New Wall Construction and Borderlands Resistance

Summary

It Could Happen Here – "New Wall Construction and Borderlands Resistance"

Date: October 23, 2025
Host: James Stout (Cool Zone Media)
Guest: Eric Mesa (Borderlands Coordinator, Sierra Club)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the escalation of border wall construction in the U.S.-Mexico borderlands, its environmental and human costs, and forms of grassroots resistance. Host James interviews Eric Mesa to discuss new projects, the consequences for wildlife and indigenous lands, organizing strategies, and ways listeners can engage and support borderland communities.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. New Border Wall Projects and Their Scope

[02:33–04:19]

• Border Patrol's Plans: CBP recently announced intentions to construct nearly 10 new miles of border barrier (west of Tecate) and introduce over 51 miles of “system attributes.”
• System Attributes Explained:
  • Poorly defined but include expanded lighting, surveillance technology, and new roads for Border Patrol vehicles.
• Impact Zone: The wall will impact the Otay Mountain Wilderness, a remote, biodiverse region, also the birthplace of the Tijuana River.
  • "This is going to have a huge impact on the area... through an area that it is very remote montane region." – Eric Mesa [03:36]

2. Environmental & Human Costs

[04:19–07:39]

• Environmental Consequences:
  • Massive land disturbance (blasting, clear-cutting, road expansion)
  • Introduction of invasive plants, flooding, loss of native species
  • Threats to rare plants and wildlife movement (e.g., mule deer, mountain lions)
• Sacred Indigenous Sites:
  • "These areas have been sacred sites for the indigenous communities since time immemorial." – Eric Mesa [06:40]
• Wildlife Encounters:
  • James recounts witnessing mule deer distressed and attempting to reach water sources blocked by the wall.

3. Bureaucratic Participation & Resistance

[08:34–09:34]

• Public Comment Period:
  • CBP is soliciting community feedback, but Eric shares skepticism based on ignored past efforts.
  • Importance lies in documenting opposition: “Trying to do something, I think, adds value. It shows that we didn't let this just happen.” – James [08:19]

4. Expansion under Current Administration

[10:01–13:05]

• New Funding:
  • $46.5 billion allocated to border security, with contracts for 230 miles of new barrier and 400 miles of surveillance tech.
  • Doubling of barriers: In some areas, a secondary wall will be constructed next to the existing 30-foot wall.
• Humanitarian Impact:
  • As the wall expands, migrants are forced into more dangerous, remote areas, increasing deaths.
  • “Forcing people into those remote areas and then constructing barriers there too… it's just going to cause more deaths.” – James [12:11]

5. Fractured Landscapes and Ecological Consequences

[13:05–14:29]

• Increased border militarization leads to new roads, human encroachment, and further environmental fragmentation.
• “It's just going to end the last of the remaining wildlife remote migration corridors as well.” – Eric Mesa [14:11]

6. Community Organizing & Direct Action

[19:34–23:53]

• Historic Example (Arizona Shipping Containers):
  • Grassroots coalition stopped illegal shipping-container wall construction; the community rallied and preserved the landscape.
  • “A bunch of people really came together... and stopped the machines and we said, no, they're not going to move any further.” – Eric Mesa [21:19]
• Ongoing Resistance:
  • Collaboration between humanitarian, environmental, and indigenous groups
  • Emphasis on creative advocacy: Direct action, inviting media, art performances
  • Caution around government repression makes activism risky: "So it is just walking that fine line… make a bold statement and show opposition without putting people in danger." – Eric Mesa [23:38]

7. Narrative Control & Media Blindspots

[25:11–28:36]

• Misinformation and Negativity:
  • National narratives heavily militarized, painting the borderlands as “sacrifice zones.”
  • First-hand visitors often surprised by the region's warmth, beauty, and vibrant organizing.
• Right-Wing Media Prominence:
  • Mainstream coverage sparse except from Fox News; borderlands realities often misrepresented.

