Strikes, Walkouts, and Union Busting At Nestlé's Blue Bottle

Summary

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It Could Happen Here – "Strikes, Walkouts, and Union Busting At Nestlé's Blue Bottle"

Date: December 16, 2025
Host: Be A Wong
Guests: Alex Pine (President, Blue Bottle Union), Abby Sato (Secretary Treasurer, Blue Bottle Union)
Network: Cool Zone Media & iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

In this episode, host Be A Wong welcomes back Alex Pine and Abby Sato, leaders of the independent Blue Bottle Union, to discuss a turbulent year of strikes, union organizing, and intense union-busting tactics at Blue Bottle Coffee—a specialty coffee chain owned by Nestlé. The conversation recounts walkouts, the struggle for better workplace conditions, the dramatic firings of key organizers, and the sometimes absurd extremes of company retaliation. The episode highlights both the challenges and victories of worker-led organizing, emphasizing solidarity, resistance, and the ever-adaptive tactics of corporate power.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Background and Union Formation

• Union Beginnings (03:35): Blue Bottle Union was formed in May 2024 at all six Greater Boston locations and expanded to four East Bay, CA, shops by July 2025.
• Why Unionize?
  "Bosses can be petty tyrants... Sometimes it seems like the only reason that they got into being a boss is because they want to be a petty tyrant but don't have the soul for politics anyways." – Alex Pine (03:27)
• Nestlé as Parent Company: Discussion of Nestlé's notorious labor practices and ongoing controversies.

Walkouts and Escalating Actions

• Multiple Walkouts:
  • Sept 2024: Over the unjust firing of a Harvard Square union rep.
  • Jan 2025: After Blue Bottle refused negotiations impacting workers' tips at the Prudential Center—potentially costing employees hundreds of dollars/month.
  • May 2025: A walkout over company’s unilateral installation of security cameras and refusal to negotiate.
  • Spontaneous Walkout Over Technical Labor Law: After the firing of a co-worker, staff walked out immediately, even though the violation was technical (failure to negotiate serious discipline per prior practice). (07:36)
• Solidarity in Action:
  "If we don't walk out right now, then what is the point?" — Abby Sato (09:11)
  "Union is friendship and friendship is unions. And when your friend gets fired, you should be able to walk out." — Abby Sato (09:46)

The November 2025 Strike

• Catalyst: The firing of three key organizers—Abby Sato, Nora, and Ashley—for dubious or petty reasons.
• Example of Retaliatory Firing:
  On the record, I was fired because I wore green pants... there's nothing worse than waking up at 4:30 to go to your opening shift at your stupid cafe job to then clock in and be immediately hit with separation forms because you wore green pants three weeks ago." — Abby Sato (11:08)
• Duration & Impact: Both Boston and East Bay stores went on a four-day strike, with 5/6 Boston cafes closed—managers had to staff the only open location.
• Company Tactics:
  • Escalating union-busting; using turnover as a strategy; refusing to negotiate.
  • "They are so scared. They are scared shitless. And they don't know what to do about it. And they're breaking glass left and right trying to maintain power. But...the solidarity we have...cannot be broken by management." – Abby Sato (27:10)

Management’s Union-Busting & Bargaining Obstruction

• Delay & Obstruction Tactics:
  • Demanding union split costs of bargaining spaces, even as an independent union (20:09).
  • Refusal to meet in any party's office, resulting in meetings in college conference rooms, city hall, and even WeWork spaces.
  • Refusal to move past wage floor for negotiations—after a year, company only offers to maintain current $18/hour, retaining right to reduce at will, despite union requesting $30/hour (21:25).
• Absurdity of Management Logic:
  • Use of bizarre analogies and shifting justifications for control (13:56).
  • Dismissal of workers' rent burden issues by suggesting it's due to "too many streaming services" (31:56).
• Proposed Management Rights Clause:
  • A sweeping clause asserting total managerial authority over every conceivable aspect of employment, prompting incredulous reactions from union leaders (35:34).

Theoretical & Emotional Reflections

• Power, Eloquence, and Despotism:
  • Discussion referencing David Graeber’s work on violence, power, and eloquence in authority (18:54).
  • Corporate reliance on brute authority over thoughtful negotiation: "The more power you have, the less eloquence you have to have." – Be A Wong (18:54)
• Corporate Fragility:
  • "The moment you try to claw it away from them, they see how fragile it is... they have to write all this shit down that they think they’ve always been able to do." – Be A Wong (36:44)
• Why Persistence Matters:
  • "It’s not tough for people that we work with to realize that they’re getting a bad deal and that the reason that the job sucks is because they don’t get paid enough to live in the city." – Alex Pine (30:42)

