against. But once you put that on there, you could just lean the ladder up against it. It's like self defeating. Sometimes these expulsions are not as straightforward as a bus to nearest port of entry. CBP has carried out what are called lateral transfers by plane or bus, taking migrants to another location along the border to towns like San Diego or El Paso, even if they entered in Arizona or California. This leaves families stranded in a town where they have no connections, no resources and no community. Again, these are people I've met. It won't have escaped the listener's attention that those planes and buses and other means of detention and transport are indeed congregate settings. But that doesn't seem to matter here. Title 42 didn't stop people trying to come, but it made the journey more difficult. Instead of crossing and trying to turn themselves in for asylum or approaching a port of entry, people began crossing in more remote places, places without border walls or barriers and with less frequent border patrols. In 2020, the Border Patrol found 247 dead bodies along the border. This is unlikely to represent the full human toll of border enforcement. Many deaths in the desert go unreported and undiscovered. But it gives some kind of point of comparison for the 2021 number. After a year of Title 42, 546 people died that year. In 2022, third year of Title 42, 857 people died. None of those people were guilty of any crime other than wanting a better life. But under Title 42, they lost their lives because the US didn't give them a safe way to exercise their human right to claim asylum. One local advocate, Hermira Yousefi, from a group called pana, the Partnership for the Advancement of New Americans, explained what Title 42 had been like for her as an advocate for asylum seekers.

[Narrator / Host]

When the pandemic hit, we saw that Title 42 heavily restricted those who, who were able to seek asylum in this country. So while there was chaos happening and folks around the world who were trying to come to the United States for refuge, they were unable to do so. And what this resulted in is people taking an even more dangerous path, right than before and going between the ports of entries in order to try to seek refuge. And so we have had hundreds of cases of individual who have gotten themselves injured, who the hospitals are calling us because they tried to cross and got injured. And we're trying to help them with getting some basic legal services and immediate shelter and those types of things.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Since Biden took office, Human Rights first says it's identified more than 13,000 incidents of kidnapping, torture, rape, or other violent attacks on people blocked or expelled to Mexico under Title 42. That's because it's easy for violence to follow people who have no resources and no community to protect them. It's for that reason that you won't always see faces in my photographs at the border and that some of the names in this series have changed, or perhaps we're just using someone's first name. It's also for that reason that not everyone at the border always wants to talk. But we do have some interviews coming up for you tomorrow. Here's a clip from a discussion about this, which I recorded at the border last week, trying to get people's faces. And that's what everybody is doing. Our own meeting. I can't speak to what they're. That's what I'm doing. I don't know about other people. You should ask. You should. If you think someone's taking a photo of you, it's okay.

[Narrator / Host]

I don't have a photo everywhere.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Why? You know, I wish I could tell you. People who are subject to Title 42 expulsion are not given an opportunity to contest their expulsion on the grounds they would face persecution in the country to which they will be expelled. There's a very limited exception to Title 42 for people who spontaneously inform CBP officers that they fear being tortured in the country to which they will be expelled. However, in order to receive an official screening by an asylum officer for exemption under that provision, the CBP officer must first determine that the claim is reasonably believable. From March 2020 through September 2021, just 272 people were granted the right to seek asylum under this exception. The use of title 42 has been, despite the relative lack of outrage since the Biden administration took office, bipartisan. In 2021, a few weeks before Biden's inauguration, I spent some time talking to migrants at the southern border for slate. Many of them had come to a small tent city that popped up just feet from the pedestrian border crossing and the country that they had traveled thousands of miles to get to, but that they couldn't reach. You can see America through the fence there, but you can't get there. The camp was diverse in its composition. On one trip, I interviewed folks from Haiti, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, and Ethiopia. Here's what one of them said to me when he asked for his message to President Biden. You recognize his voice as Daniel's. That's because I don't have his permission to use his voice. Here we are appealing to President Biden. We aren't bad people. Our goal is to work and get ahead in the world for our children. We don't want to go back. They will kill us. So we are here. Some of them wore Biden T shirts, which I suspect were actually a plant by a right wing agent provocateur looking to make the new administration look weak. They needn't really have bothered with all the effort. Biden would do plenty in the next few months to make himself look cruel and unkind. Before we talk about that, I want to play you a clip from Biden's first press conference as president.

[Narrator / Host]

You just listed the reasons that people are coming, talking about in country problems, saying that it happens every year. You blamed the last administration. Sir, I just got back last night from a reporting trip to the border where I met 9 year old Josel who walked here from Honduras by himself along with another little boy. He had that phone number on him and we were able to call his family. His mother says that she sent her son to this country because she believes that you are not deporting unaccompanied minors like her son. That's why she sent him alone from Honduras. So, sir, you blamed the last administration, but is your messaging in saying that these children are and will be allowed to stay in this country and work their way through this process, encouraging families.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Like Jose to come? Well, look, the idea that I'm going to say, which I would never do.

[Narrator / Host]

That if an unaccompanied child ends up at the border, we're just going to let them starve to death and stay on the other side.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

No previous administration did that either, except Trump.

[Narrator / Host]

I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it. That's why I've asked the Vice President.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Of the United States yesterday to be the lead person on dealing with focusing on the fundamental reasons why people leave Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador in the first place in the coming months, some of which I covered for an op ed in NBC about the Biden administration's cruel treatment of Haitian migrants. Things on the border didn't get any better. Biden deported more Haitian people in a few weeks than the Trump administration did in a year. 895 people were deported in 2020 versus more than 1,200 people from January 20 to March 22, 2021. While making declarations about showing compassion to migrants. The Biden administration packed Haitians onto crowded planes and buses and sent them back to Haiti in the middle of a pandemic. In March, the US Sent another pointed disinvitation to Haitians. The US Embassy in Haiti tweeted a picture of President Joe Biden looking off into the distance with a caption in both English and Haitian Creole. In Creole, it read the translation above it I can say quite clearly, don't come over. In July of that year, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas, himself a child of parents who fled from Cuba, said the Haitians and Cubans fleeing unrest in their countries will not find safety in the US Even if they have a credible claim for asylum and especially if they flee by sea. In doing so, he was echoing statements that the US Broadcast from planes flying over Haiti following the devastating earthquake in 2010. Following these announcements, the US diverted resources that it could have used to help people from suffering in a country which had been destroyed by a natural disaster to stop them coming to this country. He was also overlooking that under both international and domestic law, asylum seekers are entitled to make claims no matter how they enter the country. Here's what Mayorkas said at his press conference. Allow me to be clear. If you take to the sea, you will not come to the United States. Part of this hard line is because of a perceived crisis at the border. You don't have to Go far on twitter.com before you run into people like Fox News. Bill Milligan. Yep, the tampon in the coffee guy is now a border reporter and he's shamelessly repeating CBP statistics about apprehensions on the southern border. Here he is talking to his buddy, Tucker Carlson. Do you remember that guy? Bill Meluchin has covered the border more.

[Narrator / Host]

Closely than any reporter in the United States for the last two years.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

And today, in his estimation, the single.

[Narrator / Host]

Largest caravan of illegal aliens flowing into this country in his two years of watching crossed. Today he broke the story.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

He's got remarkable video for us.

[Narrator / Host]

He's live at the border now. Bill, great to see you.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

What did you see? Tucker, good evening to you. You mentioned it right off the top. This was easily the biggest group we have ever seen during our 19 months of covering this border crisis. And they all crossed illegally into El Paso last night. And we got some pretty wild camera footage to show you. Take a look at this. This was last night in El Paso, a massive caravan of over 1000 illegal immigrants crossing into El Paso last night. Local media there reporting it was potentially up to 2,000 people and that it was possibly the biggest mass crossing in the city's history. Now, as you look at the video, you'll see just wave after wave after wave of these people walking across the river and then gathering on the US Side of the river, where they kind of form a single file line. But it's not just Fox News doing this. You'll see NPR and other more liberal outlets quoting these same statistics without the necessary context. They're not lying. Apprehensions are higher, but that is in some part because migrants are now crossing more than once. In 2019, before Title 42 went into effect, just 7% of migrants apprehended by the Border Patrol had previously been apprehended. The reapprehension rate grew to 27% in fiscal year 2022. This is because we're expelling people to places where they have no hope of a better future and not leaving them with many options other than to try again in more remote and risky settings. Meanwhile, there's much less concern from the right and from Democrats at the fact that Ukrainians are exempted from Title 42, and Russians and Ukrainians generally experience expedited processing of the sort which one would hope this country could offer to other people escaping conflicts around the world, including many that we started. I asked my friend Gustavo Solis, a border investigative reporter at KPBS in San Diego, to summarize the Biden administration's take on Title 42. On paper, the rationale is, there's a pandemic going on. We need to stop or slow the spread of COVID 19. So because of this extraordinary circumstance, we need Title 42 to shore up the board, the border. That was bullshit, and we know that now through reporting that it was total. We know that from as early as 2018. Stephen Miller, Trump's White House aide, wanted to use Title 42 to stop this type of migration. We know that Vice President Mike Pence pressured the top doctors at the CDC into doing this, basically saying, if you don't do this, you might lose your job. Because Even then, in March 2020, doctors at the CDC knew that there was no real public health rationale for this. I mean, if you look at the order, it's supposed to stop Covid. But there weren't any exceptions for migrants who were vaccinated or there was no testing component to it. So that's kind of the beginning of Title 42. By the time Biden came in office, Biden had promised to end it, along with remain in Mexico and restore the humane asylum system. But he kept title 42 in place. And he didn't just keep it in place, he expanded it to include nationalities that weren't included when Trump first rolled it out. Even as the legal battle went back and forth, another major bottleneck emerged in the migration system in the form of the never ending clusterfuck that is the CBP1 app. Again, I'll let Gustavo explain his reporting here. It actually kind of started with the Ukrainians. That was kind of how they. They started using it for the asylum context. But. But CBP1 is essentially a phone app for asylum. And, and on paper, it kind of makes sense, right? Instead of like, you know, Joe Biden and the Dems are really terrified of the optics of a lot of people.

[Narrator / Host]

At the border, and they.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

A lot of their policy is revolved around stopping that. Right? They don't want masses of people at the border. The CBP1 app aims to address that by telling migrants, hey, instead of coming all the way to Mexico and showing up at the border, just download this app and schedule an appointment to come here and we'll vet you to see if you're eligible for asylum or not. Another example of a policy in Washington D.C. that has like, no reality in what's going on in the border because migrants live in shelters with really bad WI fi access and they have crappy phones.

[Narrator / Host]

So what.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

What I found in the reporting is that CBP1 rewards people with the best phones, not necessarily people who are most vulnerable. And the story I came out with last week was about how data from the Mexican government shows that, at least In Tijuana, about 44% of every migrant who has gotten a CBP1 application to enter the country is a Russian national. And Russian nationals make up at most 10% of the overall migrant population in Tijuana. So you have this situation where a relatively affluent 10% of the population is getting almost half of these humanitarian protection appointments that are designed for the world's most vulnerable people. And that's what CEP1 does. Like it.

[Narrator / Host]

It.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

They call it the Ticketmaster of asylum. And that's not a compliment. That is like, Ticketmaster fucking sucks. Nobody likes it. I also spoke to Kaba, an activist who participated in mutual aid at the border. We talked about the app because Kaba has some professional insight into the technologies used.

[Narrator / Host]

I do data science and machine learning related things for a living. And the problem of building these systems trained entirely on databases of white faces and then not working for people of other ethnic backgrounds is very well known in this field. That is a very well documented issue for more than a decade. And anyone who could tell you that building a facial recognition or some kind of a camera app that does image processing and only training it on my faces, this is not something that I think any competent software development house would have done and not expected. So I have a hard time believing that the whole chain of everyone that's had to go through, from the developers on up to anyone who does it or has authority over these things at CBP or at Homeland Security, this is.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Just, it's like, I don't know, it's.

[Narrator / Host]

Hard to believe that this was enough.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Anyway, before we get too far from discussing things that fucking suck, here's an advertising break. You might be wondering why Title 42 is ending now and how we got here, given that there seems to be a consensus in D.C. that the border is in crisis and that that crisis is not the people we're leaving to die on the streets on the other side, or in the deserts of California and Arizona, but the people we're allowing to come to the richest country that's ever existed from countries that we've destabilized for decades to have a chance at a decent life. Well, the answer is complicated. Some of it's a bit too complicated for me to really spend the time explaining. And you don't really need to know the ins and outs of court cases to understand that. Essentially, the Biden administration had planned to end Title 42 in late 2022, right after the midterms. Title 42 actually became theoretically unenforceable in November of that year thanks to a court ruling. But the Supreme Court in December prevented the Biden administration amending Title 42, while the justices conceded a request by a group of Republican led states that want to continue the expulsions, which had previously been declared unlawful by lower court. Biden's Department of Justice had previously defended Title 42 as necessary to public health, but by the end of 2022 they were ready to end enforcement of Title 42 politically, even if they were nowhere near prepared on the ground. A coalition of Republican led states, however, managed to get a federal judge in Louisiana to prevent officials from ending Title 42, saying the Biden administration had not taken adequate steps required to terminate the policy. Then on November 15, another federal judge declared Title 42 unlawful, saying the CDC had not properly explained the policy's public health rationale or considered its impact on asylum seekers. At the request of the Biden administration, the judge gave border officials five weeks until December 21st to end Title 4219 Republican led states asked several courts to delay Title 42's rescission indefinitely, warning that chaos would otherwise ensue. After their request was denied by lower courts, the states asked the Supreme Court to intervene. On December 27, the Supreme Court said it would suspend the lower court order that found Title 42 to be illegal until it decided whether the Republican led states should be allowed to intervene in the case. That's some Christmas spirit for you. Eventually, with the end of the Federal Emergency over COVID 19, Title 42 just kind of went away. Customs and Border Protection, the federal agency which put up the most staunch resistance to vaccine mandates, would begin processing migrants under Title 8 of US immigration law on 11 May 2023. I'll let them summarise what they see this to mean. According to the USCIS website, individuals who unlawfully cross the southwest border will generally be processed under Title 8 Expedited Removal Authorities in a matter of days. They will be barred from re entry to the United States for at least five years if orders removed and they will be presumed ineligible for asylum under the proposed Circumvention of Lawful Pathways regulation, absent an applicable exception. What this means is if you cross into the United States not at the port of entry, you will be assumed ineligible for asylum and the process to remove you from the United States will begin immediately. You have a chance to file a defensive asylum claim against that, but the process can be rushed and more difficult. Despite this, and having almost three years to repair, they were by no means ready. Let's hear from Gustavo again. Gustavo, can you explain to us a little bit about what you found the Biden administration has been planning for the end of title 42? Yeah, well what I found is they haven't really been doing much planning. Right. I mean they talk about, I think with Title 42, it's a clear example of immigration policy being decided in Washington and no one really from the border being involved or told what's going on. So like I think it was last week DHS Secretary Mayorkas did this press release about what they're doing in terms of processing centers in Guatemala and Colombia. So people can just go there instead of coming all the way to the border, which actually there have been timelines of when those will open, but they announced all these things for like big picture things, right, to stop people from coming in the first place. Expanding some legal pathways, like making it easier for people with families already here to get sponsors fixing some of the little things with CBP1. But they don't talk about, like, on the ground logistics. Right. So, for example, I went to, to Tijuana to talk to the head of the Department of Migrant affairs there, who told me in this. And I checked with him yesterday morning who said still to this day, less than 48 hours before Title 42 ends, he doesn't know how many migrants CBP will allow to cross through the ports of entry in San Ysidro. His guess is that maybe 200, because that's kind of the number that they floated around in December when, when they originally wanted to get rid of Title 42 before the lawsuit. And if it's 200, he basically said Tijuana's going to be screwed because 200 doesn't even cover the number of new migrants coming in and deportees being sent to Tijuana. So it's going to like, we have this bottleneck of migration in Tijuana and all over the border because of Title 42. For the last three years, no one's been able to move. And if they just open it up to 200 people, that's not really going to address any of the bottleneck. Right. There's like, I think, is it 16,000 people are awaiting, like, an asylum application right now? Yeah, yeah. I hear different numbers thrown around, like 10,000, 15, 16. And nobody really knows because there's like a network of official shelters and there's a bunch of unofficial shelters and there's a bunch of Russian dudes staying in hotels and Airbnbs.

[Narrator / Host]

But.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

But I think, yeah, tens of Thousands. I think 16 is a. Is an accurate number. I think it's instructive here to listen to the Fox News coverage of this and how much Secretary Mayorkas tries to pander to them. I want to be very clear.

[Narrator / Host]

Our borders are not open.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas says when Title 42 expires at midnight tonight, anyone.

[Narrator / Host]

Who arrives at the southern border will be presumed ineligible for asylum and face consequences.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

But withholding facilities, already overwhelmed, the administration is ratcheting up tough rhetoric while also clearing the way for mass releases into.

[Narrator / Host]

US Communities with no way for authorities to track people.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

You said at the beginning that you've.

[Narrator / Host]

Prepared for this moment for almost two years. So why is part of that plan an honor system? Oh, it is not an honor system.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

They are a subject of our apprehension efforts. But under parole release authorized by the U.S. border Patrol Chief last night, migrants do not receive an alien registration number.

