It Could Happen Here — Podcast Summary

“Strange People on the Hill: An Interview with Michael Edison Hayden”

Aired: April 1, 2026
Host: Molly Conger
Guest: Michael Edison Hayden

Overview

This episode features guest Michael Edison Hayden, investigative journalist and co-host of Posting Through It, who joins Molly Conger to discuss his new book, Strange People on the Hill: How Extremism Tore Apart a Small American Town (releases April 7, 2026). The conversation explores the impact of far-right extremism on everyday communities, using the case study of Berkeley Springs, West Virginia, a picturesque small town that became the unlikely home of VDare founder and white nationalist Peter Brimelow, who purchased the town’s iconic castle. Hayden and Conger delve into the complexities of covering the far right, the social fallout for towns that attract extremist figures, and the personal toll investigative reporting takes on journalists themselves.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Book’s True Focus: Beyond the Villains

[00:54–02:18]

• Initial Expectations vs. Reality: Conger admits she expected a sensational exposé of Peter Brimlow and the so-called “racism castle”; the book is instead centered on the town and its residents.
• Narrative Choice:
  • Hayden says he wanted to avoid giving more attention or myth-making to far-right villains:

    "I really didn't want to write a book that was about these villains ... I wanted to focus more on what these people and this culture ... is doing to everyday people." ([01:32])

2. Who is Peter Brimlow and What is VDare?

[02:31–05:27]

• Background: Financial journalist turned white nationalist, obsessed with anti-immigrant sentiments.
• Past Acceptance: His views, once lauded by the political mainstream, were always underpinned by racism (as Conger observes:

  "If people like David Frum had been honest with themselves, it was there all along. It was not a subtle undercurrent." ([04:24])

• VDare’s Influence: Railed at the GOP’s centrist immigration stance, ultimately influencing the party’s shift.

3. The Castle and Berkeley Springs

[06:14–09:09]

• Castle as Symbol:
  • The castle is both beautiful and burdensome—a tourist attraction, economic asset, and, post-purchase, a shadow cast by far-right ownership.
  • Hayden notes:

    “This is the main landmark. ... all of a sudden you have this, again, SPLC labeled white nationalist, anti immigrant ... couple buys this castle, right?” ([07:09])

• Community Dynamics:
  • Liberal business owners serving tourists and a largely conservative local population.
  • Town’s struggle: How to respond when private property is acquired by extremists?

4. Microcosm of American Society

[10:16–13:19]

• National Mirror: The castle’s dominance is a metaphor for extremist influences infiltrating broader society and the GOP; local drama mirrors national polarization.
• Preconceptions vs. Reality: Extremists expect white communities to be receptive, but often encounter resistance and division.
• Comparables: Similar struggles in Enid, OK and northern Idaho as examples of how local politics are infiltrated and disrupted.

5. Complexity and Divisions Within Communities

[13:19–18:00]

• Community Response:
  • Many in Berkeley Springs resist being defined by Brimlow and his values, leading to social division (“The town is... completely divided, maybe irrevocably so.” [16:20])
  • Defenders are often motivated less by ideology than personal loyalty or indifference:

    "They're not saying 'what he said is ok,' they're saying 'he was nice to me, why are you making such a big deal out of this?'" ([16:28])

• Friend-Enemy Logic: Discuss the “profound friend, enemy distinction” as the new basis of loyalty—overriding values and facts.

6. National Upheaval and Personal Struggles

[19:32–27:07]

• Timeline: The book tracks the story through Covid, BLM, J6, 2024 election, etc.—national events shape small town life.
• Trauma and Journalism:
  • Hayden shares the emotional and mental toll of investigating extremism—recounting threats (including assassination), harassment, and being driven toward mental health crises.
  • Conger underscores the emotional cost and the culture of downplaying journalist trauma:

    "We don't talk enough about the fact that this destroys us." ([27:25])

7. Professional and Institutional Failure

[27:30–38:39]

• Risks of Reporting: Harassment isn't just digital; it includes fears of lawfare, threats to family, and profound professional stress.
• Inside SPLC:
  • Hayden details lack of mental health support at SPLC (“...that's a human rights abuse to make you look at gab all day and not get you a therapist.” [31:12]) and union-busting practices.
  • Management retaliated against union organizing and mental health disclosures despite branding as a progressive institution.