Memorable Anecdotes

• The Green Pants Firing:
  "Firing Abby was generous. Actually. She should have been put to death for the crime of wearing green pants." – Alex Pine (11:46) (sarcastic)
• Managers Running Cafes During Strike:
  "I don't think a single latte went out correctly that day. But hey, at least they can still collect their $9 per latte." – Abby Sato (27:48)
• Manager on TikTok:
  • Description of a manager ignoring work to watch a TikTok "mob boss’s wife" story for 45 minutes while opening the store (24:37).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Corporate Control:
  "They never say where they believe this right comes from. They all make, like, an argument for naturalism where, like, we are vested by the universal power of management to be able to do this." – Alex Pine (35:39)
• On Strike Solidarity:
  "The solidarity that we have between our co-workers, it just cannot be broken by management." – Abby Sato (27:10)
• On Fighting Authority:
  "Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks. It leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear... The day will come when all these skirmishes and battles, these moments of defiance, will have flooded the banks of the Empire’s authority, and then there will be one too many. One single thing will break the siege." – Be A Wong, reading from Andor (41:36)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 02:11 | Introduction of guests & union background | | 04:13 | Context: Nestlé's history & Blue Bottle's union campaigns | | 05:22 | Early walkouts & the lead-up to strike actions | | 07:36 | Technical labor law violation & spontaneous walkout | | 09:46 | The meaning of union solidarity — "union is friendship" | | 11:08 | The "green pants" firing and escalation of union busting | | 13:12 | Management's control over dress code and union memorabilia | | 20:09 | Company tactics: refusing neutral bargaining spaces | | 21:25 | Blue Bottle's insulting wage counter in bargaining | | 27:10 | Aftermath of the November strike; impact on store operations | | 30:42 | Reflections on how easy it is to see through corporate tactics; barista rent burden stats | | 35:34 | Reading and discussion of the draconian "management's rights" clause | | 41:36 | Closing reflection: resisting tyranny with hope and persistence |

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What’s Next & How to Support

• Call to Action:
  • If you work at or frequent Blue Bottle, reach out to the union to help with organizing ([e-mail]).
  • To support the strike fund: tinyurl.com/bbiu-strike.
  • Ongoing boycott of Blue Bottle products until wrongful terminations are reversed and contract is secured.
  • Read bargaining updates and more: bluebottleunion.org

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Conclusion

This episode offers a raw and often humorous look at organizing under a hostile corporate conglomerate. Despite intimidation, legal maneuvering, and surreal workplace discipline, the Blue Bottle Union has stayed united, escalating actions and building support. Their experiences serve as a guide and inspiration for other workers: change is possible, even when the deck seems stacked.

“You can fight your own bosses too. And you can beat them. And you can watch them running around in terror like fucking chickens with their head cut off. And you can get shit from them that they never would have wanted to give you in the first place.” — Be A Wong (41:57)

Transcript

[Abby Sato]

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[Abby Sato]

Media.

[Be A Wong]

Welcome to Abbott Here, a podcast that boldly asked the question what if a whole bunch of your life wasn't controlled by the bizarre whims of random dictators? This is your host, Be A Wong. And the last time we saw the Blue Bottle Union they had staged a walkout treated eclipse. Now they are back again to talk about union shit. And yeah, with me is Alex Pine who's the president of Blue Bottle Union and Abby Sato, the secretary treasurer. Yeah, both of you two, welcome to the show.

[Alex Pine]

Hi, thanks for having us both back on.

[Abby Sato]

Yes, thank you so much.

[Be A Wong]

Yeah, I'm really excited to talk about this because the last one, I gotta say that was one of the absolute funniest uni things I'VE ever heard.

[Alex Pine]

Yeah. I still can't get over how DHS got called on us when we tried to file for our election.

[Be A Wong]

So what it like, I feel like this is, this is one of the things about doing the show is like I'm like about to be five years into this, right. It's like you think you've seen it all and then just like. No, just, just the most unhinged bullshit you've ever heard in your entire life. Because like, just like the capacity for cruelty and inventiveness of boss effectively infinite. So they can always find some bullshit to pull that you've never seen before.

[Alex Pine]

And they love to do it too. Yeah. This is one of the reasons why we unionize to begin with is just because bosses can be petty tyrants.

[Be A Wong]

Yeah.

[Alex Pine]

And sometimes it seems like the only reason that they got into being a boss is because they want to be a petty tyrant but don't have the soul for politics anyways. Yeah. We unionized last May. For anybody that's unaware, Blue Bottle is a so called specialty coffee chain that is owned entirely by Nestle. Yes. That one that everyone regards as widely being evil.

[Be A Wong]

Yeah. See an extremely long episode that I did, for example, about Nestle Chocolate and child labor. It's great. It's child slave labor. Good stuff. We love capitalism.

[Abby Sato]

And their coffee business is truly no better.

[Alex Pine]

Yeah. I mean this is going to get wildly off topic before we even begin. But if anybody looks up the NGO Coffee Watch, they do a lot of great reporting and research on the supply chains of coffee, specifically Nestle's and Starbucks. And it's all very ugly stuff. But Blue Bottle. Blue Bottle is a specialty coffee chain owned by Nestle. We unionized all six of their Greater Boston locations in May of 2024. And this year we added four locations in the East Bay area to our union in July. Hell yeah. Yeah. We also just concluded a multi day strike as an independent union at the end of November. So Black Friday. Hell yeah.

[Be A Wong]

Hell yeah.

[Alex Pine]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Be A Wong]

So let's talk about that strike. Well, actually, I guess. Okay. We should, we should probably do the run up to what has been happening until we got to that strike. I'm getting, I'm getting strike excited.

[Alex Pine]

No, no. This is how I've been in my mind since September is just how do we make a strike happen?

[Be A Wong]

Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about like what the sort of lead up stuff to the action were and let's talk about like. Yeah. What expanding was like.

[Alex Pine]

Yeah. Abby, do you want to talk about the lead up.

[Abby Sato]

Yeah. So since we unionized last May, we've had multiple staged walkouts in September of last year. Hell, yeah.

[Alex Pine]

Hell, yeah.

[Abby Sato]

One of our union reps at the Harvard Square location was unjustly fired, so we did a walkout over her termination. We did a walkout in January of this past year after Blue Bottle completely refused to negotiate with us over the renovation of the Prudential Center. And a lot of employees were going to be losing out on almost $8 in tips an hour.