[Narrator / Host]

For authorities to track them.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

They don't even get a court date.

[Narrator / Host]

Instead, migrants are asked to turn themselves.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Into ice within 60 days to start immigration proceedings on themselves. The American people are watching this. They know what they see. They see a wide open border. Florida's attorney general is suing the administration, arguing the parole plan is identical to.

[Narrator / Host]

A policy a federal judge struck down earlier this year.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

We have confidence in the lawfulness of our actions. Plans to release migrants at bus stops.

[Narrator / Host]

Gas stations and supermarkets was first detailed last year, according to a memo uncovered.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

By the federal Florida legal proceedings. Today, Texas Governor Greg Abbott sent a busload of migrants to the vice president's residence. Greg Abbott's disgusting antics aside, there was a real attempt by the Biden administration to come to the Republican side on migration that we can see clearly here in the hours before we expected Title 42 to die. Folks like me who cover the border made plans the day before. On the 10th, Mayorkas announced that Title 42 would be enforced up until 11:59pm Eastern Time. And in San Diego, Border Patrol officers closed down the port of entry at San Isidro, the border town just south of San Diego, for a training exercise in which they lined up in front of the cars waiting to cross the border with plexiglass shields and riot gear. Meanwhile, in between the two 30 foot border fences that divide San Ysidro from Tijuana, Border Patrol began corralling migrants. Afghans, Colombians, Vietnamese, Koreans, Angolans, Sudanese, Tajiks and Congolese people all shared little more than a few tarps and cardboard boxes for shelter as they waited for something to happen. Despite having months to repair and years to plan, it appears that Department of Homeland Security totally failed to create so much as a scrap of shade or shelter and instead chose to house people detained pending processing in the open air. In tomorrow's episode, we'll hear from some of them. There's nothing like sinking into luxury.

[Narrator / Host]

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Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. Hey, it's Ed Helms.

[Narrator / Host]

And welcome back to snafu, my podcast.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

About history's greatest screw ups. On our new season, we're bringing you a new snap snafu. Every single episode. 32 lost nuclear weapons. You're like, wait, stop.

[Narrator / Host]

What? Yeah.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Ernie Shackleton sounds like a solid 70s basketball player who still wore knee pads. Yes. It's gonna be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of guests. The great Paul Scheer made me feel good. I'm like, oh, wow, Angela and Jenna.

[Narrator / Host]

I am so psyched you're here.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

What was what is that like for you to soft launch into the show? Sorry, Jenna, I'll be asking the questions today.

[Narrator / Host]

I forgot whose podcast we were doing. Nick Kroll. I hope this story is good enough.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

To get you to toss that sandwich.

[Narrator / Host]

So let's see how it goes.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Listen to season four of SNAFU with Ed Helms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All I know is what I've been.

[Narrator / Host]

Told and that to have truth is a whole lie.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went.

[Narrator / Host]

Unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed it.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv. Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

[Narrator / Host]

My name is Maggie Freeling.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer, and I wouldn't be here if the.

[Narrator / Host]

Truth were that easy to find.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y' all said.

[Narrator / Host]

They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

From lava for good. This is Graves County, a show about.

[Narrator / Host]

Just how far our legal system will.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Go in order to find someone to blame. America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns. Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley. Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.

[Narrator / Host]

Or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

And to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on.

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Apple Podcast.

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There's a vile sickness in Amber's Town. You must excise it, dig into the deep earth and cut it out. The village is ravaged. Entire families have been consumed.

[Narrator / Host]

You know how waking up from a.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Dream, a familiar place can look completely alien? Get back everyone. And if you see the devil walking.

[Narrator / Host]

Around inside of another man, you must.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Cut out the very heart of him, burn his body and scatter the ashes in the furthest corner of this town. As a warning from iHeart podcasts and grim and mild from Aaron Manke, this.

[Narrator / Host]

Is Havoc Town, a new fiction podcast.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Set in the Bridgewater Audio universe, starring.

[Narrator / Host]

Jewel State and Ray Wise.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Listen to Havoc town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The devil walks in.

[Narrator / Host]

For the sky that me I pray glory for them say my smile them I know I'm a storm be Can I watch me hey man grateful man grateful Once there is life God alone give me everything for some yeah enough sacrifice pick up to Jamaica we got to eat and come back home see yeah man, that's it.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

One Love Peace out on the 11th of May this year, title 42 finally ended. I actually began to write this episode the day before, on 10 May, but it was that day that DHS announced that Title 42 would be enforced until 8:59pm Pacific or midnight Eastern. They kept Title 42 in place for every single minute they could, and that same day 500 active duty troops arrived in El Paso and a thousand more set off for other border towns to join the 2,500 troops already deployed to the border. According to a press release from the Department of Homeland Security, CBP and US Immigration and Customs Enforcement are further expanding detention capacity, ramping up removal flights and shifting agents and officers to high priority regions along the southwest border. This week, CBP opened two new holding facilities and the Department of Health and Human Services is increasing its bed capacity to prepare for a potential increase in unaccompanied children. DHS also launched targeted enforcement operations in high priority regions along the border, including El Paso, to quickly process migrants and place them in removal proceedings. DHS last week also announced over $250 million in additional assistance for communities receiving migrants on the ground. This assistance and planning didn't exactly meet the task at hand, albeit the specific call out of El Paso does suggest that they saw their task as not looking bad in the right wing media. Here's some audio recorded after a couple of Hours walking around talking to people at San Ysidro, where Customs and Border Protection had detained around 500 people in between the two 30 foot fences that make up the border between San Ysidro and Tijuana. I'm just for people familiar with San Diego, like in the Tijuana River Valley park by International Hill, where Border Patrol are holding people in between the. The two border fences. For those who thought we didn't have a border wall or weren't having a border wall, we have at least two, sometimes three, but right here we have two. People are being put in between these fences by Border Patrol. So I just spoke to some young Colombian women who had crossed about 15 miles east of here and then been relocated here. And they're in between these borders walls. They don't have running water. What food and water they have appears to be being supplied by volunteers on the northern side. They've just been given space, blankets, but lots of people are literally sleeping under bin bags right now. Blankets, it's pretty bright toilet sort of thing that we can see about 500 people. So it kind of gives you an idea of the conditions. Obviously those don't live up to the detention conditions that Border Patrol are supposed to hold people under. But here we are, I guess Border Patrol have just said that they're calling an ambulance. There have been a number of medical emergencies. There nearly always are in these situations, because you're holding people, you know, old people, young people, sick people, and they're in the sun all day, they're in the cold all night. If it rains, they get wet. If it's hot, they get hot. If it's cold, they get cold. Their little children were just asking me for a blanket a minute ago, which is always a pretty bleak thing. If you've not been here, you'd be forgiven for not knowing that. We have a double layer of walls separating us from our neighbours in Tijuana. Both sections are now the Trump era design. But we're standing in a place where not so very long ago, Nancy Reagan stood and said she hoped that there wouldn't be a fence here for very long. Now there are two towering walls and there are little children stuck sleeping in the dust between them. All the aid to these people had to go through the wall too, and that meant no hot meals because the gaps are smaller than a plate. Someone tried to bring tents, but they wouldn't fit. Everything from food to clothes to medical supplies had to go through the gaps in the war. Hamaru Yousefi, a volunteer from the Partnership for The advancement of new Americans described to me what she saw that night.

[Narrator / Host]

I see about 500 beautiful, smiling faces of people who are desperately trying to get to safety. And they're confused. They don't know what's going on. They don't know how long it will take them. You know, many of them are aware that something is happening today. Many of them are asking, does this mean that I'll be turned back? What is going on? I see people who don't even have many kids, don't have shoes, they don't have. I talk to individuals who lost everything on them. They don't have jackets. They're trying to cover themselves with any kind of covering that they have. Some of them using trash bags, others using scarves and other types of things to cover themselves from the sun. We are in San Diego, so it's quite sunny here.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

The first thing I noticed on arrival with the dozens of hands sticking through the wall holding phones and chargers. That's because people need to use the CBP1 app to interact with border enforcement. But they've been detained by the same border enforcement in between two walls in an open field where there obviously isn't any electricity. They also need their phones to stay in touch with their families, to let them know they survived a difficult and dangerous journey and that they're now technically inside the usa. Here's the advert, a CBP broadcast in Spanish to encourage asylum seekers to download the app before they put them in a place they couldn't charge their phones. Attention, migrants in Mexico City or further.

[Narrator / Host]

North in the country.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Why do you need to download CBP1? It's a free and legal way to get an appointment guaranteed at a port of entry. It's a clear way to solicit asylum and you have the possibility to work while your case is being processed. If you present without an appointment, you can be prohibited from entering the US for five years. You will be subject to expedited deportation unless you comply with the strict requirements of the asylum process. In the majority of cases, it is assumed that migrants do not comply with the requirements for asylum and you won't have the right to work unless you comply with the strict requirements. Again, if you are now in Mexico City or further north. North, download CBP1. As we heard yesterday, CBP1 has been an unmitigated disaster and has shown a very clear bias towards certain types of wealthy and white asylum seekers. Despite that, it seems to have been the only plan in place at the end of Title 42. The hundreds of people detained in between defences presumably didn't have appointments and with no way to charge their phones, they couldn't make them. It's not clear if making them would have helped, as it seems that they were already being detained and thus they would have to file a defensive asylum claim, effectively stopping the repatriation process by claiming that they couldn't safely be sent back to their country of origin. This is opposed to making an affirmative asylum claim that people should have been able to make at the border with a CBP1 appointment. These would not have to be argued with the threat of repatriation hanging over the person making the claim. Volunteers, local people, a mosque group and a church group all showed up soon after CBP began dumping more people in between the fences. An hour after my own arrival, I'd given away all the charge cables that I had in my truck, which is a lot more charged cables than I thought I had in my truck and all my charged bricks accrued over six years of getting free shit at the Consumer Electronics show in Las Vegas. Later I came back with a massive solar generator that I like to use when I'm living off grid. But I still need to write stuff. Even all my home electronics ephemera and the combined efforts of non profits, religious and mutual aid groups couldn't really make much difference to the 500 people from around the world, mostly families with children, being held between the two fences. When it got hot, they got hot. When it got cold, they got cold. When the wind blew, they got dust in their eyes and everything was constantly dirty. The only hot food volunteers could get to them was pizza. Some of the detained people had cash and they were able to order doordash on the Tijuana side. But again, the meals had to fit through a hole barely wider than my arm. The only way to get clean was with wet wipes and there was only one bathroom. There was no shade or shelter either. And the only way people could construct shelters was through tying tarps to the border wall itself. Oleg Kaiba, one of the volunteers who came to help, describe what they saw when participating in mutual aid a couple of days after.

[Narrator / Host]

It definitely was. I don't think it really struck me until, you know, after. After everything and, you know, after I left several hours later. But the kind of. I mean, I. I had read about the situation at the border, but the kind of matter of factness of there's just several hundred people, including children, just kind of between this fence and they're just stuck there with nothing and the sort of matter of factness of that all was, I think, the part that struck me the most and has been the most challenging to process.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

In the days before the end of Title 42, confusion had reigned at the border. A lot of people I talked to mentioned that they thought they had to cross before the end of title 42 or they would be ejected and not able to apply for five years under Title 8. This misunderstanding might in part be due to some of the misleading rhetoric put out by Mayorkas and others, which focused on the harsh penalties for crossing between ports of entry in an attempt to appear strong on the border. To their colleagues in D.C. they didn't place as much emphasis on the right to present and claim asylum at a port of entry, but as we saw yesterday, it's virtually impossible to actually do that, and Tijuana is already full of thousands of people trying to do that exact thing. Given the set of circumstances, it makes sense that many people took the days before the end of Title 42 as a final chance to cross. Before Title 42 ended, I spoke to Diana Rodriguez from Colombia about her understanding of what was going to happen later that night.

[Narrator / Host]

Diana Rodriguez, the Colombian Diana was with.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Two friends, all of them wearing little daisies in their hair and sharing a tarp shelter they'd made by tying a blue tarp against the wall so they could get some shade and privacy. I asked her where the flowers had come from. You'll hear the rest of the interview voiced by Shireen.

[Narrator / Host]

Oh, the flowers, the flowers. Well, there are these little flowers, flowers that are growing here, like in a garden. So when we went and took a walk over there and we found them, we put them on and they're pretty. We call these the little yellow flowers of hope, and they match the color of our bracelet. We picked them on the day we arrived and we knew that we needed a little bit of encouragement. We got the yellow bracelets because we arrived on Tuesday. Everyone got the same bracelet.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

I asked Deanna what she'd heard about Title 42, which was ending a few hours after we talked.

[Narrator / Host]

Yes, it's the end of Title 42. Title 42 is the one that endorses mass deportations. Yes. And. Well, it's a question of you not just getting deported, but being repatriated. In other words, after this, they do a full repatriation. But right now you are not registered in the system. But what they do is that they only return you. They don't register you. But let's say, on the basis of Article 8, is that if you, at least we are invading American territory, then we are, in effect, breaking a law. And what Article 8 does is that they deport you and they put you in the registered database saying that you broke the law and they punish you for five years, and you lose the right to request your asylum through legal channels.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

People at another camp in Jacumba heard the same thing from Colombians. And it seems like there are even news pieces run on domestic television explaining that US Planned to return many Colombians in the coming months. And this might be the last best chance to cross the border without permanent consequences if you got caught in the Cumba. Volunteers estimated that two thirds of the people corralled under the desert sun were from Colombia. Of course, in recent years, there has been instability and violence there, which also drives migration. One of my sources also mentioned a lot of Colombian people had seen misleading information about immigration law on TikTok. Two days had passed since Deanna arrived. She came with one of the girls she was now sharing a tarp with and met another when they were all dumped in the camp together. In the days before they were detained here, they crossed three countries on their way to what they hoped was a better life for young women like them. I asked them to describe that journey for me.

[Narrator / Host]

Eight days. Eight days, more or less, walking from Colombia, from El Salvador to Guatemala, then Mexico to here. All that time walking and taking the bus. There's a part 15 or 20 minutes from here where the wall ends, and we crossed there. There was a Mexican patrol, and when they changed shifts, we ran. And here we are on American soil. We arrived on foot, and the police brought us here. They opened the gate and dropped us here.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Along the way, she said they'd run into a lot of people. The migrant journey north is such a common trek that people living along the way have found a way to make a buck, but also a way to make a difference. It's not uncommon for migrants to be extorted, robbed, or threatened. It's also not uncommon for them to be fed by strangers, perhaps handing off bags with food in them to passing trains or buses, or perhaps given a place to sleep for the night by someone they might never see again.

[Narrator / Host]

There were parts where we were extorted. They took all the money we brought, they robbed us, they stole our passports, they stole our documents. So it's always quite dangerous. Let's say that it's dangerous to take this journey, yes. Just as we have met some bad people along the way, we have also met some very good people, people, people who have given us a hand, people who have helped us, people who have collaborated with us in ways you least expect.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

I asked Deanna what she hoped for. Now, she was technically inside the usa.

[Narrator / Host]

Yes, let's say the hope is that they will listen to our case, listen to our case and let us fight the case inside. Yes, because we want to be able to explain the conditions we are in and the reasons that those of us who are here came here. Things like extortion, kidnapping, and because our lives are in danger in Colombia. So we wish that they at least listen to our case and let us plead our cause.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Before we started recording, Deanna asked what network I was with. I thought that was an astute question. Networks like Fox show up at the border, Although I didn't see any Fox national reporters on my trip. Certainly local news channel Kusi was there, but their reporting on the ground differed from their xenophobic and outright incorrect online coverage. I asked Deanna what you'd want to say to folks who might have had their perspective influenced by the constant demonization of migrants by right wing media.

[Narrator / Host]

There are many people who, let's say, are in a mindset of not wanting migrants and they view them with contempt because where xenophobia exists, it's hard for us because we suffer along the way. We would like you to change your way of seeing things and your way of thinking so that you don't look.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

At us with contempt.

[Narrator / Host]

We have a saying in Colombia that says that he who was born in a golden cradle never suffers or never sees what he does not know. So it's hard when you're born in a golden cradle and you don't see beyond what you have. So there are people that, in our case, in my case, I lived a very hard life where you see the war between armed groups. They exist outside the law and they can control an area. And you see the kidnapping, you see the rape of girls, recruitment, extortion, death. Yes. So it's hard when we experience that. And people say things like, these migrants are coming to invade our country. We also ask them to treat us as people, because if we are here, it is not because we want to invade a territory. It is because we want to come to fight for a better future for our children without stepping on anyone. Nobody wants this, but where we come from, we receive travelers with open arms. And it's hard when one is a migrant, when one lives the experience of being a migrant, it is a very hard thing to be a migrant. Having to endure cold, hunger, rain, sun, that is, all these things. And then arriving here and seeing faces of contempt. It's hard. It is very hard. So, yes, the important thing is that people must know that being an immigrant is not easy. Being an immigrant is not easy.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

One of her friends who she was sharing a tarp with, leaned over to give an example.