8. Building Solidarity and Ways to Help

[33:27–38:52]

• Mirroring Border Issues at Home:
  • Listeners encouraged to start by engaging with social/environmental justice in their own communities.
  • “Social justice and environmental justice is the same thing.” – Eric Mesa [36:08]
• Financial Support:
  • Donations to grassroots & mutual aid groups are impactful.
• Policy Engagement:
  • Example: Senator Mike Lee (Utah) promotes privatizing public lands for border security, affecting all Americans.
  • "I do not understand how there is a constituency that wants to take land from the public domain and turn it into military bases and oil fields and McMansions for rich people." – James [39:08]

9. Staying Involved & Further Resources

[40:39–43:38]

• Follow & Connect:
  • Sierra Club Borderlands: website & social media (@SierraClubBorderlands)
  • New coalition site: Border Wall Resistance (decentralized info, updates, vivid photography)
  • Efforts like “Rally for the Valley” organize around high-risk zones for new construction.
• Solidarity Network:
  • The “borderlands region” includes much of the Great Lakes and coastlines—2/3 of the US population is affected by border policy.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

"We might lose some very sacred sites for the tribes forever."
— Eric Mesa [06:35]

"All the stuff that is really bad in America right now, it started at the border."
— James [09:34]

"People made that less bad. They kept them safe. And there'd have been a lot more people who, who didn't make it through outdoor detention if it wasn't for community support."
— James [34:22]

"Whatever you're passionate about, just get involved. But I think the worst thing that we can do right now is just to ignore the fact that we are in a bad spot."
— Eric Mesa [36:08]

"[The borderlands] is just 2,000 miles of wonderlands. So unfortunately separated by in many cases by this huge metal 30 foot structure."
— Eric Mesa [42:14]

"Two thirds of the population of this country lives on the borderlands region... that includes coastlines and the Great Lakes."
— Eric Mesa [43:27]

---

Timestamps of Important Segments

• [02:33] – Introduction, border wall plan overview
• [04:19] – Environmental and indigenous impacts
• [07:39] – Wildlife stories and community comment process
• [10:01] – National scope: $46.5b budget & further expansion
• [12:11] – Humanitarian crisis: migration routes and deaths
• [19:34] – Direct action and resistance examples
• [25:11] – Mainstream media’s failure to represent borderlands
• [33:27] – Community support along the border; lessons for the nation
• [35:24] – Practical ways to support from anywhere
• [40:39] – Where to follow and participate in advocacy

---

Resources and Further Involvement

• Sierra Club Borderlands:
  • Website: Search for "Sierra Club Borderlands"
  • Social media: @SierraClubBorderlands
• Border Wall Resistance:
  • Website: borderwallresistance.org
• Rally for the Valley:
  • Grassroots video and updates about organizing in San Rafael Valley
• Grassroots/Local groups:
  • Contact these networks for collaboration or to be connected with local projects, regardless of your state

---

This episode offers a candid, grounded look at the ongoing, often-hidden struggles in the US borderlands—a space of loss, resistance, and hope, where collective action and solidarity remain necessary antidotes to militarization and environmental devastation.

Transcript

[James]

This is an iHeart podcast. Johnny Knoxville here. Check out Crimeless Hillbilly Heist, my new true crime podcast from Smartless Media, Campside media and big money players. It's the true story of the almost perfect crime and the nimrods who almost pulled it off. It was kind of like the perfect.

[Eric Mesa]

Storm in a sewer that was dumb. Do not follow my example.

[James]

Listen to Crimeless Hillbilly Heist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you your podcast.

[Maggie Freeling]

The murder of an 18 year old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Snacks from Trap Nerds]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns.

[Maggie Freeling]

Listen to Graves county on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Snacks from Trap Nerds]

What's up everybody? It's snacks from the trap nerds. All October long, we're bringing you the Horror.

[James]

Boogity boogity boogity.

[Eric Mesa]

We kicking off this month with some of my best horror games to keep you terrified.

[Snacks from Trap Nerds]

Then we'll be talking about our favorite horror and Halloween movies and figuring out why Black I always die first.

[James]

And it's the return of Tony's Horror show side Quests, written and narrated by yours truly. We'll also be doing a full episode.

[Snacks from Trap Nerds]

Reading with commentary and we'll cap it off with a horror movie Battle Royale. Open your free AHA Radio app and search Trapped Nurse Podcast and listen now.

[James]

Welcome to Decoding Women's Health. I'm Dr. Elizabeth Poynter, Chair of Women's Health and Gynecology at the Atria Health Institute in New York City. I'll be talking to top researchers and clinicians and and bringing vital information about midlife women's health directly to you. 100% of women go through menopause.