[Alex Pine]

Jesus Christ.

[Abby Sato]

Hundreds of dollars a month. And the company was like, oh, well, we bargained to an impasse, so we're just going to do whatever we want. We were like, okay, well, that's not. That's not how this works.

[Alex Pine]

No.

[Abby Sato]

Yeah. And then in May of this year, we did another walkout when they made the same argument that we bargained towards in pass when they tried to install.

[Alex Pine]

Security cameras for anybody that's wondering. No, the cafes in Boston did not have cameras in them for the entire time that we were organizing or unionized until we began negotiating the installation of cameras as part of our contract. When they felt like they were done talking about cameras with us, they declared impasse, which they can't do because we were negotiating it as part of the contract. So they would have had to get to an impasse on the entire contract before doing it.

[Be A Wong]

Yeah.

[Alex Pine]

And their lawyer basically said, well, we weren't getting anywhere with that, so we're going to do it anyways.

[Be A Wong]

Oh, God. Labor law is so fun because it's like. Like every boss breaks like 100 million labor laws a second, and then kind of nothing happens unless you force it to. It's just.

[Alex Pine]

Speaking of breaking weird labor laws since we unionized, one nice thing that has happened was until May of this year, they were negotiating over serious discipline. So final written warnings or terminations with us. In effect, what this means is that they would sit down with us and just talk about why they felt like terminating someone was justified until they said, we're not going to do anything else aside from fire them. But because of an NLRB ruling with Starbucks at the end of April, their lawyer said that they were done with that and they felt that they had no legal obligation to continue doing it.

[Be A Wong]

Oh, fun.

[Alex Pine]

Yeah. Which is a break from past practice. And we have in writing them committing to negotiating over serious discipline with us. So less than a week after they say we're not going to bargain over discipline with you anymore, they fire one co worker of ours, and our store immediately walked out over It. Hell yeah. Yeah. I continue to be proud of that walkout specifically because it wasn't planned and because it was over something that is pretty technical labor law wise. Just the fact that they didn't negotiate over the termination.

[Be A Wong]

That's what that wrong.

[Alex Pine]

Yes.

[Be A Wong]

That's like. Girl who's read a bunch of weird labor history. This thing feels like a thing for fucking weird laboratory thing. It reminds me of is there was this thing in, I think it was Gora in Spain during like the 20s and 30s where it was like this hyper militant labor, like union, like labor town. But they had a whole thing where they refused to strike over like improving economic conditions because they were like, this is bourgeois reformism. And they would only strike over political stuff.

[Alex Pine]

Hell yeah.

[Be A Wong]

But if you arrested like one person, like the whole fucking city would go out. It's like this. Yeah. No, we could just call us. We could, we could just fucking instantly get a. Get a fucking walkout to happen over just like over like them with like kind of technical labor stuff like this rocks. We love to see it.

[Abby Sato]

Yeah. I was on the floor that day that our coworker was fired. And I remember I went on my 10 minute break after she was fired and there's like a pond behind our store and I was literally throwing rocks into the pond and I was like, this sucks so bad and I'm so angry. And then I was like, wait, we're unionized?

[Be A Wong]

Hell yeah.

[Abby Sato]

I was like, wait a minute, we had a union. And I go back into the store and I was like, hey, guys, if we don't walk out right now, then what is the point?

[Alex Pine]

Yeah.

[Abby Sato]

And everyone was like, yeah, actually, if we don't walk out right now, what is the point?

[Be A Wong]

Hell yeah. Hell yeah.

[Abby Sato]

And then we all walked out and it was. It was really beautiful actually.

[Be A Wong]

That's so sick. That's so beautiful. I don't know, there's some kind of metaphor for like you walking in being like the first. The rock hitting the pond and the first ripples going out and the whole thing.

[Abby Sato]

Oh, absolutely.

[Be A Wong]

Doing the strike. But like that's. I don't know. It's gorgeous. I love it. That fucking rules. Congratulations. Hell yeah.

[Abby Sato]

One of my favorite things to say is that union is friendship and friendship is unions. And when your friend gets fired, you should be able to walk out.

[Be A Wong]

Yeah. Yeah. Fuck that. Like, like, seriously.

[Alex Pine]

Yeah. And on the whole, we've had a, I think pretty successful year, especially because I want to stress this, we're independent. So for all the walkouts that we've Done. We've been able to replace the wages of baristas.

[Be A Wong]

Oh, that's really sick.

[Alex Pine]

If anybody listening to this wants to help us be able to do more walkouts, you can go to tinyurl.com bbiu-strike.

[Be A Wong]

Will be in the description.

[Alex Pine]

Hell yeah. Because at this point the companies realize that they can't break our solidarity in any meaningful way by resorting to scare tactics or delaying. And so now they've just resorted to straight up firing people because. Yeah, like, it's kind of like a break glass here in case of emergency thing where they're like, we're all out of ideas. What do we do?

[Be A Wong]

Yeah, start trying to fire everyone.

[Alex Pine]

And.

[Abby Sato]

And that's what they've done.

[Alex Pine]

Yeah. Most recently, all the stores in both Boston and the East Bay area went on a four day strike this November because the company illegally fired Abby. Executive board member named Nora and an organizer of ours in the East Bay named Ashley for all incredibly petty reasons. I don't know if you want to speak more to why you were fired, Abby.

[Abby Sato]

Yeah. So on the record, I was fired because I wore green pants.