[Narrator / Host]

Everyone despairs because everyone wants to leave. So everyone sees each other as enemies. So let's say, for example, right now when they are sending cars to collect people to process, so everyone there thinks, I hope they take me. Then when they don't, it gets to a point where, yes, where you despair. I mean, it's desperate but, well, everyone, everyone is in the fight together. All in the.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

After yet another dusting down from a CBP agent who really liked to razz his quad bike past the mutual aid tables spoke to a man from Angola. I leave his name out as he preferred for me not to share it. He'd been in Tijuana for three days, he said, and was waiting his chance to plead his case for asylum. It's just me and my sister. We suffered a lot. There were bandits. We came here to be safe. It's no way to live. People broke into our house to violate women, to look for people. And I was injured then, yeah, why did I leave to come here? Over there, they're not.

[Narrator / Host]

They're not the means to live.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

We didn't get a chance to talk for long and some of the recording I got wasn't very good. He was waiting in line for food and to be quite honest, I don't like prodding people to share their trauma. But with so many journalists crowding the border asking them to do just that, it tends to be what people offer. Lots of African migrants can be quite cautious of the media because talking to the media at home could get them in trouble. I spoke to a friend of mine, himself, a migrant from Africa. He said that if migrants don't speak English or Spanish, it can be very hard for them to get information. And there aren't as many non profits set up to serve them as there are for Spanish speaking people, for example. They can often end up isolated and alone. I did get a better chance to talk to a Jamaican man called Joseph. It's his singing you've heard at the start of this episode. Mostly we talked about things in America, about how he lost his phone on his journey. We got him another one at Walmart, and about things like football and music. I didn't record all of that because sometimes it's nice to just talk to people. Hopefully it makes their day a bit brighter and gives them some information Maybe that could help. He did let me record a bit of an interview and some of him singing. He was pretty guarded on the recording, but as you can hear in this clip, we had a good time when we weren't recording.

[Narrator / Host]

Yeah, you want your best one?

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Yeah, he's got a limber up. He's got to get my mouth up.

[Narrator / Host]

There we go. You know, it's legend like Bob Molly Scorn of Northcoin Likely and El Messy em for the sky that may appreciate once there is life God alone give me everything for survive yeah. Enough sacrifice big up to join Jamaica.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

We got to eat and come back home.

[Narrator / Host]

See? Yeah, man. That's it. One love Peace out.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

That was beautiful.

[Narrator / Host]

Yeah. I'm Joseph.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

I asked him about some of the stuff we spoke about before, but he didn't want to share it.

[Narrator / Host]

Yeah, that's the whole testimony. Me and you and God have to go into church for that. But I'm going give you that next time.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Okay, buddy? All right. Joseph experienced a lot of personal harm from conflict back home in Jamaica and had a difficult journey here with his five year old son.

[Narrator / Host]

Yeah, it's rough. It's rough out there, man. You know, it's rough.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

How did you come like you come. I asked him how his young son had dealt with the journey. It's not a safe or easy one for an adult, let alone for a little child.

[Narrator / Host]

It's just kind of scary. But he pulled you.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Yeah, that's good.

[Narrator / Host]

You have my energy inside.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Yeah, that's good. Yeah. Are you. How's he finding it here in the camp?

[Narrator / Host]

Oh, yeah, at the camp. I don't know, but that guy is just like me. We just don't make anything better. Yeah, but it's, it's working here because you guys give you the strength and.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Supporting us, you know. Joseph wanted me to know that he wasn't giving up his home. He loves Jamaica, but he also wants a better life for his son.

[Narrator / Host]

It's not that. It's not that. It's not like I'm giving away my home. My home is a good place.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Narrator / Host]

A good island. Nice place to be.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Of course, this perspective is very common and it's one that often gets left out of reporting. Coming to the USA is a very hopeful act. It's not abandoning your family or your home. It's trying to make their lives better and your life livable. Joseph was quite guarded with his story and that's fine. It's his to share as much or as little as he wants. I came to the USA without having to get persecuted or hurt. And people who don't look like me should have that same right as well. Sadly, coming to the USA is also scary and confusing even for me, with three university degrees and all the intersectional privilege I have and 15 years living here and a recently minted US passport. Now I worried for years that maybe I'd made a mistake on a form or missed some kind of deadline. Speaking of deadlines, what none of the migrants could tell us, what they all wanted to ask about was exactly what was happening to them as Title 42 expired. A Congolese lady asked me if her passport would be confiscated. A lady from Senegal asked if she needed to pay a bribe like the one she'd paid in Mexico. It wasn't really clear at first if these people were being detained and under what process they were being received. Would they be sent back to Mexico under Title 42, repatriated under Biden's interpretation of Title 8, or given the right to plead their case, as international and US law suggests they should be able to? CBP made people sit in lines all day with no indication of when they would be taken to the port of entry for processing. Sometimes I heard people saying if everyone didn't sit down, there would be. Nobody processed that day. But the only food, water and medical attention available to the migrants was that which could be passed through the wall, and they had to get out of their lines to receive this aid. I'll let Kaba describe what this looked like.

[Narrator / Host]

They had people waiting in lines the whole. Like you had to sit in a line in a specific assigned spot. But it wasn't always clear if those. How those lines actually worked, because they would kind of take people from lots of places. I think they might have been prioritizing families with children or people with some kind of medical needs or something like that, but you would never know when they were going to come. And we didn't seem to know also who they were going to choose to take. We assumed we didn't know exactly where they were taking them, but we assumed they were taking the port of entry in San Ysidro, which is about a mile away. And so what would always happen when they come and get a group is like three or four people from that group would sprint over to the wall because we still had their phones, and CBP wasn't going to wait for us to get the phones.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

One thing a lot of people we talked to shared was that there was another camp which we later found housed as many as 800 single men. It's fairly usual to keep single men apart from families, but keeping them in an inaccessible place without adequate food or water is not usual. The camp was further west, and despite repeated requests from myself and others, including those delivering aid, we were not allowed to access it. One pair of Jamaican twins, both young men, told me they had walked up there and that things were very bad. People were only given one small water bottle of granola bar every day, they said. One person told me they'd heard people eating grass. I asked CBP's press office for information on this, but they didn't respond. Here's one clip of a man trying to explain how bad things were there. It's hard to communicate across language barriers, and with a wall between you, it's even harder. But I could tell he was very concerned for the folks we couldn't get to. Despite myself and others trying and me addressing this issue directly in emails to cbp, I never got any response on why people were not allowed to help the single men in the other camp. Just not helping.

[Narrator / Host]

One water?

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Yeah, little water, one chocolate. Nothing else. No food, no water, blanket, clothes, nothing. I'll go try and go up there. Even with these camps being pretty desperate places, folks look after one another. We spoke a lot with one lady who spoke English. She was there with her own family, but she was also looking after two Tajik children who'd come alone. Their mother spoke a little English, so she relayed news to the children by calling their mother and having her translate it for her children. Other folks took it upon themselves to try and walk to the camp for single men with water. And people constantly helped us find the owners of phones by wandering through the rows of people sheltering under tarps and space blankets to look for people who had left us their devices to charge. In a Kumba, a town an hour or so east of San Diego, things were worse. Kumba's home to a cute hotel, a lovely lake, a hot spring and an awful lot of big rocks. When the border wall was being built in earnest before the 2020 election, they skipped some of the harder areas. Perhaps they figured it would be too hard to cross there. It's not. Perhaps they wanted to maximize the mileage before election day. Well, it didn't help much, but either way, for some reason the wall just takes a little break in Hukumba, and this makes crossing marginally easier there. However, the boulder fields, scorching hot days and cold nights make it anything but easy. On Thursday night, 11 May, locals in Okumba became aware that CBP were holding people on a dirt road in the open desert just a few miles east of town and a few hundred feet from the wall. The people held, they didn't have access to toilets, running water, or shelter. With every hour that went past, the number of people grew. The biggest camp soon held over a thousand people desperately trying to scratch out little shade in the desert. Other smaller camps popped up. One was apparently in someone's yard. And the people of this tiny desert town set about helping as best they could. Soon they were joined by volunteers from all over the county. Katie was one of those volunteers. She doesn't live in Okumba, but her friends do, and her family sometimes spends time there. Once she heard about what was happening, she knew she had to help. I let her describe her feelings after she saw the posts online and then drove out to Akumba to see what she could do to help.

[Narrator / Host]

At first, I was just super touched by the activation and the caring. And my son was asleep, comfortable in his car seat, you know, in our Mercedes van. And my husband is still trying to get citizenship after being here since he was two years old.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

So.

[Narrator / Host]

And we're married, and he pays taxes. And when I saw our friends activating, I just told him, tomorrow's Mother's Day and I need to come back here, and it's not safe for you here. So when I first arrived, I thought it was kind of odd that everything was organized around a random road that has a gate, and there were five, only five, border patrol at the time. And about that was a larger camp. So I want to say at least 800 people, maybe a thousand. I didn't see them all because many, many of them received their donations and the assistance and went back to their shelters.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

A few days after the migrants arrived, I camped out in Hukumba. I was cold in my sleeping bag at night and dizzy in the sun in the day. It's not a place where you'd want to be stuck outside for long, but it's a place where 1500 or so people were held for days, little more than the shelters they built out of creosote and mesquite to protect their families from the elements. They slept on the dirt or in cardboard boxes left over from the food. Volunteers fed them and under whatever folks in tiny desert Khan could find to give them. By the time I arrived, the migrants were gone and volunteers were cleaning up. The landscape was dotted with impressively constructed brush shelters. Volunteers from Hukumba set up tables to distribute food, blankets, water, and clothing. Other volunteers Stayed away from the camp itself and spent time packing things into individual sizes, Perhaps combining hats and socks and maybe a toy for a child in one bag, or breaking down Costco packages of snacks into individual portions. It's not necessarily the most rewarding task, but it's an important one. I asked Marissa, another volunteer who had previously worked in San Diego for the Forest Service, what she felt when we were cleaning out some of those shelters together a couple of days later.

[Narrator / Host]

I don't know the best way to say this, but what hit me deeper was when this might seem strange, but when I saw women's sanitary napkins or the diapers or the babies, like, it was kind of like a fabric padded crib bassinet type thing that suddenly hit me on a deeper level. It'll make me emotional because it's like. Then you start to realize, like, wow, what if that was me and my child? Or I'm not a mother. But I can only imagine what that must be like for them to be going through these things as a. As a woman being on your. On your period and being out and not having anything, you know, going to the bathroom out there.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

What.

[Narrator / Host]

What do you use when you don't have those supplies? So, yeah, it just. That was when it hit me deeper and. And I knew I was doing the right thing by being out there and helping in whatever way I could, Because I don't. I don't. When it comes to the politics side of it, when it comes to.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Like.

[Narrator / Host]

Legality and just different aspects of it in that way, I don't have necessarily an opinion one way or another. I'm not educated enough to feel like I can argue one way or another or defend one position or another. I went out there purely for my love of humanity and I think being able to support in whatever way I can, that was the. The way that I felt like I could serve and be a support.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Katie hadn't expected to meet migrants at the camp. When she first showed up, she knew it was important not to flood the camp with volunteers, and their help was needed. Packaging and preparing aid drops, which she was happy to do. But in the end, she traveled up to the camp with a friend who spoke Portuguese so they could help translate and distribute supplies. I asked her what it was like to see the supplies she'd purchase a few hours before end up in the hands of people who desperately needed them.

[Narrator / Host]

They don't even have a grocery store in Jacumba. They have one mini mart with nothing in it, and that was sold out the first day so these people who we would look at without a lot of resources passing the abundance of what they actually have. I saw a lot of families there. I. I could tell that there were leaders within the group because they were helping organize as much as the volunteers were. And unfortunately, there was language barriers, you know, and so those that could speak multiple languages, whether they were border crossers or volunteers, were together in it. And that was part of that organization that I'm talking about, you know, and it was actually a very calm scene when we first came up. I saw my son's hat that I donated and a little boy hugging this jaguar stuffed animal. And the jaguar was really significant to my friend and I when we found it. So it was really touching just to like, see, see the things that we were bringing being literally being distributed. Like sometimes when you think you're helping. I work for a door to door campaign when I was in my teens and I got 50% of what I raised and it was like disheartening and you're like, oh, this is how it works. And in this case, money that I directly spent on resources that were needed was going directly to the people.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

In all likelihood, people crossed in a specific spot because someone dropped them there, telling them it would be easy. In fact, it was anything but. People die crossing around here. In the dirt around Hukumba, I found discarded flight itineraries and documents from Turkey, Nicaragua, Colombia, Mexico. There were also little children's toys, shoes, and hundreds of empty water bottles which we diligently picked up. But none of the more than 1,000 people who the Border Patrol held in this camp had planned for what they got, which was several days being detained in the desert by CBP with insufficient water, no shelter and very little food, and no information on what was happening or how long they could expect to be there. Sadly, didn't get there in time to speak to any of them. I was in Arizona looking for border vigilantes and wondering what CBP had been doing to migrants there, where they have the full support of local law enforcement and a large percentage of the aging population. To my surprise, I didn't find much. It seems like most people had crossed in the San Diego county area. Many had flown or walked to Tijuana. Of course, migrants just like us have access to the news and to weather forecast and maps. Crossing in Arizona, a place known for cruelty and very hot weather, doesn't make any sense when California offers a better political and weather climate. And with the mixed messages coming out about immigration law, these folks may not have been intending to evade border Patrol, but to come to the USA and stake their legal right to claim asylum. I spoke to Sam, a volunteer with extensive on the ground experience in humanitarian crises, about what he'd seen at the camp. Oh, my name is Sam Schultz. He said many of the people who found themselves in a kumba had likely been told by people smugglers that this was an easy way into the U.S. in the end, it was anything but. They, I mean, I know they didn't expect that they were just waltz across the border at a normal check station, but they thought it was going to be.

[Narrator / Host]

They were sold a bill of goods.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Let'S put it that way.

[Narrator / Host]

Yes, that's it.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

And so, I mean, I feel sorry.

[Narrator / Host]

For anybody who's taken advantage of it like that.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

But most of the people that I met, again, who are not Colombians, yeah, Were of the wealthier side of the on their countries. I met some Uzbekis, some Kazakhs, a bunch of people from India, a couple of Pakistani guys. I mean they didn't get here cheap. The wall behind the people in Jacumba cost $25 million a mile on average. The Border Patrol agents drove around in F150 Raptor trucks that start at $80,000 and each make a starting salary of over $60,000 in their first year. Surveillance towers that dot the desert, including one which provided a tiny scrap of shade to migrants resting under its solar panels, can cost a million dollars apiece. But people in Okumba received only one small water bottle each day despite the punishing weather. Although Customs and Border Protection did not seem to make any plan to shelter migrants in Hukumba, they did plan to have contractors paid $40 an hour to take them away. I found a job advert for a southwest border transportation and security officer at ISS Action Security, the agency photograph transporting migrants in Hukumba. The job posting, which was posted two weeks before the end of Title 42, has a description that includes patting down all detainees and applying appropriate restraints prior to boarding vehicles. The process through which migrants become detainees normally involves processing which had not been done in Nakumba. But it seems a presumption of ineligibility announced on the day Title 42 ended came into effect here. This might seem a minor distinction, but it's important. It means that people have to file a defensive asylum claim and not an affirmative one. They have to plead why they shouldn't be deported rather than why they have a right to stay. Many of the people will have been trying to cross before the end of Title 42, like Diana because they felt they would face a less serious penalty, many of them flew to Tijuana Walk from further south in Mexico or even in Central America, and likely spent their entire savings on a trip to the Gap in the Wall near Jacumba that ended with them being held by Border Patrol in the open desert with next to nothing in the way of shelter, sanitation or sustenance. As a way to quantify this, I want to reference a UCSD US Immigration Policy Centre report. It apparently had some pretty problematic practices, but anyway, these are results from its survey. When asked whether Border Patrol gave them enough water for the day, over half of the asylum seekers that we interviewed, approximately 53% said no. Border Patrol distributed one water bottle to each migrant in the morning. When asked whether Border Patrol gave them enough food for the day, all of the asylum seekers said no. Border Patrol did not distribute any food. When asked whether Border Patrol provided adequate sanitation, such as toilets, all of the asylum seekers that we interviewed, meaning 100%, said no, Border Patrol provided one porta potty for the entire encampment. When asked whether Border Patrol provided adequate shelter, such as shade to protect them from the sun, all of the asylum seekers that we interviewed said no. Border Patrol did not provide any shelter. When asked whether Border Patrol provided blankets to keep them warm at night, all but one of the asylum seekers we interviewed said no. Border Patrol provided blankets to some migrants, but the overwhelming majority did not receive blankets. Altogether, 2/3 of the asylum seekers we interviewed said that they agree or strongly agree with the statement, if I did not receive food and water from volunteers, I would not get enough food and water from Border Patrol to survive. These aren't exaggerations. As we'll see. Several migrants did come very close to losing their lives in the five or more days that CBP detained people out in the open along the border. Medical incidents in this kind of detention are far from uncommon. A lawsuit filed against Customs and Border Protection by the Southern Border Communities Coalition regarding their actions this week stated that many migrants have fallen into medical distress because of the conditions and CBP has been slow to provide access to medical attention, often only responding at the insistence of advocates. As a result, one woman suffered life threatening allergies, a child suffered an epileptic seizure, and a man suffered an unattended infection on his leg. Medical attention was slow to arrive and when it did arrive it was often insufficient. I'll let Kaber describe the conditions they saw a couple of days after the end of title 42.