[Eric Mesa]

Even if it's natural, why should we suffer through it?

[James]

Listen to Decoding Women's Health with Dr. Elizabeth Poynter on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maggie Freeling]

Call Zone Media.

[James]

Hi everyone, and welcome to the show. It's me, James Today, and I'm very lucky to be joined again by Eric Mesa, who's the Borderlands Coordinator for the Sierra Club. Eric, how are you doing?

[Eric Mesa]

I'm doing okay, James. Thanks so much for the invitation.

[James]

Yeah, thank you for joining us. Sadly, we don't have a lot of good stuff to talk about right now. It's pretty difficult time in the borderlands. But maybe we could start off with something that I've reported on briefly in our weekly news show. The Border Patrol is currently soliciting comment for its plans to build border wall through the Otay Mountain Wilderness and other areas west of Tecate. Right. Could you explain a little bit about what they're proposing and what the consequences of that will be?

[Eric Mesa]

Yeah. Well, hi, everybody. So happy to be here and not so happy to be sharing this news, but so what the announcement was recently by the Border Patrol, especially on the San Diego area, is the announcement of the approximately 9.7 miles of new border barrier system. And on top of that, over 51 miles of what they call now system attributes.

[James]

Yeah.

[Eric Mesa]

And this is going to have a huge impact on the area. This is going to be about 2.9 miles west of the Tecate port of Entry, going through an area that it is very remote montane region. And some of people hearing this are more familiar than I am. I've actually never been. But I've been talking to some of the local organizations that do humanitarian aid in the region. And I know that Tecate Peak is in that area. And then you start going west into these beautiful mountains that are also the birthplace of the Tijuana River. That's exactly the area where it's going to go.

[James]

Yeah.

[Eric Mesa]

So right now, CBP is accepting comments and asking people in the community, what kind of concerns do they have? Concerns in regards of the environmental impacts of a project like this, what kind of social and economical impacts? So they open up this section on their website with an email address where people can share some of these concerns. As you mentioned, I'm part of an environmental organization, but we also have all kinds of concerns for a project like this, including the border barrier and the system attributes, which are very poorly described of what they mean. Some of the things that they mention as system attributes is the increase of lighting infrastructure, surveillance equipment and new roads for access for Border Patrol vehicles. So one of the things that we're going to expect that we have seen in other areas is more blasting through the mountain, especially on areas where the mountain is so uneven. The terrain there is a lot of heavy machinery has to come into those places to start bulldozing to level the terrain so they can start building this border wall so we can expect some of that. And with that come a lot of issues because there is going to be the need to start drilling wells at the border to extract this water for mixing the concrete for the found. If there was any road out there, they're going to probably widen the road two or three times to allow this having machinery to access these remote areas. This is just going to be the beginning, just setting up the panels. But whenever you go to these places and start disturbing the native soil, you can expect all kinds of consequences in regards to invasive species of plants. You can also expect some flooding and removal of native vegetation. In some cases. There is some species that are rare on the area that having these impacts, you know, can be long lasting for them to be able to recover if they're able to do so. The area on the south side of the border is also an area where animals need to be moving back and forth. So species like the native mule deer colony that lives there, there is mountain lion and other species of mammals and pretty much everything that is 4 inches wide that it's not going to be able to make it through that border wall. So, yeah, we're just raising these concerns and sharing with the communities. So they're able to also as well send an email to cbp, Cosmos and Border Patrol and express these concerns and also to remember that these areas have been sacred sites for the indigenous communities since time immemorial. So we might lose some. Some very sacred sites for the tribes forever.

[James]

Yeah, like, I know the topic. Tekate Mountain has been sacred to Kumeyaay people. I believe it's Kuchoma in Kumeyaay. But it's been sacred to them for, as you say, much longer than this has been the United States.

[Eric Mesa]

That's correct.

[James]

You and I have both seen it in different places. Right. The damage that the border wall does, not just to people. I've seen mule deer running along it, like trying. They're clearly trying to find a way through. Right. Like this is their habitual pathway. There are some areas near, very, very near the border, like within a hundred yards of the border where there are naturally occurring creeks and little ponds which will hold water at a time when water can be very hard to come across here. And so I've seen deer kind of distraught almost, trying to get to this place where they've obviously learned that they can get water, but now they can't. It's really heartbreaking on top of all the other cruelty that it does, I suppose we should address. Like, I'm not sure how much we can accomplish by the. By the comment period. Right. But it has value nonetheless. Like trying to do something, I think adds value. It shows that we didn't let this Just happen.