[Alex Pine]

What?

[Abby Sato]

I wore green pants like three weeks prior to me being fired. And let me tell you, there's nothing worse than waking up at 4:30 to go to your opening shift at your stupid cafe job to then clock in and be immediately hit with separation forms because you wore green pants three weeks ago. What?

[Alex Pine]

You must understand what a serious infraction it is to wear green pants. Of course.

[Abby Sato]

I mean clearly the green pants that I've been wearing for the better part of two years. Yeah.

[Alex Pine]

Firing Abby was generous. Actually. She should have been put to death for the crime of wearing green pants. Of course.

[Be A Wong]

Most likely like this is some like fucking medieval like. Yeah, you pissed off the monarch by like you wore a color of pants that was like unfavorable to the eye of the king. And now he's like having you drawn in quarter, like, what is this bullshit?

[Abby Sato]

Like, yep, I wore green pants in front of my manager there. I should not be able to make my rent.

[Be A Wong]

Yeah, it's absolute gibberish. That, that might be the all time dumbest firing reason I've ever heard. Like, what is?

[Abby Sato]

Oh yeah. I mean it's just so egregious because the managers know that I have a great rapport with all my co workers. I'm friends with all of my coworkers and they were like, how can we, you know, make one of our long standing employees who is good at their job, you know, get Fired. So green pants was the reasoning, which.

[Be A Wong]

And just like the idea of your employer being able to control what color of pants you wear is like, is. Is a thing that just on. On a fundamental level, would not be accepted with any other kind of authority. That's. Everyone immediately recognizes. Wait, what the. That's completely unhinged. Why should someone have the ability to tell you, like, no, you have to wear this color pants, or you can't pay your rent and you can't eat?

[Abby Sato]

Oh, yeah. No.

[Alex Pine]

And this is kind of the despotism of management that we were just talking about, isn't it?

[Be A Wong]

Yeah.

[Alex Pine]

And this is the thing that in bargaining sessions for a contract, their side is very interested in maintaining. We've said multiple times that we want a better dress code policy, or at the very least, we don't want to waive our right to be able to wear union memorabilia on the floor. And because he doesn't have any better ideas, their lawyer can only think to shoot that down by talking about how he doesn't, you know, wear his sexuality on his shirt or what. Yeah, yeah. Well, because he was like, why don't you want to be able to waive your right to wear union memorabilia on the floor? And we said, we want to be able to show pride that we're unionized, and we want to be able to have more freedom for expression.

[Abby Sato]

Huh.

[Alex Pine]

Because it's despotic to be able to. To have that level of control over what somebody does.

[Be A Wong]

Yeah.

[Alex Pine]

And then he said, you know, well, I don't wear my sexuality on my shirt. And then realized that it was maybe inappropriate to say that. So then he talked about how he doesn't wear his daughters on his shirt, which. It's a more convoluted point. Yeah, well, because he's proud of his kids, I guess.

[Be A Wong]

What are we doing here? I just. Come on. We gotta have better arguments than this. Like.

[Abby Sato]

No, this guy is really full of bad arguments.

[Alex Pine]

If you. Yeah. If you want to hear bad arguments, you should sit on a bargaining session where their lawyer goes on kind of incomprehensible tirades about how the free market in the aggregate will make sure that the best person will get promoted over time, or that the company will become more profitable or run with the most efficiency as an enterprise, because anything else would be illogical because they wouldn't produce more profit.

[Be A Wong]

But what does that have to do with labor law? There's actually. This is. Okay. Someone I know who's a lawyer once told me that, like, the. This. This is not like a leftist. This is just like. She's just like a corporate lawyer once told me that this, like the actual secret basis that doesn't exist of all corporate law is that there is actually nothing in the law that says a company has to make more money. They even have the right to make money.

[Alex Pine]

Like that's.

[Be A Wong]

That. That doesn't exist. Like that's not a. That's not a thing. Like there's no. You don't actually have a legal right to make more money. Like, you simply don't. That's just. That's not how this works.

[Podcast Announcer]

10 athletes will face the toughest job interview in fitness that will push past physical and mental breaking points. You are the fittest of the fitness. Only one of you will leave here with an IFIT contract for $250,000.

[Alex Pine]

This is when mindset comes in.

[Podcast Announcer]

Someone will be eliminated.

[Commercial Voice]

Pressure is coming down.

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[Be A Wong]

The thing it reminds me of is the anthropologist David Graeber wrote about. I think he might have been quoting someone else, but I can't remember who he was quoting. But he writes about how the relationship between sort of eloquence and violence where the less you have. And so this is in somewhere in the utopia of rules, he writes about how, you know, people who have access to violence to compel people to do something. You don't even have to speak the same language as someone. Right. You can just point a gun at them and, you know they have to obey you because you know they have force.

[Alex Pine]

Right.

[Be A Wong]

But the less ability you have to actually use force to get someone to do something. Right. So if you're a village chief in. There's actually a lot of indigenous tribes that were like this. But, you know, you're in, like, sort of the northeast, and you don't actually have the ability to compel people to do things. So if you want people to go work in the morning, you have to, like, get up and make a giant show of like, oh, I'm getting up to work in the morning. Everyone follow me. Wow, look at how hard I'm working. And you have to, like, convince them through oratory. And, you know, this is like, why all of these people, when Europeans run into them, everyone is like, holy shit. These are like the. These are the best orders I've ever encountered because they have to be right. But the more power you have, the less eloquence you have to have, which I think is like, you know, this is like a Donald Trump thing.