[Narrator / Host]

That's really the part that is hard to Understate. The conditions there were not safe or sanitary. I guess this is sort of related to the medical issues. But there was. It's been, you know, to their credit, this aspect has been reported in the media. But there was a single portable toilet for anywhere from. I guess there's probably 300 to 400 people there. I heard a couple different citations of how often this toilet is serviced and cleaned and the waste removed anywhere from once or twice a week to once every week or two weeks. Either way, that's not remotely sufficient for 400 people using the bathroom multiple times a day in this single portable, like just a construction site toilet. It was right next to the phone charging station on the other side of the wall. And my. I would just feel sick if I got. If I sit too close to it. It was really vile. It was not safe. It is not a way for people to be healthy. And I do know, I think a lot of, thankfully people stop using it, but then they don't have any, you know, privacy or that's still not, you know, a sanitary, you know, situation to be in since, I mean, they don't have a few space where they were. So that's definitely one of the ways that people are being neglected in terms of their health and safety.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Here's Hamira, who we'll hear more from tomorrow, describing another medical incident.

[Narrator / Host]

And the call that I got this morning was of a woman who was rushed out because she had an emergency situation, taken to the hospital. The hospital didn't know what to do with her, so they sent her right back here. In the middle of the night. In the middle of the night. And they brought her here. She doesn't have any documents. CBP didn't get a chance to process her yet. So she doesn't even have any proof that she actually came to the port of entry and tried to seek asylum. And she was just sleeping right here. And she has burns all over her body, has an infection. I read the, the. The seven medications that they gave her. And she speaks daddy. She's from Afghanistan. Her husband got taken by the Taliban and she escaped running for her life. And she's here and she has sunburns all over her face and she has nowhere to go. She thought she was still detained. She actually thought she was still detained. She was just trying to get back to the other side of the border. She thought she was still in Mexico. No one explained anything to her. They brought her back here in the middle of the night and she was freezing. And so we brought. That's why I came out here, I talked to her. The other folks who were out here didn't know why she was just sleeping here. And I came out and tried and translated and now we have her at a hotel.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Kaba witnessed one of the emergencies described in the Southern Border Communities Coalition lawsuit when they visited to the camp. Here's em describing it in terms of.

[Narrator / Host]

You know, medical care as well. Like I said, one of the parts of the operation that was going on was people. I think it was a combination both of people who were in street medicine as well as people who were like nurses volunteering their time and things like that and mostly taken care of, just kind of routine first aid for the most part. There was a situation where someone was having an allergic reaction, a fairly severe one, and I happen to carry an EpiPen, so I simply give that to one of the street medics and then they eventually did pull this person. The reaction got severe enough that it was an hour or so later that 911 was called, I assume by one of the volunteers and ambiguants and border patrol came to open the gate and bring this person to the country. They did eventually treat her, but it was a very, it was a long time after the onset of symptoms, which is someone, as someone who has anaphylaxis, reactions to food and has had that happen many times in her life. That is an absolutely terrifying. I cannot imagine how terrifying it will be to be experiencing a life threatening situation when you are trapped and there's no authority that really cares that you're there. And I don't know if you would have been able to get help if there hadn't been volunteers on the other side of the wall, especially ones with.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Medical training where volunteers weren't. Things were worse in Texas. Anatis Tanay Reyes Alvarez, an 8 year old girl born in Panama to Honduran parents, died in CBP custody. Rosel Reyes, the girl's father, told NBC News that they gave authorities documents about the girl's medical conditions, congenital heart disease and sickle cell anaemia while they were in immigration custody. They said that a doctor there examined Anedith and that she had contracted the flu. Alvarez, her mother, said she spoke to both detention authorities and medical personnel at the station multiple times to explain her daughter was complaining of pain and shortness of breath and that she was getting worse. I'll quote the next part directly from the NBC story. They never listened to me, she said. Reyes said his daughter was in a lot of pain, a lot of pain. I begged them to call an ambulance, Alvarez said, adding that authorities told her the girl's condition wasn't serious enough to warrant calling an ambulance. Alvarez said her daughter begged authorities as well, telling them she could not breathe from her nose or mouth. Alvarez says that eventually her daughter lost consciousness and died in my arms. She said authorities took the girl from her arms and put her on the floor trying to revive her. My daughter died there in the station, she said. Avra said she feels authorities did not do enough to help her little girl. My daughter is a human being. They had to take care of her, she said. Despite what you might have heard on the network news, the asylum process is anything but easy. I've had several visas, a green card and a US passport, and I can confidently tell you the only easy way I've ever seen to come here is to be very rich. But even among the convoluted bureaucratic mess that is US immigration, the asylum process stands out as both rigorous and complicated. Asylum is a process by which people, unable or unwilling to return to their country because of persecution or a well founded fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, politics or membership of a particular social group, may remain in a safe country. From 11 May onwards, migrants at the border were assumed ineligible for asylum if they crossed between points of entry. They must enter the defensive asylum process to prevent themselves from being deported. What this means for people we heard from earlier is that they are now taken from whatever godforsaken holding area they're in and bussed to a processing facility where they're interviewed by an asylum officer to determine if they have a credible fear of persecution. They may need to provide a translator if there isn't an interviewing agent who speaks their language. And if they're determined to have a credible fear, they're told to check in with the US Customs and immigration officers and sometimes given a notice which may or may not be dated to appear in court. My colleague Joe tried to get into one of these hotels to talk to one of the people we'd spoken to at the border, but he was pretty quickly shut down. Hey, how you doing?

[Narrator / Host]

Hey there.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

I'm a freelance journalist. I'm here reporting for my boss, James stout. He's at iHeartMedia. I'm wondering if you're letting media in.

[Narrator / Host]

Here to see the conditions.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Absolutely not.

[Narrator / Host]

Okay. And also we act guys, not to constrict any of this area here. Okay.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

So if you're going to set up, it has to be on this side of the line because we have a lot of traffic.

[Narrator / Host]

Yeah. And it's very dangerous for you. Okay, so like beyond here or past the car? From here, Over. Okay, cool.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

I'll stay out of your way. Thank you, sir. One of the folks we'd met was able to stay in touch via WhatsApp and share the hotel rules with us. They were pretty strict. Migrants are confined to their rooms, they can't have visitors, and they can't even order food delivery from the hotel where they're hosted by Catholic Charities. Migrants need to get to their sponsor in the United States if they have one. If they don't have one, they can be sent just about anywhere. I've heard of East African folks having ended up in Alaska, for example. Once they get to where they're going to be, they check in with U.S. customs and Immigration Services in their new location and they're given a special phone which also tracks their movements. They may have a DNA sample taken in addition to fingerprints. Later, sometimes years later, they attend a court hearing or two to determine their eligibility to stay. I've heard of lawyers charging from $5,000 to $12,000 for these hearings. And non profit legal assistant services are totally overwhelmed at the moment. The system's massively backed up and court dates are being given as far out as 2027 already. They may or may not be able to work during that period. And undertable work is getting harder and harder to find. Even if they do find work on less than minimum wage, it can be very hard to save up $5,000 for a lawyer. And migrants who can't find non profit help are at a significant disadvantage when it comes to their asylum hearings. Again, private security contractors, this time from Allied, were transporting migrants to the hotel and guarding it. Like cbp, the private contractors who guard, transport and incarcerate migrants or rely on the broken immigration system to make money. Unlike CBP, the agents themselves aren't well paid. $19 an hour is the going rate for Allied, not much higher than San Diego's $16.30 minimum wage. But the company itself is huge. It's the third largest private employer in North America after Walmart and Amazon. Allied Guards are at prisons, airports and shopping malls across America. And it's alleged that some are underpaid, insufficiently trained and improperly vetted. The company grosses over $20 billion and its affiliates are frequent political donors. All across this story, you'll see Allied Security, ISS Action Security people, smugglers, Customs and Border Protection contractors who build the wall pieces and contractors who install the wall pieces. General Atomics who sell CBP drones and the Israeli and American companies who sell the surveillance technology to the government. Government all these people make money, but the poorest people in the world are the only ones losing money and sometimes their lives when they cross our southern border. Tomorrow, we'll hear from some of the people who made no money and looked after the migrants and will continue to support them through the asylum process.

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[Narrator / Host]

Hey, it's Ed Helms and welcome back.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

To snafu, my podcast about history's greatest screw ups. On our new season, we're bringing you.

[Narrator / Host]

A new snafu every single episode.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

32 lost nuclear weapons. You're like, wait, stop.

[Narrator / Host]

What?

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Ernie Shackleton sounds like a solid 70s basketball player who still wore knee pads. Yes, it's going to be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of guests. The great Paul Scheer made me feel good. I'm like, oh wow, Angela and Jenna.

[Narrator / Host]

I am so psyched you're here.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

What was that like for you to soft launch into the show? Sorry Jenna, I'll be asking the questions today.

[Narrator / Host]

I forgot whose podcast we were doing. Nick Kroll. I hope this story is good enough.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

To get you to toss that sandwich.

[Narrator / Host]

So let's see how it goes.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Listen to season four of SNAFU with Ed Helms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All I know is what I've been.

[Narrator / Host]

Told and that to have truth is a whole lie.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went.

[Narrator / Host]

Unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story. I'm telling you. We know Quincy killed her.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv. Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

[Narrator / Host]

My name is Maggie Freeling.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be here if the.

[Narrator / Host]

Truth were that easy to find.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y' all said.

[Narrator / Host]

They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

From Lava For Good. This is Graves County, a show about.

[Narrator / Host]

Just how far our legal system will.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Go in order to find someone to blame. America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple.

[Narrator / Host]

Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

And to binge the entire season ad.

[Narrator / Host]

Free, subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

There's a vile sickness in Abbas Town. You must excise it, dig into the deep earth and cut it out. The village is ravaged. Entire families have been consumed.

[Narrator / Host]

You know how waking up from a.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Dream, a familiar place can look completely alien. Get back everyone. And if you see the devil walking.

[Narrator / Host]

Around inside of another man, you must.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Cut out the very heart of him, burn his body and scatter the ashes in the furthest corner of this town.

[Narrator / Host]

As a warning from iHeart podcasts and.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Grim and mild from Aaron Manke.

[Narrator / Host]

This is Havoc Town, a new fiction.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Podcast set in the Bridgewater audio universe.

[Narrator / Host]

Starring Jewel State and Ray Wise.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Listen to Havoc town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The devil walks in Abbost.

[Narrator / Host]

Try and carpool, try and shove into.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Cars as best you can just so.

[Narrator / Host]

That we don't have a mile long line of cars.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

We have trash bags, we have gloves.

[Narrator / Host]

We have things that we're bringing up there. So we have cars that you can get all of that out of once we pull over. We're also setting up a couple pop ups.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Hukumba, California is a tiny town. You've probably never heard of it. It's actually really charming. There's a hot spring and a gorgeous hotel, a few stores selling art, trinkets, that kind of thing. There's a lovely lake fed by the Spring and on this sun baked morning, There are about 50 people outside an old petrol station, nervously pounding bottles of water, applying sunscreen and getting ready to head out to the desert to clear up the ad hoc migrant camp that has held as many as 1500 people out in the open. When Title 42 ended and Border Patrol made no plans to keep them anywhere, it was a diverse bunch of people hidden beneath sun hats. There's an Australian film producer who was at a conference in Orlando and booked a flight over, a grad student painter. The folks who owned the Hukumba Hotel who organised this whole thing, they're friends from the hospitality industry in San Diego. There were students and mums and dads and about the entire population of this tiny desert town. There are also two former international aid workers who own a tower where you can look at the desert, which is actually a much cooler thing than it sounds. And there's also a museum of boulders right next to it. You should probably check them out if you're in the area. I spent the day helping out in Akumba after the refugees, some of them in handcuffs, had been taken by private contractors to be processed by CBP's Office of Field Operations. We met at a petrol station in the middle of town. The space where the pumps should be was filled with tons, and I do mean tons, of bottled water, masks, hand sanitizer and other necess supplies. When I'd arrived the night before, around 10pm, the eerie green and yellow lights reflecting from the roof had lit up the pallets of water like some kind of giant lava lamp. And driving across the desert, the town looked like it was glowing. The town certainly has had a bit of a glow up in the last few years. Three business partners purchased the Hukumba Hot Springs Hotel, a down in the mouth property that had once been a glamorous desert resort. And they've been restoring the place for nearly two years. Inadvertently, they also purchased a lot of land and a few other rundown buildings in the town that were sold as a lot with the hotel. It was in one of these buildings, the old gas station, that they set up a de facto mutual aid hub almost overnight. The hotel's not finished yet and they probably didn't make much progress on it during the week when they were feeding more than a thousand people in the desert. The town's lake, fed by a natural spring, an old bath house used to be attractions. Today the bathhouse's roof has fallen off, but it still makes a pretty cool concert venue. And the whole town offers commanding views of the border wall, which sadly is only a couple of hundred yards from the main street. When I arrived in Hukumba, everything was closed. The mini mart was sold out, the hotel was still being worked on and the hotel kitchen was churning out food for volunteers at the cleanup effort. I asked Marissa, one of the volunteers I met that day, about her first impressions on arriving at the meeting point.

[Narrator / Host]

I was incredibly impressed by what the people of Jacumba and the hotel group of individuals that have organized this. Like I couldn't believe seeing their donation depot in that old car wash, Just how well organized everything was and that they provided so much for the volunteers and just the level of love and compassion and was, yeah, it was an amazing opportunity to be part of. Very humbling.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

I've been there since late the night before after visiting border crossings in California and Arizona. And Jeff, one of the co owners of the hotel, kindly let me pull up my truck in some desert behind his house. Now I'm a person who enjoys sleeping outside and I do it as often as I can. I try and camp at least once a month. But that night I was cold even underneath my down blanket. And I couldn't help but think of how desperate it must have been to spend nearly a week out there with nothing but a mylar space blanket and some thorny bushes to keep you warm. It's certainly not the welcome that one would expect from the richest nation on earth which had three years to repair for the day Title 42 ended. To get a bit of background on the town, I spoke to Natalie.

[Narrator / Host]

So the previous owner bought it at an auction and I don't think that the previous owner didn't realize how much he was getting and he kind of just like neglected a bunch of it, you know. And then he, he was older and so he finally sold off the hotel. He thought he was just buying the hotel, but he buying all the land as well. So they, when they bought the hotel, they acquired all the land and they're actually putting money into it and fixing everything up which is really wonderful.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

The hotel and lake and hot spring really are wonderful. But the scene that had played out there on the 11th of May was anything but. Within a short period of time, more than a thousand people of all ages and nationalities will be held in the open desert and left to fend largely for themselves. I'll let Natalie describe the space they're in.

[Narrator / Host]

There's lots of cactuses everywhere. So there's environmental like watch out where you're walking, it's hot, it's hot. In the day and really cold at night because it's the high desert. There can be gusts of wind that can just take over, get dust in your eyes, your hair. Everything's just, you're just filthy. I don't lack of food. I mean there's no resources. You're in the middle of nowhere.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

I talked to a lot of the volunteers, many of whom had been in the desert for nearly a week. They'd first been made aware of the impending humanitarian crisis late on Thursday night when one of the people working on the renovation of the Hot Springs hotel got a call about it. Within a few hours, the hotel's owners and all their staff were running what became very nearly the only source of food, shelter and water for more than a thousand people trapped and held in the desert by cbp. I spoke to Sam, another volunteer, to get a sensor response. Now Sam is a kind of guy who just looks like he's at home in the desert. His wide brim hat, boots and long sleeved shirt and pants told me he spent plenty of days under the baking sun out here. And his readiness with an isopropyl alcohol spray to disinfect people's boots after walking in an area that was likely covered in human shit told me he'd been around one or two situations like this in the past. I spent a great deal of my life as a second career working in.

[Narrator / Host]

Developmental relief logistics in Southeast Asia, mainly.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Working with large organizations, for example World.

[Narrator / Host]

Food Program, Doctors Without Borders, chill, unicef.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Many, many different place things. In the context of that kind of experience, it's easy to understand why people come to the United States. But I asked Sam to put the situation here into perspective. For me, it's understandable that folks came to the U.S. but why to a tiny desert town of 500 people? These people were radically unprepared for what they were going to go through because.

[Narrator / Host]

They were sold a bill of goods.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

By coyotes on the other side about what was going to happen to them, you understand? So they had really no idea what they were getting into at all. And so there was not anything in the way of life threatening situations for any of those people in any meaningful way. A great deal of discomfort. It could have turned very badly if.

[Narrator / Host]

These people here had not stepped up because the Border patrol was completely overwhelmed.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Yeah. And so there was never that bad of a situation here compared to what I have seen in other places in the past. As Sam pointed out, the migrants were now gone, but we were still surrounded by tons of supplies. But at the time there was no way of knowing the scope or scale of the need. And people reacted as best they could.

[Narrator / Host]

Actually it was overkill.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

But you had no way of knowing at the time. There's just no way to know. How do you know ahead of time? You always ask for as much as you can get because why would you not? I mean, you never know. You don't know how many children with.

[Narrator / Host]

Babies are on the other side of.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

That wall right now. Might be zero, might be 500. You have no idea. Before anyone knew how or if this was going to end or really what even was going on, dozens of people across the county decided to help. One of them was Katie. Here she is describing some of the volunteers she worked alongside.