[Eric Mesa]

Yeah, that's right. I honestly am not very hopeful from these common periods because this is not the first time they're asking the community to provide input. And with past experiences that we have organized in other areas, other segments of the world, even in other states, we haven't get a response even, or an acknowledgement of these concerns. So that by itself is really concerning. But I think it is important that the communities around these areas are aware about this and they get involved and that there is this community sentiment against this abuse of power that the administration continues to do in the borderlands and using them as the sacrifice zone, as these testing grounds for what can potentially continue to happen or expand to not only on the border, but in other cities like we are seeing with the expand of militarization nowadays.

[James]

Yeah, definitely. Like all the stuff that is really bad in America right now, like it started at the border.

[Eric Mesa]

That's right.

[James]

People are seeing it in their communities now. But, like, we've been seeing it where we live for a long time. Can we talk a little bit about there's been some other construction right then. San Diego is not the only place right now. There's a significant budget reallocation to construction a border barrier. And there's more construction east of San Diego, right?

[Eric Mesa]

Yeah, that's right. Most of the construction that is happening right now, it was with all funding that was from the 2021 funds that were available since the first Trump administration. So we were hoping that that was going to be like the end of the funding. But since the proposal and passing of the quote, unquote, big, beautiful bill, we gotta remind ourselves that now the administration has allocated $46.5 billion for border security, and that includes border barriers and system attributes. So pretty much anything related to border security right now, they have the funding to do it. They pretty much have the funding to put a double wall across the whole US Mexico border. Yeah, so that's huge. You know, in recent days, we got a new wave of contracts that were awarded. In October 10th, we got this announcement that out of this funding, the 46.5 billion, they allocated a little bit over 4 billion. And this will fund them 230 miles of new physical barriers and 400 miles of surveillance technology across the US Mexico border from California to Texas. That's. And they put up a new section on their website where there is a map that you can navigate. It's an interactive map that shows every single section of the border and what they're planning to do with it. And as surreal as it Sounds they are planning to double up the wall. So in some places in remote areas in the desert, like in Organ Pipe National Monument or Cabeza Prieta in Arizona and those areas, there is plans to build a secondary wall. So on top of the 30 foot barrier that they have, they're planning to do a second one.

[James]

Yeah, we have that in San Ysidro. Right. We have a double 30 foot barrier. The Biden administration used it to corral people seeking asylum. Right. They kept them in between the two walls and then denied that they were in detention. I don't know if we'll see that again, but I guess just from my own experience participating in mutual aid along the border, those remote desert areas are where people go when we build wall in Otay, when we continue to detain and turn people back in less remote areas, they will take the risk of going to a more remote area and forcing people into those remote areas and then constructing barriers there too. It's just going to cause more deaths. It's not going to stop people trying to come because there are things that they are leaving which are terrible. But it will mean that they get stuck out there in the heat without water for longer, right?

[Eric Mesa]

That's correct, James. So exactly what you said. People in San Diego like the border in Otay, you already have the double wall. So you know, like having this hyper militarized area and how that just is going to expand and the consequences of that is as you mentioned, you push people out further, more remote areas. And two things happen by doing that. First and most important, more people die. But also remember that these areas, like these remote areas were also like semi pristine wildlife environments that you never had humans moving through before. Now as people have been pushed to these remote areas, you have this human traffic and not only migrants moving through, but you also have the border patrol chasing these migrants. And now you, you have border patrol wanting to build new roads to these wilderness areas. And all of these just keeps building up into what's already a very fragmented landscape. So by adding all these quote unquote system attributes, because you're pushing and pushing people further and building these double walls, it's just going to end the last of the remaining wildlife remote migration corridors as well. So the impacts that this is going to have are huge.

[James]

Yeah, yeah. For like all living creatures, as you said. Let's take a break, Eric. We'll come back and talk about it some more.

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[Eric Mesa]

All I know is what I've been told and that's a half truth is a whole lie.

[Maggie Freeling]

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Eric Mesa]

I'm telling you we know Quincy killed her.