[Alex Pine]

Right.

[Be A Wong]

It's like, yeah, once you've. Once you've reached this point in the process, you know, you can just compel people to do things through violence. You can just like, talk like a fourth grader and it's fine. And it doesn't matter because you just have violence. And that's what this reminds me of. Like, oh, we're the company. Like, we have, like, we're fucking owned by Nestle. We have all this money. We don't have to make compelling arguments. We just have to, like, have power.

[Alex Pine]

Yeah. I mean, pretty much. Personally, it reads to me as like, a way to delay actually talking about.

[Be A Wong]

Yeah.

[Alex Pine]

Any of our demands at the table. Because if you just eat up all the time, then there's no time to talk.

[Be A Wong]

Yeah.

[Alex Pine]

Yeah. But that's also really beautiful to think about from a more abstract sense. Yeah.

[Be A Wong]

Well, also, just companies love fucking with negotiations. It's awful I.

[Alex Pine]

How.

[Be A Wong]

Okay, I should just start asking everyone who does negotiations about this, but on average, how late are your managers to show up to meetings?

[Alex Pine]

I would say that actually both sides are equally late. Well, to the negotiations, at least, just because getting around the city is so difficult.

[Be A Wong]

Oh, oh, so that is like a transit thing, not like a.

[Alex Pine]

No, no. We're not deliberately showing up late, as far as I know.

[Be A Wong]

Yeah, you're just. We just can't get in traffic.

[Alex Pine]

Yeah, but there.

[Be A Wong]

Shouldn't they already just be there?

[Alex Pine]

Yeah, well, because this is something that's actually been a delay tactic for them is they insist that we need to split the cost equally of a bargaining space. What? What? And again, we're independent, so they know that we can't, on a regular basis, commit to that. So if you want to donate to our unions, that way we can pay to sit down in front of these people.

[Be A Wong]

That's completely.

[Alex Pine]

Yeah.

[Be A Wong]

Having to have the union pave. I've never heard of that before. That's completely deranged. That's what.

[Alex Pine]

And we. We've even waived our right to meet in a neutral space. So we've asked if they would be willing to meet in the office of their legal representation or if they'd be willing to meet in the office of our legal representation. And they've said no to both because supposedly, despite being the second largest union avoidance firm in the world, they've said that their office doesn't have adequate space to hold us. But then rental space in the city is so fucking expensive that there's no feasible way to rent a space for eight hours for two days, you know, once a month. Yeah. Which has meant that we've ended up in some strange places. So college, conference rooms, city hall. We work. What?

[Be A Wong]

Yeah, we.

[Alex Pine]

I know.

[Be A Wong]

This is the most deeply unserious company I have ever encountered.

[Alex Pine]

Like, there's all kinds of things like that that they've employed in the past year to attempt us making significant progress with negotiating. And it wasn't until November this year that they finally gave us a counter on economics after we told them we would file a bad faith bargaining charge if they didn't. Hell yeah. Do you want to guess what their counter. So for reference, our unions requesting $30 an hour for baristas, because that's a living wage according to the MIT living wage calculator. Do you want to guess what Blue Bottle said they would give us? 18. No. Well, actually, strangely, yes. They said right now we make 18 an hour, but they said they'll keep it the same and they want to retain the rate to change it whenever they want. They're. They're making a floor. They're. They're committing to a floor that they. I then tried to ask if they've ever in their history decreased wages. And they're like, no, I don't see why we would ever do that. And I'm like, oh, so then this.

[Be A Wong]

Floor is actually their baseline for negotiations. Is our starting position is nothing.

[Alex Pine]

Yeah. And this is a year after negotiating with them so far.

[Be A Wong]

Yeah.

[Alex Pine]

It's like, okay.

[Be A Wong]

Like, I mean at that point it's like, yeah, I don't know. Like, fuck it. Our, our starting position is we should have your house. Like, like, this is like, this is like equally rude. Like, come on. Like, you having their house is a more reasonable demand than our basic negotiating position is nothing. Like, what are we doing here?

[Alex Pine]

No idea. Just.

[Be A Wong]

God. Yeah, I mean it. Insert obligatory line here about how after you win an election, the most common way for union to fail is bargaining. The first contract. And companies know this, so they will just do bullshit for several years to attempt to not have you get a contract. It sucks. Yeah, yeah, fuck em.

[Abby Sato]

It's their whole strategy. I mean the whole like union avoidance of it all is they're just trying to like wait us out and then fire people who are involved and just like in their words, like, let turnover do its natural work. But it's like, isn't this specialty coffee? Don't you want people who are good at their jobs? I've watched some of my new coworkers pull a shot that I wouldn't feed to a dog.

[Alex Pine]

Like, I've seen her manager do the same.

[Abby Sato]

Oh, absolutely.

[Be A Wong]

Why? Look, you can't expect managers to know how to do things. That's not their job.

[Abby Sato]

My manager, let me tell you, I used to have to open with her like three times a week. And she has this very beautiful habit of as she's dialing espresso. And also she does this while she's counting cash. She will have her phone open on TikTok and then scroll through. I have this one horrific memory. It was 6am and she was going through an entire TikTok story time series for 45 minutes and the whole story time was going on. And every time it was an introduction of like, I don't even remember what it was about. I think it was like she was like, oh, this is my story of being like a mob boss's wife. And I had to listen to that for 45 minutes while opening.

[Be A Wong]

Yeah, I think you should legally be allowed to have her car.

[Abby Sato]

I think I should have probably.