[Narrator / Host]

There was a hodgepodge of people as volunteers and leading it were some of the owners of a hotel out there and that was the main organizers. But who showed up were people from the town, people that I knew and recognized. There was some really Devout like there 24 hours a day. And then there were some coming in and out. But I met people from all over the county and most of them answered the call call through Instagram of the hotel.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

All those volunteers called their friends who called their friends who gradually coordinated a response. Natalie first became aware of this as many volunteers did through an Instagram post by Melissa, another of the three co owners of the Kumba Hotel. On Thursday night, just as Title 42 was ending, Natalie saw the post and decided to help. At first she wanted to leave right then at 1am as soon as she'd seen the post. But after consulting her family, she decided to make her own post asking for people to bring supplies that were needed. Soon she was overwhelmed by the response.

[Narrator / Host]

Yeah, I mean immediately, even at one in the morning I was getting messages because I posted it. That's when I posted the story. I immediately got messages from friends saying, I'll bring a blanket over. What's your address? Yeah, everyone just kind of rallied and started bringing supplies over, collecting money as well. Some friends started collecting money and bought stuff and brought loads of food and things to my house.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Her husband ferried the supplies to Hakumba where they were joined by donations from all over the county in the old petrol station. Like Natalie, Katie also saw a post and immediately felt compelled to help. She called a friend and some members of her family and set about raising funds and buying supplies.

[Narrator / Host]

So I met my friend at a cafe and in that, in the meantime, and I don't know how much of this is really important, this is great, just keep going. So in the meantime, I text my mother and my two sisters who live on the east coast and just. It was late at night for them and I just said, I. I would love for you to send prayers because that's something that I believe in. I believe in prayer or intention and thought reality. So. And some of it was just because I felt so touched, like praying for the community that I love too. And the next thing I know, like, my Venmo was blowing up and there was a thousand dollars in my Venmo sent from my family members. And so by the time my friend arrived, we were like, let's go. And we filled our car with. Amazingly, we found like organic. There's grocery outlet it, right. So we found organic soup for, you know, a dollar something a can and. And we spent few hundred dollars. And the next morning we met early and we stopped in Elcone on the way and we spent all the rest on. We went to three or four thrift stores and bought every blanket and hat and baby carrier because we have both focused on motherhood in our careers.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

I asked the people I spoke to about a week later how the experience had impacted them.

[Narrator / Host]

It was overwhelming just the. The way the community really came around and supported the people in Jacumba that were trying to help. You know, after we finished cleaning up, when we're back at the gas station, the Amazon driver was delivering, I think he delivered 350 boxes. And so we had to open them up and sort them. And there was so much food, I think that it was insane amount of food and it was awesome. It was really cool just to see how many people stepped up and donated.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Unlike some of the people I saw in San Ysidro. Natalie, Katie, Sam and Marissa are not part of an NGO or a mutual aid collective. They're just people who wanted to help. And that describes most of the people in Jacumba, although some of them did have previous and regular volunteer experience with excellent groups like Border Kindness. I asked Katie to reflect on the mutual aid approach and the absence of massive multimillion dollar organizations. Yeah, the Red Cross wasn't there, right?

[Narrator / Host]

No, they weren't there. We were told that the Red Cross couldn't come unless Border Patrol called. And Border Patrol told us that they weren't allowed to call the Red Cross.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

It's a pretty standard. The one institution that did show support to people in Hukumba was one that you might not expect, given the support for this cruel immigration policy by almost all the Democrats in D.C. but things are different when you can see the results of these policies with your own eyes. Perhaps that's why I didn't see a single elected official in my entire week at the border. But one person I missed, but who everyone mentioned was a lady who worked for California Senator Steve Padilla. I won't name her as I don't have her permission, but hopefully one day soon we'll be able to interview her. I'll let Katie describe the role this woman played.

[Narrator / Host]

There was someone from Steve Padilla's team and that's the woman I rode with and she was incredible. Her brother in law is the chef at the hotel. So I think, I mean she might have came anyway, but she came faster and there was true connection and she stood up to the border patrol and said, you know, said what allowed were here on behalf of this senator. So I mean I saw some like head to head, like arguments about our right to be there. And most of us didn't weren't paying attention to that. We were paying attention to the people that we were, you know, around. And no one that was out there what didn't believe that we should be out there and that more help should be out there.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Sadly, part of that familiarity with the system this woman brought to the team also meant a familiarity with the cruel and arbitrary nature of it. Katie says that they had to organize for that as well.

[Narrator / Host]

So my friend and I, we ended up riding in her truck so in Steve Padilla's Senator Padilla's assistance truck. So we had the opportunity to ask some questions that probably everyone out there wanted to know. Including the migrants.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Yeah.

[Narrator / Host]

And it was like what will happen and what's the process from here and how do you know that these people are being tended to? And I literally heard her on the phone getting as many bodies on the ground to start going to those centers where they're being taken to make sure that they were, that, that we would follow them through the entire process as best possible, monitoring their well, well care for, that they were well careful, cared for as well cared for as possible in a system, in a process like that. Yeah. But she literally said though they're going to be bust off and put in cages and that they would do their best to make sure that the, that no one was split up up and that everyone was fed, showered and they weren't allowed to bring anything with them. So a lot of the cleanup was all of the things that everyone donated that had to be left behind, including some of the, the stuffed animals.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

For all the volunteers I spoke to, the chance to be of service was Empowering. Here's Natalie discussing that.

[Narrator / Host]

Yeah, I mean, well, like in so many times you like, feel overwhelmed with like so much suffering in this world and like, what can one person do, you know? And so it did feel good that to actually see an immediate impact, like I'm doing this and this is the result. Because sometimes you can just get discouraged, you know, like, we're just one person. What can we really do and can we really make an impact? And just seeing that and being able to see directly how that one person can impact, you know, can rally like the scene how my friends came together, you know, went shopping, bought things, gathered money, collected money. You know, my really good friend Sam, she went to her local bar after, after she collected a bunch of money, went and dropped stuff, supplies off at my house. She was just down at her local bar and just chatting with them and like, oh, what'd you do today? And so she told them, oh, I collected money and I bought supplies. And then the people. She ended up collecting about 200 more dollars at the bar from people hearing her story. And so then the next day she went and bought more supplies and she actually ended up driving them out herself. She ended up doing like three drips just from her own talking to people and collecting. So just like the little impact that, you know, everyone just kind of coming together and making a difference.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

You need medicine?

[Narrator / Host]

Line up right here if you need medicine. Right?

[Interviewer / Reporter]

San Ysidro. A pretty diverse range of San Diegans came to help on the first night. I personally left at about one in the morning after spending almost two hours trying to leave, but needing to get charged phones back to their owners by loudly in Spanish, then French, then English describing the backgrounds on the phone or the color of their case. It wasn't a great system. And by the weekend, Kaber and others had seen that more help and organization was needed and they decided to plan a response. Here's Kaber describing how they prepared for that.

[Narrator / Host]

Yeah, yeah, we met. We met up at a Target near my area because I had already thought that maybe I'll just grab some. I was paying attention to people I knew who were doing aid and what's supplies they were saying was needed. The particular store near me has like a wall of travel size, like these giant tubs where you can basically just scoop out 100 deodorant cans and toothpaste and things like that.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Ka met up with some other members of a local mutual aid group. I'll make sure to include donation links for all the groups I've mentioned at the end of this series. So please make sure to listen right through to the end.

[Narrator / Host]

And he had just received a bunch of donations through Mutually Network. So we cleaned out even more of the travel size. I got some tooth hygiene kits and deodorant and a bunch of crayons and papers, because the kids that are between the walls don't really have much to do, unfortunately. So those were. Those went really fast. And so we got a whole bunch of bags of all those kinds of supplies, and then we drove down to the border from there.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

By the time they arrived, various organizations had organized areas along the wall for different kinds of aid to be passed through. Everything from clothes to food to medical supplies and toilet paper was piled up, given out.

[Narrator / Host]

Organize the toilet paper, food, everything like that. And people would just come up to the wall and if their family needed something, they would just kind of point to it or ask us if we were able to, you know, if there was a common language there. So, yeah, we just kind of, you know, gave things as people needed them. I know that I helped give out some of the crayons and pads of paper, and those were a big hit. Tons of kids all came running over from the whole. All the parts of the camp when they heard that there was. There were toys being given out. So that was. It was. It was heartbreaking. But it was also, you know, it made me smile, too. Seeing them smile made me smile.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Because of the need to use CBP1 and, of course, the need to stay in touch with families back home, there was a constant and overwhelming demand for phone charging. News reporters took phones back to charge in their cars. Some people bought charge bricks and power strips, and mutual aid groups wrote names on the back of the phones using painter's tape and Sharpies so they wouldn't get separated from their owners. By the second day, it was a better system, but on the first day, it was chaos. I'll let Kaber, who spent a whole day charging phones, describe the system that volunteers came up with to mitigate that chaos a little bit.

[Narrator / Host]

And obviously, they couldn't charge their phones if they're just in this kind of desert gap between these walls that doesn't have any kind of amenities or anything. So we had a system where they would pass a phone through and we would put a piece of tape on it with their name and give them a piece of tape with their name, the same name. And then they would give us. If they came back a couple hours later, they give us a tape back, and we'd match the names and Put them in the phone and that was. It worked well enough. I mean, it was still extraordinarily chaotic process. I mean, we always had at least 100 phones on our Shinicam wallet any given time. And some people had, you know, some people had chargers, some people didn't. Some people had Android or Samsung or old iPhones and some people had wall adapters and some people didn't have the wall AC adapters. So we kind of had to. Every phone that came through was we had to find a way to get it, you know, Daisy chained into the set of generators that we had, which was, do we have enough power strips? Do we have the right cables? And do we have space on those cables? And I think it was, it was a bit of a puzzle the whole time. The only part of it that really overwhelmed me was we did overload. Someone brought a bunch of USB C power strips and we blew out one of them. And so there was now eight phones attached to it that I had to find new spaces for. And I was just like. That was the only point where I was just. I was just frustrated by this whole situation. In addition to the fact that the phones that were plugged into that strip had been charging for who knows how long since that thing short circuited or.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Whatever happened to was chaos, but it was a good natured chaos. Over the several days that migrants were detained in the open with no shelter and inadequate sanitation. Just about two miles from the discount mall where you can buy cheap Ralph Lauren shirts if that's your jam, people showed up in ever increasing numbers. The American Friends Service Committee helped organize volunteers into groups to distribute food, package up wet wipes, snacks and medicines, give out tarps, and do just about anything else that they could or anything else that they could fit into Ziploc bags that could be passed through gaps in the wall. At least people who had been immigrants themselves or who were the children of immigrants were notably numerous. Among the volunteers I spoke to one of them. My name is lan Chai. I'm part of Asian Solidarity Collective grassroots.

[Narrator / Host]

Organization here in San Diego.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

I've been, I've been coming over here since yesterday. I came here around 5, 6 yesterday and then I came back through here this morning and been here since I got home at 12 last night and woke up, dropped my kid off and came right back with more supplies. I've been reaching out to family, friends and community to help donate supplies and things like that, food, whatever, whatever they may have. And I pretty much been driving around city and collecting from folks that can't make it so I could bring it down here myself. So that's what I've been doing. Lang Chai explained to me why it was so important to show up my community. I'm pretty sure they're sympathetic to this because I'm coming from. I'm a first generation Cambodian American here in the US and when my parents and my family fled their country, country, they went through this as well. So somebody somewhere came and provided the supports, provided the aid, the donations for them to be able to make it to America, to cross over and able.

[Narrator / Host]

To provide out here for me growing.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Up out here, you know, so it's just, I just sympathize with it, with the whole thing. I mean, everybody should feel the same way because somewhere down the line our families went through similar situations. If you're not indigenous, then your family somewhere down the history went through the same thing. So, you know, everybody should have a heart for this and be able to come down here and donate or donate their time or supplies, whatever the case may be, you know, come out and help. He also explained why he feels it's important to encourage empathy for refugees. Well, you have to keep in mind there's families out here. There's young children, there's babies. I mean, it takes a lot for a mother to pick up her infant child and to leave where she's coming from. So that just says a lot about what's going on, where she's coming from, for her to trek and to go through this, to sit out here in the cold and stuff. Because if she would rather endure this and take the risk and the chances, that means where she's coming from is not as, you know, she's willing to take that risk. Later that night, I saw an Afghan family come to help the other Afghan families. Their kids talked to other Afghan kids separated by the border wall. They passed crayons through the wall and coloring books and their little daughter asked her dad if she could give her watch to the Afghan girl being held in the camp. Her dad said, of course, I don't record or photograph people's children, certainly not without asking. And I wasn't about to interrupt them, but it was a very sweet moment. The father of the family had worked in the Army Corps of Engineers. He'd been to the border before to build this section of the wall. I didn't really need to ask him how it felt to see folks stuck behind it. But it said a lot that he and his family had taken the time to drive down, buy bags of supplies and Then come face to face with the people who needed them and hand them out. Like dozens of other folks, they tried to pass whatever they could through little gaps in the wall to make someone's day a little bit brighter. Another volunteer who we heard from yesterday came from a local group called Parna. Hermira had been at the wall since 5 in the morning and it was getting on for 5pm when we spoke. I normally ask people what they ate for breakfast just to tune in the volume levels on my recorder a bit. But I'm going to include it this time just so you can see how long her day had been and how hard she'd been working.

[Narrator / Host]

Okay, what do you want me to say? Is that good?

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Tell me what you have for breakfast.

[Narrator / Host]

I don't remember anymore. French toast Fresh shows My name is Hamayra Yousife and I'm with the Partnership for the Advancement of New Americans. Panna or an organization in San Diego that fights for the full inclusion of refugees and those who come from refugee producing countries.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

We spoke about the emergency that had kept her here all day.

[Narrator / Host]

So in terms of this morning, I mean, I was, I was, you know, very concerned because there was an asylum seeker who had an emergency and was rushed out of this place where now, like for example, where we are at right now is people who are being detained in the most inhumane way possible. This is going against CBP's own protocols and policies as to how they're being detained with no, they're not giving them food, they're not giving them bathrooms, they're not giving them basic, basic things that they need to survive. And so that's why the community is out here today to do that.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Sadly, not everyone who showed up at the makeshift detention facility was showing up in solidarity. Local anti migrant activist and blogger Roger Ogden showed up. Now, Ogden might be familiar to some listeners due to his attempts to host what he called a patriot picnic and his advocacy for the removal of the historic Camaros in Chicano Park. Ogden organized gatherings in the park in 2017 and 2018 and they resulted in a huge and overwhelming community response to defend the park. And this time, Ogden decided to keep to himself. But Natalie ran into some people who weren't quite as shy about their opinions.

[Narrator / Host]

You know, a lot of the people in the Hukambo community are, you know, lower income. You know, they are struggling in their own struggle on their in. So I know, you know, maybe I don't know, like for those people, I.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Don'T know, like.

[Narrator / Host]

It'S hard. I don't know, I mean, towards the end, like when I was walking in my car, this man, this man in a car, like, pulled up and he's like, excuse me, what's going on over there? And I was like, oh, we're gathering, you know, supplies for the asylum seekers. And then I, you know, like, I, if you're from here, you kind of, if you're in Jacumba, you kind of already knew what was going on. And so him asking that me, that I was kind of like. And then he just started laying into, I've had illegals, you know, have broken into my house a few times. Why are you supporting illegals? And I'm like, we're trying to let, like, make sure that people don't die. And he just kept going off on me. And so he, you know, his, the.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Whole.

[Narrator / Host]

Everything, all the talking points that people have about not allowing people to come seek asylum here. And so I just walked away.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Marissa didn't run into the same kind of vocal opposition, but she said in her conversations and attempts to process everything she'd seen, she ran into some of the sort of knee jerk responses that people can only really make about immigration when they haven't looked the cruelty that they're advocating for in the face.

[Narrator / Host]

It took me a little while to kind of work through just how I felt about it on an emotional, maybe spiritual level. I, you know, I spoke with family and friends about it, about my experience, and it's difficult to, I found it difficult to explain my experience experience because I don't know that somebody can really truly understand that unless they've actually been out there and done it themselves. Because the arguments or their kind of debate, so to speak, what they would come back at me with when I was sharing, that is. But we don't have enough food or housing to be able to support that many people coming in. And I'm like, but we just had so many people and so much money put out there to help in a very short amount of time. Look how many donations were donated. How much money was contributed in a short amount of time from not that many people. I'm like, obviously we do have the money, obviously we do have the food. So where's the, where's the breakdown? Like, is it our system that just doesn't allow for that to happen? I don't know. And that's where, like, I don't, I don't understand it enough, but I feel like it just made me realize that I don't know that anybody that I spoke to afterward really understands it enough either because their arguments or their defense and what they tried to share on the opposite side of the me going out there and supporting just felt like it was just something to say, you know, and like what they, what they hear from the general media out there and they, they also don't really, they can't quite grasp it. So they're just kind of throwing something out there, I guess is what it, what it felt like.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

KABA also ran into some less than charitable San Diegans this time down in San Ysidro.