[Maggie Freeling]

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.

[James]

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

[Maggie Freeling]

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be be here if the truth were that easy to find.

[Eric Mesa]

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff.

[James]

That y' all said.

[Maggie Freeling]

They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured.

[Eric Mesa]

Gas on her.

[Maggie Freeling]

From Lava For Good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

[Snacks from Trap Nerds]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns.

[Maggie Freeling]

Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Narrator for Chinatown Sting]

In early 1988, federal agents raced to track down the gang they suspect of importing millions of dollars worth of heroin into New York from Asia.

[Eric Mesa]

We had 30 agents ready to go with shotguns and rifles, and you name it.

[Narrator for Chinatown Sting]

But what they find is not what they expected.

[Eric Mesa]

Basically, your stay at home moms were picking up these large amounts of heroin. They go, is this your daughter? I said, yes. They go, oh, you may not see her for, like, 25 years.

[Narrator for Chinatown Sting]

Caught between a federal investigation and the violent gang who recruited them, the women must decide who they're willing to protect and who they dare to betray.

[Eric Mesa]

Once I saw the gun, I tried to take his hand and I saw the flash of light.

[Narrator for Chinatown Sting]

Listen to the Chinatown sting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere you get your podcasts.

[James]

All right, we are back. Let's talk about, like, how people are organizing, right, like, at this time when it does seem really bleak at the borderlands, like, the Trump administration didn't really construct very much wall in its first iteration. It did construct a bit, but not as much as it wanted to. And you and I are both very familiar with the consequences that has had. Right. Like, it has caused more people to die. The Biden administration continued constructing and quote, unquote, repairing border barriers. They also pioneered outdoor detention. And, like, it just seems like things with whoever gets elected but more rapidly under Republicans get worse. What are people able to do? We've spoken about this a lot on this show, but I'd love to hear your perspective, too.

[Eric Mesa]

It's been hard, honestly, as a person working on environmental issues in the border, because definitely the loses are much more than the wind sometimes, so that can be disheartening.

[James]

Yeah.

[Eric Mesa]

But there has been some glimpses of hope. I think one of the things that we did here in Arizona that was definitely felt really good and gave us some hope is when the governor of Arizona decided to put some shipping containers and make his own makeshift wall. So a bunch of people really came together on the community outrage because this was just some really dumb ide in one of the most remote, beautiful areas where there is not even people moving through. And it was just going to destroy the environment. And the governor went out there and spent $200 million of taxpayers money to buy these shipping containers and build this border wall. So we were actually. All the community came together. We showed up out there in the desert and stopped the machines and we said, no, they're not going to move any further. And because what they were doing was actually illegal, we were able to get away with it. And those shipping containers are gone right now still. Arizona taxpayer paid $200 million to destroy their own environment. Just let that sink in. We can be using that money for much better things. So I think that president and that movement, that sense of community that was built after that resistance has continued after that. There is a lot of self organized grassroots efforts going on for border resistance. And that encompasses humanitarian aid groups, environmental groups. And we are also organizing nowadays here in Arizona to do some direct action, try to show up to the San Rafael Valley, which is where the border construction is going, and start raising some national attention to this issue, trying to invite our politicians, start, invite our native communities to speak out and using different methods such as art performance, bring up some different strategies together. Now, with the technology that we have available, is that how can we make this more mainstream and tell people across the nation what's going on in these remote areas? You know, a lot of people have a lot of connection to this valley. And this is the headwaters of the Santa Cruz river, the lifeblood of many communities across the southern Arizona. And at the same time, on the other side of the coin, you know, there is all these oppression by the government to anything that is against their will. So a lot of people feel a little bit afraid of showing up to direct action.

[James]

Yeah.

[Eric Mesa]

So it is just walking that fine line of what can we get away with and still be able to make a bold statement and show opposition without putting people in danger?

[James]

Yeah. Yeah. I think that is something a lot of people are really worried about. But it is important within the realm of things that we can do to show our opposition to this and to stand in solidarity with the animals and the indigenous people whose sacred spaces are being defiled and with migrants whose lives are being put in danger by this. I wonder. I find it so strange, I guess, that we're at a time when reporting on migration is becoming a major growth industry. I guess Editors who I could not get to respond to an email or pick up the phone for the last four years are now commissioning pieces on migration. But there still seems to be like a blind spot about the border in the American news media. I don't know why that is. I don't know if you have ideas about why that is, but the borderlands are such a special place for me anyway. I've spent nearly 20 years of my life here. Some of my favorite places in the world are near the border. I think people think of the border as like San Isidro, but it contains some wonderfully remote and special places. And I wonder if you have thoughts on why. Like, the border isn't something that gets talked about that much on a national level.