[Be A Wong]

Yeah, that too. Yes. Our starting demand is the more you. Every time you piss us off, we get another one of your houses.

[Abby Sato]

For every TikTok watched on the clock. That's a dollar towards me per hour.

[Be A Wong]

Yeah, like what are we doing here?

[Alex Pine]

They're owned by Nestle, but I don't think that there's enough money in the world that would be able to give you that. Abby, I'm so sorry.

[Abby Sato]

No, I don't think I'll ever receive fair compensation.

[Alex Pine]

You'd really piss off the, the modern monetary theory people because they'd be like, no, even we can't account for this.

[Abby Sato]

No one can account for the emotional damage.

[Be A Wong]

We ran out of data in our Federal Reserve database. Oh God.

[Alex Pine]

To recap. So in the past year we've done multiple walkouts, unionized four locations in the East Bay area. And then after Abby was fired for bullshit reasons, along with two other organizers, we went on a four day strike which included both cities. And we've done this entirely as an independent union against a company that is owned by Nestle. Yeah. And interestingly, just because I'd be remiss to not mention this, the day that we ended our strike there was a article published in Reuters which was the most vibe based reporting that I've ever seen where it said Nestle explores sale of blue bottle coffee. Sources say where there's three unnamed sources. Incredible that all say that Nestle is considering or looking into selling blue bottle coffee. But interestingly says here quote, once were said Nestle could decide to sell the cafes but retain the brand's intellectual property to continue selling the products. End quote.

[Be A Wong]

What are we doing here? This is like.

[Abby Sato]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alex Pine]

I mean it's interesting as a tell because personally I think it's just a scare tactic.

[Be A Wong]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alex Pine]

Like I could consider walking into traffic, I could be looking into my options for how fast a car would hit me. But that doesn't mean anything.

[Be A Wong]

Union considering expropriating the mansion Nestle CEO. It's like we're an exploratory committee. Sources say.

[Alex Pine]

Yeah, I don't think they'd publish that in Reuters, but it's interesting that they would even say that because like the entire value that Blue Bottle offers Nestle is to be able to put the brand onto, you know, Nespresso pods or whatever. And also just very weird timing with the strike ending the same day it comes out.

[Be A Wong]

Yep, yep, yep.

[Abby Sato]

They are so scared.

[Be A Wong]

They really are.

[Abby Sato]

They are scared shitless. And they don't know what to do about it. And they're breaking glass left and right trying to maintain power. But it's like Alex said earlier, like the solidarity that we have between our co workers, it just cannot be broken by management. And even after they fired me and two of our other organizers, people still went out on the picket line. We kept five out of the six cafes closed in Boston and the only reason one of them could stay open is because all of the managers banded together to keep the Prudential center open.

[Be A Wong]

I got a worst coffee ever.

[Abby Sato]

I don't think a single latte went out correctly that day. But hey, you know, at least, at least they can still collect their $9 per latte.

[Be A Wong]

So if, if you got food poisoning in the deeds of the strike for going to this, getting served manager coffee.

[Abby Sato]

If you had a bad experience during the strike at the Prudential center, just know that that was not union made coffee and we would never do that to you.

[Podcast Announcer]

10 athletes will face the toughest job interview in fitness that will push past physical and mental breaking points. You are the fittest of the fit. Only one of you will leave here with an IFIT contract worth $250,000.

[Alex Pine]

This is where mindset comes in.

[Podcast Announcer]

Someone will be eliminated.

[Commercial Voice]

Pressure is coming down.

Trainer Games on Prime Video January 8th watch the trailer on trainer games.com it's.

The most wonderful time of the year and Valpak is here to make it even better this month as you see Sip through holiday mail. Don't miss the blue Valpak envelope. From dining to holiday shopping, there's a slate full of savings in your mailbox, plus a chance to instantly win $100. That's right, you can find 100 Christmas cash inside. Want to save even more money on what you love? Go to valpak.com for local coupons and offers. It pays to open Valpak. No purchase necessary for instant win. Void we're prohibited. Prices are randomly inserted. See specially marked Valpak envelopes for the details.

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[Be A Wong]

I think it's really beautiful that. Yeah, y' all just kept doing this even though they're just doing this bullshit constantly. And it's like, no, we're just gonna keep fighting them and they're going to get so scared that they're leaking to the press that we're thinking about. But selling the thing like it just.

[Alex Pine]

We're a lot further along than I thought we would ever get. Yeah, I thought they were going to fire us the day after we did the first walkout last year. Which is, you know, I thought all the more reason to try then. Yeah, but really it's not tough for people that we work with to realize that they're getting a bad deal and that the reason that the job sucks is because they don't get paid enough to live in the city. Like, I think most baristas at Blue Bottle see something like 60% of their income going towards rent because.

[Abby Sato]

Jesus.

[Alex Pine]

Yeah, we did a survey on this. Let me double check to make sure that I have the facts right. But yeah, this, this is from, you know, March, so it's a little bit old data. We'll do another survey soon. But most Blue Bottle baristas are rent burdened, spending more than 30% of their income on rent. The median rent paid by Blue bottle employees being $1,045, which is the equivalent of 150 New Orleans style iced coffees that it's one of the best selling drinks they have. Christ. Yeah, No, I know. For 150nolas, you too can pay the median rent by a. Paid by a barista. Oh my God. And then on average it's, sorry, 46% of their income going towards rent with roughly a third of baristas paying over 60%.

[Be A Wong]

Oh my God.