8. The Fallout: Both Communal and Personal

[38:39–41:19]

• Aftermath: Hayden was terminated, but ultimately received a settlement after threatening legal action for ADA and labor violations.
• Town as Support: Post-breakdown, those in Berkeley Springs he originally reported on helped nurse him back to health, closing the narrative loop.

9. No Easy Heroes or Villains

[41:19–43:09]

• Human Complexity: Both extremists and resisters are depicted as complicated, often flawed people:

  “I wanted to avoid ... wishy washy utopian... we’re all people, like, trying to live. ...The people who are allies have all kinds of issues.” ([39:53])

• Strange People on the Hill: The Brimlows’ journey is ultimately a tale of overreach leading to isolation and defeat.

10. Decline of VDare and the Brimlows

[43:09–46:53]

• From Triumph to Defeat:
  • VDare’s initial optimism—castles, donations—gives way to defeat (Letitia James’ investigations, community backlash, and organizational closure).
  • Brimlows remain isolated; Hayden notes the lack of real solidarity on the far right compared to mutual aid practices on the left.

11. Reflections on the Far Right and What’s Next

[46:53–52:08]

• Movement Fragmentation:
  • Once fallen, figures like Kessler are quickly forgotten by their own side: “They’ll use you up and forget you.” ([46:53])
• Possibility of Change:
  • Hayden hopes for, but rarely sees, repentance among extremists; wishes for simply disengagement and cessation of harm.

12. Closing Thoughts & Broader Relevance

[52:08–54:02]

• Book as Microcosm: A snapshot of one community’s struggle has meaning for the nation; the personal becomes political and vice versa.
• Message to Listeners:
  • Buy or request the book.
  • Recognize that what seems like a localized struggle is being played out in small towns across America.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the "Microcosm"

  “The way this castle bears down on this little town... mirrors the way the influx of these extreme right wing ideas into the gop... is bearing down on us.” — Molly Conger, [10:16]

• On Community Resistance

  “It's white people saying they don't want to be represented by these values.” — Michael Edison Hayden, [15:08]

• On Trauma

  “We don't talk enough about the fact that this destroys us.” — Molly Conger, [27:25]

• On Internal Divisions

  “They're not saying what he said is okay or I believe what he said. They're saying he was nice to me. Why are you making such a big deal out of this?” — Molly Conger, [16:28]

• On Solidarity (or Lack Thereof)

  "There’s no solidarity on their side... if someone gets targeted on our side, we support them... They don’t do that for each other. They hate each other." — Michael Edison Hayden & Molly Conger, [45:12–45:22]

• On Moving Beyond Extremism

  “Just stop trying to make everything worse.” — Molly Conger, [48:04]

• On the Book’s Purpose

  “It is a fascinating picture of a particular moment in time that has broader lessons, I think.” — Molly Conger, [54:02]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:54–02:18 — Book’s real subject: the community, not the extremists
• 02:31–05:27 — Background on Brimlow and history of VDare
• 06:14–09:09 — Castle purchase, town dynamics
• 13:19–18:00 — How townspeople relate to/resist extremism
• 19:32–27:07 — National events (Covid, BLM, Jan 6) and personal trauma
• 27:30–38:39 — Inside SPLC; lack of institutional support
• 41:19–43:09 — Portraying real people and their flaws
• 43:09–46:53 — The downfall of VDare and the Brimlows
• 46:53–52:08 — The right’s lack of loyalty; can extremists choose to disengage?
• 52:08–54:02 — Lessons for listeners and why the book matters

Takeaways for New Listeners

• The book dissects how the presence of far-right extremists affects not just politics but the fabric of a town—and how these struggles are emblematic of the national mood.
• Investigative journalism on extremism comes at tremendous personal cost, while institutional support is often lacking—even among progressive organizations.
• The “strange people on the hill” are ultimately less of a focus than the resilience and complexity of ordinary people grappling with radical disruption in their communities.
• The conversation is candid, moving, laced with dark humor, and offers hope that small-scale resistance is still possible, even as wider structures are captured by extremism.

Strange People on the Hill: How Extremism Tore Apart a Small American Town by Michael Edison Hayden releases April 7, 2026. Request it at your local library or independent bookstore. For more from Hayden, check out Posting Through It podcast and follow him on Bluesky and Twitter.