[Eric Mesa]

I think it does get talked about, but unfortunately, the narrative that is usually built around that is really negative.

[James]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Eric Mesa]

And of course that's with an intention, right. Of continue to build up this militarized state or sacrifice zone. And so whenever I talk with the people that is here for the first time, you know, I do these group presentations for delegations that come from all over the country to experience the borderlands region. And they're like, they have all this perspective, you know, for what they hear on the news about how horrible, horrible this is. And then they come here and they're like, wow, people here is like, really nice. And we have had a great experience and I really inspire. And it's like coming with this prefabricated narrative on their minds of this wasteland sacrifice zone, you know, like, and then going out after experiencing. Yes, some of that. And of course, if you go out to the. To the border and experience the wall and the roles and rolls of concert in a wired. And make it look like you're on a war zone.

[James]

Yeah.

[Eric Mesa]

Plus the. Plus what you already have in your mind, you know, it just keeps building up, the intensity. And then you hear the stories from people, the struggle from migrants and stories from back in 2023 when we had the surge of migrants coming and all these things, you know. But at the end, people leaves with. With a glimpse also, like, wow, this place is really beautiful and a lot of wonderful things are happening. A lot of movements of people trying to organize and make it a better place and trying really hard to shift this narrative. You know, the borderlands provide us a good opportunity, you know, because what we see today, like a friend of mine said, it can get worse. And it's going into that direction. Yeah, yeah, it's going into that direction. But at the same time, it gives us an opportunity as a society, you know, because whatever happens at the border is definitely going to have a ripple effect in the rest of the country. So we are able to figure out a way to shift that narrative and look at the border like, like people that lives and experience or there and the culture of the beautiful things that the border has to offer. Then we hope that that's going to help change a lot of the things that are happening in this country, you know, but we need to start, I think, organizing from the bottom up. Yeah, a lot of grassroots effort need to be happening and I think a lot of media needs to cover this. You know, we usually don't cover the good stories. So.

[James]

Yeah, yeah, you're right. Like it's funny, the right does cover the border. You're right. Or the, you know, the Fox News kind of cadre does cover the border. Like I don't like the way they cover it, but like the only national network guy I will see down there is the Fox guy for the most part.

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[Eric Mesa]

All I know is what I've been told and that to have truth is a whole lie.

[Maggie Freeling]

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Eric Mesa]

I'm telling you. We know Quincy killed her. We know.

[Maggie Freeling]

A story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.

[James]

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

[Maggie Freeling]

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer. And I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

[Eric Mesa]

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff.

[James]

That y' all said.

[Maggie Freeling]

They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured.

[James]

Gas on her.

[Maggie Freeling]

From Lava For Good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

[Snacks from Trap Nerds]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

[Maggie Freeling]

Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Narrator for Chinatown Sting]

In early 1988, federal agents raced to track down the gang they suspect of importing millions of dollars worth of heroin into New York from Asia.

[Eric Mesa]

We had 30 agents ready to go with shotguns and rifles and you name it.

[Narrator for Chinatown Sting]

But what they find is not what they expected.

[Eric Mesa]

Basically your stay at home moms were picking up these large amounts of heroin. They go, is this your daughter? I said, yes. They go, oh, you may not see her for like 25 years.

[Narrator for Chinatown Sting]

Caught between a federal investigation and the violent gang who recruited them, the women must decide who they're willing to protect and who, who they dare to betray.

[Eric Mesa]

Once I saw the gun, I tried to take his hand and I saw the flash of light.

[Narrator for Chinatown Sting]

Listen to the Chinatown sting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere you get your podcasts.

[Snacks from Trap Nerds]

What's up everybody? This is snacks from the Trap Nerds podcast and we're bringing you the horror every week all October long.

[Eric Mesa]

Kicking off this month, I'll be bringing you all my greatest fear inducing horror games.