[Alex Pine]

When we told all these facts to their lawyer at a bargaining session and he just said that maybe the reason that we were all struggling to make ends meet was because we were paying for too many streaming services. Yeah, I know. Like it's an entirely. He knows it's bullshit.

[Be A Wong]

Did they just get like a right Wing shit poster to be their lawyer. Like, is this just like, is this like fucking, like, is this is like the fail sudden clone of Rudy Giuliani? Like this face going to start melting off? What are we doing here? Like, come on.

[Alex Pine]

I wish I could tell you. I don't know what their strategy with saying obviously false things is, but they love to do it.

[Be A Wong]

It's so great, you know? Okay, fuck it. I'm going to. I'm going to read this quote. I was going to use this for a different episode and I did it.

[Alex Pine]

So.

[Be A Wong]

All right, fuck it. This is. I'm going to read this line from Dan Olson's documentary In Search of Flat Earth, which is like probably the best thing that's ever been done about flat earth. Because they believe that power belongs to those with the greatest will to take it. And what greater sign of will than the ability to overwrite the truth? Their will is a hammer they are using to beat reality into a shape of their choosing. A simple world where reality is exactly what it looks like through their eyes. Devoid of complexity, devoid of change. Where they are right and their enemies are silent. They are trying to build a flat earth. That's just this. They're just like, no, you. We can say whatever the we want because we take the weight. Because this is the expression of just power. And even though we know that we're lying and you know that you're lying is.

[Alex Pine]

I mean, if you want to talk about expression of power, you should read their management's rights clause. Sorry, they're so called management's rights clause. Oh, God, let me see if I can pull that up. So just to clarify. So management's rights is a clause that can be found in some union contracts because of collaborationists within unions in the 50s deciding that they actually didn't want to go for complete worker control of the means of production. They just wanted to collaborate with management in order to get a better deal for wages. I'm not going to comment on the history of that, but that's why they feel like they can include this in negotiations. Right now we haven't agreed to any management's rights, but quote is agreed that the management of the company's business and the direction of its working forces are vested exclusively in the company and that the company retains all rights that it had before the execution of this agreement unless a rate is clearly contracted away in this agreement by language that is specific and unambiguous. These retained company rights include, but are not limited to the following. The right to direct and supervise the work of its employees. The right to hire, promote, demote, transfer, and to discipline or discharge employees. The right to create or eliminate jobs and to determine wage rates for newly created or materially modified jobs. The right to determine training requirements and provide training to employees. The right to uniform and attire standards. The right to plan, direct and control operations. The right to determine products to be sold, services and products to be procured, used and or distributed. The right to determine the type and quantity of machines, equipment, location of cafes. The right to determine the amount and quality of work needed. The right to determine schedules of CAFE operations. The right to determine the number of employees needed. The right to determine the work schedule of employees. The right to lay off employees or relieve employees from work because of lack of work. The right to discontinue or introduce new or improved methods, operating practices and cafes. The right to change the content of jobs and the qualification for such jobs. And the right to establish, modify and enforce work rules of conduct or policies and discipline employees who violate such rules or policies. The right to establish, modify. Oh, Jesus Christ, I forgot to enforce.

[Abby Sato]

I haven't read this in a while and I forgot how bad it is.

[Be A Wong]

Wow.

[Alex Pine]

Because basically what they're saying is we want to be able to control everything that you do. And this is our. They never say where they believe this right comes from. They all make, like, an argument for naturalism where, like, we are vested by the universal power of management to be able to do this. They don't make any historical argument for it where, oh, this is, you know, because of the contracts that have been negotiated since the 50s, something that's fairly standard. And we think that we have the right to. Because of, like, long standing precedent. They just think that they should be able to control fucking everything.

[Be A Wong]

Yeah.

[Alex Pine]

Which is not unsurprising for Nestle.

[Be A Wong]

Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think there's. There's a lot of very, very abstract theoretical debate you run into. If you're like, instead of doing shit, you're like, in theory circles about, like, oh, is like, is capital its own autonomous entity or is it like a thing that's like, costly in, like, relation to, like, the actions of workers? And it's like, okay, read something like this. And it's like, oh, no. They are so worried that they're going to have to react to what their workers are doing that they. And they are already doing this.

[Alex Pine]

Right.

[Be A Wong]

Like, this is, you know. You mean this is. This goes back to the whole, like, we're leaking to the media, we're going to sell the company Thing that they're doing where it's like, no, actually, like, these people are so not like easily, but if you are organized at all, it becomes so clear to them that they actually. Oh, no, wait, hold on. They're responding to us. Like, they're not just purely the only thing that gets to like, drive history forward and decide literally everything about your life. The moment you, like, try to claw it away from them, they see how fragile it is and they're like, no, no, no, actually, we gotta spell out the fact that we get a fucking dress you in whatever clothes we want you to wear. And it's like, okay, this is like a thing that only exists if you do not resist them at all. But like, no, if you, if you fucking fight them, they have to fucking write all this shit down that they think they've always been able to do, and it's ridiculous.

[Abby Sato]

And to hear it all in a bullet form, like in literally just a bullet list, like every single aspect of my life and everything that I've ever loved or thought was important to me in a list of what they think they can control is just crazy. And then we have to go back and say, okay, well, do you see how off base you are?

[Be A Wong]

Yeah.

[Abby Sato]

And then they make us sound like the crazy ones for wanting to live a good life and be able to like, you know, make ends meet.

[Alex Pine]

Pay less than 60% of our income towards rent.