[Narrator / Host]

Yeah, so I guess the first part is why they might have, or how they might have found us there, which is there's a local news organization in San Diego called KOSI which is kind of, I would describe as a local equivalent of something like One American News, which is really unfortunate because we already have One American News here. But they are pretty well known for kind of a lot of like misinformation, kind of scaremongering about and house people, immigrants, vaccines and all that sort of sort of thing, but with kind of a local news sort of aesthetic to it. And they were, as far as I could tell, they were really the only identifiable media that were there throughout the day. I read articles eventually that made me realize there were other reporters there, but they weren't identifying themselves the way that he was. I was, but they had said this one cameraman just shooting B roll I guess, and he was walking to all the different parts of the wall and like all the different sort of stations for aid and like trying to like really trying to get as many faces as possible. You can kind of tell that that's like what he was doing. Everyone who I was around, I was, I was kind of, you know, oriented mostly with kind of the like, sort of like anarchist mutual aid people and, and you know, when they saw the KYC truck they were like, okay, I'm going to stay a mask on, you know, everyone. I still had N. So I wore that and I had a slightly identifying logo on my sweatshirt which I taped over so that image wouldn't show up.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Now KUSI have drifted further and further right since 2020, along with their relatively minuscule viewership. These days they engage in fake news, culture war stuff like repeating the recent false accusations that Target was making tuckable swimming costumes for kids or labeling everyone in the asylum process illegal immigrants. It's sadly pretty standard for right wing news organizations. Now KBER thinks that some of the people who saw footage on KUSI or perhaps found the location posted on Ogden's blog came down to the border, like, several hours later.

[Narrator / Host]

That's, like, when we started to see people, you know, kind of coming by and we could tell that they weren't volunteers because, like, when people play people, people who weren't even necessarily volunteering would drive by and say, like, hey, I just remote to them, I brought a case of water and. And they bring up the water and then they drive away. But the people who are doing. Who are like, here, who I think, you know, kind of do some kind of intimidation where, you know, they wouldn't approach directly. They would just kind of get out of their exceptionally large SUVs and. And just kind of just kind of watch and they would kind of, you know, get a little bit closer at a time and then, you know, a little bit closer and kind of whisper to each other and, you know, pointed things and, you know, it's just kind of like they were just watching and, you know, they got close enough that I could read their shirts. And the shirts had a slogan that's associated with Christian nationalism slogan. So there's this whole family. It's kind of. Kind of sad that the kids were wearing shirts, too. And so I kind of. Yeah, I figured out that that's what was going on. And I never talked to them. I didn't approach them, but I stood when I was seeing them get closer and closer. I kind of positioned myself in between the rest of the volunteers and. And this group and just kind of, you know, didn't even really stare at them, just kind of looked at them and just made it clear with my body language that I, like, I knew what they were doing. Like, they weren't, you know, they weren't doing any kind of secret agent thing or whatever. Like, they were being really, really obvious. And. And I just, you know, stood and. And positioned myself in a way that indicated that, you know, I know what you're doing, and you're not going to get close. You're not going to interfere with, you know, what we're doing here. You're not going to come talk to anyone or troll anyone or, like, whatever you want to do. And eventually, one of the people who is either volunteer or work for, like, One of the NGOs could definitely tell there was something going on. So she went over and had a conversation with them that I couldn't hear. And eventually they decided to leave.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

And.

[Narrator / Host]

And I think she was just kind of trying to be diplomatic, but just sort of like, ask them if they wanted to help. And if they don't want to help, then you know, go be somewhere else, I suppose. And. And. And it was. I mean, the sort of. One amusing part, if you call it that, was that they apparently complained to this person about me because they said that I had been watching them and I was racially profiling them because they were white. And I realize now that this is a anonymous interview because for the listeners, I am very, very white myself.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

I think it's important when we discuss volunteering to honor how hard this kind of experience can be on people. Obviously, the trauma associated with seeing people brutalized by the state and capital is not the same as being brutalized by state and capital yourself, but that doesn't mean it's easy. I asked Natalie to reflect a little on children's toys we found in the shelter when we were cleaning up the camp.

[Narrator / Host]

Like, as a mom, like, I have my own children, and it just really. It was emotional. It's like. It's just like I'm like, who's.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Who.

[Narrator / Host]

What child was playing with this, you know, here in this space? And, you know that no child should be ever in, you know, an encampment like that or a. It just. No one should be living outside. No one should be doing that. But also, it's like kind of like the humanity in a way like that, you know, even a child's going to play wherever child's going to play. And like that little toy of little. Hopefully it brought that kid some joy in that moment. You know, if it was their little piece of home or someone gave it to him or what, you know, it was. Yeah, the reality, it was like. It was like a person, you know, like a little artifact of someone who was actually there, you know, like, it was a little more tangible than, you know, a sock. You know, that's not. That's not. I'm not thinking, oh, who wore that sock? But think of who. Who. Who was playing with that joy, you know, Was it a little boy? A little girl? How old were they? Did they bring it home? Are they missing it? When they said. And I saw they have. That she needed people to clean up, it was like, okay. I took a day off of work and went out there and just felt. It's overwhelming almost. I mean, just one day of me working out there was really emotional. I can't imagine how, you know, Melissa and all the people that were on the ground just dealing with it, and I know they're struggling a little bit and just processing it all has been really. It's hard, you know, really hard. It's just how privileged we Are no one leaves our country because they want to. They leave because they have to. They feel like they have to. And I mean just respecting and honoring and understanding the privilege that you're in and not taking it for granted because it's very easy to.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Both Katie and Marissa said they don't really identify as political and that they wanted to be there as people. Sometimes, often politics can become a complicated game of numbers and statistics. But it's important to remember that what this is really about is organizing in such a way that we can take care of one another and that the most important politics of all is the politics of feeding hungry people and maybe bringing a sad child or stuffed animal. Here's Katie talking about the community response.

[Narrator / Host]

I think I'm a really compassionate person and I'm not very political in the sense that, like, I don't really participate. My life and my community's life is solution oriented. So I saw like that on a large scale, the, like, when people come together, we create solutions. When. And you don't wait for someone like the government to show up and fix it because then people will die. You know, I mean, that's the reality is if that community didn't activate, there would have been a lot of dead people in the desert.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Katie shared with me that she'd been having a difficult time feeling guilty for not having the language skills to do more and questing her own worthiness to be there helping. But in the end, she said she felt that what she'd done was right and important. I'll leave you with her thoughts and tomorrow I'll be back to talk about the people who put everyone in this situation in the first place. The Department of Homeland Security.

[Narrator / Host]

I think an important thing is, like, so many times we hear about things and we say, isn't that awful? And we kind of shut down because we don't feel empowered or we don't know how to help. And literally a smile makes a difference. A feeling of like, I see you and you belong on this planet makes a difference. And, you know, little kids packing up canned goods and fruit snacks for other little kids, they didn't see those kids. But when the adult said, they're going to be so happy to get that package, they felt like they made a difference and those little girls are going to grow up and not be afraid to step up and make a difference. I think a lot of people think like they can't do enough so they don't do anything. And if we all just do a little bit or what you can, then I think we would see a very large impact. Hakumba is a town of 500 and they just fed thousands, housed thousands, clothed thousands, hugged and welcomed thousands of human beings. And those people in that town don't have much excess and they made a difference. And I was proud to be a part of that community in the way that I'm on the fringe of it, and it made me want to be even more a part of it. My feelings and intuition about that town were confirmed by watching the simplest action make an incredible impact on real life lives and real people. And that this isn't demographics, it's real. Real bodies that have beating hearts and breathe and we all share the same air in the same water and we're all connected. And when you make one little drip in the bucket, it actually does make a difference. And I think that stops us sometimes when we think what we have isn't enough to give. But when someone has nothing, what you have is more than what they can imagine. Life's messy.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

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[Interviewer / Reporter]

Hey, it's Ed Helms.

[Narrator / Host]

And welcome back to snafu, my podcast.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

About history's greatest screw ups. On our new season, we're bringing you.

[Narrator / Host]

A new snafu every single episode.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

32 lost nuclear weapons. You're like, wait, stop.

[Narrator / Host]

What?

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Ernie Shackleton sounds like a solid 70s basketball player who still wore knee pads. Yes, it's gonna be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of guests. The great Paul Scheer made me feel good. I'm like, oh, wow.

[Narrator / Host]

Angela and Jenna, I am so psyched you're here.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

What was that like for you to soft launch into the show? Sorry, Jenna, I'll be asking the questions today.

[Narrator / Host]

I forgot whose podcast we were doing. Nick Kroll I hope this story is.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Good enough to get you to toss that sandwich.

[Narrator / Host]

So let's see how it goes.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Listen to season four of SNAFU with Ed Helms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. All I know is what I've been.

[Narrator / Host]

Told and that's a half truth is a whole lie.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went.

[Narrator / Host]

Unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story. I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv. Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

[Narrator / Host]

My name is Maggie Freeling.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be here if the.

[Narrator / Host]

Truth were that easy to find.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y' all said.

[Narrator / Host]

They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

From Lava For Good. This is Graves County, a show about.

[Narrator / Host]

Just how far our legal system will.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Go in order to find someone to blame. America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns. Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley daily feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava For Good plus on.

[Narrator / Host]

Apple Podcasts.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

There's a vile sickness in Amstown. You must excise it, dig into the deep earth and cut it out. The village is ravaged. Entire families have been consumed.

[Narrator / Host]

You know how waking up from a.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Dream, a familiar place can look completely alien? Get back everyone, and if you see.

[Narrator / Host]

The devil walking around inside of another.

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Man, you must cut out the very heart of him, burn his body and scrap. Scatter the ashes in the furthest corner of this town. As a warning from iHeart podcasts and grim and mild from Aaron Manke.

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This is Havoc Town, a new fiction.

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Podcast set in the Bridgewater Audio universe.

[Narrator / Host]

Starring Jewel State and Ray Wise.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Listen to Havoc town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The Devil Walks in Abbas T Town the history of the border and its enforcement begins in 1492 with the colonization of what would become known as the Americas. It goes through the 1842 Mexican American War and the sale of indigenous people's lands without their knowledge or consent in the 1853 Gadsden Purchase, and of course, through the 1882 Chinese Exclusion act and numerous other explicit attempts to prevent non white people from moving to the usa. From there it weaves its way through the Mexican Revolution and the First World War's Gemma proposal to ally with Mexico to reclaim those territories it had lost in the decades before then. The Border Patrol story itself begins in May 1924, and in the 99 years since, it has encompassed everything from David Duke to 911 in its journey to becoming the biggest and least accountable law enforcement agency in the federal government. People from the colonial periphery have always migrated to the metropole. It's why a man called Fat Les singing a song about vindaloo is basically my country's second national anthem. And why every four years France accepts black French men onto its football team before it returns to vilifying them in other forms of discourse. Migration to the United States is no different. Climate change and US imperialism have destabilised impoverished nations from the Americas to Afghanistan and driven people to the US border looking for a better life. What's distinct about the US is how obsessed it has become with keeping these people out and enforcing the longest land borders in the world. But the US border is much bigger than the land boundary between the USA and Mexico to the south and Canada to the north. If you're listening to this in the United States, the chances are that you live in the border enforcement zone. This swath of territory outside the Constitution has been established since the Immigration and Nationality act of 1952 established that a reasonable distance of the border would extend 100 air miles around the outline of the country. Two thirds of the US's population live within this zone. Washington, DC, San Francisco, Chicago, New Orleans and Boston are all within it. And that means that CBP agents can search vehicles and vessels to look for property that's in the country. Without the right documents, they can board public transportation or set up interior checkpoints and stop, interrogate and search citizens and non citizens without the need for a warrant. Within 25 miles of the border. They can enter your property provided it's not a domicile. The Fourth Amendment, part of a foundational Bill of Rights the US likes to tout as what makes it different from the rest of the world doesn't apply when you're near the border. An all encompassing history of the border and its enforcement is beyond the scope of this podcast. Even a history of the Southwest border could take up a whole bookshelf, but we will try and skim the high points here. Let's start with the Gadsden Purchase, when a party of military surveyors first bumped into Tohon Od and elders as they attempted to draw a line dividing Tohono O' O'TUM people from Tohono O' O' O'am people. The southern border is no more obvious today than it was then, and of course to the autumn. It was and remains an aberration that divides them from much of their ancestral and current homelands. It has over the years seen violent enforcement on members of the nation and a growing encroachment of the Border Patrol into today's Tohono Ottom Reservation, which is the second largest in the usa. It only represents a fraction of the tribe's historical homeland. These surveyors were in the process of finalizing most of the California and Arizona border, a border I drove most of in the days after Title 42. The southern border, as it looks now, was largely shaped by the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, in which Mexico lost 55% of its territory, including all of what is today California, Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Nevada, and parts of what is today Colorado, Wyoming, Kansas and Oklahoma. The Gadsden Purchase of 1853 added more of southern Arizona and New Mexico. The specific border in San Ysidro was drawn so that San Diego Bay would fall to the north of the line. The border in Acumba seems more arbitrary, a straight line in the desert that runs into a pile of rocks. Of course, long before the border divided San Ysidro from Tijuana, this was Kumeya land, and despite the border, it still is. The name Tijuana derives from Tijuana, which means by the sea in Kumeyaay. Despite this, the Kumeyaay and many other indigenous peoples were ignored when the border crossed them, and it's becoming harder and harder for them to cross it. In parts of the desert, it can be pretty hard to see the border at all in 2020. While out with a group of Kumeyaay people who are in ceremony to honor their ancestors, whose burial sites have been and continue to be desecrated by border wall construction, I had to be wary of stepping over it to better frame my shots. The emergency declaration Donald Trump made allowed war construction to sidestep legislation in place to protect archaeological and sacred sites, but it didn't allow me to sidestep into Mexico to get a better shot. Luckily, bortac, a team of armed border patrol agents who you might remember from Portland in 2020, provided a guy dressed like he was in the battle of Fallujah to help me. I would say the border is a line in the sand, but at the time, there wasn't a line that was visible at all. In Valley of the Moon, a few miles east of where that bortak patrol guard shouted at people for stepping Too close in 2020, the border wall is about waist high, rusty, and essentially comprised of a single strand of barbed wire. In Hukumba, the 30 foot Trump wall pushes right up to a boulder pile and then stops. The logic, as much as there can be any Logic in spending $25 million a mile to desecrate sacred spaces and defile the landscape, is that people will be deterred from crossing by the harsh landscape. Brutally hot days and brutally cold nights. This logic, of course, fails to consider not just where people are going, but why they're leaving the places they've come from. Risking one's life crossing the border makes sense only when one considers the danger that many people in places around the world face every day. It hasn't always been this way. For your reference, here are Reagan and Bush talking about migration in 1980. I'm going to ask you what you would do about Cuba. But now, now we're going to have some, some questions from the audience. Yes, my name is David Grossberg and I'd like to know, do you think the children of illegal aliens should be allowed to attend Texas public schools free, or do you think that their parents should pay for their education? Who are you addressing that to? I think you're first in this. He was looking right at you.

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I said he was.

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Look, I'd like to see something done about the illegal alien problem that would.

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Be so sensitive and, and so understanding.

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About labor needs and human needs that that problem wouldn't come up. But today, if those people are here, I would reluctantly say, I think they would, they would get whatever it is that they're, you know, what the society is giving to their neighbors. But it has. The problem has to be solved. The problem has to be solved because with as we have kind of made illegal some kinds of labor that I'd like to see legal, we're doing two things. We're creating a whole society of really honorable, decent, family loving people that are in violation of the law. And secondly, we're exacerbating relations with Mexico. The answer to your question is much more fundamental than whether they attend Houston schools. It seems to me I don't want to see a whole. If they're living here, I don't want to see a whole.

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Dang, it's six and eight year old.

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Kids being made, you know, one totally uneducated and made to feel that they're living with outside the law. Let's address ourselves to the fundamentals.

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These are good people, strong people. Part of my family is a Mexican.

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Can I add to that? I think the time has come that the United States and our neighbors, particularly our neighbor to the south, should have a better understanding, understanding and a better relationship than we've ever had. And I think that we haven't been.

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Sensitive enough to our size and our power.

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They have a problem of 40 to 50% unemployment. Now. This cannot continue without the possibility arising with regard to that other country that we talked about of Cuba and what it is stirring up of the possibility of trouble below the border. And we could have a very hostile and strange neighbor on our border. Rather than making them or talking about putting up a fence, why don't we work out some recognition of our mutual problems, make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit. And then while they're working and earning here, they pay taxes here. And when they go on to go back, they can go back and they can cross and open the border both ways by understanding their problems. The modern era of border enforcement began. As far as we can pinpoint, a single date was Silvestre Reyes, the then sector chief of the border patrol in McAllen, Texas, and his Operation hold the Line. The community around Macallan had got tired of Border Patrol snooping around businesses and even schools in the Rio Grande Valley. And instead Reyes deployed his agents forward in a sort of human fence along the Rio Grande. Reyes would later become the chief of the El Paso sector and a Democratic congressman. He lost his seat to Beto O' Rourke in 2013, but this strategy would long outlive his career with Border Patrol. The following year, on September 17, 1994, U.S. attorney General Janet Reno announced the start of Operation Gatekeeper. The first phase of the operation focused on the first five miles of the western border, including the place where I recorded all those interviews you heard earlier this week. According to a piece written a quarter of a century later in the LA Times, the strategy was to deter migrants from illegally crossing in the first place, and for those who remained undeterred, to encourage them to cross in more isolated wilderness areas to the east, where they could be more easily captured. There were already fences in 1994. First a chain link fence and then one made of helicopter landing mats left over from Vietnam that had horizontal struts that closely resembled and were used as a ladder. Anti migrant rhetoric was already there, too. California Governor Pete Wilson became an outspoken advocate for Prop 187, a ballot measure that cut off state services like healthcare and education to undocumented people. Here's a clip of Wilson's reelection ad.