[James]

From Resident Evil to Solid Hill.

[Eric Mesa]

Me and Tony bringing backfireteam on Left 4 Dead 2. And we just gonna be going over.

[James]

Some of the greats.

[Snacks from Trap Nerds]

Also in October, we'll be talking about our favorite horror and Halloween movies and figure out why black people always gotta die first.

[James]

The umbral reliquary invites any and all fooling brave enough to peruse its many curiosities. But.

[Eric Mesa]

But take it all sales are final.

[James]

Weekly horror side quests written and narrated by yours truly with a full episode read and a commentary special.

[Snacks from Trap Nerds]

And we will cap it off with Horror Movie Battle Royale. Jason versus Freddy. Michael Myers versus the Alien Thing with the Little Tongue Monster. October. We're doing it Halloween style. Listen to the Trappers podcast from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[James]

I know one thing I like to do with my friends or like if someone comes to visit, you know, sometimes I have other independent journalists come visit to walk down to the border wall. And it seems very bleak, right, because there's this big wall and it's covered in Constantino wire, as you say. And maybe there are Marines or National Guard or Border Patrol or any other. Like it's people with guns, right, and different uniforms. But then if you turn around, you're in this really special place where you don't see the people and you just, you can appreciate how beautiful it is. It's also very beautiful that like you say, there's so much bottom up organizing, that there's so much people helping people of all different kinds. And that's something we all saw in 2023 when Title 42 ended and subsequently the Biden administration detained people outdoors. Like, we saw an incredible community response of all different kinds of people of different political persuasions, different faith groups, which was a really beautiful thing. Like, it's a thing that a lot of the rest of America right now could, could learn from. The government was brutalizing people and people made that less bad. They kept them safe. And there'd have been a lot more people who, who didn't make it through outdoor detention if it wasn't for community support. Like, I want people to see that. I wonder if people want to support, let's say they're not in the borderlands. Can you think of good ways for them to be in solidarity, for them to even to experience? I know a lot of people who listen to this have come. It's really wonderful for me to meet people when I'm not working, when I'm just out there in my capacity as someone who cares about other people doing water drops, doing mutual aid with migrants, or helping people at street release. To hear of people who listened to this and then decided to come from wherever they were and spend some time here and help, that's a really special thing. But do you have other ideas on how people can be in solidarity and can come and help?

[Eric Mesa]

Yeah, definitely. I get this question very often from different people that comes to bc. I usually recommend people to start where they are in their own communities because there is reflections of border issues in your own community. There are people that are migrating that might need some help. There's people that shelters and all these or just kind of like get involved with Your local whatever you're passionate about, you know, it doesn't really have to be an environmental issue, but we gotta remember that social justice and environmental justice is the same thing.

[James]

Yeah.

[Eric Mesa]

You know, we are really like whatever you're passionate about, just getting involved. But I think the worst thing that we can do right now is just to ignore the fact that we are in a bad spot. You know, I think a lot of people just wants to continue riding their comfort zone wave and it's. That's going to end, you know, and I think we need to not only think about ourselves, but we need to think about the generations coming ahead of us. And I think it's especially for the people that has already had the opportunity to somehow live a life, you know. But there's some that are about to start that journey and I think it's our responsibility to make it the best as we can for them as well. So whatever you're passionate about, and if you really want to and you're passionate about border related issues and you're not able to come try to support, you know, like financial help is, you know, we like it or not, we're in a capitalist society and we move with financial support.

[James]

Yeah.

[Eric Mesa]

So a lot of these events that we're creating, a lot of these outreach that we're doing, a lot of the people like new generations that need jobs that are wanting to join like let maybe a non profit work or create their own movement or doing something related that's going to help the community. Yeah. Support those if you are able. Those are really good ways to get involved and make some change.

[James]

Yeah, definitely. There's a lot of things you can do as you say. And I think it does help to build up networks of caring for people everywhere. We want to live in a world where people take care of one another. And to do that we have to start it everywhere. It's not like the border is the only place where bad things are happening. I know we draw a lot of strength. There's people who live at the border from that solidarity, but also from seeing people do their own things wherever they're at. That is how we build a world where systems of oppression are less able to oppress people.