[Abby Sato]

Yeah, yeah, take a vacation maybe.

[Alex Pine]

Yeah. One other thing that I think is a great point about how it's actually capital responding to the organization of baristas, people, workers, whatever, is they haven't done it recently, but last summer they sent a very long winded and angry email about all the bargaining updates and press that the union was getting.

[Abby Sato]

They're so mad at me that I'm good at my job.

[Alex Pine]

And. And then this past summer, after we did two walkouts in fairly quick succession in response to two different things, they attempted to accuse us of an intermittent striking just because they were so scared they didn't know what else to do. To try and be like, you didn't own me. I'm not mad. Please don't put in the news that I'm mad. Their lawyer even said in a bargaining session later on that he had a less than 75% chance of ever winning that argument at the board.

[Be A Wong]

Oh, my God.

[Alex Pine]

But they were just so mad that we walked out twice in May that they tried to claim that it was unprotected, but that they were being benevolent by not disciplining anyone for It.

[Be A Wong]

God.

[Alex Pine]

And they haven't really given much of a response to our multi day strike yet, aside from their lawyer emailing us earlier this week to ask us for our entire legal justification for why the terminations of Abby, Nora and Ashley were illegal. And what legal justification do we have to say that they're negotiating a contract in bad faith, which is like the nlra.

[Be A Wong]

Yeah, yeah. Like, what are we doing here? Oh, God. Yeah. So what's coming up next for y'? All? What's the next stage?

[Alex Pine]

If you or anybody that you know either works at a Blue Bottle or wants to apply to A Blue Bottle to help organize it, please reach out to us by [e-mail] if you want to support our independent unionism and help us remain independent and be able to go on multiple day strikes, which clearly piss off our Nestle overlords, you can donate to us at tinyurl.com forward/bbiustrike unless or until we have a contract or they reinstate Abby, Nora, Ashley and fingers crossed, hopefully not myself. We're calling on a boycott of all Blue Bottle coffee products. Hell yeah. I have no idea what the overlap between it could happen here, listeners and.

[Be A Wong]

Blue Bottle customers is. You'd be surprised. But no, I'm sure there's a lot of them out there.

[Alex Pine]

I don't know.

[Be A Wong]

Look, judging by the shit I have heard from our listeners, I love you all. Some of you are on some wild shit and some of you are not the people you would expect to be. So.

[Alex Pine]

Yeah, so don't buy Blue Bottle. If some of the things that we've said about the bargaining sessions sounds too absurd to be true to you, then you can go to bluebottle union.org and under the tab for baristas, you can read every bargaining update where we publish all of the proposals that the company has given us so far. You can read the shit that they make us read in the bargaining sessions. Yeah, so. So that's what's next. In like the next month or so. There's other things that we're working on that we can't talk about yet. Hell yeah. Hell yeah.

[Be A Wong]

Love this.

[Alex Pine]

Yeah.

[Be A Wong]

I'm trying so hard not to just read half the ender speech. Authority is the mask of fear. Tyranny is brittle.

[Abby Sato]

If there ever were a time to read it, there's no time like the present.

[Be A Wong]

You know what? Fuck it. We're just. We're doing it. We're doing it. The imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks. It leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear. Remember that. And know this. The day will come when all these skirmishes and battles, these moments of defiance, will have flooded the banks of the Empire's authority. And then there will be one too many. One single thing will break the siege. Remember this. Try. And that's my message to you all. You can fight your own bosses too. And you can beat them. And you can watch them running around in terror like fucking chickens with their head cut off. And you can get shit from them that they never would have wanted to give you in the first place.

[Alex Pine]

It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media.

[Abby Sato]

Visit our website coolzonemedia.com or check us.

[Alex Pine]

Out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for It Could Happen here, listed directly in Episode Descriptions.

[Abby Sato]

Thanks for listening.

[Podcast Announcer]

10 athletes will face the toughest job interview in fitness that will push past physical and mental breaking points. You are the fittest of the fit. Only one of you will leave here with an IFIT contract for $250,000.

[Alex Pine]

This is where mindset comes in.

[Podcast Announcer]

Someone will be eliminated.

[Commercial Voice]

Pressure is coming down.

Trainer Games on Prime Video January 8th. Watch the trailer on trainergames.com your ticket.

To big Savings is that big blue envelope in your mailbox.

[Be A Wong]

Valpak.

[Commercial Voice]

It's brimming with deals from big name brands and your favorite local spot spots, dining services, stuff you're already buying, all for less. And you could score $100 or other instant prizes just for opening it. Or save even faster with mobile coupons you can use right [e-mail] Valpak there's definitely something in it for you.

The world's best ski and snowboard athletes are chasing medals. Now you can follow their every move. Join Insider, the official US Ski and snowboard fan loyalty program, and get premium viewing at World cup ski events, exclusive athlete meetups, discounts from brands you love, and a custom welcome gift mailed direct to your doorstep this winter. Show your support as they race for the podium. Head to insider.usski and snowboard.org and join today.

Bring incredible sound into every corner of your home this holiday with the new Wimsound smart speaker. Get high resolution audio with a 1.8-inch touchscreen, smart control and modern design in one powerful speaker for just $299. From Quiet Mornings to lively holiday gatherings, Windsound makes every moment sound better and feel better too. Get the gift of the season for the music enthusiast in your life or for yourself? Whim Sound Beautifully designed, effortlessly connected. Shop now at Amazon and search Whim sound. That's W I I m s o u n d this is an I heart podcast.

[Abby Sato]

Guaranteed human.