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They keep coming.

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Two million illegal immigrants in California. The federal government won't stop them at the border, yet requires us to pay billions to take care of them. Governor Peters, Pete Wilson sent the National Guard to help the Border Patrol. But that's not all. For Californians who work hard, pay taxes.

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And obey the laws.

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I'm suing to force the federal government to control the border and I'm working to deny state services to illegal immigrants. Enough is enough. Governor Pete Wilson. Under the operation, a much higher number of agents were deployed to the border. Apprehensions increased, and with them, so did funding for border enforcement. It was around this time that the narrative around the border began to change. It was also around this time, a few months earlier, in fact, that the U.S. mexico and Canada entered into the North American Free Trade Agreement, which made it easier than ever for capital to move across the border and take advantage of lower wages in Mexico. To learn a little bit more about Operation Gatekeeper, I spoke to one of the agents who was tasked with executing it.

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My name is Jen Budd and I'm a former senior patrol agent with the United States Border Patrol. I was a senior intelligence agent as well at San Diego Sector headquarters.

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Jenna since left the Border Patrol, but she realized that the impact of Operation Gatekeeper on migrants was anything but positive.

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Yeah, Operation gatekeeper started in 1994, in October of 1994. And I got to Campo in November of 1995. And so right afterwards, and the fence was just getting to Tecate when I got there. So most of my class, I think we had, I don't know, 40 people graduate or something. Most of them went down to Imperial beach and they had a wall there. And so that was the idea, is to fill the San Diego City area with as many agents and weapons and all this. And then that would push the traffic further out to the mountains, making it more difficult for them to cross. And some of them will get injured.

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And we knew some of them would die.

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So it was intentional. The death and the injuries, according to management, would deter future crossings. But of course, that's not the case.

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Alan Burson, U.S. attorney in San Diego, was named the so called Border Czar by President Bill Clinton a few years later to implement that same Gatekeeper strategy across the rest of the Southwest border. Burstin saw things a little differently. Neither side claims it, but Gatekeeper was probably the most important domestic achievement accomplished in a purely bipartisan manner through three administrations and the greatest accomplishment since President Eisenhower and the Democrats put together the state highway system in the mid-1950s. But in fact, while apprehensions did drop in San Diego, they spiked by 591% in the Tucson sector between 1992 and 2004, the LA Times quotes the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service as saying. One unintended consequence of this enforcement posture and the shift in migration patterns has been an increase in the number of migrant deaths each year. On average, 200 migrants died each year in the early 1990s, compared with 472 migrant deaths in 2005. Many of those deaths are now in a sector that encompasses the o' Oum reservation. The desert there is particularly hard to cross, and the enforcement that began with Operation Gatekeeper pushes more and more people onto the reservation. The Hono O' O' Otun people used to travel between the United States and Mexico fairly easily on roads without checkpoints to visit family, go to school, visit a doctor, or perform their traditional ceremonial practices. But after 9 11, the United States and its Border Patrol began a more visible and violent occupation of the reservation. It started with a vehicle barrier in 2007, and it continued with CBP's virtual wall of surveillance technology, cameras and drones. The Israeli company Elbit Systems has built fixed surveillance towers which they pioneered in the west bank on tribal land with the permission of tribal council. Meanwhile, other members of the nation strongly oppose the militarization of their homeland in the name of security of whatever homeland the Department of Homeland Security is securing. I'll quote here from Todd Miller, whose excellent work on the border is required reading for anyone interested in the subject. Amy Hwan and Nelly Jo David, members of Tohon O' Odham Hemmajkum Rights Network, joined a delegation to the West bank in October 2017 convened by the Palestinian organization Stop the War. It was a relief, one says, to talk with people who understand our fears, who are dealing with militarization and technology. In 2017 to horn autumn vice chairman Verlon Joseph said that a wall would be built over my dead body, and the tribe released a video saying there is no ottom word for wall. The 62 miles of the border on their reservation would remain without one they said by 2020, the Trump administration had forced through a wall on much of the border using what is known as the Roosevelt Reservation. This is a 60 foot wide strip of land that the federal government owns along the border in California, Arizona and New Mexico. Although much of the O' Odham nation remains war free and some has what's called a vehicle barrier or a normandy barrier, approximately 1/3 of the Roosevelt Reservation is on tribal land. Since 2005's Real ID act, environmental surveys and laws have been waived for border security. And this gave the Trump administration a way to justify the destruction of Ottoman Kumeyaay burial grounds, saguaro cacti for the Ottom seers, relatives and other sacred sites along the border. Despite efforts by tribal members and allies to stop the construction, members of the Tohono O' Odham Nation have been pepper sprayed, beaten, tailed and shot by border patrol. In 2002, a border patrol agent ran over and killed an Odham teenager. Last week, the same night I was waiting down by the border for the end of Title 40, two Border Patrol agents shot and killed Raymond Mattia, an odd to a man who had called and asked him for help. He was shot 38 times just 2ft from his front door, according to his family. While Mr. Mattia's death is still being investigated, the Border Patrol has a long tradition of literally getting away with murder. This is because they investigate themselves using so called critical incident teams. I talked to Jen about what those teams do and so what they would.

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Do is they would get there first on the scene because we would call them first, we wouldn't call anybody else, we'd call them first. And then they come, they get rid of the witnesses, they set the scene up the way we want to be done and they tell you the narrative that you're going to stick with. You talk to your union reps and it's all this giant cover up.

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Here's John Carlos Frey, a journalist who covered CIT cover ups, talking to Democracy now about how these teams work. Within the actual agency of the U.S. border Patrol, there is an investigative body called SITH, the Critical Incident. They are tasked with investigating incidents that involve Border Patrol and it can be anything from a car accident to in this case, an individual who's killed at the hands of the U.S. border Patrol. In this particular case of Anastasio Hernandez.

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Rojas, Border Patrol agents deleted video.

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They collected evidence at the scene. They were present in the hospital when Anastasio was being treated.

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They were present at the autopsy.

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They fudged reports, they Deleted reports.

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They coached their own agents on what.

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Kind of testimony they were to give. They were present at every one of the depositions. They made sure that they were the victims in this case. And when I say that, what I mean is that Border Patrol agents, SIT Team agents make sure that Border Patrol agents are looked at as the victims.

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In any sort of an incident, meaning that they are allowed then to use.

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Lethal force if a Border Patrol agent.

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Has rocks thrown at them. Or in the case of Anastasio, they alleged that Anastasio was violent and that.

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He was kicking and punching and he needed to be subdued. If we take a look at the videotape, that's not actually what happened. He's handcuffed, he's prone on the ground. His face is down. Agents are on top of him. But if you read the reports in.

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This case that were prepared by sit.

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Anastasio was a violent man and needed to be subdued. In 2021, Border Patrol was ordered to disband these teams, but Jen says they simply moved them somewhere else and gave them a different name.

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So then they said that they disbanded them because we brought the truth out how they did all this, and we proved it. But what they actually did is they did a retention. So they had the Border Patrol agents resigned from the Border Patrol and move over to CBP OPR and rehired them under there. So the team that likely went to go investigate the Tehonam Odom killing, I believe his name is Matia. Matia. Raymond Matia is likely the Border Patrol SIT teams. So if the Border Patrol agents, a lot of people don't understand. It's like a cult. They always say you bleed green, you know, and you don't go back from green. And probably one of the few that ever left, you know, and tells the truth about it.

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Of course, the vast majority of people whose families will never find justice because of these CIT teams are not white. And of course, Border Patrol has long rooted links to white nationalism. In 1977, about 45 minutes from San Diego and another 45 minutes from Hugumba, David Duke, Grand Dragon of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan at the time, announced the official beginning of Klan border watch. Duke claimed there were hundreds of Klansmen on the border. But local newspaper the Desert sun reported that there were in reality at least 10. I'll quote directly from the Desert Sun's reporting at a time here. Duke said clansmen would refrain from direct contact with illegal aliens if any are found. He said clansmen would not talk to them or contact them. But if any illegal crossings are seen, they're going to use CB radios to relay the information to Border Patrol, duke said. Duke, of Metairie, Louisiana, claimed the Klan has the support of the American people in helping the Border Patrol stem the influx of illegal aliens into this country. He claimed the illegal aliens take jobs away from US citizens. We feel this rising tide washing over our border is going to affect our culture, he told reporters at the time in a statement that wouldn't sound out of place on Fox News today. In response, more than 1,500 brown berets threatened to rally against Duke, and protests far outnumbering his patrols popped up along the border in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Texas Knights of the KKK leader Louis Beam, a Vietnam War veteran who had helped organize and promote Duke's border stunt, established paramilitary camps around Texas and trained children as young as eight in the deadly guerrilla warfare tactics he learned overseas. He rallied white fishermen against Vietnamese migrants and burned their boats. In 2019, a Border Patrol agent from Nogales named Matthew Bowen was accused of knocking down a Guatemala man with his vehicle and then lying to a court about the incident. The prosecutors in the case showed the jury text Bowen sent, including one which called migrants, quote, disgusting subhuman shit unworthy of being kindling for a fire. In several text messages, Bowen references Tonks this is a derogatory term for border crossing migrants. The origins of the term are a little bit unclear, but it seems to be derived from the sound of a flashlight hitting the back of someone's head. In an argument against omitting the texts, defence lawyer Sean Chapman wrote that he would argue certain terms are commonplace throughout the border patrols Tucson sector. This is part of the agency's culture and therefore it says nothing about Mr. Bowen's mindset. Jen says this kind of language and attitude was not uncommon in her time in Border patrol from the mid-90s to the early 2000s. But things have got worse since.

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There have been some definite changes in the Border Patrol in the training from before 911 to after 911 and what you also see. So their vocabulary has changed. So like they refer to migrants and asylum seekers as invaders. We never use that term. Prior to 911 we did have racist words that we used for them and I I use them as well. I'm not denying that.

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Of course this kind of language isn't just restricted to Border Patrol. The US has become a dumping ground for everybody else's problems.

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Thank you.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

It's true. And these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best, they're not sending you, they're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people. There has been white supremacist violence at the border ever since Duke and long before. Often it's been at the hands of groups outside of the state. Sometimes it's been at the hands of the state. In Arizona, groups like Arizona Border Recon and Minutemen American Defense have terrorized border communities for decades and gained renewed momentum from Trump's consistent demonization of migrants. I spent a bit of time looking for them in the desert in Arizona last week, but again, I didn't see much. Not that I really wanted to. Interaction with these militias, probably far more often than we have documented evidence for, can be fatal, just like interaction with Customs and Border Protection. Here's just one example code from David Newert's excellent book and how followed with.

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Her.

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On May 30, 2009, Shauna Ford, Jason Eugene Bush and Albert Gaxiola, all members of Ford's vigilante group Minuteman American Defense, forced their way into Raul Flores Jr. S home in Aravaica, Arizona by pretending to be Border Patrol agents. The group planned to steal and sell drugs they thought Flores had in his house. The FBI knew about this but did nothing to stop them. Finding no drugs in the house, servigilantes murdered Flores and his nine year old daughter, Brisenia. Flores, wife and Brisenia's mother, Gina Marie Gonzalez, was shot three times. She played dead, but when attackers returned, she exchanged fire with them using her husband's handgun. In doing so, she hit Bush. Bush had previously been charged with the September 1997 execution of an Aryan Nation associate for the supposed crime of being a race traitor. Both Ford and Bush are currently on death row in Arizona. The KKK was not the only group recruiting children for border patrolling. Since the mid-1980s, the Border Patrol's explorer program has recruited young men and women of high school age. The program is chartered through Learning for Life, which is a subsidiary of the Scouts of America for Kids, often the children of immigrants living in border towns where industry has long since gone and a decent wage is hard to come by. The program offers the chance at a starting salary of $62,000, twice the median income in some of these towns. Young explorers will learn tracking, survival, shooting and how to detain and process undocumented migrants, people who in some cases are walking in the footsteps of their own parents. According to an article by Morley Music in the Nation, young Explorers have to earn the right to their uniform by participating in a 60 hour basic explorer academy at which they learn CPR drills and the methods of conducting vehicle stops. It also offers courses in radio communications, public speaking, report writing and ethics and integrity, and introduces the youth to criminal, juvenile, immigration and fourth Amendment law. While I was writing this, I checked out the San Diego Sector page which seems to show young people running, shooting and one who looks like he's just been maced in the face. The next photo on the Facebook page dedicated to this Border Patrol sector shows a man in handcuffs. Above this is a video of someone dropping a child from the top of the border fence. Without figures from the cbp, it's hard to tell if participation in the Explorers has dropped as public awareness of family separation, assault and other behaviour doesn't exactly fit with the Border Patrol's motto. Honour first has spread. I asked Jen for her take on the Explorer program.

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Well, I call it Border Patrol Youth because it reminds me a lot of the Hitler Youth where we go into the high schools and we get the kids that are in trouble and typically they are Latino dominant high schools and, and we teach them how to be many Border Patrol agents and we teach them to hate somebody else instead of themselves. We indoctrinate them into the same stuff that I was indoctrinated too. But it's even gone so far now as to they do the dog and pony shows at the elementary school. So they're getting them when they're like 6, 7 years old and they go there with you know, little Border Patrol bulletproof vest and put them on them and take pictures and put it on social media and they, they have them sit in their trucks and turn the sirens on and all this other stuff.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

That indoctrination is crucial to Border Patrol culture. And to be honest, the reason I wanted to talk to Jen was to understand it better. In Hokumba, I'd seen a young Border Patrol agent, a woman giving volunteers rights. I'm not about to get into a Border Patrol truck myself and I wasn't going to get a response if I asked the agent how she squared up her role in holding people in the desert with the fact that some volunteers said she'd spend her own money buying supplies. Jen said that this kind of behavior can be pretty common with young agents.

[Narrator / Host]

I had intended to go to law school to be a civil rights attorney. When I joined the Border Patrol, and for me, I ignored my core values and ignored that I was enforcing laws that sent thousands of human beings to their deaths because I felt like I was trying to survive. I was raped in the academy by a fellow agent and they covered that up. And I was really trying to get out of the south and start my life. I often say, like, especially with female agents, they call us the first 5% because there's never been more than 5% women in the Border Patrol ranks. And they say, oh, it's because it's very hard. It's not because it's very hard. I mean, it is very hard to get through, but it's also, it's because they're sexually assaulting us all the time in the academy and harassing us. So I go back and forth in my mind and I would imagine this young woman, you know, she has days where she arrests some, some pretty decent criminals every now and then, once in a blue moon. But the majority of them, if she's paying attention and not completely self absorbed, she'll realize that, that they're not criminals and their family's just simply seeking asylum. So she at some point has to decide in her mind, is this what I got into? Is this what I want to do with my life?

[Interviewer / Reporter]

In the wake of 9, 11, and quite tellingly, the Border Patrol move from oversight by the Department of Justice to the new Department of Homeland Security. This move from justice to security has been echoed in its recruiting, which once drew heavily on those with humanitarian aid experience and now tries to appeal to veterans of the two decades of war that have accompanied the growth of DHS since 2001, when the DHS was first established, the name struck many as problematic. In the 2002 article in the New York Times, Elizabeth Becker wrote that the name had worrying similarities to the way the Nazis talked about their fatherland. And it didn't really fit with the way Americans spoke. Nobody in 2001 was talking about the homeland. But two decades and billions of dollars later, it's hard to find much in the way of criticism of the agency in D.C. despite the fact that the 2022 budgets of CBP and ICE were 16 and 8 billion, respectively. And every year since 2001, DHS has obtained more guns, more drones, and more surveillance technology that is inevitably used to spy on citizens as well as non citizens. In 1995, there were about 4,000 CBP agents. By 2020, there were 20,000, with 17,000 stationed on the southern border. This is a slight drop from a peak of just over 21,000 under Obama, who is often called the deporter in chief for his fondness for expelling people from the United States for crimes like having a pipe or financial misconduct, the so called aggravated felonies and crimes of moral turpitude that only exist for non citizens. These agents today have the ability to operate in what the ACLU calls a Constitution free zone and can conduct suspicion free searches of electronic devices, use cell site simulators and sweep up data about thousands of people never accused of any crime. One of the more notable examples of this happened only a few yards from where I was recording last week in San Ysidro. It's a story worth recounting in detail because it brings together the themes we've spoken about so demonization of migrants, government overreach, and a frank disregard for international and national law. In late 2018, I was enjoying a break from work in a caravan near Ensenada. If you think back to that time, right before the midterms, you might remember some of the rhetoric that circulated around a large group of migrants making their way to the southern border. I'll play some of the clips from Fox that NPR cut together in their coverage of the issue. The sympathetic, overwrought coverage of this invading.