[Eric Mesa]

Yeah. And one of the things we see here, most of the decisions taken for the border are not taken by people from the border. A lot of these big policy decisions, for example, Senator of Utah right now is putting up a bill for the border to sacrifice a lot of public lands for new roads and like new military installations. So it's like, people from Utah are not directly on the border, but yeah, they can also send letters and comments or vote these senators out, you know, and somebody that really, like, cares for the environment.

[James]

Yeah. If you're in. If you're in Utah, your senator has been advocating to sell off the public lands that you own that are safe. I mean, they're native land. It's all native land, and it should be returned to its original custodians. But in the meantime, you own it. And at least all of us can access it until Mike Lee gets his chance to sell it all off to his buddies in real estate. And like, you could be an extremely conservative person and we could disagree on a lot of shit, and I think we could find unity on that. Like, I do not understand how there is a constituency that wants to take land from the public domain and turn it into military bases and oil fields and McMansions for rich people to have as their second home. That should be a thing that everyone agrees on. And he didn't stick the landing on it the first time in the reconciliation, the big, beautiful bill. But I think that's a really good area to engage people. Folks who might not be like, yeah, I will show up for migrants. I think a lot of people, they could be people who enjoy the outdoors, people who just care about the environment, the hook and bullet crowd. Like. Like there are a lot of people, even if they don't, quote, unquote, use public lands. Like, we all benefit from them being there and future generations benefit from them remaining undeveloped in a. In a substantial way.

[Eric Mesa]

That's right.

[James]

Sorry, I just went off on one. That guy really pisses me off. Shit. Makes me so mad. Coming from a country that it's entirely private land. It is. To see someone being like, yeah, that's a good idea. Just fucking asinine, Eric. I wonder if people want to keep up with the Sierra Club, keep up with how they can submit opposition comments if they want to know more about this new border construction and the impact would have. Where can they follow along? Is there a website or social media?

[Eric Mesa]

Yes, James, thank you. Yeah, we do have all of it. We try to engage people where they are, and we know social media is a powerful tool. We have a website, Circle of Borderlands. People can look up some of the work that we do there. We are also active on social media. We are here at Club Borderlands. However you look at it, you're going to find us. We're based out of Arizona, but we do organize in different states. We're in Collaboration with other organizations as part of a larger coalition. So even if you are in Texas or New Mexico, feel free to reach out. And if you have any concerns, ideas, things that come up to your mind that can make the border a better place, feel free for, feel free to reach out and we can collaborate, work together on this or at least connect you with some of the local people that are part of the network. Because we're always looking to make this network bigger. You know, I think there's strain numbers going to get more and more people to join this coalition in the different states. So even if you're not on the border states, if you're in D.C. and you do lobbying and you're into policy change. Yeah. Come reach out and you can find us, like I said, on website or we got an Instagram account. We also have like a grassroots video right now called Rally for the Valley and that's what we're trying to do for the San Rafael Valley over there. You're going to be able to find updates. And we created a decentralized website right now that is called Border Wall Resistance. I invite everybody to take a look at it. It's full of beautiful pictures of the border. When James and I were talking about how beautiful this place is, go to that website and you understand what we're talking about because it's so diverse. You know, the border is so unique on each area. You know, the border is not defined by Tijuana, San Diego or Nogales. You know, it is just 2,000 miles of wonderlands. So unfortunately separated by in many cases by this huge metal 30 foot structure.

[James]

Yeah.

[Eric Mesa]

Anyways, so that's the website, the social media for circle of borderlands and gravelly border bound and the Borderland Resistance.

[James]

Yeah, definitely reach out if you, if you recently found out that you live within a border enforcement zone and weren't aware of that because I know a lot of people in Chicago and other places have very recently found out that as far as the state is concerned that they too are in the borderlands, it'd be good to build some solidarity there.

[Eric Mesa]

That's right. Two thirds of the population of this country lives on the borderlands region. So because that includes coastlines and the Great Lakes. And the Great Lakes. So we're talking about a lot of communities.

[James]

Yeah. Well, thank you very much for your time, Eric. We really appreciate it. That was a good discussion.

[Eric Mesa]

Thank you James. And hoping that continue to be in touch and continue organizing, I guess all these things and thanks so much for the space and thanks for all you listeners.

[James]

Yeah, you're welcome.

[Maggie Freeling]

It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website, coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for It Could Happen here, listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.

[James]

This is an iHeart podcast.