[Narrator / Host]

Horde is, you know, calling it a caravan is a misnomer and frankly, sickening.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Or sample the chipper morning show Fox and Friends. I've gotten so many email from from people who said don't call it a caravan, call it an invasion. Yes, is that fair? Host Steve Ducey put the question to conservative pundit Michelle Malkin.

[Narrator / Host]

Of course it is. It is a full scale invasion by a hostile force and it requires our president and our commander in chief to use any means necessary to protect our sovereignty.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

CNN's Brian Stelter found that Fox News featured segments using the phrase invasion more than 60 times this month about the migrants. On Fox Business Network, Lou Dobbs program invoked it dozens of Times. Trump ordered 5,000 troops to the border, he tweeted yesterday, quote, this is an invasion of our country. And Trump has, without evidence, claimed gang members and criminals and Middle Easterners are among them. Over on Fox, guests have similarly, without supporting facts, suggested people from ISIS and the Taliban might be among those migrants. Even so, the network's chief news anchor Shepard Smith tried to put on the brakes yesterday. Tomorrow is one week before the midterm election, which is what all of this is about. There is no invasion. No one's coming to get you.

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There's nothing at all to worry about.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

This month, Fox hosts and guests have repeatedly questions whether the migrants might bring in infectious diseases. Again, without evidence. Laura Ingraham we don't know what people have coming in here. We have diseases in this country we haven't had for decades. I'll leave you to process the incredible irony of the network that killed a decent percentage of its viewers by denying that Covid was serious or a disease, or that vaccines and masks were useful. Panicking about infectious diseases just two years before the pandemic began. The Tree of Life shooter, who we won't name here, who is currently facing a death penalty trial for murdering 11 people in a Pittsburgh synagogue, was obsessed with the caravan. The victims of the largest anti Semitic mass murder in US History included a beloved community doctor, a great grandmother, and a couple who'd gotten married at the same synagogue more than 60 years earlier. The shooter's last post on hate speech social media site gab, posted just minutes before the synagogue massacre began, spells it out with a reference to the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, the Jewish nonprofit that resettles refugees in the United States. Hi, I'd like to bring invaders to kill our people. I can't sit by and watch my people get slaughtered. Screw your optics. I'm going in. The shooter was obsessed with the idea that a caravan of migrants was not a group of people trying to save their own lives, but a coordinated and somehow Jewish led invasion and attempt to demographically restructure the United States. If you're wondering where he got that idea from, here's America's favorite job seeker, Tucker Carlson on the Caravan over the past month, a caravan of Central American migrants has gradually made its way up from Honduras, through Mexico, all the way to Tijuana, opposite San Diego. At one point, Mexican authorities claimed they broke up the group, and American media, of course, dutifully reported that they did. But they didn't. That was just a PR gesture, and a temporary one. In fact, during parts of the trip, Mexican police escorted the migrants northward. In other words, the Mexican government abetted.

[Narrator / Host]

Illegal immigration into this country as it.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Has done for many years. Well, tonight the case the caravan is on our southern border. Rather than wait for the crossing station of San Ysidro to open, many of them just jumped the fence. Some waved Honduran flags when they got to the top. And that tells you everything. When you arrive in a country to contribute to it and to assimilate into its culture, you don't wave the flag of a foreign nation. That's what you do in triumph when.

[Narrator / Host]

You invade a country.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

On my way Home From Ensenado in 2018, I saw that quote, invading horde in the Benito Juarez sports complex and promptly turned around and went back. My instinct as a journalist is to cover things like this, but my instinct as a person is to help first. On the first day I was there with two friends I know from the weird world of pro cycling. Things were pretty bad. We'd obtained a backpack full of stroopwafels that a friend who makes stroopwafels had given us. Once we gave those out, I talked to a few people about what they needed. We coordinated with mutual aid groups in Tijuana and offered to support however we could. In the next few weeks, my friends and I spent tens of thousands of dollars at a Tijuana Costco, received thousands of dollars in donations from people we hadn't seen in years. And in one memorable instance, Rigdapper projected at someone had tactically obtained from an office to a DVD player, which we'd installed in the roof of a dilapidated nightclub for little children and their mothers so they could watch Beverly Hills Chihuahua and forget about the fact that the country they were traveling to was portraying the little infants as invaders. I have a lot of very complicated memories of those few weeks. Little girls braiding my hair, little boys and girls trying to comprehend exactly how I could be this bad at football. And people from San Diego churches, Tijuana anarchist kitchens and mutual aid groups around the region coming together to look after a group of people who'd been so heavily demonized by folks who'd never met them or even been here. Here's Trump defending, calling the caravan an invasion and simultaneously explaining why migrants low wage labor is desirable for people like him.

[Narrator / Host]

Thank you.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Mr. President, I wanted to challenge you on one of the statements that you made in the tail end of the campaign in the midterms that. Here we go. Well, if you don't mind, Mr. President, that this caravan was an invasion. As you know, Mr. President, I consider it to be an invasion. As you know, Mr. President, the caravan was not an invasion. It's a group of migrants moving up from Central America towards the border with the U.S. thank you for telling me. Why, why did you.

[Narrator / Host]

Why did you characterize it as such?

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Because I consider it an invasion. You and I have a difference of opinion. Do you think that you demonized immigrants.

[Narrator / Host]

In this election to try to. I want them to come into the.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Country, but they have to come in legally. You know, they have to come in.

[Narrator / Host]

Jim, through a process.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

I want it to be a process and I want people to come in.

[Narrator / Host]

And we need the people.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Your campaign, Your campaign. Wait, wait.

[Narrator / Host]

You know why we need the people, don't you?

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Because we have hundreds of companies moving in. We need the people. Trump, as you heard in the clip, used the migrant caravan as a prop for his racist and bigoted midterm campaign. It didn't work and he lost control of the house. But he did succeed in forcing these people to spend months in the cold, first in a sports stadium and then in an old nightclub. Even as the migrants gradually reduced in number, with many finding work and a new life in Mexico, some finding their way north, the long legacy of that caravan was only just starting. In the months that followed, journalists who'd covered the caravan as well as those who offered assistance to caravan members, said they felt they'd become targets of intense inspections and scrutiny by border officials. I got pulled into secondary only once during this time and that was entering Mexico. The worst I got was a chance to inspect my 1980 pickup truck's oil pan. But for others, things weren't so easy. Homeland Security investigation special agent turned whistleblower Wesley Peternack helped NBC to document that under the umbrella of what was called Operation Secure Line, the Department of Homeland Security created a database of activists, journalists and social media influencers tied to the migrant caravan when they crossed the border. Individuals in that database were often subjected to hours long screenings and in some cases had flags placed on their passports. A PowerPoint slideshow, which Petanak leaked to NBC 7, lists some of the people, some of them have been guests on this show. They include 10 journalists, seven of whom are U.S. citizens, a U.S. attorney, 48 people from the U.S. and other countries who are labeled as organizers, instigators or having unknown roles. The target list also includes organisers from groups like Border Angels and Pueblos infronteras. I asked journalist Brooke Bincowsi to describe her experience of increased border scrutiny in 2018.

[Narrator / Host]

If you don't have a pre approved card, you have to like go through, wait in line, wait in this long ass line and then, you know, you go and get vetted by cbp. They ask you some questions or they just wave you through, depending on what kind of day they're having or whatever. So in my case, I started getting pulled into secondary inspection more and more. So they would wave my car over and then take me into the secondary place where it's sort of like this back, it's like a Quonset hut sort of, and in it, like all these cars drive in and out and they'll they'll go through your things, they'll get in your face, you know, they'll do all kinds of stuff.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

And I, I don't.

[Narrator / Host]

There have to be cameras in there somewhere, but I've never seen any. So I just kept getting pulled into secondary more and more, as though I was a suspicious person, as though I was suspected of something.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

And every time I asked, they'd be.

[Narrator / Host]

Like, I don't know, it's just random, ma', am. Ma', am, it's just random. So actually this started about 2014 for me, but it started to escalate in 2018. 2017, 2018 started to escalate. And I was like, a Trump administration, of course, gonna escalate right under Trump.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

She said things got worse from 2017 through 2018.

[Narrator / Host]

It kind of worked where it pushed back. And I'd be like, you need to let me go. You know, I'm century, I'm already pre checked. If you think that there's something wrong that I'm doing, then take my century away. And I want to talk to your manager type stuff, right? So I was doing that. That worked until 2018, and then it started to get really gnarly.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Eventually things came to a head. The day before, the migrants of the caravan were tear gassed, and a scene most people remember from 2018.

[Narrator / Host]

So. But on that, that night, as I was coming back, I drove through and I did the sentry thing, you know, the usual stuff, and got pulled into secondary. And this time it was really like, gnarly. The time before that had also been really gnarly. Like nobody hurt me, nobody did anything, but they got really close to my face, like right in my face, you know, and started screaming at me, like screaming over me. And I kept going, I'd like to speak to your manager, you know, sir, like, please, please get out of my face, sir. And it was, it was gross. And they were going through my shit.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

And that was gross.

[Narrator / Host]

Like they didn't find anything, but it was just an invasive, hostile, disgusting thing. And that was when. So I said, can I speak to your manager? Which is a magic phrase when you're a middle aged white woman. So I say this and they bring over some guy and he goes, ma', am, can I help you? I'm like, yeah, what the fuck? You know, why are you treating me this way? Why, why did any of this happen? And he goes, oh, yeah, I'm sorry, your name's on a list somewhere. You've been flagged. And I'm like, so every time I've crossed. I've been flagged. He's like, yeah, and, yeah, there's a flag on your passport or against your name, and that's why. And I said, well, why is there a flag against my name? And he goes, I don't know. You're gonna have to do a Freedom of Information act request or something. I don't even know if he knew I was a journalist.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Sadly, Brooklaus crossed in 2018, and since I photographed those Kumeyaay folks in ceremony near Campo, the border wall has only got longer. Every mile it stretches out means another mile into the desert people have to walk, and that means that more people won't walk out of that desert. Those people who lost their lives in an attempt to save them are marked with little red dots on the various maps that attempt to put the humanitarian crisis into a visual form. Those dots begin in South America as people die traveling north, but they're sparse and isolated. Where that changes is the places I've been driving all week. Eastern California, Southern Arizona. Places I know from years of hiking, climbing, and cycling. Places where one mistake can be fatal. I know from my friends who spend time resupplying water caches and searching for missing people that you don't have to make any mistakes to die in the desert, especially if you're young or old or sick or afraid to ask for help. These are the places we force people to travel through on foot to come here and create a better future for themselves. Dehydration, exposure, and drowning all rank highly as causes of death along the border. Last year saw a record for border deaths, and with Biden attempting to take a hard line going into 2024, and climate change and instability continuing to drive migrants north to the place that causes so much of that climate change and instability, there's no reason to believe things will get better. I want to point to one tragic loss, one of thousands that happened not far from where I live. In February of 2020, Juana Margarita and Paulo Santos Arceus were traveling by foot from Oaxaca to their future in the United States along a trail sometimes known as a shrine trail. Their family told media back home that they were searching for el cueno Americano, the American dream. Along their route is a small religious shrine, which marks the last point from which you can see Mexico. It's well inside the US Along a dry creek bed in the Laguna Mountains. It can be hot in the summer and cold in the winter. Last November, I camped out there, and even with thousands of dollars in gear, I was dangerously close to cold injury I've also rescued hikers with dehydration symptoms near here. The desert and the weather might be part of the story, but the desert doesn't kill people on its own. It's the border that forces people deep into the desert that kills them. The desert is just a tool for a system that uses death as a deterrent. When the girls crossed the border near Campo on the 9th of February, it was raining. As they climbed into Laguna Mountains, it started to snow. They huddled under a boulder for warmth, and the two men smuggling them across struck out to get cell Reception and call 911. By the time Borstar, Border Patrol's search, trauma and rescue team arrived, two of the girls had died as they tried to save Juana. Their request for air support was declined, and she died with one of the agent's jackets wrapped around her, another agent's beanie on her head. For some reason, the girl's remains were not recovered right away and they were not rewarmed. And so they lost their last chance at the American dream and at life. Today, their final resting place is marked by three crosses and a cache of supplies placed there by volunteers. At the time I'm recording this, we don't know where all the folks we met at the border are now, and we might never know. Not being able to follow stories is the sad part of this reporting. Sometimes people all have my phone number, but they might not anymore have their phones or the scrap of paper I wrote it on. Often these things can be taken from them in custody. What we do know is that on May 18, exactly one week after Title 42 ended, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, also known as ICE, tweeted a video of Customs Enforcement and Removal Operations agents that walking down the corridor of a flight full of masked people. The caption read, ice conducted multiple removal flights, including Ecuador, Guatemala and Honduras, as part of dozens flights conducted each week. On the wall of my office as I write this, there are several propaganda posters from the Spanish Second Republic. One is as simple as it is heartbreaking. The poster depicts a squadron of fascist bombers and the dead body of a child. The slogan underneath reads, if you tolerate this, then your children will be next. The poster was of course, correct. It was the inspiration for Songs for the Clash and the manuscript Preachers, which are what in turn made me want to learn about the Spanish Civil War. The slogan, coined in 1937, feels as relevant today as it does then. It was one that folks on the border might as well have been screaming by 2018, but one that went ignored just as it did in 1937. In 2020, folks began to realise what it meant when Border Patrol drones circled the skies around Minneapolis and cell phone signal interceptors tracked citizens all over the US when they came together to demand that the police stop murdering people. It became more real in 2023 when, under DeSantis, Florida began the process of legalising state kidnapping of trans and gender non conforming kids from their loving families. But that all began when the state ripped indigenous children from their families in the 19th and 20th centuries and tried to destroy their culture by punishing them for wearing their clothes, speaking their languages or using their names. Wasn't a big leap from there to Trump's family separation policy, which detained kids on their own away from their families as a means of punishing and deterring migrants. And it's reached its obvious endpoint in Florida because despite all the people chanting about kids in crages in 2020, there's almost universal bipartisan agreement on treating people at our southern border like humans without rights. And because for two decades we've allowed the border surveillance industrial complex to grow to an unprecedented and uncontrollable scale that watches us all. Changing things now will be very difficult. DHS outnumbers many nations armies and is considerably better equipped. But unless people show up and take action, things are going to get considerably worse, regardless of who you vote for or what they say in order to get you to vote for them. As Katie said, little things can make a difference. And if you listen this far, I hope you'll take the time to try and do those little things. Before we go, I want to update you on what's happened in the week we've been publishing this. Although there are no longer people held out in the open in Hagumba and San Ysidro, there are still many people trying to present themselves at the San Ysidro border to claim asylum. Today I was told there are about 100 of them. They're waiting there, often for days. Most of them are getting turned away. They're all frustrated with CBP1, which continues to be buggy, offer no appointments and struggle to photograph black faces. I also wanted to mention some of the organizations you can find and donate to if you'd like to support their efforts. They are the Asian Solidarity Collective, Palo Trolado, the American Friends Service Committee, Border Kindness, Borderlands Relief Collective, the Haitian Bridge alliance, the Partnership for the Advancement of New Americans and Prevencassa P R E V E N C A S A I'd also like to thank Joe Orellana His Twitter is oorphoto for his reporting, which very much contributed to this series. Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from now until the heat death of the universe.

[Narrator / Host]

It Could Happen Here is a production.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Of Cool Zone Media.

[Narrator / Host]

For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for It Could Happen here listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening. What do you think makes the perfect snack?

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.

[Narrator / Host]

Could you be more specific?

[Interviewer / Reporter]

When it's cray venient. Okay. Like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right down the street at am, pm. Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at a.m. pM.

[Narrator / Host]

I'm seeing a pattern here.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Well, yeah, we're talking about what I crave, which is anything from am pm. What more could you want? Stop by AMPM where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's cravenience am pm Too much good stuff. Hello, America's sweetheart. Johnny Knoxville here. I want to tell you about my new true crime podcast, Crimeless Hillbilly Heist from Smartless Media, Campside Media and big money Players. It's a wild tale about a gang of high functioning nitwits who somehow pulled off America's third largest cash heist.

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Kind of like Robin Hood, except for the part where he still from the.

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Rich and gives to the poor. I'm not that generous. It's a damn near inspiring true story for anyone out there who's ever shot for the moon, then just totally muffed up the landing. They stole $17 million and had not bought a ticket to help him escape. So we're sitting like, oh God, what do we do? What do we do? That was dumb. People, do not follow my example. Listen to Crimeless Hillbilly Heist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Ed Helms, host of snafu, my podcast about history's greatest screw ups. On our new season, we're bringing you a new snafu every single episode. 32 lost nuclear weapons. You're like, wait, stop.

[Narrator / Host]

What?

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Yeah, it's gonna be a whole lot of history, a whole lot people of funny and a whole lot of fabulous guests. Paul Scheer, Angela and Jenna, Nick Kroll, Jordan Klepper. Listen to season four of SNAFU with.

[Narrator / Host]

Ed Helms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple.

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Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Narrator / Host]

The murder of an 18 year old.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

Girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved.

[Narrator / Host]

For years until a local housewife, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Interviewer / Reporter]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns. Listen to Graves county on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Narrator / Host]

This is an iHeart podcast.